Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[Dave Caroline]

And I used Andy's info and cnc'd a Barber Colman hobbing machine

http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman+pd

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[Gregg Eshelman]

Replacing all the gearing that interconnects the various axes with encoders and 
motors on each bit that spins.



 
  From: "richsh...@comcast.net" 
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
 Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 3:49 PM
 Subject: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber
   
OK, I know nothing about gear hobbing, but have seen that youtube video of the 
little hobber, what kind of work would need to be done to build a cnc version 
of such a machine?
   
 
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[Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[Danny Miller]

I thought it would be a good idea to display what the RPM setting is 
before the spindle is started.

I see current_rps is right there WHILE the spindle is running.

But when I enter "S1", it's set inside LinuxCNC even before M3.  I'd 
like to display it in pyvcp before M3 uses it. current_rps remains at zero.

Is there a way to access the commanded RPM when not actually sending 
it?  I tried but couldn't find it.

Thanks,

Danny


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 October 2016 03:02:20 Dave Caroline wrote:

> And I used Andy's info and cnc'd a Barber Colman hobbing machine
>
> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+co
>lman+pd
>
> Dave Caroline
>
I'm impressed.  Nice work Dave.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[richshoop]

I have looked at some gearing diagrams of gear hobbers and I noticed that a 
'differential' gear set was included. What does that actually do? I suspect it 
is for cutting prime number gears? 

- Original Message -

From: emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net 
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Subject: Emc-users Digest, Vol 126, Issue 2 

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Today's Topics: 

1. Re: Estimated time remaining (Danny Miller) 
2. Re: CNC little hobber (andy pugh) 
3. Re: Estimated time remaining (sam sokolik) 
4. Re: Estimated time remaining (Todd Zuercher) 
5. Re: CNC little hobber (Dave Caroline) 
6. Re: CNC little hobber (Gregg Eshelman) 


-- 

Message: 1 
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2016 17:27:25 -0500 
From: Danny Miller  
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Estimated time remaining 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Message-ID: <1692ab96-d54e-b4b1-4825-5d81dcb18...@austin.rr.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed 

The estimator DOES just use distance & feedrate, not acceleration. This 
is effective for estimating 2D cuts but junk for 3D carving, which 
hinges primarily on acceleration. 

There is no one effective "factor". I have 3D carvings which took 4x 
longer than estimated, others 6x. If it is only a gentle slope then the 
factor could be 1x, all for the same profile. 

When tuning a machine, you can reduce the axis max velocity in order to 
increase the max acceleration, and this can in fact make the machine run 
faster. Note an arbitrary multiplier factor would be useless for 
tuning, as you need to know the actual effect of the parameter changes. 

But the feature I proposed- an ETA timer- I don't see how to do it, 
because the required info isn't on the interface that I can find. 
Specifically "total line count from the G-code" and "current line number 
in the G-code". The concept would fail for sure on G-code bearing 
subroutines but that's not a feature of any of the 3d carving I'm doing. 

The ETA-by-line-count would be inaccurate on 2D cutting, even without 
subroutines, because there's no telling how long a vector is. A curved 
cut can be 10 or 1000 lines but only take a second or two, while a 
single straight line can be a long cutting time. 

Danny 

On 10/1/2016 8:39 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote: 
> I suppose you might be able to make something like that. 
> 
> But I think I have a good idea for improving the run time estimator. Right 
> now how does it work, does it just use the feed rates X distance to be 
> traveled? What if it took that and added to it a factor(derived from the 
> machines acceleration rate) X the number of lines in the file. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: dan...@austin.rr.com 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 11:30:51 PM 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Estimated time remaining 
> 
> I am doing 3D carving, where the Properties analysis is regrettably useless 
> for coming up with time estimates due to not taking into account the 
> acceleration aspect of trajectory planning. 
> 
> I did install the cycle timer pvcp and it does certainly help. 
> 
> But one thing I noticed- these carvings are "mostly" consistent in how much 
> time they're taking per-line. It would be accurate enough to be helpful to 
> calculate: 
> 
> Time Remaining=(total # of gcode lines/gcode lines done so far)*cycletime so 
> far 
> 
> Is there any way to do that? All I can see is access to "time". 
> 
> Danny 
> 
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-- 

