Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
I didn't make it to ISEA, but was in Istanbul a few years ago (few trips back forth). Ana, your post reminded me of this day. I met up with a friend and his friends (locals) who showed us around an older part of Istanbul - near (/in?) Balat I think. my friend's friend had grown up there and her grandmother still lived there. it was fairly run-down, but very close to the river. we could imagine developers salivating over the land. there were posters with numbers on each building and I think they mentioned it was some sort of census count. so I'd be interested to hear if this area is still untouched or if it's becoming gentrified like other areas. it had such a great vibe - so relaxed in the middle of the bustling craziness that is other parts of Istanbul (well that I saw anyway). ladies knitting in the street talking, people in the street stalls. crumbling buildings. people on the roofs fixing holes. an old tower - it looked like the remains of a fort or a wall of some sort. I think I recorded some audio of it on a sound walk, and video too somewhere, plus a few photos. http://www.flickr.com/photos/aliak_com/2429190328 http://www.flickr.com/photos/aliak_com/2428374595 http://www.flickr.com/photos/aliak_com/2428375105 http://www.flickr.com/photos/aliak_com/tags/istanbuloldcity On 21 September 2011 06:36, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
On a more mundane level, my friends and I went to dinner at a kebap house, the first one in Istanbul. And, as we enjoyed the meal, they mentioned that there was a downside to kebap restaurants, and that was that they were delicious, inexpensive, and hearty but that they were crowding out the Ottoman cuisine, with all of its widely varied flavors and laborious techniques. They then added that the traditional food of Istanbul was the refinement of many years of hybridization, reflecting the general uneasiness of change, modernity, and cosmopolitanism. It was a regionally specific version of the debates about fast food culture (convenience, taste, expense), but one that I could very easily relate to, but never would have even noticed had I not been staying with Turkish friends. Davin On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.net wrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
One evening we went to a restaurant (Aristane) that specialises in recreating or reinterpreting Ottoman cuisine. The dishes were dated (1473, 1620, 1701, etc). It wasn't cheap (eg: by UK standards it was approaching Michelin prices) but the food was fascinating, complex and in some instances astounding. If you are into serious cooking this would have pleased you. It was also out from the centre, quite a taxi ride. It was worth it. Memorable. Not a kebab in sight (there was a dish called a kebab - but it wasn't). best Simon On 22 Sep 2011, at 08:02, davin heckman wrote: On a more mundane level, my friends and I went to dinner at a kebap house, the first one in Istanbul. And, as we enjoyed the meal, they mentioned that there was a downside to kebap restaurants, and that was that they were delicious, inexpensive, and hearty but that they were crowding out the Ottoman cuisine, with all of its widely varied flavors and laborious techniques. They then added that the traditional food of Istanbul was the refinement of many years of hybridization, reflecting the general uneasiness of change, modernity, and cosmopolitanism. It was a regionally specific version of the debates about fast food culture (convenience, taste, expense), but one that I could very easily relate to, but never would have even noticed had I not been staying with Turkish friends. Davin On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.net wrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre Simon Biggs si...@littlepig.org.uk www.littlepig.org.uk @SimonBiggsUK skype: simonbiggsuk s.bi...@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
Last week I was giving a lecture in Barcelona and bought Pamuk's book about Istanbul. Wonderful reading, references and essays. By the way, his project the Museum of the Innocence has suffered many delays and he was himself gone from Turkey for a while to avoid being in trial for his comments about the Turkish genocide of Armenians. http://www.todayszaman.com/news-185206-pamuks-museum-of-innocence-to-open-in-2010.html http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/The-museum-that-was-written-down/21427 Ana, who loves the merge of Byzantium, Constantinople and Istanbul... On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:02 AM, davin heckman davinheck...@gmail.comwrote: On a more mundane level, my friends and I went to dinner at a kebap house, the first one in Istanbul. And, as we enjoyed the meal, they mentioned that there was a downside to kebap restaurants, and that was that they were delicious, inexpensive, and hearty but that they were crowding out the Ottoman cuisine, with all of its widely varied flavors and laborious techniques. They then added that the traditional food of Istanbul was the refinement of many years of hybridization, reflecting the general uneasiness of change, modernity, and cosmopolitanism. It was a regionally specific version of the debates about fast food culture (convenience, taste, expense), but one that I could very easily relate to, but never would have even noticed had I not been staying with Turkish friends. Davin On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.net wrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
