Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:01 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> Fusion 360 also runs natively on a Mac.
>


I think the comment about needing Windows was to address those runing Linux
on their PCs. You can get a free copy of Winows and run it either on
virtual or real hardware but no one is giving away free Macs.

There are other CAD systems that will run on Linux but none of them have
integrated CAM that is close to Fusion's level of sophitication.


> Thaddeus Waldner
>
> 
> From: Dave Matthews 
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:50 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception
>
> Lars Christensen has a bunch of Fusion 360 videos on YouTube. He
> works for Autodesk and has an absolute beginner series. It is how I
> learned basic Fusion 360.
>
> Dave
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:47 PM Dave Cole  wrote:
> >
> > Its hard to beat this price for 3D Cad/Cam which is free for hobbyist
> > and startups making less than 100K per year.
> > https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/fusion-360-for-hobbyists
> >
> > It requires Window, but its free!
> >
> > I know of a shop that is using Inventor now and they are moving a lot of
> > their work to Fusion 360.
> > The cost is a fraction of the Inventor price per seat. Something like
> > $800 per year for a commercial business.
> >
> > I used it a couple of years ago to do some lathe parts and it was really
> > easy. The parts were designed, and G code generated in a day, and this
> > was the first time we ever used it. Mill code is more difficult than
> > lathe code typically, but still, one day. There was a lathe post that
> > worked perfectly with LinuxCNC.
> >
> > I understand that they have improved it a lot in the last two years as
> well.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 12/20/2018 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:19 AM Les Newell 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.
> > > Who knows. No one EVER reads the g-code or counts the lines. I have
> some
> > > files with a few million lines.
> > >
> > > But here is another question: Can you hand code a DB9 cut out in less
> than
> > > 6 minutes? THAT is what matters.
> > >
> > > And can you hand code a compound curve, like a small part for a
> human-like
> > > prosthec hand?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Fusion 360 also runs natively on a Mac.

Thaddeus Waldner


From: Dave Matthews 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:50 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

Lars Christensen has a bunch of Fusion 360 videos on YouTube. He
works for Autodesk and has an absolute beginner series. It is how I
learned basic Fusion 360.

Dave

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:47 PM Dave Cole  wrote:
>
> Its hard to beat this price for 3D Cad/Cam which is free for hobbyist
> and startups making less than 100K per year.
> https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/fusion-360-for-hobbyists
>
> It requires Window, but its free!
>
> I know of a shop that is using Inventor now and they are moving a lot of
> their work to Fusion 360.
> The cost is a fraction of the Inventor price per seat. Something like
> $800 per year for a commercial business.
>
> I used it a couple of years ago to do some lathe parts and it was really
> easy. The parts were designed, and G code generated in a day, and this
> was the first time we ever used it. Mill code is more difficult than
> lathe code typically, but still, one day. There was a lathe post that
> worked perfectly with LinuxCNC.
>
> I understand that they have improved it a lot in the last two years as well.
>
> Dave
>
> On 12/20/2018 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:19 AM Les Newell 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.
> > Who knows. No one EVER reads the g-code or counts the lines. I have some
> > files with a few million lines.
> >
> > But here is another question: Can you hand code a DB9 cut out in less than
> > 6 minutes? THAT is what matters.
> >
> > And can you hand code a compound curve, like a small part for a human-like
> > prosthec hand?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Dave Matthews]

Lars Christensen has a bunch of Fusion 360 videos on YouTube.  He
works for Autodesk and has an absolute beginner series.  It is how I
learned basic Fusion 360.

Dave

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:47 PM Dave Cole  wrote:
>
> Its hard to beat this price for 3D Cad/Cam which is free for hobbyist
> and startups making less than 100K per year.
> https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/fusion-360-for-hobbyists
>
> It requires Window, but its free!
>
> I know of a shop that is using Inventor now and they are moving a lot of
> their work to Fusion 360.
> The cost is a fraction of the Inventor price per seat.  Something like
> $800 per year for a commercial business.
>
> I used it a couple of years ago to do some lathe parts and it was really
> easy.   The parts were designed, and G code generated in a day, and this
> was the first time we ever used it.   Mill code is more difficult than
> lathe code typically, but still, one day.  There was a lathe post that
> worked perfectly with LinuxCNC.
>
> I understand that they have improved it a lot in the last two years as well.
>
> Dave
>
> On 12/20/2018 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:19 AM Les Newell 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.
> >   Who knows.  No one EVER reads the g-code or counts the lines.  I have some
> > files with a few million lines.
> >
> > But here is another question:  Can you hand code a DB9 cut out in less than
> > 6 minutes?   THAT is what matters.
> >
> > And can you hand code a compound curve, like a small part for a human-like
> > prosthec hand?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Dave Cole]

Its hard to beat this price for 3D Cad/Cam which is free for hobbyist 
and startups making less than 100K per year.

https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/fusion-360-for-hobbyists

It requires Window, but its free!

