Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
Hi, your concept sounds heavy sci-fi but very interesting ;-)) I heard M$ is working on a concept with touch-screens much like in minority report. I've even seen some products on cebit this year that combine monitor+touchpad with some driver to do work the 'minority report' style. the big disadvantage is that you can't use it on every computer (think of laptops). so the basic input methods we know today should remain the basic input methods in a new desktop concept (-- IMHO ;-)) btw 2010 sounds like a great year, if you really start developing a new concept, let me know. I'm really interested and sure I can use some spare-time for coding ;-)) Regards, Olli On Mi, 2009-04-15 at 14:59 -0700, Arlo White wrote: I've been following the Enlightenment project for years, always impressed by the strength of vision and dedication of the developers. Every once in a while I take an inventory of the graphical toolkits out there and am always disappointed by the fact that the EFL is the most progressive desktop gui system out there and yet hasn't really broken into the mainstream. All the other GUIs (QT, GTK, Windows) are built around boring components (boxes, pull-downs, radio, etc.) The concepts behind these mainstream toolkits are decades old. When I look at the web, I see all of the excitement about Web 2.0 and the Cloud and Linked Data. But it's all branded and contained within different application spaces. You go to GMail to access your contacts and send an SMS. You go to Facebook to update your status. You also have your status to set on GMail, AIM, and every other application. These things are really just implementations of a concept. This is especially confusing to less intuitive computer users. Users have to learn a ridiculous vocabulary to do things they already naturally understand: (eMail, Instant Message, AIM, GMail, Yahoo, Facebook, MySpace). Instead users should just have to think I want to send this to Bob (Email/IM) or I want to tell everyone who cares about me something (Post a Status). As the features these companies offer all coalesce, one wonders why we need to be branded at all? Why not just standardize on these features and give users more intimate access to them through their own computer. To make things worse, this is all implemented on a HTML/Javascript layer that was never designed for it. Developers have to wrestle with browser eccentricities and code hackery becomes a necessary part of the development cycle. Instead of looking for a better platform than the browser people have over-inflated its ego (and purpose) and made plugins for it. Now we have Ubiquity, a great idea built on the wrong platform. Rather than take a step back and design a new standard rendering layer we now have Flash, Silverlight, and JavaFX. The browser is tired and overloaded, it's laden with features that belong on your desktop, not next to your web page. If you've read sci-fi, or watched movies like Minority Report, you know what could be possible. Direct meaningful interaction with visual representations of data. I think now is the point in computer history where that vision can actually become a reality. It's simply the intersection of the browser, your desktop, the Web 2.0 services, and personal management tools like OmniFocus or mind-mapping tools (Freemind, Xmind, NovaMind, etc). So let me try to explain this idea more concretely... Imagine your desktop as a space with context. When you start working on a project, you create a new space/desktop for it. As you open files/email/urls it all gets associated with this context. When you decide to work an another project, you'll close this space. Later you come back to it, and everything is as you left it. When you search your computer you can search within a space or all spaces, and move or link things between spaces. A desktop will dynamically adjust to the contents. If you have 3 pictures you're working with, they'll just be thumbnails. If you're working with 1000 pictures, they'll be abstracted as a list that you can manipulate. Now imagine that all of these things you work with have meta data and tools associated with them. Your computer has a hierarchy of objects and tools. For example, a picture can be scaled, rotated, color filtered etc. Text can have different fonts, colors, be translated. These tools are really just simple programs or scripts that are visually abstracted. Eventually there might be a database of tools you could download for different purposes. This is one of the more difficult components to design well, but I think it can be done. Within a space you can create selections of different objects and save the selection. Once you have a selection you can act on it in different ways. You can act on their common properties. So since all objects have a creation date, you can sort
Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Mister Olli mister.o...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, your concept sounds heavy sci-fi but very interesting ;-)) I heard M$ is working on a concept with touch-screens much like in minority report. I've even seen some products on cebit this year that combine monitor+touchpad with some driver to do work the 'minority report' style. the big disadvantage is that you can't use it on every computer (think of laptops). so the basic input methods we know today should remain the basic input methods in a new desktop concept (-- IMHO ;-)) Its sounds M$ Surface[1] to me... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Surface btw 2010 sounds like a great year, if you really start developing a new concept, let me know. I'm really interested and sure I can use some spare-time for coding ;-)) Regards, Olli On Mi, 2009-04-15 at 14:59 -0700, Arlo White wrote: I've been following the Enlightenment project for years, always impressed by the strength of vision and dedication of the developers. Every once in a while I take an inventory of the graphical toolkits out there and am always disappointed by the fact that the EFL is the most progressive desktop gui system out there and yet hasn't really broken into the mainstream. All the other GUIs (QT, GTK, Windows) are built around boring components (boxes, pull-downs, radio, etc.) The concepts behind these mainstream toolkits are decades old. When I look at the web, I see all of the excitement about Web 2.0 and the Cloud and Linked Data. But it's all branded and contained within different application spaces. You go to GMail to access your contacts and send an SMS. You go to Facebook to update your status. You also have your status to set on GMail, AIM, and every other application. These things are really just implementations of a concept. This is especially confusing to less intuitive computer users. Users have to learn a ridiculous vocabulary to do things they already naturally understand: (eMail, Instant Message, AIM, GMail, Yahoo, Facebook, MySpace). Instead users should just have to think I want to send this to Bob (Email/IM) or I want to tell everyone who cares about me something (Post a Status). As the features these companies offer all coalesce, one wonders why we need to be branded at all? Why not just standardize on these features and give users more intimate access to them through their own computer. To make things worse, this is all implemented on a HTML/Javascript layer that was never designed for it. Developers have to wrestle with browser eccentricities and code hackery becomes a necessary part of the development cycle. Instead of looking for a better platform than the browser people have over-inflated its ego (and purpose) and made plugins for it. Now we have Ubiquity, a great idea built on the wrong platform. Rather than take a step back and design a new standard rendering layer we now have Flash, Silverlight, and JavaFX. The browser is tired and overloaded, it's laden with features that belong on your desktop, not next to your web page. If you've read sci-fi, or watched movies like Minority Report, you know what could be possible. Direct meaningful interaction with visual representations of data. I think now is the point in computer history where that vision can actually become a reality. It's simply the intersection of the browser, your desktop, the Web 2.0 services, and personal management tools like OmniFocus or mind-mapping tools (Freemind, Xmind, NovaMind, etc). So let me try to explain this idea more concretely... Imagine your desktop as a space with context. When you start working on a project, you create a new space/desktop for it. As you open files/email/urls it all gets associated with this context. When you decide to work an another project, you'll close this space. Later you come back to it, and everything is as you left it. When you search your computer you can search within a space or all spaces, and move or link things between spaces. A desktop will dynamically adjust to the contents. If you have 3 pictures you're working with, they'll just be thumbnails. If you're working with 1000 pictures, they'll be abstracted as a list that you can manipulate. Now imagine that all of these things you work with have meta data and tools associated with them. Your computer has a hierarchy of objects and tools. For example, a picture can be scaled, rotated, color filtered etc. Text can have different fonts, colors, be translated. These tools are really just simple programs or scripts that are visually abstracted. Eventually there might be a database of tools you could download for different purposes. This is one of the more difficult components to design well, but I think it can be done. Within a space you can create selections of different objects and save the selection. Once you have a selection you can act on it
Re: [e-users] lastest build missing my system menu
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:39 -0300 Iván Briano (Sachiel) sachi...@gmail.com said: On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Geoffrey li...@serioustechnology.com wrote: batden wrote: Le mercredi 15 avril 2009 à 09:38 -0400, Geoffrey a écrit : After my most recent build, I'm missing my system menu which allowed me to lock/reboot/shutdown my box. I've checked the configuration editor, but don't see an option to add this menu back. Anyone know how to recover this? Workaround: Try editing sysactions.conf Look for [PREFIX]/etc/enlightenment/sysactions.conf and uncomment the line: # user: myuser allow: * (replace myuser with the correct value) I have already done this. Someone else suggested installing the Systems module, which I did, but now I get an empty systems menu. If I click on the System menu item, I get a partial popup window about 1 cm wide. All I can make out on the window is a partial cancel button. If I click on the window, it goes away. It's not an empty menu, it popups that window. But you lack the configuration for it. I suggest you wipe your config and start fresh, as it seems you are still using the old default profile, which doesn't merge configuration changes anymore. unfortunately no gui config (right now) to modify the contents of that popup - so you'll need to get a fresh config profile that has the config data. I blew away my ~/.e directory and all is well. That is a bit of a pain, as I have a number of custom icons in my shelf. Oh well, such is the life on the bleeding edge. ;) -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] lastest build missing my system menu
