Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
Many moons ago - I was advised PH is very important to the process of minimizing allergic reactions to soluble coolant in machine tools. We started a program to maintain the coolant PH between 8.0 and 8.5. This eliminated machine rust problems and operator rash problems but not necessarily odor problems. A swimming pool store will have chemicals to help raise the PH. While it seems to take a lot of the chemical to raise the PH to the desired level a couple of teaspoons of vinegar will lower the PH in a 100 gallon reservoir a drastic amount. An eyedropper for the vinegar will be helpful. This was a daily process at every machine for us. It takes diligent attention to maintain the PH level. I always thought a central coolant system with automatic PH control would be a very good thing. Filters, automatic concentration control, PH control and continuous coolant flow through the machine reservoirs would be the ideal situation. Very rarely seen. The odor problems were minimized by maintaining the coolant concentration at the manufacturers recommended level. You can deviate from the level very rapidly as evaporation increases the coolant concentration and adding coolant at the correct concentration will not fix the problem. Adding too much unmixed coolant can rapidly move the concentration level too high. People with minimal quantity use requirements and sometimes days or weeks between machine runs should consider Hangsterfer's coolants. I found them to be odor free even after sitting for two or three months. You should consider a coolant skimmer as their coolants reject oils and contaminants very well and will develop a skin on top. They still don't smell but the crud on top LOOKS DANGEROUS!!! I didn't have any problems with the crud but it sure looked bad. Hangsterfer's is expensive but worth it. The aggravation minimization and cursing minimization is worth something. HTH - YMMV thanks Stuart On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:15 AM Sven Wesley wrote: > Many moons ago, but sure we did experience some bad allergy reactions from > cutting fluid. Some fluids are prone bacteria growth and if the system > isn't cleaned regularly you may end up with a biohazard de luxe. > Don't ask me how I know, but the sanitation of 25 machines sized workshop > took a while > > Den tors 22 okt. 2020 kl 20:25 skrev Nicklas SB Karlsson : > > > In some oils there are PAHs polyaromatic hydrocarbons and these have > > been linked to some forms of cancer > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon Then > > reading about Creosot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote I found > > there is difference in chemical properties between coal-tar and wood-tar > > Creosot and I also expect difference in chemical properties between > > mineral oil and vegetable oil. > > > > Expect food oil to be relatively harmless also then used as a cutting > > fluid, no rust and does not freeze during winter. Maybe bacterial growth > > might be a problem but in such case I could kill them by heating > > regularly. Do not freeze during winter is an important future for me as > > is now. > > > > > > Den 2020-10-21 kl. 21:44, skrev marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk: > > > On 2020-10-21 20:10, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: > > >> I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any > > >> experience? > > >> > > > I understand the problem has been that soluble cutting oil tends to > > > drench the operator at waist level (on older machines which do not > > > have total enclosures). That led to a noted connection between cancer > > > and soluble oil. > > > I don't know of any link between neat cutting oil and medical > > > conditions, but it is an oil, so the usual hazards apply. > > > > > > I have serious reservations about the current fashion for atomised > > > mist spray coolant, which I believe to be a real danger to the lungs > > > and possibly the eyes, nose and mouth. I have not seen any medical > > > studies on this, but atomised fluids of all sorts are generally a bad > > > idea. > > > Just my opinion. > > > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Addressee is the intended audience. If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private correspondence. Thank you for honoring my wish. ___ Emc-users mailing
Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
Many moons ago, but sure we did experience some bad allergy reactions from cutting fluid. Some fluids are prone bacteria growth and if the system isn't cleaned regularly you may end up with a biohazard de luxe. Don't ask me how I know, but the sanitation of 25 machines sized workshop took a while Den tors 22 okt. 2020 kl 20:25 skrev Nicklas SB Karlsson : > In some oils there are PAHs polyaromatic hydrocarbons and these have > been linked to some forms of cancer > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon Then > reading about Creosot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote I found > there is difference in chemical properties between coal-tar and wood-tar > Creosot and I also expect difference in chemical properties between > mineral oil and vegetable oil. > > Expect food oil to be relatively harmless also then used as a cutting > fluid, no rust and does not freeze during winter. Maybe bacterial growth > might be a problem but in such case I could kill them by heating > regularly. Do not freeze during winter is an important future for me as > is now. > > > Den 2020-10-21 kl. 21:44, skrev marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk: > > On 2020-10-21 20:10, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: > >> I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any > >> experience? > >> > > I understand the problem has been that soluble cutting oil tends to > > drench the operator at waist level (on older machines which do not > > have total enclosures). That led to a noted connection between cancer > > and soluble oil. > > I don't know of any link between neat cutting oil and medical > > conditions, but it is an oil, so the usual hazards apply. > > > > I have serious reservations about the current fashion for atomised > > mist spray coolant, which I believe to be a real danger to the lungs > > and possibly the eyes, nose and mouth. I have not seen any medical > > studies on this, but atomised fluids of all sorts are generally a bad > > idea. > > Just my opinion. > > > > Marcus > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
