Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Mark Wendt]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Monday 23 September 2013 08:49:33 Mark Wendt did opine:


 
  Nah, he needs one a these:
 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3
  984.m1423.l2649

 But thats a Tek, its wyy old, and according to the link, a box of
 parts.  He needs something that Just Works, not a service engineers worst
 nightmare before he even gets back to thinking about his problem.


Then how about this one:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271275574595?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

You realize that the above was written tongue-in-cheek...  ;-)


 I have long time experience with 2 different Hitachi scopes.  You turn them
 on, and they work.  Those Tek things were great when A, they were new, and
 B, in an RD lab.

 Tek today is a far cry from the Tek that impressed the hell out of me in
 the early 60's when they had a lifetime warranty.  But now they clean out
 the parts crib 30 milliseconds after the federally mandated 5 years support
 period has passed and beyond that 5 years there is NO support.


The beauty of those mainframe scopes is they are repairable.  I'm up to a
half dozen, in lab mainframe scopes to TM500 and TM5000 plugin scopes.  And
they all Just Work.  ;-)


 Heck, for this job, one of the DS-2O1's would work, but he would have a far
 harder time learning to use it with its limited controls that do everything
 depending on the mode its in, and its bandwidth is such that it would miss
 step pulses, confusing him.  He isn't familiar with a scope at all I
 suspect, so he needs something where every knob does exactly what you
 expect once he learns what to expect.  The phrase Just Works keeps coming
 to mind.


Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 September 2013 06:45:22 Mark Wendt did opine:

 On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  On Monday 23 September 2013 08:49:33 Mark Wendt did opine:
   Nah, he needs one a these:
   
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksi
   d=p3 984.m1423.l2649
  
  But thats a Tek, its wyy old, and according to the link, a box of
  parts.  He needs something that Just Works, not a service engineers
  worst nightmare before he even gets back to thinking about his
  problem.
 
 Then how about this one:
 
 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/271275574595?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3
 984.m1423.l2649

Thats a lot better, and its a good price too.  But I'd need a cart, one 
capable of climbing stairs, or negotiating the hill of my back yard getting 
to the shop.  How old is it?
 
 You realize that the above was written tongue-in-cheek...  ;-)
 
  I have long time experience with 2 different Hitachi scopes.  You turn
  them on, and they work.  Those Tek things were great when A, they
  were new, and B, in an RD lab.
  
  Tek today is a far cry from the Tek that impressed the hell out of me
  in the early 60's when they had a lifetime warranty.  But now they
  clean out the parts crib 30 milliseconds after the federally mandated
  5 years support period has passed and beyond that 5 years there is NO
  support.
 
 The beauty of those mainframe scopes is they are repairable.

Even when the last one of that model to come off the line is 10 years old?  
To repair, one must have access to the inhouse, custom made parts.  My last 
interface with Tek (they are AKA Grass Valley Group and make  big 
production house sized video switchers with effects) was when I needed one 
of their custom IC's on a plate, basically a high speed op-amp.  They had 
one left, $1700, take it or leave it  had no idea if it was new or used or 
even good.  So I went looking for a video op-amp usable at those supply 
voltages  talked National Semi out of 2 samples.  It worked, but was 
enough faster than the Tek gizmo that you could see the color shift as the 
fader was moved.  I should have ordered a stick of them  replaced all of 
them, which would have put it all back in color phase.  But putting it in 
was a bitch, and really should had had a pcb made as its leads weren't 
quite long enough to reach the pcb holes where the Tek part was soldered 
in.  If I would have had my mill cutting pcb's then, I would have.  IIRC I 
would have needed 144 of them.  The switcher was a 24 input, 6 bus model.  
Bigger control panel than the 1701-D.  The better op-amp? $1.13 in 100's.

 I'm up to
 a half dozen, in lab mainframe scopes to TM500 and TM5000 plugin
 scopes.  And they all Just Work.  ;-)
 
  Heck, for this job, one of the DS-2O1's would work, but he would have
  a far harder time learning to use it with its limited controls that
  do everything depending on the mode its in, and its bandwidth is such
  that it would miss step pulses, confusing him.  He isn't familiar
  with a scope at all I suspect, so he needs something where every
  knob does exactly what you expect once he learns what to expect.  The
  phrase Just Works keeps coming to mind.
 
 Mark
 
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Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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A pen in the hand of this president is far more
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 
  Then how about this one:
 
 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/271275574595?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3
  984.m1423.l2649

 Thats a lot better, and its a good price too.  But I'd need a cart, one
 capable of climbing stairs, or negotiating the hill of my back yard getting
 to the shop.  How old is it?


Late 70's, early 80's.


 
  The beauty of those mainframe scopes is they are repairable.

 Even when the last one of that model to come off the line is 10 years old?
 To repair, one must have access to the inhouse, custom made parts.  My last
 interface with Tek (they are AKA Grass Valley Group and make  big
 production house sized video switchers with effects) was when I needed one
 of their custom IC's on a plate, basically a high speed op-amp.  They had
 one left, $1700, take it or leave it  had no idea if it was new or used or
 even good.  So I went looking for a video op-amp usable at those supply
 voltages  talked National Semi out of 2 samples.  It worked, but was
 enough faster than the Tek gizmo that you could see the color shift as the
 fader was moved.  I should have ordered a stick of them  replaced all of
 them, which would have put it all back in color phase.  But putting it in
 was a bitch, and really should had had a pcb made as its leads weren't
 quite long enough to reach the pcb holes where the Tek part was soldered
 in.  If I would have had my mill cutting pcb's then, I would have.  IIRC I
 would have needed 144 of them.  The switcher was a 24 input, 6 bus model.
 Bigger control panel than the 1701-D.  The better op-amp? $1.13 in 100's.


There are a few in-house parts in those scopes, but the vast majority of
parts are still being made.  You can usually find the in-house parts on
Ebay, or through a few companies that have them in stock, both NOS and
pulled from machines that became parts pigs.  I've got a 7623 storage
mainframe, a 7603 no-storage scope, and I've had my eye out for one of
those 7854's for a while.  There's also a 7103 1 GHz scope and a 7844 dual
beam scope I'd love to get my hands on.



 Cheers, Gene
 --
 There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 But they went to MARS around 1953!!
 A pen in the hand of this president is far more
 dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
  law-abiding citizens.


