Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Just a thought:

Since the index pulse is only one PPR, does it keep working and is it readable 
right up to 10k rpm? If so, you could first read the index pulse; if speed> 
threshold, multiply index by encoder ppr and connect that to encoder in; if 
speed < threshold (-hysteresis?), connect main pulse to encoder input.

I’m writing this having no idea what kind of hardware you have or if it’s even 
possible.

> On Jun 19, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> On 06/19/2020 10:30 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
>>> leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
>>> it surviving at high RPM.
>> My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop counting.
>> And that probably isn't actually a problem.
>> 
>> Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.
>> 
> Well, I have a spindle RPM display on a PyVCP on my mill, it is nice to check 
> that I'm getting the right speed.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 23:39:45 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 06/19/2020 10:03 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd
> > like to leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm
> > concerning about it surviving at high RPM. Suggestion for a cheap
> > gear tooth sensor?
>
> I have a little article on my web site :
> http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
>
> The sensor is the Allegro ATS667LSGTN-T  It senses the
> passage of the tooth in front of the sensor, so it gives a
> nice 50% duty cycle over a wide speed range and different
> tooth pitch.  I get these from Digi-Key for about $8 each.
>
> Jon
>
And they work great, on ferrous gears, but they are all nylon in that 
machine.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 23:03:36 Ken Strauss wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 10:43 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
> >
> > On 06/19/2020 07:03 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 00:38, Ken Strauss  
wrote:
> > >> Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap
> > >> encoders
> >
> > capable
> >
> > >> of higher RPM?
> > >
> > > It will cost you less than $10 to find what happens to those
> > > encoders at 10k rpm.
> > >
> > > (My guess would be that they just stop seeing the edges)
> >
> > Oh, if you need 10 K RPM, then it is best to use a gear
> > tooth sensor and a modest number of
> > teeth to sense.  Spindle encoders do not really need a high
> > count/rev to give good threading
> > results.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd
> like to leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm
> concerning about it surviving at high RPM. Suggestion for a cheap gear
> tooth sensor?
>
ATS-667,hall effect, about $7 copy, need three, but you have nylon gears 
they can't see.

>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 19:16:45 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 23:47, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Cura sees it at /dev/usb2, can octopi use that?
>
> You could ask on the Octoprint IRC. (freenode, same as LinuxCNC,
> #octoprint

nobody there, you show but but no greeting.  left konversation running in 
case I get an answer, did, but no help, apparently python2.7 is 
ignoreiing python-serial, its not logged in the startup trace.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Jon Elson]

On 06/19/2020 10:30 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss  wrote:


Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
it surviving at high RPM.

My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop counting.
And that probably isn't actually a problem.

Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.

Well, I have a spindle RPM display on a PyVCP on my mill, it 
is nice to check that I'm getting the right speed.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Jon Elson]

On 06/19/2020 10:03 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:



Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
it surviving at high RPM. Suggestion for a cheap gear tooth sensor?

I have a little article on my web site :
http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html

The sensor is the Allegro ATS667LSGTN-T  It senses the 
passage of the tooth in front of the sensor, so it gives a 
nice 50% duty cycle over a wide speed range and different 
tooth pitch.  I get these from Digi-Key for about $8 each.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss  wrote:

> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
> leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
> it surviving at high RPM.

My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop counting.
And that probably isn't actually a problem.

Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 10:43 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On 06/19/2020 07:03 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 00:38, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >> Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders
> capable
> >> of higher RPM?
> > It will cost you less than $10 to find what happens to those encoders
> > at 10k rpm.
> >
> > (My guess would be that they just stop seeing the edges)
> >
> Oh, if you need 10 K RPM, then it is best to use a gear
> tooth sensor and a modest number of
> teeth to sense.  Spindle encoders do not really need a high
> count/rev to give good threading
> results.
>
> Jon

Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
it surviving at high RPM. Suggestion for a cheap gear tooth sensor?




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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Jon Elson]

On 06/19/2020 07:03 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 00:38, Ken Strauss  wrote:

Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders capable
of higher RPM?

It will cost you less than $10 to find what happens to those encoders
at 10k rpm.

(My guess would be that they just stop seeing the edges)

Oh, if you need 10 K RPM, then it is best to use a gear 
tooth sensor and a modest number of
teeth to sense.  Spindle encoders do not really need a high 
count/rev to give good threading

results.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 00:38, Ken Strauss  wrote:
>
> Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders capable
> of higher RPM?

It will cost you less than $10 to find what happens to those encoders
at 10k rpm.

(My guess would be that they just stop seeing the edges)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders capable
of higher RPM?

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 5:00 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On Friday 19 June 2020 14:49:54 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
> > except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle.
> > Any suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed
> > (perhaps 5:1)? Will normal GT2 belts survive?
>
> Until it doesn't, long time down the log.  You'll need to rig a once per
> turn index though as you bee way out of time. At 10g revs, you'll need
> an index every turn, which you won't get if its geared down. However, an
> even number gear down might work. But it for sure won't if the geardown
> is fractional.  So use a 1000 line encoder, gear it down 4 to one and
> use a scale of 250.  And that should work.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 23:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Cura sees it at /dev/usb2, can octopi use that?

You could ask on the Octoprint IRC. (freenode, same as LinuxCNC, #octoprint

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 18:04:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:57, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Next? Is there a tut someplace that I missed?
>
> Octoprint runs headless normally. Have a look for a web page in your
> network at octopi.local (if you installed it on a Pi)
>
No net connectivity. Only pi is busy running a big lathe.

Cura sees it at /dev/usb2, can octopi use that?

> I am running in on an old Pi2. I just put octoprint on the SD card and
> then set it up through the web interface. (I might have needed a
> locally connected monitor to get it started)


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 21:01, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Nope, 2 phase means A and B only, no index pulse.  Look for
> one with 3 channels, A B and Z (index).

It sounds like it is his intention to gear it down anyway, so could
not use the index even if there were one.

A mill only really needs an index for rigid tapping.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 22:57, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Next? Is there a tut someplace that I missed?

