Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 23:47, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Dy-Kem Prussian Blue dye is the best,


I think you will find that Stuarts "Micrometer" is the best.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engineers-B079NCQ2X4-Paste-Marking-38gms/dp/B079NCQ2X4

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Jon Elson]

On 01/06/2021 06:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:


Never heard of Canode till now.  Msg marked, thanks Jon


Every shop supplier has the Dy-Kem, but few stock Canode.  
So, it is a bit harder to get.
But, well worth it to keep the entire shop and all your 
clothes from turning blue.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I really wished I'd had the money to buy and transport, and a place to install 
and use this 8,000 pound iron surface plate that Gorton made and used in their 
factory.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/mother-all-gorton-surface-plates-282691/
Unfortunately the guy who bought it suffered a heart attack and a shop fire not 
long after. Whereabouts of the plate still unknown.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 10:20:16 PM MST, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wednesday 06 January 2021 23:46:36 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> Hi Gene
> you can buy Prussian Blue oil paint tube from an art store or internet
> you can get a pretty good surface plate from a cutout of a kitchen
> sink granite top

I have a surface plate but its triple the weight of this mill. 4" thick, 
12" x 18" Feels like around 80 lbs to me, but I could just be getting 
old. :(

> you can measure the flatness with this old trick
> takes 2 123 blocks a mag indicator stand and an indicator
> mount indicator to stand and clamp stand onto large surface of 123
> place both 123's on surface to check. You can 0 indicator onto the
> plain 123. as you move the pair over the surface you are measuring the
> avg 123 area height to the other 123 area height. You make a map of
> the results on paper.

I'll have to locate a granite peddler for the light weight version, and 
get the 123 blocks.  Good idea though.  Thanks TomP.
 
> This will show you how flat the surface is.
> this is an independent measure ( the surface may not be parallel to
> the x or y rails
> but it is important to be able to what element is contributing what
> part of error to the wkpc.
>
> stay safe, god bless america
>
After today, I'm not so sure he is blessing us. We'll see that happens in 
the next 14 days.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 23:46:36 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> Hi Gene
> you can buy Prussian Blue oil paint tube from an art store or internet
> you can get a pretty good surface plate from a cutout of a kitchen
> sink granite top

I have a surface plate but its triple the weight of this mill. 4" thick, 
12" x 18" Feels like around 80 lbs to me, but I could just be getting 
old. :(

> you can measure the flatness with this old trick
> takes 2 123 blocks a mag indicator stand and an indicator
> mount indicator to stand and clamp stand onto large surface of 123
> place both 123's on surface to check. You can 0 indicator onto the
> plain 123. as you move the pair over the surface you are measuring the
> avg 123 area height to the other 123 area height. You make a map of
> the results on paper.

I'll have to locate a granite peddler for the light weight version, and 
get the 123 blocks.  Good idea though.  Thanks TomP.
 
> This will show you how flat the surface is.
> this is an independent measure ( the surface may not be parallel to
> the x or y rails
> but it is important to be able to what element is contributing what
> part of error to the wkpc.
>
> stay safe, god bless america
>
After today, I'm not so sure he is blessing us. We'll see that happens in 
the next 14 days.

> tomp
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 7:08 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Wednesday 06 January 2021 18:45:11 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > On 01/06/2021 04:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 06 January 2021 06:08:23 andy pugh wrote:
> > > >> How far out of true is it?
> > > >
> > > > A good mm in some of the places I have checked. But now I need
> > > > to stay at or below .1mm over a foot of travel for this box mod.
> > > > I could reclamp it, and survey it with my throw away
> > > > renasys(sp?), but am trying to get enough data I don't have to
> > > > do it over for each piece I make.
> > >
> > > Well, there is always hand scraping.  I've never done it on
> > > aluminum, but I'd guess it might
> > > be very similar to cast iron.  But, of course, if putting
> > > clamps anywhere distorts it more, then
> > > it is kind of a losing battle.
> > >
> > > All you need is a known-flat reference surface like a
> > > granite surface plate, some blue dye
> > > and a scraping tool.  You can make scrapers out of large
> > > carbide cutting inserts.  While
> > > Dy-Kem Prussian Blue dye is the best, it is very messy, so I
> > > recommend Canode spotting dye.
> > > That is water-soluble.
> >
> > Never heard of Canode till now.  Msg marked, thanks Jon
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[TJoseph Powderly]