In some oils there are PAHs polyaromatic hydrocarbons and these have been linked to some forms of cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon Then reading about Creosot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote I found there is difference in chemical properties between coal-tar and wood-tar Creosot and I also expect difference in chemical properties between mineral oil and vegetable oil. Expect food oil to be relatively harmless also then used as a cutting fluid, no rust and does not freeze during winter. Maybe bacterial growth might be a problem but in such case I could kill them by heating regularly. Do not freeze during winter is an important future for me as is now. Den 2020-10-21 kl. 21:44, skrev marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk: On 2020-10-21 20:10, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any experience? I understand the problem has been that soluble cutting oil tends to drench the operator at waist level (on older machines which do not have total enclosures). That led to a noted connection between cancer and soluble oil. I don't know of any link between neat cutting oil and medical conditions, but it is an oil, so the usual hazards apply. I have serious reservations about the current fashion for atomised mist spray coolant, which I believe to be a real danger to the lungs and possibly the eyes, nose and mouth. I have not seen any medical studies on this, but atomised fluids of all sorts are generally a bad idea. Just my opinion. Marcus ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Cutting fluid
The smell of many coolants make me feel nauseous, and that stuff surely gets to the liver if on your skin Have a look at this stuff. I haven't used it myself but intend to. https://www.mmsonline.com/products/clear-metalworking-fluid-engineered-for-easier-part-cleaning On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 21:36, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: > I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any > experience? > > First thing I think about is ordinary cooking oil. It might not have the > best performance but as it is more or less just a little bit of hobby > machining unless to bad this is not very important, it is more important > there is no health problems. > > > Nicklas Karlsson > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
Walter Cutter Grinders used a clear mineral oil in a complete enclosure and mist collector. I never saw any problems and we changed it every year. No rust and no smell. On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 2:56:14 PM CDT, Ralph Stirling wrote: Cutting fluids come in many, many different flavors, as well as methods of application. Misting fluids is more problematic than fluid cooling, for example. Plain vegetable oil would likely be problematic as a cutting fluid, as it could get very gummy. I use a vegetable based cutting fluid from Oemeta, and even with that high performance commercial product I have problems with stuff getting sticky when it sits a while. They have a compatible waylube, which is where I have the problem with stickiness after a few weeks of disuse of the CNC lathe. -- Ralph From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [nk@nksb.online] Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 12:10 PM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email system. I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any experience? First thing I think about is ordinary cooking oil. It might not have the best performance but as it is more or less just a little bit of hobby machining unless to bad this is not very important, it is more important there is no health problems. Nicklas Karlsson ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C9dff7e5f95fa42ce004108d875f84488%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637389056449117911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=HK27nRdJ0vRN%2BnOyGfZd9XPbXGBKGQtYj54i7X8mE4s%3D=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
Cutting fluids come in many, many different flavors, as well as methods of application. Misting fluids is more problematic than fluid cooling, for example. Plain vegetable oil would likely be problematic as a cutting fluid, as it could get very gummy. I use a vegetable based cutting fluid from Oemeta, and even with that high performance commercial product I have problems with stuff getting sticky when it sits a while. They have a compatible waylube, which is where I have the problem with stickiness after a few weeks of disuse of the CNC lathe. -- Ralph From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [nk@nksb.online] Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 12:10 PM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email system. I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any experience? First thing I think about is ordinary cooking oil. It might not have the best performance but as it is more or less just a little bit of hobby machining unless to bad this is not very important, it is more important there is no health problems. Nicklas Karlsson ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C9dff7e5f95fa42ce004108d875f84488%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637389056449117911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=HK27nRdJ0vRN%2BnOyGfZd9XPbXGBKGQtYj54i7X8mE4s%3Dreserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cutting fluid
On 2020-10-21 20:10, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any experience? I understand the problem has been that soluble cutting oil tends to drench the operator at waist level (on older machines which do not have total enclosures). That led to a noted connection between cancer and soluble oil. I don't know of any link between neat cutting oil and medical conditions, but it is an oil, so the usual hazards apply. I have serious reservations about the current fashion for atomised mist spray coolant, which I believe to be a real danger to the lungs and possibly the eyes, nose and mouth. I have not seen any medical studies on this, but atomised fluids of all sorts are generally a bad idea. Just my opinion. Marcus ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Cutting fluid
I learned cutting fluid could be unhealthy. Anyone here have any experience? First thing I think about is ordinary cooking oil. It might not have the best performance but as it is more or less just a little bit of hobby machining unless to bad this is not very important, it is more important there is no health problems. Nicklas Karlsson ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
