Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:19:25 + (UTC), you wrote: Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. H. Hi Tom - as Jon said, tapered ball end mills are made for just that type of job. They aren't cheap though, so personally I'd rough it with an ordinary 2 flute ball end mill, then do a finish cut with a taper ball mill. Steve Blackmore -- -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Greg Michalski emc2usrl...@... writes: snip... Aside from a 5 axis (drool..), would a tapered endmill (such as used for mold work) achieve the desired angle? Just spit-balling. Very nice work Tom - great to see stuff like this. Thanks Greg. I have not used tapered endmill yet, but it looks favorable going forward. I saw the mention of EMC2 2.3...at the risk of getting the whole list drooling on keyboards and causing mass crashing of emc-users list member's computers, is 2.3 expected within the next ~3 months or so? I noticed that Chris R., John E., and Steve B. have already answered some of your questions (Thanks guys). Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Get a tapered end mill. Ken Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: Tom wrote: Steve Blackmore st...@... writes: Hi Tom - can't you remove them with a full depth finishing cut? Distinct edges like that are stress magnets ;) Steve Blackmore Hi Steve, Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. What you need is a 5-axis mill :) (nice stuff, by the way) - Steve -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Kenneth Lerman Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC 55 Main Street Newtown, CT 06470 888-ISO-SEVO 203-426-7166 -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Tom wrote: Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. Kenneth Lerman wrote: Get a tapered end mill. One thing to keep in mind when considering the tapered end mill idea is chatter. The existing stepped design limits the depth of cut (width of cutting edge engaged) to the height of one step. If you use a tapered end mill, the cutting edge will be engaged in the cut over its full length. You are much more likely to get chatter in that case. A high helix cutter will help, as will ensuring that the finish cut isn't too deep. Another chatter risk is cutting inside radii with a cutter that is the same as (or very close to) the finished radius. If the cutter radius is close to the part radius, then the path of the tool centerline has a sharp or nearly sharp corner. Just before the tool reaches that corner, the amount of tool perimeter engaged in the cut increases dramatically. (Hard to explain in words - see the attached sketch. The heavy red line is the portion of the tool perimeter that is cutting.) The result can easily be chatter and a crappy surface finish. If you decide to use a tapered end mill for the finishing cuts, keep both of these issues in mind, and take some test cuts. It would be a shame to have the very last cuts in the part start chattering and make a mess of things. I'm sure both of these issues are old-hat to the experienced machinists here, but I learned them both the hard way - hopefully this will spare someone else the same experience. Regards, John Kasunich inside-corner.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
At 09:48 AM 1/16/2009, you wrote: One thing to keep in mind when considering the tapered end mill idea is chatter. The existing stepped design limits the depth of cut (width of cutting edge engaged) to the height of one step. If you use a tapered end mill, the cutting edge will be engaged in the cut over its full length. You are much more likely to get chatter in that case. A high helix cutter will help, as will ensuring that the finish cut isn't too deep. Another chatter risk is cutting inside radii with a cutter that is the same as (or very close to) the finished radius. If the cutter radius is close to the part radius, then the path of the tool centerline has a sharp or nearly sharp corner. Just before the tool reaches that corner, the amount of tool perimeter engaged in the cut increases dramatically. (Hard to explain in words - see the attached sketch. The heavy red line is the portion of the tool perimeter that is cutting.) The result can easily be chatter and a crappy surface finish. If you decide to use a tapered end mill for the finishing cuts, keep both of these issues in mind, and take some test cuts. It would be a shame to have the very last cuts in the part start chattering and make a mess of things. I'm sure both of these issues are old-hat to the experienced machinists here, but I learned them both the hard way - hopefully this will spare someone else the same experience. Regards, John Kasunich Yep, were it me I would put some bigger radii in the corners and run a carbide ball end mill finish pass with say 0.005 or less down steps. Wind it up as fast as it will turn and feed it as fast as it will go. In the video that squawking that John is referring to in the corners is something you can get away with in aluminum and softer steel but if you are cutting 60Rc tool steel and you hear that you may as well just stop and change the cutter because it is done cutting. __ Andre' B. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
John Kasunich wrote: One thing to keep in mind when considering the tapered end mill idea is chatter. The existing stepped design limits the depth of cut (width of cutting edge engaged) to the height of one step. If you use a tapered end mill, the cutting edge will be engaged in the cut over its full length. You are much more likely to get chatter in that case. A high helix cutter will help, as will ensuring that the finish cut isn't too deep. It seems logical that this would be a problem, but my sample of one test making an ill-fated mold cavity with one was that something in the dynamics of the taper reduces the chatter. Of course, the taper makes the shank end stiffer, which is good, but the buildup of resonances is a major factor in chatter, too. I think the differing diameters seems to prevent these resonances. But, then I only did this one time, so I may not have explored the range of possibilities much. Another chatter risk is cutting inside radii with a cutter that is the same as (or very close to) the finished radius. If the cutter radius is close to the part radius, then the path of the tool centerline has a sharp or nearly sharp corner. Just before the tool reaches that corner, the amount of tool perimeter engaged in the cut increases dramatically. (Hard to explain in words - see the attached sketch. The heavy red line is the portion of the tool perimeter that is cutting.) The result can easily be chatter and a crappy surface finish. My project was a round, tapered bore, so I didn't create that condition. You can always program the radius to avoid this. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Andre B. ablanch...