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Geoffrey li...@serioustechnology.com wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:39 -0300 Iván Briano (Sachiel) sachi...@gmail.com said: On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Geoffrey li...@serioustechnology.com wrote: batden wrote: Le mercredi 15 avril 2009 à 09:38 -0400, Geoffrey a écrit : After my most recent build, I'm missing my system menu which allowed me to lock/reboot/shutdown my box. I've checked the configuration editor, but don't see an option to add this menu back. Anyone know how to recover this? Workaround: Try editing sysactions.conf Look for [PREFIX]/etc/enlightenment/sysactions.conf and uncomment the line: # user: myuser allow: * (replace myuser with the correct value) I have already done this. Someone else suggested installing the Systems module, which I did, but now I get an empty systems menu. If I click on the System menu item, I get a partial popup window about 1 cm wide. All I can make out on the window is a partial cancel button. If I click on the window, it goes away. It's not an empty menu, it popups that window. But you lack the configuration for it. I suggest you wipe your config and start fresh, as it seems you are still using the old default profile, which doesn't merge configuration changes anymore. unfortunately no gui config (right now) to modify the contents of that popup - so you'll need to get a fresh config profile that has the config data. I blew away my ~/.e directory and all is well. That is a bit of a pain, as I have a number of custom icons in my shelf. Oh well, such is the life on the bleeding edge. ;) You dont need to lose your icons.. you can save some cfgs and replace it after the remotion of .e directory. Like .e/e/config/module.ibar.cfg. Its because the problem is not in ibar.. and the directory .e/e/applications too. -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- === Diogo Dutra Albuquerque Meu Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/3624796077679922 -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] lastest build missing my system menu
Diogo Dutra wrote: On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Geoffrey li...@serioustechnology.com wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: snip unfortunately no gui config (right now) to modify the contents of that popup - so you'll need to get a fresh config profile that has the config data. I blew away my ~/.e directory and all is well. That is a bit of a pain, as I have a number of custom icons in my shelf. Oh well, such is the life on the bleeding edge. ;) You dont need to lose your icons.. you can save some cfgs and replace it after the remotion of .e directory. Like .e/e/config/module.ibar.cfg. Its because the problem is not in ibar.. and the directory .e/e/applications too. Thanks, will note that next update. ;) -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 02:59:47PM -0700, Arlo White wrote: Tell me what you think. Has anyone heard of similar ideas? I've tried to find projects related to this but I don't even know what to search for. It's a bit cynical but I truly believe that this is something that won't ever come out of the big companies and can only be developed through open source. Large web companies won't be interested because it essentially obsoletes most of their products. No need for Google Docs, GMail, Picasa, Yahoo's Portal/email, etc. I'm not sure Microsoft or Apple has the vision or desire either. Heh, it's exactly what Microsoft's primary vision is - one integrated desktop environment, providing you all the services you'd ever need. ActiveDirectory and Exchange to integrate contacts and messaging. One univocal services platform, dictating your needs and abilities. One vision for what you can do with your computer. Your idea is old hat, and it's and ugly hat. Give me well-defined interfaces any day of the week. There's a reason they have absurd computer interaction models in movies and television shows: they're fictional. -- Ross Vandegrift r...@kallisti.us If the fight gets hot, the songs get hotter. If the going gets tough, the songs get tougher. --Woody Guthrie -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
