Re: [Emc-users] SPAM: Re: freecad, latest, starter tut?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2020 01:39:49 Frank Tkalcevic wrote:

> I was impressed that FreeCAD could import lots of different CAD
> formats.  I tried to use the CAM (Path) on an old STEP file, but I
> couldn't work out how to orient my part, and set the origin to the
> bottom-left top corner of the box stock.  Reading the forums, it seems
> that isn't possible (talk of local coordinate systems, but no
> implementation).
>
Export the stl for the part, and let the latest cura do that, its finally 
fixed.
> -Original Message-
> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2020 4:51 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] SPAM: Re: freecad, latest, starter tut?
>
> Generating g-code with Freecad is a bit of an arduous process. 
> Especially for the first time.  After you've made your 3d model, you
> have to convert that drawing into a part, then you have to create a
> Job amd set up your tool library, then add the tools to the Job, then
> configure the machine driver, then create all of the machining tool
> paths (using the Path Workbench.) Then only after you've created your
> tool paths, can you output g-code to a file.  (The only g-code I've
> made with Frecad was using version 0.18.)
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street 
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 11:09 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: SPAM: Re: [Emc-users] freecad, latest, starter tut?
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> On Sunday 20 September 2020 10:04:48 Martin Dobbins wrote:
> > freecad has an export menu that claims to do gcode, but it does not
> > create the code, nor does it report any error I understand when
> > going thru the motions. freecad screenshot attached. A simple torus
> > shape, 50mm in diameter, 35mm tall, with a 28mm center hole.
> >
> > Good morning Gene,
> >
> > I've looked through the midden heap of my drag knife folder and I
> > have been unable to locate a file with g code.  This bugged me
> > because I *know* I saw readable g code from that project, then i
> > remembered how I had seen g-code (on screen) which is pretty much as
> > described in this video:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWU621P0gZk
> >
> > I know I expected to have human readable code at the end of this
> > project (pity I didn't complete it) because I'm working on a desktop
> > that is not connected to the CNC so I expected a text file at the
> > end that I could edit and rename to a .ngc file to transfer to the
> > CNC machine.
> >
> > If you can wait, I'll have a go at replicating the torus you made
> > and see if I can send the g code.  If that works I will (try) to
> > tell you how I did it.  Later today, I hope.
> >
> > Martin
>
> Not that big a hurry Martin, I don't have the motor in hand yet that I
> plan on using. I have found it from other vendors so all is not lost.
> This vendor I now recall burnt me several hundred dollars when I
> bought a 6040 mill for my Christmas present almost 2 years ago. I had
> to ditch the electronics and replace that whole box and its contents.
> Around $400 of an $1200 purchase. Runs nicely now exceptfor an actual
> speed tally on the water cooled spindle which has no encoder, so its
> displaying the commanded speed to the vfd. Ought to be an echo from
> the vfd, but I don't know how to acquire it for linuxcnc.  Cheap clone
> vfd.
>
> In the meantime I've found that freecad treated my diameters as radii,
> so the posted image is too big by 2x for xy.  Its a 50mm diameter
> pipe, 35mm long, with a 28mm diameter bore.  Makes sense, but big
> dummy at work. :-)
>
> Thank you Martin.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control for high speed machines

[dave engvall]

Hi again,
Indeed it is pretty hard to use spindle load if is doesn't change thru 
the corner. I suspect it does on smaller machines but that is not a 
generalized solution.
Just for experimental purposes it might be interesting to decrease the 
velocity thru a corner see if it helps. Lacking the adding another row 
to the matrix should control jerk but the may not be the whole solution 
when dealing with a change in direction. So much to learn so little time 
(and energy).
I suspect the 'big boys' do some pretty fancy adaptation to get good 
smoothing thru the corners. Of course it is all propitiatory and those 
patents take a long time to run out. Silvia McFarland (sp?) in her 
masters thesis (Uni BC) used sin accel rather than trapezoidal. Might 
help. I think traj control get much more critical as velocities get 
really radical. Some of the new Brothers with 30 tapers absolutely 
scream. When the machinist describes stepping back from the machine when 
the tool moves toward him then is must be really impressive.


Dave

On 9/21/20 4:55 PM, andrew beck wrote:

hey dave

I hear you.  I might get good at coding myself soon..  but would love to
solve the problem.

I don't think the spindle load could really help much though.