Hi Gene
you can buy Prussian Blue oil paint tube from an art store or internet
you can get a pretty good surface plate from a cutout of a kitchen
sink granite top
you can measure the flatness with this old trick
takes 2 123 blocks a mag indicator stand and an indicator
mount indicator to stand and clamp stand onto large surface of 123
place both 123's on surface to check. You can 0 indicator onto the plain 123.
as you move the pair over the surface you are measuring the avg 123
area height to the other 123 area height. You make a map of the
results on paper.
This will show you how flat the surface is.
this is an independent measure ( the surface may not be parallel to
the x or y rails
but it is important to be able to what element is contributing what
part of error to the wkpc.

stay safe, god bless america

tomp

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 7:08 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 06 January 2021 18:45:11 Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 01/06/2021 04:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 06 January 2021 06:08:23 andy pugh wrote:
> > >> How far out of true is it?
> > >
> > > A good mm in some of the places I have checked. But now I need to
> > > stay at or below .1mm over a foot of travel for this box mod. I
> > > could reclamp it, and survey it with my throw away renasys(sp?), but
> > > am trying to get enough data I don't have to do it over for each
> > > piece I make.
> >
> > Well, there is always hand scraping.  I've never done it on
> > aluminum, but I'd guess it might
> > be very similar to cast iron.  But, of course, if putting
> > clamps anywhere distorts it more, then
> > it is kind of a losing battle.
> >
> > All you need is a known-flat reference surface like a
> > granite surface plate, some blue dye
> > and a scraping tool.  You can make scrapers out of large
> > carbide cutting inserts.  While
> > Dy-Kem Prussian Blue dye is the best, it is very messy, so I
> > recommend Canode spotting dye.
> > That is water-soluble.
>
> Never heard of Canode till now.  Msg marked, thanks Jon
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 18:45:11 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 01/06/2021 04:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 06 January 2021 06:08:23 andy pugh wrote:
> >> How far out of true is it?
> >
> > A good mm in some of the places I have checked. But now I need to
> > stay at or below .1mm over a foot of travel for this box mod. I
> > could reclamp it, and survey it with my throw away renasys(sp?), but
> > am trying to get enough data I don't have to do it over for each
> > piece I make.
>
> Well, there is always hand scraping.  I've never done it on
> aluminum, but I'd guess it might
> be very similar to cast iron.  But, of course, if putting
> clamps anywhere distorts it more, then
> it is kind of a losing battle.
>
> All you need is a known-flat reference surface like a
> granite surface plate, some blue dye
> and a scraping tool.  You can make scrapers out of large
> carbide cutting inserts.  While
> Dy-Kem Prussian Blue dye is the best, it is very messy, so I
> recommend Canode spotting dye.
> That is water-soluble.

Never heard of Canode till now.  Msg marked, thanks Jon 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Jon Elson]

On 01/06/2021 04:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 06:08:23 andy pugh wrote:


How far out of true is it?

A good mm in some of the places I have checked. But now I need to stay at
or below .1mm over a foot of travel for this box mod. I could reclamp
it, and survey it with my throw away renasys(sp?), but am trying to get
enough data I don't have to do it over for each piece I make.

Well, there is always hand scraping.  I've never done it on 
aluminum, but I'd guess it might
be very similar to cast iron.  But, of course, if putting 
clamps anywhere distorts it more, then

it is kind of a losing battle.

All you need is a known-flat reference surface like a 
granite surface plate, some blue dye
and a scraping tool.  You can make scrapers out of large 
carbide cutting inserts.  While
Dy-Kem Prussian Blue dye is the best, it is very messy, so I 
recommend Canode spotting dye.

