Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Todd Zuercher]

The Craftsman version (exact same saw I think) costs a little less than the 
Stanly.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-22-in-Blade-x-8-in-D-Metal-Miter-Box/1000595431

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users  
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2022 10:37 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Gregg Eshelman 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

The Stanley 20-800 should do the job. Apparently Home Despot has discontinued 
selling that one, or any other hand powered precision miter box / saw. It's 
either the cheap plastic crap that can't cut a decent angle or the big power 
circular saws that cut out huge kerfs and are no good for cutting small or 
delicate materials.

But the Stanley 20-800 and similar from that and other brands are available 
many other places.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:17:36 AM MST, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:

I bet you could print a better tool than this.
homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Miter-Box
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.homedepot.com%2Fp%2FStanley-Miter-Box-STHT20360%2F311276301data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C7e8ea097adfc416923a408dad4180d3d%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638055497040053622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=DDIDJN87t9D%2BwpBvQw8X09WJdUZJ1Tr5kL%2FjhHL8AGQ%3Dreserved=0>
Use a fine-tooth hack saw.  It is easier to cut a fiber tube than a same-size 
hardwood dowel or same-size steel tube.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:38 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 12/1/22 00:47, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a 
> > door frame.  Use a miter saw.  A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well 
> > for carbon fiber.
> >
>
> My mitre saw is a 12" Bosch chop saw, the fawncy high $ articulated one.
> And I've a new carbide blade. New & carbide=dull.


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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

The Stanley 20-800 should do the job. Apparently Home Despot has discontinued 
selling that one, or any other hand powered precision miter box / saw. It's 
either the cheap plastic crap that can't cut a decent angle or the big power 
circular saws that cut out huge kerfs and are no good for cutting small or 
delicate materials.

But the Stanley 20-800 and similar from that and other brands are available 
many other places.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:17:36 AM MST, Chris Albertson 
 wrote: 

I bet you could print a better tool than this.
homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Miter-Box

Use a fine-tooth hack saw.  It is easier to cut a fiber tube than a
same-size hardwood dowel or same-size steel tube.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:38 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 12/1/22 00:47, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a door
> > frame.  Use a miter saw.  A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well for
> > carbon fiber.
> >
>
> My mitre saw is a 12" Bosch chop saw, the fawncy high $ articulated one.
> And I've a new carbide blade. New & carbide=dull.


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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 13:50, Greg Bernard wrote:

Nothing special about cutting CF, I routinely cut it for guitar neck
reinforcement using a chopsaw with a standard fine tooth carbide blade.
Since you're cutting a thin-wall section it might be a good idea to place a
close fitting wood block inside to prevent any blow-out. It will dull
blades if you're cutting a lot of it but I don't cut enough of it for that
to be an issue. .


Thank you Greg, that's exactly the usage I like to read about. I thought 
about printing a plug, but that is an even better idea. Run any old 
sticker thru a planer to fit. Love it.


Take care & stay well, Greg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 12:14, Chris Albertson wrote:

I bet you could print a better tool than this.
homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Miter-Box

Use a fine-tooth hack saw.   It is easier to cut a fiber tube than a
same-size hardwood dowel or same-size steel tube.


Didja ever try to use one of those Chris? The coefficient of friction 
between the steel of a backsaw, and that plastic is way the heck and 
gone over 1.00. Even waxed for lube, when it hangs it will do everything 
but break your wrist. Good idea, bad plastic.


Take care & stay well, Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Greg Bernard]

Nothing special about cutting CF, I routinely cut it for guitar neck
reinforcement using a chopsaw with a standard fine tooth carbide blade.
Since you're cutting a thin-wall section it might be a good idea to place a
close fitting wood block inside to prevent any blow-out. It will dull
blades if you're cutting a lot of it but I don't cut enough of it for that
to be an issue. .

