Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[John Kasunich]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015, at 09:41 AM, Todd  Zuercher wrote:
> I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and could 
> be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't think 
> to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 208 3ph). 
> 
> So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> 208 3ph? 
> 
> If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the 
> original.) 
> 

If you keep the same voltage-to-frequency ratio and maximum current the motor 
will be happy.
But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed for 
380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only deliver 
208V, then you will be
limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It will 
still deliver rated torque
at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower - only 
about 3.8kW.

You can run it at a lower voltage-to-frequency ratio, but you won't get the 
same torque.  For example
you could run it at 208V and 240Hz.  You would get a no-load speed of 
14,400RPM, but the torque-
per-amp will be lower - you'll still only get 3.8kW.


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Bruce Layne]

I last tried Debian when picking a distro when switching to Linux a very 
long time ago.  I've been using Ubuntu on my CNC tools and my desktop 
for the last few years and have converted some friends and family to 
Ubuntu... because I don't do Windows.  I tried Debian again recently 
when it was part of the installation ISO for the latest version of 
LinuxCNC.  I liked it better than Ubuntu, which seems a bit too Mac-like 
for my tastes.  I haven't used Debian on the desktop yet and haven't 
really used it much with LinuxCNC either, so I can't give it my 
endorsement, but I am very inclined to switch my desktop to Debian when 
I get a new PC.

I should probably stick to the devil I know.  There are all of the 
hidden problems when switching to a new distro.  For example, printing 
US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using 
their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who 
knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.

At this point, I guess I'm basically adopting whatever distro LinuxCNC 
uses in the ISO for my desktop as well.  So far, from the little I've 
seen of it, I like the clean look of Debian, and it works the way my 
brain wants it to work.  Ubuntu seemed too clever for its own good 
sometimes, like the Mac, with things hidden where they are intuitive to 
everyone but me.  User interfaces are very subjective.  YMMV.



On 11/03/2015 06:18 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> My search is for one that is less annoying than any that I have tried in
> Debian


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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[John Thornton]

I actually have no clue what real time kernel I want or what the 
difference is between any of them. I would be using a 5i25 7ix6 combo.

Thanks
JT

On 11/2/2015 4:43 PM, Moses McKnight wrote:
> What kind of realtime kernel do you want?  I have a couple of PREEMPT-RT 
> kernels
> built, but have not worked with RTAI kernels for it.
>
> On 11/02/2015 02:26 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any
>> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r
>> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be
>> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in
>> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
>>
>> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel
>> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>> JT
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[John Thornton]

I have Mate on both my Wheezy computers now and it's ok but still a very 
annoying interface. I suspect it is the Debian under the hood or just a 
lack of time spent on Mate to make it at least as good as Ubuntu 6.06 
and 8.04 was.

JT

On 11/2/2015 4:53 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 2 November 2015 at 20:26, John Thornton  wrote:
>> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface,
> If it is just the Interface, why not Install Mate on a LinuxCNC Wheezy
> liveCD install?
> http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

My search is for one that is less annoying than any that I have tried in 
Debian so far which includes X, Xfce and Mate. I feel the underlying 
Debian is part of the annoying behavior with the UI. It's really just 
plain stupid things like the login prompt and most times you start the 
synaptic package manager the focus does not go to the password field so 
you have grab your mouse and click on it to get focus. This kind of 
stuff worked as it should in Ubuntu 6.06 so why go backwards I have no 
clue. It seems to me that a bunch of things were changed and not 
completed in the UI's for Debian.

