Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[dave engvall]

In converting my Mazak I just tied a toggle switch to the control line 
for the valve that ran the hydraulics for tool release. One hand on the 
switch and one on the tool. Rather crude but it worked until the 
belleville stack broke.


Dave

On 11/14/21 4:02 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:

On a BT30 spindle;
A button the front of the sindle, drawbar is depressed only as long as you
hold the button in.



On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 at 08:03, John Dammeyer  wrote:


Quick question.

On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?

Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
vertically or horizontally?

If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the
one on the right load or unload?

Thanks
John


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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Todd Zuercher]

All of our big commercial CNC routers have a single tool release button.  Our 
Anderson (Omnitech), Komo, and Northwood, all have a single momentary switch 
that only opens the drawbar while you hold the button down.  Our SCM Routech, 
is a little different and the momentary switch is used as an input to the PLC, 
and behaves like a toggle, one press releases, second press grabs the tool.  
And all of them have multiple interlocks through their PLCs to prevent using 
the manual tool releases under normal circumstances, involving multiple button 
presses/mode changes, and even m-code inputs to enable the manual tool release. 
 It would be difficult or even impossible to manually change a tool during 
normal execution of a program on most of these machines.  

The location of the tool release button is varied.  Some machines have the 
button on the spindle.  Some have it on the tool carousel.  Some are on the 
pendant.

I think there might be a procedure for doing a manual change during program 
execution on our Komos but have never used it.  The manual procedure would be 
intended for using large aggregate tooling that might be too large to ride in 
the tool changer carousel.  The others I am not sure have any way.  Our SCM has 
an M-code to enable a "special" tool change, but I think that may just disable 
some of the tool pockets.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Herd  
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:21 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

I believe (but could be wrong) that Haas machines use a single momentary switch 
on the head to release the drawbar.

Matthew Herd

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:18 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my 
> Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
>
> Quick question.
>
> On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by 
> actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
>
> Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged 
> vertically or horizontally?
>
> If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does 
> the one on the right load or unload?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 14 November 2021 23:27:16 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I did some testing with the butterfly to tighten/loosen and then used
> a torque wrench to loosen or tighten.  The regulator from tank air
> will be good enough to set the draw bar torque by the looks of it.
>
> Things are looking good at the moment.
> John

I only have one machine with a drawbar, the G0704, and I'm using a 1/4" 
socket adapter with an 8 point 10mm socket in an 18 volt battery rachet 
porter-cable screwdriver. But I only let it rattle for about 1/2 second 
as that plenty tight enough for an R8.  Its also tight enough I have to 
use a hammer on the regular end wrench to loosen it.
 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: November-14-21 7:04 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> >
> > There are two common types of draw bars.
> >
> > The ones that use a pullstud.  Eg haas.  Just have a tool eject
> > button.  To trigger a air cylinder and unload the tool.   Otherwise
> > it is held tight by the bevele washers
> >
> > The ones that tighten a thread in toolholder with a air rachet or
> > similar have two buttons.
> >
> > One to unscrew(loosen tool)
> >
> > One to tighten tighten tool
> >
> > And they have preset clutch to adjust the tightness.
> >
> > On Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 02:23 Matthew Herd,  wrote:
> > > I believe (but could be wrong) that Haas machines use a single
> > > momentary switch on the head to release the drawbar.
> > >
> > > Matthew Herd
> > >
> > > > On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:18 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ?I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch
> > > > on my Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: John Dammeyer 
> > > > Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
> > > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > >  Subject: [Emc-users] Power
> > > > Draw Bar
> > > >
> > > > Quick question.
> > > >
> > > > On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the
> > > > tool by actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
> > > >
> > > > Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they
> > > > arranged vertically or horizontally?
> > > >
> > > > If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If
> > > > horizontally does
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > one on the right load or unload?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
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>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[John Dammeyer]

I did some testing with the butterfly to tighten/loosen and then used a torque 
wrench to loosen or tighten.  The regulator from tank air will be good enough 
to set the draw bar torque by the looks of it.