That is water-soluble.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 11:36:36 Lester Caine wrote:

> On 06/01/2021 15:47, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > That probably would not leave enough meat for the clamp bolt heads
> > to pull against in places.  These are off a 16th" or more from
> > previous checks.  Very poor extrusions IMNSHO.
>
> I have a router table with an A3 working area, using an extruded bed.
> The table itself is fairly flat, but twists if not clamped down to the
> bench. I simply shimmed the rails to ensure that the bed is flat using
> a sprit level, and I'm not seeing any bowing in the bed itself. The
> gantry rails also needed a little tweaking to ensure the other motions
> are parallel to the bed. Result, the cutter is within a few thou of
> level over the whole bed. I could skim the surface and there is 0.05"
> step on the slots, but jobs I am working on don't need that finer
> accuracy, and small jobs are certainly a lot flatter.
>
> Had I found the bed was distorted then obviously a new extrusion may
> be an option, but there is plenty of room to fit a couple of bars to
> the back of the bed to pull things square. The ends of the bed are
> already bolted directly to a large cross rail and it's these that get
> shimmed to level things and remove the twist.

I would be very surprised if there weren't some of that too. But it would 
take better measuring tools than I have to fine tune leg heights. I did 
measure and try to get matching leg heights at the time but that was 2 
years ago and memory fades.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 08:45:36 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2021 6:08 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't
> flat on my 6040.
>
> >But: Will it help? If the bed is not flat, and you clamp a workpiece
> > to it, does the workpiece conform exactly to the shape of the bed?
> > Or does the bed >distort to match the workpiece?
> >
> >How far out of true is it?
>
> Also need to consider is it actually the bed that is out of true, or
> are the ways worn, loose, not straight or in some other way not
> causing true linear motion?

Virtually new machine Todd, so rod wear is minimal yet.  Straight is 
anyones guess. And I've no way of measuring it from a true flat 
reference.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 06:08:23 andy pugh wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 03:51, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > But this would be a true 3d need as it needs correction in both X
> > and Y travel. lincurve isn't made to do that.  So how might that be
> > done?
>
> There was some work done on this several years ago (look at probekins)
> but it wasn't very satisfactory.
>
> The same idea might work well now that we have external offsets.

I'll check that out. I have some experience with that as I'm correcting 
bed wear on the Sheldon by diddling x offset according to Z position, so 
its within a thou anyplace in the Z travel. To quote an ex Bro-in-law, 
its "good enough for the girls I go with". ;-)

> But: Will it help? If the bed is not flat, and you clamp a workpiece
> to it, does the workpiece conform exactly to the shape of the bed? Or
> does the bed distort to match the workpiece?
>
Depending on what I clamp down, somewhere between I expect.

> How far out of true is it?

A good mm in some of the places I have checked. But now I need to stay at 
or below .1mm over a foot of travel for this box mod. I could reclamp 
it, and survey it with my throw away renasys(sp?), but am trying to get 
enough data I don't have to do it over for each piece I make.

Thanks Andy.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Lester Caine]

On 06/01/2021 15:47, Gene Heskett wrote:

That probably would not leave enough meat for the clamp bolt heads to
pull against in places.  These are off a 16th" or more from previous
checks.  Very poor extrusions IMNSHO.


I have a router table with an A3 working area, using an extruded bed. 
The table itself is fairly flat, but twists if not clamped down to the 
bench. I simply shimmed the rails to ensure that the bed is flat using a 
sprit level, and I'm not seeing any bowing in the bed itself. The gantry 
rails also needed a little tweaking to ensure the other motions are 
parallel to the bed. Result, the cutter is within a few thou of level 
over the whole bed. I could skim the surface and there is 0.05" step on 
the slots, but jobs I am working on don't need that finer accuracy, and 
small jobs are certainly a lot flatter.


Had I found the bed was distorted then obviously a new extrusion may be 
an option, but there is plenty of room to fit a couple of bars to the 
back of the bed to pull things square. The ends of the bed are already 
bolted directly to a large cross rail and it's these that get shimmed to 
level things and remove the twist.


