[Emc-users] Error with ISO image

[Viesturs Lācis]

Hello!

I downloaded ISO image with 2.7.14 version and I cannot make it to
work. I get errors when I try to run installer and I also get an error
when I try to run live version from USB stick.
Error for install:
https://www.picpasteplus.com/v.php?i=4056a632c1
Error for live run:
https://www.picpasteplus.com/v.php?i=aac23fa489
I have never seen anything like that. What am I missing?
I also tried an ISO file that Andy had shared a link - it was named 2.8test5.iso
It does run live session, but I get stuck, when I try to install it -
it wants to load CD-ROM drivers, but there is no cd-rom in the machine
and that is where I get stuck - installer shows a menu and the only
option that works for me is the last one - abort installation.
I also tried debian-live-7.8.0-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso from official
Debian homepage hoping that I could add LinuxCNC repositories and
install it that way. I also get stuck on CD-ROM in this one.
I will appreciate any hints on how to get it working :)

Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Eric Keller]

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> it's hosted separately)
>
>  I like the looks of NativeCam but I wonder if the widgets from QTpyVCP
aren't closer to mach widgets.  More widgets needed right now, but the
probing and circular hole drill pattern ones look great.
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/showcase/mill_vcps.html

I looked at the install instructions for QTpyVCP, and I really would rather
not tell a newbie to do that.  Not sure how hard it would be to add to
linuxcnc at some point.
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 00:15, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > > I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> > > (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> > > it's hosted separately)
> > >
> > > --
> > You end up standing in front of the mill screen doing CAD work.
> 
> Have you used NativeCAM?
> 
> ( and have you seen sim-gmoccapy-lathe_configs-lathe_macro? )
> 
Nope.  Not if it doesn't run on WIN-7.  I use AlibreCAD and AlibreCAM.  Never 
could wrap my brain around Autocad or some of the other CAD software.  
AlibreCAD was the first time I found I could actually be productive drawing 
things.

Found some links.  I'll look into it.
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 September 2020 19:54:52 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 00:15, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> > > I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> > > (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> > > it's hosted separately)
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > You end up standing in front of the mill screen doing CAD work.
>
> Have you used NativeCAM?
>
> ( and have you seen sim-gmoccapy-lathe_configs-lathe_macro? )
Doesn't run here, missing gtk stuffs.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 September 2020 18:32:04 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 at 20:25, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> > So I don't think it's whining or complaining to suggest that a nice
> > feature to add to the AXIS interface would be another menu entry for
> > called say "Operations".  And fill it in with one item to perform a
> > surfacing operation G-Code program that is then loaded.
>
> I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> it's hosted separately)

And I've had problems with updates killing it. Not currently enabled 
here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 00:15, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> > (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> > it's hosted separately)
> >
> > --
> You end up standing in front of the mill screen doing CAD work.

Have you used NativeCAM?

( and have you seen sim-gmoccapy-lathe_configs-lathe_macro? )

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 at 20:25, John Dammeyer <  
> jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
> 
> > So I don't think it's whining or complaining to suggest that a nice feature 
> > to add to the AXIS interface would be another menu entry
> for called say "Operations".  And fill it in with one item to perform a 
> surfacing operation G-Code program that is then loaded.
> 
> I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
> (the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
> it's hosted separately)
> 
> --
You end up standing in front of the mill screen doing CAD work.  The whole 
point of wizards is that you don't.  The Lazarus program I posted earlier which 
IIRC was ported from a command line program someone posted, for boring holes 
using R or I/J G-Codes is similar without the graphical image of the tool path.
 
Hopefully these screenshots will make it through.
 
Here's the menu from Wizards.
I've selected Surfacing with tool down in X whatever that means.  Perhaps the 
direction of the passes.  
 

 
Here's the result when clicking on generate G Code.  It's an awful mess with 
the parameters all over the place.  Really needs some human factors 
engineering.  But the key is the same sort of parameters that I use with 
AlibreCAM for setting the various 2D patterns are here.
One thing missing is whether both or only climb milling is desired.