basically you want us to re-implement every application in existence so it works with your idea. you know that isnt going to happen? (from photo editor to text editor and so on...) Hi. Raster, i don't think that is what he means, but to have the desktop itself to recognise WHAT you want to do and make it for you (with the current app). I think KDE works toward this direction Unfotunately, i don't think this is possible in the short term. In in close source, you said it before, they just don't care and can't think of it. In the free software way..they just take too long, imagine how long will take to just think and make a standard of what to do, implement it will take centuries (look hurd). But in the open source something even worse happen, all things relies in other people things that relies in other people things, they are not make togheter (except, well, kde. But even they are limitated) I'll put it this way, think in E17. E17 relies in EFL, ok, those are ours and that is why E17 works perfect with them. But EFL relies in LOT of other libraries that are general pourpuse, like libjpeg, libstdc, blah blah blah.and this is the open source way to work, it has always been this way. In order to do what you want, all people of ALL project should work togheter to one same goal, and we all know that is not going to happen (look any distribution that works without a coorporation, they all have a same goal and they all have issue, like debian, gentoo, etc). And there is one more thing, E's topic is as fast and eyecandy as posible, and don't think going this way that's gonna happen Don't get me wrong, please, i love your idea. I know that today's technology is capable of do that. Is software that needs to evolve. But i don't think that going to happen soon. I REALLY hope you can shout my mouth and proobe i'm wrong cheers -- Wido -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
Thanks for the feedback. I have seen clips of Microsoft Surface. However, it doesn't look like it's targeted at replacing our working desktop. It seems like more of a social toy with a few useful features rather than a new user interface that will replace our current operating system. Though I'm sure Microsoft is looking at incorporating some of the ideas into Windows. Well, realistically I need to sort all of my ideas into what's possible for a first release. For example, the visual database design kind of stuff will need to wait. My general plan is that at first it would be a Linux desktop. If it gains interest and as features are added it will make more sense and may even be necessary to make it its own distro. At some point in the far future there may come a time to make a commercial arm and really push it into everyone's lives, but that's just a dream at this point. I kind of look at this project in terms of what applications/services can it replace and bring into your native desktop. So for the first Linux desktop release, I'd like to complete wrap around email, im, address books. Then there's the object hierarchy/ontology, spaces, tagging, etc and the scripts/tools standardization. I still have to work through the exact details of how the layers will interact. Raster just replied: basically you want us to re-implement every application in existence so it works with your idea. you know that isnt going to happen? (from photo editor to text editor and so on...) Not every application. I think big apps always will have a place, e.g. 3D Studio Max, Music Mixing software, etc. I just think that many of the applications out there would be unnecessary if your computer was just more capable. It sort of ties into Tim Berners-Lee's talk on linked data. Why create brand new apps or websites around each data set? Why not just naturally access and manipulate the data with your computer? Use a collection of small tools that have uses if different contexts rather than one big tool that has just one useful domain. It's exactly like the GNU command line tools. This time the command prompt is your desktop and each program can be executed through a discoverable interface rather than having to know the name of the tool. And just like GNU tools, you can install new tools and have them integrate with your desktop easily. Think of why you use the command line and the power of piping programs together. This project would bring that kind of power to the average user in a visual form. Take grep for example. In this desktop, when you have muti-line text selected you'll have the option to filter lines. Under the hood the system will be using grep. It's just a matter of gluing everything together in a clever way. I'm not naive enough to think I can do all of the work alone. But if I can just get a few developers to help design the core user-interface and concepts. The rest is just plugins and tools written to the standard. As these tools mature you'll bring them into the core set of tools that people will begin to expect from the system. So for example: Somebody wants to watermark a bunch of pictures. This tool doesn't exist in the default system. They go to an online repository of tools and search for watermark and find something. The developer of this tool just had to think about an array of pixels and what parameters the tools has, such as the location of the watermark and the watermark image. After the user installs the plugin they can create a selection of images and use the tool to watermark them. Think about the difference from the way its done today. Both the user and the developers job is easier! The developer didn't have to worry about designing a user-interface or a full-blown application. They just had to write a little script that adheres to a certain API. The user didn't have to learn a new user interface. More importantly they had to do less work in terms of clicks. The simplest application would require you to go through an open dialog or drag-drop pictures onto your watermarking app. What's more is that combinations of plugins will increase the power of the other tools. So say in this situation I have 1000 pictures all in the same folder. Their names are a mess, and I only want to watermark a portion of them based on size. If I get a selection tool that lets me filter my selection of images based on size, then I just use the watermarking tool on that sub selection. With another authors image file filtering tool I've increased the power of the watermarking tool and any other image processing tool. Again, in the current (old) model, you would have to rewrite your watermarking applicaiton to have image filtering features built-in. I think it's possible, and more importantly, it's possible to do incrementally and distribute the work. The hard parts are creating a good API and standards for the tool