JT

On 11/2/2015 9:37 PM, Allen wrote:
> Just curious folks, why would you use these other Desktops instead of
> the one in Wheezy?
> (Just in case I'm missing something).
>
> Thanks
>
> On 11/2/2015 6:15 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
>> I have already installed the Mate desktop on to a stock Wheezy Linuxcnc 
>> install.  I'm probably going to do this with most of my new installs from 
>> now on.  It was a relatively painless installation.
>> https://wiki.debian.org/Mate
>>
>> The same can also be done with Cinnamon.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Chris Morley" 
>> To: "EMC" 
>> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 6:34:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
>>
>>
>>
>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> From: j...@gnipsel.com
>>> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:26:43 -0600
>>> Subject: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
>>>
>>> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any
>>> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r
>>> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be
>>> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in
>>> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
>>>
>>> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel
>>> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> JT
>>>
>> I would be interested in this too.
>> I use RTAI
>>
>> Chris M
>>  
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[Karlsson & Wang]

> I actually have no clue what real time kernel I want or what the 
> difference is between any of them. I would be using a 5i25 7ix6 combo.
> 
> Thanks
> JT

I think linuxcnc print something about if real time posix is used then 
starting. If you have one installed try it and see if it seems good enough.

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

Funny you should mention that, I can't print to my network printers from 
either Debian Wheezy computer but have no problem printing from Ubuntu 
computers. Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as 
I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian 
computers. They are just a total PITA to try and use.

Having said all that I didn't like Ubuntu 12.4 at all, just too much 
like a stupid notebook with everything hidden that you might use if you 
know more than squat about a computer.

JT

On 11/3/2015 7:12 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> For example, printing


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[Emc-users] Profibus (Request Diagnostics)

[Karlsson & Wang]

I send yesterday to developer list but message seems to have disappeared so I 
here on user list insted. I am trying to get a profibus IO module up and 
running. Plan is to add to Linuxcnc and there plenty of these kind of devices 
out there so it will almost certainly be useful.

Do anyone happen to have the raw message format from a trace or similar for 
request diagnostic?

Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Rick Lair]

John, I strongly second all of that, Royal PITA.

I believe I have finally gotten the network sharing aspect handled, but 
the printing is shot. If I need to print something off of the mill I am 
finishing up, that is running Debian wheezy, I have to save whatever it 
is to my thumb drive, and go in the office, open it up on my Ubuntu 
machine, then print it.


Rick

On 11/3/2015 10:19 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Funny you should mention that, I can't print to my network printers from
> either Debian Wheezy computer but have no problem printing from Ubuntu
> computers. Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as
> I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian
> computers. They are just a total PITA to try and use.
>
> Having said all that I didn't like Ubuntu 12.4 at all, just too much
> like a stupid notebook with everything hidden that you might use if you
> know more than squat about a computer.
>
> JT
>
> On 11/3/2015 7:12 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> For example, printing
>
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Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[andy pugh]

On 3 November 2015 at 15:19, John Thornton  wrote:
> Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as
> I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian
> computers.

You nay need to install Samba, it isn't there by default. I don't know
if Avahi is or not.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Karlsson & Wang]

It depends. For an asynchronous motor lower voltage will mean lower available 
torque although it is technically possible to get full torque up to there 208 
volt is needed for full power but only if the inverter deliver 208 volt at this 
point. For a synchronous permanent magnet motor voltage is needed to get the 
rpm up although it may be possible to weaken the magnetic field to get rpm up.

Nicklas Karlsson



On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:41:37 -0500 (EST)
"Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:

> I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and could 
> be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't think 
> to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 208 3ph). 
> 
> So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> 208 3ph? 
> 
> If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the 
> original.) 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  
> 
> Todd Zuercher 
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 
> 
>  
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[andy pugh]

On 3 November 2015 at 13:12, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> printing
> US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
> their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.

I can't actually do that on my Mac either. I have to print to PDF then
print the PDF, otherwise it is impossible to get the print direction
to match the label direction.

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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[Rick Lair]

 > sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
 >

I am getting an error trying this ^^

Here is the error,

greenmill@greenmill:~$ sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
[sudo] password for greenmill:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package linuxcnc-dev is not available, but is referred to by another
package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'linuxcnc-dev' has no installation candidate
greenmill@greenmill:~$


Is this because of running uspace?