 
And here's the G-Code.  Assuming it follows the drawing of the tool path and 
the tool height is set correctly the surfacing operation is done.  No need to 
draw anything.  Just clamp it in the vise.   Move the tool over to roughly 
where you want the XY corner to be and rehome for G54 or whatever.   Touch off 
to the top or again however you decide to set Z and post the G-Code.
 
Could it be better.  Probably.  If you only do this once every 3 months it's 
certainly faster than using G-Code.   It's just an idea.  And if the parameters 
are sticky by adding that save button then graphical output isn't needed.  Once 
it's loaded that's already done by AXIS so why do it again.   If you don't like 
what it looks like you can rerun the wizard with the saved parameters and tweak 
things.  
 
Now it's true that in MACH then with the tool path already displayed you can 
tweak before you leave or save.  But again.  This all just an idea.
 
F10
G00 Z0.1
G00 X-1.25 Y-0.25
G00 Z0
G01 Y-0.25
G01 X3.25
G01 Y0.025
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y0.3
G01 X3.25
G01 Y0.575
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y0.85
G01 X3.25
G01 Y1.125
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y1.4
G01 X3.25
G01 Y1.675
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y1.95
G01 X3.25
G01 Y2.225
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y2.5
G01 X3.25
G01 Y2.775
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y3.05
G01 X3.25
G01 Y3.325
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y3.6
G01 X3.25
G01 Y3.875
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y4.15
G01 X3.25
G01 Y4.425
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y4.7
G01 X3.25
G01 Y4.975
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y5.25
G01 X3.25
G00 Z0.1
G00 X-1.25 Y-0.25
G00 Z-0.25
F5
G01 Y-0.25
G01 X3.25
G01 Y0.025
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y0.3
G01 X3.25
G01 Y0.575
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y0.85
G01 X3.25
G01 Y1.125
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y1.4
G01 X3.25
G01 Y1.675
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y1.95
G01 X3.25
G01 Y2.225
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y2.5
G01 X3.25
G01 Y2.775
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y3.05
G01 X3.25
G01 Y3.325
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y3.6
G01 X3.25
G01 Y3.875
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y4.15
G01 X3.25
G01 Y4.425
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y4.7
G01 X3.25
G01 Y4.975
G01 X-0.25
G01 Y5.25
G01 X3.25
G00 Z0.1
G00 X-1.25 Y-0.25
M30
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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 at 20:25, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> So I don't think it's whining or complaining to suggest that a nice feature 
> to add to the AXIS interface would be another menu entry for called say 
> "Operations".  And fill it in with one item to perform a surfacing operation 
> G-Code program that is then loaded.