Re: [e-users] A more profound Enlightenment
hi... I think the idea behind M$ Surface is heavily inspired by MR (minority report) or reverse. As I said, I've seen some cool stuff you can do with technology like that at cebit (deutsche telekom had a pool whose surface was made of a touchscreen ;-)) but it all lacks known input methods. The only way (for end-users) was to use your fingers to interact with the computer. from my understanding it's the same with M$ surface. imho revolutionizing the desktop with a new concept of usage only makes sense if it's usable on (nearly) every computer. so keyboard mouse just can't be ignored. Some say this kind of working with your computer is 'fictional', but when thinking about I see quite some possibilities how it can improve my daily work. As a person who does private business work with the same computer seperating the two is really difficult. Either you search for some kind of information againagain or you just blow up your desktop with all kind of stuff (100+ FF3 tabs really sucks and slow things down, but it's the only way to organise work). being able to seperate all this would be like a dream come true... also thinking of stuff like media (pictures/ mp3/ documents) is a pain-in-the-ass ourdays. Doing stuff like converting pics in mass either requires good shell know-how or an expensive tool (like photoshop, etc)... @arlo: I really hope you get the time to think all this through. I'm on your side when you say that the desktop needs to change. The concept we know today is 30 years old!!! I'm a great fan of enlightenment and it's the most performant customizable graphic management system I know. But it sticks to the old/ current concept. Keep up the work and inform me if there are news on the topic ;-)) Regards, Olli On Do, 2009-04-16 at 09:22 -0300, Diogo Dutra wrote: On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Mister Olli mister.o...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, your concept sounds heavy sci-fi but very interesting ;-)) I heard M$ is working on a concept with touch-screens much like in minority report. I've even seen some products on cebit this year that combine monitor+touchpad with some driver to do work the 'minority report' style. the big disadvantage is that you can't use it on every computer (think of laptops). so the basic input methods we know today should remain the basic input methods in a new desktop concept (-- IMHO ;-)) Its sounds M$ Surface[1] to me... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Surface btw 2010 sounds like a great year, if you really start developing a new concept, let me know. I'm really interested and sure I can use some spare-time for coding ;-)) Regards, Olli On Mi, 2009-04-15 at 14:59 -0700, Arlo White wrote: I've been following the Enlightenment project for years, always impressed by the strength of vision and dedication of the developers. Every once in a while I take an inventory of the graphical toolkits out there and am always disappointed by the fact that the EFL is the most progressive desktop gui system out there and yet hasn't really broken into the mainstream. All the other GUIs (QT, GTK, Windows) are built around boring components (boxes, pull-downs, radio, etc.) The concepts behind these mainstream toolkits are decades old. When I look at the web, I see all of the excitement about Web 2.0 and the Cloud and Linked Data. But it's all branded and contained within different application spaces. You go to GMail to access your contacts and send an SMS. You go to Facebook to update your status. You also have your status to set on GMail, AIM, and every other application. These things are really just implementations of a concept. This is especially confusing to less intuitive computer users. Users have to learn a ridiculous vocabulary to do things they already naturally understand: (eMail, Instant Message, AIM, GMail, Yahoo, Facebook, MySpace). Instead users should just have to think I want to send this to Bob (Email/IM) or I want to tell everyone who cares about me something (Post a Status). As the features these companies offer all coalesce, one wonders why we need to be branded at all? Why not just standardize on these features and give users more intimate access to them through their own computer. To make things worse, this is all implemented on a HTML/Javascript layer that was never designed for it. Developers have to wrestle with browser eccentricities and code hackery becomes a necessary part of the development cycle. Instead of looking for a better platform than the browser people have over-inflated its ego (and purpose) and made plugins for it. Now we have Ubiquity, a great idea built on the wrong platform. Rather than take a step back and design a new standard rendering layer we now have Flash, Silverlight, and JavaFX. The browser is tired and overloaded, it's laden with features that belong on your desktop, not next to your
