Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Yi-Shin Li wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Alex Joni wrote: > >> > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB >> > interface: >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 >> > >> > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. >> > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Yishin Li >> > -- >> > Arais Robot Technology >> >> Looks very nice, >> can you describe the setup a bit? Mostly the USB link, what firmware did >> you >> use in the 7i43, how did you connect to it, etc >> >> > The basic idea for USB link was described at emc2-developers list: > http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-develop...@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02737.html Sorry, that URL was lost. -ysli -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > > > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > > > > Regarding the USB specification the cable length could be 5m. Have you > tried a longer cable or what is the reason for this limit? Or have you > tried an USB extender to increase it? > > We've tried typical 5m USB cables. It works well under normal conditions. However, it gets unstable if we route it through NOISE source, ex: 750W AC servo drivers. In order to pass the EMI NOISE testing, we need a special USB cable which is immue to those NOISE. And, that cable on my hand happens to be 1.8m :-) Regards, Yishin -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 16 September 2010 05:49, Yi-Shin Li wrote: > > > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > > interface: > > Did you write your own driver to do this? > As far as I know the current EMC2 HAL drivers do not support a > USB-connected 7i43. > > Actually, it was modified from stepgen.c . The source code could be obtained from github: http://github.com/yishinli/emc2/blob/master/src/hal/components/wou_stepgen.c It's kind of outdated, though. -Yishin -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Alex Joni wrote: > > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > > interface: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 > > > > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > > > > Regards, > > > > Yishin Li > > -- > > Arais Robot Technology > > Looks very nice, > can you describe the setup a bit? Mostly the USB link, what firmware did > you > use in the 7i43, how did you connect to it, etc > > The basic idea for USB link was described at this emc2-developers list.<%20http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-develop...@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02737.html> *A USB board with enough buffer for step/dir pulse commands should be able to work well under EMC2 simulation mode without RTAI.* Our RTL design for 7i43 has not been released yet. It's still under verification. Regards, Yishin -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On 16 September 2010 05:49, Yi-Shin Li wrote: > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > interface: Did you write your own driver to do this? As far as I know the current EMC2 HAL drivers do not support a USB-connected 7i43. -- atp -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
> Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > interface: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 > Very nice machines... > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > > Regarding the USB specification the cable length could be 5m. Have you tried a longer cable or what is the reason for this limit? Or have you tried an USB extender to increase it? Best regards, Kai -- Schaeffer AG Dipl.-Phys. Kai Schaeffer Vorstand Nahmitzer Damm 32 Tel. +49-30-8058695-25 12277 Berlin FAX: +49-30-8058695-33 http://www.schaeffer-ag.de HRB 93611 B, Amtsgericht Berlin Charlottenburg Vorstand: Jörg Schaeffer, Kai Schaeffer Aufsichtsrat: Dieter Kersten (Vorsitzender) -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
> Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > interface: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 > > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > > Regards, > > Yishin Li > -- > Arais Robot Technology Looks very nice, can you describe the setup a bit? Mostly the USB link, what firmware did you use in the 7i43, how did you connect to it, etc Regards, Alex -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/16 Yi-Shin Li : > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Kai Schaeffer > wrote: > > > > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > > interface: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 > > > > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > > > > Might be a little off-topic, but how did You create the G-code with > NURBS? Especially the one, where robot is drawing hieroglyphs? > Handwritten or some CAM application? > Those hieroglyphs (more precisely, traditional Chinese words) were edited by Rhinoceros 4.0, exported to IGES file, and converted to NURBS G-code with a script. -Yishin -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
2010/9/16 Yi-Shin Li : > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > >> >> Just a thought I had: wouldn't it be a good idea to bring the H-bridge >> close to the motors? Then you need a different link between the I/O card >> and H-bridge. The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some >> problems with the realtime, right? But what about the 5i21 I/O with a >> 8i20 card and a serial RS-422 link between them? I know, it's not >> support at the moment, but is it possible in general? Or is there >> something I miss? >> > > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB > interface: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 > > Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. > The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). > Might be a little off-topic, but how did You create the G-code with NURBS? Especially the one, where robot is drawing hieroglyphs? Handwritten or some CAM application? Viesturs -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > > Just a thought I had: wouldn't it be a good idea to bring the H-bridge > close to the motors? Then you need a different link between the I/O card > and H-bridge. The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some > problems with the realtime, right? But what about the 5i21 I/O with a > 8i20 card and a serial RS-422 link between them? I know, it's not > support at the moment, but is it possible in general? Or is there > something I miss? > Attached 2 video links for SCARA Robot controlled by EMC2 through USB interface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LS9GxZN6s4 Both are with MESA-7i43 (USB/FPGA) and Servo Drivers. The usb cable length could be 1.8m (verified with EMI NOISE testing). Regards, Yishin Li -- Arais Robot Technology -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010, Kai Schaeffer wrote:
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:20:21 +0200
From: Kai Schaeffer
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
Hi everyone,
We are planing a spray system on a X-Y-table and want to control it with
EMC. We want to use servo motors. When I see it right a common setup is
to use for instance a Mesa 5i20 board and a 7i30 H-bridge. My question
is now: what cable lengths are possible. I guess the H-bridge should be
close to the I/O card i.e. PC. So I have a long cable between the
H-bridge and the motors. What lengths are possible there?
