[Emc-users] Subject: Re: Gui Feature Request

[Greg Bentzinger]

Okuma has had this feature going back to the time when the tape reader would 
rewind, then read through a punch tape to find the named program.

They called this type a "Schedule" program and it had a file type of something 
like .skd or some such. In later CNC controls (OSP3000 or later (late 70's 
early 80's)) this feature was normally used with the tool management option 
which tracked each tools actual cutting time and would "replace" the tool with 
its designated spare once the allotted cut time had expired. So even though 
your program called tool #2 the machine would call #20 and used the H & D 
values for #20 until you reset the tool management for tool #2.

If you are PROPERLY utilizing the tool table and work coordinate offsets there 
is no reason why you can't run several different programs back to back sharing 
the same tools in the ATC without any issues.

Often the limiting factors are work area real estate and the capacity of your 
ATC. I have been lucky in that most machines I have had to program multiple 
concurrent jobs on have been big enough. The Okuma MC4-VAE-HS had a 32 tool 
ATC, The Mori Seiki SV50 had 30 and the Kitamura HX400 had 50. The HX400 also 
had like 106 Work shift offsets.

While this starts going off topic - In the real world of factory production, 
labor and machines are only earning there keep when the spindles are running. 
This means that everything that can be done without interfering with that goal 
is done. Running the HX400 I was the primary operator, with a assistant. 
Loading and unloading two 4 sided tombstones while the machine was running and 
doing in process inspection and QC took every spare second. We took staggered 
breaks. Tools would be mounted up in the CAT40 holders and offsets determained 
by a Mititoyo CMM. A program would be generated that was nothing but a long 
list of G10's and that program was on a floppy disk that was put in a pocket on 
the tool cart with a printout telling the operator which tool went in each ATC 
pocket. Often the ATC magazine loading was done while the machine was running.

Labor costs (and shop floor real estate) are high in first world countries. To 
stay competitive manufacturing applies technology as much as is practical to 
maintain high output and efficiency.

Greg, out yonder in Yoder, CO.

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Re: [Emc-users] Announce about dial jogging

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 28 April 2017 15:49:11 Chris Albertson wrote:

> That is good news.
>
> BTW I ran across another version of that jog dial.  One of them in a
> pre-built housing.  More money but less work
> ...ebay.com/itm/Universal-CNC-4-Axis-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Emergency-S
>top...
> ergency-Stop-for-Siemens-In-US-/232181395804?hash=item360f16f15c:g:omQA
>AOSw2xRYWjrU>
>
> I'm still going DIY route as I want an LCD display on the pendent too.
>

Just for the DRO, or fawncier yet, Chris?

I thought about that, but decided the on-screen DRO was good enough since 
both of my dials are on the replacement apron plate and lcd down on the 
apron seems out of the normal view.  Theres the matter of the r-pi's 
limited horsepower too. Being stuck with limited color framebuffer video 
sucks, but the big drag is the mouse usually needs 2 clicks to recognize 
one.  htop says it is not working that hard though.

I have a cover of sorts made to hide the x ball screw & keep 99% of the 
swarf out of it, some 10 thou SS shimstock covers it nicely. It was 
uncovered a wee bit behind the slider when it was moved in to nominally 
centerline. So after home switches, the next thing may be a 3d printer 
so I can make swarf covers over the drive belt for the x axis.  Looking 
for one thats pellet fed as thats about 20% of the cost of an equal 
poundage of plastic string. Found one but gotta figure out how much 
1.75mm string I can buy for the diff in machine cost.  I get the 
impression pellet fed is faster because its a more rigid frame for the 
heavier printhead. But with zero experience for comparison, it may be 
wishfull thinking on my part.  It would be plowing new ground for me in 
any event.  And my plow is getting duller as the years creep by.

> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I found my logic mistake, a # in the wrong place.  Then I finished
> > hooking it up to motion for actual movements.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Todd Zuercher]

Yes I was going to at the minimum put print or msg comments in the files, but 
if the Que Gui could handle it, or add to it that might be better.