Rick





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Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

Samba is installed...

On 11/3/2015 9:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 3 November 2015 at 15:19, John Thornton  wrote:
>> Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as
>> I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian
>> computers.
> You nay need to install Samba, it isn't there by default. I don't know
> if Avahi is or not.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:

>
> > US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
> > their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
> > knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
>
> Does this really surprise anyone??  USPS has a hard time getting mail to
> the right address let alone actually writing code.
>

Well, their Windows software may suck, but on the other hand they were one
of the first US Gov units that deployed a massive Linux infrastructure for
OCRing the address, sorting and routing it. It is an impressive setup.

It's interesting what will happen to them: it's a heavy ship with lots of
difficult and non-technical issues (employees, pensions ,politics and
funding). and the whole model is rapidly becoming obsolete: I would really
like to have my mail spam-filtered because most of the stuff they bring
into my house is junk, while the important stuff is important.

There was a startup that wanted to intercept my mail, and scan it, and
selectively deliver (spam-block most, keep electronic copy of the boring
stuff, and deliver the physically valuable stuff).  I liked the idea but
USPS blocked them, probably because of political considerations.
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Jon Elson]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dave Cole 
 wrote:
>>> US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
>>> their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
>>> knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
Hmm, strange, I've had no trouble, and I use it VERY 
frequently, as I have a web store (mostly selling 
LinuxCNC-related gear).  People buy using PayPal, I ship 
USPS and FedEx, and use the money in PayPal to buy the 
postage online.  I've never had a problem with it.  The 
similar FedEx applet would sometimes print at the wrong 
scale, but they seem to have recently fixed that.

I only use Linux here, except for some CAD applications on 
Windows XP in a virtualbox environment.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Dave Cole]

Hi Jon,

I didn't write that.  I wrote a reply to that.

I have issues with Stamps.com.   I could print postage directly from 
USPS but Stamps.com is nicer, even though their app has scripting 
problems that they don't fix.
I have an Ebay store also but I tend not to use Ebay to print 
postage/shipping as it has been wrong before.   Recently Ebay has been 
really screwing up on large packages that weigh over 80lbs.

Dave

On 11/3/2015 12:58 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dave Cole
>  wrote:
 US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
 their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
 knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
> Hmm, strange, I've had no trouble, and I use it VERY
> frequently, as I have a web store (mostly selling
> LinuxCNC-related gear).  People buy using PayPal, I ship
> USPS and FedEx, and use the money in PayPal to buy the
> postage online.  I've never had a problem with it.  The
> similar FedEx applet would sometimes print at the wrong
> scale, but they seem to have recently fixed that.
>
> I only use Linux here, except for some CAD applications on
> Windows XP in a virtualbox environment.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:02 AM, John Kasunich 
wrote:

> But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed for
> 380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
> the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only
> deliver 208V, then you will be
> limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It
> will still deliver rated torque
> at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower - only
> about 3.8kW.
>

It's not my specialty so I am trying to go over the numbers
methodically---please check if I am getting it right.
At nominal 380V the thing runs at 6kW6kW * 208/380 and 60*240 Hz, i.e.
14400 rpm. At 208V it should do 208/380*14400, or 7880 rpm, close enough.
But for power, P=omega*T, 6kW * 208/380, or 3.28 kW. amirite?
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Todd Zuercher]

The VFD is an old EMS G3+ (Yaskawa) drive.  The old motors were 200-240v(or 
380-460v), 18,000rpm, 7hp.  When running the old motors they were drawing about 
5-7amps when running at 300Hz.  The new motor's tag says 380v, 18,000rpm, 6kw 
and when running with the VFD set to 300Hz shows about 2 amps current draw.  
The first test cut with a 1/4" down spiral through two layers of 1/4" MDF 
(200ipm feed) has no audible drop in rpm, and the VFD shows about 2.5 amps.  I 
think it looks good enough for me.