Octoprint runs headless normally. Have a look for a web page in your
network at octopi.local (if you installed it on a Pi)

I am running in on an old Pi2. I just put octoprint on the SD card and
then set it up through the web interface. (I might have needed a
locally connected monitor to get it started)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 16:18:24 Chris Albertson wrote:

> OctoPrint runs on normal PC.  It is open-source and written in Python.
> Assuming you have a spare PC it's free to use.
>
> Yes, they sell plug-and-go kits and also have SD card images for the
> Pi4. Many people need this because they could never learn to install
> an open-source Python program on their PC.   So they use the SD card
> image or to make it even easier they buy a full up running system, Pi4
> computer, plastic case, power supply and all for $125
>
> But for some, all you need is "pip install OctoPrint" and the software
> is pulled down and installed and you are up and running.  This works
> on newer Linux, Windows and Mac.   (However, it is easiest if you buy
> a Pi4 with the software already installed.)
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:19 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > I did, $125 for the full kit.  I'll have to see if I last long
> > enough to use it.

sudo pip install octoprint fails, no python.h so the build bails out. 
missing pypy.dev and a reboot, but pip installed about 15 python things 
including a new kernel and a new pip and pypy. Repeating the install 
after a reboot was succsesfull.  But running octoprint ties up a shell 
that a ctrl-C exits. otherwise no output. octoprint --help is very 
terse.

Next? Is there a tut someplace that I missed?

Thanks, I think.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 14:49:54 Ken Strauss wrote:

> I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
> except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle.
> Any suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed
> (perhaps 5:1)? Will normal GT2 belts survive?

Until it doesn't, long time down the log.  You'll need to rig a once per 
turn index though as you bee way out of time. At 10g revs, you'll need 
an index every turn, which you won't get if its geared down. However, an 
even number gear down might work. But it for sure won't if the geardown 
is fractional.  So use a 1000 line encoder, gear it down 4 to one and 
use a scale of 250.  And that should work.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 14:01:54 Chris Albertson wrote:

> There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
> spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
>
> I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
> thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
> ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...
> Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:A
>fUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
>
> There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It
> looks like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a
> replacement that is held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that
> fits on top of the drawbar. The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket" 
> that is light friction fit to the top of the drawbar.
>
> In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill
> using the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the
> cover.
>
> I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.

If you've the bandwidth, use the 600, if not, a lower one will work but 
at a little less Pgain.  With the servo lag, use only a teeny bit of 
Igain.

> Either will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.  
> I might put a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.
>   The plan is to get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I
> figure an open-loop servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a
> human operator can do with his fingers while listening to the noise.
>
> My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
> build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
> controller.  I already have a few of them.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I
> > > thought it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
> >
> > And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap
> > turning, and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see
> > no reason to totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities.
> > Even the little 200 watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or
> > maybe even a 2mm tap. The lack of space in the head to build a
> > decent encoder is far more of a limitation than a speed controller
> > such as this. Thats the main reason my little hf never grew the
> > ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier, pulled out of the head
> > and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot electronics was out
> > of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller, so high gain I
> > was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was working so I
> > could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no slowdown to
> > let the user know it was working too hard.
> >
> > I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
> > F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in
> > an out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at
> > 800 volts instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise
> > looked the same. So the consideration resolved to the driver
> > transistor in the circuits ability to switch the much higher gate
> > capacitance that bug had to have since switching speed is paramount.
> > I put it in, think I had a reservoir of such bugs if it didn't work.
> > I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.
> >
> > That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since
> > with the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of
> > the mill is in pieces, it unscrewed one of its ballnuts a year & 1/2
> > ago.
> >
> > Somebody should make me an offer for it, its the complete controller
> > out of the big head hf x1 with a pmdx-106 interface, ready to take
> > the pwm & direction output of LinuxCNC from a parport bob, either
> > manual or full bi-directional computer control of a 200, maybe even
> > a 400 watt motor. Its not in service here, and probably won't ever
> > be again as I'm approaching the end of my ride here with a pump
> > running at 31% efficiency.  And thats beginning to affect my
> > giddy-up.
> >
> > > On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I
> > > > found a way to 3D print a spindle controller that should work
> > > > for most small milling machines and small lathes.   The cost is
> > > > "almost nothing". These machines' spindles are controlled by
> > > > turning a potentiometer so my new system simply uses a cheap
> > > > model airplane servo to turn the shaft of a potentiometer.  The
> > > > computer is 100% isolated from any high voltage or noise.
> > > >
> > > > These small mills will never be able to do things like rigid
> > > > tapping so all they need is a simple and approximate way to
> > > 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Chris Albertson]

OctoPrint runs on normal PC.  It is open-source and written in Python.
Assuming you have a spare PC it's free to use.

Yes, they sell plug-and-go kits and also have SD card images for the Pi4.
Many people need this because they could never learn to install an
open-source Python program on their PC.   So they use the SD card image or
to make it even easier they buy a full up running system, Pi4 computer,
plastic case, power supply and all for $125

But for some, all you need is "pip install OctoPrint" and the software is
pulled down and installed and you are up and running.  This works on newer
Linux, Windows and Mac.   (However, it is easiest if you buy a Pi4 with the
software already installed.)




On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:19 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> I did, $125 for the full kit.  I'll have to see if I last long enough to
> use it.
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Bari]

 The Rockchip and the Allwinner SOC's have integrated microcontrollers 
as well for software stepping at high speeds.


https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39037-linuxcnc-orange-pi?start=30

On 6/19/20 2:55 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

A Pi isn't the most suitable unit for that sort of thing.   The BeagleBone has 
two hardware QEI devices.  Alternatively there are other processors out there 
that have the hardware interface.



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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[R C]

Sure,  but it works..   and   *lol*    Linux is not good at "Real Time" 
? , nothing is good at real time (depending on what you call real time), as


long as you can complete some operations with a given amount of time.  
(I work on time sensitive stuff, "real time" issues at scale for a 
living, not


too many issues with a little encoder in particular.


On 6/19/20 1:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
The Pi is a really horrible platform for reading high speed 
quadrature. Sorry to say but you'd be far better off using a $3 to $10 
ARM-based development board.   I have a few Pi3 and Pi4 here. I 
typically use the $3 boards for real-time stuff like encoders and 
motor control and place the calculations and user interface on the Pi3 
or Pi4.


The little cheap boards don't miss counts and don't run Linux Kernels. 
For motion control, I like to place that on the ARM micro and then 
connect that to the Pi via USB.  The Pi sends "move-to" and speed 
commands and the Micro sends position and velocity updates at perhaps 
20Hz back to the Pi.  No, I did not invent this. The idea is common.   
Linux is just not good at "real-time" even with an RT kernel.  The 
ARM-M on the other hand is perfect for real-time.