Message: 2 
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2016 23:36:46 +0100 
From: andy pugh  
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber 
To: "Enhanced Machine Cont

Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[Dave Caroline]

The differential gears are nothing to do with prime but to add the
traverse into the equation and also to add a rotation for a helical.
I have a diagram of one at
http://www.collection.archivist.info/hobbing.html

then you can wind the hob back along its cut traverse and it remains "in gear"

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC little hobber

[andy pugh]

On 2 October 2016 at 16:17,   wrote:
> I have looked at some gearing diagrams of gear hobbers and I noticed that a 
> 'differential' gear set was included. What does that actually do?

It is for helical gears, and is linked to the feed gears. (Also easy
to do with LinuxCNC and HAL)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 10/02/2016 02:32 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
> I thought it would be a good idea to display what the RPM setting is
> before the spindle is started.
>
> I see current_rps is right there WHILE the spindle is running.
>
> But when I enter "S1", it's set inside LinuxCNC even before M3.  I'd
> like to display it in pyvcp before M3 uses it. current_rps remains at zero.
>
> Is there a way to access the commanded RPM when not actually sending
> it?  I tried but couldn't find it.

It's available on the pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out'.  It's 0 when the 
spindle is stopped (M2 or M5), and it's the commanded S-word when the 
spindle is running (M3).

Details here:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[Danny Miller]

On 10/2/2016 11:05 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 10/02/2016 02:32 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
>> I thought it would be a good idea to display what the RPM setting is
>> before the spindle is started.
>>
>> I see current_rps is right there WHILE the spindle is running.
>>
>> But when I enter "S1", it's set inside LinuxCNC even before M3.  I'd
>> like to display it in pyvcp before M3 uses it. current_rps remains at zero.
>>
>> Is there a way to access the commanded RPM when not actually sending
>> it?  I tried but couldn't find it.
> It's available on the pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out'.  It's 0 when the
> spindle is stopped (M2 or M5), and it's the commanded S-word when the
> spindle is running (M3).
>
> Details here:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
>
>

Yeah I already have that.   It's useful, but I'd like to be able to 
display what the spindle was set for when NOT running.

Specifically I want the commanded S-word.

It does show up under MDI "Active G-codes", but I don't know how to 
access it in HAL.

Danny


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Re: [Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[andy pugh]

On 2 October 2016 at 17:05, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:
> It's 0 when the
> spindle is stopped (M2 or M5), and it's the commanded S-word when the
> spindle is running (M3).

I think that is the problem, he wants to know what the speed will be
prior to spindle start. At a guess in order to pre-select a gear.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 10/02/2016 10:12 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
>
> On 10/2/2016 11:05 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> On 10/02/2016 02:32 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
>>> I thought it would be a good idea to display what the RPM setting is
>>> before the spindle is started.
>>>
>>> I see current_rps is right there WHILE the spindle is running.
>>>
>>> But when I enter "S1", it's set inside LinuxCNC even before M3.  I'd
>>> like to display it in pyvcp before M3 uses it. current_rps remains at zero.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to access the commanded RPM when not actually sending
>>> it?  I tried but couldn't find it.
>> It's available on the pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out'.  It's 0 when the
>> spindle is stopped (M2 or M5), and it's the commanded S-word when the
>> spindle is running (M3).
>>
>> Details here:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
>>
>>
>
> Yeah I already have that.   It's useful, but I'd like to be able to
> display what the spindle was set for when NOT running.
>
> Specifically I want the commanded S-word.
>
> It does show up under MDI "Active G-codes", but I don't know how to
> access it in HAL.

I see, i misread your original email.  I think unfortunately the S-word 
is not available in HAL currently, just in the "active g-codes" where 
you found it.

It would probably be easy to add a motion pin with that information, i'd 
be happy to guide you through that if you like.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting current RPM setting?