Things I would like to express to the operator would be, Material descriptions 
(Size and Type), Fixturing instructions, Tools used, Total # of parts needed, 
and # completed or to go.

Some kind of attention getter at Job changes would be a good idea.


- Original Message -
From: "Chris Albertson" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 2:40:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Kurt Jacobson 
wrote:

> Todd,
> A job que is an interesting idea and I can see were it would be useful. I
> am working on a new GUI and I have been thinking of all the interesting
> things to eventually add to make it more useful, I will keep this in mind
> and start thinking about how to implement it.
>

If the queue contains jobs that are not identical.  There needs to be some
BIG warning that the tooling needs to be set up for the next upcoming job.
I can just see making 8 identical parts and all the operator does in
swap in new material and then the operator sets up a 9th ruins and the
program is different and the tool crashes into the clamps.

It is easy to ignore warnings after 8 or 10 unimportant ones when the next
one is important.




>
> Another idea I have in mind is the ability to have multiple tooltables, one
> for each job. Then all you would have to do to change jobs it is load the
> right tools into the tool-changer (or load the right tool tray if you are
> lucky enough to have a machine with one) select the right tooltable and go.
>
> Cheers,
> Kurt
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:48 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On 28 April 2017 at 16:42, Todd  Zuercher
> >  wrote:
> > > How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's
> > GUIs? Or maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI?
> >
> > It would probably be fairly easy to add as a new Python mini-GUI.
> >
> > You can already achieve much the same thing by converting the part
> > files to subs and calling them from another file using Onnn REPEAT.
> >
> > If the files are of the form
> >
> > example.ngc
> >
> > O# CALL
> > O # SUB
> > G1 X1
> > O # ENDSUB
> >
> > Then you can run it either as a normal G-code file, or as a subroutine.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] Announce about dial jogging

[Chris Albertson]

That is good news.

BTW I ran across another version of that jog dial.  One of them in a
pre-built housing.  More money but less work
...ebay.com/itm/Universal-CNC-4-Axis-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Emergency-Stop...


I'm still going DIY route as I want an LCD display on the pendent too.





On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I found my logic mistake, a # in the wrong place.  Then I finished
> hooking it up to motion for actual movements.
>
>
-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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[Emc-users] Announce about dial jogging

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I found my logic mistake, a # in the wrong place.  Then I finished 
hooking it up to motion for actual movements.

I can now enable the jog dial, touch off that axis, punch the button to 
bring it to life, and twist the dial back and forth better than half a 
turn for at least 30 seconds, bringing the dial back to the zero mark at 
the end, look up and the video DRO is again sitting on 0., for 
either axis.  4 seconds after the dial stops, it is disabled until a new 
cycle is started by pressing the button again.

Needless to say, I'm a happy camper!

Anybody else interested?  I'll copy that config to my web page, but 
haven't yet.  Yelp if you need it. It _still_ doesn't have any home 
switches hooked up.  I promise thats next. :)

But I went back out to do that, reached into a storage drawer that had a 
teeny pill bottle in it, with the x home switch and a mount bracket for 
it in it, only to find that about a thousand small resistors in a heavy 
duty sandwich bag, and a much bigger bag of 6800 uf, 65 volt capacitors 
was gone.  And never found the pill bottle either.  And there is no one 
in this neighborhood who would have the foggiest idea what either bags 
contents were actually for.  Still scratching my head on this.  If they 
came in and grabbed them out of that drawer, they knew exactly what they 
wanted, and walked right on by quite a pile of far more expensive stuff.  
And that makes no sense at all.