- Original Message -
From: "Karlsson & Wang" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 11:15:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015, at 09:41 AM, Todd  Zuercher wrote:
> > I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> > at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and 
> > could be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't 
> > think to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 
> > 208 3ph). 
> > 
> > So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> > 208 3ph? 
> > 
> > If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> > half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the 
> > original.) 
> > 
> 
> If you keep the same voltage-to-frequency ratio and maximum current the motor 
> will be happy.
> But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed for 
> 380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
> the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only deliver 
> 208V, then you will be
> limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It will 
> still deliver rated torque
> at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower - only 
> about 3.8kW.
> 
> You can run it at a lower voltage-to-frequency ratio, but you won't get the 
> same torque.  For example
> you could run it at 208V and 240Hz.  You would get a no-load speed of 
> 14,400RPM, but the torque-
> per-amp will be lower - you'll still only get 3.8kW.
> 
> 
> -- 
>   John Kasunich
>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

I agree. To keep voltage-to-frequency ratio up to the maximum voltage and then 
just increase frequency is probably the best.

The VFD may use space vector control instead of voltage-to-frequency ratio.

Did you double check if your motor is Delta connected and may be Y connected 
instead?


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

When I tried to use PayPal to print postage I was using my HP Deskjet 
1220C large format printer and I think that was the problem for me. I 
assume if I had a normal office printer it might have worked. In any 
case I save money using Stamps.com on everything except flat rate so it 
was a win for me.

JT

On 11/3/2015 11:58 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dave Cole
>  wrote:
 US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
 their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
 knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
> Hmm, strange, I've had no trouble, and I use it VERY
> frequently, as I have a web store (mostly selling
> LinuxCNC-related gear).  People buy using PayPal, I ship
> USPS and FedEx, and use the money in PayPal to buy the
> postage online.  I've never had a problem with it.  The
> similar FedEx applet would sometimes print at the wrong
> scale, but they seem to have recently fixed that.
>
> I only use Linux here, except for some CAD applications on
> Windows XP in a virtualbox environment.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

I use Stamps.com as well on a windows machine and it loses the scale if 
I let it go to sleep at night with the program running and the scale on. 
Other than that it does better than going to the post office because you 
can use zone boxes that are much cheaper than regular parcels, too bad 
they are phasing out the C box soon. Also I never could get paypal to 
print postage correctly and glad I gave up on that idea. From a Mac and 
Linux computer you have to use the online version to print postage. It's 
almost funny that Stamps.com doesn't even acknowledge the Linux world 
"Mac users should use Stamps.com Online to print postage."

Just checked and I'm using Version 12.1.1, maybe I should upgrade it so 
get some different problems lol.

JT

On 11/3/2015 10:28 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> On 11/3/2015 8:12 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> For example, printing
>> US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
>> their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
>> knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
> Does this really surprise anyone??  USPS has a hard time getting mail to
> the right address let alone actually writing code.
>
> I use Stamps.com software to print postage and I have the latest version
> running on Windows and every time I run it, I get a scripting error that
> I have to ignore.  It has been like that for years
> over multiple revisions!   And yes, the software is blessed by USPS.
> :-(But I figure if it works at all, it is better than waiting in
> line at the post office or trying to figure out their latest hours of
> operation which are geared to evade us pesky customers.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[John Thornton]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the Debian Hacks! At least file sharing works and low and 
behold it can find my network printer now :) ... still won't print but 
at least I can try some different things now.