[Danny Miller]

On 10/2/2016 11:35 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 10/02/2016 10:12 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
>> On 10/2/2016 11:05 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2016 02:32 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
 I thought it would be a good idea to display what the RPM setting is
 before the spindle is started.

 I see current_rps is right there WHILE the spindle is running.

 But when I enter "S1", it's set inside LinuxCNC even before M3.  I'd
 like to display it in pyvcp before M3 uses it. current_rps remains at zero.

 Is there a way to access the commanded RPM when not actually sending
 it?  I tried but couldn't find it.
>>> It's available on the pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out'.  It's 0 when the
>>> spindle is stopped (M2 or M5), and it's the commanded S-word when the
>>> spindle is running (M3).
>>>
>>> Details here:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah I already have that.   It's useful, but I'd like to be able to
>> display what the spindle was set for when NOT running.
>>
>> Specifically I want the commanded S-word.
>>
>> It does show up under MDI "Active G-codes", but I don't know how to
>> access it in HAL.
> I see, i misread your original email.  I think unfortunately the S-word
> is not available in HAL currently, just in the "active g-codes" where
> you found it.
>
> It would probably be easy to add a motion pin with that information, i'd
> be happy to guide you through that if you like.
>
>
Sounds like a lot of complexity, but it's of great value to know how 
that works.  Shoot!

Danny


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[Emc-users] Got nother math problem

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I am trying to put together a G76 wrapper that will let me do a clean 
cut, test the fit, and if it doesn't, decrement a value thats is added 
or subtracted from the desired thread OD and factored into the z_start 
point, to run it again until it fits. 

I am trying to use some math to allow the usual variations in thread face 
angles, normally around 30 degrees for most threads to adjust the z axis 
start point.  For a 30 degree example, sin[30]=0.5, but that with a 
#<_drive_zstart>=[2.0 +[#<_t_offset> * SIN[30]], according to the 
backplot, is too much of an advance.  Nominally twice too much.

What I want to get is a backplot that shows the start point of the 
threading motion follows the same up to the left angle as a normal G76 
run shows so that the point of the tool continues to cut on its leading 
edge only while cutting the thread deeper and deeper until it actually 
fits. The threads I am getting with good 08ERA60 inserts sure have a lot 
of "hair", and I do have the tip of the insert level with the 
centerline.  This hair, while it cleans up nicely with a die or a pass 
with the correct nut, totally makes trying to measure it a waste of 
time.

Here is the gcode, without adding the looping yet, this needs editing the 
t_offset at the top of the file.

%
( adding a couple new vars to aid in the cut, test for fit, adjust and )
( wash rinse and repeat till the stop button is clicked because it now 
fits. )
#<_t_offset>=   -0.7500 ( use this to adjust size! )
#<_p_offset>=   0.000 ( place holder )
#<_thread_od>   =   9.525 ( starting value )
#<_thread_end>  =   -24 ( mm's obviously )
#<_q_angle> =   30.000 (degrees)
G7 G21 (diameter mode,mm mode, g20=inch mode)
S250

( diddle this stuff if inches as below)
(#<_tp_mm>  =   1.00)
#<_tpi> =   24
#<_pitch>   =   [1.000 / #<_tpi>]
#<_pitch>   =   [#<_pitch> * 25.4] (needs mm's)
#<_thread_od>   =   [#<_thread_od> + #<_t_offset>]
( from thread_OD set drive xline )
( set drive line OD 1st)
#<_drive_xline> =   [#<_thread_OD> + 1.5000] ( a bit large for mm's, works 
for ext )
#<_p_offset>=   [#<_t_offset> * SIN[#<_q_angle>]] (sine of 30? degree 
angle)

( constrain this #<_p_offset> to be lt #<_pitch> either direction )
o150 WHILE [#<_p_offset> lt -#<_pitch>]
#<_p_offset>=   [#<_p_offset> + #<_pitch>]
o150 ENDWHILE

o151 WHILE [#<_p_offset> gt #<_pitch>]
#<_p_offset>=   [#<_p_offset> - #<_pitch>]
o151 ENDWHILE