I know of a shop that is using Inventor now and they are moving a lot of 
their work to Fusion 360.
The cost is a fraction of the Inventor price per seat.  Something like 
$800 per year for a commercial business.


I used it a couple of years ago to do some lathe parts and it was really 
easy.   The parts were designed, and G code generated in a day, and this 
was the first time we ever used it.   Mill code is more difficult than 
lathe code typically, but still, one day.  There was a lathe post that 
worked perfectly with LinuxCNC.


I understand that they have improved it a lot in the last two years as well.

Dave

On 12/20/2018 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:19 AM Les Newell 
wrote:


Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.

  Who knows.  No one EVER reads the g-code or counts the lines.  I have some
files with a few million lines.

But here is another question:  Can you hand code a DB9 cut out in less than
6 minutes?   THAT is what matters.

And can you hand code a compound curve, like a small part for a human-like
prosthec hand?







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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 20 December 2018 16:40:50 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 at 21:17, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Those measurements are already in this code, it would take maybe a
> > minute to change it to put db9's in the same place the db25's are
> > now.
>
> I think I might be tempted to make a punch-set for the flypress
> instead of machining the holes ;-)

For a production run of 2?  Chuckle... Good one Andy. :) 

Besides I don't have either the punch press, the room for it, or a heavy 
enough floor to support it on this yellow clay, as its not a solid but a 
supercooled liquid, like glass, without building another double garage 
below the house on this hill, so I'm running what I brung to this 
party. ;)

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 at 21:17, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Those measurements are already in this code, it would take maybe a minute
> to change it to put db9's in the same place the db25's are now.

I think I might be tempted to make a punch-set for the flypress
instead of machining the holes ;-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:19 AM Les Newell 
wrote:

> > Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.
>

 Who knows.  No one EVER reads the g-code or counts the lines.  I have some
files with a few million lines.

But here is another question:  Can you hand code a DB9 cut out in less than
6 minutes?   THAT is what matters.

And can you hand code a compound curve, like a small part for a human-like
prosthec hand?




>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 19 December 2018 15:02:57 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 19 December 2018 01:27:46 David Berndt wrote:
> > I could write a big email about this, and I will if you want to,
> > just let me know. But I'll jump in here and agree with Chris. You're
> > missing out not having a cad/cam package. You're not able to use
> > your tools, or your time to optimum effect, and you're not getting
> > the best end result that you could possibly get in most cases.
> > Modern CAM software outputs some awesome tool paths and is worth
> > having/using. Especially for a hobbyist imo.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
>
> I guess I'm a stubborn old cuss. Right now a simulated run looks
> great, and its about 280 active lines of code if the comments are
> skipped. You saw the screen snap I posted yesterday.  Can your cad/cam
> program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.
>
> One question remains: I'd like to drill holes for connectors with a
> 4mm dia tool. All are under .625" in dia. The cutter comp section
> doesn't mention the g42 enable blending moves in anything but the xy
> plane, so my question is:
>
> Can I go to the center of a hole with a 4mm tool a half inch above the
> work, enable the g42. and descend to the work on the z axis while the
> comp is being phased in? If I can do that, my backlplot  visualization
> would be considerable more accurate. Right now I'm doing cutter comp
> in the code, but that means the trace is tool_dia undersized visually.
> Those moves then could be incorporated into the SUB at the expense of
> 5 seconds of cutting air above the actual cutout, and only have to be
> written once. I don't see any reason why it couldn't work, and the
> radius of these holes isn't long enough to do the "blending" by a
> lng ways in the xy plane, and being able to do it with a z move
> would be a huge help. Seeing as how its freezing out, and nearly so in
> the shop where this machine is, I may as well find out. And I guess
> the answer is no, no amount of Z is enough. So the calls will have to
> pass the x & y's too and the SUB will need to do more math.
>
> Next question, will it work at all in G91? No, don't even try.
> So all my calls to drill holes are now absolute to the map in use.
> So the drill a hole call now looks like this:
>
> o130 SUB
> G40
> M3
> F15 (feed rate)
> (arrives here at center of hole, change this to take a passed argument
> for radius)
> G0 Z#<_ZUP> ( clear work)
> G0 X[#2 - 0.3] Y[#3 - 0.3] (move away for G42 blend in)
> G42 D15 X[#1 + #2] y#3
> G0 Z0
> G3 F#4 I-#1 J-0.000 Z#<_ZDN> P9
> f15
> G0 Z#<_ZUP> (back to clear)
> G40
> M5
>
> o130 ENDSUB
>
> The extra, cut air moves, to switch the G42 in and out add around 15
> or 16 minutes to the run time. This routine gets called 19 times.
>
> Its expecting 4 arguments, the last one being a feed rate so I can
> turn it down nor nearly straight drilling, the little holes that are
> almost a straight drill can push pretty hard, and there no support
> under the workpiece except where its clamped at the ends. Plus theres
> now 3 M0's in it, to move clamps at one end or the other, and 2 more
> M0's to allow clamps to be loosened and the work re-aligned in case I
> have to take it off the table. So yes, it will need baby sitting but I
> don't see anybody here except me to do it.
>
> The idea is, I put a workpiece a half inch bigger each way than I need
> on the table, and when its done, I take a complete back panel ready
> for parts off the table, needing only a bit of deburring if the tool
> gets dull. But it will be running up to its kneecaps in cutting oil
> soaked swarf. I moved the ac cord from the too flexible, middle of the
> panel to the extreme left end as that puts an S curve into that heavy
> cord, absorbing any panel flexibility by about 99.9 % before it gets
> to the terminals of a 12 volt 1.25 amp supply that runs it all.
>
> Theres 116+ inches of rapids, and 395+" of cutting, on a panel that's
> about 11.875 by 3.125. 320 LOC according to file->property's. I doubt
> if your cad/cam's gcode output can touch that. If it can't write gcode
> a heck of a lot more efficiently than pcb-2-gcode for eagle, it can't
> play in the same ballpark. I don't have an eagle sourced file thats
> not something in the 100k territory for a 1.6" x 2.2" board.
>
> [...]
>
> And I see its up to 53F, so I might hit the shop and try it if my
> right leg will get me up the hill. Except I haven't been out to get my
> lady her daily dose of crosswords from the local fishwrap yet. Some
> things are more important than others. See rule 2 about the boss is
> always right.  :)  So now I have a leg with a pulled muscle, I woke up
> around 7ish with a leg cramp, so I've not been getting around the
> house too well all day. Enough to take care of my lady, but not much
> else.
>
> I don't recommend this business of getting old, its nothing like AARP
> claims it is. I could cheerfully throttle the guy who claims these are
> the Golden Years. Or he 

Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Les Newell]

Can your cad/cam program do that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.


What difference does that make? CAM usually won't generate as compact 
code as hand coding with loops but even a million lines of code is only 
a few megabytes. LCNC is only really limited by the available storage so 
code size isn't an issue. When using CAM you have to use a different 
mindset and pretty much forget about the g-code. If there is a problem 
you change the CAM settings or the drawing, not the code.


Les



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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

I run Fusion 360 on a Mac, but THANKS for finding *Paperspace*.

I have an Amazon AWS account but that is best used for things like machine
learning experiments not interactive use.

18 cents is just stupid-cheap.   These high-end computers can burn up a
kilowatt of power if you push them to full load and I pay about 18 cents
per KWH.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 2:55 PM Martin Dobbins  wrote:

> I thought so too.
>
> Got me thinking again about what CAD you can run in Linux, so getting way
> off topic I came across this:
>
> https://joshschertz.com/2017/08/09/Run-Fusion-360-in-Ubuntu/
>
> Martin
>
>
> 
>
> Nicely done Andy.  It was a really good demo.
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Martin Dobbins]

I thought so too.

Got me thinking again about what CAD you can run in Linux, so getting way off 
topic I came across this:

https://joshschertz.com/2017/08/09/Run-Fusion-360-in-Ubuntu/

Martin




Nicely done Andy.  It was a really good demo.
John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

One of the problems with CAD system is that now you can design things that
are very complex and compound curves are trivial to make so you used them
and then you start worrying about of a sharp edge should be broken with a
1mm or a 1.5mm radius.Because your two inch long part is being
displayed on a 26" LCD monitor you see tiny little things and fix them.
 The problem is an over-designed part.  It is easy to do.   Generally, this
is not harmful except you waste time.

But the other side of this is that now you CAN design parts that are
impossibly hard to hand code.  Compound, organic looking curves are just as
easy as geometric shapes so "why not".   You parts don't have to have thar
"home shop" look to them.


On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 11:20 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> Computer CAD is something like that.  So it’s not picked up in 30 minutes
> and the worst thing to do is to immediately start on a project with the
> goal of learning CAD along the way.  At the beginning you don't know what
> you don't know so you don't know what to learn.  That's what tutorials or
> lessons are for.   They take you through the step by step process.   And
> often even after using the CAD for a while it pays to repeat the tutorial
> or a new introductory one because you don't always pick up the details the
> first time through.  And as we get older it's even harder to remember some
> of those pesky handy little details.
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 19 December 2018 13:33:21 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
wrote:

> An easier way to get the round corners in a D-Sub cutout is to use an
> endmill with the radius of the corners then make the trapezoid with
> sharp corners. Offset to the inside and let that and the tool size
> take care of the round corners.
>
Been doing it all along Greg, throw in a G42 and even the backplot looks 
good when I cut with a 4mm tool. I just got that sorted, so now the only 
invisible cuts are a couple registration half-depth-holes in case I have 
to take it off the table for something and remount it again, I can do 
that rather precisely.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 19 December 2018 01:27:46 David Berndt wrote:

> I could write a big email about this, and I will if you want to, just
> let me know. But I'll jump in here and agree with Chris. You're
> missing out not having a cad/cam package. You're not able to use your
> tools, or your time to optimum effect, and you're not getting the best
> end result that you could possibly get in most cases. Modern CAM
> software outputs some awesome tool paths and is worth having/using.
> Especially for a hobbyist imo.
>
>
> Regards,
> Dave

I guess I'm a stubborn old cuss. Right now a simulated run looks great, 
and its about 280 active lines of code if the comments are skipped. You 
saw the screen snap I posted yesterday.  Can your cad/cam program do 
that in 300 LOC? 100k LOC maybe.

One question remains: I'd like to drill holes for connectors with a 4mm 
dia tool. All are under .625" in dia. The cutter comp section doesn't 
mention the g42 enable blending moves in anything but the xy plane, so 
my question is:

Can I go to the center of a hole with a 4mm tool a half inch above the 
work, enable the g42. and descend to the work on the z axis while the 
comp is being phased in? If I can do that, my backlplot  visualization 
would be considerable more accurate. Right now I'm doing cutter comp in 
the code, but that means the trace is tool_dia undersized visually. 
Those moves then could be incorporated into the SUB at the expense of 5 
seconds of cutting air above the actual cutout, and only have to be 
written once. I don't see any reason why it couldn't work, and the 
radius of these holes isn't long enough to do the "blending" by a 
lng ways in the xy plane, and being able to do it with a z move 
would be a huge help. Seeing as how its freezing out, and nearly so in 
the shop where this machine is, I may as well find out. And I guess the 
answer is no, no amount of Z is enough. So the calls will have to pass 
the x & y's too and the SUB will need to do more math.

Next question, will it work at all in G91? No, don't even try.
So all my calls to drill holes are now absolute to the map in use.
So the drill a hole call now looks like this:

o130 SUB
G40
M3
F15 (feed rate)
(arrives here at center of hole, change this to take a passed argument 
for radius)
G0 Z#<_ZUP> ( clear work)
G0 X[#2 - 0.3] Y[#3 - 0.3] (move away for G42 blend in)
G42 D15 X[#1 + #2] y#3
G0 Z0
G3 F#4 I-#1 J-0.000 Z#<_ZDN> P9
f15
G0 Z#<_ZUP> (back to clear)
G40
M5

o130 ENDSUB

The extra, cut air moves, to switch the G42 in and out add around 15 or 
16 minutes to the run time. This routine gets called 19 times.

Its expecting 4 arguments, the last one being a feed rate so I can turn 
it down nor nearly straight drilling, the little holes that are almost a 
straight drill can push pretty hard, and there no support under the 
workpiece except where its clamped at the ends. Plus theres now 3 M0's 
in it, to move clamps at one end or the other, and 2 more M0's to allow 
clamps to be loosened and the work re-aligned in case I have to take it 
off the table. So yes, it will need baby sitting but I don't see anybody 
here except me to do it.

The idea is, I put a workpiece a half inch bigger each way than I need on 
the table, and when its done, I take a complete back panel ready for 
parts off the table, needing only a bit of deburring if the tool gets 
dull. But it will be running up to its kneecaps in cutting oil soaked 
swarf. I moved the ac cord from the too flexible, middle of the panel to 
the extreme left end as that puts an S curve into that heavy cord, 
absorbing any panel flexibility by about 99.9 % before it gets to the 
terminals of a 12 volt 1.25 amp supply that runs it all.

Theres 116+ inches of rapids, and 395+" of cutting, on a panel that's 
about 11.875 by 3.125. 320 LOC according to file->property's. I doubt if 
your cad/cam's gcode output can touch that. If it can't write gcode a 
heck of a lot more efficiently than pcb-2-gcode for eagle, it can't play 
in the same ballpark. I don't have an eagle sourced file thats not 
something in the 100k territory for a 1.6" x 2.2" board.

[...]

And I see its up to 53F, so I might hit the shop and try it if my right 
leg will get me up the hill. Except I haven't been out to get my lady 
her daily dose of crosswords from the local fishwrap yet. Some things 
are more important than others. See rule 2 about the boss is always 
right.  :)  So now I have a leg with a pulled muscle, I woke up around 
7ish with a leg cramp, so I've not been getting around the house too 
well all day. Enough to take care of my lady, but not much else.