Must be time I round up the key for the back door, and put one of those 
we don't call 911 signs on it. And an x10 motion detector.  Heyu is 
running and logging everything, but theres nothing in the garage to send 
to the logs.  Gotta fix that. 28 years here, and only one electric drill 
has gone missing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Todd Zuercher]

- Original Message -
> From: "andy pugh" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:48:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request
> 
> On 28 April 2017 at 16:42, Todd  Zuercher
>  wrote:
> > How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's
> > GUIs? Or maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI?
> 
> It would probably be fairly easy to add as a new Python mini-GUI.
> 
> You can already achieve much the same thing by converting the part
> files to subs and calling them from another file using Onnn REPEAT.
> 
> If the files are of the form
> 
> example.ngc
> 
> O# CALL
> O # SUB
> G1 X1
> O # ENDSUB
> 
> Then you can run it either as a normal G-code file, or as a
> subroutine.
> 
> --
> atp

The problem as running the files as a series of subs in a master program, is 
the complications of interruptions, and modifications of the que once started.

This is intended for a supervisor to be able to setup 1 or 2 shifts worth of 
custom work for the factory drones to do when he's away (in bed sleeping).

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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Kurt Jacobson 
wrote:

> Todd,
> A job que is an interesting idea and I can see were it would be useful. I
> am working on a new GUI and I have been thinking of all the interesting
> things to eventually add to make it more useful, I will keep this in mind
> and start thinking about how to implement it.
>

If the queue contains jobs that are not identical.  There needs to be some
BIG warning that the tooling needs to be set up for the next upcoming job.
I can just see making 8 identical parts and all the operator does in
swap in new material and then the operator sets up a 9th ruins and the
program is different and the tool crashes into the clamps.

It is easy to ignore warnings after 8 or 10 unimportant ones when the next
one is important.




>
> Another idea I have in mind is the ability to have multiple tooltables, one
> for each job. Then all you would have to do to change jobs it is load the
> right tools into the tool-changer (or load the right tool tray if you are
> lucky enough to have a machine with one) select the right tooltable and go.
>
> Cheers,
> Kurt
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:48 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On 28 April 2017 at 16:42, Todd  Zuercher
> >  wrote:
> > > How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's
> > GUIs? Or maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI?
> >
> > It would probably be fairly easy to add as a new Python mini-GUI.
> >
> > You can already achieve much the same thing by converting the part
> > files to subs and calling them from another file using Onnn REPEAT.
> >
> > If the files are of the form
> >
> > example.ngc
> >
> > O# CALL
> > O # SUB
> > G1 X1
> > O # ENDSUB
> >
> > Then you can run it either as a normal G-code file, or as a subroutine.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> --
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-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Nicklas Karlsson]

You want something that run one g-code file, the next one and so on?

It should probably not be to hard. Do you have any idea if this kind of thing 
is available in some other machines/languages so syntax could be reused? Or 
protocol for remote control of machine: like this, tell robot to put part in 
machine, tell machine to execute a particular g-code file?


On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:42:27 -0400 (EDT)
"Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:

> How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's GUIs? Or 
> maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI? 
> 
> What I am interested in is a "Job Que". Where you would create a list of 
> "Jobs", each "Job" would consist of the file to be ran, and how many runs of 
> that file to do. The GUI would need to keep track of how many times the job 
> file was executed, then move to the next job in the que when the specified 
> number of runs is compleated. Other nice features would be the ability user 
> to increment the number of runs completed up or down if say, a file run had 
> to be repeated because of a bad run, or to cancel or rerun a job if need be. 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  
> 
> Todd Zuercher 
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 
> 
>  
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] A Tee-shirt for Skunkworks

[John Figie]

I live in Milwaukee (suburb) and know someone that worked for K&T.  So I
think that is cool.

On Apr 28, 2017 4:22 AM, "andy pugh"  wrote:

> http://machinistlife.com/product/kearney-trecker-
> milwaukee-milling-machines-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Eric H. Johnson]

Todd,

Not that it is a solution, but there is actually some long dormant code
doing much of what you request; see this folder:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/src/emc/usr_intf

Specifically emcsched and schedrmt, where emcsched is the scheduler and
schedrmt is a telnet like interface patterned after that used by linuxcncrsh
(see usage at top of schedrmt.cc).  

I wrote this years ago when working on an application to deal with large
numbers of very small parts (jewelrey). That project ended up getting
abandoned, so I never ended up implementing the GUI side of the scheduler.

Note: Running multiple instances of the same job would simply require
multiple entries in the job queue.

