Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 12:05, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> That style isn't what I had in mind, Andy. External drive & extract
> flange.

Like these?
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2017/01/gears.html
:-)

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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 12:05, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> It sounds like the adjective "taperlock" must lose something in
> the translation,

It must do. I interpret it as a noun.

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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 10:01:58 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 12:05, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > It sounds like the adjective "taperlock" must lose something in
> > the translation,
>
> It must do. I interpret it as a noun.

I believe it may be that too, and that is what the Browning patent calls 
it.  It has a back flange much larger that the taper, machined at the 
large end of the taper, which serves as the pressure plate to draw the 
taper together, and is tapped, same as the draw bolts, so the draw bolt 
can be moved from the untapped clearance hole in the flange, to the 
tapped hole in the flange where it is screwed in to contact the face of 
the pulley and jack it back apart.  6 holes in the flange, 3 clear the 
screw with enough clearance that the flange, (the whole thing is 
slotted, wider than a keyway if so the taper and flange can collapse a 
bit as the taper is drawn in), are used and 3 are tapped for the screw.

Keys are 100% optional in my experience, they never slip when properly 
drawn in.

See this link for a poor pix, upper right on the page. I say poor because 
the taper on the OD of the smaller projection faceing us isn't obvious.



Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 12:48, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?

I have a D1-4 spindle on my lathe, and several chucks, collets,
faceplates etc to suit. So the plan is to make my 4th axis with a D1-4
face so that I can use the same workholding, transfer work to the mill
direct from the lathe, and use the lathe spindle to centre work in the
4-jaw chuck (as centering a 4-jaw on a mill 4th axis is properly
tedious.)

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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 10:04:52 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 12:05, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > That style isn't what I had in mind, Andy. External drive & extract
> > flange.
>
> Like these?
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2017/01/gears.html
>
> :-)

Same basic idea Andy, but uses more length because of the external 
flange. Those are designed for very narrow locations.  Did you make 
those?

These, if not countersunk into the hollowed out face of the pulley, would 
add about 1/2" to the width of the space on the shaft.

Better pix, left face of 80 tooth gear here is 1 of the two I made:



But this pulley's recess can hide that flange to a large extent.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 10:39:11 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 12:48, Dave Cole  wrote:
> > Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>
> I have a D1-4 spindle on my lathe, and several chucks, collets,
> faceplates etc to suit. So the plan is to make my 4th axis with a D1-4
> face so that I can use the same workholding, transfer work to the mill
> direct from the lathe, and use the lathe spindle to centre work in the
> 4-jaw chuck (as centering a 4-jaw on a mill 4th axis is properly
> tedious.)

I have more colorfull phrases, but not for mixed company useage. I have 
an offcentered 3 jaw on mine.  It can set angles for sharpening tools 
but thats about the extent of its usefulness.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

[MH]

Hello,

I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

BR
Max.


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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Hello,
> 
> I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
> for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
> discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?
> 
> BR
> Max.

I guess to start with the DC motor model for example here 
https://www.electrical4u.com/torque-equation-of-dc-motor/ would be a good idea. 
Driving this with a limited voltage and current would probably be a good model 
for the limitations.

I could help out with the math if necessary but have a little bit limited time.

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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:03:06 -0600
> From: Sebastian Kuzminsky 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that
> would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration
>  ?
> 
> On 03/22/2017 12:50 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
>>> for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
>>> discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Max.
>>
>> I guess to start with the DC motor model for example here 
>> https://www.electrical4u.com/torque-equation-of-dc-motor/ would be a good 
>> idea. Driving this with a limited voltage and current would probably be a 
>> good model for the limitations.
>
> I think Max is asking about changes to the LinuxCNC trajectory planner
> that implement variable (non-constant) acceleration, aka "limited jerk".
>
> Currently when you start from a stand-still, command a move, and come to
> rest at the end of the move, LinuxCNC implements a trapezoidal velocity
> profile.  This starts with a constant-acceleration phase until it
> reaches the maximum speed for the move, then enters a constant-velocity,
> zero-acceleration "cruise phase", and finishes with a
> constant-deceleration phase back to zero velocity.  Each phase
> transition has an instant of infinite jerk, when acceleration goes from
> one constant value to another in a single motion cycle.
>
> I think Yishin Li (https://github.com/yishinli) has done some work in
> the area of jerk-limited trajectory planning, but AFAIK it has not shown
> up as a pull request to our repo yet.
>
>
> -- 
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

I think micges (Michael Geszkiewicz) also had an at least partially working
Limited jerk profile TP, not sure if this was pre-CAB or not.

