[Emc-users] converting a legacy Arty

[Andrew]

Anyone have experience converting a legacy woodworking machine to run on
LinuxCNC?

Thanks

Drew
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 18:46:03 Florian Rist wrote:

> Hi Gene
>
> > Way above my pay grade. :(  And still the ends of the cutters are at
> > 90 degrees.
>
> Did you ask a manufacture for a custom ground cutter?

No, I won't trouble somebody like kyocera for a onsie.  Yes, they may do 
it, but they expect to serve a niche market and sell many more than one 
to get the engineers paid.  If I was in the market for 50 of them, I 
could see it.  But very few work for nothing like I am, so I will leave 
them to make a product they know they can sell.

So, I bought a 3 foot bar of 3/8" x 2" steel from TSC, cut 3.75" off one 
end, located the center of that, and sent a g3 off to carve me a 22mm 
hole to fit my mandrel.  Tomorrow I'll put a SC tool in the vise and 
trim off the square ends in the mill while spinning in that arbor, then 
cut a V whose leading edge will have about a 5 degree attack angle, 
drill a couple holes in the attacking face and in a small bit of A2 so I 
can bolt it into the cuttout, and cut the hollow I need with a 1/4" SC 
tool, leaving the facing V open by 2 or 3 degrees so I have a few thou 
for the wibblies, bolt it to the machined V face in the end of the bar 
after I tune it up on the waterstone.  I can't harden the A2, so I'll 
likely have to hone it on the powered waterstone a few times by the time 
I get 36 of them done.  Then trim the bottom so they are a uniform 
length and put a bearing equipt roundover in my router table & do the 
other end, which is square across the bottom.  Doing that before I slice 
out the back, leaving a uniform thickness in both faces, and run the 
1/8" roundover up the sides & across the sides of the top, and these 
parts should be ready to glue up.
>
> I had several end mills custom ground to my specifications by Wedco. I
> only had to specify the contour shape, in my case cones with different
> angels and rounded tips, and the material to be machined. Wedco
> designed the exact shape and ground the tool from tungsten carbide.
> Dimension were about 8 mm in diameter and 60 mm in length. With some
> 50-80 EUR it was less expensive than I expected and took only a few
> days.
>
> Another idea: Maybe there is some tool like the one you need used in
> Turbine blade machining. They use all sorts of strange cutters, here's
> link to the first PDF Google brought up:
> http://www.kyocera.com.sg/products/cuttingtools/wp-content/uploads/201
>5/03/KUA-Turbine_blade-EN.pdf

Some interesting stuff, none of which looks usable for this.

Thanks for the digging about, I appreciate your time to do it, thank you 
very much, Florian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Florian Rist]

Hi Gene

> Way above my pay grade. :(  And still the ends of the cutters are at 90
> degrees.

Did you ask a manufacture for a custom ground cutter?

I had several end mills custom ground to my specifications by Wedco. I 
only had to specify the contour shape, in my case cones with different 
angels and rounded tips, and the material to be machined. Wedco designed 
the exact shape and ground the tool from tungsten carbide. Dimension 
were about 8 mm in diameter and 60 mm in length. With some 50-80 EUR it 
was less expensive than I expected and took only a few days.

Another idea: Maybe there is some tool like the one you need used in 
Turbine blade machining. They use all sorts of strange cutters, here's 
link to the first PDF Google brought up: 
http://www.kyocera.com.sg/products/cuttingtools/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/KUA-Turbine_blade-EN.pdf


See you
Flo


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 12:48:21 Florian Rist wrote:

> Hi Gene,
> I'm not sure if it's useful, but using this tool:
>
>
> https://www.hoffmann-group.com/US/en/hus/Mono-machining/Solid-carbide-
>milling-cutters/Solid-carbide-front-back-corner-rounding-cutter-TiAlN-0
>%2C2-mm-GARANT/p/208170
>
> An doing two cuts you might be able to get what you want. Hoffman
> sells these from 2 to 0.2 mm but the charge about 150 EUR for each.
>
> See you
> Florian

Way above my pay grade. :(  And still the ends of the cutters are at 90 
degrees. It would take 4 vise jig setups, and 2 of then can't be done 
because LCNC cannot rotate a coordinate system about any axis but z.

Now if I could rotate the co-ordinate system about the y axis, 
effectively tilting the X axis, that might be usable.  But since we 
cannot, its not usable.  And I just discovered I don't have one of the 
backlash comps right, its carving holes about a thousandth oblong, tight 
on the x axis. Looks like I need to add about .25 thou to the x 
backlash.  But I can't fiddle with that while it is running unless the 
show halconfig might allow me to setp another half a thou for the 
duration.

I didn't think of that till this instant, darnit.  Dumb old man...

Thanks Florian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Steve Traugott]

John, you're right about booting from the live CD.  You usually don't want
to use dd to copy from a mounted (live) filesystem; since it operates at a
block level, any write activity on the source drive during the copy is
likely to produce a corrupt copy. When doing what you want to do, I usually
boot the machine off of a CD and use dd.  If the new drive is larger, or if
I must run in the live machine, I'll partition the new drive with cfdisk
and use rsync to copy the files, then run grub-install to write the boot
track.  In either case, you don't need tar.  Tar doesn't do the right thing
with special files anyway, such as device inodes and sockets, so don't use
it.  (I know much of what I just now said may not make a lot of sense yet.)

Whatever you do, don't get the source and destination drives mixed up.  ;-)


If you want something like a recipe, this google search (on the various
stack exchange web sites) will help:


https://www.google.com/search?q=stack+exchange+clone+drive+linux+dd+rsync

If you want more background and/or have an unusual situation, you'll want
to google for:

- dd
- rsync
- grub
- dmesg  # shows recent hardware activity
- cat /proc/partitions  # shows currently available partitions
- mount # makes an available partition active and attaches it somewhere in
the live filesystem tree
- umount # the Linux equivalent of what you need to do before ejecting
removable media
- chroot

For a boot CD, I usually use systemrescuecd, because it pretty much gives
me a vanilla Linux machine -- I've been working with *nix since the early
80's, so anything more than that just gets in my way for a simple copy.
I've never used clonezilla, but as far as I understand it's got more drive
cloning tools added for what you want to do.  It's also got a lot of
network-based bits in there, the kind of thing needed for multi-machine
deployments, which adds a lot of complexity, but you can just ignore all
that for your use case.

Finally, here's my own completely untested example showing what I usually
would do if using rsync.  I'm probably missing some steps here, and I've
simplified stuff, so use this only as a guide, not a recipe:

Assuming sdc is the source drive and sdd is the destination:

cfdisk /dev/sdd   # make a big Linux partition called sdd1, and a swap
partition roughly 2x RAM size called sdd2
mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdd1  # format sdd1  (caution -- make dead sure sdd1 is the
destination)
mkswap /dev/sdd2  # format swap partition (caution)
mkdir /mnt/sdc1
mkdir /mnt/sdd1
mount /dev/sdc1 /mnt/src  # make source accessible under /mnt/src
mount /dev/sdd1 /mnt/dst  # make destination accessible under /mnt/dst
ls -la /mnt/src  # confirm you're looking at the old drive
ls -la /mnt/dst # confirm this is the new drive -- only thing showing
should be an empty lost+found directory
rsync -HaSx  /mnt/src/ /mnt/dst/  # do the copy -- all of these flags are
important, as well as the trailing slashes
rsync -PHaSvx /mnt/src/ mnt/dst/  # alternative, verbose version of the
above command
mount -t proc none /mnt/dst/proc   # get things set up for the chroot
mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dst/dev
mount -t sysfs sys /mnt/dst/sys
chroot /mnt/dst/ /bin/bash  # start a new shell using /mnt/dst as /
grub-install /dev/sdd  # install boot loader (caution)
exit   # leave the chroot
umount /mnt/dst/proc  # tear down the chroot
umount /mnt/dst/dev
umount /mnt/dst/sys
umount /dev/sdc1  # detach the source and target drives from the live
filesystem tree
umount /dev/sdd1

All of that mount and chroot stuff towards the end is to enable you to use
the new drive's version of grub to install the boot loader in the boot
track of the new drive.  Google for 'chroot grub-install' for more details
about this.

