Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 2 November 2015 at 15:08, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> Also, that example includes spindle orient. You might want to consider
>> a spindle orient commands rather than a spindle start command.
>
> I've no clue how a velocity servo could do that neatly because of the
> inevitable variations in bearing friction.

PID.


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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 2 November 2015 at 13:16,   wrote:

> What does the carousel.0.state number define, what does it mean?

It shows where the system is in the alignment sequence. It will only
really make sense looking at the code:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/components/carousel.comp;h=c38343c24b9b21e743e1e7dd7a4d57e7cfec74be;hb=HEAD#l150
Starting at line 150.

The comment on each state says what it is doing in that state, and
then it moves from one state to another on the basis of comparison in
that state.

Hint, in C read "!" as "not"

case 0: // waiting at start
case 1: // choose direction
case 2: // moving
case 3: //waiting for enable to go false
case 10: // start of homing
case 11: // waiting for index & pulse

> Also, after the homing sequence does the carousel.0.pocket-number need
> to be reset to 0, and reset after every completed toolchange?

No, you can leave it as it is, and if you set enable with it already
in the right position the compoinent will fall through the states
without setting any outputs other than "ready"

>  it is sitting on pocket 1, with the following conditions
> of all pins,

It is waiting for the "enable" pin to go false. The pin needs to go
from 0 to 1 to start a new move. If you connect it to
iocontrol.0.tool-change then that should happen automatically.


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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 November 2015 05:12:32 andy pugh wrote:

> On 2 November 2015 at 02:26, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Found it!  That is a quite simplified version that assumes some
> > unseen mechanism to run the drawbar, and a straight out the side of
> > the wheel exit strategy.
>
> Yes, that is how the demo is set up, but the actual sequence is set by
> a G-code subroutine, so is reasonably easy to change.
>
> All the carousel module does is interpret carousel position feeback
> and  issue motor movement commands for a tool carousel. Everything
> else is handled elsewhere. In the examples it is by G-code, but it
> would interface with Ladder just as easily.
>
> As you need to move the head up and down and issue spindle speed
> commands I think that you will find G-code more convenient, moving the
> head from ladder is more difficult.
>
> Also, that example includes spindle orient. You might want to consider
> a spindle orient commands rather than a spindle start command.

I've no clue how a velocity servo could do that neatly because of the 
inevitable variations in bearing friction.  This is the cause of some 
spindle heating in this mill, and I've played with the tension a wee 
bit, but haven't explored their replacement with higher quality 
bearings. I am well aware that this thing is NOT a Hardinge.

> The docs say that M19 is limited to R-values of 0-360 but you can
> force movement in one direction or the other. I think that a string of
> 180 degree moves could be used to unscrew the drawbar by a requested
> amount. It also has a built-in timeout in case things stick.

Precluding that is one of the reasons for the head gearshift.  In low 
gear, I don't think stickage would ever be a problem.  The torque is 
there, all I have to do is give it some "good gulf".  Referring to Gulf 
Oil's best refinery output.  "Tipping the can a little higher" etc etc.
Jon's pwm-servo amp can do 20 amps at 160 volts, this motor originally 
could do 2250 revs on the OEM traic (or scr) controller, which for some 
reason unk to me was restricted to about 1100 revs in reverse.  I have 
about 107 volts of DC available, at 11 amps CCS, but can do 40 till the 
wall breaker trips.  Jon's servo has a 16 amp current setting limit, so 
I can make it do things with authority.  It can do about 2850 revs on 
this controller, but only for 3 minutes or so before an internal thermal 
limit shuts it down for a 1 minute (approximately) cooldown.  However, 
leaving it at 2750 for half an hour produces only a 10F thermal rise 
looking at the motor.  In that same half hour, the bottom of the spindle 
will be close to 200F!  Piss poor bearings IMNSHO.

But, the size of a 10 pocket wheel precludes making it on this machine, 
not enough Y travel, unless I can A: Borrow a 6 to 8" rotary table, or 
B: figure out how to cut off the back 4 pockets, making a 6 pocket wheel 
(more than enough said stupid)  G-Code wise that is not impossible, and 
is likely the path I will follow here since the only rotary table I have 
is both a piece of junk I have motorized, and a 4" whose braking clamps 
are a brass thumbscrew and in-capable of holding it against the cutting 
forces involved here, it WILL move to its backlash limits.  That was 
nearly a show stopper when I made those sprockets for the bandsaw fence 
lashup a couple years ago with your code help. That backlash made the 
tooth too wide, and I had to file them about 3 thou wider before they 
would enter a piece of #25 chain.  Still a little sticky, but it works, 
which was the point of that project.  Not your fault.  If I were to 
remake them again, I'd program in backlash takeup moves at the peaks and 
gully's of the tooth.

