Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 16 March 2020 19:28:59 andrew beck wrote:

> ok gene just a update
>
> I have the mesa card connected to the vfd now.
>
> currently the analog signal is working fine I can it being read by the
> vfd which is good.
>
> I am having trouble with the control signals though.
>
> I currently have the 7i76 spindle enable pin switching the forward pin
> on the vfd
> the spindle direction pin on 7i76 switches reverse pin on vfd
>
> I am a bit stuck with what I need to do to connect up the hal
> signals.. any help there would be appreciated.  and let me know what
> info you need from me.
>
> regards
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:02 PM andrew beck 
>
> wrote:
> > I have a schiender vfd made in France so a proper manual lol.
> >
> > It's just the Mesa card I'm not sure about lol
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 9:10 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> On Monday 16 March 2020 00:28:43 andrew beck wrote:
> >> > Hey guys..
> >> >
> >> > this has probably been rehashed a few times but did some google
> >> > searches and couldn't find it so am asking here
> >> >
> >> > I just want to connect my mesa 7i76 spindle outputs to my vfd.
> >> >
> >> > I will use 0-10 volts control speed reference and a forward pulse
> >> > and reverse pulse.
> >> >
> >> > I am not sure what actual pins I should be using though and am
> >> > slightly confused.
> >> >
> >> > any help would be appreciated
> >>
> >> There are pins designated for that on the 7i76D, what seems to
> >> confuse folks is that the spindle speed is an electronic resistor
> >> that acts exectly like the arm of the front panel speed pot on the
> >> vfd, but the vfd must be programmed to use it that way. Print the
> >> 7i76 manual and reread it, it is explained.
> >>
> >> Less clearly done is the explanation in the vfd manual as most are
> >> chinglish or engrish translations that are only half-assedly done.
> >> Sometimes they switch halves in mid sentence too, just to make it
> >> interesting :-[
> >>
> >> > regards
> >> >
Get the Sheldon package from my web site, my vfd is being fed from pwmgen 
0, follow that to where the pwm feeds a spinx1, bypass that, and feed 
the pwmgen to the spindle-speed on the 7i76. I'll also attach the hal 
file for my G0704, but it doesn't have a vfd as its useing a pico 
pwm-servo to run its pmdc motor. But between those 2 files, that should 
show you how the analog signal gets from point A to point B on a 7i76.

If not, yelp again.

Take care, avoid this virus if you can.
> >> > Andrew
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Emc-users mailing list
> >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >> --
> >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> >> respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> >> Genes Web page 
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
# Generated by PNCconf at Tue Jun 30 22:44:28 2015
# If you make changes to this file, they will be
# overwritten when you run PNCconf again, so it never gets run again
# when the encoder arrives, I will need to setup 2 more mux4's to select
# the encoders.vel and .pos values, and scales to set the gains fed to
# the mux4's. So I'll need 4 more scale modules and 2 more mux4's.
# One could use gearchange for that also.
loadrt [KINS]KINEMATICS
#autoconverted  trivkins
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD 
num_joints=[KINS]JOINTS num_dio=12
loadrt hostmot2
loadrt hm2_pci  config="num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=2 num_stepgens=4"
# this means that a BoB on P2 is all gpio starting at hm2_5i25.0.gpio.017.
loadrt boot names=boot.spindle
loadrt sample_hold  names=sample_dirchg,sample_spndlchg
loadrt conv_bit_u32 names=conv-DirF,conv-DirR
loadrt conv_u32_float   names=float-boot,conv-float.DirF,conv-float.DirR
loadrt conv_s32_float   
names=S32_float_cmd,S32_float_spndl,S32_float-cntr,S32_float-cal
loadrt pid  names=pid_x,pid_y,pid_z,pid_s,pid_a
loadrt abs  
names=abs_spindle,abs_vel,abs_tachplus,abs_encdir,abs_piddir,abs_delay
loadrt comp 

Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 00:18, andrew beck  wrote:

> Is it possible to just change the hal a bit and use it as is?