A more common set of cards is a 5I20 and a 7I33TA analog servo interface, to
be used with analog servo drives. The 7I30 is a very small HBridge, only
suitable for small tabletop mills if that
Just a thought I had: wouldn't it be a good idea to bring the H-bridge
close to the motors? Then you need a different link between the I/O card
and H-bridge. The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some
problems with the realtime, right? But what about the 5i21 I/O with a
8i20 card and a serial RS-422 link between them? I know, it's not
support at the moment, but is it possible in general? Or is there
something I miss?
There should not be much trouble with long encoder or motor leads as long as
you use differential encoders and shielded wire. The motor wires
should be shielded as well (with their own shield)
The 8I20 is not supported by EMC yet but theres is a possibility of support
soon. The 5I21 could be used but probably a simpler solution as far as wiring
goes is to use a 5I20 or 5I23 (5I23 preferred) and a 7I44 RS-422 daughtercard,
as this daughtercard uses the same cables (standard Ethernet Cat5) and pinout
as the 8I20 for the serial link.
Regards,
Kai
--
Schaeffer AG
Dipl.-Phys. Kai Schaeffer Vorstand
Nahmitzer Damm 32 Tel. +49-30-8058695-25
12277 Berlin FAX: +49-30-8058695-33
http://www.schaeffer-ag.de
HRB 93611 B, Amtsgericht Berlin Charlottenburg
Vorstand: Jörg Schaeffer, Kai Schaeffer
Aufsichtsrat: Dieter Kersten (Vorsitzender)
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Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
I'm not sure about the Mesa 7I30 board, but running servo power cables and the encoder cables long distances are generally not a problem if you use differential encoders. I installed some 1 KW servos with 60 foot power and encoder cables this past summer. I just quoted some Siemens servo drives and motors that have 120 foot cables. How far do you want to go? Dave On 9/14/2010 8:20 AM, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > Hi everyone, > > We are planing a spray system on a X-Y-table and want to control it with > EMC. We want to use servo motors. When I see it right a common setup is > to use for instance a Mesa 5i20 board and a 7i30 H-bridge. My question > is now: what cable lengths are possible. I guess the H-bridge should be > close to the I/O card i.e. PC. So I have a long cable between the > H-bridge and the motors. What lengths are possible there? > > Just a thought I had: wouldn't it be a good idea to bring the H-bridge > close to the motors? Then you need a different link between the I/O card > and H-bridge. The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some > problems with the realtime, right? But what about the 5i21 I/O with a > 8i20 card and a serial RS-422 link between them? I know, it's not > support at the moment, but is it possible in general? Or is there > something I miss? > > Regards, > Kai > > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
>> Question on the system mechanics. How accurate do you need to be with a >> Spray system? Why spend the money for servos in this application? I would >> think the accuracy levels needed for spraying would be well served (cost >> and >> operationally) by a stepper system? >> >> BG >> >> > I agree on the argument leading the question above. Servo's are fun but it's > overkill for your application. Well, if you get them for free why not, if > you pay - use steppers and spend the budget on the sprayer instead. > You are right, servos seems to be an overkill here. But there are two reason for us to use them: 1. It's an experimenting system where we want to try different speeds - also higher speeds like 2m/min. Yes theoretically possible with stepper motors, but... 2. We also want to get experience for a bigger project we are planing. There we want to build a complete milling machine with a higher dynamic and accuracy. So servos are definitely needed there. > But to return to the original question, I run servo's with 6 m cables with > no problem. But you need good cables and good encoders. If you do have > quality cables (and encoders) the cables can be much longer than that. My > friend has a servo based system big enough to mill a complete boat hull, I > would estimate the cable length to more than 15 m. > Thank you for your hints. -Kai -- Schaeffer AG Dipl.-Phys. Kai Schaeffer Vorstand Nahmitzer Damm 32 Tel. +49-30-8058695-25 12277 Berlin FAX: +49-30-8058695-33 http://www.schaeffer-ag.de HRB 93611 B, Amtsgericht Berlin Charlottenburg Vorstand: Jörg Schaeffer, Kai Schaeffer Aufsichtsrat: Dieter Kersten (Vorsitzender) -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