Notice the setup that "everyone" uses to control machine tools.  
Linux/RT connected to Mesa/FPGA.  This is logically the same as Pi4 
connected to ARM-M.  The concept is the same: Move the real-time stuff 
into hardware.


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 12:45 PM R C > wrote:



On 6/19/20 1:34 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> A 4:1 reduction is possible with gears.  The sensor would be
mounted the
> same way but displaced off axis 24 mm then fitted with a 80T
gear and
> driven by a 20T gear that is itself driven by the drawbar.   I
would buy l
> gears (mod. 0.5 or Pi/2 mm pitch)  as printed gears are not
great in that
> tiny size.
>
> I think gears are good because they can be small mod 0.5 or even
smaller.
> Two minutes of hunting found this
> https://www.mcmaster.com/2662N31
> for $3 each.  This could be the "large" gear fixed to the sensor.
>
> There is "all the space in the world" above the spindle on the
mini mill
> but you need to preserve a way to get a wrench on the drawbar.
>
> The harder part is getting the encoder data into LinuxCNC/HAL. 
  It is
> easy if you have some Mesa cards.    More work if the data must
go in via
> USB.

I am still messing with reading quadrature encoder(s) on an RPI,
it can
be done.  I am doing that for a few reasons, one

is for adding something like that to a benchtop mill and lathe, the
other is to track the axes of a telescope mount that I

am building.



> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Strauss
mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive
encoders
>> except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm
spindle. Any
>> suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed
(perhaps 5:1)?
>> Will normal GT2 belts survive?
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com
]
>>> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
>>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>>>
>>> There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF
mill's
>>> spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
>>> thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
>>>
ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder.
..
>>>
>> Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-
>>> Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:AfUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
>>>
>>> There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by
friction.     It
>> looks
>>> like the top on a can of spray paint.    I can make a
replacement that is
>>> held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the
>> drawbar.
>>> The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light
friction fit to
>>> the top of the drawbar.
>>>
>>> In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of
the mill
>> using
>>> the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the
cover.
>>>
>>> I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.
>>   Either
>>> will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card. 
 I might
>> put
>>> a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface. 
 The plan is
>> to
>>> 

Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Chris Albertson]

One more thing.   This is a link the the Harbor Freight Mini-Mill.  The
list price is $700 and they ALWAYS have 20% off coupons so the actual price
is $560.  I can't seriously offer a CNC conversion that more than doubles
the price of the Mill.

So the budget for motors, power supply, Mesa cards and cables and sensors,
pendants and EVERYTHING must be under $500.   Of course I've already spent
more but "low-budget" is the point of THIS current project.   Ok low-budget
and very, very easy to build.

In my opinion it is just to easy to solve problems with money.  It does not
take much thinking.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 12:34 PM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> A 4:1 reduction is possible with gears.  The sensor would be mounted the
> same way but displaced off axis 24 mm then fitted with a 80T gear and
> driven by a 20T gear that is itself driven by the drawbar.   I would buy l
> gears (mod. 0.5 or Pi/2 mm pitch)  as printed gears are not great in that
> tiny size.
>
> I think gears are good because they can be small mod 0.5 or even smaller.
> Two minutes of hunting found this
> https://www.mcmaster.com/2662N31
> for $3 each.  This could be the "large" gear fixed to the sensor.
>
> There is "all the space in the world" above the spindle on the mini mill
> but you need to preserve a way to get a wrench on the drawbar.
>
> The harder part is getting the encoder data into LinuxCNC/HAL.It is
> easy if you have some Mesa cards.More work if the data must go in via
> USB.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Strauss 
> wrote:
>
>> I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
>> except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle. Any
>> suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed (perhaps 5:1)?
>> Will normal GT2 belts survive?
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>> >
>> > There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
>> > spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
>> >
>> > I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
>> > thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
>> > ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...
>> > > > Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-
>> > Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:AfUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
>> >
>> > There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It
>> looks
>> > like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that
>> is
>> > held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the
>> drawbar.
>> > The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
>> > the top of the drawbar.
>> >
>> > In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill
>> using
>> > the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.
>> >
>> > I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.
>>  Either
>> > will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might
>> put
>> > a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is
>> to
>> > get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an
>> open-loop
>> > servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
>> > with his fingers while listening to the noise.
>> >
>> > My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
>> > build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
>> > controller.  I already have a few of them.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I
>> thought
>> > > > it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
>> > > >
>> > > And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
>> > > and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason
>> to
>> > > totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little
>> 200
>> > > watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap.
>> The
>> > > lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
>> > > limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
>> > > my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That
>> controller/amplifier,
>> > > pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
>> > > electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain
>> controller,
>> > > so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
>> > > working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
>> > > slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.
>> > >
>> 

Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Jon Elson]

On 06/19/2020 01:01 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.

I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...



Nope, 2 phase means A and B only, no index pulse.  Look for 
one with 3 channels, A B and Z (index).


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-19-20 12:45 PM
> To: Chris Albertson; linuxcnc-users-list
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
> 
> 
> On 6/19/20 1:34 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > A 4:1 reduction is possible with gears.  The sensor would be mounted the
> > same way but displaced off axis 24 mm then fitted with a 80T gear and
> > driven by a 20T gear that is itself driven by the drawbar.   I would buy l
> > gears (mod. 0.5 or Pi/2 mm pitch)  as printed gears are not great in that
> > tiny size.
> >
> > I think gears are good because they can be small mod 0.5 or even smaller.
> > Two minutes of hunting found this
> > https://www.mcmaster.com/2662N31
> > for $3 each.  This could be the "large" gear fixed to the sensor.
> >
> > There is "all the space in the world" above the spindle on the mini mill
> > but you need to preserve a way to get a wrench on the drawbar.
> >
> > The harder part is getting the encoder data into LinuxCNC/HAL.It is
> > easy if you have some Mesa cards.More work if the data must go in via
> > USB.
> 
> I am still messing with reading quadrature encoder(s) on an RPI, it can
> be done.� I am doing that for a few reasons, one
> 
> is for adding something like that to a benchtop mill and lathe, the
> other is to track the axes of a telescope mount that I am building.
> 

A Pi isn't the most suitable unit for that sort of thing.   The BeagleBone has 
two hardware QEI devices.  Alternatively there are other processors out there 
that have the hardware interface.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[R C]

On 6/19/20 1:34 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

A 4:1 reduction is possible with gears.  The sensor would be mounted the
same way but displaced off axis 24 mm then fitted with a 80T gear and
driven by a 20T gear that is itself driven by the drawbar.   I would buy l
gears (mod. 0.5 or Pi/2 mm pitch)  as printed gears are not great in that
tiny size.