Things are looking good at the moment.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: November-14-21 7:04 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> 
> There are two common types of draw bars.
> 
> The ones that use a pullstud.  Eg haas.  Just have a tool eject button.  To
> trigger a air cylinder and unload the tool.   Otherwise it is held tight by
> the bevele washers
> 
> The ones that tighten a thread in toolholder with a air rachet or similar
> have two buttons.
> 
> One to unscrew(loosen tool)
> 
> One to tighten tighten tool
> 
> And they have preset clutch to adjust the tightness.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 02:23 Matthew Herd,  wrote:
> 
> > I believe (but could be wrong) that Haas machines use a single momentary
> > switch on the head to release the drawbar.
> >
> > Matthew Herd
> >
> > > On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:18 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > ?I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my
> > > Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer 
> > > Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> > >
> > > Quick question.
> > >
> > > On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
> > > actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
> > >
> > > Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
> > > vertically or horizontally?
> > >
> > > If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does
> > the
> > > one on the right load or unload?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[andrew beck]

There are two common types of draw bars.

The ones that use a pullstud.  Eg haas.  Just have a tool eject button.  To
trigger a air cylinder and unload the tool.   Otherwise it is held tight by
the bevele washers

The ones that tighten a thread in toolholder with a air rachet or similar
have two buttons.

One to unscrew(loosen tool)

One to tighten tighten tool

And they have preset clutch to adjust the tightness.



On Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 02:23 Matthew Herd,  wrote:

> I believe (but could be wrong) that Haas machines use a single momentary
> switch on the head to release the drawbar.
>
> Matthew Herd
>
> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:18 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my
> > Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> >
> > Quick question.
> >
> > On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
> > actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
> >
> > Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
> > vertically or horizontally?
> >
> > If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does
> the
> > one on the right load or unload?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Matthew Herd]

I believe (but could be wrong) that Haas machines use a single momentary switch 
on the head to release the drawbar. 

Matthew Herd

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 8:18 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my
> Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer  
> Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
> actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
> 
> Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
> vertically or horizontally? 
> 
> If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the
> one on the right load or unload?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[ken.strauss]

I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my
Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

Quick question.
 
On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
 
Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
vertically or horizontally? 
 
If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the
one on the right load or unload?
 
Thanks
John
 

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[Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Roland Jollivet]

On a BT30 spindle;
A button the front of the sindle, drawbar is depressed only as long as you
hold the button in.



On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 at 08:03, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Quick question.
>
> On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
> actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
>
> Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
> vertically or horizontally?
>
> If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the
> one on the right load or unload?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Peter Hodgson]

On my Prototrak mill there are two 16mm dia. momentary switches vertically 
mounted.

Load - white - above
Unload - black - below 



> On 14 Nov 2021, at 06:00, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by 
> actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
> 
> Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged 
> vertically or horizontally? 
> 
> If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the 
> one on the right load or unload?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[John Dammeyer]

Quick question.
 
On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by 
actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
 
Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged vertically 
or horizontally? 
 
If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the one 
on the right load or unload?
 
Thanks
John
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 July 2021 12:37:52 Les Newell wrote:

> My Hurco uses an air impact to run the draw bar. It has a small
> pneumatic ram to push the driver down to engage the drawbar.
>
> Les
>
> On 19/07/2021 22:07, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Here's the basic rendering.  Now I can redesign it to better fit the
> > mill.   It's possible I could add a flip down latch that only allows
> > one turn in the CCW direction.  Before lowering onto the bolt head
> > spin it CW against the other side of the stop.  Then push down the
> > socket over the draw bar bolt head.  Spin CCW until it hits the stop
> > which should be close to one turn and should release the TT Holder. 
> >  Or set a latch so it does one rev and then the stop flips down to
> > stop it on the second turn.\
> >
> > All those years of repairing IBM Selectric Typewriters might just
> > come in handy for coming up with a novel solution.
> >
> > Or just use a stepper motor and 100:1 planetary gear module.
> > John

My tool changeer on the G0704 (r8 spindle) is still 2 armed, with the 
right one running a Porter-Cable impact screwdriver/drill with an 8 
point socket on the drawbar bolt. If If were to let it rattle long 
enough, it would stretch or strip the drawbar. I can't begin to put that 
much pull on it with the supplied hand wrench. And my TTS tools, 
including a 5/8 chuck with a 1" bit in it, don't slip.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Les Newell]

My Hurco uses an air impact to run the draw bar. It has a small 
pneumatic ram to push the driver down to engage the drawbar.


Les

On 19/07/2021 22:07, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here's the basic rendering.  Now I can redesign it to better fit the mill.   
It's possible I could add a flip down latch that only allows one turn in the 
CCW direction.  Before lowering onto the bolt head spin it CW against the other 
side of the stop.  Then push down the socket over the draw bar bolt head.  Spin 
CCW until it hits the stop which should be close to one turn and should release 
the TT Holder.   Or set a latch so it does one rev and then the stop flips down 
to stop it on the second turn.\
  
All those years of repairing IBM Selectric Typewriters might just come in handy for coming up with a novel solution.
  