Cheers,
Mark
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:


 
  Then how about this one:
 
 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/271275574595?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3
  984.m1423.l2649

 Thats a lot better, and its a good price too.  But I'd need a cart, one
 capable of climbing stairs, or negotiating the hill of my back yard getting
 to the shop.  How old is it?


Late 70's, early 80's.


 
  The beauty of those mainframe scopes is they are repairable.

 Even when the last one of that model to come off the line is 10 years old?
 To repair, one must have access to the inhouse, custom made parts.  My last
 interface with Tek (they are AKA Grass Valley Group and make  big
 production house sized video switchers with effects) was when I needed one
 of their custom IC's on a plate, basically a high speed op-amp.  They had
 one left, $1700, take it or leave it  had no idea if it was new or used or
 even good.  So I went looking for a video op-amp usable at those supply
 voltages  talked National Semi out of 2 samples.  It worked, but was
 enough faster than the Tek gizmo that you could see the color shift as the
 fader was moved.  I should have ordered a stick of them  replaced all of
 them, which would have put it all back in color phase.  But putting it in
 was a bitch, and really should had had a pcb made as its leads weren't
 quite long enough to reach the pcb holes where the Tek part was soldered
 in.  If I would have had my mill cutting pcb's then, I would have.  IIRC I
 would have needed 144 of them.  The switcher was a 24 input, 6 bus model.
 Bigger control panel than the 1701-D.  The better op-amp? $1.13 in 100's.


There are a few in-house parts in those scopes, but the vast majority of
parts are still being made.  You can usually find the in-house parts on
Ebay, or through a few companies that have them in stock, both NOS and
pulled from machines that became parts pigs.  I've got a 7623 storage
mainframe, a 7603 no-storage scope, and I've had my eye out for one of
those 7854's for a while.  There's also a 7103 1 GHz scope and a 7844 dual
beam scope I'd love to get my hands on.


 Cheers, Gene



Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[andy pugh]

On 23 September 2013 00:22, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:
  The advice earlier about connecting the + terminal of each
  drive input pin to +5V and connecting the BoB inputs to the - terminal
  on the drives was, I think, good. That is how my drives need to be wired.

 *Tried swapping the + and - and it doesn't work.

That is not at all what I mean.

The fact that the drives have + and - terminals for the step and dir
inputs means that there are almost certainly opto-isolators on the
inputs.

These need to pass current for the internal drive electronics to see a
step signal. (don't think in terms of the signals being voltages, once
you have optos you are signalling with currents).

First of all, that BoB needs a power supply. Do you have a USB cable
plugged in to the USB port, or 5V supply to the connector near the USB
port? This supplies a nice solid 5V and 0V for the BoB logic to work
from.

Then connect the 5V terminals (bottom left of the manual photo of the
BoB) to the + terminal of each stepper drive. This provides the
current source for the input optos on the drive. Connect the -step and
-dir terminals on the drive to the step/dir pins on the BoB.

Now download the parallel port tester program here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester

You can now twiddle the pins directly and work out exactly which pin
on the port connects to which terminal on each drive. You need to work
out what  pin value (on or off) gives 0V at the stepper drive -
terminal. (because 0V at the - terminal and 5V at the + terminal is
the current-flow condition, and indicates a step). Depending on
whether the BoB inverts the pin values or not, this could be either
way.

If pin-off == 0V at the drive terminal then you need to invert the pin
in stepconf.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Mark Wendt]

On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:




   4. An oscilloscope to see whats going on can be very enlightening.
 
  *Don't have one.

 Ebay.com.  I've had one of these for about 20 years.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-V-1065A-Dual-Trace-2-Channel-100-MHz-

 Oscilloscope-800101145-/360741833195?pt=BI_Oscilloscopeshash=item53fde389eb
 

 Its been on enough small aircraft that I've had to slip the case off 
 tighten all the frame assembly screws, but it is still in decent
 calibration.  No probes, but Jameco sells a good, 200 mhz rated switchable
 1x/10x for about a $20 bill each.  And no manual.  I don't need one as I've
 had a scope probe in one hand since 1951, but you might need some basic
 instruction.  There are all sorts of tektronix scopes on ebay, some pretty
 cheap.  Run, don't walk for the nearest exit, they will be out of
 calibration, and because of custom parts values drift over anything past 5
 years, and will NOT be calibratable ever again.


Nah, he needs one a these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Then he can start collecting all the neat plugins too.  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[andy pugh]

On 23 September 2013 10:34, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nah, he needs one a these:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

More practically:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-DSO201-Portable-Pocket-sized-Nano-Handheld-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ahn-/171035159323

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Mark Wendt]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:50 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 23 September 2013 10:34, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

  Nah, he needs one a these:
 
 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 More practically:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-DSO201-Portable-Pocket-sized-Nano-Handheld-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ahn-/171035159323

 --
 atp



Where's the fun in that?  Can't collect the nifty plugins like you can for
a 7000 series lab scope.  ;-)

All this is tongue-in-cheek of course.  A 7854 with a waveform generator
and storage is just a wee bit of overkill.  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 23 September 2013 08:49:33 Mark Wendt did opine:

 On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
4. An oscilloscope to see whats going on can be very enlightening.
   
   *Don't have one.
  
  Ebay.com.  I've had one of these for about 20 years.
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-V-1065A-Dual-Trace-2-Channel-100-MHz-
  
  Oscilloscope-800101145-/360741833195?pt=BI_Oscilloscopeshash=item53fd
  e389eb
  
  
  Its been on enough small aircraft that I've had to slip the case off 
  tighten all the frame assembly screws, but it is still in decent
  calibration.  No probes, but Jameco sells a good, 200 mhz rated
  switchable 1x/10x for about a $20 bill each.  And no manual.  I don't
  need one as I've had a scope probe in one hand since 1951, but you
  might need some basic instruction.  There are all sorts of tektronix
  scopes on ebay, some pretty cheap.  Run, don't walk for the nearest
  exit, they will be out of calibration, and because of custom parts
  values drift over anything past 5 years, and will NOT be calibratable
  ever again.
 
