Re: [Emc-users] Any Interest or Ideas for a Linuxcnc Fest 2016 ?

[Charles Steinkuehler]

Thanks!  I'm going to target being there around 8:30 AM give or take.

On 10/21/2016 6:53 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> I get there between 6:30 and 7.
> 
> On Oct 21, 2016 6:45 AM, "Charles Steinkuehler" 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/28/2016 6:07 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>> On 09/28/2016 04:36 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 On 8/22/2016 11:55 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 08/22/2016 10:35 AM, Ed wrote:
>>>
>> I haven't been paying attention to this. Is this the correct date?
>
> The plan is:
>
> Monday October 17 through Sunday October 23
> Helix Machine, 3434 West Harry, Wichita, Kansas
>
> It's going to be a rocking nerdy good time.

 Sounds great!  Is there any sort of tentative schedule?

 I'm trying to decide whether to come down Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun.
>>>
>>> I don't know about anyone else, but my schedule is:
>>>
>>> dawn-dusk every day: hack
>>> dusk-midnight: drink & goof off
>>>
>>> Looking forward to seeing you there!
>>
>> I'll be driving down Saturday morning.  I have a 2 hour drive, but
>> tend to wake up early (5AM).  Can someone let me know about what time
>> the shop will be open?
>>
>> --
>> Charles Steinkuehler
>> char...@steinkuehler.net
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] One of those $16 dollar questions...

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 21 October 2016 19:01:11 andy pugh wrote:

> On 21 October 2016 at 23:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Has anyone else come to the conclusion that these things need a 12
> > volt logic level?
>
> Yes. They even provide you with 12V to use.
>
Internally, without showing it on what is supposed to function as a 
wiring diagram.  I refuse to compliment that by calling it a schematic.

So that 12  volts stays internal and a function is enabled by using the 
opto to ground that terminal. 

So all I had to do was hook up a ground on the output side, and the fwd & 
rev terminals to the I0 and I1 output terminals on the 4 channel 
isolator board.  But the output leds did not tally the enabled state 
until I found some 5 volts from the wall wart powering the BoB, to feed 
the VCC terminal on the opto board.

This motor hits its nameplate FLA at around a 24 to 25 hz drive, but does 
take 20 minutes or so to be a hand warmer.  Going slower, the vfd 
apparently tracks the currant and holds it to about 4 amps, so while the 
torque is sliding down the toilet, motor temps remain hot, but never 
burn you hot.  Thats all no load of course.
 
> Though, normally, the inputs need to be grounded to be active.

Correct.  From the computer, its doing a direction swap at 50 hz drive 
that indicates I have some tuning to do, the hz fade needs to be faster 
to slow it quicker, and when the dc brakes come in, a little less 
currant as its then locked in a few millisecs.  Then it sits for 3 or 4 
secs, then starts doing a 2 stage acceleration thats also a bit violent, 
making the motor jump around on the table a bit at both points.

So this part gets taken apart after I get this opto kit bolted down, and 
hang the other, identical bob in there too, making copious notes so I 
can redo it in probably longer cable once I mount this box on the desk 
where I can get the door open and service it. I have the z motor to 
mount, belts to order, something to cover the x cable chain & keep some 
swarf out of it, make a shelf under the drawers to hold the vfd and 
computer, rig a monitor mount on the pipe the drum switch is on now, and 
some sort of a keyboard/mouse pan on some sort of a swivel so its up out 
of the swarf as well as can be when I'm not actually typing on it.

Progress I think...  My clock says 21:40, so it has to be beer-thirty. :)

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] One of those $16 dollar questions...

[Todd Zuercher]

No experience with your cheap Chinese VFDs but all the VFDs I've worked with 
used 12v (or higher) for the logic.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 6:27:33 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] One of those $16 dollar questions...

Greetings all;

Hooking up this phony vfd, I had run into a problem.

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that these things need a 12 volt 
logic level?

Currently I am feeding it a 10 kilohertz pwm, a rail to rail signal at 
about 4.95 volts swing, for the speed signal, and that works, running it 
from the minimum of 19.75 hz at the low end, and 120 hz at the high end.

But a 5 volt drive on either the fwd or the rev terminals is always fwd. 
No reverse.

The hookup diagram, such as it is, shows a row of external pushbuttons 
that only the fwd and d2/jog lines are fed 12 volts, so I am thinking 
that while they do not show a connection to the other 4 pushbuttons.  If 
thats the case, I should see 12 volts on all those terminals as a ground 
connection is the active state of the switches. And I hope I haven't 
blown the bob.  Sigh..