Thanks
JT

On 11/3/2015 9:59 AM, Rick Lair wrote:
> John,
>
> Attached are some of my notes that I have found to be working in 
> regards to sharing over the network on Debian.
>
> You may have already tried these, but this is what I have found.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On 11/3/2015 10:44 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Samba is installed...
>>
>> On 11/3/2015 9:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On 3 November 2015 at 15:19, John Thornton  wrote:
 Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as
 I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian
 computers.
>>> You nay need to install Samba, it isn't there by default. I don't know
>>> if Avahi is or not.
>>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Ed]

On 11/03/2015 10:16 AM, Karlsson & Wang wrote:
>>
>> I have been running a 480 V motor at 240 V for a while now on a manual
>> mill. At half the voltage you get  one fourth the power.
>>
>> Ed.
> A half voltage and same speed you get half power. At half speed and half 
> voltage you however get one fourth the power.
>
>
I went right over the VFD part, was thinking line volts and line Hz.

Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Stephen Dubovsky]

Trickier than that.  Depending on the corner point it may be able to
develop the same hp at half speed w/ twice the torque.  One would think
that an induction motor that needed variable speed would be designed to top
out somewhere on the const hp part of the curve than right on the corner
point.  Induction motors can naturally field weaken so that can have a 2+:1
const hp regions.

FWIW, permanent magnet machines can do the same but there are two 'gotchas'
to be careful with.  1) Too much field weakening can demagnetize the
magnets limiting the useful range and 2) if there is a fault and you have
to turn the drive off while in this mode, the field weakening will also
disappear and the back EMF will jump suddenly, rectify back through the
bridge, and make the bus voltage jump (possibly by a factor of 2+!).  You
may need a way to mechanically disconnect the motor from the bridge in a
fault to protect the vfd from overvoltage.  Been there, done that, have the
t-shirt!

Another thing to note.  Space Vector Modulation (SVM) is a bridge
modulation scheme - a type of PWM.  Can be used in V/Hz drives or flux
vector drives which are both control methods.  They are not directly
related.  You can have a V/Hz control using SVM or a flux vector control
using something like hysteresis modulation.  SVM is typically the superior
modulation (most efficient). (neglecting state space control)

SMD

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Przemek Klosowski <
przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:02 AM, John Kasunich 
> wrote:
>
> > But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed
> for
> > 380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
> > the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only
> > deliver 208V, then you will be
> > limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It
> > will still deliver rated torque
> > at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower -
> only
> > about 3.8kW.
> >
>
> It's not my specialty so I am trying to go over the numbers
> methodically---please check if I am getting it right.
> At nominal 380V the thing runs at 6kW6kW * 208/380 and 60*240 Hz, i.e.
> 14400 rpm. At 208V it should do 208/380*14400, or 7880 rpm, close enough.
> But for power, P=omega*T, 6kW * 208/380, or 3.28 kW. amirite?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Jon Elson]

On 11/03/2015 12:19 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
> I didn't write that.  I wrote a reply to that.
>
>
Sorry, I tried to unwind the attribution, but must have 
missed a level.

Jon

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[Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Todd Zuercher]

I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated at 
6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and could be 
wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't think to 
check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 208 3ph). 

So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 208 
3ph? 

If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than half, 
I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the original.) 

-- 

 

Todd Zuercher 
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Ed]

On 11/03/2015 08:41 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and could 
> be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't think 
> to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 208 3ph).
>
> So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> 208 3ph?
>
> If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the original.)
>
I have been running a 480 V motor at 240 V for a while now on a manual 
mill. At half the voltage you get  one fourth the power.

Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 3 November 2015 at 15:41, Rick Lair  wrote:
> E: Package 'linuxcnc-dev' has no installation candidate
> greenmill@greenmill:~$
>
>
> Is this because of running uspace?

I don't know why it is. Can you see it in the graphical package manager?