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 05:28:10 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On 1/6/21 4:29 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > how does one maintain access to the bed slots for hold down clamps?
>
> That's the problem with the slotted aluminum table top.  Very handy...
> until you realize it's not flat and/or level.
>
> For a small slotted aluminum bed that was flat, I'd probably try to
> shim it level.
>
> If it's not quite flat and the top thickness allowed it, I might
> machine the top of the T slot bed flat and level, just like a spoil
> board.

That probably would not leave enough meat for the clamp bolt heads to 
pull against in places.  These are off a 16th" or more from previous 
checks.  Very poor extrusions IMNSHO.

> If you had convenient access to the edges of the T slots, you could
> always use countersunk screws to install a UHMW (cutting board) as a
> spoil board and machine it level.  Fly cutters are problematic with a
> low torque and possibly out of tram spindle that would cause cupping
> so I use a 1" or 1.5" diameter router bit on my 2' X 4' CNC router. 
> You could use an even smaller diameter cutter on your smaller CNC
> router. Then drill a series of spaced holes coinciding with the slots
> and push in T slot nuts from the side to the location you want when
> mounting your workpiece.  It's not that fiddly.  Push the machine
> screws down to stop the nut, lift the screw, and push the nut another
> 3/8" until the screw drops into the tapped hole in the nut.  You lose
> the continuous 1D adjustment range of the entire slot, but there is
> already a course spacing between the slots on the other axis.
>
> Or you could mount the UHMW bed upside down and machine clearance
> holes and hexagonal nut pockets an inch apart along the slots, press
> in an array of nuts, flip the UHMW over, screw it down and machine the
> top level.
>
> If you really want to impress the chicks,

What chicks? At my age, all I see are hungry sharks.

> mount an aluminum plate with 
> countersunk screws, machine the top flat and level, drill or mill an
> array of holes and use a thread mill to tap them.

That has crossed my mind after seeing a guy put in a steel plate on his 
6040 on you-tube. But the cost of that steel plate is an ouch and it 
will rust. So I'll see about 1/2" alu.  And I already have some hardened 
6mm black oxide ready thread I can make holdown studs from.

> Be sure to use 
> anti-seize in those holes and use black oxide screws instead of
> stainless because aluminum is galling and aluminum and stainless is
> bad juju.

I am quite fam with that, we use copper bolts for transmission line 
flanges since the only way to remove a weathered SS bolt is break it and 
anybody on the ground had damned well be wearing a good hard hat and 
heavy clothing. A broken 3/8" bolt from 400 feet up is a lethal weapon.

> Don't use a cordless impact driver to fixture your work. 

Aww, gee, why not? :)

> Probably twenty eleven other ways to get a flat level bed on your CNC
> router... and we haven't even discussed vacuum hold down tables.   :-)
>
Chuckle, mentioning UHMW, I have a cutting board in the kitchen made of 
that.  Its about 1/4" high in the middle after 10 years.  Still a usable 
cutting board, but flat and stable it isn't. I think the dishwasher heat 
is the main cause.  

So if I do something like that, I'll probably remove these extrusions and 
cut it out of a 2x4 sheet of 1/2" alu.  And I have a thread mill but 
its .750" in diameter.  I'd need one able to do 6mm holes, pretty small. 
Pricey too, $85 for 2 in solid carbide single tooth from Hong Kong.  So 
the first step has been taken. Locating the alu sheet is next. But I can 
have that in 4 or 5 days, the thread mills in around 5 weeks. Spit...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Todd Zuercher]

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2021 6:08 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

>But: Will it help? If the bed is not flat, and you clamp a workpiece to it, 
>does the workpiece conform exactly to the shape of the bed? Or does the bed 
>>distort to match the workpiece?
>
>How far out of true is it?

Also need to consider is it actually the bed that is out of true, or are the 
ways worn, loose, not straight or in some other way not causing true linear 
motion?

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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 03:51, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> But this would be a true 3d need as it needs correction in both X and Y
> travel. lincurve isn't made to do that.  So how might that be done?

There was some work done on this several years ago (look at probekins)
but it wasn't very satisfactory.