Steve

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 9:28 AM,  wrote:

>
> >> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Note that to close a device you need identical hardware.
> >
> > To clarify, you don’t need “identical” hardware.  You need a disk that
> is the same size or larger to clone a disk.
> > -Tom
>
> And, I should add, that if the disk is larger the extra space is not used
> (due to the partition map).  There are tricks to add that space (or expand
> into it).
> -Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Steve Traugott]

Argh.  Got the mkdir's wrong.  Here's a corrected version, no guarantees
etc.:

Assuming sdc is the source drive and sdd is the destination:
>
> cfdisk /dev/sdd   # make a big Linux partition called sdd1, and a swap
> partition roughly 2x RAM size called sdd2
> mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdd1  # format sdd1  (caution -- make dead sure sdd1 is the
> destination)
> mkswap /dev/sdd2  # format swap partition (caution)
> mkdir /mnt/src
> mkdir /mnt/dst
> mount /dev/sdc1 /mnt/src  # make source accessible under /mnt/src
> mount /dev/sdd1 /mnt/dst  # make destination accessible under /mnt/dst
> ls -la /mnt/src  # confirm you're looking at the old drive
> ls -la /mnt/dst # confirm this is the new drive -- only thing showing
> should be an empty lost+found directory
> rsync -HaSx  /mnt/src/ /mnt/dst/  # do the copy -- all of these flags are
> important, as well as the trailing slashes
> rsync -PHaSvx /mnt/src/ mnt/dst/  # alternative, verbose version of the
> above command
> mount -t proc none /mnt/dst/proc   # get things set up for the chroot
> mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dst/dev
> mount -t sysfs sys /mnt/dst/sys
> chroot /mnt/dst/ /bin/bash  # start a new shell using /mnt/dst as /
> grub-install /dev/sdd  # install boot loader (caution)
> exit   # leave the chroot
> umount /mnt/dst/proc  # tear down the chroot
> umount /mnt/dst/dev
> umount /mnt/dst/sys
> umount /dev/sdc1  # detach the source and target drives from the live
> filesystem tree
> umount /dev/sdd1
>
> All of that mount and chroot stuff towards the end is to enable you to use
> the new drive's version of grub to install the boot loader in the boot
> track of the new drive.  Google for 'chroot grub-install' for more details
> about this.
>

Steve
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Steve Traugott]

Also, you may need to edit /etc/fstab after booting the new machine for it
to find your new swap partition.  Roughly:

free  # if it shows a swap size of 0, then...
sudo nano /etc/fstab  #  find the swap line and change /dev/whatever to
/dev/sda2
sudo swapon -a  # activate the new swap
free # check it

...assuming that after you've booted the new drive in the new machine it
came up as /dev/sda rather than /dev/sdd, of course.

I'm probably giving you just enough info here to be dangerous.  ;-)

Steve


On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Steve Traugott  wrote:

> Argh.  Got the mkdir's wrong.  Here's a corrected version, no guarantees
> etc.:
>
> Assuming sdc is the source drive and sdd is the destination:
>>
>> cfdisk /dev/sdd   # make a big Linux partition called sdd1, and a swap
>> partition roughly 2x RAM size called sdd2
>> mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdd1  # format sdd1  (caution -- make dead sure sdd1 is
>> the destination)
>> mkswap /dev/sdd2  # format swap partition (caution)
>> mkdir /mnt/src
>> mkdir /mnt/dst
>> mount /dev/sdc1 /mnt/src  # make source accessible under /mnt/src
>> mount /dev/sdd1 /mnt/dst  # make destination accessible under /mnt/dst
>> ls -la /mnt/src  # confirm you're looking at the old drive
>> ls -la /mnt/dst # confirm this is the new drive -- only thing showing
>> should be an empty lost+found directory
>> rsync -HaSx  /mnt/src/ /mnt/dst/  # do the copy -- all of these flags are
>> important, as well as the trailing slashes
>> rsync -PHaSvx /mnt/src/ mnt/dst/  # alternative, verbose version of the
>> above command
>> mount -t proc none /mnt/dst/proc   # get things set up for the chroot
>> mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dst/dev
>> mount -t sysfs sys /mnt/dst/sys
>> chroot /mnt/dst/ /bin/bash  # start a new shell using /mnt/dst as /
>> grub-install /dev/sdd  # install boot loader (caution)
>> exit   # leave the chroot
>> umount /mnt/dst/proc  # tear down the chroot
>> umount /mnt/dst/dev
>> umount /mnt/dst/sys
>> umount /dev/sdc1  # detach the source and target drives from the live
>> filesystem tree
>> umount /dev/sdd1
>>
>> All of that mount and chroot stuff towards the end is to enable you to
>> use the new drive's version of grub to install the boot loader in the boot
>> track of the new drive.  Google for 'chroot grub-install' for more details
>> about this.
>>
>
> Steve
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Jon Elson]

On 02/20/2016 07:19 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Hi Philipp,
>
> What I'm trying to do is plug in a hard drive to a working LinuxCNC
> computer and make a clone of that computer to use in another PC. So it
> looks like dd is the way to go for me. So dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
> bs=1M looks like the ticket for me. Is there a fast way to tell which
> harddrive has no data on it? Do I need to format the new drive or will
> dd copy that info as well?
>
>
dd is the simplest way to do it.  tar will give you a clean 
file system on the copy, but you will have to run grub-setup 
to create the boot block.  However, if it has the common 3 
partitions (/boot, / and swap) then you can create 
partitions as you wish, tar the first two partitions, and 
then use dd to copy just the MBR.  Finally there is a 
command to initialize the swap partition, you can wait until 
the copied system is up to do that.  You can find the dd 
commands to copy the MBR with a Google search.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Jon Elson]

On 02/20/2016 05:34 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>
> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>
> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>
> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>
> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>
> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>
> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>
>
I think this will get you everything but the boot block.  If 
you can then get the copied disk booted up from a CD, you 
can then create the boot block with by running grub-setup.  
(It is also possible to run grub-setup after booting from 
the CD, but it takes more options on the command line.)

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Pyngcgui questions

[John Thornton]

The limit on subroutine parameters is 1 through 30.