I do need to get a bigger, more precise table and motorize it, but $500+ 
(plus another sky hook in the ceiling for a rope hoist to handle it 
with, I use a deer hoist, 3 sheeves wide, small nylon rope for that sort 
of thing) to get that going isn't $omething I want to $pend ATM.

It will happen eventually unless I fall over first though.

So a truncated wheel, carrying 5 tools seems like the best way fwd right 
now. Raw material may dictate that as I have either the whole deck panel 
from an Ampex VR1200, ( liberally drilled here and there for hole to 
mount stuff when it really was a VR-1200) or better yet, a few pieces of 
its 4" wide stiffening skirt thats not cut up yet.  If I put the axle 
hole on the edge & make a cap to clamp it to the rotating shaft with, 
the rest of it should be wide enough for a 5 pocket half wheel.

That, if I can whack away the code, I can get going yet today on the 
small mill as it can do about 5" of Y motion. That way I won't have to 
move the jig on the 704's table.

Needs more coffee though, I'm not quite up to speed for the day yet.

So attack the code next. I can see where arcbuddy.py is going to get a 
workout. :)

> The 
> advantage would be that you could ensure that the drabar thread
> remained engaged.
>
> My milling 

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 2 November 2015 at 17:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Suggested changes to make position work?

Pretty picture here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrient

You might well be able to use spindle.hal from that vmc_toolchange
config directly (which is a HAL implementation of that logic) , except
that it looks under [SPINDLE] rather than [SPINDLE_9] I think.

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[Emc-users] Linux Mint

[John Thornton]

I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any 
instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r 
and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be 
the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in 
XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.

I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel 
is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 November 2015 10:28:13 andy pugh wrote:

> On 2 November 2015 at 15:08, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> Also, that example includes spindle orient. You might want to
> >> consider a spindle orient commands rather than a spindle start
> >> command.
> >
> > I've no clue how a velocity servo could do that neatly because of
> > the inevitable variations in bearing friction.
>
> PID.

Already in there, setup for velocity. That, its quite stiff at doing.
[SPINDLE_9]
P = 2.0
I = 0.03
D = 0.00
FF0 = 1.00
FF1 = 0.020
FF2 = 0.00
BIAS = 0.00
FBIAS = 0.60
RBIAS = -0.60
ACCELL = 6.7
LIMIT_S_ACCEL = 750
DEADBAND = 0.00
ENCODER_SCALE = 268.0
PWMGEN_S_SCALE =46.00
MAXACCEL = 1500
PWMGEN_S_FREQ = 3
NEAR_TOL = 5
NEAR_SCALE = 1.1
ENCODER_SAMPLE = 50

Suggested changes to make position work?

The accuracy, at that encoder scale is no better than a couple degrees.  
It would have to interpolate, and hunt, or use a deadband to stop the 
hunting.

My thinking has been one of working around that limit since I do not 
intend to ever drop the 3/4" R8 as long as I have TTS adapters left, 
unless I have to disable the tool changer and do a special setup by 
hand.  Working around that limit also gives turning room so there is 
some inertial energy in the spindle when the drawbar wrench hits its 
stop pin. That should help to loosen or tighten the drawbar.

Playing with the code, using that 4" as a limit, I can put 6 pockets in 
it, and won't have to make the shaft clamp cap, there's room for the 
hole and a setscrew or 2 to fix it to the 1/2" shaft.

Got that worked out, and about to be started on the toy mill.

News at 11.

Thanks Andy.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 2 November 2015 at 02:26, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Found it!  That is a quite simplified version that assumes some unseen
> mechanism to run the drawbar, and a straight out the side of the wheel
> exit strategy.

Yes, that is how the demo is set up, but the actual sequence is set by
a G-code subroutine, so is reasonably easy to change.

All the carousel module does is interpret carousel position feeback
and  issue motor movement commands for a tool carousel. Everything
else is handled elsewhere. In the examples it is by G-code, but it
would interface with Ladder just as easily.

