Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[Brent Loschen]

On 6/27/2016 9:56 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley  wrote:
>> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use
>> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc
> That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even
> found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to
> be found?
I can can confirm that Fusion360 does support tabs.  Options exist for 
tab lengths, straight or "ramped" (triangular?) tabs, and either 
automatic (you specify the number of tabs) or manual placement.  I found 
the tab feature to be quite easy to use, especially compared to some of 
the actual 3d modeling capabilities - but that problem is mine alone, 
and not specific to the software!  I'm pretty sure I read that the CAM 
portion of F360 is standard HSMWorks, but I've not actually used that 
product.

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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[Chris Kelley]

Our router has a thick MDF spoil-board that material gets wood-screwed down
to. We had an old machine that had T-slots but they were never in the right
position or we never had enough hold-down clamps.

Our members/users are taught to either use enough screws so that warped
material is held flat before, during, and after cutting or to use material
that isn't warped.

For holding tabs, we simply use a flush-cut router bit on a manual router
table to clean them up very quickly with just as good of surface finish as
the CNC left.

To prevent the tabs breaking and tearing the parts while removing the parts
and skeleton from the table, we simply use a sharp wood chisel to cut the
tabs while still on the table. Then the parts can be removed separately and
without damage.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:33 PM,  wrote:

> I've worked with a number of CNC router users on a bunch of jobs.  I had
> to change my beliefs along the way, based on experience.
>
> Tabs are often a huge liability.  They are a lot of work to cut, leave a
> finish problem where they were cut off, and sometimes tear out the work
> when you move the sheet off the router.  Wood is often warped and the tabs
> may not render at all anyhow.  With some bits and materials, you just don't
> need tabs, the cut piece stays in place.
>
> Many skilled users don't do them.  Popped pieces can sometimes happen, but
> they can happen WITH tabs too if the sheet lifts and breaks them.  So
> there's no "tabs are the only proper way" rule to it.  There will always be
> a need to pause the machine, fix something which involves a move, and
> resume.
>
> I'll work on this "moveoff" component then.
>
> Danny
>
>  andy pugh  wrote:
> > On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley  wrote:
> > I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly
> use
> > holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc
>
> That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even
> found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to
> be found?
>
> However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job
> part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I
> recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a
> commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change
> chipped or worn tips mid-job.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[Rick Lair]

On 06/27/2016 11:56 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job
> part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I
> recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a
> commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change
> chipped or worn tips mid-job. 


And You would be correct Andy, I don't know if he did it specifically
for us, but we are the shop that Dewey wrote that component for.

As for the component itself, it works fairly well, it is more of an
incremental jog while program is paused, rather than a straight jog off
of what you are machining, takes a little getting used to but after you
get the hang of it, it works pretty good. The one major thing in regards
to the component is, is that it DOES NOT OBEY MACHINE SOFT LIMITS, so if
you are in the process of moving the axis with the component during a
feed-hold, you can park your machine on a hard limit over-travel very
easily, and this is stated in the component.

It is very easy to implement into a config, add the proper section to
the Applications section of the INI, then add the relevant sections to
each individual axis for the machine, and it is off to the races.

If you need any help, let me know.

Rick

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com



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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[dannym]

I've worked with a number of CNC router users on a bunch of jobs.  I had to 
change my beliefs along the way, based on experience.

Tabs are often a huge liability.  They are a lot of work to cut, leave a finish 
problem where they were cut off, and sometimes tear out the work when you move 
the sheet off the router.  Wood is often warped and the tabs may not render at 
all anyhow.  With some bits and materials, you just don't need tabs, the cut 
piece stays in place.  

Many skilled users don't do them.  Popped pieces can sometimes happen, but they 
can happen WITH tabs too if the sheet lifts and breaks them.  So there's no 
"tabs are the only proper way" rule to it.  There will always be a need to 
pause the machine, fix something which involves a move, and resume.

I'll work on this "moveoff" component then.  

Danny

 andy pugh  wrote: 
> On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley  wrote:
> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use
> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc

That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even
found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to
be found?

However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job
part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I
recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a
commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change
chipped or worn tips mid-job.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[Drew Rogge]

Andy,

They're in the "Tabs" item in the Geometry tab of the 2D Contour CAM operation. 
They may also be in other CAM operations but I haven't run into them yet.

Drew

On 6/27/16 8:56 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley  wrote:
>> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use
>> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc
> That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even
> found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to
> be found?
>
> However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job
> part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I
> recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a
> commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change
> chipped or worn tips mid-job.
>

-- 
Drew Rogge
d...@dasrogges.com

Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO


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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[andy pugh]

On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley  wrote:
> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use
> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc

That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even
found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to
be found?

However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job
part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I
recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a
commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change
chipped or worn tips mid-job.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[Chris Kelley]

I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use
holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc. such that there are never parts popping
free. Being a hobbyist or "one time/occasional user" is no excuse for poor
or dangerous technique.

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 6:40 PM, sam sokolik  wrote:

> take a look at the moveoff component.  It is a 'jog while paused' work
> around.  (it actually works pretty darn good)
>
> there are a few sample configs also
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/moveoff.html
>
> sam
>
> On 06/26/2016 05:36 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> > Recently discovered this:
> >
> > When paused, the axes can't be moved by the user.
> >
> > While that sounds like a safe protection at first, that's actually a
> > critical problem.  It is not uncommon to have to "fix" something
> > mid-run.  In a few cases I've seen the CNC router pop freed pieces out
> > and they land on the target of a plunge.  When that happens, the bit
> > plunged into it and you have an unbalanced chunk of wood free-spinning
> > on the bit.
> >
> >
> > The proper answer to that is to pause, stop the spindle, lift the Z
> > enough to get the debris off the spindle, return to where the bit left
> > off, restart spindle, and resume.  But, like I say, manual control of
> > the axes is locked out and I can't fix it.
> >
> >
> > Danny
> >
> >
> >
> --
> > Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
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> > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused

[sam sokolik]

take a look at the moveoff component.  It is a 'jog while paused' work 
around.  (it actually works pretty darn good)

there are a few sample configs also

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/moveoff.html

sam

On 06/26/2016 05:36 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> Recently discovered this:
>
> When paused, the axes can't be moved by the user.
>
> While that sounds like a safe protection at first, that's actually a
> critical problem.  It is not uncommon to have to "fix" something
> mid-run.  In a few cases I've seen the CNC router pop freed pieces out
> and they land on the target of a plunge.  When that happens, the bit
> plunged into it and you have an unbalanced chunk of wood free-spinning
> on the bit.
>
>
> The proper answer to that is to pause, stop the spindle, lift the Z
> enough to get the debris off the spindle, return to where the bit left
> off, restart spindle, and resume.  But, like I say, manual control of
> the axes is locked out and I can't fix it.
>
>
> Danny
>
>
> --
> Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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>


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