 Nah, he needs one a these:
 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3
 984.m1423.l2649

But thats a Tek, its wyy old, and according to the link, a box of 
parts.  He needs something that Just Works, not a service engineers worst 
nightmare before he even gets back to thinking about his problem.

I have long time experience with 2 different Hitachi scopes.  You turn them 
on, and they work.  Those Tek things were great when A, they were new, and 
B, in an RD lab.

Tek today is a far cry from the Tek that impressed the hell out of me in 
the early 60's when they had a lifetime warranty.  But now they clean out 
the parts crib 30 milliseconds after the federally mandated 5 years support 
period has passed and beyond that 5 years there is NO support.

Heck, for this job, one of the DS-2O1's would work, but he would have a far 
harder time learning to use it with its limited controls that do everything 
depending on the mode its in, and its bandwidth is such that it would miss 
step pulses, confusing him.  He isn't familiar with a scope at all I 
suspect, so he needs something where every knob does exactly what you 
expect once he learns what to expect.  The phrase Just Works keeps coming 
to mind.

 
 Then he can start collecting all the neat plugins too.  ;-)
 
 Mark
 
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Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

In the long run, every program becomes rococo, and then rubble.
-- Alan Perlis
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 23 September 2013 09:12:28 andy pugh did opine:

 On 23 September 2013 10:34, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:
  Nah, he needs one a these:
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110870354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=
  p3984.m1423.l2649
 
 More practically:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-DSO201-Portable-Pocket-sized-Nano-Handheld-D
 igital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ahn-/171035159323

A 1 MHZ analog bandwidth isn't enough Andy, and on mine, battery life is a 
problem.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Pull the wool over your own eyes!
-- J. R. Bob Dobbs
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
 law-abiding citizens.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

Got the drives and motors from Wantai Motor (same company as Longs Motor). Same 
Chinese stuff as a dozen others sell.
Their drives are marked DQ860MA.

The signal connectors have + and - for pulse, direction, and enable. All the - 
terminals connect together to a ground for each motor output on the BOB I'm 
using. On the BOB that came with the set all the - lines from all the drives 
were supposed to connect to a single terminal. (That looked like a sure fire 
way for a short or power spike to fry everything.)

The other connections are ground an +VDC for power and A+ A- B+ B- for the 
motor coils. There's also 8 switches. One enables/disables idle current 
reduction. The others set the current from 2.8/2.0 peak/RMS to 7.8/5.6 and the 
pulse/rev from 400 to 51200.

Couldn't get any movement except sporadic jerking until I set the switches for 
400 and entered 200 in stepconf.

If I check the invert box on the direction pin it changes which button makes 
the motor spin, but it will only spin counterclockwise.

Right now I just want to get them to spin in both directions so I know the 
hardware is good, ought to be, it's all new. Full configuration can wait until 
the mill is ready to have the motors installed. (I had three 4 on 75mm to 
NEMA34 adapter plates made by Augustine Machine. $62 something shipped.)

I checked again and just a little gentle rotation around the shaft axis while 
running makes it stop. So does picking it straight up in line with the shaft 
axis. That's the issue that's really bugging me because that's the motion the X 
axis motor is going to get a lot of.

Have to get it to run both directions to see if it's some setup fault causing 
the motion sickness. I know other people are using this BOB and these drives or 
very similar ones with LinuxCNC. Would be nice if they'd share their stepconf 
files.

When/if this works I'll share mine *and* the wiring details showing exactly 
what connects where. Whomever the actual manufacturer of the motors is, they've 
changed the wire colors to red, green, blue, yellow on the 4 wire ones but 
nobody has documentation showing those colors. Holding wires together shows the 
coils are red/green and blue/yellow.

On Sat, 9/21/13, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Saturday, September 21, 2013, 11:10 PM
 
 2013/9/22 Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com
 
  With my new BOB (HY-JK02-M) I've managed to get a motor
 to run and run
  smoothly, but only in one direction. (Once I set the
 parallel port pins to
  match the docs settings for Mach3.) I tried swapping
 the wires on one
  phase, ran quite rough and still only one direction so
 I swapped them back.
  I've checked the connection tightness multiple times on
 everything, all
  screwed down tight.
 
 
 Some drives have step/dir and cw/ccw modes, check that.
 
 
  That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that
 when the motor is
  running if I pick it up or move it, it stops running.
 Doesn't matter if
  it's laying down or standing on its back end, if it's
 picked straight up or
  allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and
 squeals. Tried two
  of the three, both do the same thing.
 
 
 That's weird. Which stepper drives do you use?
 
 
  That is going to be a bit useless on a mill table where
 the X-axis motor
  is going to be moving back and forth.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

It sounds like you have the step and dir swapped. You could movement but 
very erratic in one direction. Those drives are pretty good and 
reliable. Signals must be active low. Strap all the + terminals to 5v 
and then pull low with your BOB.


On 2013/09/22 09:03 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
 Got the drives and motors from Wantai Motor (same company as Longs Motor). 
 Same Chinese stuff as a dozen others sell.
 Their drives are marked DQ860MA.

 The signal connectors have + and - for pulse, direction, and enable. All the 
 - terminals connect together to a ground for each motor output on the BOB I'm 
 using. On the BOB that came with the set all the - lines from all the drives 
 were supposed to connect to a single terminal. (That looked like a sure fire 
 way for a short or power spike to fry everything.)

 The other connections are ground an +VDC for power and A+ A- B+ B- for the 
 motor coils. There's also 8 switches. One enables/disables idle current 
 reduction. The others set the current from 2.8/2.0 peak/RMS to 7.8/5.6 and 
 the pulse/rev from 400 to 51200.

 Couldn't get any movement except sporadic jerking until I set the switches 
 for 400 and entered 200 in stepconf.

 If I check the invert box on the direction pin it changes which button makes 
 the motor spin, but it will only spin counterclockwise.

 Right now I just want to get them to spin in both directions so I know the 
 hardware is good, ought to be, it's all new. Full configuration can wait 
 until the mill is ready to have the motors installed. (I had three 4 on 75mm 
 to NEMA34 adapter plates made by Augustine Machine. $62 something shipped.)

 I checked again and just a little gentle rotation around the shaft axis while 
 running makes it stop. So does picking it straight up in line with the shaft 
 axis. That's the issue that's really bugging me because that's the motion the 
 X axis motor is going to get a lot of.