Or just use a stepper motor and 100:1 planetary gear module.

John
  
  





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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[John Dammeyer]

At the moment the idea of recreating the spindle to be able to do BT30 just 
isn't in the cards.  I can't even turn decent pulleys that have zero wobble.  
I'm not the best machinist I think.  And then there's the cost of BT30 tooling.

In reality, AFAIK, the TT Tooling with 3/4" shaft into the R8 collet doesn't 
have the strength to hold a 3/4" chuck.  It was really meant for smaller mills 
and I'm probably pushing it with the 2HP spindle.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-19-21 12:29 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar
> 
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 01:41, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > The disk spring setup would be great if the only thing I used was TT 
> > Tooling.  But if I remove the R8 3/4" flat top collet and insert
> my 3/4" R8 drill chuck the springs seem like they'd be an issue.
> 
> You might be able to convert the drill chuck to TTS shank, but
> otherwise, yes, that becomes more difficult.
> 
> My BT30 spindle uses pull studs, so the pneumatic drawbar can be
> lifted out and a conventional drawbar can be used. This isn't as easy
> with a TTS as releasing the tool does not release the drawbar and the
> keyway stops you from just screwing the collet out from the bottom.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 01:41, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> The disk spring setup would be great if the only thing I used was TT Tooling. 
>  But if I remove the R8 3/4" flat top collet and insert my 3/4" R8 drill 
> chuck the springs seem like they'd be an issue.

You might be able to convert the drill chuck to TTS shank, but
otherwise, yes, that becomes more difficult.

My BT30 spindle uses pull studs, so the pneumatic drawbar can be
lifted out and a conventional drawbar can be used. This isn't as easy
with a TTS as releasing the tool does not release the drawbar and the
keyway stops you from just screwing the collet out from the bottom.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

It would be simpler to use belleville washers and an air cylinder to apply 
pressure to release the tooling. 
https://hackaday.com/2020/01/11/stacks-of-spring-washers-power-the-drawbar-on-this-cnc-mill-conversion/


On Sunday, July 18, 2021, 5:39:23 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 A long long time ago I read an article in Home Shop Machinist written by Rick 
Sparber on what he called a WUT. 
https://rick.sparber.org/Articles/drawbar/Drawbar.htm
Although I couldn't make mine exactly as his I was able to at least create a 
thick hex washer so that I could tighten the draw bar while holding the WUT 
with a wrench.  Testing with a torque wrench can actually reach the 20 inch 
pounds as the maximum suggested for the Tormach Tooling.  In reality I don't 
come close to that amount of torque and so far I haven't run into issues with 
anything slipping.  
 
I also paid for the instructions from homeshopaccessories for the power drawbar 
that uses a small butterfly air impact wrench.
http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/cheap_drawbar.htm
 
In playing around with the power tapping project I also tried using the 
butterfly wrench to tighten and loosen the TT Tools.  First, the wrench has to 
work really hard to reach 20 inch lbs.  And it has to work really hard to 
loosen the drawbar if the torque wrench was used to bring it to 20 inch lbs.  
The more normal value is around 12 inch pounds which seems more than adequate.
 
However, and there's the issue.  Like any air impact wrench it chugs away until 
it breaks the nut loose and then spins up fast.  Fast enough to completely 
uncouple the draw bar from the R8 holder and the whole works drops out.  If it 
does that then there's no real point to the TT tools other than repeatability;  
which is an advantage..
 
My question is about controlling the reverse on the butterfly wrench to limit 
it to two turns.  I'm sure I could connect an encoder on the wrench shaft to 
count a number of edges per turn and after two turns shut off the air valve.  
But how fast does an air system react?  By the time you reach two turns is it 
already spinning so fast that it releases the R8 before the air pressure is 
gone?
 
Is there some sort of mechanical approach to allow it to turn two turns and 
then prevent further turns?  This can't be fixed in stone because there will be 
times where more than two turns are required for removing the R8 collet.
 
So I think LCNC with the MESA interface can count an encoder.  It can probably 
even switch off a valve within a few milli-seconds of N encoder counts.    So 
the HAL file would read in input for UnloadTool. Clear the encoder counter and 
assert an output to open the air valve.  On encoder_count = X close the air 
valve.
 