Turkish cuisine eaten by the Caliphs was one of the most sofisticated kitchens in the world :) I was in Istanbul last year during the last week of Ramadan and we ate an Eid menu in a posh restaurang in an island, magnificent. Ana On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:31 AM, Simon Biggs si...@littlepig.org.uk wrote: One evening we went to a restaurant (Aristane) that specialises in recreating or reinterpreting Ottoman cuisine. The dishes were dated (1473, 1620, 1701, etc). It wasn't cheap (eg: by UK standards it was approaching Michelin prices) but the food was fascinating, complex and in some instances astounding. If you are into serious cooking this would have pleased you. It was also out from the centre, quite a taxi ride. It was worth it. Memorable. Not a kebab in sight (there was a dish called a kebab - but it wasn't). best Simon On 22 Sep 2011, at 08:02, davin heckman wrote: On a more mundane level, my friends and I went to dinner at a kebap house, the first one in Istanbul. And, as we enjoyed the meal, they mentioned that there was a downside to kebap restaurants, and that was that they were delicious, inexpensive, and hearty but that they were crowding out the Ottoman cuisine, with all of its widely varied flavors and laborious techniques. They then added that the traditional food of Istanbul was the refinement of many years of hybridization, reflecting the general uneasiness of change, modernity, and cosmopolitanism. It was a regionally specific version of the debates about fast food culture (convenience, taste, expense), but one that I could very easily relate to, but never would have even noticed had I not been staying with Turkish friends. Davin On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.net wrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.netwrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
i agree started with the renaming of Constantinople to Istambul (litererally Big City) after all the turks are a kind of germans / americans when it comes to regional domination i was in North Syria from Damascus by plane to Allepo ( melting cultures for ages already, the Gay capital of the arabic middele east) sitting next to an eldery woman who told me the story of her fathers hiding in the pit of their garden when the soldiers of the Ottomanian empire went looking for young men to be enslaved in its army these memories are lively and worth remembering Ataturk tried to 'modernize' the empire and succeeded to eradicate age old kurdish, armenian, christian and jewish culture The price he paid for that is still reflected in the reluctant attitude towards Turkey's ambition in being part of Europe Do not forget the expulsions of the Greek population in 1919 (Smyrna) and the genocide on the Armenians , a real obstacle towards the acceptance of an European membership Also its pact with the German Empire (1914-1918) did the region no good for the victors of this culture clash resulted in the occupation of the Middle Eastern former Ottomanian Empire (including Palestina- now called Israel) by French and British ursurpators. A situation directly leading to the current instability in this region btw the Haya Sophia once was the biggest Eastern Orthodox Church, turned into a Mosque after the conquest of Constantinople around 1500 or so In still earlier times the city was called Miklagrad by the Vikings, who had their empire there and all the way to Norther Europe Forgive me my unsollicited history lesson , but as most of this list is not directly Europe related , I took this liberty best Andreas Maria Jacobs aka Agcharim Ben Ab Sent from my eXtended BodY On 21 sep 2011, at 14:43, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.net wrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wro te: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/ mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return.
Re: [-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
thanks Ana! On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the turkization and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book From the Holy Mountain, by William Dalrymple. He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures. Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance... Ana On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens mic...@p2pfoundation.netwrote: hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday) Michel On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia1585353 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia, wi mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens55; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
[-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)
I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation. Ana -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15853 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ mobil/cell +4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