I don't recommend this business of getting old, its nothing like AARP 
claims it is. I could cheerfully throttle the guy who claims these are 
the Golden Years. Or he could die a long lingering death from COPD like 
my wife is doing.

Thanks David, and have a Merry Christmas. I'm going to go get my lady her 
cross-words, before she uses them on me. :)

-- 
Cheers, 

Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

An easier way to get the round corners in a D-Sub cutout is to use an endmill 
with the radius of the corners then make the trapezoid with sharp corners. 
Offset to the inside and let that and the tool size take care of the round 
corners. 

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[Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Roland Jollivet]

Hi Andy

I watched that. It did look a long winded. Near the end you seem to be
repeatedly trying to dimension values that are already defined?

Also, to sketch a fillet, there should be two ways to do it. Either click
on the two lines, as you did, or simply click on the vertex. It's a lot
quicker. I presume
inventor supports that?



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 at 14:10, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 22:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after half
> > an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring and
> > defining points and writing gcode by hand.
>
> There is a lot to be said for drawing in a CAD package and then
> letting that calculate the start and end points of the lines and
> curves.
> (Or, in the case of a D-sub where the corner radius is likely to be
> the tool radius, just work out the required tool centre points.)
>
> I recorded a quick video of one way to sketch a D-sub (Autodesk
> Inventor, but would be the same in Fusion 360).
> Unfortunately the screen recorder doesn't show the on-screen pop-ups
> where one enters dimensions.
>
> https://youtu.be/0hA4EKDA8IY
>
> Pick construction geometry
> Draw a rectangle of a size that matches the D-sub dimensions (noting
> that it is a mid-point dimension on the angled sides)
> Draw a vertical line to use to anchor the sketch to the origin point
> Draw a horizontal line to locate the mounting holes.
> Switch to part geometry
> Roughly draw the outline specifically not in the right place to avoid
> auto-constraints causing trouble.
> Pin the horizontal lines with a colinear constraint
> Fillet the corners
> Dimension the edge angles
> Constrain the sloping edges to the width dimension centre points with
> a coincident constraint
> Then dimension the arc start, end and centre relative to the sketch origin.
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Jon Elson]

On 12/19/2018 06:07 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 22:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:


I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after half
an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring and
defining points and writing gcode by hand.


Well, my solution to this was to write small programs that 
created pretty optimal G-code for the

kind of operations I frequently need.  See :
http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html
for some of these.  Milling out holes and rectangular 
cutouts, and patterns of holes to drill.

Source code in C can be downloaded.
I use these programs for a wide variety of things, rather 
than CAD/CAM drawings.
You make a bunch of these small G-code sections for all the 
features on the part, then stitch them
together in a text editor.  I find it a lot faster than 
making a CAD drawing.


I have some more sophisticated versions here that I should 
update to the online page.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 22:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after half
> an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring and
> defining points and writing gcode by hand.

There is a lot to be said for drawing in a CAD package and then
letting that calculate the start and end points of the lines and
curves.
(Or, in the case of a D-sub where the corner radius is likely to be
the tool radius, just work out the required tool centre points.)

I recorded a quick video of one way to sketch a D-sub (Autodesk
Inventor, but would be the same in Fusion 360).
Unfortunately the screen recorder doesn't show the on-screen pop-ups
where one enters dimensions.

https://youtu.be/0hA4EKDA8IY

Pick construction geometry
Draw a rectangle of a size that matches the D-sub dimensions (noting
that it is a mid-point dimension on the angled sides)
Draw a vertical line to use to anchor the sketch to the origin point
Draw a horizontal line to locate the mounting holes.
Switch to part geometry
Roughly draw the outline specifically not in the right place to avoid
auto-constraints causing trouble.
Pin the horizontal lines with a colinear constraint
Fillet the corners
Dimension the edge angles
Constrain the sloping edges to the width dimension centre points with
a coincident constraint
Then dimension the arc start, end and centre relative to the sketch origin.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[David Berndt]

I could write a big email about this, and I will if you want to, just let  
me know. But I'll jump in here and agree with Chris. You're missing out  
not having a cad/cam package. You're not able to use your tools, or your  
time to optimum effect, and you're not getting the best end result that  
you could possibly get in most cases. Modern CAM software outputs some  
awesome tool paths and is worth having/using. Especially for a hobbyist  
imo.



Regards,
Dave


On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 01:01:39 -0500, Gene Heskett   
wrote:



On Tuesday 18 December 2018 20:51:43 Chris Albertson wrote:


On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 2:50 PM Gene Heskett 

wrote:

> On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:57:07 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Gene,
> >
> > You should learn to use CAM software.
>
> I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after
> half an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring
> and defining points and writing gcode by hand.

30 minutes is unrealistic.