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:17 AM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> I bet you could print a better tool than this.
> homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Miter-Box
> 
> Use a fine-tooth hack saw.   It is easier to cut a fiber tube than a
> same-size hardwood dowel or same-size steel tube.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:38 AM gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > On 12/1/22 00:47, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a door
> > > frame.   Use a miter saw.   A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well for
> > > carbon fiber.
> > >
> >
> > My mitre saw is a 12" Bosch chop saw, the fawncy high $ articulated one.
> > And I've a new carbide blade. New & carbide=dull.
> >
> > > If you don't have a miter saw, print a plastic guide block that holds
> the
> > > tube and has a slot for your hacksaw.
> >
> > I have considered that too, but in the form of an 18x18mm stuffer that's
> > sacrificial.
> > >
> > > Finish with a sanding block to make the edge nice.   I've cut a lot of
> > > fiber tubes, sharp saws work well. but glass and other fibers dull
> tools
> > > really fast.
> > >
> > > You can make a really strong part by gluing fiber tube into 3D printed
> > > blocks
> > >
> >
> > That is essentially what I have in mind. But moving the tube sideways so
> > one run of the X belt runs inside it. Shorten it maybe 10 mm, and mill a
> > couple slots in the other ends idler so it remains adjustable.
> > Shortening it a few mm will lengthen the belt and narrow the carriage,
> > gaining back some X room lost by the basic design and even more lost by
> > my 4 wheel carriage design.
> >
> > Somewhere along the line, move the x home sw to the left end where they
> > were too cheap to use 6" more wire to reach it. That will require
> > rebuilding marlin or klipper. Shrug. Turn the whole axis end for end and
> > put it in some cable chain I already have. Neat but flying weight for
> > the Y motor to throw around & its in trouble already on an Ender5plus.
> > It loses Y home, I suspect because the way undersized psu is folding
> > back when using gyroid infill at more than 60 for speed.. Everything
> > else it can run at 200 or more. When I get done playing, the bed heat
> > and motor load will be removed from that supply, bed heat will be 62VAC,
> > and motor power will be a 650 watt 48 volt supply.
> >
> > Take care & stay well.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >   - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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>


-- 
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is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Chris Albertson]

I bet you could print a better tool than this.
homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Miter-Box

Use a fine-tooth hack saw.   It is easier to cut a fiber tube than a
same-size hardwood dowel or same-size steel tube.



On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:38 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 12/1/22 00:47, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a door
> > frame.   Use a miter saw.   A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well for
> > carbon fiber.
> >
>
> My mitre saw is a 12" Bosch chop saw, the fawncy high $ articulated one.
> And I've a new carbide blade. New & carbide=dull.
>
> > If you don't have a miter saw, print a plastic guide block that holds the
> > tube and has a slot for your hacksaw.
>
> I have considered that too, but in the form of an 18x18mm stuffer that's
> sacrificial.
> >
> > Finish with a sanding block to make the edge nice.   I've cut a lot of
> > fiber tubes, sharp saws work well. but glass and other fibers dull tools
> > really fast.
> >
> > You can make a really strong part by gluing fiber tube into 3D printed
> > blocks
> >
>
> That is essentially what I have in mind. But moving the tube sideways so
> one run of the X belt runs inside it. Shorten it maybe 10 mm, and mill a
> couple slots in the other ends idler so it remains adjustable.
> Shortening it a few mm will lengthen the belt and narrow the carriage,
> gaining back some X room lost by the basic design and even more lost by
> my 4 wheel carriage design.
>
> Somewhere along the line, move the x home sw to the left end where they
> were too cheap to use 6" more wire to reach it. That will require
> rebuilding marlin or klipper. Shrug. Turn the whole axis end for end and
> put it in some cable chain I already have. Neat but flying weight for
> the Y motor to throw around & its in trouble already on an Ender5plus.
> It loses Y home, I suspect because the way undersized psu is folding
> back when using gyroid infill at more than 60 for speed.. Everything
> else it can run at 200 or more. When I get done playing, the bed heat
> and motor load will be removed from that supply, bed heat will be 62VAC,
> and motor power will be a 650 watt 48 volt supply.
>
> Take care & stay well.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 08:52, Les Newell wrote:
I've had best results with abrasives. A Dremel, angle grinder cut-off 
wheel or CBN wheel should work. I generally use a cut-off wheel and 
square it up with abrasive paper if needed. No need for internal support 
if you are gentle. Be very careful of the dust - it does similar things 
to your lungs to asbestos.


  Is this tube pultruded or laid up? If it's a uniform black it's 
probably pultruded. If you can see the weave it's laid up. Pultruded 
tube is very directional. The majority of the fibres are aligned along 
it's length so it's strong in bending, tension and compression along 
it's length. Sideways crush loads however will break it easily. If you 
bolt it down you must use a solid plug to support the walls. Laid up 
tube is much more expensive but it is stronger and generally more 
resistant to side crush loads.