@... writes: Yep, were it me I would put some bigger radii in the corners and run a carbide ball end mill finish pass with say 0.005 or less down steps. Wind it up as fast as it will turn and feed it as fast as it will go. In the video that squawking that John is referring to in the corners is something you can get away with in aluminum and softer steel but if you are cutting 60Rc tool steel and you hear that you may as well just stop and change the cutter because it is done cutting. Hi Andre, So you heard that noise too huh? (Ahem) Thanks for the insight into the causes of chatter. Thanks to John too. I have been curious re: the proper way to use tapered ball end mills, so now is the time to find out. Upgrading to Emc2 has opened a virtual wonderland of machining capabilities that I could only dream of when I was working/fighting with the Bandit controller. I only have a week of machine time under my belt with Emc2, but it feels longer. I tried enlarging the corner radii in the pockets, which only let me go faster and make nastier noises in the corners. I think Mastercam has high speed machining strategies that will reduce cutter embedding/burial in the corners. With the old Bandit controller high speed machining was a joke, so now with EMC2 I have more toys to try out than time to try them. When I finish with the current work, I will tweak the G64 P-X settings and try out some of the high speed bells and whistles under the hood of Mastercam. If I get any noteworthy results, I will post them. Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Tom, bravo ! Are the parallel marks inside the part made on purpose or due to the multi layer milling ? Jorge L. -Mensagem original- De: Tom [mailto:kestrel...@yahoo.com] Enviada em: quinta-feira, 15 de janeiro de 2009 03:23 Para: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Assunto: [Emc-users] Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...) Emc2 community, I finally produced my first part on my new Kasuga/Emc2 (Mesa 5i20/7i33) knee mill conversion. I am very happy with the results! The mill will do 500 ipm rapids, and feeds so far can hit 30 ipm with very accurate results. Lots of tiny moves tend to slow the feedrates down a bit, but I have no complaints. See the following video sample of the toolpath being cut for a lightening pocket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWd29Vv1gcA Here is how I am handling manual tool changes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2whmSV74vw Some more photos of the conversion and the first part to come from it (the part is a heavy duty triple tree for a V8 powered trike - to give you an idea of the scale, the polished fork tube in the following photos is 2 dia.): http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/conversion_sm.jpg http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/firstpart2sm.jpg http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/tripleT-sm.jpg http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/tripleT-sm.jpg http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/ttclamp2-sm.jpg The parts are coming out s fine. No dwell marks, no backlash comp marks, just nice smooth surfaces. Accuracy is dead-on. I'm really happy right now :-) A hearty thank you to all of you who have taken the time and dedication to post your conversion information (Anders W.), as well as those who wrote the software, made the interface boards, and graciously answered all my questions and put up with my stupidities (Chris R., Peter W., Sebastian, John K., Alex, Kirk, Stephen W.P., et al.) Thank you all! Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Louren=E7o_Jr.?= writes: Tom, bravo ! Are the parallel marks inside the part made on purpose or due to the multi layer milling ? Jorge L. Hi Jorge, Those marks are from multi layer milling. Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:40:59 + (UTC), you wrote: Are the parallel marks inside the part made on purpose or due to the multi layer milling ? Jorge L. Hi Jorge, Those marks are from multi layer milling. Hi Tom - can't you remove them with a full depth finishing cut? Distinct edges like that are stress magnets ;) Steve Blackmore -- -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Steve Blackmore st...@... writes: Hi Tom - can't you remove them with a full depth finishing cut? Distinct edges like that are stress magnets ;) Steve Blackmore Hi Steve, Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. H. Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Tom wrote: Steve Blackmore st...@... writes: Hi Tom - can't you remove them with a full depth finishing cut? Distinct edges like that are stress magnets ;) Steve Blackmore Hi Steve, Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. What you need is a 5-axis mill :) (nice stuff, by the way) - Steve -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Hi Tom - can't you remove them with a full depth finishing cut? Distinct edges like that are stress magnets ;) Steve Blackmore Hi Steve, Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. What you need is a 5-axis mill :) (nice stuff, by the way) - Steve Aside from a 5 axis (drool..), would a tapered endmill (such as used for mold work) achieve the desired angle? Just spit-balling. Very nice work Tom - great to see stuff like this. I better not let my brother see those - he loves his motorcycles (as I once did, now I value my brain staying within my skull since a friend of mine broke his pelvis in 3 places and wore a 'hoop' for nearly a year). I saw the mention of EMC2 2.3...at the risk of getting the whole list drooling on keyboards and causing mass crashing of emc-users list member's computers, is 2.3 expected within the next ~3 months or so? Again - congrats and keep machine info coming! Greg www.distinctperspectives.com -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:44:48PM -0500, Greg Michalski wrote: I saw the mention of EMC2 2.3...at the risk of getting the whole list drooling on keyboards and causing mass crashing of emc-users list member's computers, is 2.3 expected within the next ~3 months or so? I think this plan still looks reasonable: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2.3Status There is SO much new stuff. We will need to do a lot of work testing/stabilizing it. I'm still working on the cutter comp. The changelog is a little out of date (last updated it in Nov), but most of the new stuff is listed there. http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=HEAD Chris -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RES: Successful Emc2 conversion (happy dance...)
Tom wrote: Hi Steve, Those are tapered walls. The contours for those pockets are about 50 thou inset at the bottom of the pocket, so the walls are that much thicker down there. It might be worth investigating using a 3/8 endmill with a 1/16 radius end. That would give some gradation to each Z level step, plus the bottom cut would have the full radiused corners. You can get tapered endmills in a variety of shallow tapers. They are usually used for the draft in mold cavities, but can also be used for this purpose of tapered pockets. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