I think gears are good because they can be small mod 0.5 or even smaller.
Two minutes of hunting found this
https://www.mcmaster.com/2662N31
for $3 each.  This could be the "large" gear fixed to the sensor.

There is "all the space in the world" above the spindle on the mini mill
but you need to preserve a way to get a wrench on the drawbar.

The harder part is getting the encoder data into LinuxCNC/HAL.It is
easy if you have some Mesa cards.More work if the data must go in via
USB.


I am still messing with reading quadrature encoder(s) on an RPI, it can 
be done.  I am doing that for a few reasons, one


is for adding something like that to a benchtop mill and lathe, the 
other is to track the axes of a telescope mount that I


am building.




On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Strauss  wrote:


I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle. Any
suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed (perhaps 5:1)?
Will normal GT2 belts survive?


-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.

I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...


There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It

looks

like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that is
held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the

drawbar.

The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
the top of the drawbar.

In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill

using

the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.

I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.

  Either

will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might

put

a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is

to

get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an open-loop
servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
with his fingers while listening to the noise.

My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
controller.  I already have a few of them.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett 

wrote:

On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:


I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
it would be considered too Heath Robinson..


And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to
totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200
watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap.

The

lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier,
pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller,
so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.

I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an
out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800

volts

instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.
So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits
ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have
since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a

reservoir

of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.

That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since

with

the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill

is

in 

Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Chris Albertson]

A 4:1 reduction is possible with gears.  The sensor would be mounted the
same way but displaced off axis 24 mm then fitted with a 80T gear and
driven by a 20T gear that is itself driven by the drawbar.   I would buy l
gears (mod. 0.5 or Pi/2 mm pitch)  as printed gears are not great in that
tiny size.

I think gears are good because they can be small mod 0.5 or even smaller.
Two minutes of hunting found this
https://www.mcmaster.com/2662N31
for $3 each.  This could be the "large" gear fixed to the sensor.

There is "all the space in the world" above the spindle on the mini mill
but you need to preserve a way to get a wrench on the drawbar.

The harder part is getting the encoder data into LinuxCNC/HAL.It is
easy if you have some Mesa cards.More work if the data must go in via
USB.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Strauss  wrote:

> I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
> except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle. Any
> suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed (perhaps 5:1)?
> Will normal GT2 belts survive?
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
> >
> > There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
> > spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
> >
> > I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
> > thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
> > ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...
> >  > Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-
> > Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:AfUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
> >
> > There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It
> looks
> > like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that is
> > held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the
> drawbar.
> > The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
> > the top of the drawbar.
> >
> > In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill
> using
> > the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.
> >
> > I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.
>  Either
> > will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might
> put
> > a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is
> to
> > get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an open-loop
> > servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
> > with his fingers while listening to the noise.
> >
> > My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
> > build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
> > controller.  I already have a few of them.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
> > > > it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
> > > >
> > > And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
> > > and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to
> > > totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200
> > > watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap.
> The
> > > lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
> > > limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
> > > my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier,
> > > pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
> > > electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller,
> > > so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
> > > working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
> > > slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.
> > >
> > > I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
> > > F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an
> > > out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800
> volts
> > > instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.
> > > So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits
> > > ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have
> > > since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a
> reservoir
> > > of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.
> > >
> > > That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since
> with
> > > the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle. Any
suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed (perhaps 5:1)?
Will normal GT2 belts survive?

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
> spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
>
> I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
> thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
> ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...
>  Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-
> Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:AfUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
>
> There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It
looks
> like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that is
> held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the
drawbar.
> The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
> the top of the drawbar.
>
> In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill
using
> the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.
>
> I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.   Either
> will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might
put
> a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is
to
> get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an open-loop
> servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
> with his fingers while listening to the noise.
>
> My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
> build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
> controller.  I already have a few of them.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >
> > > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
> > > it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
> > >
> > And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
> > and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to
> > totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200
> > watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap. The
> > lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
> > limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
> > my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier,
> > pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
> > electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller,
> > so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
> > working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
> > slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.
> >
> > I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
> > F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an
> > out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800 volts
> > instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.
> > So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits
> > ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have
> > since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a reservoir
> > of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.
> >
> > That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since with
> > the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill is
> > in pieces, it unscrewed one of its ballnuts a year & 1/2 ago.
> >
> > Somebody should make me an offer for it, its the complete controller out
> > of the big head hf x1 with a pmdx-106 interface, ready to take the pwm &
> > direction output of LinuxCNC from a parport bob, either manual or full
> > bi-directional computer control of a 200, maybe even a 400 watt motor.
> > Its not in service here, and probably won't ever be again as I'm
> > approaching the end of my ride here with a pump running at 31%
> > efficiency.  And thats beginning to affect my giddy-up.
> >
> > > On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a
> > > > way to 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small
> > > > milling machines and small lathes.   The cost is "almost nothing".
> > > > These machines' spindles are controlled by turning a potentiometer
> > > > so my new system simply uses a cheap model airplane 

Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Chris Albertson]

There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.

I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...


There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It looks
like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that is
held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the drawbar.
The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
the top of the drawbar.

In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill using
the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.

I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.   Either
will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might put
a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is to
get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an open-loop
servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
with his fingers while listening to the noise.