Re: [e-users] NOTICE: svn feature freeze this weekend (April 17-19)
On 08:51 Wed 15 Apr , Toma wrote: And you want it to clip to its set size? imho they/(each CONTENT) should fit into the container area despite on Appearance settings. and now we've got containers like iBar, iBox and systray. brds. P.S. liirk also broken (undefinite symbol: evas_stringshare_ref) and Drawer also is far from the perfect shape... -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] NOTICE: svn feature freeze this weekend (April 17-19)
On 09:45 Wed 15 Apr , Toma wrote: This is a code issue, not a theme issue... Toma. well, the question is: - why the old theme (link below) is fine? http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/THEMES/blingbling?rev=40070 or where that magic make me happy button is i wonder... it looks like a 'hidden treasure' is buried near by :) 2009/4/15 sda dmitry.serpok...@gmail.com: On 08:51 Wed 15 Apr , Toma wrote: And you want it to clip to its set size? imho they/(each CONTENT) should fit into the container area despite on Appearance settings. and now we've got containers like iBar, iBox and systray. brds. P.S. liirk also broken (undefinite symbol: evas_stringshare_ref) and Drawer also is far from the perfect shape... -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] NOTICE: svn feature freeze this weekend (April 17-19)
ok. another shot: - can someone advise why i can't use shaped borders for menu, gadman popup, exebuf, winlist and modules popups (like tclock) any more? in addition - please look at the attached shot and note that drag'n'drop operations also assume that you have a non transparent rect as a background for dragged files. is that a recent improvements or we could have old behaviour and flexibility we get used to? here goes another funny story... if a shelf is shaped - you get a nasty black corners (covering all spece to the good rect). moreover, shaped shelf (like name: e/shelf/default/base;) placed Above Everything is unable to carry systray module properly. tray icons will be invisible and red/pink tray bg is all you get (this case recently was mentioned by someone, sorry, can't remember exactly). it's enough to remove 'data.item: shaped 1;' to recover our systray. hope this info is useful... this is known, I remember me mailing this in follow up mails to systray announcement: you cannot mix ARGB and RGB windows, specially you cannot have RGB windows that are child of ARGB windows automatically. Since E itself is not doing manual composite redirect of XEMBED windows from systray icons we cannot have: - transparent background icons - transparent shelf (add systray to shelfs below all to work around it for now) - shelfs with automatically scroll contents since being another window instead of simple evas objects will not apply evas clippers (could do nasty hacks to have the same effect, but not doing any of them now, will fix the underlying problem someday) as I already said I'll probably not do the xembed/composite anytime soon. After viktor (saturn_vk/urandom) is done with his esmart_xpixmap we can try to have it in, but until then I'm just postponing the work. KDE, for instance, should drop current freedesktop.org systray spec in favor of their own (which raster already looked and likes much more, maybe will become a standard later) in their next release, so no KDE apps generating dock requests using the old way. If it can go away, why bother too much now if the basics/defaults works? huge thanks for the explanations. but beg your pardon for my stupidity i'm still don't understand the reason why things stoped recently to work as they used to? is it because they worked quite well but wrong some time ago and now they doesn't work right? i'm talking about the rest of shaped issues. some time ago i could D'n'D files with a shaped bg and use menu borders along with customization of a shelf, etc. without composite. now i can't without this nice black additions to the rect. is it a minor issue to be fixed soon? or...? regards, sda -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] NOTICE: svn feature freeze this weekend (April 17-19)
On 09:03 Wed 15 Apr , sda wrote: On 08:52 Wed 15 Apr , sda wrote: Fixed as of revision 40073. :) ok. another shot: - can someone advise why i can't use shaped borders for menu, gadman popup, exebuf, winlist and modules popups (like tclock) any more? in addition - please look at the attached shot and note that drag'n'drop operations also assume that you have a non transparent rect as a background for dragged files. is that a recent improvements or we could have old behaviour and flexibility we get used to? here goes another funny story... if a shelf is shaped - you get a nasty black corners (covering all spece to the good rect). moreover, shaped shelf (like name: e/shelf/default/base;) placed Above Everything is unable to carry systray module properly. tray icons will be invisible and red/pink tray bg is all you get (this case recently was mentioned by someone, sorry, can't remember exactly). it's enough to remove 'data.item: shaped 1;' to recover our systray. hope this info is useful... regards, sda -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] NOTICE: svn feature freeze this weekend (April 17-19)
Fixed as of revision 40073. :) ok. another shot: - can someone advise why i can't use shaped borders for menu, gadman popup, exebuf, winlist and modules popups (like tclock) any more? brds, sda -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