Regards,
Eric


How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's GUIs? Or
maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI? 

What I am interested in is a "Job Que". Where you would create a list of
"Jobs", each "Job" would consist of the file to be ran, and how many runs of
that file to do. The GUI would need to keep track of how many times the job
file was executed, then move to the next job in the que when the specified
number of runs is compleated. Other nice features would be the ability user
to increment the number of runs completed up or down if say, a file run had
to be repeated because of a bad run, or to cancel or rerun a job if need be.


-- 

 

Todd Zuercher
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 



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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Kurt Jacobson]

Todd,
A job que is an interesting idea and I can see were it would be useful. I
am working on a new GUI and I have been thinking of all the interesting
things to eventually add to make it more useful, I will keep this in mind
and start thinking about how to implement it.

Another idea I have in mind is the ability to have multiple tooltables, one
for each job. Then all you would have to do to change jobs it is load the
right tools into the tool-changer (or load the right tool tray if you are
lucky enough to have a machine with one) select the right tooltable and go.

Cheers,
Kurt

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:48 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 28 April 2017 at 16:42, Todd  Zuercher
>  wrote:
> > How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's
> GUIs? Or maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI?
>
> It would probably be fairly easy to add as a new Python mini-GUI.
>
> You can already achieve much the same thing by converting the part
> files to subs and calling them from another file using Onnn REPEAT.
>
> If the files are of the form
>
> example.ngc
>
> O# CALL
> O # SUB
> G1 X1
> O # ENDSUB
>
> Then you can run it either as a normal G-code file, or as a subroutine.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[andy pugh]

On 28 April 2017 at 16:42, Todd  Zuercher
 wrote:
> How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's GUIs? Or 
> maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI?

It would probably be fairly easy to add as a new Python mini-GUI.

You can already achieve much the same thing by converting the part
files to subs and calling them from another file using Onnn REPEAT.

If the files are of the form

example.ngc

O# CALL
O # SUB
G1 X1
O # ENDSUB

Then you can run it either as a normal G-code file, or as a subroutine.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] OT Cool Tool

[Chris Albertson]

Looks good for what it is  (you have to understand what it is and what it
is not.)

The specs on the scope or pretty low end compared to even an entry level
"real" scope.This device only as 100M samples per sec and 30 MHz
bandwidth where as a $300 DSO from Rigol has 100MHz bandwidth and 1G
samples per sec.  The Sample/sec spec really DOES matter especially off
you are using multiple channels as that sampling rate is the TOTAL rate not
the per channel rate.Even 1G/sec is low for a 16 channel scope

This device would be very useful if you do mostly audio work or need to
decode a serial I2C or SPI bus  or if you are looking at PWM and machine
control signals that never really go above 1MHz

But notice there is no way to hook up a real scope probe.  You are NOT
going to get clear signal into the box unless you can connect a 10X probe.
Mini grabber hookups are not scope probes.  They are OK for logic signals
but not analog.So notice how short they are, there is a reason for that.

Also notice there is no vertical amplifier/attenuator on the box like you'd
find on "real" scope.   So you might not have good sensitivity for
millivolt level signal and can't connect high volt signals (like the ones
going into motors)  The input range is small.BUT you can build
something to condition the signals even as simple as a voltage divider and
denier diode clamp. to allow a 100 volt range.

That said, looks to be worth it IF you like the software and it looks like
you can download and try out the software BEFORE you buy the hardware.

There are competing products but this look like one of the best in its
class,  Saleae has an 8 input unit for a little less, and 16 inputs with
500M sample/sec for more $
and ee101.com has something too that looked good.
Depends on what you want to do mostly  There are LOTS of these out there.
Tis unit is not bad for low speed logical level stuff, debugging firmware
and such.