Les


That is what this is, laid up. Pretty stuff. If I can control the chop 
saw slow enough. Straight down chop probably better. I sure wish you 
could buy a carbide blade that was actually sharp. CBN I have but its 
too small for anything but a teeny router to spin. Its also gawdawful 
$$$, That is why my original idea was the chuck it up in a 4 jaw, put 
the CBN wheel in that die grinder and let the lathe cut it off. I can 
feed X as slow as .0002" per dial click. And that disk is only .030" 
thick. I have a teeny router, and when the Saphire-5 printer gets here, 
I can make a mount to hold it in a QCTH holder. Slow but perfect. Or I 
could use the die grinder as I already have a mount for it, used it to 
fix the bent spindles mt5 bore years ago. I can also cobble up a vacuum 
fitting to collect the dust, which hopefully the best HEPA grade of 
shop-vac filter will stop.


The chop saws dust bag isn't that effective a collector so I'll skip 
that test.


Take care & stay well, Les.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 05:17, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

Do you have a precision miter saw like this, or similar?
https://toolsandmore.us/stanley-20-800-miter-saw.aspx <-open box sale $29.95

No. And blades for such are mail order only in these parts.


Very thin, fine teeth, minimal set so it cuts a very narrow kerf. As for how 
many cuts the blade will last cutting carbon fiber???

Not long. In fact, the thought of cutting with a welded binder strap 
whose edge was annointed with a rouge stick crossed my mind, but was 
discarded. It has been done though in the Tool and Die shop at Solar 
Aircraft in the 1950, to cut titanium when they ran out of band saw 
blades, worked surprisingly well in fact. In those days, bandsaws came 
with their own blade welder, and steel binder strap was scrap they had 
an endless supply of.



On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 09:07:44 PM MST, gene heskett 
 wrote:

Greetings all;

An unusual question. How to cut, neatly, and squarely, a 20mm square
carbon fiber tube to length, say 550mm out of an 800mm tube. I'm making
a linear rail bearing X axis for two of my 3d printers,

I have a die grinder that I can mount in a quick change holder, and a 2"
by 30 thou CBN disk and 1/4" arbor, and a 4 jaw chuck on my Sheldon.

Do I need to print an 18mm square plug to insert into this tubing to
support the 1mm thick tubing walls, or can a relatively light grip be
enough to hold it fixed while I turn slow and cut it off with the CBN
wheel running at about half line voltage in the die grinder?

All I can see in my minds eye is a hugely ragged edge cutting it by hand
with a hacksaw.

Better ideas anybody?


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.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Les Newell]

I've had best results with abrasives. A Dremel, angle grinder cut-off 
wheel or CBN wheel should work. I generally use a cut-off wheel and 
square it up with abrasive paper if needed. No need for internal support 
if you are gentle. Be very careful of the dust - it does similar things 
to your lungs to asbestos.


 Is this tube pultruded or laid up? If it's a uniform black it's 
probably pultruded. If you can see the weave it's laid up. Pultruded 
tube is very directional. The majority of the fibres are aligned along 
it's length so it's strong in bending, tension and compression along 
it's length. Sideways crush loads however will break it easily. If you 
bolt it down you must use a solid plug to support the walls. Laid up 
tube is much more expensive but it is stronger and generally more 
resistant to side crush loads.


Les

On 01/12/2022 04:05, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

An unusual question. How to cut, neatly, and squarely, a 20mm square 
carbon fiber tube to length, say 550mm out of an 800mm tube. I'm 
making a linear rail bearing X axis for two of my 3d printers,


I have a die grinder that I can mount in a quick change holder, and a 
2" by 30 thou CBN disk and 1/4" arbor, and a 4 jaw chuck on my Sheldon.


Do I need to print an 18mm square plug to insert into this tubing to 
support the 1mm thick tubing walls, or can a relatively light grip be 
enough to hold it fixed while I turn slow and cut it off with the CBN 
wheel running at about half line voltage in the die grinder?


All I can see in my minds eye is a hugely ragged edge cutting it by 
hand with a hacksaw.


Better ideas anybody?

Thanks All.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.





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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 00:47, Chris Albertson wrote:

Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a door
frame.   Use a miter saw.   A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well for
carbon fiber.



My mitre saw is a 12" Bosch chop saw, the fawncy high $ articulated one. 
And I've a new carbide blade. New & carbide=dull.



If you don't have a miter saw, print a plastic guide block that holds the
tube and has a slot for your hacksaw.


I have considered that too, but in the form of an 18x18mm stuffer that's 
sacrificial.