The SPINENA output is switched on when the Analogue output is enabled,
so there isn't a way to have analogue output and have those terminals
not activated.

I think that the SPINDIR is individually controllable. What HAL pins
do you see?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andrew beck]

I don't think so but I am trying now. I tested the vfd first taking PCWs
advice and just put a pot on the anolog input and buttons to switch between
LI1 and +24 in the vfd for forward rotation.

reverse rotation was just switching between LI2 and +24.

Is it possible to just change the hal a bit and use it as is?

I am using linuxcnc 2.8 and linuxmint

any ideas would be great.  also any way to check the state of the enable
and direction spindle outputs would be nice to see what i am actually
getting currently.

regards

Andrew



On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:55 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 23:31, andrew beck 
> wrote:
>
> > I currently have the 7i76 spindle enable pin switching the forward pin on
> > the vfd
> > the spindle direction pin on 7i76 switches reverse pin on vfd
>
> Can you configure the VFD for "On" and "Direction" rather than "fwd"
> and  "reverse"?
>
> The 7i76 outputs rather assume the former.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 23:31, andrew beck  wrote:

> I currently have the 7i76 spindle enable pin switching the forward pin on
> the vfd
> the spindle direction pin on 7i76 switches reverse pin on vfd

Can you configure the VFD for "On" and "Direction" rather than "fwd"
and  "reverse"?

The 7i76 outputs rather assume the former.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andrew beck]

I can make a video if you guys want me to describing the problem..

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:28 PM andrew beck 
wrote:

> ok gene just a update
>
> I have the mesa card connected to the vfd now.
>
> currently the analog signal is working fine I can it being read by the vfd
> which is good.
>
> I am having trouble with the control signals though.
>
> I currently have the 7i76 spindle enable pin switching the forward pin on
> the vfd
> the spindle direction pin on 7i76 switches reverse pin on vfd
>
> I am a bit stuck with what I need to do to connect up the hal signals..
> any help there would be appreciated.  and let me know what info you need
> from me.
>
> regards
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:02 PM andrew beck 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a schiender vfd made in France so a proper manual lol.
>>
>> It's just the Mesa card I'm not sure about lol
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 9:10 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday 16 March 2020 00:28:43 andrew beck wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hey guys..
>>> >
>>> > this has probably been rehashed a few times but did some google
>>> > searches and couldn't find it so am asking here
>>> >
>>> > I just want to connect my mesa 7i76 spindle outputs to my vfd.
>>> >
>>> > I will use 0-10 volts control speed reference and a forward pulse and
>>> > reverse pulse.
>>> >
>>> > I am not sure what actual pins I should be using though and am
>>> > slightly confused.
>>> >
>>> > any help would be appreciated
>>>
>>> There are pins designated for that on the 7i76D, what seems to confuse
>>> folks is that the spindle speed is an electronic resistor that acts
>>> exectly like the arm of the front panel speed pot on the vfd, but the
>>> vfd must be programmed to use it that way. Print the 7i76 manual and
>>> reread it, it is explained.
>>>
>>> Less clearly done is the explanation in the vfd manual as most are
>>> chinglish or engrish translations that are only half-assedly done.
>>> Sometimes they switch halves in mid sentence too, just to make it
>>> interesting :-[
>>>
>>> > regards
>>> >
>>> > Andrew
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Emc-users mailing list
>>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> --
>>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>>> Genes Web page 
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>

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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andrew beck]

ok gene just a update

I have the mesa card connected to the vfd now.

currently the analog signal is working fine I can it being read by the vfd
which is good.

I am having trouble with the control signals though.