 Have to get it to run both directions to see if it's some setup fault causing 
 the motion sickness. I know other people are using this BOB and these drives 
 or very similar ones with LinuxCNC. Would be nice if they'd share their 
 stepconf files.

 When/if this works I'll share mine *and* the wiring details showing exactly 
 what connects where. Whomever the actual manufacturer of the motors is, 
 they've changed the wire colors to red, green, blue, yellow on the 4 wire 
 ones but nobody has documentation showing those colors. Holding wires 
 together shows the coils are red/green and blue/yellow.

 On Sat, 9/21/13, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:

   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They 
 don't like to be moved while running.
   To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
   Date: Saturday, September 21, 2013, 11:10 PM
   
   2013/9/22 Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com
   
With my new BOB (HY-JK02-M) I've managed to get a motor
   to run and run
smoothly, but only in one direction. (Once I set the
   parallel port pins to
match the docs settings for Mach3.) I tried swapping
   the wires on one
phase, ran quite rough and still only one direction so
   I swapped them back.
I've checked the connection tightness multiple times on
   everything, all
screwed down tight.
   
   
   Some drives have step/dir and cw/ccw modes, check that.
   
   
That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that
   when the motor is
running if I pick it up or move it, it stops running.
   Doesn't matter if
it's laying down or standing on its back end, if it's
   picked straight up or
allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and
   squeals. Tried two
of the three, both do the same thing.
   
   
   That's weird. Which stepper drives do you use?
   
   
That is going to be a bit useless on a mill table where
   the X-axis motor
is going to be moving back and forth.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 1:49 AM
 
 It sounds like you have the step and
 dir swapped. You could movement but 
 very erratic in one direction. Those drives are pretty good
 and reliable. Signals must be active low. Strap all the +
 terminals to 5v and then pull low with your BOB.
 
---

Here's a link to the BOB manual. 
http://www.tecnoflexo.com.br/site/fotos/download/17/17.pdf Scroll down to the 
picture, X axis is the upper right connector, terminals left to right are 
enable, step, direction and ground. Same for the other four axes.

I unplugged the enable connector from the drive, left the wires connected to 
the plug because I jumpered all the - lines together at the drive and the - 
enable line is the one I connected to the ground terminal for X axis. This is 
the bit of useful info I wasn't able to find anywhere for this BOB. Don't use 
the enable line because it doesn't effing work right! The LED for each axis is 
nice, lets you know that something should be happening.

NOW the motor will go both directions. Still has the motion sickness. When 
doing the test run there seems to be a bit of a pulsing harmonic in the motor. 
Not rough and loud like when one coil is wired backwards but it vibrates 
everything on the table.

I bought 30 feet of 18 gauge four conductor cable to use for the control lines 
and for the power wires to the motors. For the test I have the short motor 
wires connected directly to the drive and a foot of the four conductor cable 
from the BOB to the drive. Interference amongst the control wires? Will it be a 
problem for the power wires? I also got 10 feet of two conductor cable to use 
for DC from the 60 volt power supplies to the drives.

Guess I'll have to mount one to the table and see if moving axially while 
firmly constrained radially will keep it working. Might be something to do with 
the latency that gets over 15,000? That test has showed it over 20,000 at 
times. I have another couple of PCs I can try to see if they have lower 
latency. Pentium 4 boxes faster than the 1ghz P3 I'm testing with.

Need to find or make some 14mm female to 5/8 male shaft adapter/extenders to 
mount the motor pulleys first before I can try actually driving the table.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

What did you set the drive steps and current to? Dont go more than 2000 
to start with and then see if you need more resolution. OOh and dont use 
the Enable on the drive, it does not work :)

On 2013/09/22 10:34 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
 On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They 
 don't like to be moved while running.
   To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
   Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 1:49 AM
   
   It sounds like you have the step and
   dir swapped. You could movement but
   very erratic in one direction. Those drives are pretty good
   and reliable. Signals must be active low. Strap all the +
   terminals to 5v and then pull low with your BOB.
   
 ---

 Here's a link to the BOB manual. 
 http://www.tecnoflexo.com.br/site/fotos/download/17/17.pdf Scroll down to the 
 picture, X axis is the upper right connector, terminals left to right are 
 enable, step, direction and ground. Same for the other four axes.

 I unplugged the enable connector from the drive, left the wires connected to 
 the plug because I jumpered all the - lines together at the drive and the - 
 enable line is the one I connected to the ground terminal for X axis. This is 
 the bit of useful info I wasn't able to find anywhere for this BOB. Don't 
 use the enable line because it doesn't effing work right! The LED for each 
 axis is nice, lets you know that something should be happening.

 NOW the motor will go both directions. Still has the motion sickness. When 
 doing the test run there seems to be a bit of a pulsing harmonic in the 
 motor. Not rough and loud like when one coil is wired backwards but it 
 vibrates everything on the table.

 I bought 30 feet of 18 gauge four conductor cable to use for the control 
 lines and for the power wires to the motors. For the test I have the short 
 motor wires connected directly to the drive and a foot of the four conductor 
 cable from the BOB to the drive. Interference amongst the control wires? Will 
 it be a problem for the power wires? I also got 10 feet of two conductor 
 cable to use for DC from the 60 volt power supplies to the drives.

 Guess I'll have to mount one to the table and see if moving axially while 
 firmly constrained radially will keep it working. Might be something to do 
 with the latency that gets over 15,000? That test has showed it over 20,000 
 at times. I have another couple of PCs I can try to see if they have lower 
 latency. Pentium 4 boxes faster than the 1ghz P3 I'm testing with.

 Need to find or make some 14mm female to 5/8 male shaft adapter/extenders to 
 mount the motor pulleys first before I can try actually driving the table.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

I looked at the spec sheet for the BOB. They use a weird set of pins for 
the step and dir signals. I had a customer two weeks ago with a similar 
setup and had the same symptoms. We could not get the axis to step 
correctly when using control line pins (14, 15 ,16, 17, 1)for step and 
direction. I only got the thing to work when I swapped functions out 
until I had all the step and dir signals driven by the 8 bidirectional 
I/O lines (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9).
I am not saying that this is your problem, I am saying that my 
experience with this kind of pin configuration has not been very happy. 
It is certainly not conventional.
Note: Experience determines convention.