I am machining plastic and aluminium and the spindle load doesn't
noticeably change in corners.  I more need a limit on the initial
acceleration for a split second I suppose

or go the full way and have something that analyzes the G code path and
calculates the best speed and path for the machine

regards

Andrew

regards



On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:35 AM dave engvall  wrote:


HI Andrew,
Just because I have ideas does not imply I can implement them. ;-)
However, I believe there is a velocity pin that might be used to slow
down in corners. Since the spindle loads up going thru corners it may be
possible to monitor spindle load and back off velocity thru the corner
which should make milling a bit smoother. Adding jerk control involves ,
as you know, adding another order to motion. (see first sentence). ;-)
A lot of bright people are involved in linuxcnc but they all have their
own pet projects. Just the way it goes.
Hang in there, your heart is in the right place.

Dave

On 9/20/20 8:19 PM, andrew beck wrote:

Hey guys

just a few thoughts here.

I have a high speed cnc machining center (cnc mill)

it has 16mm pitch ballscrews and weighs 6ton

linuxcnc is awesome and does a great job controlling it.  I make plastic
injection molds and lots of 3d machining all the time.  plus all the

little

jobs that a cnc is great for.

I think the only thing lacking from linuxcnc for my use is some sort of
jerk control for corners.  there may already be something around that
solves the issue though without jerk control.  so what happens is when

the

machine changes direction the whole machine vibrates and jumps around.

its

quite bad.  enough that I may rubber mount the electrical box lol.

I have accelerations of 750 (i think it is mm/sec2)

and max rapids of 8m/min

I would love to turn those up to like 25m/min rapid and 2000mm/sec2
accelerations

has any one tried any form of jerk control yet on linuxcnc?  or wants to
have a play and code it.  I have 3 6 ton cnc machines that will all use
linuxcnc so very keen to solve this jerk control issue.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] SPAM: Re: freecad, latest, starter tut?

[Frank Tkalcevic]

I was impressed that FreeCAD could import lots of different CAD formats.  I
tried to use the CAM (Path) on an old STEP file, but I couldn't work out how
to orient my part, and set the origin to the bottom-left top corner of the
box stock.  Reading the forums, it seems that isn't possible (talk of local
coordinate systems, but no implementation).  

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2020 4:51 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] SPAM: Re: freecad, latest, starter tut?

Generating g-code with Freecad is a bit of an arduous process.  Especially
for the first time.  After you've made your 3d model, you have to convert
that drawing into a part, then you have to create a Job amd set up your tool
library, then add the tools to the Job, then configure the machine driver,
then create all of the machining tool paths (using the Path Workbench.)
Then only after you've created your tool paths, can you output g-code to a
file.  (The only g-code I've made with Frecad was using version 0.18.)
 
Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 11:09 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: SPAM: Re: [Emc-users] freecad, latest, starter tut?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Sunday 20 September 2020 10:04:48 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> freecad has an export menu that claims to do gcode, but it does not 
> create the code, nor does it report any error I understand when going 
> thru the motions. freecad screenshot attached. A simple torus shape, 
> 50mm in diameter, 35mm tall, with a 28mm center hole.
>
> Good morning Gene,
>
> I've looked through the midden heap of my drag knife folder and I have 
> been unable to locate a file with g code.  This bugged me because I
> *know* I saw readable g code from that project, then i remembered how 
> I had seen g-code (on screen) which is pretty much as described in 
> this video:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWU621P0gZk
>
> I know I expected to have human readable code at the end of this 
> project (pity I didn't complete it) because I'm working on a desktop 
> that is not connected to the CNC so I expected a text file at the end 
> that I could edit and rename to a .ngc file to transfer to the CNC 
> machine.
>
> If you can wait, I'll have a go at replicating the torus you made and 
> see if I can send the g code.  If that works I will (try) to tell you 
> how I did it.  Later today, I hope.
>
> Martin

Not that big a hurry Martin, I don't have the motor in hand yet that I plan
on using. I have found it from other vendors so all is not lost.
This vendor I now recall burnt me several hundred dollars when I bought a
6040 mill for my Christmas present almost 2 years ago. I had to ditch the
electronics and replace that whole box and its contents. Around $400 of an
$1200 purchase. Runs nicely now exceptfor an actual speed tally on the water
cooled spindle which has no encoder, so its displaying the commanded speed
to the vfd. Ought to be an echo from the vfd, but I don't know how to
acquire it for linuxcnc.  Cheap clone vfd.

In the meantime I've found that freecad treated my diameters as radii, so
the posted image is too big by 2x for xy.  Its a 50mm diameter pipe, 35mm
long, with a 28mm diameter bore.  Makes sense, but big dummy at work. :-)

Thank you Martin.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[R C]

Hello,


I was away for a while, I saw a lot of replies/suggestions on the 
"subject".   I am going to try and see if I can make the part (a shaft) 
in freecad, and see what I can do with it.



As for the other software,  well I won't be making money of it, It's 
just a hobby,  BUT  I don't really want to set up another machine or so 
just for  running something else.