It seems that both Wheezy and Ubuntu use Synaptic, do you have the
LinuxCNC repository in your third-party sources?
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#Third-Party_Software_Tab


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Karlsson & Wang]

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015, at 09:41 AM, Todd  Zuercher wrote:
> > I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> > at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and 
> > could be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't 
> > think to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 
> > 208 3ph). 
> > 
> > So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> > 208 3ph? 
> > 
> > If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> > half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the 
> > original.) 
> > 
> 
> If you keep the same voltage-to-frequency ratio and maximum current the motor 
> will be happy.
> But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed for 
> 380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
> the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only deliver 
> 208V, then you will be
> limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It will 
> still deliver rated torque
> at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower - only 
> about 3.8kW.
> 
> You can run it at a lower voltage-to-frequency ratio, but you won't get the 
> same torque.  For example
> you could run it at 208V and 240Hz.  You would get a no-load speed of 
> 14,400RPM, but the torque-
> per-amp will be lower - you'll still only get 3.8kW.
> 
> 
> -- 
>   John Kasunich
>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

I agree. To keep voltage-to-frequency ratio up to the maximum voltage and then 
just increase frequency is probably the best.

The VFD may use space vector control instead of voltage-to-frequency ratio.

Did you double check if your motor is Delta connected and may be Y connected 
instead?


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Karlsson & Wang]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:54:32 -0600
Ed  wrote:

> On 11/03/2015 08:41 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > I recently purchased an inexpensive router spindle off of ebay. It is rated 
> > at 6kw and 380v 3ph. The old spindle I'm replacing was dual voltage and 
> > could be wired Y or delta, for 200-240 or 380-460 (7HP). Stupid me I didn't 
> > think to check the old VFD and it is only capible of low voltage (running 
> > 208 3ph).
> >
> > So my question, what are the repercussions of feeding this motor with only 
> > 208 3ph?
> >
> > If the only problem is a loss of a percentage of power, but not more than 
> > half, I can live with that. (It cost less than 1/3 the price of the 
> > original.)
> >
> I have been running a 480 V motor at 240 V for a while now on a manual 
> mill. At half the voltage you get  one fourth the power.
> 
> Ed.

A half voltage and same speed you get half power. At half speed and half 
voltage you however get one fourth the power.

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Dave Cole]

On 11/3/2015 8:12 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> For example, printing
> US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
> their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
> knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.

Does this really surprise anyone??  USPS has a hard time getting mail to 
the right address let alone actually writing code.

I use Stamps.com software to print postage and I have the latest version 
running on Windows and every time I run it, I get a scripting error that 
I have to ignore.  It has been like that for years
over multiple revisions!   And yes, the software is blessed by USPS.   
:-(But I figure if it works at all, it is better than waiting in 
line at the post office or trying to figure out their latest hours of
operation which are geared to evade us pesky customers.

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Bruce Layne]

Hmm  Maybe I'll get that new PC and just mess around with a few 
distros before committing to one and moving my data, email, etc.

Or maybe I'll make a slight horizontal move from Ubuntu to Kubuntu for a 
less Mac-ish user interface.

I blame PayPal and USPS for most of my PC woes.  They're probably not 
always the problem, but it's a good bet.

I guess my biggest concern with Debian running LinuxCNC... can I still 
watch YouTube videos while machining?



On 11/03/2015 10:19 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Funny you should mention that, I can't print to my network printers from
> either Debian Wheezy computer but have no problem printing from Ubuntu
> computers.


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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Rick Lair]

John,

Attached are some of my notes that I have found to be working in regards 
to sharing over the network on Debian.


You may have already tried these, but this is what I have found.

Rick



On 11/3/2015 10:44 AM, John Thornton wrote:

Samba is installed...

On 11/3/2015 9:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On 3 November 2015 at 15:19, John Thornton  wrote:

Networking is also hosed up on my Debian computers and try as
I might I can't share files as freely around my LAN with the Debian
computers.

You nay need to install Samba, it isn't there by default. I don't know
if Avahi is or not.



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Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com



Debian Hacks.rtf
Description: MS-Word document
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Moses McKnight]

To speak of Ubuntu vs. Debian is irrelevant when speaking of the user 
interface. 
  You can run Xubuntu and it will have the same user interface as the one used 
in the linuxcnc version of debian wheezy.  The differences are mostly minor in 
how they are set up.