On 2013/09/22 10:34 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
 On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They 
 don't like to be moved while running.
   To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
   Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 1:49 AM
   
   It sounds like you have the step and
   dir swapped. You could movement but
   very erratic in one direction. Those drives are pretty good
   and reliable. Signals must be active low. Strap all the +
   terminals to 5v and then pull low with your BOB.
   
 ---

 Here's a link to the BOB manual. 
 http://www.tecnoflexo.com.br/site/fotos/download/17/17.pdf Scroll down to the 
 picture, X axis is the upper right connector, terminals left to right are 
 enable, step, direction and ground. Same for the other four axes.

 I unplugged the enable connector from the drive, left the wires connected to 
 the plug because I jumpered all the - lines together at the drive and the - 
 enable line is the one I connected to the ground terminal for X axis. This is 
 the bit of useful info I wasn't able to find anywhere for this BOB. Don't 
 use the enable line because it doesn't effing work right! The LED for each 
 axis is nice, lets you know that something should be happening.

 NOW the motor will go both directions. Still has the motion sickness. When 
 doing the test run there seems to be a bit of a pulsing harmonic in the 
 motor. Not rough and loud like when one coil is wired backwards but it 
 vibrates everything on the table.

 I bought 30 feet of 18 gauge four conductor cable to use for the control 
 lines and for the power wires to the motors. For the test I have the short 
 motor wires connected directly to the drive and a foot of the four conductor 
 cable from the BOB to the drive. Interference amongst the control wires? Will 
 it be a problem for the power wires? I also got 10 feet of two conductor 
 cable to use for DC from the 60 volt power supplies to the drives.

 Guess I'll have to mount one to the table and see if moving axially while 
 firmly constrained radially will keep it working. Might be something to do 
 with the latency that gets over 15,000? That test has showed it over 20,000 
 at times. I have another couple of PCs I can try to see if they have lower 
 latency. Pentium 4 boxes faster than the 1ghz P3 I'm testing with.

 Need to find or make some 14mm female to 5/8 male shaft adapter/extenders to 
 mount the motor pulleys first before I can try actually driving the table.

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Tel: +27 12 743 6064
Fax: +27 86 551 8029
Skype: marius_d.liebenberg



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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 2:56 AM
 
 What did you set the drive steps and
 current to? Dont go more than 2000 
 to start with and then see if you need more resolution. OOh
 and dont use the Enable on the drive, it does not work :)
 

The motors are labeled 5.6 amps, no indication if that's peak or RMS so I set 
the drives to 7.8/5.6 peak/RMS. It's the only setting with either one exactly 
5.6.

The lowest step setting on them is 400, which is half stepping these 200 
step/rev motors. Didn't get any motion except random jerks until I set the 
drives to 400 and 200 in stepconf. Should I try a higher setting on the drive 
and leave it at 200 in stepconf?

Belt reduction on the mill is 1.5:1 with 14 teeth on the motors and 21 on the 
ballscrew pulleys. Haven't counted the thread per inch on the screws, or if 
they're single or multiple lead.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Andrew]

2013/9/22 Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com

 On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They
 don't like to be moved while running.
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 2:56 AM

  What did you set the drive steps and
  current to? Dont go more than 2000
  to start with and then see if you need more resolution. OOh
  and dont use the Enable on the drive, it does not work :)

 
 The motors are labeled 5.6 amps, no indication if that's peak or RMS so I
 set the drives to 7.8/5.6 peak/RMS. It's the only setting with either one
 exactly 5.6.

 The lowest step setting on them is 400, which is half stepping these 200
 step/rev motors. Didn't get any motion except random jerks until I set the
 drives to 400 and 200 in stepconf. Should I try a higher setting on the
 drive and leave it at 200 in stepconf?


Did you try inverting step pin?



 Belt reduction on the mill is 1.5:1 with 14 teeth on the motors and 21 on
 the ballscrew pulleys. Haven't counted the thread per inch on the screws,
 or if they're single or multiple lead.


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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

There seem to be several issues here. This is the way to go about with a 
new setup:-

Start the steps at 400 on the drive
Set the Step per unit at 200 in Mach
Set the velocity to about one third on the slider in mach
Set the Acceleration to about one third on the slider in Mach.
Apply at least 36v - 80v supply to the drives on the VM pins. Anything 
less than 24v will deliver nothing.

These setting will be corrected as soon as you are in a position to 
calibrate the machine so don't worry to much about them now. If you 
can't get the motors to turn with these setting then something else is 
wrong.

If the above does not produce results, I would think about the pins that 
are used (not normal in this case)



On 2013/09/22 11:41 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
 On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They 
 don't like to be moved while running.
   To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
   Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 2:56 AM
   
   What did you set the drive steps and
   current to? Dont go more than 2000
   to start with and then see if you need more resolution. OOh
   and dont use the Enable on the drive, it does not work :)
   
 
 The motors are labeled 5.6 amps, no indication if that's peak or RMS so I set 
 the drives to 7.8/5.6 peak/RMS. It's the only setting with either one exactly 
 5.6.

 The lowest step setting on them is 400, which is half stepping these 200 
 step/rev motors. Didn't get any motion except random jerks until I set the 
 drives to 400 and 200 in stepconf. Should I try a higher setting on the drive 
 and leave it at 200 in stepconf?

 Belt reduction on the mill is 1.5:1 with 14 teeth on the motors and 21 on the 
 ballscrew pulleys. Haven't counted the thread per inch on the screws, or if 
 they're single or multiple lead.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Belli Button]

Ahem, language please...
This is the LCNC forum.


Set the velocity to about one third on the slider in mach Set the
Acceleration to about one third on the slider in MACH.
Apply at least 36v - 80v supply to the drives on the VM pins. Anything less
than 24v will deliver nothing.

These setting will be corrected as soon as you are in a position to
calibrate the machine so don't worry to much about them now. If you can't
get the motors to turn with these setting then something else is wrong.

If the above does not produce results, I would think about the pins that are
used (not normal in this case)





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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

Take note, he refered to Mach settings so I thought that might give good 
indication. Someone with a good grasp will need only half a word. :) 
(you got bugger all to do again I see)

On 2013/09/22 12:27 PM, Belli Button wrote:
 Ahem, language please...
 This is the LCNC forum.