I currently have the 7i76 spindle enable pin switching the forward pin on
the vfd
the spindle direction pin on 7i76 switches reverse pin on vfd

I am a bit stuck with what I need to do to connect up the hal signals..
any help there would be appreciated.  and let me know what info you need
from me.

regards

Andrew

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:02 PM andrew beck 
wrote:

> I have a schiender vfd made in France so a proper manual lol.
>
> It's just the Mesa card I'm not sure about lol
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 9:10 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> On Monday 16 March 2020 00:28:43 andrew beck wrote:
>>
>> > Hey guys..
>> >
>> > this has probably been rehashed a few times but did some google
>> > searches and couldn't find it so am asking here
>> >
>> > I just want to connect my mesa 7i76 spindle outputs to my vfd.
>> >
>> > I will use 0-10 volts control speed reference and a forward pulse and
>> > reverse pulse.
>> >
>> > I am not sure what actual pins I should be using though and am
>> > slightly confused.
>> >
>> > any help would be appreciated
>>
>> There are pins designated for that on the 7i76D, what seems to confuse
>> folks is that the spindle speed is an electronic resistor that acts
>> exectly like the arm of the front panel speed pot on the vfd, but the
>> vfd must be programmed to use it that way. Print the 7i76 manual and
>> reread it, it is explained.
>>
>> Less clearly done is the explanation in the vfd manual as most are
>> chinglish or engrish translations that are only half-assedly done.
>> Sometimes they switch halves in mid sentence too, just to make it
>> interesting :-[
>>
>> > regards
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[andrew beck]

I have a schiender vfd made in France so a proper manual lol.

It's just the Mesa card I'm not sure about lol

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 9:10 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 16 March 2020 00:28:43 andrew beck wrote:
>
> > Hey guys..
> >
> > this has probably been rehashed a few times but did some google
> > searches and couldn't find it so am asking here
> >
> > I just want to connect my mesa 7i76 spindle outputs to my vfd.
> >
> > I will use 0-10 volts control speed reference and a forward pulse and
> > reverse pulse.
> >
> > I am not sure what actual pins I should be using though and am
> > slightly confused.
> >
> > any help would be appreciated
>
> There are pins designated for that on the 7i76D, what seems to confuse
> folks is that the spindle speed is an electronic resistor that acts
> exectly like the arm of the front panel speed pot on the vfd, but the
> vfd must be programmed to use it that way. Print the 7i76 manual and
> reread it, it is explained.
>
> Less clearly done is the explanation in the vfd manual as most are
> chinglish or engrish translations that are only half-assedly done.
> Sometimes they switch halves in mid sentence too, just to make it
> interesting :-[
>
> > regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[Robert Murphy]

Bashrc could be a way, adjusting the path based on the kernel, a string could 
be added to the kernel command line and by parsing it through 
/proc/somethingicantrememberatm, it’s in the early am here, but I know it exists


Composed with my Crayons 

> On 17 Mar 2020, at 00:48, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 23:32, Robert Murphy  wrote:
>> 
>> I have been thinking of a way to have one Livecd with RTAI & RT_PREEMPT
>> kernels and matching Linuxcnc editions.
> 
> Grub will let you choose kernels.
> 
> When configuring the linuxcnc build LinuxCNC you can choose the
> install destination. ./configure --prefix=~/linuxcnc-uspace or
> --prefix=~/linuxcnc-rtai
> I am not sure how you would automatically choose the right one based
> on kernel, but I bet there is a way.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 23:32, Robert Murphy  wrote:

> I have been thinking of a way to have one Livecd with RTAI & RT_PREEMPT
> kernels and matching Linuxcnc editions.

Grub will let you choose kernels.

When configuring the linuxcnc build LinuxCNC you can choose the
install destination. ./configure --prefix=~/linuxcnc-uspace or
--prefix=~/linuxcnc-rtai
I am not sure how you would automatically choose the right one based
on kernel, but I bet there is a way.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] shipping touch screen to new zealand from america

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 23:59, Bari  wrote:

> https://www.parcelmonkey.com/shipping-calculator

Parcelmonkey appear to be resellers, ie they have accounts and sell
shipping at somewhere between wholesale and resale rates.
This does mean that they can be a lot cheaper, frequently half the price.