>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 03/22/2017 12:50 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
>> for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
>> discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?
>>
>> BR
>> Max.
>
> I guess to start with the DC motor model for example here 
> https://www.electrical4u.com/torque-equation-of-dc-motor/ would be a good 
> idea. Driving this with a limited voltage and current would probably be a 
> good model for the limitations.

I think Max is asking about changes to the LinuxCNC trajectory planner 
that implement variable (non-constant) acceleration, aka "limited jerk".

Currently when you start from a stand-still, command a move, and come to 
rest at the end of the move, LinuxCNC implements a trapezoidal velocity 
profile.  This starts with a constant-acceleration phase until it 
reaches the maximum speed for the move, then enters a constant-velocity, 
zero-acceleration "cruise phase", and finishes with a 
constant-deceleration phase back to zero velocity.  Each phase 
transition has an instant of infinite jerk, when acceleration goes from 
one constant value to another in a single motion cycle.

I think Yishin Li (https://github.com/yishinli) has done some work in 
the area of jerk-limited trajectory planning, but AFAIK it has not shown 
up as a pull request to our repo yet.


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles - something that would remove the discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
> >> for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
> >> discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?
> >>
> >> BR
> >> Max.
> >
> > I guess to start with the DC motor model for example here 
> > https://www.electrical4u.com/torque-equation-of-dc-motor/ would be a good 
> > idea. Driving this with a limited voltage and current would probably be a 
> > good model for the limitations.
> 
> I think Max is asking about changes to the LinuxCNC trajectory planner 
> that implement variable (non-constant) acceleration, aka "limited jerk".
> 
> Currently when you start from a stand-still, command a move, and come to 
> rest at the end of the move, LinuxCNC implements a trapezoidal velocity 
> profile.  This starts with a constant-acceleration phase until it 
> reaches the maximum speed for the move, then enters a constant-velocity, 
> zero-acceleration "cruise phase", and finishes with a 
> constant-deceleration phase back to zero velocity.  Each phase 
> transition has an instant of infinite jerk, when acceleration goes from 
> one constant value to another in a single motion cycle.
> 
> I think Yishin Li (https://github.com/yishinli) has done some work in 
> the area of jerk-limited trajectory planning, but AFAIK it has not shown 
> up as a pull request to our repo yet.

Jerk depends on the inductance in the motor model and voltage at inductance.

In motor model theres is: DC bus voltage, back emf depending on motor speed and 
resistive voltage drop.

If resistive voltage drop is small jerk limits will depend on speed and reach 
zero at maximum speed. To use a constant will not work.

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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles --> jerk limit

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> On 03/22/2017 12:50 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I want to ask if anybody has worked on different acceleration profiles
> >> for linuxcnc ? I am looking for something that would remove the
> >> discontinuity in the first derivative of the acceleration ?
> >>
> >> BR
> >> Max.
> >
> > I guess to start with the DC motor model for example here 
> > https://www.electrical4u.com/torque-equation-of-dc-motor/ would be a good 
> > idea. Driving this with a limited voltage and current would probably be a 
> > good model for the limitations.
> 
> I think Max is asking about changes to the LinuxCNC trajectory planner 
> that implement variable (non-constant) acceleration, aka "limited jerk".
> 
> Currently when you start from a stand-still, command a move, and come to 
> rest at the end of the move, LinuxCNC implements a trapezoidal velocity 
> profile.  This starts with a constant-acceleration phase until it 
> reaches the maximum speed for the move, then enters a constant-velocity, 
> zero-acceleration "cruise phase", and finishes with a 
> constant-deceleration phase back to zero velocity.  Each phase 
> transition has an instant of infinite jerk, when acceleration goes from 
> one constant value to another in a single motion cycle.
> 
> I think Yishin Li (https://github.com/yishinli) has done some work in 
> the area of jerk-limited trajectory planning, but AFAIK it has not shown 
> up as a pull request to our repo yet.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
> 
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I think this is correct:
  L*di/dt=u <=> (DC_bus_voltage - maximum_resistive_voltage_drop - 
back_emf)/(inductance=L) = di/dt = jerk_limit_max
  L*di/dt=u <=> (DC_bus_voltage - maximum_resistive_voltage_drop + 
back_emf)/(inductance=L) = di/dt = jerk_limit_min


Regards Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles --> state feedback control

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Acceleration profile is a little related to feedback loop. I have worked with 
state feedback control instead of PID for a while and it works great although 
adding integrator have puzzled me a little bit.