I wonder if installing NativeCAM by default would be an idea?
(the problem there is that it is not part of the LinuxCNC project,
it's hosted separately)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 September 2020 15:22:44 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:11 PM Mark  wrote:
> > > Folks seem to clamor quite a
> > > bit how all this is going to die out and we need to change this,
> > > that and every other thing to enable all these other platforms. 
> > > Yet, none of them seem to want to grab the software and change it
> > > to their wants or needs.  It always seems the developers must
> > > change their wants.  Tormach proved that wasn't necessary.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > It's not too many folks, but the same ones make a lot of noise. 
> > > It seems
> >
> > to me that there are some nice gcode senders out there that could do
> > what the noisy people want with less work than adapting linuxcnc to
> > be a gcode sender with an as-of-yet undefined distributed control
> > interface on the other end of a non-real time network interface.
> >
> > Granted, that's a whole lot of work.
> > Eric Keller
>
> I think first it would be appropriate to not use words like whine or
> clamor or noise.  A comment was made about the people who joined the
> group thinking about LinuxCNC and then left.  It's easy to misconstrue
> some of these comments or words as demeaning or debasing and in
> general the Linux community has a bit of a reputation of replying to
> posts with statements like:
>
> "This information is on line or has already been answered so do your
> homework and don't bother us with uniformed questions"
>
> Sadly, when someone is starting they don't know what they don't know
> and don't know where to look to find out what they don't know.
>
> Add to that the time line of the internet and postings and the amount
> of out of date material that often shows up far more often because
> it's been referenced often it's really difficult for someone new to
> get a sense of what to do or how things work.
>
> For example, I'm sure there are LinuxCNC users out there who have no
> idea of what a joint is in LinuxCNC.  And there's the crux of the
> problem with a hobbyist who wants to add CNC to his equipment.  They
> might add a 4th axis.  Certainly not interested in a 16 joint robot.
> (Well they might be...)
>
> So that new guy does his research, looks at the web site after
> googling "LinuxCNC Axis" and ends up here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html
>
> His friend has MACH3 on WIN-XP but he doesn't and really doesn't want
> to try and get WIN-XP running on the surplus PC he has for the CNC
> shop.
>
> His friend shows him all the wizards that make simple operations on
> the mill trivial.  So he reads the doc and can't find an equivalent. 
> It's not an AXIS menu item.  He asks a question like "Is there a menu
> entry or some Wizards like in MACH3?"  and is told: "Learn G-Code. 
> You'll need it anyway no matter what".
>
> Notice that isn't an answer to his question.
>
> Another common type of response is "Yes you can add all sorts of
> screens and things like wizards to LinuxCNC."  Nothing more.
>
> Remember, this new user has never written a line of software in his
> life.  He's picked up metal working as a hobby because he likes model
> trains and would like to build a steam engine now that he's close to
> retirement.  (or some other reason that a person buys a mill and a
> lathe).
>
> So I don't think it's whining or complaining to suggest that a nice
> feature to add to the AXIS interface would be another menu entry for
> called say "Operations".  And fill it in with one item to perform a
> surfacing operation G-Code program that is then loaded.
>
> Then in the manual add a section that shows how to add to that list. 
> One possible approach is to make that list an XML file which can be
> edited with free programs like XMLNotepad.  There's probably something
> like that in the Linux world too.
>
> The main menu entry is "Operations"
>
> Underneath that the name of an operation like "Surfacing" and the file
> name of the program that is run to create the dialog and interact with
> a user.
>
> The "Operations" dialog on save returns a pointer to the file name and
> then just like opening a G-Code file it's loaded.
>
> Now AXIS has the ability to run Wizards written in any language.  I've
> used this example because I'd like to see something like the MACH3
> wizards in the Axis interface.
>
> But I haven't a clue where to start and since I don't do development
> on Linux systems (other than Pi or Beagle) I couldn't even rebuild
> Axis if I wanted to.  Ie.  I don't have a development PC that has
> Linux on it.   But I can write using Lazarus and test all these types
> of dialogs on a WIN-7 or WIN-10 PC and on a Pi.
>
> And at least I write software for a living.  That hobbyist I've
> mentioned just leaves the list and buys something else.  Doesn't say
> goodbye.  Just leaves.
>
> And perhaps we shouldn't care.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
But I think we shuld care, John. Care enough to put some effort into 
interesting 

Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:11 PM Mark  wrote:
> 
> > Folks seem to clamor quite a
> > bit how all this is going to die out and we need to change this, that
> > and every other thing to enable all these other platforms.  Yet, none of
> > them seem to want to grab the software and change it to their wants or
> > needs.  It always seems the developers must change their wants.  Tormach
> > proved that wasn't necessary.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > It's not too many folks, but the same ones make a lot of noise.  It seems
> to me that there are some nice gcode senders out there that could do what
> the noisy people want with less work than adapting linuxcnc to be a gcode
> sender with an as-of-yet undefined distributed control interface on the
> other end of a non-real time network interface.
> 
> Granted, that's a whole lot of work.
> Eric Keller

I think first it would be appropriate to not use words like whine or clamor or 
noise.  A comment was made about the people who joined the group thinking about 
LinuxCNC and then left.  It's easy to misconstrue some of these comments or 
words as demeaning or debasing and in general the Linux community has a bit of 
a reputation of replying to posts with statements like:

"This information is on line or has already been answered so do your homework 
and don't bother us with uniformed questions"

Sadly, when someone is starting they don't know what they don't know and don't 
know where to look to find out what they don't know.  