No, whats unrealistic is that in 30 minutes I wasn't able to get 2 lines
to come together and be coupled so I could move the joint and begin to
approach what I wanted to with a realstic chance of actually getting the
trapezoid I was looking for. Doing that in gcode is extremely simple
because you can lay out the trapezoid in 3 or 4 minutes, its
automatically a straight line from point a to b, b to c, c to d, and d
to a, insert a small ramp down in the a to b run and stay there till
leaving the a again.. Check your measurements and do the tool_rad comp
in your code, but by using some weird air moves, it demanded 3x what the
docs say to even get it to load the code without yelling at me. G42,
once its working will automatically round the corners. Fiddling with the
lower run length gets me the trapezoid needed since I lay that stuff out
so one end is x.5750 and the other end is -.5750 so it automaticaly
symmetrical. I had lots more trouble getting lcnc to accept the g42 than
anything else. The time killer is fixing the typu's cause I can't see
near as well as I could with the cataracts, and instrumenting it to
verify I didn't forget to turn on the spindle while I'm doing motor
power off runs of nearly an hour each just to watch the backplot get
screwed because of a typu. If I run it all the way thru. Every such
mistake is of course another broken mill. It needs spindle rpm it
doesn't have when tops is 2500. For something like this 10k is more
usable and that would cut the execution time to 1/4 what it is now. 2500
just buries the tool in swarf.

I bought another z casting 3 or 4 years back, thinking of machining it to
clamp a 24k revs 1 horse motor in place of its gearbox and spindle, but
then I've not been able to find a truly concentric means of mounting a
1/8" collet and mill in its 1/4" spindle. I'll probably trip over
exactly what I need, someday, if I have sense enough left to recognize
it when I see it.

If I don't fall over first... So far I'm beating the odds, I've outlived
all the jerks I might have killed had it been legal at the time they
needed it. Most of that was 60 years ago. :) First wife's 1st husband. A
problem if there ever was one.


Takes about a week to learn to use
something like that.   But it's been 4 days now to make a simle "D"
cut out. If yousave a few days on every parts the payback is quick.
Plus you be able to make very complex, lofted parts with compound
curves.


Loft is not a problem even on that toy, z is the fastest axis by a factor
of at least 2, and I can with the drive mods I've made, use the full
height of an 18" post. And with doubled bronze z nuts, backlash might be
2 thou. Ditto for the ball screws for xy as I've restuffed those nuts
with oversized balls.


> > As an exercise I tried this,
> > took about 6 minutes.  Four steps Draw trapezoid, filet the
> > corners, select tool, generate g-code for tool path.  The
> > trapezoid is parametric so I can change the length by editing one
> > number.
>
> I'm about halfway there, and should be able to switch it to a db9/15
> size by throwing a software switch. But I'm also up to around 310
> LOC now. With the CAM program unrolling all the loops, this code
> would be 100K+ of build it from scratch to fix a typu in the cam
> drawings.






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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 20:51:43 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 2:50 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:57:07 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > Gene,
> > >
> > > You should learn to use CAM software.
> >
> > I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after
> > half an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring
> > and defining points and writing gcode by hand.
>
> 30 minutes is unrealistic.

No, whats unrealistic is that in 30 minutes I wasn't able to get 2 lines 
to come together and be coupled so I could move the joint and begin to 
approach what I wanted to with a realstic chance of actually getting the 
trapezoid I was looking for. Doing that in gcode is extremely simple 
because you can lay out the trapezoid in 3 or 4 minutes, its 
automatically a straight line from point a to b, b to c, c to d, and d 
to a, insert a small ramp down in the a to b run and stay there till 
leaving the a again.. Check your measurements and do the tool_rad comp 
in your code, but by using some weird air moves, it demanded 3x what the 
docs say to even get it to load the code without yelling at me. G42, 
once its working will automatically round the corners. Fiddling with the 
lower run length gets me the trapezoid needed since I lay that stuff out 
so one end is x.5750 and the other end is -.5750 so it automaticaly 
symmetrical. I had lots more trouble getting lcnc to accept the g42 than 
anything else. The time killer is fixing the typu's cause I can't see 
near as well as I could with the cataracts, and instrumenting it to 
verify I didn't forget to turn on the spindle while I'm doing motor 
power off runs of nearly an hour each just to watch the backplot get 
screwed because of a typu. If I run it all the way thru. Every such 
mistake is of course another broken mill. It needs spindle rpm it 
doesn't have when tops is 2500. For something like this 10k is more 
usable and that would cut the execution time to 1/4 what it is now. 2500 
just buries the tool in swarf.

I bought another z casting 3 or 4 years back, thinking of machining it to 
clamp a 24k revs 1 horse motor in place of its gearbox and spindle, but 
then I've not been able to find a truly concentric means of mounting a 
1/8" collet and mill in its 1/4" spindle. I'll probably trip over 
exactly what I need, someday, if I have sense enough left to recognize 
it when I see it.

