Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 January 2020 12:13:47 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 10 January 2020 06:17:01 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> > I bought four 16 gig ADATA USB 3 flash drives on a really good sale
> > from Newegg. Well, their write speeds were horrible, slower than
> > most USB 2.0 flash drives. One by one they all failed. Fortunately
> > ADATA has an unlimited lifetime replacement policy on their flash
> > drives and RAM products. The replacements have much faster speed,
> > haven't failed yet, and the next to last one they replaced with a 32
> > gig. The 4th one took longer to die, got replaced with another 16
> > gig. Must have been sold out of 16 gig when they sent me the 32 gig.
>
> Because of the wear leveling, I have always over provisioned the SSD's
> so my first buys were the 40GB versions, zero failures so far.
>
> I bought my first SSD's when newegg was peddling 40GB ADATA's for
> around $35. One of them was put into the Dell running my G0704 at
> least 2 years ago, slow writes only if the write was over a gig in one
> gulp.  Give it 10 minutes to do its thing and the speed was back to
> sata-ii reads and 600mhz for small writes.  Lots of re-writes as I
> changed the interface and added more gingerbread to the gui since. 
> Still going like spinning rust but a lot faster.
>
> Those I've put on usb adapters have been hard on the adapters, but
> when the adapter fails, a fresh cable/adapter has always found a good
> drive with all data intact.
>
> I've some more of the 240GB ADATA's, enough to put one in every
> machine, but with my heart attack, the missus's further deterioration,
> etc, progress there has been slow.
>
> Weather is just above 63F today, so I'll probably drag out my cutoff
> saw and work on making a hanger for a 400 lb electric hoist to lift
> the BS-1 on and off the G0704's table.  I'm hopeing the G0704 has the
> moxie to move that extra 150 lbs w/o changing to bigger nema-34 motors
> and drilling everything for 1 shot lube.  The XY motors are only
> nema-23's at 470 oz/in now.  Or hang and wire up a <$40 ups, 650WA, to
> the rpi4 running the Sheldon. I'm not really relishing cutting and
> welding with a mig in a 20 mph breeze. You can't keep flood ga$ on the
> work when its blowing that hard.  Sigh...
>
But the wind of 20+ mph they forecast never arrived, just a touch of 
rain. But my back didn't feel like wrestling steel and the cutoff saw, 
so I installed a small ups to keep the pi up while the generator is 
starting. A $35 CyberPower refurb. Installed a hand built nut so I could 
watch it. I've got to chuckle a bit though, it can't see the pi as a 
load, reporting load as 0. But it should hold up the pi plenty long 
enough till power comes back on even if the generator fails. Unless its 
down for 3 or 4 days. That could and has happened in the last decade, 
one outage was 11 days! Those of us with generators and fuel to run them 
had drop cords strung to most of the neighborhood fridges. I had and 
still have a 6.5kw, and ran about 30 gallons of gas thru it that time. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 January 2020 06:17:01 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> I bought four 16 gig ADATA USB 3 flash drives on a really good sale
> from Newegg. Well, their write speeds were horrible, slower than most
> USB 2.0 flash drives. One by one they all failed. Fortunately ADATA
> has an unlimited lifetime replacement policy on their flash drives and
> RAM products. The replacements have much faster speed, haven't failed
> yet, and the next to last one they replaced with a 32 gig. The 4th one
> took longer to die, got replaced with another 16 gig. Must have been
> sold out of 16 gig when they sent me the 32 gig.
>
Because of the wear leveling, I have always over provisioned the SSD's so 
my first buys were the 40GB versions, zero failures so far.

I bought my first SSD's when newegg was peddling 40GB ADATA's for around 
$35. One of them was put into the Dell running my G0704 at least 2 years 
ago, slow writes only if the write was over a gig in one gulp.  Give it 
10 minutes to do its thing and the speed was back to sata-ii reads and 
600mhz for small writes.  Lots of re-writes as I changed the interface 
and added more gingerbread to the gui since.  Still going like spinning 
rust but a lot faster.

Those I've put on usb adapters have been hard on the adapters, but when 
the adapter fails, a fresh cable/adapter has always found a good drive 
with all data intact.

I've some more of the 240GB ADATA's, enough to put one in every machine, 
but with my heart attack, the missus's further deterioration, etc, 
progress there has been slow.

Weather is just above 63F today, so I'll probably drag out my cutoff saw 
and work on making a hanger for a 400 lb electric hoist to lift the BS-1 
on and off the G0704's table.  I'm hopeing the G0704 has the moxie to 
move that extra 150 lbs w/o changing to bigger nema-34 motors and 
drilling everything for 1 shot lube.  The XY motors are only nema-23's 
at 470 oz/in now.  Or hang and wire up a <$40 ups, 650WA, to the rpi4 
running the Sheldon. I'm not really relishing cutting and welding with a 
mig in a 20 mph breeze. You can't keep flood ga$ on the work when its 
blowing that hard.  Sigh...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I bought four 16 gig ADATA USB 3 flash drives on a really good sale from 
Newegg. Well, their write speeds were horrible, slower than most USB 2.0 flash 
drives. One by one they all failed. Fortunately ADATA has an unlimited lifetime 
replacement policy on their flash drives and RAM products. The replacements 
have much faster speed, haven't failed yet, and the next to last one they 
replaced with a 32 gig. The 4th one took longer to die, got replaced with 
another 16 gig. Must have been sold out of 16 gig when they sent me the 32 gig. 