Add to that the time line of the internet and postings and the amount of out of 
date material that often shows up far more often because it's been referenced 
often it's really difficult for someone new to get a sense of what to do or how 
things work.

For example, I'm sure there are LinuxCNC users out there who have no idea of 
what a joint is in LinuxCNC.  And there's the crux of the problem with a 
hobbyist who wants to add CNC to his equipment.  They might add a 4th axis.  
Certainly not interested in a 16 joint robot. (Well they might be...)

So that new guy does his research, looks at the web site after googling 
"LinuxCNC Axis" and ends up here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html

His friend has MACH3 on WIN-XP but he doesn't and really doesn't want to try 
and get WIN-XP running on the surplus PC he has for the CNC shop. 

His friend shows him all the wizards that make simple operations on the mill 
trivial.  So he reads the doc and can't find an equivalent.  It's not an AXIS 
menu item.  He asks a question like "Is there a menu entry or some Wizards like 
in MACH3?"  and is told: "Learn G-Code.  You'll need it anyway no matter what". 

Notice that isn't an answer to his question.  

Another common type of response is "Yes you can add all sorts of screens and 
things like wizards to LinuxCNC."  Nothing more.

Remember, this new user has never written a line of software in his life.  He's 
picked up metal working as a hobby because he likes model trains and would like 
to build a steam engine now that he's close to retirement.  (or some other 
reason that a person buys a mill and a lathe).

So I don't think it's whining or complaining to suggest that a nice feature to 
add to the AXIS interface would be another menu entry for called say 
"Operations".  And fill it in with one item to perform a surfacing operation 
G-Code program that is then loaded.  

Then in the manual add a section that shows how to add to that list.  One 
possible approach is to make that list an XML file which can be edited with 
free programs like XMLNotepad.  There's probably something like that in the 
Linux world too.

The main menu entry is "Operations"

Underneath that the name of an operation like "Surfacing" and the file name of 
the program that is run to create the dialog and interact with a user.  

The "Operations" dialog on save returns a pointer to the file name and then 
just like opening a G-Code file it's loaded.

Now AXIS has the ability to run Wizards written in any language.  I've used 
this example because I'd like to see something like the MACH3 wizards in the 
Axis interface. 

But I haven't a clue where to start and since I don't do development on Linux 
systems (other than Pi or Beagle) I couldn't even rebuild Axis if I wanted to.  
Ie.  I don't have a development PC that has Linux on it.   But I can write 
using Lazarus and test all these types of dialogs on a WIN-7 or WIN-10 PC and 
on a Pi.

And at least I write software for a living.  That hobbyist I've mentioned just 
leaves the list and buys something else.  Doesn't say goodbye.  Just leaves.  

And perhaps we shouldn't care.

John Dammeyer



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Eric Keller]

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:11 PM Mark  wrote:

> Folks seem to clamor quite a
> bit how all this is going to die out and we need to change this, that
> and every other thing to enable all these other platforms.  Yet, none of
> them seem to want to grab the software and change it to their wants or
> needs.  It always seems the developers must change their wants.  Tormach
> proved that wasn't necessary.
>
> Mark
>
> It's not too many folks, but the same ones make a lot of noise.  It seems
to me that there are some nice gcode senders out there that could do what
the noisy people want with less work than adapting linuxcnc to be a gcode
sender with an as-of-yet undefined distributed control interface on the
other end of a non-real time network interface.

Granted, that's a whole lot of work.
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylvania

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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Lester Caine]

On 05/09/2020 16:46, John Dammeyer wrote:

OTOH, I have one of these because I don't trust wireless for running the 
machine.
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32844453793.html


I'm running one of those ... perfect and the magnets keep it in place on 
the side of the mill enclosure ...