JT

On 2/20/2016 12:05 PM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> I modified this slightly so that if the number of parameters is greater than 
> 25 (25 happen to fit nicely in the space on my monitor) it will create 
> another column parameters.  By the way, I suspect it is very uncommon for a 
> subroutine to require so many parameters.  All the subroutines I have found 
> so far have less than 15 or so.  So really a single column would suffice most 
> times...
>
> Also, if I get some time I may try to play with the gtk container to see if I 
> can make it scrollable if the parameters go off screen.
>
> 
># try to use minimum height if less than 3 columns
>if nparms > 25:
> # My Edit:
>rowmax = 25
>#rowmax = 10
>else:
> # My Edit:
>rowmax = nparms
>#rowmax  = int(nparms/2 + 0.5)
>
>self.pentries = {}
> 
>
> -Tom
>
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 2:48 PM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Dewey Garrett  wrote:
>>>
 ...
 Is there a way to make them appear as vertical list?
>>> no
>> Thanks Dewey.  I found the .py file and modified the “make_entryfields" 
>> function to set the number of rows equal to the number of parameters.  That 
>> way there is one row per parameter and they all fall down a single column.   
>> A hack, but it works.
>>
>> Also, why couldn’t the subroutine parameters area be set to a 
>> gtk.ScrolledWindow rather than a gtk.Frame so as to at least allow one to 
>> scroll if the parameters go off the screen?
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>>
>> See “My Edit:” below -
>>
>>def make_entryfields(self,nparms):
>>self.no _of_entries = nparms
>># make VBoxes as required to accomodate entries
>># destroy them when starting over -- this occurs
>># when a OnePg is reused for a different subfile
>>try:
>>type(self.columnbox) # test for existence
>># destroy prior VBoxes packed in self.boxofcolumns
>>for c in self.boxofcolumns.children():
>> self.boxofcolumns.remove(c)
>> c.destroy()
>> del(c)
>>except AttributeError:
>># first-time: create initial VBox for entries
>>self.columnbox = gtk.VBox(homogeneous=0,spacing=2)
>>
>>self.boxofcolumns.pack_start(self.columnbox)
>>
>># try to use minimum height if less than 3 columns
>>if nparms > 20:
>> # My Edit:
>>rowmax = nparms
>>#rowmax = 10
>>else:
>> # My Edit:
>>rowmax = nparms
>>#rowmax  = int(nparms/2 + 0.5)
>>
>>self.pentries = {}
>>row  = 0
>>idx  = 1 # 1-based to agree with parm no.s
>>for i in range(0,nparms):
>>if row >= rowmax:
>>row = 0
>># make a new VBox for next column of entries
>>self.columnbox = gtk.VBox(homogeneous=0,spacing=2)
>>self.boxofcolumns.pack_start(self.columnbox)
>>self.pentries[idx] = OneParmEntry('','','')
>>self.columnbox.pack_start(self.pentries[idx].box
>> ,expand=0,fill=0,padding=0)
>>row += 1
>>idx += 1
>>self.boxofcolumns.show_all()
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Re: [Emc-users] Pyngcgui questions

[tom-emc]

I modified this slightly so that if the number of parameters is greater than 25 
(25 happen to fit nicely in the space on my monitor) it will create another 
column parameters.  By the way, I suspect it is very uncommon for a subroutine 
to require so many parameters.  All the subroutines I have found so far have 
less than 15 or so.  So really a single column would suffice most times...

Also, if I get some time I may try to play with the gtk container to see if I 
can make it scrollable if the parameters go off screen.


  # try to use minimum height if less than 3 columns
  if nparms > 25:
# My Edit:
  rowmax = 25
  #rowmax = 10
  else:
# My Edit:
  rowmax = nparms
  #rowmax  = int(nparms/2 + 0.5)

  self.pentries = {}


-Tom

> On Feb 19, 2016, at 2:48 PM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Dewey Garrett  wrote:
>> 
>>> ...
>>> Is there a way to make them appear as vertical list?
>> no
> 
> Thanks Dewey.  I found the .py file and modified the “make_entryfields" 
> function to set the number of rows equal to the number of parameters.  That 
> way there is one row per parameter and they all fall down a single column.   
> A hack, but it works.  
> 
> Also, why couldn’t the subroutine parameters area be set to a 
> gtk.ScrolledWindow rather than a gtk.Frame so as to at least allow one to 
> scroll if the parameters go off the screen?
> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
> See “My Edit:” below -
> 
>   def make_entryfields(self,nparms):
>   self.no _of_entries = nparms
>   # make VBoxes as required to accomodate entries
>   # destroy them when starting over -- this occurs
>   # when a OnePg is reused for a different subfile
>   try:
>   type(self.columnbox) # test for existence
>   # destroy prior VBoxes packed in self.boxofcolumns
>   for c in self.boxofcolumns.children():
>self.boxofcolumns.remove(c)
>c.destroy()
>del(c)
>   except AttributeError:
>   # first-time: create initial VBox for entries
>   self.columnbox = gtk.VBox(homogeneous=0,spacing=2)
> 
>   self.boxofcolumns.pack_start(self.columnbox)
> 
>   # try to use minimum height if less than 3 columns
>   if nparms > 20:
> # My Edit:
>   rowmax = nparms
>   #rowmax = 10
>   else:
> # My Edit:
>   rowmax = nparms
>   #rowmax  = int(nparms/2 + 0.5)
> 
>   self.pentries = {}
>   row  = 0
>   idx  = 1 # 1-based to agree with parm no.s
>   for i in range(0,nparms):
>   if row >= rowmax:
>   row = 0
>   # make a new VBox for next column of entries
>   self.columnbox = gtk.VBox(homogeneous=0,spacing=2)
>   self.boxofcolumns.pack_start(self.columnbox)
>   self.pentries[idx] = OneParmEntry('','','')
>   self.columnbox.pack_start(self.pentries[idx].box
>,expand=0,fill=0,padding=0)
>   row += 1
>   idx += 1
>   self.boxofcolumns.show_all()
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Florian Rist]

Hi Gene,
I'm not sure if it's useful, but using this tool:

   
https://www.hoffmann-group.com/US/en/hus/Mono-machining/Solid-carbide-milling-cutters/Solid-carbide-front-back-corner-rounding-cutter-TiAlN-0%2C2-mm-GARANT/p/208170

An doing two cuts you might be able to get what you want. Hoffman sells 
these from 2 to 0.2 mm but the charge about 150 EUR for each.

See you
Florian


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 12:21:36 Chris Albertson wrote:

> > No, ball is the inverse of the shape I need, see
>
> Just curious,  I thought there was a theory that ANYTHING could be
> milled with a ball mill with just two  restrictions
> 1) the radius of the ball limits the minimum radius you can cut
> 2) with only 3 axis you can not cut an overhang design.
>
> So in theory you can round over a corner with a ball mill on a CNC
> machine but you's need a special round over bit on a one-axils router

This is also true, but facing it up so the curve junction describes a 
straight line along the Y axis, carving that curve once would be quick 
enough, but the multiple passes, following an arc about 10 thou at a 
time with a ballnose, or even a 3/4" core box cutter (faster edges going 
by=cleaner cuts), to get the final curved edge would indeed be a time 
consuming project. For a onsie, yes, for 36 of them, not practical.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 11:33:13 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> A picture is worth a thousand words.
> Whiteside Tools part #1430 for an 1/8" radius (there is also a smaller
> 3/32") http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/catalog.html#catimgs
> A good place to order thier tools is Carbide Processors.
> http://www.carbideprocessors.com/half-round-bit-for-1-4-material-1-2-s
>hank-whiteside-1430/

That could be ground down, leaving a fingernail when done, but that would 
be at least $40 worth of dremels large diamond wheels worn out to do it, 
or quite a bit off my green grinder stone. But the first thing I'd have 
to do if fix my grinder, the foot is vibrating loose.  Either way raises 
the cost quite a bit.
>
> If you were wanting something more like a half bull nose rather than a
> full (like the above). You might be out of luck in an off the shelf
> option.  But it might not be to hard to grind down a full round over
> bit to the shape you'd like.