 Set the velocity to about one third on the slider in mach Set the
 Acceleration to about one third on the slider in MACH.
 Apply at least 36v - 80v supply to the drives on the VM pins. Anything less
 than 24v will deliver nothing.

 These setting will be corrected as soon as you are in a position to
 calibrate the machine so don't worry to much about them now. If you can't
 get the motors to turn with these setting then something else is wrong.

 If the above does not produce results, I would think about the pins that are
 used (not normal in this case)





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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[jeremy youngs]

the 860 driver steps on rise its been a year since i set mine up and i dont
have my ini file right now but i think i had to invert the pulse pins to
resolve this concern i have a very busy day today , if i am able to get
back early today i will copy and paste it for you also i had to strap the
negative pins to the pulse direction and the enable works when you give it
a ground plane reference. because they step on rise they cannot work just
floating from ground. the documentation sucks and does not just tell you to
do this . I had to closely evaluate  powerflow in this setup with my only
clue being that somewhere in the docs it said that it steps on rise but the
chinglish did not just say this i had to interpret it :)  . also be weary
of your pulse times these drives take a pretty slow pulse time . if i had a
bit more time i would get all of this for you , sorry i cant right now , i
will take a moment soon and post what i have to the wiki in the section on
drives etc

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On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Marius Liebenberg
mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote:

 Take note, he refered to Mach settings so I thought that might give good
 indication. Someone with a good grasp will need only half a word. :)
 (you got bugger all to do again I see)

 On 2013/09/22 12:27 PM, Belli Button wrote:
  Ahem, language please...
  This is the LCNC forum.
 
 
  Set the velocity to about one third on the slider in mach Set the
  Acceleration to about one third on the slider in MACH.
  Apply at least 36v - 80v supply to the drives on the VM pins. Anything
 less
  than 24v will deliver nothing.
 
  These setting will be corrected as soon as you are in a position to
  calibrate the machine so don't worry to much about them now. If you can't
  get the motors to turn with these setting then something else is wrong.
 
  If the above does not produce results, I would think about the pins that
 are
  used (not normal in this case)
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Marius Liebenberg]

I attached a HAL and INI file that used these drives with steppers.


On 2013/09/22 06:54 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

With my new BOB (HY-JK02-M) I've managed to get a motor to run and run 
smoothly, but only in one direction. (Once I set the parallel port pins to 
match the docs settings for Mach3.) I tried swapping the wires on one phase, 
ran quite rough and still only one direction so I swapped them back. I've 
checked the connection tightness multiple times on everything, all screwed down 
tight.

That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that when the motor is running 
if I pick it up or move it, it stops running. Doesn't matter if it's laying 
down or standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or allowed to 
rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and squeals. Tried two of the three, 
both do the same thing.

That is going to be a bit useless on a mill table where the X-axis motor is 
going to be moving back and forth.

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# Edited By MDL
# If you make changes to this file, they will be
# overwritten when you run stepconf again
loadusr -W /usr/bin/usbio /dev/ttyACM0 2
#loadusr -W /usr/bin/usbio /dev/ttyACM0 2

loadusr -W paramsaver f=10 s=0 b=0 filename=mc200 onstart=0 onexit=0

#loadusr -W paramvoltage
#loadusr -W redisclient

#loadrt trivkins
#loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT base_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD 
servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES
#loadrt probe_parport
##loadrt hal_parport cfg=0x378 out 0x1020 out 
#loadrt hal_parport cfg=0x2008 out  

#setp parport.0.reset-time 1000
#loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0 ctrl_type=p,p,p
#addf parport.0.read base-thread


#addf stepgen.make-pulses base-thread
#addf parport.0.write base-thread
#addf parport.0.reset base-thread

#addf stepgen.capture-position servo-thread
#addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
#addf motion-controller servo-thread
#addf stepgen.update-freq servo-thread

#loadrt pwmgen output_type=1
#addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
#addf pwmgen.update servo-thread

loadrt trivkins
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT base_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD 
servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES
loadrt probe_parport
loadrt hal_parport cfg=0x2008 out  
setp parport.0.reset-time 1000
loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
loadrt abs count=1

addf parport.0.read base-thread
addf stepgen.make-pulses base-thread
addf parport.0.write base-thread
addf parport.0.reset base-thread

addf stepgen.capture-position servo-thread
addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
addf motion-controller servo-thread
addf stepgen.update-freq servo-thread
addf abs.0 servo-thread


# -- Load the THC Controller
loadrt thcud
addf thcud servo-thread

loadrt timedelay count=2
addf timedelay.0 servo-thread
addf timedelay.1 servo-thread
setp timedelay.1.off-delay 0 

loadrt scale count=1
addf scale.0 servo-thread

# -- Load the THC hardware interface
loadrt thc200
#addf thc200 servo-thread
addf thc200 servo-thread


loadrt and2 count=4
loadrt or2 count=1
loadrt toggle count=1
loadrt toggle2nist count=2

addf and2.0 servo-thread
addf and2.1 servo-thread
addf and2.2 servo-thread
addf and2.3 servo-thread
addf or2.0 servo-thread
addf toggle.0 servo-thread
addf toggle2nist.0 servo-thread

loadrt not
addf not.0 servo-thread

loadrt edge count=2
addf edge.0 servo-thread
addf edge.1 servo-thread
setp edge.0.in-edge 0  #rising edge
setp edge.0.out-width-ns 20
setp edge.1.in-edge 1 #falling edge
setp edge.1.out-width-ns 20



# move this to the right places
#net home-x = parport.0.pin-11-in
#net home-y = parport.0.pin-12-in
#net home-z = parport.0.pin-13-in
#net probe-in = parport.0.pin-14-in

net both-home-x = parport.0.pin-13-in-not
net both-home-y = parport.0.pin-11-in
net both-home-z = parport.0.pin-12-in-not


#*
#MC2000 AXIS PINOUT  *
#*

# X AXIS *
#net xenable = parport.0.pin-01-out
setp parport.0.pin-01-out-invert 1

setp parport.0.pin-06-out-reset 1
setp parport.0.pin-08-out-reset 1
net xstep = 

Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Claude Froidevaux]

Le 22.09.2013 06:54, Gregg Eshelman a écrit :
 That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that when the motor is 
 running if I pick it up or move it, it stops running. Doesn't matter if it's 
 laying down or standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or 
 allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and squeals. Tried two of 
 the three, both do the same thing.

