Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
Here’s another idea; take several pictures of your part, each from a different point of view. Use OpenSFM to generate a rough 3D mesh of the part. As a second step, use the 3D mesh to identify your z-distance for final optical measurement. > On Mar 14, 2021, at 3:23 AM, Mark Johnsen wrote: > > Any Gelbert videos are like Homer Simpson drooling about bacon... > >> On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 9:17 PM Karl Schmidt wrote: >> >> It isn't hard to get 'A' picture with a USB microscope from China - but >> the problem is getting one that is easily in >> focus - the depth of field is very shallow.. Getting things lit in a way >> to see your 'feature' is another problem. >> >> I have a dark-feild/bright-field microscope with a trinocular camera tube >> - and it still isn't always easy to get a >> great picture of some metal detail.. the special lighting matters - really >> helps if the object is flat. >> >> Mechanical touching might be quicker in a lot of cases.. I saw a camera >> set-up on a lathe where it was focused on the >> tool - so always in focus. >> >> ,.,. >> I have an idea for a touch probe that makes the tool-and machine all part >> of an inductor core (a toroid with a gap) - >> the space between the tool and the part is the air gap - the wire coil can >> be around the colum of the machine (out of >> the way) - the inductance of this coil will change with the air gap - and >> as you touch, the inductance suddenly changes. >> They use such air gaps in power conversion - but here it would just be >> sensed. >> >> I expect that someone has thought of this before and they don't use it due >> to some reason I haven't thought of. >> ,.,. >> >> Gelbart has a LASER jig that can get you close (30-50um).. >> https://youtu.be/otSjut1iGGk?t=140 >> >> he talked about another one with a rotating wireless camera - sub-micron.. >> >> I knew of him when he was involved in making MODEMs suddenly much faster.. >> >> -- >> >> >> Karl Schmidt EMail k...@lrak.net >> 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 979-8397 >> Lawrence, KS 66049 >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
Any Gelbert videos are like Homer Simpson drooling about bacon... On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 9:17 PM Karl Schmidt wrote: > It isn't hard to get 'A' picture with a USB microscope from China - but > the problem is getting one that is easily in > focus - the depth of field is very shallow.. Getting things lit in a way > to see your 'feature' is another problem. > > I have a dark-feild/bright-field microscope with a trinocular camera tube > - and it still isn't always easy to get a > great picture of some metal detail.. the special lighting matters - really > helps if the object is flat. > > Mechanical touching might be quicker in a lot of cases.. I saw a camera > set-up on a lathe where it was focused on the > tool - so always in focus. > > ,.,. > I have an idea for a touch probe that makes the tool-and machine all part > of an inductor core (a toroid with a gap) - > the space between the tool and the part is the air gap - the wire coil can > be around the colum of the machine (out of > the way) - the inductance of this coil will change with the air gap - and > as you touch, the inductance suddenly changes. > They use such air gaps in power conversion - but here it would just be > sensed. > > I expect that someone has thought of this before and they don't use it due > to some reason I haven't thought of. > ,.,. > > Gelbart has a LASER jig that can get you close (30-50um).. > https://youtu.be/otSjut1iGGk?t=140 > > he talked about another one with a rotating wireless camera - sub-micron.. > > I knew of him when he was involved in making MODEMs suddenly much faster.. > > -- > > > Karl Schmidt EMail k...@lrak.net > 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 979-8397 > Lawrence, KS 66049 > > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
Like the cheap USB webcams and microscopes they perform processing on the images before they pipe the data out the ports. The ones you link to below may be made to work for location and measuring. If you don't mind pausing to make measurements or detecting the edges. It will just be more difficult to use them while moving them across the parts. On 3/14/21 12:35 AM, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: There are a lot of "inexpensive" microscopes that are used for PCB repair and inspection like this one... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000835475910.html And more expensive auto-focus options... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000835289877.html There are many combinations of lens and camera. Some USB only. Some cameras have measuring software built in (used via a monitor). Has anyone tried these for CNC location and measuring? -Original Message- From: Bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 13 March 2021 7:39 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration The problem with the cheap webcams is all the frame averaging they automatically do. I regularly see decent machine vision camera bodies on ebay for ~$100 that won't have this issue. A decent lens is about the same used. These pics were all taken with a cheap USB microscope ($50)� that was near useless when there was any motion: https://imgur.com/2B3j01S https://imgur.com/QU0ka4r https://imgur.com/IFdlrj3 https://imgur.com/XKRdpFK This was of a 50um gap between some caliper jaws. Sobel edge detect filter. On 3/12/21 1:40 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote: I had in mind emulating the concept with Linuxcnc and low-budget cameras and probes, not forking over for the German luxury model. I see on eBay cheap part locating cameras, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254714062831 and relatively cheap probes like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333094733077 A swing arm like that Datron uses could be controlled with a beefy RC servo (swung against a mechanical stop for accuracy), and some python scripts could do the UI for picking the probing locations as the Datron video shows. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