Yes, that one would do, if the outside were ground down. I think I'll 
pursue the other idea in the handbook pages as I would get a much 
smoother cut with the higher edge velocity of the bigger wheel carrying 
a single tooth.

Thanks Todd, for reminding me I could grind down a half round to get the 
fingernail I need. That hadn't yet clicked in this old wet ram.  Darnit.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[tom-emc]

>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Chris Albertson  
>> wrote:
>> Note that to close a device you need identical hardware. 
> 
> To clarify, you don’t need “identical” hardware.  You need a disk that is the 
> same size or larger to clone a disk. 
> -Tom

And, I should add, that if the disk is larger the extra space is not used (due 
to the partition map).  There are tricks to add that space (or expand into it).
-Tom 


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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[tom-emc]

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> Note that to close a device you need identical hardware. 

To clarify, you don’t need “identical” hardware.  You need a disk that is the 
same size or larger to clone a disk. 
-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Chris Albertson]

> No, ball is the inverse of the shape I need, see

Just curious,  I thought there was a theory that ANYTHING could be
milled with a ball mill with just two  restrictions
1) the radius of the ball limits the minimum radius you can cut
2) with only 3 axis you can not cut an overhang design.

So in theory you can round over a corner with a ball mill on a CNC
machine but you's need a special round over bit on a one-axils router

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 09:46:04 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 20 February 2016 05:18:13 Marcus Bowman wrote:
> > On 20 Feb 2016, at 09:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 20 February 2016 02:49:15 Marcus Bowman wrote:
> > >> On 20 Feb 2016, at 02:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >>> Greetings all;
> > >>>
> > >>> I am not haveing any luck finding one smaller than 3/8 radius,
> > >>> and I need one that cuts with a 1/8" radius.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any body know of a place I might be able to source one that
> > >>> small?
> > >>
> > >> Not sure where might be close to you, but I have one which I got
> > >> at a local wood turners' store. It is a 1/8inch gouge tool, but I
> > >> made it into something more like a fingernail tool by grinding. I
> > >> just copied the shape of one of my larger fingernail gouges. With
> > >> a tool that small in section, it needs support close to the
> > >> cutting edge, because I find mine prone to chatter unless the
> > >> rest is set close in. I would be inclined to fix it in a 5/8inch
> > >> sleeve machined with a tapered nose.
> > >>
> > >> I can also highly recommend the Drozda Finial Gouge, which takes
> > >> things a stage further. Cuts beautifully when used by hand. You
> > >> can buy one here: http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/Tool_Info.html
> > >>
> > >> but I bought the DVD which shows you how to make one (too far
> > >> away for the expensive carriage on the tool to make sense). There
> > >> is a youTube video around which shows much the same thing, I
> > >> think. There used to be a clip on the Drozda site, as I recall.
> > >>
> > >> Marcus
> > >
> > > But Marcus, I am not doing this by hand, or even on a wood lathe,
> > > this would be a router bit, chucked in my milling machine,
> > > possibly making multiple passes to get the correct edge profile.
> >
> > Point taken; sorry.
> > So could you do this using a ball-nosed end mill?  Or could you
> > reshape an end mill?
>
> No, ball is the inverse of the shape I need, see
>
> 
>
> for an example but that ones 3/8" width of hollow is nominally 2x
> wider than what I need. A 1/8" radius would be the bees knees for
> this.
>
> I have some 4" wide, 1/2" thick 7075-t6 that I can make a blade holder
> disk from by boring a 22mm hole to fit an arbor, then taking out a pie
> slice, and fitting a 1/2" x 1/8" piece of A2, and shape the end with a
> 1/4" SC mill, basically makeing the tool I need but it will take me
> most of the weekend.  I would rather the disk was steel as I expect
> the mass would improve the quality of cut, but that alu is what I
> have.  And I haven't the capability of hardening the A2 when its done.
>
> Thanks Marcus.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Thinking about this, and the fact that around 2700 revs is wide open, 
combined with the faster the edge going by the wood, the cleaner the 
cut, I am tempted to use a square of that alu, and put the blade in a 
corner of the square. But I am also reminded that its a 3d curve, and I 
can't exceed the radius of the already carved face and end curves at the 
junction of the curves.

The curves were carved with a 4" diameter blade, intended for a 
Porter-Cable #557 biscuit joiner, blade mounted on an arbor in the mill, 
and with the vise tipped up about 36.5 degrees. The blade was then swept 
down at that same angle, at 20 IPM, and back up to x0y0 at 2 IPM to 
leave a surface that 2 minutes of sanding on a 220 grit form leaves a 
surface ready for finish.

And with a 4" blade laying horizontal and the vise tipped 36.5 degrees.

So how do I calculate the radius of where the two curves meet?, because 
that is the maximum diameter of the cutting tool radius I can actually 
use. 

When I made the sanding form, the radius of that curve, driving a 3/4" 
bullnose tool, was 3.25", and while the form is wider, the workpiece is 
only 2.1" wide, and thats within a thou of matching what I have cut with 
the saw blade. So that is a pretty good guess for a starting point.  But 
wouldn't the junctions sharp edge where those two curves meet, be 
effectively a smaller radius? 

But I've no math knowledge to use to calculate how much smaller. :(

For starters the bullnose tool would have a rising cutting edge as it 
goes off the centerline and the highest point of that curve, which would 
make the radius of that curve slightly larger than the R-3.25" that was 
in the G3 gcode that carved it.

Would it suffice to measure the chord and the depth below the chord line, 
can I somehow determine the maximum tolerable radius of tool by that 
means?

I know there is some trig about this chord stuff in the Handbook #27, so 
I'll go see if some button pushing can arrive at a usefull number.

The concern is that if I make too big a cutter I'll be cutting off the 
outside corners without reaching the center. If I make it a few thou too 
small, I can always plug in a small G3 in the gcode to expand it.

I'll come back in before I've made any swarf to check 

Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Chris Albertson]

tar and dd do it differently.  dd is works at the block/device level
and does not know anything about the file system.  It will copy the
boot sector and so on.  tar on the other hand reads files.

So do you want to clone the device or copy al the files?  Note that to
close a device you need identical hardware.  tar beach it works with
files can copy them even to a different kind of OS, say from Linus to
a mac.  Very different.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:34 AM, John Thornton  wrote:
> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>
> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>
> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>
> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>
> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>
> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>
> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>
> Thanks
> JT
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Todd Zuercher]

A picture is worth a thousand words.
Whiteside Tools part #1430 for an 1/8" radius (there is also a smaller 3/32")
http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/catalog.html#catimgs
A good place to order thier tools is Carbide Processors.
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/half-round-bit-for-1-4-material-1-2-shank-whiteside-1430/

If you were wanting something more like a half bull nose rather than a full 
(like the above). You might be out of luck in an off the shelf option.  But it 
might not be to hard to grind down a full round over bit to the shape you'd 
like.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 9:46:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