My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
controller.  I already have a few of them.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
> > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
> > it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
> >
> And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
> and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to
> totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200
> watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap. The
> lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
> limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
> my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier,
> pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
> electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller,
> so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
> working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
> slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.
>
> I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
> F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an
> out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800 volts
> instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.
> So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits
> ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have
> since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a reservoir
> of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.
>
> That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since with
> the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill is
> in pieces, it unscrewed one of its ballnuts a year & 1/2 ago.
>
> Somebody should make me an offer for it, its the complete controller out
> of the big head hf x1 with a pmdx-106 interface, ready to take the pwm &
> direction output of LinuxCNC from a parport bob, either manual or full
> bi-directional computer control of a 200, maybe even a 400 watt motor.
> Its not in service here, and probably won't ever be again as I'm
> approaching the end of my ride here with a pump running at 31%
> efficiency.  And thats beginning to affect my giddy-up.
>
> > On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a
> > > way to 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small
> > > milling machines and small lathes.   The cost is "almost nothing".
> > > These machines' spindles are controlled by turning a potentiometer
> > > so my new system simply uses a cheap model airplane servo to turn
> > > the shaft of a potentiometer.  The computer is 100% isolated from
> > > any high voltage or noise.
> > >
> > > These small mills will never be able to do things like rigid tapping
> > > so all they need is a simple and approximate way to control the RPM.
> > >  This speed control can be run "open loop" if plus/minus 20% is good
> > > enough or used with a spindle encoder in a closed PID loop as long
> > > as the PID is tunned not to aggressively.
> > >
> > >
> > > For anyone who does not know about these hobby servos:
> > >
> > >- They are not full rotation motors.  They turn only through
> > > about 250 degrees, 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 13:05:35 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 19 June 2020 12:58:06 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > I few more things about Marlin 2.0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You likey will not be able to turn on all the features at the same
> > time because it will not fit into memory.   You can determin this on
> > your Linux system.  Simply download from Github and do a compile in
> > the Arduino IDE and see the size of the image.   No need to connect
> > any hardware to do this.  Just run the compiler.
> >
> > THis new Marlin 2.0 suports 32-bit controler cardsbased on ARM. 
> > These cards have dramatically more memory than Marlin can use.  So
> > you can enable "everything" like automatic bed leveling, SD card
> > reading, Touch screen and power failure recovery.  Aneat feature to
> > have a filament sensor to stop prints if there is no filament (the
> > sensor is just a microswitch.) With an 8-bit AVR chip you have to
> > pick and choose features
> >
> > Theother way to add better features to the printer is OctoPrint.
> > It runs on Linux and adds a web based interface to the printer with
> > drag and drop printing.Also it has very good status
> > checking including a webcam interface so you can look.
>
> That sounds interesting, I'll see if I can find it.  Thanks.
>
I did, $125 for the full kit.  I'll have to see if I last long enough to 
use it.

> > Go to the Marlin Github page and clone the repository.  Then sign up
> > for change notifications.   If using Marlin you REALLY need to be
> > using Git so you have a localhistory of you experiments and edits.
> > and then when the master on github changes you can merge with local
> > edits.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 9:35 AM Chris Albertson
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > You can't connect directly to a PC.  You physically wire an
> > > Arduino "Uno" to the controller board, Then install programmer
> > > software in the Arduino, in effect turning the Arduino into a
> > > programmer. Then the Arduino is connected via USB to a PC.The
> > > PC can run any OS.
> > >
> > > Then what you load onto the controller board is NOT the new Marlin
> > > firmware but a "boot loader".   A boot loader is what is inside
> > > every Arduino and is what makes them an "Arduino and not just a
> > > dumb AVR chip.Using an Arduino to install a bootloader is a
> > > common thing and is not special to the Ender3 printer.
> > >
> > > OK, now that you have and Ender with a bootloader you can use any
> > > PC, Linux, Mac or whatever to load "sketches" into the Arduino
> > > board you now have in your printer.
> > >
> > > Why is there no boot loader in your printer?I don't know but
> > > one guess is they wanted to use the memory for something else. 
> > > Boot loader take up a few hunderd bytes and on these tiny 8-bit
> > > chips EVERY byte matters.
> > >
> > > On Linux CNC to modify a configuration you edit an INI file or a
> > > HAL file and re-launch the software.  In Marlin you must edit the
> > > C++ code, re-compile and re-flash the chip.   Many times you need
> > > to disable features to make the code fit.
> > >
> > > If you are going to swap firmware, you might first verify you know
> > > how to re-install the factory frmware, just incase you find you
> > > can't fit Marlin 2.0 into the controller's memory or if you make a
> > > mistake with the editor and introduce a bug. In any case, you
> > > need an Arduino to use as a programmer.
> > >
> > > The Arduino IDE is identical under windows, Mac or Linux. Get that
> > > and play with it and see if you can do simple exercises like make
> > > an LED blink with different patterns BEFORE trying to change the
> > > firmware.
> > >
> > > If you have to buy an Arduino, the cheap eBay clones are just as
> > > good. Arduino is "Open Source" so the clones are made from
> > > published designes and really do work identically.  Buy two of
> > > them soyou can test out the new Marlin 2.0 on a $6 Arduino before
> > > you commit to loading it to the printer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then there are peopleusing LinuxCNC to drive 3D printers.  Seems
> > > silly to use a PC and a Mesa card when a $6 Aruduino can do the
> > > same job.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM Gene Heskett
> > > 
>
> wrote:
> > >> On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >> > I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally
> > >> > launched render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or
> > >> > anything else the printer might be doing.
> > >> >
> > >> > Am I supposed to see it all?
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can
> > >> > check dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I
> > >> > have it useing enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
> > >> >
> > >> > It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the
> > >> > list, maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this
> > >> > locally 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 12:58:06 Chris Albertson wrote:

> I few more things about Marlin 2.0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You likey will not be able to turn on all the features at the same
> time because it will not fit into memory.   You can determin this on
> your Linux system.  Simply download from Github and do a compile in
> the Arduino IDE and see the size of the image.   No need to connect
> any hardware to do this.  Just run the compiler.
>
> THis new Marlin 2.0 suports 32-bit controler cardsbased on ARM.  These
> cards have dramatically more memory than Marlin can use.  So you can
> enable "everything" like automatic bed leveling, SD card reading,
> Touch screen and power failure recovery.  Aneat feature to have a
> filament sensor to stop prints if there is no filament (the sensor is
> just a microswitch.) With an 8-bit AVR chip you have to pick and
> choose features
>
> Theother way to add better features to the printer is OctoPrint.
> It runs on Linux and adds a web based interface to the printer with
> drag and drop printing.Also it has very good status
> checking including a webcam interface so you can look.
>
That sounds interesting, I'll see if I can find it.  Thanks.