That said, I have generally found *buntu to be easier to install and to have a 
nicer and easier to use default setup than Debian, but Linux Mint is even 
better 
than *buntu in those things.

On 11/03/2015 07:12 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> I last tried Debian when picking a distro when switching to Linux a very
> long time ago.  I've been using Ubuntu on my CNC tools and my desktop
> for the last few years and have converted some friends and family to
> Ubuntu... because I don't do Windows.  I tried Debian again recently
> when it was part of the installation ISO for the latest version of
> LinuxCNC.  I liked it better than Ubuntu, which seems a bit too Mac-like
> for my tastes.  I haven't used Debian on the desktop yet and haven't
> really used it much with LinuxCNC either, so I can't give it my
> endorsement, but I am very inclined to switch my desktop to Debian when
> I get a new PC.
>
> I should probably stick to the devil I know.  There are all of the
> hidden problems when switching to a new distro.  For example, printing
> US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
> their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
> knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
>
> At this point, I guess I'm basically adopting whatever distro LinuxCNC
> uses in the ISO for my desktop as well.  So far, from the little I've
> seen of it, I like the clean look of Debian, and it works the way my
> brain wants it to work.  Ubuntu seemed too clever for its own good
> sometimes, like the Mac, with things hidden where they are intuitive to
> everyone but me.  User interfaces are very subjective.  YMMV.
>
>
>
> On 11/03/2015 06:18 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> My search is for one that is less annoying than any that I have tried in
>> Debian
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux Mint

[John Thornton]

Chris,

Do you know what the differences are in the real time kernels? I see the 
current liveCD supplies you with 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae what ever that is. I 
assume it is the RTAI kernel but don't know what else that means.

JT

On 11/2/2015 5:34 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
>
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> From: j...@gnipsel.com
>> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:26:43 -0600
>> Subject: [Emc-users] Linux Mint
>>
>> I have Linux Mint 17.2 and like the interface, are there any
>> instructions on how to patch the kernel for real time? I ran uname -r
>> and it reports 3.16.0-38 generic in 17.2. Cinnamon and Mate seem to be
>> the best for me, I could not figure out where the turn off button was in
>> XFCE lol. Finally found it and the name choice was poor.
>>
>> I've done a lot of things on computers but building or patching a kernel
>> is not on that list so any advice is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>> JT
>>
> I would be interested in this too.
> I use RTAI
>
> Chris M
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Re: [Emc-users] Carousel Component

[andy pugh]

On 3 November 2015 at 16:27,   wrote:
> I don't see linuxcnc-dev in the list, and I am going to have to say
> after looking at the source list, thats probably why.

If you are using uspace, that all looks right.

I need to experiment on my own system to check a few things, and that
is at home.

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Dave Cole]

Have you considered installing a second screen on your machine?
Then just add a second PC so you can get full Youtube enjoyment :-)
I'm pretty sure that is an upgrade option now with Haas.   And if not  I 
suggested it here first!  ;-)

Dave


On 11/3/2015 11:02 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> Hmm  Maybe I'll get that new PC and just mess around with a few
> distros before committing to one and moving my data, email, etc.
>
> Or maybe I'll make a slight horizontal move from Ubuntu to Kubuntu for a
> less Mac-ish user interface.
>
> I blame PayPal and USPS for most of my PC woes.  They're probably not
> always the problem, but it's a good bet.
>
> I guess my biggest concern with Debian running LinuxCNC... can I still
> watch YouTube videos while machining?
>
>
>
> On 11/03/2015 10:19 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Funny you should mention that, I can't print to my network printers from
>> either Debian Wheezy computer but have no problem printing from Ubuntu
>> computers.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[andy pugh]

On 3 November 2015 at 16:28, Dave Cole  wrote:

> Does this really surprise anyone??  USPS has a hard time getting mail to
> the right address let alone actually writing code.

The difference is that in my case it is PayPal and Royal Mail, so it
isn't anything to do with USPS.

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