On Saturday 20 February 2016 05:18:13 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> On 20 Feb 2016, at 09:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 20 February 2016 02:49:15 Marcus Bowman wrote:
> >> On 20 Feb 2016, at 02:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> I am not haveing any luck finding one smaller than 3/8 radius, and
> >>> I need one that cuts with a 1/8" radius.
> >>>
> >>> Any body know of a place I might be able to source one that small?
> >>
> >> Not sure where might be close to you, but I have one which I got at
> >> a local wood turners' store. It is a 1/8inch gouge tool, but I made
> >> it into something more like a fingernail tool by grinding. I just
> >> copied the shape of one of my larger fingernail gouges. With a tool
> >> that small in section, it needs support close to the cutting edge,
> >> because I find mine prone to chatter unless the rest is set close
> >> in. I would be inclined to fix it in a 5/8inch sleeve machined with
> >> a tapered nose.
> >>
> >> I can also highly recommend the Drozda Finial Gouge, which takes
> >> things a stage further. Cuts beautifully when used by hand. You can
> >> buy one here: http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/Tool_Info.html
> >>
> >> but I bought the DVD which shows you how to make one (too far away
> >> for the expensive carriage on the tool to make sense). There is a
> >> youTube video around which shows much the same thing, I think.
> >> There used to be a clip on the Drozda site, as I recall.
> >>
> >> Marcus
> >
> > But Marcus, I am not doing this by hand, or even on a wood lathe,
> > this would be a router bit, chucked in my milling machine, possibly
> > making multiple passes to get the correct edge profile.
>
> Point taken; sorry.
> So could you do this using a ball-nosed end mill?  Or could you
> reshape an end mill?

No, ball is the inverse of the shape I need, see



for an example but that ones 3/8" width of hollow is nominally 2x wider 
than what I need. A 1/8" radius would be the bees knees for this.

I have some 4" wide, 1/2" thick 7075-t6 that I can make a blade holder 
disk from by boring a 22mm hole to fit an arbor, then taking out a pie 
slice, and fitting a 1/2" x 1/8" piece of A2, and shape the end with a 
1/4" SC mill, basically makeing the tool I need but it will take me most 
of the weekend.  I would rather the disk was steel as I expect the mass 
would improve the quality of cut, but that alu is what I have.  And I 
haven't the capability of hardening the A2 when its done.

Thanks Marcus.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

And that is why I ask those questions on this list! Thanks Tom.

JT

On 2/20/2016 10:06 AM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> +1 for Clonezilla.  I keep it on an old usb stick, boot from it and clone the 
> drives.  I use it fairly frequently and keep copies of machine drives so if I 
> lose one I can just put in the clone and continue on my way.  Also, as Sarah 
> mentions, not only is dd copying every bit (even blanks) and taking a long 
> time to do it, you should be booted off a third disk anyway to avoid the 
> problem of copying live, changing data.  Often this doesn’t cause a problem, 
> but it CAN cause problems and I’ve had issues related to it in the past.
>
> -Tom
>
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Sarah Armstrong  
>> wrote:
>>
>> clonezillia is better for a number of reasons , it may seem complex but
>> you'll soon get the hang of it
>> the problem with using dd is it will also copy temp files, temp drive and
>> your uuid's to the cloned drive , amongst other things
>> you also dont want to be using the drive that your copying ... ( might
>> sound obvious now )
>>
>> also if your copying to drives of different sizes dd wont like it ,
>> clonezilla will only copy whats needed and not all the blanks as dd will
>> just , well copy everything blind . clonezilla works as a live cd , so your
>> not running the drive your copying .
>>
>> dd works fine dont get me wrong , ok if it's your own machines , but if
>> it's for clients then i'd use clonezilla .
>> and if the drives are large like 1tb or 3 then look for around 6 hours of
>> doing nothing .
>>
>> just my 2 pence worth JT .
>>
>> personally i use rdrive image (http://www.drive-image.com ) & clonezilla
>> depends on how much of a rush i'm in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 February 2016 at 13:48, John Thornton  wrote:
>>
>>> I looked at Clonezilla and it seems way more complicated than using dd.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the idea.
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>> On 2/20/2016 5:51 AM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
 Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)

 - Messaggio originale -
 Da: "John Thornton" 
 Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
 A: "EMC Mailing List" 
 Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

 I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.

 Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.

 dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg

 In this case what do they mean by mount?

 Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)

 tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt

 does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?

 Thanks
 JT


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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[tom-emc]

+1 for Clonezilla.  I keep it on an old usb stick, boot from it and clone the 
drives.  I use it fairly frequently and keep copies of machine drives so if I 
lose one I can just put in the clone and continue on my way.  Also, as Sarah 
mentions, not only is dd copying every bit (even blanks) and taking a long time 
to do it, you should be booted off a third disk anyway to avoid the problem of 
copying live, changing data.  Often this doesn’t cause a problem, but it CAN 
cause problems and I’ve had issues related to it in the past.

-Tom

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Sarah Armstrong  
> wrote:
> 
> clonezillia is better for a number of reasons , it may seem complex but
> you'll soon get the hang of it
> the problem with using dd is it will also copy temp files, temp drive and
> your uuid's to the cloned drive , amongst other things
> you also dont want to be using the drive that your copying ... ( might
> sound obvious now )
> 
> also if your copying to drives of different sizes dd wont like it ,
> clonezilla will only copy whats needed and not all the blanks as dd will
> just , well copy everything blind . clonezilla works as a live cd , so your
> not running the drive your copying .
> 
> dd works fine dont get me wrong , ok if it's your own machines , but if
> it's for clients then i'd use clonezilla .
> and if the drives are large like 1tb or 3 then look for around 6 hours of
> doing nothing .
> 
> just my 2 pence worth JT .
> 
> personally i use rdrive image (http://www.drive-image.com ) & clonezilla
> depends on how much of a rush i'm in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20 February 2016 at 13:48, John Thornton  wrote:
> 
>> I looked at Clonezilla and it seems way more complicated than using dd.
>> 
>> Thanks for the idea.
>> 
>> JT
>> 
>> On 2/20/2016 5:51 AM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
>>> Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)
>>> 
>>> - Messaggio originale -
>>> Da: "John Thornton" 
>>> Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
>>> A: "EMC Mailing List" 
>>> Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD
>>> 
>>> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>>> 
>>> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>>> 
>>> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>>> 
>>> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>>> 
>>> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>>> 
>>> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>>> 
>>> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> JT
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 05:18:13 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> On 20 Feb 2016, at 09:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 20 February 2016 02:49:15 Marcus Bowman wrote:
> >> On 20 Feb 2016, at 02:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> I am not haveing any luck finding one smaller than 3/8 radius, and
> >>> I need one that cuts with a 1/8" radius.
> >>>
> >>> Any body know of a place I might be able to source one that small?
> >>
> >> Not sure where might be close to you, but I have one which I got at
> >> a local wood turners' store. It is a 1/8inch gouge tool, but I made
> >> it into something more like a fingernail tool by grinding. I just
> >> copied the shape of one of my larger fingernail gouges. With a tool
> >> that small in section, it needs support close to the cutting edge,
> >> because I find mine prone to chatter unless the rest is set close
> >> in. I would be inclined to fix it in a 5/8inch sleeve machined with
> >> a tapered nose.
> >>
> >> I can also highly recommend the Drozda Finial Gouge, which takes
> >> things a stage further. Cuts beautifully when used by hand. You can
> >> buy one here: http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/Tool_Info.html
> >>
> >> but I bought the DVD which shows you how to make one (too far away
> >> for the expensive carriage on the tool to make sense). There is a
> >> youTube video around which shows much the same thing, I think.
> >> There used to be a clip on the Drozda site, as I recall.
> >>
> >> Marcus
> >
> > But Marcus, I am not doing this by hand, or even on a wood lathe,
> > this would be a router bit, chucked in my milling machine, possibly
> > making multiple passes to get the correct edge profile.
>
> Point taken; sorry.
> So could you do this using a ball-nosed end mill?  Or could you
> reshape an end mill?