On Thursday, January 9, 2020, 6:42:24 PM MST, Jon Elson 
 wrote:  
 
 On 01/09/2020 11:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three 240GB
> SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could use them
> as std drives on my pi's.
>
> All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
> around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
> ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.
>
> So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.
>
>
NewEgg sells a VAST array of computer products.  They really 
can't be responsible for
what comes out of China, or test things for a year to make 
sure they are reliable.
Yes, the CRAP coming out of China is deplorable, and thanks 
for the heads up on this
product.  I'd definitely avoid rosewill, but I can't blame 
NewEgg for carrying most of
what is manufactured.  
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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[R C]

the fact you sell a vast amount of products, build by others, is not an 
excuse for


lack of quality of what you sell.


BUT ...  not everything that technically/specs wise should work, will.


Technically an SATA drive, with a  USB<-->SATA converter would work

BUT for a example a laptop SATA/spindle drive would be so demanding on a 
PI board, it would "deprive"


the board of power  causing issues, even crash.  An SSD might just be 
borderline acceptable. 2-3W spikes


on a PI is A LOT.


Also, most stuff nowadays is built in China anyway, even high quality 
components. The application is what


one needs to take into consideration


Ron


(Oh btw   just to make sure,  I am not Chinese..  or affiliated etc etc...)





On 1/9/20 6:39 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 01/09/2020 11:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three 240GB
SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could use them
as std drives on my pi's.

All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.

So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.


NewEgg sells a VAST array of computer products.  They really can't be 
responsible for
what comes out of China, or test things for a year to make sure they 
are reliable.
Yes, the CRAP coming out of China is deplorable, and thanks for the 
heads up on this
product.  I'd definitely avoid rosewill, but I can't blame NewEgg for 
carrying most of

what is manufactured.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 January 2020 21:08:27 R C wrote:

> On 1/9/20 5:41 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 09 January 2020 19:13:56 R C wrote:
> >> if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network,
> >> you're switching
> >>
> >> between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same
> >> hardware/chipset). If you power the
> >
> > No wifi, its disabled.
>
> But are you using ethernet,  the wired connection?
>
Yes, for my inhouse net.  And its my understanding that usb stuff and all 
the other do no longer share common hdwe.

> >> drives through USB that is not a good thing. For modest amounts of
> >> data I just use a/the
> >
> > I have a 5 amp supply, and these adapters have no provision for
> > external power.  However, one should never forget that that, and a
> > couple bucks will get you a fresh cuppa most anyplace but Starbucks.
> > ;-)
>
> It's not about the power availability really,  the issue is it
> switching back and forth  between USB/network  in an ARM arch, there
> is no real way

>
> for switching priorities, buffering AND keep devices powered/running.
> When you use the network, the USB part gets ignored, almost shut off,
> and
>
> the other way around. ARM is more about streams, unlike interrupt
> things where "devices" keep being powered and given priority.
>
>
> So network IO might shut your disk off..  and then back on..   a lot. 
> an SSD uses between 1.5W-2.5W I believe, which in PI terms is a lot. 
> An SD card
>
> on the other hand just uses a tiny fraction of that and it can handle
> that,  like your phone and your camera, iPod etc etc
>
> >> SD card (the video/photo ones can handle a lot more writes than
> >> standard ones) or I use NFS
> >>
> >> when I need larger data sets).
> >>
> >>
> >> (I run a seismograph on a PI, it does data collection, and 24/7
> >> sends data to a database
> >>
> >> every 1-2 seconds and never had issues.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >> On 1/9/20 10:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three
> >>> 240GB SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I
> >>> could use them as std drives on my pi's.
> >>>
> >>> All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
> >>> around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
> >>> ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.
> >>>
> >>> So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 January 2020 20:39:50 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 01/09/2020 11:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three
> > 240GB SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could
> > use them as std drives on my pi's.
> >
> > All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
> > around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
> > ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.
> >
> > So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.
>
> NewEgg sells a VAST array of computer products.  They really
> can't be responsible for
> what comes out of China, or test things for a year to make
> sure they are reliable.
> Yes, the CRAP coming out of China is deplorable, and thanks
> for the heads up on this
> product.  I'd definitely avoid rosewill, but I can't blame
> NewEgg for carrying most of
> what is manufactured.
>
> Jon
>
I can't either Jon, but I can sure fault them for a snotty attitude that 
drives me to not care when I can get far more pleasant service from 
TigerDirect, with plenty of coms whose content actually contains a list 
of what you bought during that transaction. And shipping by usps in 3 
days or less.  Newegg? 5 to 8 days.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[R C]

On 1/9/20 5:41 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Thursday 09 January 2020 19:13:56 R C wrote:


if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network, you're
switching

between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same hardware/chipset).
If you power the


No wifi, its disabled.