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 September 2020 11:46:22 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > > Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems
> > > to be ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both
> > > input and output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired
> > > in the context of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of
> > > tablets.  I just don't want to depend on wireless communications
> > > to control a machine that can hurt me or someone else or cause
> > > other kinds of damage.
> >
> > Need to send message periodically to keep machine moving and no risk
> > picking up noise or signal from somewhere else. Probably need some
> > kind of encryption and randomness to solve this. On top of this are
> > the ordinary risk what happen then something fails, used long enough
> > and it will sooner or later, at least me quite often use things
> > until they break.
>
> There will be many who use these and state there is no problem.
> https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-Wireless-Electronic-CNC-Handwheel-MA
>CH3-6-Axis-Pulse-Pendant-MPG-for-CNC-Engraving-Machine-p-1365963.html
>
> OTOH, I have one of these because I don't trust wireless for running
> the machine. https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32844453793.html
> I don't even trust myself running the machine as a gouge in the vise
> will attest. But there was support for it and it works reasonably
> well. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html
>
> Again with the dual boot PC and either MACH3 or LinuxCNC.
>
> John

I've been using logitek k310 wireless keyboards (and their cheap 
mini-mouse) for many years. Battery life has been the huge majority of 
the problems, and the ability to pick up the keyboard and take it the 3 
or 4 feet to the machine without dragging a cable is like mastercard, 
priceless.

Cross talk has also been a non- problem despite 3 machines in about 12 
foot of space.

Why the K310? Simple, square sided keys don't get jammed down by swarf 
near as often as conventional tapered sided keys where a bit of swarf 
follows the key down, then wedges it in the down position.  Acer has one 
totaaly without a keymask thats pretty good in a swarfy environment, but 
it's A, wired, and B, twice the logiteks desk real estate requirements, 
and C, I've never been able to buy another like it, and finally D, it 
has so many extra keys you cannot pick it up and carry it without 
pressing some #@ multimedia key as they go clear to the edge of it.

>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Mark]

On 9/5/20 11:46 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:


Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems to be
ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both input and
output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired in the context
of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of tablets.  I just
don't want to depend on wireless communications to control a machine
that can hurt me or someone else or cause other kinds of damage.

Need to send message periodically to keep machine moving and no risk picking up 
noise or signal from somewhere else. Probably
need some kind of encryption and randomness to solve this. On top of this are 
the ordinary risk what happen then something fails,
used long enough and it will sooner or later, at least me quite often use 
things until they break.

There will be many who use these and state there is no problem.
https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-Wireless-Electronic-CNC-Handwheel-MACH3-6-Axis-Pulse-Pendant-MPG-for-CNC-Engraving-Machine-p-1365963.html

OTOH, I have one of these because I don't trust wireless for running the 
machine.
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32844453793.html
I don't even trust myself running the machine as a gouge in the vise will 
attest. But there was support for it and it works reasonably well.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html

Again with the dual boot PC and either MACH3 or LinuxCNC.

John



John,

You sort of made my point.  That banggood product is made for a small 
engraving machine that someone could run on their kitchen table.  I'd 
like to think Sam's machines are a wee bit different and would require 
an industrial strength controller like LinuxCNC.  I've never seen an 
industrial MPG using wireless or bluetooth to control a machine.  Not 
saying there may be none out there, but every instance I've ever seen 
they are hardwired into the machine.


I think that's kind of the point some folks seem to be missing here.  
The original reason for EMC was to create an industrial strength 
controller to control CNC machines.  That folks have been able to adapt 
LinuxCNC to run hobby machines is a bonus and has increased the 
popularity of the control software.  If folks want to modify it further 
to run on other platforms for their hobby enjoyment that's all well and 
good. But to expect the developers to change the software completely 
away from it's original and ongoing vision without putting skin the game 
to me is just a little bit incredulous.  Folks seem to clamor quite a 
bit how all this is going to die out and we need to change this, that 
and every other thing to enable all these other platforms.  Yet, none of 
them seem to want to grab the software and change it to their wants or 
needs.  It always seems the developers must change their wants.  Tormach 
proved that wasn't necessary.