If I don't fall over first... So far I'm beating the odds, I've outlived 
all the jerks I might have killed had it been legal at the time they 
needed it. Most of that was 60 years ago. :) First wife's 1st husband. A 
problem if there ever was one.

> Takes about a week to learn to use 
> something like that.   But it's been 4 days now to make a simle "D"
> cut out. If yousave a few days on every parts the payback is quick. 
> Plus you be able to make very complex, lofted parts with compound
> curves.

Loft is not a problem even on that toy, z is the fastest axis by a factor 
of at least 2, and I can with the drive mods I've made, use the full 
height of an 18" post. And with doubled bronze z nuts, backlash might be 
2 thou. Ditto for the ball screws for xy as I've restuffed those nuts 
with oversized balls.
>
> > > As an exercise I tried this,
> > > took about 6 minutes.  Four steps Draw trapezoid, filet the
> > > corners, select tool, generate g-code for tool path.  The
> > > trapezoid is parametric so I can change the length by editing one
> > > number.
> >
> > I'm about halfway there, and should be able to switch it to a db9/15
> > size by throwing a software switch. But I'm also up to around 310
> > LOC now. With the CAM program unrolling all the loops, this code
> > would be 100K+ of build it from scratch to fix a typu in the cam
> > drawings.



-- 
Cheers, Chris, and its the season, so I hope you have a Merry Christmas, 
Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 2:50 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:57:07 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > Gene,
> >
> > You should learn to use CAM software.
>
> I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after half
> an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring and
> defining points and writing gcode by hand.
>

30 minutes is unrealistic.  Takes about a week to learn to use something
like that.   But it's been 4 days now to make a simle "D" cut out. If
yousave a few days on every parts the payback is quick.  Plus you be able
to make very complex, lofted parts with compound cuves.

>
> > As an exercise I tried this,
> > took about 6 minutes.  Four steps Draw trapezoid, filet the corners,
> > select tool, generate g-code for tool path.  The trapezoid is
> > parametric so I can change the length by editing one number.
>
> I'm about halfway there, and should be able to switch it to a db9/15 size
> by throwing a software switch. But I'm also up to around 310 LOC now.
> With the CAM program unrolling all the loops, this code would be 100K+
> of build it from scratch to fix a typu in the cam drawings.
>
> I thought ncam might have some tools I could use, but nothing in its
> menu's shows any interest in a problem like this. and it was playing
> with my latency, making it noticeably worse, so its now commented out of
> the .ini file on that machine.  Lots less growling at me in the shell I
> ran lcnc in. :) If it wasn't a sw stepper it might not notice it so bad.
> Thats one of the reasons I'll make 2 of these interface boxes.
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:57:07 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Gene,
>
> You should learn to use CAM software.

I've made several passes at learning one pkg or another, but after half 
an hour without making any real progress, I'm back to measuring and 
defining points and writing gcode by hand.

> As an exercise I tried this, 
> took about 6 minutes.  Four steps Draw trapezoid, filet the corners,
> select tool, generate g-code for tool path.  The trapezoid is
> parametric so I can change the length by editing one number.

I'm about halfway there, and should be able to switch it to a db9/15 size 
by throwing a software switch. But I'm also up to around 310 LOC now. 
With the CAM program unrolling all the loops, this code would be 100K+ 
of build it from scratch to fix a typu in the cam drawings. 

I thought ncam might have some tools I could use, but nothing in its 
menu's shows any interest in a problem like this. and it was playing 
with my latency, making it noticeably worse, so its now commented out of 
the .ini file on that machine.  Lots less growling at me in the shell I 
ran lcnc in. :) If it wasn't a sw stepper it might not notice it so bad. 
Thats one of the reasons I'll make 2 of these interface boxes.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,

You should learn to use CAM software.   As an exercise I tried this, took
about 6 minutes.  Four steps Draw trapezoid, filet the corners, select
tool, generate g-code for tool path.  The trapezoid is parametric so I can
change the length by editing one number.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:58 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I have the code for this panel done, carving what I think is the correct
> size of dsub cutouts, and 10 holes to hold GS16-5 connectors, and one
> hole for a line cord packing gland.
>
> And copy #2 of it will need to have those 10 holes resized to fit a
> GS12-5 connector, I made a mistake buying the 2nd 10 from a different
> vendor because 10 was all the first one had, and bought smaller
> versions, which will NOT be solderable until I get a good glasses script
> to let me see better.
>
> But this panel, out of harder stock twice as thick as the boxes OEM
> panel, doesn't yet have a pair of mounting holes in each end,
> countersunk for a 2 or 2.5mm flat head screw. And I don't have any
> countersinks that small.
>
> So what I've got in mind is to dup it in g-code, or maybe just switch to
> a pan head and just drill the holes.
>
> Is there a way to use a g3 with a descending to zero diameter, while at
> the same time sinking the tool to emulate a countersink? To a final
> depth of around 50 thou? That would not leave a mirror finish
> countersink, but since it would also be hidden under the screws head, it
> would be "good enough for the girls I go with".
>
> Short of a 20 line loop with descending depth and diameter with a depth
> decrement of a couple thou? This thing already has a 40 minute execution
> time, so another 5 minutes a hole doesn't sound too unreasonable given
> the max speed and ipm of this toy mill. Its still sw stepping at only 28
> volts of motor power=watching paint dry speeds, when the 2500 rev
> spindle is figured in.
>
> Any other ideas out there?
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:01:23 Les Newell wrote:

> Regrind a drill bit with the appropriate angle - instant countersink.
>
> You could do it in code but you'll spend a lot more time coding than
> regrinding a drill.
>
> Les

Unforch Les, that would be a hand job as I've lost my touch at getting 
the correct heel height by eyeball (and ATM they are way out of 
calibration from cataract surgery) and Drill Doctors don't go that 
steep. If I can find a narrower clamp so I could drill on both sides of 
it to prevent the flex from allowing it to dig thru by grabbing the 
panel. I'll investigate it in scraps of this material. Someday I'll 
build me a sharpener out of the A table, which would make it easy to set 
the angles. A table, a steady rest for this piece of crap table I have, 
and a dremel spinning a diamond disk could probably be a better 
sharpener than a Drill Doctor, and spend a week sharpening the whole box 
of drills. I must have 5+ kilo's of semi-dull ones now. :)

Thanks & Merry Christmas, Les.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Les Newell]

Regrind a drill bit with the appropriate angle - instant countersink.

You could do it in code but you'll spend a lot more time coding than 
regrinding a drill.


Les

On 18/12/2018 16:56, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I have the code for this panel done, carving what I think is the correct
size of dsub cutouts, and 10 holes to hold GS16-5 connectors, and one
hole for a line cord packing gland.

And copy #2 of it will need to have those 10 holes resized to fit a
GS12-5 connector, I made a mistake buying the 2nd 10 from a different
vendor because 10 was all the first one had, and bought smaller
versions, which will NOT be solderable until I get a good glasses script
to let me see better.

But this panel, out of harder stock twice as thick as the boxes OEM
panel, doesn't yet have a pair of mounting holes in each end,
countersunk for a 2 or 2.5mm flat head screw. And I don't have any
countersinks that small.

So what I've got in mind is to dup it in g-code, or maybe just switch to
a pan head and just drill the holes.

Is there a way to use a g3 with a descending to zero diameter, while at
the same time sinking the tool to emulate a countersink? To a final
depth of around 50 thou? That would not leave a mirror finish
countersink, but since it would also be hidden under the screws head, it
would be "good enough for the girls I go with".

Short of a 20 line loop with descending depth and diameter with a depth
decrement of a couple thou? This thing already has a 40 minute execution
time, so another 5 minutes a hole doesn't sound too unreasonable given
the max speed and ipm of this toy mill. Its still sw stepping at only 28
volts of motor power=watching paint dry speeds, when the 2500 rev
spindle is figured in.

Any other ideas out there?

Thanks all.






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[Emc-users] Done with that panel code, with one exception

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I have the code for this panel done, carving what I think is the correct 
size of dsub cutouts, and 10 holes to hold GS16-5 connectors, and one 
hole for a line cord packing gland.

And copy #2 of it will need to have those 10 holes resized to fit a 
GS12-5 connector, I made a mistake buying the 2nd 10 from a different 
vendor because 10 was all the first one had, and bought smaller 
versions, which will NOT be solderable until I get a good glasses script 
to let me see better.

But this panel, out of harder stock twice as thick as the boxes OEM 
panel, doesn't yet have a pair of mounting holes in each end, 
countersunk for a 2 or 2.5mm flat head screw. And I don't have any 
countersinks that small.

So what I've got in mind is to dup it in g-code, or maybe just switch to 
a pan head and just drill the holes.

Is there a way to use a g3 with a descending to zero diameter, while at 
the same time sinking the tool to emulate a countersink? To a final 
depth of around 50 thou? That would not leave a mirror finish 
countersink, but since it would also be hidden under the screws head, it 
would be "good enough for the girls I go with".

Short of a 20 line loop with descending depth and diameter with a depth 
decrement of a couple thou? This thing already has a 40 minute execution 
time, so another 5 minutes a hole doesn't sound too unreasonable given 
the max speed and ipm of this toy mill. Its still sw stepping at only 28 
volts of motor power=watching paint dry speeds, when the 2500 rev 
spindle is figured in.

Any other ideas out there?

Thanks all.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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