( set z far enough away sync is good for startup accel wibblies )
#<_drive_zstart> = [2.0 + #<_p_offset>] ( assumes mm's, too far for 
inches )
#<_z_end>   =   [#<_thread_end> + #<_p_offset>]
( calculate this K from pitch )
( set k, peak to valley of std USS/USF thread format = pitch/0.866 -10% 
clipped from peak and valley )
#<_kpp>=[0.8 * [#<_pitch> / 0.866]]

(debug, kpp=#<_kpp>)
( set threads OD, drive_line minus i )
#<_i_cut>=[0.000 - [#<_drive_xline> - #<_thread_OD>] - 0.01]

m3g4p1 (start spindle, wait for speed)
g0x41.1 ( clear armstrong bolts spinning base )
g1f450 z#<_drive_zstart>
g1f250 x#<_drive_xline>
g76 p#<_pitch> z#<_z_end> i#<_i_cut> j0.25 k#<_kpp> r1.6 q#<_q_angle> h5 
e0.25 l2
( leave it where it started from )
g1f450 x#<_drive_xline>
(but out of the way for test fits)
g1f650 z#<_drive_zstart>
m5
g1f650x41.1 (back it out of the way to check screw fit)
g0z150
m2
%
===

Thanks all.

 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] HAL "watchdog" component

[dannym]

I am trying to put this in to watch the VFD modbus driver's "watchdog" pin, and 
tie a pyvcp LED showing VFD is good, as per:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/watchdog.9.html

I used:

loadrt watchdog num_inputs=1
addf watchdog servo-thread

I have 2 issues:

One, it generates the following error:

HAL: ERROR: function 'watchdog' not found
custom_postgui.hal:42: addf failed

My first thought was "well, I didn't include which watchdog it was, it needs to 
be watchdog.0".  But that just gets "function 'watchdog.0' not found".  And the 
line "setp watchdog.timeout-0 1.0" DOES pass,  as does "net vfdReadyLed 
watchdog.ok-out => pyvcp.vfd-ready-led". 

Second, I'm confused.  The man pages only offers "num_inputs" as an option, and 
that only creates more fan-in, not multiple components.  There's no "count" or 
"names" parameter, and I tried, HAL just errors "unknown parameter" when it 
loads.

So can there only be one "watchdog" component, ever?  That doesn't seem right 
at all, that's not how HAL components work.  But how would you include more, 
and refer to different ones?  How does "addf" work?

Danny 

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL "watchdog" component

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:

> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2016 19:59:37 +
> From: dan...@austin.rr.com
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] HAL "watchdog" component
> 
> I am trying to put this in to watch the VFD modbus driver's "watchdog" pin, 
> and tie a pyvcp LED showing VFD is good, as per:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/watchdog.9.html
>
> I used:
>
> loadrt watchdog num_inputs=1
> addf watchdog servo-thread
>
> I have 2 issues:
>
> One, it generates the following error:
>
> HAL: ERROR: function 'watchdog' not found
> custom_postgui.hal:42: addf failed
>
> My first thought was "well, I didn't include which watchdog it was, it needs 
> to be watchdog.0".  But that just gets "function 'watchdog.0' not found".  
> And the line "setp watchdog.timeout-0 1.0" DOES pass,  as does "net 
> vfdReadyLed watchdog.ok-out => pyvcp.vfd-ready-led".
>
> Second, I'm confused.  The man pages only offers "num_inputs" as an option, 
> and that only creates more fan-in, not multiple components.  There's no 
> "count" or "names" parameter, and I tried, HAL just errors "unknown 
> parameter" when it loads.
>
> So can there only be one "watchdog" component, ever?  That doesn't seem right 
> at all, that's not how HAL components work.  But how would you include more, 
> and refer to different ones?  How does "addf" work?
>
> Danny

In the watchdog manual page you will see the two wtachdog functions
"process" and "set-timeouts"

These are the functions tha must be added via addf

(watchdog.process and watchdog.set-timeouts)



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL "watchdog" component

[dannym]