No, ball is the inverse of the shape I need, see



for an example but that ones 3/8" width of hollow is nominally 2x wider 
than what I need. A 1/8" radius would be the bees knees for this.

I have some 4" wide, 1/2" thick 7075-t6 that I can make a blade holder 
disk from by boring a 22mm hole to fit an arbor, then taking out a pie 
slice, and fitting a 1/2" x 1/8" piece of A2, and shape the end with a 
1/4" SC mill, basically makeing the tool I need but it will take me most 
of the weekend.  I would rather the disk was steel as I expect the mass 
would improve the quality of cut, but that alu is what I have.  And I 
haven't the capability of hardening the A2 when its done.

Thanks Marcus.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] R: Clone a HD

[Sarah Armstrong]

clonezillia is better for a number of reasons , it may seem complex but
you'll soon get the hang of it
the problem with using dd is it will also copy temp files, temp drive and
your uuid's to the cloned drive , amongst other things
you also dont want to be using the drive that your copying ... ( might
sound obvious now )

also if your copying to drives of different sizes dd wont like it ,
clonezilla will only copy whats needed and not all the blanks as dd will
just , well copy everything blind . clonezilla works as a live cd , so your
not running the drive your copying .

dd works fine dont get me wrong , ok if it's your own machines , but if
it's for clients then i'd use clonezilla .
and if the drives are large like 1tb or 3 then look for around 6 hours of
doing nothing .

just my 2 pence worth JT .

personally i use rdrive image (http://www.drive-image.com ) & clonezilla
depends on how much of a rush i'm in




On 20 February 2016 at 13:48, John Thornton  wrote:

> I looked at Clonezilla and it seems way more complicated than using dd.
>
> Thanks for the idea.
>
> JT
>
> On 2/20/2016 5:51 AM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
> > Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)
> >
> > - Messaggio originale -
> > Da: "John Thornton" 
> > Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
> > A: "EMC Mailing List" 
> > Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD
> >
> > I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
> >
> > Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
> >
> > dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
> >
> > In this case what do they mean by mount?
> >
> > Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
> >
> > tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
> >
> > does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
> >
> > Thanks
> > JT
> >
> >
> --
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] R: Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

I looked at Clonezilla and it seems way more complicated than using dd.

Thanks for the idea.

JT

On 2/20/2016 5:51 AM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
> Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)
>
> - Messaggio originale -
> Da: "John Thornton" 
> Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
> A: "EMC Mailing List" 
> Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD
>
> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>
> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>
> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>
> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>
> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>
> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>
> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>
> Thanks
> JT
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Philipp Burch]

Hi John,

if it is a removable drive, you can just plug it in while the computer
is running in the LiveCD environment and then check in the kernel log

# dmesg | tail

which device file newly appeared. If it is not hot-plug capable, you can
try to mount one of them and (if that succeeds) check if it contains the
data you want to copy. If there is only a /dev/sdX file and no /dev/sdX1
file, then this disk does not contain any partitions and is most likely
the blank target drive.

Formatting the target drive is not required, as dd will copy the
partition table and all data from source to destination.

Bye,
Philipp

On 20.02.2016 14:19, John Thornton wrote:
> Hi Philipp,
> 
> What I'm trying to do is plug in a hard drive to a working LinuxCNC 
> computer and make a clone of that computer to use in another PC. So it 
> looks like dd is the way to go for me. So dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb 
> bs=1M looks like the ticket for me. Is there a fast way to tell which 
> harddrive has no data on it? Do I need to format the new drive or will 
> dd copy that info as well?
> 
> Thanks for the great reply.
> 
> JT
> 
> On 2/20/2016 6:01 AM, Philipp Burch wrote:
>> Hi John!
>>
>> On 20.02.2016 12:34, John Thornton wrote:
>>> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>>>
>>> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>>>
>>> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>>>
>>> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>> It depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to clone a HD in a
>> two-step process going over an image file, then this approach is fine.
>> "Mounting" the destination media in this case just means to make it
>> accessible in the same way as you would do outside the LiveCD
>> environment, i.e. by doing it manually using something like
>>
>> # mount /dev/sdX /mnt
>>
>> or by clicking the drive in the file browser. If you plug in a removable
>> disk, it might also be mounted automatically. On recent versions of
>> Ubuntu, the standard mounting location is
>>
>> /media/username/drivename
>>
>> The directory /mnt is not special at all, it is just kind of a
>> convention to use it as a mount point for some media. But you could just
>> as easily create a folder on your desktop and mount the drive there.
>>
>> A few words to dd: You may get somewhat faster operation by letting it
>> working with larger chunks of data. I usually use something like
>>
>> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M
>>
>> so that it reads and writes 1MiB blocks instead of the default (probably
>> 4kiB). If you know for sure that your source HD only contains data up to
>> some address, you can avoid creating an image padded with a lot of
>> unused data by limiting the amount of data to copy:
>>
>> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M count=4000
>>
>> This will copy 4000*1M=4GB of data and stop then. If you want to keep
>> the image around, it may also be a good idea to compress it on-the-fly.
>> This can be done by omitting the of=dest part, in which case dd will
>> output the data to stdout, from where it can be piped through gzip (or
>> another stream compression utility). But I'd need to look up the
>> required flags for gzip first.
>>
>>> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>>>
>>> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>>>
>>> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>> Maybe. While dd operates on the raw disk file (e.g. /dev/sda, you
>> usually do NOT want /dev/sda1), tar takes all the files in the source
>> filesystem and puts them in an archive. This may save some space and
>> makes it easier to browse through the files, but it requires that you
>> partition and format a new disk before copying the archive back onto it.
>>
>> So, depending on the use-case, I'd suggest one of those variants:
>>
>> - If you want to create an exact clone of a drive and can connect both
>> the source and destination drive to your computer at the same time, then
>> use dd without compression and directly operating on the device files of
>> the two drives. I.e.
>> # dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M
>> Make *really, really* sure that you do not mess up if and of, as dd
>> otherwise will happily overwrite your source drive!
>>
>> - If you want to create a backup image of an entire disk for later
>> copying to a fresh drive, use dd, maybe with the count flag and/or with
>> compression and store the output in a regular file somewhere convenient.
>>
>> - If you want to create a backup of only one file system and want to get
>> easy access to the individual files, use the tar approach.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Philipp
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] R: Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

Thanks, I'll take a look at it too.

JT

On 2/20/2016 5:51 AM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
> Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)
>
> - Messaggio originale -
> Da: "John Thornton" 
> Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
> A: "EMC Mailing List" 
> Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD
>
> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>
> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>
> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>
> In this case what do they mean by mount?
>
> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>
> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>
> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
>
> Thanks
> JT
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

Ok I found sudo fdisk -l to see the drives...

