Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
I have a very good Cat40 bolt to bench for installing tools but it is a nasty job to bolt the cat40 back into the spindle. If I could get access I’d pull the whole mess and replace (ideally). The stack is 105 washers so not too expensive. I’ll climb up on top and take another good look down the bore and see if there is any hope. > On Mar 19, 2024, at 1:12 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote: > > The mining industry uses these washer stacks to secure replaceable wear > plates in Jaw crushers. Twist the nut down until the compressed washers > all fit into a “cup” and viola bolt is torqued and the bolt has additional > springiness beyond just the steel of the bolt > > I would agree with Todd replacement is best as these are technically “wear > parts”. But sounds like the ability to do this job was redesigned to be > costly and less repairable. > > Can you add an extension the rod and add an additional stack of washers in > a more convenient location? Got a cross section of the area? > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
The mining industry uses these washer stacks to secure replaceable wear plates in Jaw crushers. Twist the nut down until the compressed washers all fit into a “cup” and viola bolt is torqued and the bolt has additional springiness beyond just the steel of the bolt I would agree with Todd replacement is best as these are technically “wear parts”. But sounds like the ability to do this job was redesigned to be costly and less repairable. Can you add an extension the rod and add an additional stack of washers in a more convenient location? Got a cross section of the area? ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
On 3/19/24 11:19, Dave Engvall wrote: Indeed, using drive dog threaded holes. Initially I did think about a flat disc but cannot see that gives me any better holding strength than the dogs with a slight tee on top so one gets both drive and cat40 retention. The other problem is keeping the spindle from rotating while I torque down the tool. Tool holder is a Cat40 SK16 which gives me better rigidity than a ER collet. The concept is to use AlCrN coated tools with coolant in hopes of getting decent tool life. A local shop is getting about 5000 feet of path length/cutter but also using coolant! Even with light cuts that is moving a lot of material in my case 8620 or 20 carbon steel, not too challenging. Have you seen the "Cats Claw"? Or any of the dozens of tools you bolt to a table to be used to hold a cat 40 while installing tools? On Mar 18, 2024, at 5:26 PM, andy pugh wrote: On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 21:13, Dave Engvall wrote: So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while in the spindle. I am not 100% sure what you are describing. Are you saying that you are using some tapped holes in the spindle face to hold Tee nuts to retain the tooling? Or are you maybe using the drive dog threaded holes? Whilst a proper repair to the drawbar seems like the correct fix, I think that a machined ring to retain an ER collet holder might be better than what I think you are describing. (Then you can just swap tools and collets) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
I think I'd rather just fix the washer stack/clamping issue. Repeatable, easy tool changes is so worth the effort. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Dave Engvall Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:18 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. Indeed, using drive dog threaded holes. Initially I did think about a flat disc but cannot see that gives me any better holding strength than the dogs with a slight tee on top so one gets both drive and cat40 retention. The other problem is keeping the spindle from rotating while I torque down the tool. Tool holder is a Cat40 SK16 which gives me better rigidity than a ER collet. The concept is to use AlCrN coated tools with coolant in hopes of getting decent tool life. A local shop is getting about 5000 feet of path length/cutter but also using coolant! Even with light cuts that is moving a lot of material in my case 8620 or 20 carbon steel, not too challenging. > On Mar 18, 2024, at 5:26 PM, andy pugh wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 21:13, Dave Engvall wrote: > >> So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the >> M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. >> (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while >> in the spindle. >> > > I am not 100% sure what you are describing. > > Are you saying that you are using some tapped holes in the spindle > face to hold Tee nuts to retain the tooling? Or are you maybe using > the drive dog threaded holes? > > Whilst a proper repair to the drawbar seems like the correct fix, I > think that a machined ring to retain an ER collet holder might be > better than what I think you are describing. > > (Then you can just swap tools and collets) > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://list/ > s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=05%7C02%7Ctoddz% > 40pgrahamdunn.com%7C1d89087e4afa4f525de208dc4827e52d%7C5758544c573f47c > ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638464583399170359%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C > 0%7C%7C%7C=qu%2FmUEH7qsgy%2BQuI05lJwjYTsJ7jycTBFHv51Gf33qI%3D > served=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
Indeed, using drive dog threaded holes. Initially I did think about a flat disc but cannot see that gives me any better holding strength than the dogs with a slight tee on top so one gets both drive and cat40 retention. The other problem is keeping the spindle from rotating while I torque down the tool. Tool holder is a Cat40 SK16 which gives me better rigidity than a ER collet. The concept is to use AlCrN coated tools with coolant in hopes of getting decent tool life. A local shop is getting about 5000 feet of path length/cutter but also using coolant! Even with light cuts that is moving a lot of material in my case 8620 or 20 carbon steel, not too challenging. > On Mar 18, 2024, at 5:26 PM, andy pugh wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 21:13, Dave Engvall wrote: > >> So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the >> M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. >> (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while in >> the spindle. >> > > I am not 100% sure what you are describing. > > Are you saying that you are using some tapped holes in the spindle face to > hold Tee nuts to retain the tooling? Or are you maybe using the drive dog > threaded holes? > > Whilst a proper repair to the drawbar seems like the correct fix, I think > that a machined ring to retain an ER collet holder might be better than > what I think you are describing. > > (Then you can just swap tools and collets) > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed > for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 21:13, Dave Engvall wrote: > So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the > M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. > (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while in > the spindle. > I am not 100% sure what you are describing. Are you saying that you are using some tapped holes in the spindle face to hold Tee nuts to retain the tooling? Or are you maybe using the drive dog threaded holes? Whilst a proper repair to the drawbar seems like the correct fix, I think that a machined ring to retain an ER collet holder might be better than what I think you are describing. (Then you can just swap tools and collets) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
On 3/18/24 17:11, Dave Engvall wrote: On my Muzak the belleville stack is too far gone to retain tools. Access is from the top which means removing the spindle motor, and transmission a nontrivial task. A couple of years earlier model everything came out the bottom and would have been a much easier job. So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while in the spindle. Any inspiration? No idea Dave, my stuff is all R8 or TTS/ER. Maybe somebody else has better advice. Dave ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Not so slight problem with spindle/tools
On my Muzak the belleville stack is too far gone to retain tools. Access is from the top which means removing the spindle motor, and transmission a nontrivial task. A couple of years earlier model everything came out the bottom and would have been a much easier job. So I’ve built Tee-nuts that will retain the cat40 assuming the M6 shcs hold. Planned use is to use small tools at max spindle speed. (4K). I need ideas to clamp the cat40 so I can torque down tool while in the spindle. Any inspiration? Dave ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