That let me thing you may have miss-connect the motor. 1 phase must be 
connected between A+ and A- (you shall measure low impedance on motor 
motor side). I have got theses strange result once when I wired a phase 
between A and B output of the driver.

Claude


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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

The docs shipped with the kit only reference Mach. Need to pick useful info 
from that to setup LCNC. Would be nice if someone else has already setup LCNC 
with this BOB and these generic chinese drivers so I can nick their stepconf 
then modify as needed for the drive ratio of my mill. ;-)

On Sun, 9/22/13, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 5:19 AM
 
 Take note, he refered to Mach
 settings so I thought that might give good 
 indication. Someone with a good grasp will need only half a
 word. :) 
 (you got bugger all to do again I see)
 
 On 2013/09/22 12:27 PM, Belli Button wrote:
  Ahem, language please...
  This is the LCNC forum.
 
 
  Set the velocity to about one third on the slider in
 mach Set the
  Acceleration to about one third on the slider in MACH.
  Apply at least 36v - 80v supply to the drives on the VM
 pins. Anything less
  than 24v will deliver nothing.
 
  These setting will be corrected as soon as you are in a
 position to
  calibrate the machine so don't worry to much about them
 now. If you can't
  get the motors to turn with these setting then
 something else is wrong.
 
  If the above does not produce results, I would think
 about the pins that are
  used (not normal in this case)

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Claude Froidevaux men...@bluewin.ch wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 6:20 AM
 
 
 Le 22.09.2013 06:54, Gregg Eshelman a écrit :
  That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that
 when the motor is running if I pick it up or move it, it
 stops running. Doesn't matter if it's laying down or
 standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or
 allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and
 squeals. Tried two of the three, both do the same thing.
 
 That let me thing you may have miss-connect the motor. 1
 phase must be 
 connected between A+ and A- (you shall measure low impedance
 on motor 
 motor side). I have got theses strange result once when I
 wired a phase 
 between A and B output of the driver.
 
 Claude
 
I've checked to make sure one coil is connected to a+ and a- and the other to 
b+ and b- Disconnecting the enable line allows it to run both directions 
instead of just counterclockwise. Still has a low and slow pulsing harmonic 
vibration. I tried reversing one coil and that made it worse so I switched it 
back. I've also swapped pair A and B locations. Always has this vibration. I 
also disconnected both ends of the enable wire and moved the ground to dir - 
with a jumper to pul -

Here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL9tzYGSVhYfeature=youtu.be

Have to get rid of that vibration and the sensitivity to motion. They're over 
1,000 oz-in torque, should be plenty of rotor inertia that one could stick the 
motor on the end of a baseball bat and wave it around without bothering it.

That's something I've noticed in every Youtube video of people showing stepper 
motors running. Nobody ever picks up or otherwise moves them except for when 
they're firmly mounted to something like the head on an X-Y gantry.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[andy pugh]

On 22 September 2013 22:50, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:

 That's something I've noticed in every Youtube video of people showing 
 stepper motors running. Nobody ever picks up or otherwise moves them except 
 for when they're firmly mounted to something like the head on an X-Y gantry.

Moving the motor should have absolutely no effect.

Have you tried inverting the step pulses (in Stepconf). The drives/BoB
might need active-low.

The advice earlier about connecting the + terminal of each drive input
pin to +5V and connecting the BoB inputs to the - terminal on the
drives was, I think, good. That is how my drives need to be wired.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 22 September 2013 18:52:16 Gregg Eshelman did opine:

 On Sun, 9/22/13, Claude Froidevaux men...@bluewin.ch wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They
 don't like to be moved while running. To: Enhanced Machine Controller
 (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sunday, September 22,
 2013, 6:20 AM
 
  Le 22.09.2013 06:54, Gregg Eshelman a écrit :
   That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that
 
  when the motor is running if I pick it up or move it, it
  stops running. Doesn't matter if it's laying down or
  standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or
  allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and
  squeals. Tried two of the three, both do the same thing.
 
  That let me thing you may have miss-connect the motor. 1
  phase must be
  connected between A+ and A- (you shall measure low impedance
  on motor
  motor side). I have got theses strange result once when I
  wired a phase
  between A and B output of the driver.
 
  Claude
 
 I've checked to make sure one coil is connected to a+ and a- and the
 other to b+ and b- Disconnecting the enable line allows it to run both
 directions instead of just counterclockwise. Still has a low and slow
 pulsing harmonic vibration. I tried reversing one coil and that made it
 worse so I switched it back. I've also swapped pair A and B locations.
 Always has this vibration. I also disconnected both ends of the enable
 wire and moved the ground to dir - with a jumper to pul -
 
 Here's a video
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL9tzYGSVhYfeature=youtu.be
 
 Have to get rid of that vibration and the sensitivity to motion. They're
 over 1,000 oz-in torque, should be plenty of rotor inertia that one
 could stick the motor on the end of a baseball bat and wave it around
 without bothering it.
 
 That's something I've noticed in every Youtube video of people showing
 stepper motors running. Nobody ever picks up or otherwise moves them
 except for when they're firmly mounted to something like the head on an
 X-Y gantry.
 
Generally that is because the motors 'step' is pretty violent, so it has to 
be held down or bolted down it you don't want it to walk off the table.

1. Which ever way it runs both directions is probably the correct enable 
line status.  I suspect you'll find lots more torque available then, if 
thats the problem.  Also, to this old CET, the fact that its running one 
direction only tells me that BOB hasn't enough output muscle to drive it 
solidly off.  Cut your loses, its new, better BOB time in that event.

2. Just in case the optos in those drivers really are slow, set the parport 
reset time up to 1 ns.  Same for dir setup and dir hold, eg for 
testing, make it longer than any sane driver will ever need.  All you'll 
lose is top speed but that will at least prove it works.

3.  What are you using for motor power?  I have seen switch mode supplies 
that, because the driver recirculates current back into the supply in the 
course of the drivers current regulation, which can drive a poorly designed 
switching supply out of its alleged mind, so its pulsing on  off.