Mark



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Mark]

On 9/5/20 10:40 AM, N wrote:




Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems to be
ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both input and
output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired in the context
of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of tablets.  I just
don't want to depend on wireless communications to control a machine
that can hurt me or someone else or cause other kinds of damage.

Need to send message periodically to keep machine moving and no risk picking up 
noise or signal from somewhere else. Probably need some kind of encryption and 
randomness to solve this. On top of this are the ordinary risk what happen then 
something fails, used long enough and it will sooner or later, at least me 
quite often use things until they break.



All that doesn't matter if the interference in a typical machine shop is 
constantly blocking, interfering or overwhelming the signal.  There's 
always EMI in a shop from a lot of sources.  Why take the chance, and 
not use a hardwired connection?


Mark



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[John Dammeyer]

> > Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems to be
> > ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both input and
> > output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired in the context
> > of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of tablets.  I just
> > don't want to depend on wireless communications to control a machine
> > that can hurt me or someone else or cause other kinds of damage.
> 
> Need to send message periodically to keep machine moving and no risk picking 
> up noise or signal from somewhere else. Probably
> need some kind of encryption and randomness to solve this. On top of this are 
> the ordinary risk what happen then something fails,
> used long enough and it will sooner or later, at least me quite often use 
> things until they break.

There will be many who use these and state there is no problem.
https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-Wireless-Electronic-CNC-Handwheel-MACH3-6-Axis-Pulse-Pendant-MPG-for-CNC-Engraving-Machine-p-1365963.html

OTOH, I have one of these because I don't trust wireless for running the 
machine.  
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32844453793.html
I don't even trust myself running the machine as a gouge in the vise will 
attest. But there was support for it and it works reasonably well.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html

Again with the dual boot PC and either MACH3 or LinuxCNC.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

[Tom Smart]

Did anyone order one of these drives from this listing? I ordered one and go an 
email today saying they only had 2 left and they were both faulty so canceled 
my order.

Just wondering if anyone was ablento get one.

From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 10:06 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

> From: Tom Smart [mailto:smart_tow...@hotmail.com]
> How large is your 4th axis made from one of these? Any pics? How complicated 
> was the construction?

Like Andy, I've made mine complicated too.  I haven't yet made a face plate 
either.  He has a cam lock chuck on his lathe to be able to move the chuck with 
work held in it to the 4th axis..  I have a South Bend Heavy 10L with a screw 
on chuck and 5C collet spindle.

I'm undecided whether I'm better to make a faceplate that can use the SB 
chuck/faceplate or something else.  As a result the indecision means nothing 
has been made yet.

I posted photos of the 3D printed pattern on the 8th of August.  Although Andy 
has a spare casting the mount hole spacing doesn't match my mill and shipping 
cast iron from the UK was scary.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/HarmonicDrive/D8X_5784_Plastic_Mount.jpg

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[N]

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 08:08:17 -0400
Mark  wrote:

> On 9/4/20 6:13 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> Never said I changed from Mach 3 to LinuxCNC.  I've not owned a Windows
> >> machine for the better part of 30 years.
> > Oops.  Sorry.  For some reason I thought you had.  What I'm looking for are 
> > reasons why perhaps (again other than a dislike of Windows) why people 
> > changed.
> 
> 
> Controller didn't do what they wanted or needed it to do, 
> dissatisfaction with the OS, or any other number of reasons.  I'm not in 
> the market place trying to sell CNC controllers, so I settled on one 
> that worked for me, and happily enough, it had a Linux back end so I 
> wasn't forced to use Windows or a Mac, both of which I dislike.
> 
> 
> >
> >> Doesn't matter to me how many units that Aliexpress sold per year of that
> >> controller.  Wouldn't work on my machine, so I have no need to even
> >> consider it.
> > I understand that.  I think that Chris was basically trying to say the same 
> > thing.  If for example those types of far east controllers were selling in 
> > the thousands that might say a lot about that type of user interface.
> 
> 
> Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems to be 
> ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both input and 
> output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired in the context 
> of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of tablets.  I just 
> don't want to depend on wireless communications to control a machine 
> that can hurt me or someone else or cause other kinds of damage.