> Go to the Marlin Github page and clone the repository.  Then sign up
> for change notifications.   If using Marlin you REALLY need to be
> using Git so you have a localhistory of you experiments and edits. and
> then when the master on github changes you can merge with local edits.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 9:35 AM Chris Albertson
> 
>
> wrote:
> > You can't connect directly to a PC.  You physically wire an Arduino
> > "Uno" to the controller board, Then install programmer software in
> > the Arduino, in effect turning the Arduino into a programmer.
> > Then the Arduino is connected via USB to a PC.The PC can run any
> > OS.
> >
> > Then what you load onto the controller board is NOT the new Marlin
> > firmware but a "boot loader".   A boot loader is what is inside
> > every Arduino and is what makes them an "Arduino and not just a dumb
> > AVR chip.Using an Arduino to install a bootloader is a common
> > thing and is not special to the Ender3 printer.
> >
> > OK, now that you have and Ender with a bootloader you can use any
> > PC, Linux, Mac or whatever to load "sketches" into the Arduino board
> > you now have in your printer.
> >
> > Why is there no boot loader in your printer?I don't know but one
> > guess is they wanted to use the memory for something else.  Boot
> > loader take up a few hunderd bytes and on these tiny 8-bit chips
> > EVERY byte matters.
> >
> > On Linux CNC to modify a configuration you edit an INI file or a HAL
> > file and re-launch the software.  In Marlin you must edit the C++
> > code, re-compile and re-flash the chip.   Many times you need to
> > disable features to make the code fit.
> >
> > If you are going to swap firmware, you might first verify you know
> > how to re-install the factory frmware, just incase you find you
> > can't fit Marlin 2.0 into the controller's memory or if you make a
> > mistake with the editor and introduce a bug. In any case, you
> > need an Arduino to use as a programmer.
> >
> > The Arduino IDE is identical under windows, Mac or Linux. Get that
> > and play with it and see if you can do simple exercises like make an
> > LED blink with different patterns BEFORE trying to change the
> > firmware.
> >
> > If you have to buy an Arduino, the cheap eBay clones are just as
> > good. Arduino is "Open Source" so the clones are made from published
> > designes and really do work identically.  Buy two of them soyou can
> > test out the new Marlin 2.0 on a $6 Arduino before you commit to
> > loading it to the printer.
> >
> >
> > Then there are peopleusing LinuxCNC to drive 3D printers.  Seems
> > silly to use a PC and a Mesa card when a $6 Aruduino can do the same
> > job.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> > I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched
> >> > render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything
> >> > else the printer might be doing.
> >> >
> >> > Am I supposed to see it all?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check
> >> > dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it
> >> > useing enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
> >> >
> >> > It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list,
> >> > maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally
> >> > started print from here.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> And I just found a limitation that pisses me off, there is better
> >> firmware, Marlin 2.0, for it, but it only installs from a winders
> >> box over spi via a presumably very short cable from some sort of an
> >> spi adapter.  Has anyone made that work from Linux?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 12:35:53 Chris Albertson wrote:

> You can't connect directly to a PC.  You physically wire an Arduino
> "Uno" to the controller board, Then install programmer software in the
> Arduino, in effect turning the Arduino into a programmer. Then the
> Arduino is connected via USB to a PC.The PC can run any OS.
>
> Then what you load onto the controller board is NOT the new Marlin
> firmware but a "boot loader".   A boot loader is what is inside every
> Arduino and is what makes them an "Arduino and not just a dumb AVR
> chip.Using an Arduino to install a bootloader is a common thing
> and is not special to the Ender3 printer.
>
> OK, now that you have and Ender with a bootloader you can use any PC,
> Linux, Mac or whatever to load "sketches" into the Arduino board you
> now have in your printer.
>
> Why is there no boot loader in your printer?I don't know but one
> guess is they wanted to use the memory for something else.  Boot
> loader take up a few hunderd bytes and on these tiny 8-bit chips EVERY
> byte matters.
>
> On Linux CNC to modify a configuration you edit an INI file or a HAL
> file and re-launch the software.  In Marlin you must edit the C++
> code, re-compile and re-flash the chip.   Many times you need to
> disable features to make the code fit.
>
> If you are going to swap firmware, you might first verify you know how
> to re-install the factory frmware, just incase you find you can't fit
> Marlin 2.0 into the controller's memory or if you make a mistake with
> the editor and introduce a bug. In any case, you need an Arduino
> to use as a programmer.
>
> The Arduino IDE is identical under windows, Mac or Linux. Get that and
> play with it and see if you can do simple exercises like make an LED
> blink with different patterns BEFORE trying to change the firmware.
>
> If you have to buy an Arduino, the cheap eBay clones are just as good.
> Arduino is "Open Source" so the clones are made from published
> designes and really do work identically.  Buy two of them soyou can
> test out the new Marlin 2.0 on a $6 Arduino before you commit to
> loading it to the printer.
>
Considering the simplistic gcode cura sends it, with custom m1xx commands 
to control the heaters, Merlin is nowhere near able to do what LCNC can 
do.  So I expect I'll just let it muddle along. I don't consider the 
autobed mapping as all that useful unless the z screw setup is doubled, 
putting another z motor on the opposite post. Even with enough string 
being fed, I think the improved air flow from the extra air duct 
probably demands a higher nozzle temp just to get a decent weld to the 
next layer down. I've set a couple files to start at 210 so the start 
layer sticks, but 200 gets me the feel of poor interlayer welding, so 
with that improved cooling, I think 65C/210C might be a higher strength 
combo. I have a 5x5x5 at 60/205 going now. To check dimensions now that 
its using enough string.
>
> Then there are peopleusing LinuxCNC to drive 3D printers.  Seems silly
> to use a PC and a Mesa card when a $6 Aruduino can do the same job.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched
> > > render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything else
> > > the printer might be doing.
> > >
> > > Am I supposed to see it all?
> > >
> > > Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check
> > > dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it
> > > useing enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
> > >
> > > It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list,
> > > maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally
> > > started print from here.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > And I just found a limitation that pisses me off, there is better
> > firmware, Marlin 2.0, for it, but it only installs from a winders
> > box over spi via a presumably very short cable from some sort of an
> > spi adapter.  Has anyone made that work from Linux?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Chris Albertson]

I few more things about Marlin 2.0




















You likey will not be able to turn on all the features at the same time
because it will not fit into memory.   You can determin this on your Linux
system.  Simply download from Github and do a compile in the Arduino IDE
and see the size of the image.   No need to connect any hardware to do
this.  Just run the compiler.

