[Emc-users] Spindle Motors

[John Dammeyer]

Is something like this equivalent to a single phase 220VAC 2HP motor?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/122137567723

Just thinking of how I'll add variable speed to my mill.  Would it even need
a reduction set of pulleys or is 1:1 adequate?  If the bearings can handle
it a belt ratio of 1:2 to get 6000 RPM?

Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

These will be here late next week
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 15:31 John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> So would I suggest it as a usable drive?  Yes.  Is it possible to get one
> with that output current?  Not sure the driver chip was discontinued and I
> know they are working on a Rev 2 but I don't know when that will happen.
>
> John
>
>
> Thank you for the assessment john
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: jeremy youngs [mailto:jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-25-18 11:05 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.
> >
> > On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:16 John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  I'm also fortunate enough to
> > > have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL
> drive..
> > >
> >
> > How do you like the stmbl? And what was your build cost ? If I get this
> six
> > horse bldc for my spindle I need 37 amps peak at 230 , I understand
> that's
> > feasible with this drive , my level of electronics skill I am certain
> will
> > be taxed at best .
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[John Dammeyer]

I was one of the early assemblers of the kits that Andy sent out.  Since I'm
using step/dir for it there were some firmware bug updates happening and one
really great upgrade that makes it easier in the long run to update firmware
on both boards.   

The STMBL is not targeted with step/dir as the primary control so the
interface is RS485 for each of the step,dir and enable signals.  I had to
breadboard up a small level translation module to deal with that.
Apparently it's possible to use one of the other headers with I believe 3.3V
logic but I really didn't like that idea.  I would have preferred optical
isolated inputs.

But otherwise,  the motor behaved as expected using my ELS as a step/dir
generator.  Even with the little grumbles I can honestly say I really like
the STMBL.  And the support from Rene's group and from Andy has been
terrific.

So would I suggest it as a usable drive?  Yes.  Is it possible to get one
with that output current?  Not sure the driver chip was discontinued and I
know they are working on a Rev 2 but I don't know when that will happen.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: jeremy youngs [mailto:jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-25-18 11:05 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.
> 
> On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:16 John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >  I'm also fortunate enough to
> > have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL drive..
> >
> 
> How do you like the stmbl? And what was your build cost ? If I get this
six
> horse bldc for my spindle I need 37 amps peak at 230 , I understand that's
> feasible with this drive , my level of electronics skill I am certain will
> be taxed at best .
> 
> >
> >
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 07:01 Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 25 May 2018 02:24:57 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
> > These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
> > programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them
> > I can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial
> > mount . I will call them tomorrow .
> >
> > https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%
> >252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d Any thoughts? Seems like a
> > good solution , for a stocking part a fella could even keep a couple
> > to gather dust .
>
> Thats about the same price as the Omron, and it uses the motors bearings
> and fits the tailshaft, so it mounts much more compactly than the Omron.
> But the Omron has its own bearings making it totally selfcontained. But
> in close proximity to the motors magnetic field, the index may not work.
> And they are out of stock till the 2nd week of June, more delay than
> ebay/omron, by a week maybe.
>
> Digikey has them in stock, I gave the wrong link , I'm going to pull the
> trigger on this as it's easier to modify my shaft if necessary than it is
> to adapt the omron, I will give report when I get them.
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:16 John Dammeyer  wrote:

>  I'm also fortunate enough to
> have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL drive..
>

How do you like the stmbl? And what was your build cost ? If I get this six
horse bldc for my spindle I need 37 amps peak at 230 , I understand that's
feasible with this drive , my level of electronics skill I am certain will
be taxed at best .

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[Ken Strauss]

For a nicely done rotary table/stepper configuration see
http://www.mandalaroseworks.com/product/stepper_relocation

The Phase-II rotary table (6-inch) is not bad quality and was occasionally
on sale at Enco. No idea where to get one cheap now.

I would love a low-profile tilting table for use with my 6-inch 4th axis.
Any thoughts on the, currently out of stock, Grizzly T10221? Suggestions for
a cheaper and available alternative?