I've one spare conductor in the control cable, and a 4 channel 
opto-isolater that I can make look like the pushbuttons, so I am 
wondering if others have had to resort to high voltage logic to run one 
of these things?

I'll find out I guess, I'm just in to sit and rest my back and talk to 
anyone that will listen.

Thanks for reading, I'll report later so its part of the archive.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] One of those $16 dollar questions...

[andy pugh]

On 21 October 2016 at 23:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Has anyone else come to the conclusion that these things need a 12 volt
> logic level?

Yes. They even provide you with 12V to use.

Though, normally, the inputs need to be grounded to be active.

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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[Emc-users] One of those $16 dollar questions...

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Hooking up this phony vfd, I had run into a problem.

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that these things need a 12 volt 
logic level?

Currently I am feeding it a 10 kilohertz pwm, a rail to rail signal at 
about 4.95 volts swing, for the speed signal, and that works, running it 
from the minimum of 19.75 hz at the low end, and 120 hz at the high end.

But a 5 volt drive on either the fwd or the rev terminals is always fwd. 
No reverse.

The hookup diagram, such as it is, shows a row of external pushbuttons 
that only the fwd and d2/jog lines are fed 12 volts, so I am thinking 
that while they do not show a connection to the other 4 pushbuttons.  If 
thats the case, I should see 12 volts on all those terminals as a ground 
connection is the active state of the switches. And I hope I haven't 
blown the bob.  Sigh..

I've one spare conductor in the control cable, and a 4 channel 
opto-isolater that I can make look like the pushbuttons, so I am 
wondering if others have had to resort to high voltage logic to run one 
of these things?

I'll find out I guess, I'm just in to sit and rest my back and talk to 
anyone that will listen.

Thanks for reading, I'll report later so its part of the archive.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] New stepper-servo --> Phase delay

[dannym]

They put a Cortex M0 on the module that sits on the board, along with the 
stepper driver and encoder.

There's a greater latency inside the Cortex, it will likely have to respond to 
an interrupt thus have ISR latency.  I presume they've got a PLL to prevent 
oscillation within the final step.

It's not a bad case for an FPGA, since with proper coding the latency is 
limited by the response time of the transistors.

Danny


 Nicklas Karlsson  wrote: 
> Best option is probably to generate stepper signal from hardware timer.
> 
> 2016-10-21 8:17 GMT+02:00 Danny Miller :
> 
> > The SPI comm of course has latency within a comm period.
> >
> > However, the pulse output must be super-fast.  It supports up to 14500
> > rpm, so if it's 2000steps/rev the whole step cycle is 2ms, realistically
> > like maybe 1/4 of that for latency?
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > On 10/19/2016 11:34 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > >>> ... The lag also seemed to vary with velocity.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Most specifically, it was a lag in the encoder's loop to respond to
> > >> acceleration.
> > >> Velocity was fine, but when there is acceleration, the encoder's
> > >> velocity didn't change for a few milliseconds, then it had to produce
> > >> velocity greater than real for position to catch up.
> > >> I thought it was a really severe problem, but it seems it may not be all
> > >> that bad.  But, it can make servo tuning more tricky.
> > >>
> > >> Jon
> > > Delay is called phase in control theory and it is not good at all for
> > fast response.
> > >
> > > 
> > --
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> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
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Re: [Emc-users] Any Interest or Ideas for a Linuxcnc Fest 2016 ?

[Stuart Stevenson]

I get there between 6:30 and 7.

On Oct 21, 2016 6:45 AM, "Charles Steinkuehler" 
wrote:

> On 9/28/2016 6:07 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> > On 09/28/2016 04:36 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
> >> On 8/22/2016 11:55 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >>> On 08/22/2016 10:35 AM, Ed wrote:
> >
>  I haven't been paying attention to this. Is this the correct date?
> >>>
> >>> The plan is:
> >>>
> >>> Monday October 17 through Sunday October 23
> >>> Helix Machine, 3434 West Harry, Wichita, Kansas
> >>>
> >>> It's going to be a rocking nerdy good time.
> >>
> >> Sounds great!  Is there any sort of tentative schedule?
> >>
> >> I'm trying to decide whether to come down Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun.
> >
> > I don't know about anyone else, but my schedule is:
> >
> > dawn-dusk every day: hack
> > dusk-midnight: drink & goof off
> >
> > Looking forward to seeing you there!
>
> I'll be driving down Saturday morning.  I have a 2 hour drive, but
> tend to wake up early (5AM).  Can someone let me know about what time
> the shop will be open?
>
> --
> Charles Steinkuehler
> char...@steinkuehler.net
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Any Interest or Ideas for a Linuxcnc Fest 2016 ?