THis new Marlin 2.0 suports 32-bit controler cardsbased on ARM.  These
cards have dramatically more memory than Marlin can use.  So you can enable
"everything" like automatic bed leveling, SD card reading, Touch screen and
power failure recovery.  Aneat feature to have a filament sensor to stop
prints if there is no filament (the sensor is just a microswitch.)
 With an 8-bit AVR chip you have to pick and choose features

Theother way to add better features to the printer is OctoPrint. It
runs on Linux and adds a web based interface to the printer with
drag and drop printing.Also it has very good status
checking including a webcam interface so you can look.

Go to the Marlin Github page and clone the repository.  Then sign up for
change notifications.   If using Marlin you REALLY need to be using Git so
you have a localhistory of you experiments and edits. and then when the
master on github changes you can merge with local edits.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 9:35 AM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> You can't connect directly to a PC.  You physically wire an Arduino "Uno"
> to the controller board, Then install programmer software in the Arduino,
> in effect turning the Arduino into a programmer. Then the Arduino is
> connected via USB to a PC.The PC can run any OS.
>
> Then what you load onto the controller board is NOT the new Marlin
> firmware but a "boot loader".   A boot loader is what is inside
> every Arduino and is what makes them an "Arduino and not just a dumb AVR
> chip.Using an Arduino to install a bootloader is a common thing and is
> not special to the Ender3 printer.
>
> OK, now that you have and Ender with a bootloader you can use any PC,
> Linux, Mac or whatever to load "sketches" into the Arduino board you now
> have in your printer.
>
> Why is there no boot loader in your printer?I don't know but one guess
> is they wanted to use the memory for something else.  Boot loader take up a
> few hunderd bytes and on these tiny 8-bit chips EVERY byte matters.
>
> On Linux CNC to modify a configuration you edit an INI file or a HAL file
> and re-launch the software.  In Marlin you must edit the C++ code,
> re-compile and re-flash the chip.   Many times you need to disable features
> to make the code fit.
>
> If you are going to swap firmware, you might first verify you know how to
> re-install the factory frmware, just incase you find you can't fit Marlin
> 2.0 into the controller's memory or if you make a mistake with the editor
> and introduce a bug. In any case, you need an Arduino to use as a
> programmer.
>
> The Arduino IDE is identical under windows, Mac or Linux. Get that and
> play with it and see if you can do simple exercises like make an LED blink
> with different patterns BEFORE trying to change the firmware.
>
> If you have to buy an Arduino, the cheap eBay clones are just as good.
> Arduino is "Open Source" so the clones are made from published designes and
> really do work identically.  Buy two of them soyou can test out the new
> Marlin 2.0 on a $6 Arduino before you commit to loading it to the printer.
>
>
> Then there are peopleusing LinuxCNC to drive 3D printers.  Seems silly to
> use a PC and a Mesa card when a $6 Aruduino can do the same job.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>> > I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched
>> > render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything else the
>> > printer might be doing.
>> >
>> > Am I supposed to see it all?
>> >
>> > Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check
>> > dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it useing
>> > enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
>> >
>> > It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list,
>> > maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally started
>> > print from here.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>
>> And I just found a limitation that pisses me off, there is better
>> firmware, Marlin 2.0, for it, but it only installs from a winders box
>> over spi via a presumably very short cable from some sort of an spi
>> adapter.  Has anyone made that work from Linux?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Chris Albertson]

You can't connect directly to a PC.  You physically wire an Arduino "Uno"
to the controller board, Then install programmer software in the Arduino,
in effect turning the Arduino into a programmer. Then the Arduino is
connected via USB to a PC.The PC can run any OS.

Then what you load onto the controller board is NOT the new Marlin firmware
but a "boot loader".   A boot loader is what is inside every Arduino and is
what makes them an "Arduino and not just a dumb AVR chip.Using an
Arduino to install a bootloader is a common thing and is not special to the
Ender3 printer.

OK, now that you have and Ender with a bootloader you can use any PC,
Linux, Mac or whatever to load "sketches" into the Arduino board you now
have in your printer.

Why is there no boot loader in your printer?I don't know but one guess
is they wanted to use the memory for something else.  Boot loader take up a
few hunderd bytes and on these tiny 8-bit chips EVERY byte matters.

On Linux CNC to modify a configuration you edit an INI file or a HAL file
and re-launch the software.  In Marlin you must edit the C++ code,
re-compile and re-flash the chip.   Many times you need to disable features
to make the code fit.

If you are going to swap firmware, you might first verify you know how to
re-install the factory frmware, just incase you find you can't fit Marlin
2.0 into the controller's memory or if you make a mistake with the editor
and introduce a bug. In any case, you need an Arduino to use as a
programmer.

The Arduino IDE is identical under windows, Mac or Linux. Get that and play
with it and see if you can do simple exercises like make an LED blink with
different patterns BEFORE trying to change the firmware.

If you have to buy an Arduino, the cheap eBay clones are just as good.
Arduino is "Open Source" so the clones are made from published designes and
really do work identically.  Buy two of them soyou can test out the new
Marlin 2.0 on a $6 Arduino before you commit to loading it to the printer.


Then there are peopleusing LinuxCNC to drive 3D printers.  Seems silly to
use a PC and a Mesa card when a $6 Aruduino can do the same job.


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> > I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched
> > render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything else the
> > printer might be doing.
> >
> > Am I supposed to see it all?
> >
> > Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check
> > dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it useing
> > enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
> >
> > It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list,
> > maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally started
> > print from here.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> And I just found a limitation that pisses me off, there is better
> firmware, Marlin 2.0, for it, but it only installs from a winders box
> over spi via a presumably very short cable from some sort of an spi
> adapter.  Has anyone made that work from Linux?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 10:10:16 Gene Heskett wrote:

> I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched
> render of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything else the
> printer might be doing.
>
> Am I supposed to see it all?
>
> Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check
> dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it useing
> enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.
>
> It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list,
> maybe it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally started
> print from here.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

And I just found a limitation that pisses me off, there is better 
firmware, Marlin 2.0, for it, but it only installs from a winders box 
over spi via a presumably very short cable from some sort of an spi 
adapter.  Has anyone made that work from Linux?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] finally, right cables, have cura talking to printer, sorta

[Gene Heskett]

I can see bed, nozzle tmps, as they heat from a locally launched render 
of yet another 5x5x5, but not the filename or anything else the printer 
might be doing.