2010/9/14 BRIAN GLACKIN > Question on the system mechanics. How accurate do you need to be with a > Spray system? Why spend the money for servos in this application? I would > think the accuracy levels needed for spraying would be well served (cost > and > operationally) by a stepper system? > > BG > I agree on the argument leading the question above. Servo's are fun but it's overkill for your application. Well, if you get them for free why not, if you pay - use steppers and spend the budget on the sprayer instead. But to return to the original question, I run servo's with 6 m cables with no problem. But you need good cables and good encoders. If you do have quality cables (and encoders) the cables can be much longer than that. My friend has a servo based system big enough to mill a complete boat hull, I would estimate the cable length to more than 15 m. -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On 14 September 2010 14:40, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote: > Question on the system mechanics. How accurate do you need to be with a > Spray system? Why spend the money for servos in this application? I would > think the accuracy levels needed for spraying would be well served (cost and > operationally) by a stepper system? I can imagine that rather high speed and acceleration might be required? -- atp -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
Question on the system mechanics. How accurate do you need to be with a Spray system? Why spend the money for servos in this application? I would think the accuracy levels needed for spraying would be well served (cost and operationally) by a stepper system? BG On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 14 September 2010 13:20, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > > > The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some > > problems with the realtime, right? > > The USB port is simply not supported by the HAL driver, so can't be > used with EMC2, even if it was a good idea. > > -- > atp > > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
On 14 September 2010 13:20, Kai Schaeffer wrote: > The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some > problems with the realtime, right? The USB port is simply not supported by the HAL driver, so can't be used with EMC2, even if it was a good idea. -- atp -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Beginner question about cable lengths
Hi everyone, We are planing a spray system on a X-Y-table and want to control it with EMC. We want to use servo motors. When I see it right a common setup is to use for instance a Mesa 5i20 board and a 7i30 H-bridge. My question is now: what cable lengths are possible. I guess the H-bridge should be close to the I/O card i.e. PC. So I have a long cable between the H-bridge and the motors. What lengths are possible there? Just a thought I had: wouldn't it be a good idea to bring the H-bridge close to the motors? Then you need a different link between the I/O card and H-bridge. The 7i43 supports the USB port, but there I see some problems with the realtime, right? But what about the 5i21 I/O with a 8i20 card and a serial RS-422 link between them? I know, it's not support at the moment, but is it possible in general? Or is there something I miss? Regards, Kai -- Schaeffer AG Dipl.-Phys. Kai Schaeffer Vorstand Nahmitzer Damm 32 Tel. +49-30-8058695-25 12277 Berlin FAX: +49-30-8058695-33 http://www.schaeffer-ag.de HRB 93611 B, Amtsgericht Berlin Charlottenburg Vorstand: Jörg Schaeffer, Kai Schaeffer Aufsichtsrat: Dieter Kersten (Vorsitzender) -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