Need to send message periodically to keep machine moving and no risk picking up 
noise or signal from somewhere else. Probably need some kind of encryption and 
randomness to solve this. On top of this are the ordinary risk what happen then 
something fails, used long enough and it will sooner or later, at least me 
quite often use things until they break.


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Mark]

On 9/4/20 6:13 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:



Never said I changed from Mach 3 to LinuxCNC.  I've not owned a Windows
machine for the better part of 30 years.

Oops.  Sorry.  For some reason I thought you had.  What I'm looking for are 
reasons why perhaps (again other than a dislike of Windows) why people changed.



Controller didn't do what they wanted or needed it to do, 
dissatisfaction with the OS, or any other number of reasons.  I'm not in 
the market place trying to sell CNC controllers, so I settled on one 
that worked for me, and happily enough, it had a Linux back end so I 
wasn't forced to use Windows or a Mac, both of which I dislike.






Doesn't matter to me how many units that Aliexpress sold per year of that
controller.  Wouldn't work on my machine, so I have no need to even
consider it.

I understand that.  I think that Chris was basically trying to say the same 
thing.  If for example those types of far east controllers were selling in the 
thousands that might say a lot about that type of user interface.



Or that they were cheap and were installed on a tablet that seems to be 
ubiquitous these days.  Unfortunately, the interface, both input and 
output systems in the tablets leave a lot to be desired in the context 
of a machine shop, at least from what I've seen of tablets.  I just 
don't want to depend on wireless communications to control a machine 
that can hurt me or someone else or cause other kinds of damage.




OTOH, I've not seen that sort of a control system on any of the Grizzly Tools 
mills nor on any mills from Princess Auto or KMS tools here in Canada.  I do 
remember someone, maybe on the MACH group, stating they'd bought two for their 
mills and were extremely happy with them.  That they no longer had to muck with 
a PC and could continue making chips.

Even if I did build an ELS-MILL I would never expect anyone with a proper 
functioning system to change.  I know I wouldn't.For example I have a 
DRO-550 in addition to the two DRO350 kits.  I'm still using the first DRO-350 
I built.  The second was to be a spare.  The DRO-550 was to replace it but 
never did.



I couldn't remember the name yesterday, must have had a brain fart.  
Shumatech DRO's.  They were exactly what I needed at that time and they 
were priced right, and since I had an electronics background, building 
from a kit was not a problem for me.  They worked first time and have 
been ever since.  The DRO 350 started life on my mill, then got moved to 
my lathe when I built the DRO 550 and installed it on the mill.  
Honestly, the 550 is overkill for my uses on the mill, but he'd stopped 
making the 350 and I figured I'd keep up with the technology.





So I'm likely the last person to change easily.  That's why my PC on the mill 
is still dual boot.  Just in case I wanted to keep it the same as the CNC 
router which is still running MACH3 on WIN-XP and a Shuttle Xpress as the MPG.  
BTW, I really like that little unit.



I've never had a dual boot machine.  Never saw the need for it. Guess 
I'm old fashioned in a way.  I dedicate a machine to do one thing only.  
My laptop, running Linux Mint is my daily driver for emails, web 
browsing and futzing around.  My two other machines are dedicated to the 
shop, one as the machine controller and the other is my design machine.  
Each machine does what it does best and nothing else.





I think we're all basically in agreement that the design needs to be done 
first.  And before the design, a list of requirements.