 "Peter C. Wallace"  wrote: 
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2016, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2016 19:59:37 +
> > From: dan...@austin.rr.com
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Emc-users] HAL "watchdog" component
> > 
> > I am trying to put this in to watch the VFD modbus driver's "watchdog" pin, 
> > and tie a pyvcp LED showing VFD is good, as per:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/watchdog.9.html
> >
> > I used:
> >
> > loadrt watchdog num_inputs=1
> > addf watchdog servo-thread
> >
> > I have 2 issues:
> >
> > One, it generates the following error:
> >
> > HAL: ERROR: function 'watchdog' not found
> > custom_postgui.hal:42: addf failed
> >
> > My first thought was "well, I didn't include which watchdog it was, it 
> > needs to be watchdog.0".  But that just gets "function 'watchdog.0' not 
> > found".  And the line "setp watchdog.timeout-0 1.0" DOES pass,  as does 
> > "net vfdReadyLed watchdog.ok-out => pyvcp.vfd-ready-led".
> >
> > Second, I'm confused.  The man pages only offers "num_inputs" as an option, 
> > and that only creates more fan-in, not multiple components.  There's no 
> > "count" or "names" parameter, and I tried, HAL just errors "unknown 
> > parameter" when it loads.
> >
> > So can there only be one "watchdog" component, ever?  That doesn't seem 
> > right at all, that's not how HAL components work.  But how would you 
> > include more, and refer to different ones?  How does "addf" work?
> >
> > Danny
> 
> In the watchdog manual page you will see the two wtachdog functions
> "process" and "set-timeouts"
> 
> These are the functions tha must be added via addf
> 
> (watchdog.process and watchdog.set-timeouts)
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics

Huh.. weird, but is there any way to create more than one?

Kinda beside the point, I made a better component with oneshot + rising=TRUE, 
falling=TRUE, retriggerable=TRUE.  Now it stays TRUE as long as it's been 
triggered in the last 1/2 sec.  That's exactly what I want in a watchdog.


Danny


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Re: [Emc-users] 6 DOF Serial Kinematics

[Marius Alksnys]

Hi, Allyssa,

interesting project! Would like to know more about it and its progress.

I went that way too - used genserkins in 6 axis industrial robot arm 
retrofit project.

1. Drifting or error from perfect line.
While possible, but I doubt there are errors in genserkins math. And 
perfect visualisers confirm that.

More likely reality differs from your theoretical parameters.
Are you sure scale of all axes is correct?
Are homing or zero positions in place?
Are your entered DH parameters accurate enough? Usually arm drawing 
specifies the dimensions, but in reality they might differ slightly. I 
saw people using precision 3D digitisers to get those parameters right.
Joint position might be not exact due to loose PID.
Mechanical gear unit, including toothed belts and shafts might be worn 
out, thus having backlash and looseness.

Robot programming with original robot controller is done by teaching 
method usually. This eliminates or decreases similar errors, which exist 
even with a new robot and a brand controller.


2. Impossible joint angles.
This happens at near-singularity postures. Have to dig deeper in math to 
understand this. For start, I would just recommend not to approach such 
postures and use joint mode to go-by or re-arrange the joints.



For more or better solutions, I would recommend searching for 
information or people.
There are more people who went similar ways too. Maybe they could add 
something more...

Good luck!
Marius

08/03/2016 09:37 PM, Alyssa Wells rašė:
> We are currently working on a project to retrofit a 6 DOF industrial robot 
> with LinuxCNC controls. We have communications working over EtherCAT and can 
> use Axis to jog all six axes of the robot. We have tried our hand at setting 
> the D-H parameters for genserkins, with mixed results. The kinematics appear 
> to be at least a little bit off, despite looking correct in numerous 
> kinematics visualizer softwares.
> For the most part, the robot tends to jog in a straight line, but drift in 
> sort of a curve in at least one direction. Sometimes the kinematics solve to 
> joint angles that are impossible, and the robot faults for "over speed" from 
> trying to go to positions > 1 degrees.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this! If you have any ideas or tips on 
> how we can fix our kinematic model, it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Alyssa
> --
>


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