Am I supposed to see it all?

Thanks, but puzzled. I'll let it finish the 5x5x5 so I can check 
dimensions since I can't stop it from this machine. I have it useing 
enough string now so the 5x5x5 is probably fat.

It finds the printer but I haven't actually added it to the list, maybe 
it takes that to do it all? I can't abort this locally started print 
from here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 11:13, Roland Jollivet  wrote:
>
> I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought it
> would be considered too Heath Robinson..

It was a technique used a fair bit in the early days of RobotWars. RC
servo turning pot on golf-cart controller.

It is crude, but does have very good noise resistance. In a noisy
environment the all-digital robots would fail to move at all as the
commanded speed wobbled from full-forward to full reverse. Whereas
with the mechanically linked pot, the servo would generally jitter in
the right direction, and give some movement.

In a game where not being obviously immobile is all it takes to win,
that's good.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:

> I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
> it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
>
And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning, 
and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to 
totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200 
watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap. The 
lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a 
limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason 
my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier, 
pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot 
electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller, 
so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was 
working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no 
slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.

I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet 
F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an 
out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800 volts 
instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.  
So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits 
ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have 
since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a reservoir 
of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.

That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since with 
the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill is 
in pieces, it unscrewed one of its ballnuts a year & 1/2 ago.

Somebody should make me an offer for it, its the complete controller out 
of the big head hf x1 with a pmdx-106 interface, ready to take the pwm & 
direction output of LinuxCNC from a parport bob, either manual or full 
bi-directional computer control of a 200, maybe even a 400 watt motor.  
Its not in service here, and probably won't ever be again as I'm 
approaching the end of my ride here with a pump running at 31% 
efficiency.  And thats beginning to affect my giddy-up.

> On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson
> 
>
> wrote:
> > I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a
> > way to 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small
> > milling machines and small lathes.   The cost is "almost nothing".  
> > These machines' spindles are controlled by turning a potentiometer
> > so my new system simply uses a cheap model airplane servo to turn
> > the shaft of a potentiometer.  The computer is 100% isolated from
> > any high voltage or noise.
> >
> > These small mills will never be able to do things like rigid tapping
> > so all they need is a simple and approximate way to control the RPM.
> >  This speed control can be run "open loop" if plus/minus 20% is good
> > enough or used with a spindle encoder in a closed PID loop as long
> > as the PID is tunned not to aggressively.
> >
> >
> > For anyone who does not know about these hobby servos:
> >
> >- They are not full rotation motors.  They turn only through
> > about 250 degrees, This is a good match to the pot as pots also
> > rotate about this range.
> >- The angle of the servo shaft is controlled by a PWM signal.
> >- They are "dirt cheap" starting at about $5
> > amazon.com/4-Pack-MG996R <
> > https://www.amazon.com/4-Pack-MG996R-Torque-Digital-Helicopter/dp/B0
> >7MFK266B/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1=mg+servo=1592502600=8-2
> >
> >- They accept a 5-volt control signal, so they have a built-in
> > computer interface.
> >- They are fast (enough) and can move from full-low to full-high
> > on 0.6 seconds
> >- They really are actual "servos" and have an encoder, motor
> > driver, and gears all inside.
> >
> >
> > So when LinuxCNC outputs a low-value PWM spindle control, the servo
> > moves the pot to the low position.  As the PWM signal value gets
> > larger the pot is moved closer to the high-speed position.
> >
> > In the picture below is a cartoonish render.  The green frame is
> > one-piece 3D printed,  The red pannel and tan coupler are also 3D
> > printed.  The motor sells on Amazon, four units for $20 and the pot
> > is about a buck each.  Four M4 button head screws everything
> > together.
> >
> > Here is a link to the current version CAD files and a viewer.   I'll
> > be updating the files after the first prototype is printed.
> > https://a360.co/2N95AiL
> > I may make a top cover to protect the pot and keep fingers off the
> > high voltage.
> >
> >
> >
> > [image: Red Neck Spindle Control v6.jpg]
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > 

[Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Roland Jollivet]

I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought it
would be considered too Heath Robinson..


On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a way to
> 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small milling
> machines and small lathes.   The cost is "almost nothing".   These
> machines' spindles are controlled by turning a potentiometer so my new
> system simply uses a cheap model airplane servo to turn the shaft of a
> potentiometer.  The computer is 100% isolated from any high voltage or
> noise.
>
> These small mills will never be able to do things like rigid tapping so all
> they need is a simple and approximate way to control the RPM.  This speed
> control can be run "open loop" if plus/minus 20% is good enough or used
> with a spindle encoder in a closed PID loop as long as the PID is
> tunned not to aggressively.
>
>
> For anyone who does not know about these hobby servos:
>
>- They are not full rotation motors.  They turn only through about 250
>degrees, This is a good match to the pot as pots also rotate about this
>range.
>- The angle of the servo shaft is controlled by a PWM signal.
>- They are "dirt cheap" starting at about $5 amazon.com/4-Pack-MG996R
><
> https://www.amazon.com/4-Pack-MG996R-Torque-Digital-Helicopter/dp/B07MFK266B/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1=mg+servo=1592502600=8-2
> >
>- They accept a 5-volt control signal, so they have a built-in computer
>interface.
>- They are fast (enough) and can move from full-low to full-high on 0.6
>seconds
>- They really are actual "servos" and have an encoder, motor driver, and
>gears all inside.
>
>
> So when LinuxCNC outputs a low-value PWM spindle control, the servo moves
> the pot to the low position.  As the PWM signal value gets larger the pot
> is moved closer to the high-speed position.
>
> In the picture below is a cartoonish render.  The green frame is one-piece
> 3D printed,  The red pannel and tan coupler are also 3D printed.  The motor
> sells on Amazon, four units for $20 and the pot is about a buck each.  Four
> M4 button head screws everything together.
>
> Here is a link to the current version CAD files and a viewer.   I'll be
> updating the files after the first prototype is printed.
> https://a360.co/2N95AiL
> I may make a top cover to protect the pot and keep fingers off the high
> voltage.
>
>
>
> [image: Red Neck Spindle Control v6.jpg]
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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