I have used them extensively.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] connecting up spindle to mesa 7i76 card

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 16 March 2020 00:28:43 andrew beck wrote:

> Hey guys..
>
> this has probably been rehashed a few times but did some google
> searches and couldn't find it so am asking here
>
> I just want to connect my mesa 7i76 spindle outputs to my vfd.
>
> I will use 0-10 volts control speed reference and a forward pulse and
> reverse pulse.
>
> I am not sure what actual pins I should be using though and am
> slightly confused.
>
> any help would be appreciated

There are pins designated for that on the 7i76D, what seems to confuse 
folks is that the spindle speed is an electronic resistor that acts 
exectly like the arm of the front panel speed pot on the vfd, but the 
vfd must be programmed to use it that way. Print the 7i76 manual and 
reread it, it is explained.

Less clearly done is the explanation in the vfd manual as most are 
chinglish or engrish translations that are only half-assedly done. 
Sometimes they switch halves in mid sentence too, just to make it 
interesting :-[

> regards
>
> Andrew
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 15 March 2020 23:19:17 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> > "... The outputs are push pull CMOS  that will drive to the output
> > supply rail of 3.3V. This is sufficient for TTL compatibility but
> > may cause problems with some types of loads.  For  example  when 
> > driving an  LED  that  has  its  anode  connected  to  5V,  in  such
> > devices  as OPTO  isolators  and  I/O  module  rack  SSRs,the 
> > 3.3V  high level  may  not completely  turn  the  LED  off"
>
> You left off a bit of the manual text:
>
> "To  avoid  this  problem, either  drive  loads  that  are  ground
> referred, Use 3.3V as the VCC for VCC referred loads, or use open
> drain mode."
>
To further discuss/clarify this, while open drain seems ok in stepper 
systems. I am very reliably controlling big 40 amp ssr's with open drain 
outputs, to the - terminal, same for stepper drivers applying open drain 
to the -input of the stepper drivers while bussing a solid 5 volts to 
the + terminals. No 3.3 volts exists in the control stuff that isn't 
internal to the pi's. But I have a drawer full of that stuff, so a 
conversiion would be fairly easy. Using 3.3 volts and open drain would 
seem to be a belt and suspenders approach if its enough drive.

So, should I stick a buck supply set at 3.3 volts to drive the + rail to 
that stuff? Is that sufficient drive for a stepper driver such as a 
DM542 or its ilk?  Ditto the SSR's? And the + rail of the 7i42TA's, they 
are getting +4.87 volts for a logic high when the ATS667's are off. Ack 
their specs, they won't work at 3.3 volts. And it makes a certain amount 
of sense to restrict the 7i42TA + rail to 3.3 volts if it would help 
clip the noise etc.

Thanks Peter.

> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[TJoseph Powderly]

niggley bits,

"To  avoid  this  problem, either  drive  loads  that  are  ground
referred, Use 3.3V as the VCC for VCC referred loads, or use open
drain mode."

Please change that capital U to u,
Also, beef up the a || b ||  c   logic with 'or use'.

"To  avoid  this  problem, either  drive  loads  that  are  ground
referred, or use 3.3V as the VCC for VCC referred loads,\ or use open
drain mode."

U makes readers think previous char was a period.
A period would destroy the meaning. it becomes an unfinished thought.

I had to copy the line into a text editor, not believing what I thought I saw.

Npotebooks with tiny characters make . and , damn similar.

and good luck on the Chinese translation.
I'm glad to see international cooperation at this time in history.

tomp

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 10:22 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> >
> > "... The outputs are push pull CMOS  that will drive to the output
> > supply rail of 3.3V. This is sufficient for TTL compatibility but may
> > cause problems with some types of loads.  For  example  when  driving
> > an  LED  that  has  its  anode  connected  to  5V,  in  such devices  as
> >  OPTO  isolators  and  I/O  module  rack  SSRs,the  3.3V  high
> > level  may  not completely  turn  the  LED  off"
>
> You left off a bit of the manual text:
>
> "To  avoid  this  problem, either  drive  loads  that  are  ground
> referred, Use 3.3V as the VCC for VCC referred loads, or use open
> drain mode."
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
>
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