The same idea might work well now that we have external offsets.

But: Will it help? If the bed is not flat, and you clamp a workpiece
to it, does the workpiece conform exactly to the shape of the bed? Or
does the bed distort to match the workpiece?

How far out of true is it?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Bruce Layne]

On 1/6/21 4:29 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> how does one maintain access to the bed slots for hold down clamps?

That's the problem with the slotted aluminum table top.  Very handy...
until you realize it's not flat and/or level.

For a small slotted aluminum bed that was flat, I'd probably try to shim
it level.

If it's not quite flat and the top thickness allowed it, I might machine
the top of the T slot bed flat and level, just like a spoil board.

If you had convenient access to the edges of the T slots, you could
always use countersunk screws to install a UHMW (cutting board) as a
spoil board and machine it level.  Fly cutters are problematic with a
low torque and possibly out of tram spindle that would cause cupping so
I use a 1" or 1.5" diameter router bit on my 2' X 4' CNC router.  You
could use an even smaller diameter cutter on your smaller CNC router. 
Then drill a series of spaced holes coinciding with the slots and push
in T slot nuts from the side to the location you want when mounting your
workpiece.  It's not that fiddly.  Push the machine screws down to stop
the nut, lift the screw, and push the nut another 3/8" until the screw
drops into the tapped hole in the nut.  You lose the continuous 1D
adjustment range of the entire slot, but there is already a course
spacing between the slots on the other axis.

Or you could mount the UHMW bed upside down and machine clearance holes
and hexagonal nut pockets an inch apart along the slots, press in an
array of nuts, flip the UHMW over, screw it down and machine the top level.

If you really want to impress the chicks, mount an aluminum plate with
countersunk screws, machine the top flat and level, drill or mill an
array of holes and use a thread mill to tap them.  Be sure to use
anti-seize in those holes and use black oxide screws instead of
stainless because aluminum is galling and aluminum and stainless is bad
juju.  Don't use a cordless impact driver to fixture your work.

Probably twenty eleven other ways to get a flat level bed on your CNC
router... and we haven't even discussed vacuum hold down tables.   :-)





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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 January 2021 02:32:05 marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
wrote:

> On 2021-01-06 04:25, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > Why don't you just install a spoil board and machine it flat like
> > most people do with a CNC router?
>
> When I converted my mill, I followed some published instructions for
> an identical mill, and added ballscrews. That involved machining a
> shallow 'trench' on the underside of the bed. I know machining a
> casting is always risky, but I trusted the instructions and figured
> the bed must be sufficiently well seasoned or stress relieved, so I
> went ahead. Of course the bed bowed along the Y axis, quite
> noticeably. I then took it to the only machine shop in this area and
> spoke to the foreman. By pure luck, they had a grinder with a large
> bed, and the foreman was sufficiently interested in my attempts to
> convert my mill that he used the job as an example for the
> apprentices. I got a beautifully flat bed, nicely finished, and they
> got a box of prizes for their annual golf competition.
> A couple of months later, the big grinder went in the skip, along with
> all the other manual machines. The factory concentrated on CNC
> machining of toolheads for the oil drilling industry. With the
> downturn in recent times, the factory has gone, so no more machine
> shops in this area.
>
> In the absence of someone to do a surface grinding job, I would do one
> of two things.
> First, as Bruce suggests, I would mount a plate on the bed and flycut
> it flat. If you drill an array of holes, tap some and ream others for
> pins, you will have a handy way of securing work, holding your vice,
> jig, fixtures etc.  It may be difficult to reach the whole of the
> table, so a good alternative is to mount a couple of blocks parallel
> to Y and flycut the tops of those, then bolt a plate to the tops. Even
> with my flat bed, I use this arrangement as it locates the work a
> little higher. The top plate has bolt holes and pin holes and I use
> those to hold a selection of fixtures for various jobs. I seldom
> remove the sub-plate and revert to the bed. You may be able to buy
> T-slotted table tops from other mills (SEIG table tops are available
> in the UK in small and large sizes at reasonable prices). Mount one of
> those on the blocks.
> A second approach, developed because of a particular job that keeps
> reappearing, is to mount a long SEIG table top on L-shaped legs using
> a tilting arrangement which pivots the table near the top front, along
> the X axis. That gives me a table large enough to hold large-ish
> plates so that I can machine one edge at an angle. It has been useful
> for other jobs too. Adjustment is from -5 to a positive angle which
> depends on the height of the legs.
>
> Marcus
>
Easy enough to do in wood, but the mister then swells and warps it.  
Cherry is ideal for that, until it gets wet.  And wet cherry doesn't 
often dry back to dimension.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 05 January 2021 23:25:53 Bruce Layne wrote:

> Why don't you just install a spoil board and machine it flat like most
> people do with a CNC router?
>
Been considered, but how does one maintain access to the bed slots for 
hold down clamps?

Thanks Bruce.

> On 1/5/21 10:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I find on a simple jobs tonight, that the bed isn't flat, and that I
> > need to scan it for lincurve data.
> >
> > But this would be a true 3d need as it needs correction in both X
> > and Y travel. lincurve isn't made to do that.  So how might that be
> > done?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-01-06 04:25, Bruce Layne wrote:

Why don't you just install a spoil board and machine it flat like most
people do with a CNC router?

When I converted my mill, I followed some published instructions for an 
identical mill, and added ballscrews. That involved machining a shallow 
'trench' on the underside of the bed. I know machining a casting is 
always risky, but I trusted the instructions and figured the bed must be 
sufficiently well seasoned or stress relieved, so I went ahead.
Of course the bed bowed along the Y axis, quite noticeably. I then took 
it to the only machine shop in this area and spoke to the foreman. By 
pure luck, they had a grinder with a large bed, and the foreman was 
sufficiently interested in my attempts to convert my mill that he used 
the job as an example for the apprentices. I got a beautifully flat bed, 
nicely finished, and they got a box of prizes for their annual golf 
competition.
A couple of months later, the big grinder went in the skip, along with 
all the other manual machines. The factory concentrated on CNC machining 
of toolheads for the oil drilling industry. With the downturn in recent 
times, the factory has gone, so no more machine shops in this area.


In the absence of someone to do a surface grinding job, I would do one 
of two things.
First, as Bruce suggests, I would mount a plate on the bed and flycut it 
flat. If you drill an array of holes, tap some and ream others for pins, 
you will have a handy way of securing work, holding your vice, jig, 
fixtures etc.  It may be difficult to reach the whole of the table, so a 
good alternative is to mount a couple of blocks parallel to Y and flycut 
the tops of those, then bolt a plate to the tops. Even with my flat bed, 
I use this arrangement as it locates the work a little higher. The top 
plate has bolt holes and pin holes and I use those to hold a selection 
of fixtures for various jobs. I seldom remove the sub-plate and revert 
to the bed. You may be able to buy T-slotted table tops from other mills 
(SEIG table tops are available in the UK in small and large sizes at 
reasonable prices). Mount one of those on the blocks.
A second approach, developed because of a particular job that keeps 
reappearing, is to mount a long SEIG table top on L-shaped legs using a 
tilting arrangement which pivots the table near the top front, along the 
X axis. That gives me a table large enough to hold large-ish plates so 
that I can machine one edge at an angle. It has been useful for other 
jobs too. Adjustment is from -5 to a positive angle which depends on the 
height of the legs.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Bruce Layne]

Why don't you just install a spoil board and machine it flat like most
people do with a CNC router?



On 1/5/21 10:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I find on a simple jobs tonight, that the bed isn't flat, and that I need 
> to scan it for lincurve data.
>
> But this would be a true 3d need as it needs correction in both X and Y 
> travel. lincurve isn't made to do that.  So how might that be done?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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[Emc-users] Bed isn't flat on my 6040.

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I find on a simple jobs tonight, that the bed isn't flat, and that I need 
to scan it for lincurve data.

But this would be a true 3d need as it needs correction in both X and Y 
travel. lincurve isn't made to do that.  So how might that be done?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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