Ordinary integrator works between set reference value and measured value and 
this will only work for a dead beat controller. Then gain is lower it will 
integrate not only the current model and measurement errors but also the part 
because real have not yet had enough time to change. Then integrating the model 
error which is the difference between change predicted by model and measured 
value integrator seems to work much better.

In theories for state feedback control they use the zero point and claim it 
could easily be expanded to any point. All articles and books I have read about 
state feedback including linear quadratic control with or without noise (LQR, 
LQG) they use difference between set reference value for position/angle and 
measured position/angle. This must be a little bit wrong and it should be the 
differences for each state because as is now all differences except one is from 
zero. It should be: (angle_ref - angle_mesaured)*gain1 - (velocity_ref - 
velocity_measured)*gain2 - (current_ref - current_measured)*gain3. From the set 
reference value for position the model is used used to calculate set reference 
value for all three values. There may also be an individual integrator for each.


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Dave Cole]

OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.
Thanks,

Dave

On 3/22/2017 9:18 AM, Eric Keller wrote:
> 3(?) of them hold the chuck on the spindle.  When Andy first asked
> about it, it didn't sink in what he was asking about.  My lathe was
> much nicer when I replaced the cams on the spindle, before that it was
> problematic to get a chuck on and off.
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>>
>> Is that a cam lock component ??
>>
>> Thanks,  Dave
>>
>> On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  
>>> wrote:
 I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
 internal corners is a "broach".
>>> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
>>> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
>>> But this is a short, blind hole.
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
>>> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
>>> parts.
>>> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
>>> defined by the standard)
>>>
>>> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
>>> through the mailing list software.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 23:33, Dave Cole  wrote:
> OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.

Well, to be clear, a 4th-axis spindle-nose


-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles --> state feedback control (error in sign)

[Eric Keller]

I think you want to use feed-forward terms as well.  If you look at
robust control, which pretty much obliterated pole-placement and
optimal state feedback control, the general case includes feed-forward
terms. This negates the problem that there always has to be an error
in order for there to be control action.  Integrators will, in
general, promote oscillation.
Robust control can work so well that research in control theory has
really dried up.


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
> There is an error in sign, it should be: (angle_ref - angle_mesaured)*gain1 + 
> (velocity_ref - velocity_measured)*gain2 + (current_ref - 
> current_measured)*gain3. From the set reference value for position the model 
> is used used to calculate set reference value for all three values. There may 
> also be an individual integrator for each.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Different acceleration profiles --> state feedback control (error in sign)

[Nicklas Karlsson]

There is an error in sign, it should be: (angle_ref - angle_mesaured)*gain1 + 
(velocity_ref - velocity_measured)*gain2 + (current_ref - 
current_measured)*gain3. From the set reference value for position the model is 
used used to calculate set reference value for all three values. There may also 
be an individual integrator for each.

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

Andy

I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis 
chuck adapter.  In my case I have 3 chucks for my lathe that uses D1-5 
spindle so it gives much versatility If I could also use them on my 4th 
Axis.  How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you 
are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and 
machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my 
case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US 
$36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt 
this project?

Hubert Bahr


On 3/22/17 6:40 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 22 March 2017 at 23:33, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.
> Well, to be clear, a 4th-axis spindle-nose
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] nother idea for a jog dial