I ended up with a Rigol D1000z scope, has four analog channels and 1G/sec
samples and can move sample data to PC over Ethernet if needed and with my
100x scope probe I can directly and safely connect to the insides of one of
my vacuum tube amplifies with 600 volts inside.Oh and I bought a  a
Saleae clone on eBay for $12 that works well for low speed logic level
signals.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Jim Craig 
wrote:

> Thought you all might be interested in this cool little tool. I might
> have to add one to the toolbox.
>
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13929
>
> Let me know your thoughts.
>
> Jim
>
>
> 
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Redondo Beach, California
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[Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[Todd Zuercher]

How hard would it be to add this feature to Linuxcnc or one of it's GUIs? Or 
maybe this would need to be a whole new GUI? 

What I am interested in is a "Job Que". Where you would create a list of 
"Jobs", each "Job" would consist of the file to be ran, and how many runs of 
that file to do. The GUI would need to keep track of how many times the job 
file was executed, then move to the next job in the que when the specified 
number of runs is compleated. Other nice features would be the ability user to 
increment the number of runs completed up or down if say, a file run had to be 
repeated because of a bad run, or to cancel or rerun a job if need be. 

-- 

 

Todd Zuercher 
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT Cool Tool

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 28 April 2017 10:38:11 Jim Craig wrote:

> Thought you all might be interested in this cool little tool. I might
> have to add one to the toolbox.
>
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13929
>
> Let me know your thoughts.
>
> Jim
>
Its rather cute, Jim, but for me I see 2 problems, both of which keep the 
card in the rfi case.  Either or both might be showstoppers for you too.

BW limited to 30MHz. I have noises that extend to well above 100MHz to 
deal with.

The usb connection for power and ground probably is a ground loop, so it 
will lie to you in strange ways.

But if it has supply and ground isolation, its quite a decent toy for 
troubleshooting servo systems. The lack of bandwidth would make it less 
than usefull for studying stepper systems.

Trade the usb interface for a POE ethernet connection and it would be 
much more usefull because that would probably open the ground loop paths 
quite decently.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT Cool Tool

[andy pugh]

On 28 April 2017 at 15:44, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
> Looks like an equivalent to the Bitscope I bought a good part of a
> decade ago ... for about US$750.

And seems moderately expensive compared to the Picoscopes.
https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/2000/picoscope-2000-overview

(Not to be confused with Pico-systems)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] OT Cool Tool

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.04.17 09:38, Jim Craig wrote:
> Thought you all might be interested in this cool little tool. I might 
> have to add one to the toolbox.
> 
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13929
> 
> Let me know your thoughts.

Looks like an equivalent to the Bitscope I bought a good part of a
decade ago ... for about US$750.

Erik

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[Emc-users] OT Cool Tool

[Jim Craig]

Thought you all might be interested in this cool little tool. I might 
have to add one to the toolbox.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13929

Let me know your thoughts.

Jim


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Re: [Emc-users] A Tee-shirt for Skunkworks

[sam sokolik]

That is awesome!  It just needs to say 'milwaukee-matic' on the back :)

sam

On 4/28/2017 4:14 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> http://machinistlife.com/product/kearney-trecker-milwaukee-milling-machines-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] A Tee-shirt for Skunkworks

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 28 April 2017 05:14:48 andy pugh wrote:

> http://machinistlife.com/product/kearney-trecker-milwaukee-milling-mac
>hines-short-sleeve-t-shirt/

Prices about 40% out of line. I've quite a collection of logo'd T & polo 
shirts, and don't think I have more than a $20 in any of them. Most have 
either UHK (University of Hard Knocks, I've a degree from there), 
company giveaways at trade shows like the NAB, various logo's or 2nd 
amendment related, with a few comix thrown in.  I like those that "make 
a statement", and if PETA gets bent its even better. :) My fav is sort 
of a lie since I haven't worked by the hour since around 1970, looked 
like a rag when I bought it, has "Don't rush me, I get paid by the hour" 
in a stencil font on the front. Been trying to wear it out for years, 
but for a K-Mart T, its wearing well yet today and its pushing 15 years 
old.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] A Tee-shirt for Skunkworks

[andy pugh]

http://machinistlife.com/product/kearney-trecker-milwaukee-milling-machines-short-sleeve-t-shirt/


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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