As you need to move the head up and down and issue spindle speed
commands I think that you will find G-code more convenient, moving the
head from ladder is more difficult.

Also, that example includes spindle orient. You might want to consider
a spindle orient commands rather than a spindle start command.
The docs say that M19 is limited to R-values of 0-360 but you can
force movement in one direction or the other. I think that a string of
180 degree moves could be used to unscrew the drawbar by a requested
amount. It also has a built-in timeout in case things stick. The
advantage would be that you could ensure that the drabar thread
remained engaged.

My milling machine has a sturdy cast cap over a clllar the drawbar on
the horizontal spindle. If you unscrew far enough it actively ejects
the taper.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[Moses McKnight]

What kind of realtime kernel do you want?  I have a couple of PREEMPT-RT 
kernels 
built, but have not worked with RTAI kernels for it.

On 11/02/2015 02:26 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any
> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r
> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be
> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in
> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
>
> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel
> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> JT
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[andy pugh]

On 2 November 2015 at 20:26, John Thornton  wrote:
> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface,

If it is just the Interface, why not Install Mate on a LinuxCNC Wheezy
liveCD install?
http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[Chris Morley]

> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> From: j...@gnipsel.com
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:26:43 -0600
> Subject: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
> 
> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any 
> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r 
> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be 
> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in 
> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
> 
> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel 
> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> JT
> 

I would be interested in this too.
I use RTAI

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 November 2015 13:13:34 andy pugh wrote:

> On 2 November 2015 at 17:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Suggested changes to make position work?
>
> Pretty picture here:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrient
>
> You might well be able to use spindle.hal from that vmc_toolchange
> config directly (which is a HAL implementation of that logic)
In which case it IS editable to fix the below comment.  But would there 
be name clashes between the two setups?  Perhaps a separate [SPINDLE] 
grouping in the .ini might be on purpose...

> , except 
> that it looks under [SPINDLE] rather than [SPINDLE_9] I think.

Msg marked for when I am ready to tackle that.

Thank you very much, Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[rick]

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component
> From: andy pugh 
> Date: Fri, October 30, 2015 1:22 pm
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 October 2015 at 16:10, Rick Lair  wrote:
> > I don't have the dev package installed, I just downloaded it, to get to
> > the remap stuff.
> 
> There is scope for confusion here. linuxcnc-dev is a package that can
> be downloaded from the package manager, either through the synaptic
> gui or with
> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
> 

I am getting an error trying this ^^,

Here is the error,

greenmill@greenmill:~$ sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
[sudo] password for greenmill: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
Package linuxcnc-dev is not available, but is referred to by another
package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'linuxcnc-dev' has no installation candidate
greenmill@greenmill:~$ 


Is this because of running uspace?



Rick 




> However, if you download the LinuxCNC source code, that generally ends
> up on a folder also called linuxcnc-dev. But you can have either one
> without the other.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[Todd Zuercher]

I have already installed the Mate desktop on to a stock Wheezy Linuxcnc 
install.  I'm probably going to do this with most of my new installs from now 
on.  It was a relatively painless installation.
https://wiki.debian.org/Mate

The same can also be done with Cinnamon.

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Morley" 
To: "EMC" 
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 6:34:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint



> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> From: j...@gnipsel.com
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:26:43 -0600
> Subject: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
> 
> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any 
> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r 
> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be 
> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in 
> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
> 
> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel 
> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> JT
> 

I would be interested in this too.
I use RTAI

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[Allen]

Just curious folks, why would you use these other Desktops instead of 
the one in Wheezy?
(Just in case I'm missing something).

Thanks

On 11/2/2015 6:15 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I have already installed the Mate desktop on to a stock Wheezy Linuxcnc 
> install.  I'm probably going to do this with most of my new installs from now 
> on.  It was a relatively painless installation.
> https://wiki.debian.org/Mate
>
> The same can also be done with Cinnamon.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Morley" 
> To: "EMC" 
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 6:34:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
>
>
>
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> From: j...@gnipsel.com
>> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:26:43 -0600
>> Subject: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
>>
>> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any
>> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r
>> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be
>> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in
>> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
>>
>> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel
>> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>> JT
>>
> I would be interested in this too.
> I use RTAI
>
> Chris M
>   
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