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 03:58:44 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Gene,
>
> I keep many of those small rotary encoders in my parts drawer.  Some
> have better "feel" and the best ones have a click button feature where
> you can push the knob in as a momentary contact.  With out the push
> feature they are not useful.  $2 is a decent price.  I've paid less
> but why care about 50 cents.
>
> Yes, they are mechanical switches.  You have to "de-bounce" them in
> either software or hardware as they can make and break contact.  Some
> are better some worse.  So DO make sure to de-bounce.   In my
> software, after a change is detected I check the value many times in a
> loop with small delay after each check and stop reading after five
> checks give the same result.   This method is very robust even for
> poor quality switches after you find a delay between checks that is
> good.   Usually only takes a millisecond or so to settle.  These are
> not nearly the same quality as optical encoders, they are noisy.
>
> The 100 detent knob with number on it is better for entering numbers
> like how far to move.   With the small knob the user has to count
> clicks the is get annoying after 40 or 50 counts.  I think the big
> wheel is best for jogs.   It would take some effort to enter 40 click
> using the small encoder.
>
> But I really like the small knobs for giving the user a menu to select
> from.   Get a small 2 line by 16 character LCD text display for under
> $5 and you update that display for every click of the rotary switch.
>
> Look at how a car radio works.  They typically use the built-in push
> button to select the function (volume, tuning, bass boost,...) then
> you turn the knob to set the value.  People seem to find this
> intuitive but you MUST use at least a small text display with a rotary
> switch or the user gets very confused.  You can set or read many
> parameters with just one control.
>
> The small rotary knob could be used with the larger jog wheel to set
> the parameters like "distance per tick", "Imperial or metric", "Axis
> select X, Y, Z, ...)
>
I am already doing that with my pushbutton, but have not made it dual 
standard, and I am displaying the jog size, currently only in inches, in 
the pyvcp area on the right. I've a bug or 3 to find yet. And I am 
thinking a total distance moved display would be handier than bottled 
beer.  Thats easily added to the pyvcp-panel.xml and postgui.hal. That 
Imp or Metric switch can easily be added if motion has a tally output. 
I'll have to look at a live system I guess since the manpage 
is "Horribly incomplete" and does not appear to have that as an output 
tally. And the manpage will be 10 years old in another 100 days.  A 
little TLC might be in order... There is not, in the manpage, a G20/G21 
tally out, major bummer for this.

Most annoying ATM is that I have to jog the axis from the keyboard before 
my jog inputs work, axis.L.enable is not coupled in with my current 
code, so I need to put a halmeter on that to verify thats the problem 
and if it is, figure out a way to "or" my jog-enable and whatever drives 
that.

> From a user interface point of view I think these little rotary
> encoders are best used EXACTLY like they are on car radios.  The jog
> wheel is best for jogging as it does not require the user to count
>
> Just remember that ALL mechanical contacts can bounce before they
> settle down
>
> While on the subject there is a third type: This is a bigger knob with
> more pulses per revolution and it turns smoothly with small detents.  
> They are typically used for volume controls on home stereo and try to
> emulate the older pots of running capacitor.I've seen them on
> microwave ovens for sexting the time also. In software you can
> sense the rotational velocity and use this as a multiplier for how far
> each detent advances the number you are controlling.  So if you turn
> it fast 90 degrees means 30 minutes but if you turn it slow 90 degrees
> is 3 minutes.   People find this intuitive also.You'd want a 2"
> knob on this kind.   Not good for a jog wheel but OK for setting some
> other numbers that have a wide range but need to be exact.  These
> wheel are also way-cheap on eBay
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > While perusing the mpja.com catalog just now, I came across an item
> > that could be used as the jog dial, with very similar hal code, its
> > an auto radio etc power/volume control, stock 30403-SW on page 97,
> > right hand column. 2 bucks.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] nother idea for a jog dial

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 11:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Most annoying ATM is that I have to jog the axis from the keyboard before
> my jog inputs work,

This must be a "feature" of your config, as my lathe doesn't even have
a keyboard and jogs fine.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] nother idea for a jog dial

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

While perusing the mpja.com catalog just now, I came across an item that 
could be used as the jog dial, with very similar hal code, its an auto 
radio etc power/volume control, stock 30403-SW on page 97, right hand 
column. 2 bucks.

That thing can't be anything but a mechanical encoder with A/B outputs in 
quadrature.  20 position instead of 100 like the $20 dial. Rated life 
30k rotations, and 20k push switch operations.  Admittedly that is not 
forever, but my GMC's 99 model radio still works perfectly with a 
lookalike to this $2 control 18 years later.