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 9/28/2016 6:07 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 09/28/2016 04:36 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
>> On 8/22/2016 11:55 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>> On 08/22/2016 10:35 AM, Ed wrote:
>
 I haven't been paying attention to this. Is this the correct date?
>>>
>>> The plan is:
>>>
>>> Monday October 17 through Sunday October 23
>>> Helix Machine, 3434 West Harry, Wichita, Kansas
>>>
>>> It's going to be a rocking nerdy good time.
>>
>> Sounds great!  Is there any sort of tentative schedule?
>>
>> I'm trying to decide whether to come down Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but my schedule is:
> 
> dawn-dusk every day: hack
> dusk-midnight: drink & goof off
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you there!

I'll be driving down Saturday morning.  I have a 2 hour drive, but
tend to wake up early (5AM).  Can someone let me know about what time
the shop will be open?

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net



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Re: [Emc-users] New stepper-servo --> Phase delay

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Best option is probably to generate stepper signal from hardware timer.

2016-10-21 8:17 GMT+02:00 Danny Miller :

> The SPI comm of course has latency within a comm period.
>
> However, the pulse output must be super-fast.  It supports up to 14500
> rpm, so if it's 2000steps/rev the whole step cycle is 2ms, realistically
> like maybe 1/4 of that for latency?
>
> Danny
>
> On 10/19/2016 11:34 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >>> ... The lag also seemed to vary with velocity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Most specifically, it was a lag in the encoder's loop to respond to
> >> acceleration.
> >> Velocity was fine, but when there is acceleration, the encoder's
> >> velocity didn't change for a few milliseconds, then it had to produce
> >> velocity greater than real for position to catch up.
> >> I thought it was a really severe problem, but it seems it may not be all
> >> that bad.  But, it can make servo tuning more tricky.
> >>
> >> Jon
> > Delay is called phase in control theory and it is not good at all for
> fast response.
> >
> > 
> --
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> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Compiling emc2 sim on leap 64bit (Sebastian Kuzminsky)

[Joop Goedbloed]

On 10/19/2016 10:20 AM, Joop Goedbloed wrote:

> For testing I'am trying to compile emc2 2.4.6 simulating on opensuse
> leap 42.1.
>
> get a linking error lke this:
> Linking xemc
> /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.8/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
> objects/emc/usr_intf/xemc.o: undefined reference to symbol 'XtAddCallback'
> /usr/lib64/libXt.so.6: error adding symbols: DSO missing from command line
> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
> emc/usr_intf/Submakefile:90: recept voor doel '../bin/xemc' is mislukt
> make: *** [../bin/xemc] Fout 1
> make: Map '/home/joop/emc3/emc2-dev/src' wordt verlaten
> joop@linux-mt69:~/emc3/emc2-dev/src>
>
> what is wrong
I don't know about OpenSuse 42.1, but on my machine (Debian Stretch),
that symbol (XtAddCallback) is supplied by libXt.so, supplied by the
debian package named libxt, version 1.1.5.  Do you have that library
installed?

We had a bug in the build system of some older versions of LinuxCNC
where it would place the command-line arguments to the linker in the
wrong order, and sometimes fail to find symbols supplied by some of the
libraries.  Can you try LinuxCNC 2.7 and see if this fixes your problem?

Problem solved

Got the latest version 2.8,pre1 from git

This version build fine op opensuse leap 42.1

Thanks

Joop Goedbloed
-- Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] New stepper-servo --> Phase delay

[Danny Miller]

The SPI comm of course has latency within a comm period.

However, the pulse output must be super-fast.  It supports up to 14500 
rpm, so if it's 2000steps/rev the whole step cycle is 2ms, realistically 
like maybe 1/4 of that for latency?

Danny

On 10/19/2016 11:34 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> ... The lag also seemed to vary with velocity.
>>>
>>>
>> Most specifically, it was a lag in the encoder's loop to respond to
>> acceleration.
>> Velocity was fine, but when there is acceleration, the encoder's
>> velocity didn't change for a few milliseconds, then it had to produce
>> velocity greater than real for position to catch up.
>> I thought it was a really severe problem, but it seems it may not be all
>> that bad.  But, it can make servo tuning more tricky.
>>
>> Jon
> Delay is called phase in control theory and it is not good at all for fast 
> response.
>
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