But are you using ethernet,  the wired connection?





drives through USB that is not a good thing. For modest amounts of
data I just use a/the

I have a 5 amp supply, and these adapters have no provision for external
power.  However, one should never forget that that, and a couple bucks
will get you a fresh cuppa most anyplace but Starbucks. ;-)



It's not about the power availability really,  the issue is it switching 
back and forth  between USB/network  in an ARM arch, there is no real way


for switching priorities, buffering AND keep devices powered/running. 
When you use the network, the USB part gets ignored, almost shut off, and


the other way around. ARM is more about streams, unlike interrupt things 
where "devices" keep being powered and given priority.



So network IO might shut your disk off..  and then back on..   a lot.  
an SSD uses between 1.5W-2.5W I believe, which in PI terms is a lot.  An 
SD card


on the other hand just uses a tiny fraction of that and it can handle 
that,  like your phone and your camera, iPod etc etc






SD card (the video/photo ones can handle a lot more writes than
standard ones) or I use NFS

when I need larger data sets).


(I run a seismograph on a PI, it does data collection, and 24/7 sends
data to a database

every 1-2 seconds and never had issues.)



Ron

On 1/9/20 10:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three
240GB SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could
use them as std drives on my pi's.

All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.

So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.

Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[R C]

I don't know,  I don't have one yet, and haven't looked into it.

BUT ..  the board being low cost, low energy, and combining/multiplexing 
things, so I doubt it.


Don'tget me wrong, it is a pretty cool/awesome board for that price , 
especially for doing low level stuff.  BUT a bunch is piggy backed 
(USB/ETH/wifi,  etc)


also it is an ARM based "thing"  so things like interrupts and clocktick 
stuff is always an issue.



Ron

On 1/9/20 5:31 PM, Thaddeus Waldner wrote:



On Jan 9, 2020, at 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:

if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network, you're switching

between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same hardware/chipset).

Has this topology changed with the Pi4?


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Jon Elson]

On 01/09/2020 11:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three 240GB
SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could use them
as std drives on my pi's.

All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.

So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.


NewEgg sells a VAST array of computer products.  They really 
can't be responsible for
what comes out of China, or test things for a year to make 
sure they are reliable.
Yes, the CRAP coming out of China is deplorable, and thanks 
for the heads up on this
product.  I'd definitely avoid rosewill, but I can't blame 
NewEgg for carrying most of

what is manufactured.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 January 2020 19:31:49 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> > On Jan 9, 2020, at 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
> >
> > if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network,
> > you're switching
> >
> > between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same
> > hardware/chipset).
>
> Has this topology changed with the Pi4?
>
I believe it has, but double check the propaganda, my bible is just out 
of reach.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 January 2020 19:13:56 R C wrote:

> if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network, you're
> switching
>
> between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same hardware/chipset).
> If you power the
>
No wifi, its disabled.

> drives through USB that is not a good thing. For modest amounts of
> data I just use a/the

I have a 5 amp supply, and these adapters have no provision for external 
power.  However, one should never forget that that, and a couple bucks 
will get you a fresh cuppa most anyplace but Starbucks. ;-)

> SD card (the video/photo ones can handle a lot more writes than
> standard ones) or I use NFS
>
> when I need larger data sets).
>
>
> (I run a seismograph on a PI, it does data collection, and 24/7 sends
> data to a database
>
> every 1-2 seconds and never had issues.)
>
>
>
> Ron
>
> On 1/9/20 10:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three
> > 240GB SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could
> > use them as std drives on my pi's.
> >
> > All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
> > around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
> > ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.
> >
> > So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[Thaddeus Waldner]

> On Jan 9, 2020, at 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
> 
> if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network, you're 
> switching
> 
> between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same hardware/chipset). 

Has this topology changed with the Pi4?

> 
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Re: [Emc-users] A heads up on a product

[R C]

if you use USB connected drives on a Pi, and also the network, you're 
switching


between eth/wifi and USB "A LOT" (it uses the same hardware/chipset). If 
you power the


drives through USB that is not a good thing. For modest amounts of data 
I just use a/the


SD card (the video/photo ones can handle a lot more writes than standard 
ones) or I use NFS


when I need larger data sets).


(I run a seismograph on a PI, it does data collection, and 24/7 sends 
data to a database


every 1-2 seconds and never had issues.)



Ron



On 1/9/20 10:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Back in the middle of May 2019, I ordered, from newegg.com, three 240GB
SSD's and 3 rosewill usb-3.1 to sata adapter cables so I could use them
as std drives on my pi's.

All of the rosewell adapters have now died. Called newegg, got run
around, hit tigerdirect and had 4 startech's at about 5 bucks more
ordered in less that 5 minutes.  We'll see how they work.

So right now newegg and rosewill are bad kharma to me.

Cheers, Gene Heskett



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