There are a lot of "inexpensive" microscopes that are used for PCB repair and inspection like this one... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000835475910.html And more expensive auto-focus options... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000835289877.html There are many combinations of lens and camera. Some USB only. Some cameras have measuring software built in (used via a monitor). Has anyone tried these for CNC location and measuring? -Original Message- From: Bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 13 March 2021 7:39 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration The problem with the cheap webcams is all the frame averaging they automatically do. I regularly see decent machine vision camera bodies on ebay for ~$100 that won't have this issue. A decent lens is about the same used. These pics were all taken with a cheap USB microscope ($50)� that was near useless when there was any motion: https://imgur.com/2B3j01S https://imgur.com/QU0ka4r https://imgur.com/IFdlrj3 https://imgur.com/XKRdpFK This was of a 50um gap between some caliper jaws. Sobel edge detect filter. On 3/12/21 1:40 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote: > I had in mind emulating the concept with Linuxcnc > and low-budget cameras and probes, not forking over > for the German luxury model. I see on eBay cheap > part locating cameras, like this: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/254714062831 > > and relatively cheap probes like this: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/333094733077 > > A swing arm like that Datron uses could be controlled > with a beefy RC servo (swung against a mechanical > stop for accuracy), and some python scripts could > do the UI for picking the probing locations as the Datron > video shows. > > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
It isn't hard to get 'A' picture with a USB microscope from China - but the problem is getting one that is easily in focus - the depth of field is very shallow.. Getting things lit in a way to see your 'feature' is another problem. I have a dark-feild/bright-field microscope with a trinocular camera tube - and it still isn't always easy to get a great picture of some metal detail.. the special lighting matters - really helps if the object is flat. Mechanical touching might be quicker in a lot of cases.. I saw a camera set-up on a lathe where it was focused on the tool - so always in focus. ,.,. I have an idea for a touch probe that makes the tool-and machine all part of an inductor core (a toroid with a gap) - the space between the tool and the part is the air gap - the wire coil can be around the colum of the machine (out of the way) - the inductance of this coil will change with the air gap - and as you touch, the inductance suddenly changes. They use such air gaps in power conversion - but here it would just be sensed. I expect that someone has thought of this before and they don't use it due to some reason I haven't thought of. ,.,. Gelbart has a LASER jig that can get you close (30-50um).. https://youtu.be/otSjut1iGGk?t=140 he talked about another one with a rotating wireless camera - sub-micron.. I knew of him when he was involved in making MODEMs suddenly much faster.. -- Karl Schmidt EMail k...@lrak.net 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 979-8397 Lawrence, KS 66049 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
The problem with the cheap webcams is all the frame averaging they automatically do. I regularly see decent machine vision camera bodies on ebay for ~$100 that won't have this issue. A decent lens is about the same used. These pics were all taken with a cheap USB microscope ($50) that was near useless when there was any motion: https://imgur.com/2B3j01S https://imgur.com/QU0ka4r https://imgur.com/IFdlrj3 https://imgur.com/XKRdpFK This was of a 50um gap between some caliper jaws. Sobel edge detect filter. On 3/12/21 1:40 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote: I had in mind emulating the concept with Linuxcnc and low-budget cameras and probes, not forking over for the German luxury model. I see on eBay cheap part locating cameras, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254714062831 and relatively cheap probes like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333094733077 A swing arm like that Datron uses could be controlled with a beefy RC servo (swung against a mechanical stop for accuracy), and some python scripts could do the UI for picking the probing locations as the Datron video shows. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
I had in mind emulating the concept with Linuxcnc and low-budget cameras and probes, not forking over for the German luxury model. I see on eBay cheap part locating cameras, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254714062831 and relatively cheap probes like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333094733077 A swing arm like that Datron uses could be controlled with a beefy RC servo (swung against a mechanical stop for accuracy), and some python scripts could do the UI for picking the probing locations as the Datron video shows. -- Ralph From: dave engvall [dengv...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 11:21 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email system. I rather hate to think of the cost ... beautiful stuff ... German made. It is easy to make a probe; good software to extract the real value of the probe, not so easy. Dave On 3/12/21 9:14 AM, Ralph Stirling wrote: > This would be an awesome setup for Linuxcnc. > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.datron.com%2Frevolutionize-workpiece-setup%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Cd5ca6f1fe69d4ba9c07208d8e58c1f48%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637511737284546998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mFHJDDd2VQ4vpvpkSPVPDL2aCowjBegEl10TgwCO81w%3D&reserved=0 > > -- Ralph > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Cd5ca6f1fe69d4ba9c07208d8e58c1f48%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637511737284546998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NiKFd6KgTgpLIM66GDQeZn%2BhQIpurUC91UikOZ3o%2BT0%3D&reserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Cd5ca6f1fe69d4ba9c07208d8e58c1f48%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637511737284556994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AnpjWJfagnjj5UC5On9pg937OpaCRu23KDz9Nqx78lc%3D&reserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
On 03/12/2021 11:14 AM, Ralph Stirling wrote: This would be an awesome setup for Linuxcnc. https://www.datron.com/revolutionize-workpiece-setup/ I got a "USB microscope" and built it into a tool holder and hooked it up with camview to show in a window of LinuxCNC. It worked, but I really wasn't happy with the result. The camera did some kind of really horrible interpolation, so the expanded image was not very sharp. I couldn't tell which edge was the real edge of the material if it had been deburred. See http://pico-systems.com/centcam.html for some pictures, etc. So, I lucked into a deal on a Blum 3-axis touch probe. I had to build an IR interface to it. I wrote a bunch of programs to pick up corners of parts and set the coordinate system. It works much better, but, yes, the probe tip is fragile. Jon ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
I rather hate to think of the cost ... beautiful stuff ... German made. It is easy to make a probe; good software to extract the real value of the probe, not so easy. Dave On 3/12/21 9:14 AM, Ralph Stirling wrote: This would be an awesome setup for Linuxcnc. https://www.datron.com/revolutionize-workpiece-setup/ -- Ralph ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Nice camera/probe integration
This would be an awesome setup for Linuxcnc. https://www.datron.com/revolutionize-workpiece-setup/ -- Ralph ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