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 12:48 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.
>
> On Friday 25 May 2018 08:41:42 TERRY Christophersen wrote:
>
> > Table toward you and to the left is machine home.
> > 4th axis on the right hand side of the table.
> > This is how most machines are.
> >
> Which direction/angle is the motor sticking out? Any direct drive to the
> drive worm is an un-handy direction, so in order to clear stuff, my
> little table has to be on the left, so the drive motor projects at a 45
> degree angle up and to the front.  Its a piece of India made 4" junk.
> Handy for facing bolt head flats, or for drilling and tapping for the
> grub screws for these tap hats I am making 2 or 3 a day, but useless for
> cutting sprockets or gears. Backlash is measured in degrees, and varies
> because the bull gear is off center.
>
> I needed a special drill while installing the safety railing for the
> wheelchair ramp, so I made a 3 fluter I had to re-sharpen several times
> with it, but since the cutting forces were into it axially, I had to put
> the air hose rigged to pressurize the internals, exerting a lifting
> force to the table so a 270 oz/in nema 23 could turn it to do the
> spiral.
>
> If I could find a 5" that was really precise, and whose worm shaft was
> horizontal and high enough to leave room for the motor to clear the
> table, I likely would have laid the card on the counter years ago. Those
> 5" all angle tilting head things look good, until I ask myself can the
> motor turn it under cutting loads, You can using the indexing plates,
> lock it in any position, but can they move while a 1/4" round nose is
> carving the workpiece?
>
> My mental SWAG says no.
>
> So an almost too big for a G0704 6" table, with the motor on a swing
> mount so it can belt drive the worm with a 3/1 multiplier, while the
> motor mount can be turned to place a nema 34 to its left, bottom side
> when mounted vertical, or rotated so its beside the table when mounted
> face up. But thats going to be 40+ lbs for this old fart to handle, I've
> not ever seen one so rigged, but I can sure "make it so."  That is what
> we do here I think.
>
> I've got to, this one is an excedrin headache, and a fairly low numbered
> one at that. So who makes the best 6" for raw material? Preferably NOT
> made in India.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[John Dammeyer]

Although I have a tiny 4" table with a stepper, I'm also fortunate enough to
have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL drive..
When I finally get around to casting the holder it will be tall enough to
hold a 10" face plate but no wider than the mill table.

I am eventually planning on a tool changer since I have a number of TT
holders but I don't expect it to be in the way for homing.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: May-25-18 9:48 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.
> 
> On Friday 25 May 2018 08:41:42 TERRY Christophersen wrote:
> 
> > Table toward you and to the left is machine home.
> > 4th axis on the right hand side of the table.
> > This is how most machines are.
> >
> Which direction/angle is the motor sticking out? Any direct drive to the
> drive worm is an un-handy direction, so in order to clear stuff, my
> little table has to be on the left, so the drive motor projects at a 45
> degree angle up and to the front.  Its a piece of India made 4" junk.
> Handy for facing bolt head flats, or for drilling and tapping for the
> grub screws for these tap hats I am making 2 or 3 a day, but useless for
> cutting sprockets or gears. Backlash is measured in degrees, and varies
> because the bull gear is off center.
> 
> I needed a special drill while installing the safety railing for the
> wheelchair ramp, so I made a 3 fluter I had to re-sharpen several times
> with it, but since the cutting forces were into it axially, I had to put
> the air hose rigged to pressurize the internals, exerting a lifting
> force to the table so a 270 oz/in nema 23 could turn it to do the
> spiral.
> 
> If I could find a 5" that was really precise, and whose worm shaft was
> horizontal and high enough to leave room for the motor to clear the
> table, I likely would have laid the card on the counter years ago. Those
> 5" all angle tilting head things look good, until I ask myself can the
> motor turn it under cutting loads, You can using the indexing plates,
> lock it in any position, but can they move while a 1/4" round nose is
> carving the workpiece?
> 
> My mental SWAG says no.
> 
> So an almost too big for a G0704 6" table, with the motor on a swing
> mount so it can belt drive the worm with a 3/1 multiplier, while the
> motor mount can be turned to place a nema 34 to its left, bottom side
> when mounted vertical, or rotated so its beside the table when mounted
> face up. But thats going to be 40+ lbs for this old fart to handle, I've
> not ever seen one so rigged, but I can sure "make it so."  That is what
> we do here I think.
> 
> I've got to, this one is an excedrin headache, and a fairly low numbered
> one at that. So who makes the best 6" for raw material? Preferably NOT
> made in India.
> 
> [...]
> 
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 25 May 2018 08:41:42 TERRY Christophersen wrote:

> Table toward you and to the left is machine home.
> 4th axis on the right hand side of the table.
> This is how most machines are.
>
Which direction/angle is the motor sticking out? Any direct drive to the 
drive worm is an un-handy direction, so in order to clear stuff, my 
little table has to be on the left, so the drive motor projects at a 45 
degree angle up and to the front.  Its a piece of India made 4" junk. 
Handy for facing bolt head flats, or for drilling and tapping for the 
grub screws for these tap hats I am making 2 or 3 a day, but useless for 
cutting sprockets or gears. Backlash is measured in degrees, and varies 
because the bull gear is off center.

I needed a special drill while installing the safety railing for the 
wheelchair ramp, so I made a 3 fluter I had to re-sharpen several times 
with it, but since the cutting forces were into it axially, I had to put 
the air hose rigged to pressurize the internals, exerting a lifting 
force to the table so a 270 oz/in nema 23 could turn it to do the 
spiral.

If I could find a 5" that was really precise, and whose worm shaft was 
horizontal and high enough to leave room for the motor to clear the 
table, I likely would have laid the card on the counter years ago. Those 
5" all angle tilting head things look good, until I ask myself can the 
motor turn it under cutting loads, You can using the indexing plates, 
lock it in any position, but can they move while a 1/4" round nose is 
carving the workpiece?

My mental SWAG says no.

So an almost too big for a G0704 6" table, with the motor on a swing 
mount so it can belt drive the worm with a 3/1 multiplier, while the 
motor mount can be turned to place a nema 34 to its left, bottom side 
when mounted vertical, or rotated so its beside the table when mounted 
face up. But thats going to be 40+ lbs for this old fart to handle, I've 
not ever seen one so rigged, but I can sure "make it so."  That is what 
we do here I think.

I've got to, this one is an excedrin headache, and a fairly low numbered 
one at that. So who makes the best 6" for raw material? Preferably NOT 
made in India.

[...]

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[Jon Elson]

On 05/24/2018 11:01 PM, jeremy youngs wrote:
I would suspect a Julian date code of day of the year i.e 
264 then a year specifier , i.e. 2649 being the 264 day in 
the 9 the year of decade
VERY few electronic manufacturers use this system.  Almost 
universal is either YYWW or WWYY

in the industry.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Home switches.

[Jon Elson]

On 05/24/2018 10:04 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Quick mini survey.  If you have a knee mill, where have you mounted your
home switches?
I understand it doesn't matter because the machine coordinate system is only
used to establish a fixed reference.  For the rest of the time we use
various world coordinate systems with the G54...


The Z home is nearly all the way up.  X home is near the 
middle of travel.  Y home is with the saddle moving toward 
the front (near maximum +Y travel.)




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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 03:24 andy pugh  wrote:

> On 25 May 2018 at 03:08, jeremy youngs  wrote:
>
> >   8950.jpg
> > <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1S6QMRvlKNLQNbT9GYOcLkHmogDqKEr/view?usp=drivesdk
> >
> > This is what I got.
>
> I see an OPB number there too, and OPB seems to be a family of optos.
> (though I can't find that one)
>
> Is that just an index detector? Not enough wires to be an ABZ encoder,
> looks more like a generic reflective sensor.
>
> I have no idea what it is, I may just find out today .


> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Home switches.

[TERRY Christophersen]

Table toward you and to the left is machine home.
4th axis on the right hand side of the table.
This is how most machines are.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 25, 2018, at 1:26 AM, Marcus Bowman 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> And that brings up the third question about a 4th axis.  If you have one, do
>> you tend to put it on the left just like a lathe spindle or on the right?
>> Any reason for the preference?  Often there are tool changers on the left so
>> it makes more sense to have the 4th on the right.
> 
> My mill is a benchtop-style arrangement, rather than a Bridgeport-style knee 
> mill.
> My 4th Axis is based on a large diameter rotary table, mounted on its side.
> I always put my 4th axis on the left, because if I put it on the right, it 
> would foul the quill handle, if I used it. Separate quill feed is manual, and 
> although I can't recall the last time I used that handle in conjunction with 
> the 4th axis, it's always a possibility. 
> That position means feeds along the work at -ve X, which is not intuitively 
> convenient, but I live with it.
> 
> Marcus
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 25 May 2018 02:24:57 jeremy youngs wrote:

> New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
> These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
> programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them
> I can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial
> mount . I will call them tomorrow .
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%
>252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d Any thoughts? Seems like a
> good solution , for a stocking part a fella could even keep a couple
> to gather dust .

Thats about the same price as the Omron, and it uses the motors bearings 
and fits the tailshaft, so it mounts much more compactly than the Omron. 
But the Omron has its own bearings making it totally selfcontained. But 
in close proximity to the motors magnetic field, the index may not work. 
And they are out of stock till the 2nd week of June, more delay than 
ebay/omron, by a week maybe.

It says stepper magnetics, but I don't see a huge diff between the 
magnetic noise of a chopper current regulated stepper, or the magnetic 
noise of a pwm driven servo.  There will be an ultrasonic component to 
either's magnetic field. Interesting connundrum. If motors came 
predrilled, the choice is the CUA, but they don't.

As for deleting portions of the text that are not germane to the reply, 
in kmail, use the arrows keys to place the cursor where you want to 
start deleting, step on the shift key and using the arrow keys, 
highlight whats to go and hit the delete key. Its gone. kmail also has 
an undo function in case that wasn't what you intended to do.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[Chris Kelley]

>From looking at the mechanical drawings on the datasheet, it looks like the
axial/radial mount refers to the direction of the connector pins.

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 1:24 AM, jeremy youngs  wrote:

> New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
> These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
> programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them I
> can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial mount
> . I will call them tomorrow .
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%
> 252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d
> Any thoughts? Seems like a good solution , for a stocking part a fella
> could even keep a couple to gather dust .
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[andy pugh]

On 25 May 2018 at 03:08, jeremy youngs  wrote:

>   8950.jpg
> 
> This is what I got.

I see an OPB number there too, and OPB seems to be a family of optos.
(though I can't find that one)

Is that just an index detector? Not enough wires to be an ABZ encoder,
looks more like a generic reflective sensor.

-- 
atp
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Re: [Emc-users] Home switches.

[Marcus Bowman]

> 
> And that brings up the third question about a 4th axis.  If you have one, do
> you tend to put it on the left just like a lathe spindle or on the right?
> Any reason for the preference?  Often there are tool changers on the left so
> it makes more sense to have the 4th on the right.

My mill is a benchtop-style arrangement, rather than a Bridgeport-style knee 
mill.
My 4th Axis is based on a large diameter rotary table, mounted on its side.
I always put my 4th axis on the left, because if I put it on the right, it 
would foul the quill handle, if I used it. Separate quill feed is manual, and 
although I can't recall the last time I used that handle in conjunction with 
the 4th axis, it's always a possibility. 
That position means feeds along the work at -ve X, which is not intuitively 
convenient, but I live with it.

Marcus
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[Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them I
can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial mount
. I will call them tomorrow .

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d
Any thoughts? Seems like a good solution , for a stocking part a fella
could even keep a couple to gather dust .
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