2 or 3 of those on a pendent box would give you total control of a lathe 
or 3 axis mill with just 2 or 3 knobs, no extra switches. 3 signal lines 
per pot, and power/ground in the pendent cable. Or 3 signal lines from 
one pot, and 2 for pwr/gnd, and 2 for axis selection via a switch if one 
pot was enough. That switch just below it could be diode encoded useing 
2 wires to do the axis switching. 1 pot, 1 switch=3 axis independent 
speed jog control with an all off position. 7 wire cable, 6 wire & 
ground shield actually.

Not as impressive if the frogs are watching, but I think just as 
serviceable on the shop floor.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] nother idea for a jog dial

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,

I keep many of those small rotary encoders in my parts drawer.  Some have
better "feel" and the best ones have a click button feature where you can
push the knob in as a momentary contact.  With out the push feature they
are not useful.  $2 is a decent price.  I've paid less but why care about
50 cents.

Yes, they are mechanical switches.  You have to "de-bounce" them in either
software or hardware as they can make and break contact.  Some are better
some worse.  So DO make sure to de-bounce.   In my software, after a change
is detected I check the value many times in a loop with small delay after
each check and stop reading after five checks give the same result.   This
method is very robust even for poor quality switches after you find a delay
between checks that is good.   Usually only takes a millisecond or so to
settle.  These are not nearly the same quality as optical encoders, they
are noisy.

The 100 detent knob with number on it is better for entering numbers like
how far to move.   With the small knob the user has to count clicks the is
get annoying after 40 or 50 counts.  I think the big wheel is best for
jogs.   It would take some effort to enter 40 click using the small
encoder.

But I really like the small knobs for giving the user a menu to select
from.   Get a small 2 line by 16 character LCD text display for under $5
and you update that display for every click of the rotary switch.

Look at how a car radio works.  They typically use the built-in push button
to select the function (volume, tuning, bass boost,...) then you turn the
knob to set the value.  People seem to find this intuitive but you MUST use
at least a small text display with a rotary switch or the user gets very
confused.  You can set or read many parameters with just one control.

The small rotary knob could be used with the larger jog wheel to set the
parameters like "distance per tick", "Imperial or metric", "Axis select X,
Y, Z, ...)

>From a user interface point of view I think these little rotary encoders
are best used EXACTLY like they are on car radios.  The jog wheel is best
for jogging as it does not require the user to count

Just remember that ALL mechanical contacts can bounce before they settle
down

While on the subject there is a third type: This is a bigger knob with more
pulses per revolution and it turns smoothly with small detents.   They are
typically used for volume controls on home stereo and try to emulate the
older pots of running capacitor.I've seen them on microwave ovens for
sexting the time also. In software you can sense the rotational
velocity and use this as a multiplier for how far each detent advances the
number you are controlling.  So if you turn it fast 90 degrees means 30
minutes but if you turn it slow 90 degrees is 3 minutes.   People find this
intuitive also.You'd want a 2" knob on this kind.   Not good for a jog
wheel but OK for setting some other numbers that have a wide range but need
to be exact.  These wheel are also way-cheap on eBay



On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> While perusing the mpja.com catalog just now, I came across an item that
> could be used as the jog dial, with very similar hal code, its an auto
> radio etc power/volume control, stock 30403-SW on page 97, right hand
> column. 2 bucks.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
> internal corners is a "broach".

Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
But this is a short, blind hole.

I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
£8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
parts.
(Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
defined by the standard)

I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
through the mailing list software.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


D1-Cam.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 03:35, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> So, once I get the bronze bearings I found in it pushed out and the
> needle cartridges that were supposed to be in it, pushed in, the next
> step I am considering is, since the left face of the pulley is hollowed
> out, apparently by browning, to a depth of .375" and a diameter of
> around 2.1", thats plenty room enough for a taper lock flange, so I am
> considering boreing that end of the pulley for a thin sleeved taperlock
> hub and installing that as a means of immobilizing that side of the
> pulley on the shaft.

The smallest off-the-shelf taperlock is the 1008 size, and that size
will fit your 7/8" shaft (and they are very cheap)
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/1008-Taper-Bushes/100878-Taper-Bush-Dunlop-2214-p

The minimum hub diameter for 1008 is 63mm, however, and you are 10mm
smaller than that.