Actually I'd probably just program a separate micro-processor to do this and 
produce a done signal on the request input.  I either case though is there a 
way to limit the distance the butterfly turns?
 
John  
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,
> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
The disk spring setup would be great if the only thing I used was TT Tooling.  
But if I remove the R8 3/4" flat top collet and insert my 3/4" R8 drill chuck 
the springs seem like they'd be an issue. The air cylinder to push on the 
spring washers now has to be moved out of the way. How tight is tight?
  
I had thought of using a stepper motor and 100:1 planetary drive which are 
available for about $60.  Pretty easy to engage air cylinder to push socket 
onto draw bar.  Then turn 200 turns to unwind draw bar two turns.  To tighten 
turn two rotations.   The torque multiplier is more than enough to create the 
12 to 18 inch lbs required.
 
If I want to remove the collet then run it 12 rotations.   I think even a 50:1 
with 150 oz-in motor will work.
 
And I have an extra stepgen available on the MESA.  
 
But I already have the butterfly wrench, air cylinder, electric valves, 
regulators etc.  All but the mechanical hardware.  For that I'm busy changing 
the 2D drawings into 3D Parametric so I can use LCNC to make them.
 

 
> 
> > On 19 Jul 2021, at 00:39, John Dammeyer <  
> > jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
> >
> > case though is there a way to limit the distance the butterfly turns?
> 
> Have you considered a disc spring setup instead?  The one on my mill has 
> worked well.
> 
> Otherwise: maybe you could have a plain section above the thread for the nut 
> to run in to, and then a cap to stop it all
> disassembling.
> You might want a spring to re-engage the nut with the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[Andy Pugh]

> On 19 Jul 2021, at 00:39, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> case though is there a way to limit the distance the butterfly turns?

Have you considered a disc spring setup instead?  The one on my mill has worked 
well. 

Otherwise: maybe you could have a plain section above the thread for the nut to 
run in to, and then a cap to stop it all disassembling. 
You might want a spring to re-engage the nut with the thread. 





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[Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[John Dammeyer]

A long long time ago I read an article in Home Shop Machinist written by Rick 
Sparber on what he called a WUT. 
https://rick.sparber.org/Articles/drawbar/Drawbar.htm
Although I couldn't make mine exactly as his I was able to at least create a 
thick hex washer so that I could tighten the draw bar while holding the WUT 
with a wrench.  Testing with a torque wrench can actually reach the 20 inch 
pounds as the maximum suggested for the Tormach Tooling.  In reality I don't 
come close to that amount of torque and so far I haven't run into issues with 
anything slipping.  
 
I also paid for the instructions from homeshopaccessories for the power drawbar 
that uses a small butterfly air impact wrench.
http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/cheap_drawbar.htm
 
In playing around with the power tapping project I also tried using the 
butterfly wrench to tighten and loosen the TT Tools.  First, the wrench has to 
work really hard to reach 20 inch lbs.  And it has to work really hard to 
loosen the drawbar if the torque wrench was used to bring it to 20 inch lbs.   
The more normal value is around 12 inch pounds which seems more than adequate.
 
However, and there's the issue.  Like any air impact wrench it chugs away until 
it breaks the nut loose and then spins up fast.  Fast enough to completely 
uncouple the draw bar from the R8 holder and the whole works drops out.   If it 
does that then there's no real point to the TT tools other than repeatability;  
which is an advantage..
 
My question is about controlling the reverse on the butterfly wrench to limit 
it to two turns.  I'm sure I could connect an encoder on the wrench shaft to 
count a number of edges per turn and after two turns shut off the air valve.  
But how fast does an air system react?  By the time you reach two turns is it 
already spinning so fast that it releases the R8 before the air pressure is 
gone?
 
Is there some sort of mechanical approach to allow it to turn two turns and 
then prevent further turns?  This can't be fixed in stone because there will be 
times where more than two turns are required for removing the R8 collet.
 
So I think LCNC with the MESA interface can count an encoder.  It can probably 
even switch off a valve within a few milli-seconds of N encoder counts.So 
the HAL file would read in input for UnloadTool. Clear the encoder counter and 
assert an output to open the air valve.  On encoder_count = X close the air 
valve.
 
Actually I'd probably just program a separate micro-processor to do this and 
produce a done signal on the request input.  I either case though is there a 
way to limit the distance the butterfly turns?
 
John
 
 
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com 
 

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