Finish with a sanding block to make the edge nice.   I've cut a lot of
fiber tubes, sharp saws work well. but glass and other fibers dull tools
really fast.

You can make a really strong part by gluing fiber tube into 3D printed
blocks



That is essentially what I have in mind. But moving the tube sideways so 
one run of the X belt runs inside it. Shorten it maybe 10 mm, and mill a 
couple slots in the other ends idler so it remains adjustable. 
Shortening it a few mm will lengthen the belt and narrow the carriage, 
gaining back some X room lost by the basic design and even more lost by 
my 4 wheel carriage design.


Somewhere along the line, move the x home sw to the left end where they 
were too cheap to use 6" more wire to reach it. That will require 
rebuilding marlin or klipper. Shrug. Turn the whole axis end for end and 
put it in some cable chain I already have. Neat but flying weight for 
the Y motor to throw around & its in trouble already on an Ender5plus. 
It loses Y home, I suspect because the way undersized psu is folding 
back when using gyroid infill at more than 60 for speed.. Everything 
else it can run at 200 or more. When I get done playing, the bed heat 
and motor load will be removed from that supply, bed heat will be 62VAC, 
and motor power will be a 650 watt 48 volt supply.


Take care & stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Do you have a precision miter saw like this, or similar?
https://toolsandmore.us/stanley-20-800-miter-saw.aspx <-open box sale $29.95

Very thin, fine teeth, minimal set so it cuts a very narrow kerf. As for how 
many cuts the blade will last cutting carbon fiber??? 

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 09:07:44 PM MST, gene heskett 
 wrote: 

Greetings all;

An unusual question. How to cut, neatly, and squarely, a 20mm square 
carbon fiber tube to length, say 550mm out of an 800mm tube. I'm making 
a linear rail bearing X axis for two of my 3d printers,

I have a die grinder that I can mount in a quick change holder, and a 2" 
by 30 thou CBN disk and 1/4" arbor, and a 4 jaw chuck on my Sheldon.

Do I need to print an 18mm square plug to insert into this tubing to 
support the 1mm thick tubing walls, or can a relatively light grip be 
enough to hold it fixed while I turn slow and cut it off with the CBN 
wheel running at about half line voltage in the die grinder?

All I can see in my minds eye is a hugely ragged edge cutting it by hand 
with a hacksaw.

Better ideas anybody?


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Re: [Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[Chris Albertson]

Cutting square tubing is no harder than cutting molding around a door
frame.   Use a miter saw.   A fine tooth hacksaw blade works well for
carbon fiber.

If you don't have a miter saw, print a plastic guide block that holds the
tube and has a slot for your hacksaw.

Finish with a sanding block to make the edge nice.   I've cut a lot of
fiber tubes, sharp saws work well. but glass and other fibers dull tools
really fast.

You can make a really strong part by gluing fiber tube into 3D printed
blocks

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 8:08 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> An unusual question. How to cut, neatly, and squarely, a 20mm square
> carbon fiber tube to length, say 550mm out of an 800mm tube. I'm making
> a linear rail bearing X axis for two of my 3d printers,
>
> I have a die grinder that I can mount in a quick change holder, and a 2"
> by 30 thou CBN disk and 1/4" arbor, and a 4 jaw chuck on my Sheldon.
>
> Do I need to print an 18mm square plug to insert into this tubing to
> support the 1mm thick tubing walls, or can a relatively light grip be
> enough to hold it fixed while I turn slow and cut it off with the CBN
> wheel running at about half line voltage in the die grinder?
>
> All I can see in my minds eye is a hugely ragged edge cutting it by hand
> with a hacksaw.
>
> Better ideas anybody?
>
> Thanks All.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[Emc-users] ? cutting a square carbon fiber tube ?

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

An unusual question. How to cut, neatly, and squarely, a 20mm square 
carbon fiber tube to length, say 550mm out of an 800mm tube. I'm making 
a linear rail bearing X axis for two of my 3d printers,


I have a die grinder that I can mount in a quick change holder, and a 2" 
by 30 thou CBN disk and 1/4" arbor, and a 4 jaw chuck on my Sheldon.


Do I need to print an 18mm square plug to insert into this tubing to 
support the 1mm thick tubing walls, or can a relatively light grip be 
enough to hold it fixed while I turn slow and cut it off with the CBN 
wheel running at about half line voltage in the die grinder?


All I can see in my minds eye is a hugely ragged edge cutting it by hand 
with a hacksaw.


Better ideas anybody?

Thanks All.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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