[Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
Kirk, I ran into the same problem with the popup message about ... I forget the exact message but I rammed my carriage into my rails because the popup took focus from the main window and I clicked on the main window trying to hit the e stop button but it was not possible. I was not familiar enough with EMC at the time to know to hit the escape button and don't know if that is blocked too. I also was in the process of learning EMC and setting up my machine. In my case with steppers nothing was damaged. I still belive it is a bad practice to use popups and feel that all messages should be on the bar at the bottom and flash in red if a warning. John On 14 Jun 2008 at 0:46, Kirk Wallace wrote: My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) -- --- Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
Wow - I guess I should be proud of myself that I had a physical estop button and a machine kill switch designed in while things were still on the bench! Ok, enough bragging - get your physical estop button - that button, even one of the high dollar ones, is worth its weight in gold compared to the damage it can do to the machine (or you) if things go awry. I wonder - did your program actually specify a new tool (ie m6 t02) or just an m6 with you knowing what tool it needed next. My mill stops on the M6 T2 that was generated by CamBam and waits (typically I'd been handcoding and doing separate programs for each tool since I don't have an automated touch off concept in place yet). I'm not sure what the manual says about the M6 command but maybe somewhere in the code the toolchanger portion realizes the tool is the same as that currently specifiec and lets the program run on, though still pops up the window for the toolchange. I'm still spoiled by the keyboard - I hit escape (and usually tap it multiple times as I'm used to being deep in autocad levels of commands that I wanted to end) and if necessary F1 more often than I use the mouse, when I complete my operator's station I'm going to need to add another E-Stop switch in the loop as I won't be within rapid reach of the one on the controller anymore. My thought is you should have a mechanical estop in the loop anywhere you might possibly be while the program is running (ie:console, enclosure, spindle) so that you can always stop it. You just have to train yourself to use them. Hope you learned your lesson and we figure why that happened and get anything that needs to be corrected taken care of. Maybe all the OK's should be on a common message center with an Ok and the background of that changes color when a new message is displayed and then goes to a standard background when everything is cleared. Just a thought, but I also think an M6 should stop regardless of what tool is in and what tool is scheduled. The interface has no way of knowing definitively that something wasn't changed. There's my .02x10^-23 - YMMV. Greg www.distinctperspectives.com - Original Message - From: John Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise Kirk, I ran into the same problem with the popup message about ... I forget the exact message but I rammed my carriage into my rails because the popup took focus from the main window and I clicked on the main window trying to hit the e stop button but it was not possible. I was not familiar enough with EMC at the time to know to hit the escape button and don't know if that is blocked too. I also was in the process of learning EMC and setting up my machine. In my case with steppers nothing was damaged. I still belive it is a bad practice to use popups and feel that all messages should be on the bar at the bottom and flash in red if a warning. John On 14 Jun 2008 at 0:46, Kirk Wallace wrote: My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) -- --- Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 09:12 -0400, Greg Michalski wrote: ... snip it can do to the machine (or you) if things go awry. I wonder - did your program actually specify a new tool (ie m6 t02) or just an m6 with you knowing what tool it needed next. My mill stops on the M6 T2 that was generated by CamBam and waits (typically I'd been handcoding and doing separate programs for each tool since I don't have an automated touch off concept in place yet). I'm not sure what the manual says about the M6 command but maybe somewhere in the code the toolchanger portion realizes the tool is the same as that currently specifiec and lets the program run on, though still pops up the window for the toolchange. ... snip The g-code had a normal Tx M6 so the machine would have paused for the tool change if I had the appropriate .hal setup which routes the toolchange - toolchanged signals to some sort of conformation feature. I knew this might be a problem, so I just tried to be very careful to be ready with the e-stop button. Normally, I use the F1, but this time I was ready with the AXIS button, or so I thought. I have a proper hardware button on everything else, I just thought being careful would be okay. That may be how the Challenger blew up. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