4. An oscilloscope to see whats going on can be very enlightening.  But it 
needs to be a decent one, most hobbiest scopes are toys that belong in the 
bin at the curb.  It must have calibrated gain down to DC, and to really 
look at these signals, will need good response to at least 35 mhz, 100 mhz 
is even better, as is dual trace.

5. BOB's can be funny at times.  The one I have used 2 of now, is the C1G 
from cnc4pc, which can source or sink 24 milli-amps on any output, driving 
it to within 50 millivolts of which ever rail its supposed to be at.  I am 
driving 6 of the 2M542 drivers and have never had to invert or otherwise 
play with a signal to make it work, it just does.  One of its big 
advantages is that every input and every output has an led on it, so you 
can instantly determine the signals state.  And they are _bright_, see them 
plumb across the shop.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't 
like to be moved while running.
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 4:05 PM
 
 On 22 September 2013 22:50, Gregg
 Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
  That's something I've noticed in every Youtube video of
 people showing stepper motors running. Nobody ever picks up
 or otherwise moves them except for when they're firmly
 mounted to something like the head on an X-Y gantry.
 
 Moving the motor should have absolutely no effect.
 
*Should not isn't keeping this setup from not working properly.

 Have you tried inverting the step pulses (in Stepconf). The
 drives/BoB might need active-low.
 
*Yup. Still has the pulsing vibration. Change the step time? I tried upping the 
microstepping to 800 on the drive. No change, just slower, still stops spinning 
if I allow the motor to move around.

 The advice earlier about connecting the + terminal of each
 drive input pin to +5V and connecting the BoB inputs to the - terminal
 on the drives was, I think, good. That is how my drives need to be wired.

*Tried swapping the + and - and it doesn't work. This BOB appears to work 
positive output only, with a separate ground for each axis. But wait, it gets 
weirder. I switched the wires back to + and tried it again with the driver set 
to 800 steps. Now I can twist and wave the motor all about and it *doesn't 
stop*.
Progress! But it still has that pulsating vibration. I'm thinking the seller's 
claims about smoothness are much exaggerated.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 1. Which ever way it runs both directions is probably the
 correct enable line status.
 
*That would be completely disconnected and unused.
 
 3.  What are you using for motor power?

*The 60 volt DC switching supply that came with the kit. (Got three of them.) I 
used a DMM and tweaked the pot to set it it exactly 60 volts. Out of the box it 
was 60.9.
 
 4. An oscilloscope to see whats going on can be very enlightening.
 
*Don't have one.

 5. BOB's can be funny at times.

*There's a lot of cheap ones out there. I'd like to get one that has completely 
separate connections for every wire to everything but those extra terminal 
blocks add $$. I'll very likely upgrade the BOB to one from Mesa + one of their 
port boards. Another $200

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 22 September 2013 19:57:40 Gregg Eshelman did opine:

 On Sun, 9/22/13, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 
  1. Which ever way it runs both directions is probably the
  correct enable line status.
 
 *That would be completely disconnected and unused.
 
  3.  What are you using for motor power?
 
 *The 60 volt DC switching supply that came with the kit. (Got three of
 them.) I used a DMM and tweaked the pot to set it it exactly 60 volts.
 Out of the box it was 60.9.

But is it still 60 when the motor is running?  A DVM may not give 
meaningful readings, so put a night light bulb on it  see if it flickers 
when the motor is running.  It should not.

  4. An oscilloscope to see whats going on can be very enlightening.
 
 *Don't have one.

Ebay.com.  I've had one of these for about 20 years.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-V-1065A-Dual-Trace-2-Channel-100-MHz-
Oscilloscope-800101145-/360741833195?pt=BI_Oscilloscopeshash=item53fde389eb

Its been on enough small aircraft that I've had to slip the case off  
tighten all the frame assembly screws, but it is still in decent 
calibration.  No probes, but Jameco sells a good, 200 mhz rated switchable 
1x/10x for about a $20 bill each.  And no manual.  I don't need one as I've 
had a scope probe in one hand since 1951, but you might need some basic 
instruction.  There are all sorts of tektronix scopes on ebay, some pretty 
cheap.  Run, don't walk for the nearest exit, they will be out of 
calibration, and because of custom parts values drift over anything past 5 
years, and will NOT be calibratable ever again.

 
  5. BOB's can be funny at times.
 
 *There's a lot of cheap ones out there. I'd like to get one that has
 completely separate connections for every wire to everything but those
 extra terminal blocks add $$. I'll very likely upgrade the BOB to one
 from Mesa + one of their port boards. Another $200
 
Not for a cnc4pc C1G.
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33products_id=49
$41.60 USD today.
 
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Cheers, Gene
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[Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Gregg Eshelman]

With my new BOB (HY-JK02-M) I've managed to get a motor to run and run 
smoothly, but only in one direction. (Once I set the parallel port pins to 
match the docs settings for Mach3.) I tried swapping the wires on one phase, 
ran quite rough and still only one direction so I swapped them back. I've 
checked the connection tightness multiple times on everything, all screwed down 
tight.

That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that when the motor is running 
if I pick it up or move it, it stops running. Doesn't matter if it's laying 
down or standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or allowed to 
rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and squeals. Tried two of the three, 
both do the same thing.

That is going to be a bit useless on a mill table where the X-axis motor is 
going to be moving back and forth.

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Re: [Emc-users] Very weird thing with my stepper motors. They don't like to be moved while running.

[Andrew]

2013/9/22 Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com

 With my new BOB (HY-JK02-M) I've managed to get a motor to run and run
 smoothly, but only in one direction. (Once I set the parallel port pins to
 match the docs settings for Mach3.) I tried swapping the wires on one
 phase, ran quite rough and still only one direction so I swapped them back.
 I've checked the connection tightness multiple times on everything, all
 screwed down tight.


Some drives have step/dir and cw/ccw modes, check that.


 That's not the weird thing. What is effed up is that when the motor is
 running if I pick it up or move it, it stops running. Doesn't matter if
 it's laying down or standing on its back end, if it's picked straight up or
 allowed to rotate around its shaft axis it locks up and squeals. Tried two
 of the three, both do the same thing.


That's weird. Which stepper drives do you use?


 That is going to be a bit useless on a mill table where the X-axis motor
 is going to be moving back and forth.

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