I was thinking,  that since  a lathe (well my lathe)  has a X and Z 
axis, if I'd make a part in 'that plane" in freecad,  that it might be 
possible to use that?  I saw a suggestion that there might a a 
part/plugin in the path workbench.



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control for high speed machines

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

My first innocent thought was to use a DDT component somehow but I guess
this involves fgpa programming if you're using Mesa boards.

It sounded simple at first but as you think it through it you realize it's
a pain in the ass. Mostly because my only fpga experience is controlling
displays lol.

I really need to resume my practicing with that digilent board someday...



Leonardo Marsaglia

El lun., 21 sep. 2020 21:00, andrew beck 
escribió:

> hey dave
>
> I hear you.  I might get good at coding myself soon..  but would love to
> solve the problem.
>
> I don't think the spindle load could really help much though.
>
> I am machining plastic and aluminium and the spindle load doesn't
> noticeably change in corners.  I more need a limit on the initial
> acceleration for a split second I suppose
>
> or go the full way and have something that analyzes the G code path and
> calculates the best speed and path for the machine
>
> regards
>
> Andrew
>
> regards
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:35 AM dave engvall 
> wrote:
>
> > HI Andrew,
> > Just because I have ideas does not imply I can implement them. ;-)
> > However, I believe there is a velocity pin that might be used to slow
> > down in corners. Since the spindle loads up going thru corners it may be
> > possible to monitor spindle load and back off velocity thru the corner
> > which should make milling a bit smoother. Adding jerk control involves ,
> > as you know, adding another order to motion. (see first sentence). ;-)
> > A lot of bright people are involved in linuxcnc but they all have their
> > own pet projects. Just the way it goes.
> > Hang in there, your heart is in the right place.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 9/20/20 8:19 PM, andrew beck wrote:
> > > Hey guys
> > >
> > > just a few thoughts here.
> > >
> > > I have a high speed cnc machining center (cnc mill)
> > >
> > > it has 16mm pitch ballscrews and weighs 6ton
> > >
> > > linuxcnc is awesome and does a great job controlling it.  I make
> plastic
> > > injection molds and lots of 3d machining all the time.  plus all the
> > little
> > > jobs that a cnc is great for.
> > >
> > > I think the only thing lacking from linuxcnc for my use is some sort of
> > > jerk control for corners.  there may already be something around that
> > > solves the issue though without jerk control.  so what happens is when
> > the
> > > machine changes direction the whole machine vibrates and jumps around.
> > its
> > > quite bad.  enough that I may rubber mount the electrical box lol.
> > >
> > > I have accelerations of 750 (i think it is mm/sec2)
> > >
> > > and max rapids of 8m/min
> > >
> > > I would love to turn those up to like 25m/min rapid and 2000mm/sec2
> > > accelerations
> > >
> > > has any one tried any form of jerk control yet on linuxcnc?  or wants
> to
> > > have a play and code it.  I have 3 6 ton cnc machines that will all use
> > > linuxcnc so very keen to solve this jerk control issue.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control for high speed machines

[andrew beck]

hey dave

I hear you.  I might get good at coding myself soon..  but would love to
solve the problem.

I don't think the spindle load could really help much though.

I am machining plastic and aluminium and the spindle load doesn't
noticeably change in corners.  I more need a limit on the initial
acceleration for a split second I suppose

or go the full way and have something that analyzes the G code path and
calculates the best speed and path for the machine

regards

Andrew

regards



On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:35 AM dave engvall  wrote:

> HI Andrew,
> Just because I have ideas does not imply I can implement them. ;-)
> However, I believe there is a velocity pin that might be used to slow
> down in corners. Since the spindle loads up going thru corners it may be
> possible to monitor spindle load and back off velocity thru the corner
> which should make milling a bit smoother. Adding jerk control involves ,
> as you know, adding another order to motion. (see first sentence). ;-)
> A lot of bright people are involved in linuxcnc but they all have their
> own pet projects. Just the way it goes.
> Hang in there, your heart is in the right place.
>
> Dave
>
> On 9/20/20 8:19 PM, andrew beck wrote:
> > Hey guys
> >
> > just a few thoughts here.
> >
> > I have a high speed cnc machining center (cnc mill)
> >
> > it has 16mm pitch ballscrews and weighs 6ton
> >
> > linuxcnc is awesome and does a great job controlling it.  I make plastic
> > injection molds and lots of 3d machining all the time.  plus all the
> little
> > jobs that a cnc is great for.
> >
> > I think the only thing lacking from linuxcnc for my use is some sort of
> > jerk control for corners.  there may already be something around that
> > solves the issue though without jerk control.  so what happens is when
> the
> > machine changes direction the whole machine vibrates and jumps around.
> its
> > quite bad.  enough that I may rubber mount the electrical box lol.
> >
> > I have accelerations of 750 (i think it is mm/sec2)
> >
> > and max rapids of 8m/min
> >
> > I would love to turn those up to like 25m/min rapid and 2000mm/sec2
> > accelerations
> >
> > has any one tried any form of jerk control yet on linuxcnc?  or wants to
> > have a play and code it.  I have 3 6 ton cnc machines that will all use
> > linuxcnc so very keen to solve this jerk control issue.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control for high speed machines