JT

On 2/20/2016 6:01 AM, Philipp Burch wrote:
> Hi John!
>
> On 20.02.2016 12:34, John Thornton wrote:
>> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>>
>> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>>
>> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>>
>> In this case what do they mean by mount?
> It depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to clone a HD in a
> two-step process going over an image file, then this approach is fine.
> "Mounting" the destination media in this case just means to make it
> accessible in the same way as you would do outside the LiveCD
> environment, i.e. by doing it manually using something like
>
> # mount /dev/sdX /mnt
>
> or by clicking the drive in the file browser. If you plug in a removable
> disk, it might also be mounted automatically. On recent versions of
> Ubuntu, the standard mounting location is
>
> /media/username/drivename
>
> The directory /mnt is not special at all, it is just kind of a
> convention to use it as a mount point for some media. But you could just
> as easily create a folder on your desktop and mount the drive there.
>
> A few words to dd: You may get somewhat faster operation by letting it
> working with larger chunks of data. I usually use something like
>
> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M
>
> so that it reads and writes 1MiB blocks instead of the default (probably
> 4kiB). If you know for sure that your source HD only contains data up to
> some address, you can avoid creating an image padded with a lot of
> unused data by limiting the amount of data to copy:
>
> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M count=4000
>
> This will copy 4000*1M=4GB of data and stop then. If you want to keep
> the image around, it may also be a good idea to compress it on-the-fly.
> This can be done by omitting the of=dest part, in which case dd will
> output the data to stdout, from where it can be piped through gzip (or
> another stream compression utility). But I'd need to look up the
> required flags for gzip first.
>
>> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>>
>> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>>
>> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
> Maybe. While dd operates on the raw disk file (e.g. /dev/sda, you
> usually do NOT want /dev/sda1), tar takes all the files in the source
> filesystem and puts them in an archive. This may save some space and
> makes it easier to browse through the files, but it requires that you
> partition and format a new disk before copying the archive back onto it.
>
> So, depending on the use-case, I'd suggest one of those variants:
>
> - If you want to create an exact clone of a drive and can connect both
> the source and destination drive to your computer at the same time, then
> use dd without compression and directly operating on the device files of
> the two drives. I.e.
> # dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M
> Make *really, really* sure that you do not mess up if and of, as dd
> otherwise will happily overwrite your source drive!
>
> - If you want to create a backup image of an entire disk for later
> copying to a fresh drive, use dd, maybe with the count flag and/or with
> compression and store the output in a regular file somewhere convenient.
>
> - If you want to create a backup of only one file system and want to get
> easy access to the individual files, use the tar approach.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Cheers,
> Philipp
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

Hi Philipp,

What I'm trying to do is plug in a hard drive to a working LinuxCNC 
computer and make a clone of that computer to use in another PC. So it 
looks like dd is the way to go for me. So dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb 
bs=1M looks like the ticket for me. Is there a fast way to tell which 
harddrive has no data on it? Do I need to format the new drive or will 
dd copy that info as well?

Thanks for the great reply.

JT

On 2/20/2016 6:01 AM, Philipp Burch wrote:
> Hi John!
>
> On 20.02.2016 12:34, John Thornton wrote:
>> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
>>
>> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
>>
>> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
>>
>> In this case what do they mean by mount?
> It depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to clone a HD in a
> two-step process going over an image file, then this approach is fine.
> "Mounting" the destination media in this case just means to make it
> accessible in the same way as you would do outside the LiveCD
> environment, i.e. by doing it manually using something like
>
> # mount /dev/sdX /mnt
>
> or by clicking the drive in the file browser. If you plug in a removable
> disk, it might also be mounted automatically. On recent versions of
> Ubuntu, the standard mounting location is
>
> /media/username/drivename
>
> The directory /mnt is not special at all, it is just kind of a
> convention to use it as a mount point for some media. But you could just
> as easily create a folder on your desktop and mount the drive there.
>
> A few words to dd: You may get somewhat faster operation by letting it
> working with larger chunks of data. I usually use something like
>
> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M
>
> so that it reads and writes 1MiB blocks instead of the default (probably
> 4kiB). If you know for sure that your source HD only contains data up to
> some address, you can avoid creating an image padded with a lot of
> unused data by limiting the amount of data to copy:
>
> # dd if=src of=dest bs=1M count=4000
>
> This will copy 4000*1M=4GB of data and stop then. If you want to keep
> the image around, it may also be a good idea to compress it on-the-fly.
> This can be done by omitting the of=dest part, in which case dd will
> output the data to stdout, from where it can be piped through gzip (or
> another stream compression utility). But I'd need to look up the
> required flags for gzip first.
>
>> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
>>
>> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
>>
>> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?
> Maybe. While dd operates on the raw disk file (e.g. /dev/sda, you
> usually do NOT want /dev/sda1), tar takes all the files in the source
> filesystem and puts them in an archive. This may save some space and
> makes it easier to browse through the files, but it requires that you
> partition and format a new disk before copying the archive back onto it.
>
> So, depending on the use-case, I'd suggest one of those variants:
>
> - If you want to create an exact clone of a drive and can connect both
> the source and destination drive to your computer at the same time, then
> use dd without compression and directly operating on the device files of
> the two drives. I.e.
> # dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M
> Make *really, really* sure that you do not mess up if and of, as dd
> otherwise will happily overwrite your source drive!
>
> - If you want to create a backup image of an entire disk for later
> copying to a fresh drive, use dd, maybe with the count flag and/or with
> compression and store the output in a regular file somewhere convenient.
>
> - If you want to create a backup of only one file system and want to get
> easy access to the individual files, use the tar approach.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Cheers,
> Philipp
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

[Philipp Burch]

Hi John!

On 20.02.2016 12:34, John Thornton wrote:
> I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.
> 
> Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.
> 
> dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg
> 
> In this case what do they mean by mount?

It depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to clone a HD in a
two-step process going over an image file, then this approach is fine.
"Mounting" the destination media in this case just means to make it
accessible in the same way as you would do outside the LiveCD
environment, i.e. by doing it manually using something like

# mount /dev/sdX /mnt

or by clicking the drive in the file browser. If you plug in a removable
disk, it might also be mounted automatically. On recent versions of
Ubuntu, the standard mounting location is

/media/username/drivename

The directory /mnt is not special at all, it is just kind of a
convention to use it as a mount point for some media. But you could just
as easily create a folder on your desktop and mount the drive there.

A few words to dd: You may get somewhat faster operation by letting it
working with larger chunks of data. I usually use something like

# dd if=src of=dest bs=1M

so that it reads and writes 1MiB blocks instead of the default (probably
4kiB). If you know for sure that your source HD only contains data up to
some address, you can avoid creating an image padded with a lot of
unused data by limiting the amount of data to copy:

# dd if=src of=dest bs=1M count=4000

This will copy 4000*1M=4GB of data and stop then. If you want to keep
the image around, it may also be a good idea to compress it on-the-fly.
This can be done by omitting the of=dest part, in which case dd will
output the data to stdout, from where it can be piped through gzip (or
another stream compression utility). But I'd need to look up the
required flags for gzip first.

> 
> Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)
> 
> tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt
> 
> does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?

Maybe. While dd operates on the raw disk file (e.g. /dev/sda, you
usually do NOT want /dev/sda1), tar takes all the files in the source
filesystem and puts them in an archive. This may save some space and
makes it easier to browse through the files, but it requires that you
partition and format a new disk before copying the archive back onto it.

So, depending on the use-case, I'd suggest one of those variants:

- If you want to create an exact clone of a drive and can connect both
the source and destination drive to your computer at the same time, then
use dd without compression and directly operating on the device files of
the two drives. I.e.
# dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M
Make *really, really* sure that you do not mess up if and of, as dd
otherwise will happily overwrite your source drive!