Kirk Wallace wrote: My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. You really HAVE to have a hardware E-stop! The business with the pointer focus on the GUI is pretty dangerous, and I run into it all the time. Usually just hitting Enter will get your focus back to the main GUI window, but that is still dangerous. Given how the windowing system works, I don't think there's a way to do what you want. Put in a harware E-stop button. Jon - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
I agree with Jon: You really HAVE to have a hardware E-stop! The business with the pointer focus on the GUI is pretty dangerous, and I run into it all the time. 'In the Beginning' I just used the E-Stop input pin from the HAL, but I was wondering if this is safe enough so I now added a 'real' E-stop. I have a simple machine switch (one of those solenoid controlled Red/Green button things) and just placed an E-stop button in the feed line to this switch (it is a normal closed switch). This combination provides power two relays: one 3-phase relay to provide power to the servos and VFD for the spindle and one relay connected to the E-stop input of EMC2. So hitting the E-stop both cuts power to the power parts and also signals EMC that the machine is stopped. I thought that installing an E-stop was more important than limit switches but I guess I was wrong: I need both ... Regards, Rob - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
Kirk, A physical E-stop is just about the first thing that I setup on a macahine, even before simple testing. The screen focus is not just a problem, it is dangerous, especially working on 'big iron'. A run away motor can blow a table right off it's ways. You can add an E-stop button to axis with pyvcp. Not too sure how big, but with some programming it can probably be enarged. Still no replacement for the phyisical, locking button to kill power to the amps. Keep contact in the button to loop with the hal signal. Good luck. Noel. think Darwin. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk Wallace Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:46 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1502 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 7:25 PM - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
I agree with John: I don't think anyone is saying that you should not have a hardwired e-stop. John On 14 Jun 2008 at 20:47, Rob Jansen wrote: I agree with Jon: You really HAVE to have a hardware E-stop! The business with the pointer focus on the GUI is pretty dangerous, and I run into it all the time. - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
That will suffer from the same loss of focus as the normal Axis e-stop when a popup screen is open... John On 14 Jun 2008 at 13:25, noel wrote: You can add an E-stop button to axis with pyvcp. - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
I've got two big ole Allen-Bradley push buttons wired in series. One in easy reach on each side of the machine. They're the pull and twist to close and push to open type. They're in the AC mains circuit so operation is nearly instantaneous. They control power to the router, motors and controller, but not the computer. They were about $30 US for the pair on eBay. Cheap insurance, I think. Before them, I had run a $45 cutter way into the vacuum table (since repaired with Bondo) and had a Roto-Zip pull itself out of the router into the table. (More Bondo ;^) A few of mistakes like that has made me more careful and observant and I've not yet needed the E-Stop buttons since installation but I'm glad they're there. On a 'real' machine like yours, they can save life, eyes, limb and $$$. DO IT! Thanks for listening, Emory On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 2:46 AM, Kirk Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My mill isn't fully functional yet and I neglected to realize the ramifications of this. A bracket I needed to make required a tool change, so I decided to just do it manually. I checked the program by lowering the knee and single stepping through the program, which at the time seemed okay. I raised the knee, started the program and drilled the holes. The table homed for the tool change displayed the tool change message and proceeded to go ahead with the program without stopping. Unfortunately, the new tool that didn't get changed is shorter so the tool collided with the table. I tried to click the e-stop button in AXIS but it had no effect. Then I realized that the tool change message had the window focus and I needed to clear it before the e-stop would work. I realize I made a few mistakes here, by not having a proper config file and a hardware e-stop button, but I wonder if there should be a way to have the AXIS e-stop always on top and available. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Emory Smith - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] E-stop Surprise
Kirk, and others doing manual tool changes. I add an M00 after the M6 line as a second chance in case something is just not right after a tool change. Case in point. The operator had set the Kwik-Switch spindle spanner down on the machine table after the tool change in a spot the tool would hit it during a rapid move... Gives you a chance to re-cheak that things are safe to proceed. I even do this on a VMC that has random ATC issues where it will change the tool with the spindle not properly oriented so that the CAT40 drive dogs are keeping the tool from seating in the taper - it also means the tool length will be off by approx 1/4 so impact is possible/likely. Greg - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