Also, machining for a taperlock is a bit of a game, and you need
Whitworth taps (1/4W for 1008 size) which you probably don't have,

More expensive, but much easier to prepare the pulley for, would be a
Trantorque:
http://www.fennerdrives.com/trantorque/_/Trantorque-OE-7/8/
That needs a 1 3/8" plain bore in the pulley.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 09:53, andy pugh  wrote:
> More expensive, but much easier to prepare the pulley for, would be a
> Trantorque:
> http://www.fennerdrives.com/trantorque/_/Trantorque-OE-7/8/
> That needs a 1 3/8" plain bore in the pulley.

I just noticed how much more expensive. That's crazy money. I am used
to them costing about £30.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Dave Cole]

Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?

Is that a cam lock component ??

Thanks,  Dave

On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
>> internal corners is a "broach".
> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
> But this is a short, blind hole.
>
> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
> parts.
> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
> defined by the standard)
>
> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
> through the mailing list software.
>
>
>
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done this?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 05:53:32 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 03:35, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > So, once I get the bronze bearings I found in it pushed out and the
> > needle cartridges that were supposed to be in it, pushed in, the
> > next step I am considering is, since the left face of the pulley is
> > hollowed out, apparently by browning, to a depth of .375" and a
> > diameter of around 2.1", thats plenty room enough for a taper lock
> > flange, so I am considering boreing that end of the pulley for a
> > thin sleeved taperlock hub and installing that as a means of
> > immobilizing that side of the pulley on the shaft.
>
> The smallest off-the-shelf taperlock is the 1008 size, and that size
> will fit your 7/8" shaft (and they are very cheap)
> https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/1008-Taper-Bushes/100878-Taper-Bush-Dunl
>op-2214-p

That style isn't what I had in mind, Andy. External drive & extract 
flange. And I can make it on TLM. With a drive flange small enough to 
fit in the recess already there, all I have to do to the pulley is make 
a 7 degree taper maybe 1/2" deep, and drill and tap for the draw bolts, 
3 ea 4mm cap screws should pull it well enough.  Thats assuming I can 
drive them in the space available.  I'll have to do a trial reassembly 
to check that once the new bearings are installed. 'twouldn't be the 
first time I've cut the short arm of an allen wrench down to fit the 
space available.

I have already made 2 such taperlock hubs, one for a 6.35mm bore, and one 
of a 10mm bore, just in cnc'ing TLM. Thats the one thing that has been 
troublefree, and now with tapered gibs, its doing quite precise work for 
a $350 lathe off the "touring the country" truck, but its taken quite 
some effort to get it there.
>
> The minimum hub diameter for 1008 is 63mm, however, and you are 10mm
> smaller than that.
>
> Also, machining for a taperlock is a bit of a game, and you need
> Whitworth taps (1/4W for 1008 size) which you probably don't have,

Nope, no such critters here. Fractional/machine screw, and metric taps on 
hand.

> More expensive, but much easier to prepare the pulley for, would be a
> Trantorque:
> http://www.fennerdrives.com/trantorque/_/Trantorque-OE-7/8/
> That needs a 1 3/8" plain bore in the pulley.

Expen$ive, yeah, 80 USD (and ship no doubt, will put that north of $120 
USD. And a 2 to 4 week ship delay, by which time I can be making swarf 
by making my own.

Thanks Andy, but I think I'll DIY this one. That will surely outlast 
me. :)  It sounds like the adjective "taperlock" must lose something in 
the translation, I have the "Browning" style in mind.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] nother idea for a jog dial

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 07:20:05 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 11:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Most annoying ATM is that I have to jog the axis from the keyboard
> > before my jog inputs work,
>
> This must be a "feature" of your config, as my lathe doesn't even have
> a keyboard and jogs fine.

There are some lines in the starter hal file that I used that set 
axis.L.enable false, then couple it to another signal to activate it. I 
need to trace that and see if its my problem.  That could be something 
that is not in TLM's hal file at all and could be excised.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Eric Keller]

3(?) of them hold the chuck on the spindle.  When Andy first asked
about it, it didn't sink in what he was asking about.  My lathe was
much nicer when I replaced the cams on the spindle, before that it was
problematic to get a chuck on and off.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>
> Is that a cam lock component ??
>
> Thanks,  Dave
>
> On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>>> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
>>> internal corners is a "broach".
>> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
>> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
>> But this is a short, blind hole.
>>
>> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
>> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
>> parts.
>> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
>> defined by the standard)
>>
>> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
>> through the mailing list software.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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