- If you want to create a backup image of an entire disk for later
copying to a fresh drive, use dd, maybe with the count flag and/or with
compression and store the output in a regular file somewhere convenient.

- If you want to create a backup of only one file system and want to get
easy access to the individual files, use the tar approach.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Philipp



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[Emc-users] R: Clone a HD

[Alex Chiosso]

Try to use Clonezilla. ;-)

- Messaggio originale -
Da: "John Thornton" 
Inviato: ‎20/‎02/‎2016 12:38
A: "EMC Mailing List" 
Oggetto: [Emc-users] Clone a HD

I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.

Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.

dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg

In this case what do they mean by mount?

Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)

tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt

does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?

Thanks
JT

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[Emc-users] Clone a HD

[John Thornton]

I see two ways to clone a HD on the web one using dd and one using tar.

Boot from the live cd. Mount your destination media to (say) /mnt.

dd if=/dev/sd whatever of=/mnt/mybackup.ddimg

In this case what do they mean by mount?

Mount the source to /mnt, mount the destination to /home (say)

tar cvfpz /home/mybackup.tar.gz   /mnt

does this tar create a copy of the whole disk?

Thanks
JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Marcus Bowman]

On 20 Feb 2016, at 09:29, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 20 February 2016 02:49:15 Marcus Bowman wrote:
> 
>> On 20 Feb 2016, at 02:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings all;
>>> 
>>> I am not haveing any luck finding one smaller than 3/8 radius, and I
>>> need one that cuts with a 1/8" radius.
>>> 
>>> Any body know of a place I might be able to source one that small?
>> 
>> Not sure where might be close to you, but I have one which I got at a
>> local wood turners' store. It is a 1/8inch gouge tool, but I made it
>> into something more like a fingernail tool by grinding. I just copied
>> the shape of one of my larger fingernail gouges. With a tool that
>> small in section, it needs support close to the cutting edge, because
>> I find mine prone to chatter unless the rest is set close in. I would
>> be inclined to fix it in a 5/8inch sleeve machined with a tapered
>> nose.
>> 
>> I can also highly recommend the Drozda Finial Gouge, which takes
>> things a stage further. Cuts beautifully when used by hand. You can
>> buy one here: http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/Tool_Info.html
>> 
>> but I bought the DVD which shows you how to make one (too far away for
>> the expensive carriage on the tool to make sense). There is a youTube
>> video around which shows much the same thing, I think. There used to
>> be a clip on the Drozda site, as I recall.
>> 
>> Marcus
> 
> But Marcus, I am not doing this by hand, or even on a wood lathe, this 
> would be a router bit, chucked in my milling machine, possibly making 
> multiple passes to get the correct edge profile.

Point taken; sorry.
So could you do this using a ball-nosed end mill?  Or could you reshape an end 
mill?


>  The workpiece is 
> clamped in a vise mounted on the table, jacked up to achieve the correct 
> tilt.
> 
> I considered making a planer/molder wheel of the type that uses 
> interchangeable knives, but I haven't come up with a planer/shaper blade 
> to do that either. Blank molding knives ISTR one could once buy, but the 
> grizzly catalog has none today. Worse comes to worse, I have some 1/2" x 
> 1/8" unhardened A2 but I am not set up to do the hardening.  That I can 
> shape with a 1/4" SC mill, lapping the face on a 12,000 grit water stone 
> to sharpen it but no idea if it could do 72 ends of these mahogany 
> things without several trips to the powered waterstone. At 1.75" radius 
> of knife holder, a single tooth at 2500 revs should do it, and I do have 
> the raw stuff on hand to make that.  

Sounds viable and would probably give you the same result as the end mill, but 
with fewer passes.

Marcus

> And the weather is looking good for 
> tomorrow too, so I won't freeze my feet.
> 
> I need 2 tilting vises, I hate disturbing the angle its set at right now 
> as its hard to restore exactly. No vernier drive on the tilt.  Cheap $60 
> Snears & Takeitback vise.  But it is solid.
> 
>>> A fingernail bit is not quite a beading bit as the ends of the
>>> cutters are at a 90 degree angle to each other, 45 degrees off axis
>>> for both upper and lower "wings".  I need to roundover the ends of
>>> these trim pieces, but do it in 3d by tipping the vise 45 degrees so
>>> the meeting line of two curves is horizontal and I can then cut a
>>> curve of the same radius as if a 1/8" roundover was used.  But since
>>> its two curves meeting, and LCNC can't cut a 3d curve, I don't see
>>> another way to do it without the fingernail style tool.
>>> 
> Thanks everybody.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting tool fingernail style need

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 February 2016 02:49:15 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> On 20 Feb 2016, at 02:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I am not haveing any luck finding one smaller than 3/8 radius, and I
> > need one that cuts with a 1/8" radius.
> >
> > Any body know of a place I might be able to source one that small?
>
> Not sure where might be close to you, but I have one which I got at a
> local wood turners' store. It is a 1/8inch gouge tool, but I made it
> into something more like a fingernail tool by grinding. I just copied
> the shape of one of my larger fingernail gouges. With a tool that
> small in section, it needs support close to the cutting edge, because
> I find mine prone to chatter unless the rest is set close in. I would
> be inclined to fix it in a 5/8inch sleeve machined with a tapered
> nose.
>
> I can also highly recommend the Drozda Finial Gouge, which takes
> things a stage further. Cuts beautifully when used by hand. You can
> buy one here: http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/Tool_Info.html
>
> but I bought the DVD which shows you how to make one (too far away for
> the expensive carriage on the tool to make sense). There is a youTube
> video around which shows much the same thing, I think. There used to
> be a clip on the Drozda site, as I recall.
>
> Marcus

But Marcus, I am not doing this by hand, or even on a wood lathe, this 
would be a router bit, chucked in my milling machine, possibly making 
multiple passes to get the correct edge profile.  The workpiece is 
clamped in a vise mounted on the table, jacked up to achieve the correct 
tilt.

I considered making a planer/molder wheel of the type that uses 
interchangeable knives, but I haven't come up with a planer/shaper blade 
to do that either. Blank molding knives ISTR one could once buy, but the 
grizzly catalog has none today. Worse comes to worse, I have some 1/2" x 
1/8" unhardened A2 but I am not set up to do the hardening.  That I can 
shape with a 1/4" SC mill, lapping the face on a 12,000 grit water stone 
to sharpen it but no idea if it could do 72 ends of these mahogany 
things without several trips to the powered waterstone. At 1.75" radius 
of knife holder, a single tooth at 2500 revs should do it, and I do have 
the raw stuff on hand to make that.  And the weather is looking good for 
tomorrow too, so I won't freeze my feet.

I need 2 tilting vises, I hate disturbing the angle its set at right now 
as its hard to restore exactly. No vernier drive on the tilt.  Cheap $60 
Snears & Takeitback vise.  But it is solid.

> > A fingernail bit is not quite a beading bit as the ends of the
> > cutters are at a 90 degree angle to each other, 45 degrees off axis
> > for both upper and lower "wings".  I need to roundover the ends of
> > these trim pieces, but do it in 3d by tipping the vise 45 degrees so
> > the meeting line of two curves is horizontal and I can then cut a
> > curve of the same radius as if a 1/8" roundover was used.  But since
> > its two curves meeting, and LCNC can't cut a 3d curve, I don't see
> > another way to do it without the fingernail style tool.
> >
Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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