It was never a debate about that.  My first reply was written tongue in 
cheek and it was assumed I didn't know what was involved in large, 
complex computing projects.  I've got lines of code running on 
satellites in space.  I do understand that it takes to go from ground 
zero to being in orbit, literally.  My comments were aimed towards all 
the times some folks here complaining that this or that doesn't exist, 
or why don't we push LinuxCNC into something that isn't LinuxCNC.  The 
code is there.  It's open source.  If folks don't like the direction 
it's heading, grab the code, make your mods, and realize your dreams.  
Nothing says you have to take LinuxCNC as it is and use it, though the 
vast majority of folks do.  If you want something different out of it, 
it's up to you to make the changes and get what you want.  The 
developers will do what they can within the context and the framework of 
what LinuxCNC is to take into your account wished for and needed 
changes, they've worked pretty damn hard over the years and delivered an 
astounding pile of software.


Tormach wanted something different, so they took the source and did with 
it what they wanted.  Yep, they paid for it.  Yep, they're reaping the 
rewards for doing what they did.  Good on them.  I think they did a good 
thing.  But they did it outside of the LinuxCNC development path.  They 
didn't come here complaining that LinuxCNC didn't fit their model of 
what they 

Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 September 2020 01:10:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 15:39 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 04 September 2020 13:20:26 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 10:02 -0700, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mark Wendt 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:41 PM Chris Albertson
> > > > >  > > > >
> > > > > wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > ...So, to make LinuxCNC nearly universal, hide it inside a
> > > > > > product that
> > > > >
> > > > > is
> > > > >
> > > > > > slick and easy to install and use.  No one should have to
> > > > > > look at HAL
> > > > >
> > > > > files
> > > > >
> > > > > > or know it runs on Linux.  They can learn, but if learning
> > > > > > is required it will always remain a niche product.
> > > > >
> > > > > Great stuff!  So, when are you going to get started on this
> > > > > project?
> > > >
> > > > I wrote that to show why it will never happen.   But also to
> > > > make a point that there does exist a pattern in the way complex
> > > > niche products become mainstream.   Usually, another layer is
> > > > built around it.PCs were kind of rare until Windows covered
> > > > over the DOS command line.
> > >
> > > This is questionable. I used a PC with UNIX in 1984 and all our
> > > clients had UNIX. No graphics interface, only command line,
> > > databases and ad-hoc graphic programs. This was before Windows, we
> > > had UNIX and DOS in dual-boot on some PCs, UNIX on the servers.
> > > However the Apple Mac already had a graphics interface :-)
> >
> > Our first experince with unix, was on an AT 3B2 CBS bought all the
> > affiliates as a message service.  It was not a good experience
> > because the 3b2 was built like most Apples, the first layer of dust
> > and cheap sleeve bearing fans killed a fan and usually started a
> > fire. I had a halon extinguisher sitting next to it that got used a
> > couple times. Then CBS bought us all new systems running on a pc,
> > running NT-3.5.1, which had a built in timer in its housekeeping
> > that deleted the main .dll about every 2 years. I called Redmond and
> > got called a pie rat because I wanted a copy of that .dll.  I washed
> > my hands of anything that looked like windows, somebody else could
> > have that headache and when I decided my amiga was on its last legs,
> > and built a pc from parts in '98, it got red hat 5.0 installed. My
> > property has a bounty on windows, and no windows I've ever been
> > forced to buy has lasted more than a week past the warranty. I have
> > one win-10 box, a $330 hp thing used as a display for drawing smith
> > charts of an AM broadcast tower, couldn't make the linux drivers
> > work. IMNSHO Win-10 is a damned poor substutute for Linux.  But you
> > ALL know that. :)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> My first experience with unix was on my IBM PC1, with one 5 1/4 floppy
> and a 32MB IBM hard disk. the OS was Interactive Systems Unix and DOS
> 3.3 in dual-boot. But this was after playing/programming four years
> with my Commodore 64.
> I still have the C64 in a drawer with all the devices and floppies :-)
> Also I have conserved the DOS Turbo Pascal 3.0 compiler and also Turbo
> Prolog, Fortran 77 4.1 and Autocad 2.9 :-)
>
I was the same with os9 for the trash 80 color computer, but after a 
nearly 35 year uptime, my beloved coco died, dried out caps and boots no 
more a/o about 90 days back. I'm torn between moving on, and taking the 
time to just shotgun every electrolytic in it.
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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