[dave engvall]

HI Andrew,
Just because I have ideas does not imply I can implement them. ;-) 
However, I believe there is a velocity pin that might be used to slow 
down in corners. Since the spindle loads up going thru corners it may be 
possible to monitor spindle load and back off velocity thru the corner 
which should make milling a bit smoother. Adding jerk control involves , 
as you know, adding another order to motion. (see first sentence). ;-)
A lot of bright people are involved in linuxcnc but they all have their 
own pet projects. Just the way it goes.

Hang in there, your heart is in the right place.

Dave

On 9/20/20 8:19 PM, andrew beck wrote:

Hey guys

just a few thoughts here.

I have a high speed cnc machining center (cnc mill)

it has 16mm pitch ballscrews and weighs 6ton

linuxcnc is awesome and does a great job controlling it.  I make plastic
injection molds and lots of 3d machining all the time.  plus all the little
jobs that a cnc is great for.

I think the only thing lacking from linuxcnc for my use is some sort of
jerk control for corners.  there may already be something around that
solves the issue though without jerk control.  so what happens is when the
machine changes direction the whole machine vibrates and jumps around.  its
quite bad.  enough that I may rubber mount the electrical box lol.

I have accelerations of 750 (i think it is mm/sec2)

and max rapids of 8m/min

I would love to turn those up to like 25m/min rapid and 2000mm/sec2
accelerations

has any one tried any form of jerk control yet on linuxcnc?  or wants to
have a play and code it.  I have 3 6 ton cnc machines that will all use
linuxcnc so very keen to solve this jerk control issue.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] SPAM: Re: freecad, latest, starter tut?

[Todd Zuercher]

Generating g-code with Freecad is a bit of an arduous process.  Especially for 
the first time.  After you've made your 3d model, you have to convert that 
drawing into a part, then you have to create a Job amd set up your tool 
library, then add the tools to the Job, then configure the machine driver, then 
create all of the machining tool paths (using the Path Workbench.)  Then only 
after you've created your tool paths, can you output g-code to a file.  (The 
only g-code I've made with Frecad was using version 0.18.)
 
Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 11:09 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: SPAM: Re: [Emc-users] freecad, latest, starter tut?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Sunday 20 September 2020 10:04:48 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> freecad has an export menu that claims to do gcode, but it does not 
> create the code, nor does it report any error I understand when going 
> thru the motions. freecad screenshot attached. A simple torus shape, 
> 50mm in diameter, 35mm tall, with a 28mm center hole.
>
> Good morning Gene,
>
> I've looked through the midden heap of my drag knife folder and I have 
> been unable to locate a file with g code.  This bugged me because I
> *know* I saw readable g code from that project, then i remembered how 
> I had seen g-code (on screen) which is pretty much as described in 
> this video:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWU621P0gZk
>
> I know I expected to have human readable code at the end of this 
> project (pity I didn't complete it) because I'm working on a desktop 
> that is not connected to the CNC so I expected a text file at the end 
> that I could edit and rename to a .ngc file to transfer to the CNC 
> machine.
>
> If you can wait, I'll have a go at replicating the torus you made and 
> see if I can send the g code.  If that works I will (try) to tell you 
> how I did it.  Later today, I hope.
>
> Martin

Not that big a hurry Martin, I don't have the motor in hand yet that I plan on 
using. I have found it from other vendors so all is not lost.
This vendor I now recall burnt me several hundred dollars when I bought a 6040 
mill for my Christmas present almost 2 years ago. I had to ditch the 
electronics and replace that whole box and its contents. Around $400 of an 
$1200 purchase. Runs nicely now exceptfor an actual speed tally on the water 
cooled spindle which has no encoder, so its displaying the commanded speed to 
the vfd. Ought to be an echo from the vfd, but I don't know how to acquire it 
for linuxcnc.  Cheap clone vfd.

In the meantime I've found that freecad treated my diameters as radii, so the 
posted image is too big by 2x for xy.  Its a 50mm diameter pipe, 35mm long, 
with a 28mm diameter bore.  Makes sense, but big dummy at work. :-)

Thank you Martin.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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