Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
then it has nothing to do with multihead... i don't know why it' saying that. it's looking for a wm advertising itself as enlightenment - it tries to do this for 2sec if it keeps finding one basically spin wait) and gives up after 2 sec. it uses he netwm window manager name/type check which requires that a property point to a window id of a window created by the wm and that window has the same property with a window id pointing to itself. this means there is a live window that looks like another window manager is there... you aren't running ANOTHER window manager too? could it be a wm run by your login manager that isn't exiting? i guess that test could fail IF the wm doesn't report its name... After power-on my machine, when the gdm started, I logged in on vt1, and made an 'ps fax' output. Attached. The output of ps not shows any wm, but E not starts... PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND 2 ?S 0:00 [kthreadd] 3 ?S 0:00 \_ [ksoftirqd/0] 4 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:0] 5 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:0] 6 ?S 0:00 \_ [migration/0] 7 ?S 0:00 \_ [watchdog/0] 8 ?S 0:00 \_ [migration/1] 9 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:0] 10 ?S 0:00 \_ [ksoftirqd/1] 11 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:1] 12 ?S 0:00 \_ [watchdog/1] 13 ?S 0:00 \_ [cpuset] 14 ?S 0:00 \_ [khelper] 15 ?S 0:00 \_ [kdevtmpfs] 16 ?S 0:00 \_ [netns] 17 ?S 0:00 \_ [sync_supers] 18 ?S 0:00 \_ [bdi-default] 19 ?S 0:00 \_ [kintegrityd] 20 ?S 0:00 \_ [kblockd] 21 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:1] 22 ?S 0:00 \_ [khungtaskd] 23 ?S 0:00 \_ [kswapd0] 24 ?SN 0:00 \_ [ksmd] 25 ?SN 0:00 \_ [khugepaged] 26 ?S 0:00 \_ [fsnotify_mark] 27 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsIO] 28 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsCommit] 29 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsCommit] 30 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsSync] 31 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfsalloc] 32 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfs_mru_cache] 33 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfslogd] 34 ?S 0:00 \_ [crypto] 40 ?S 0:00 \_ [kthrotld] 41 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:1] 44 ?S 0:00 \_ [irq/40-mei] 45 ?S 0:00 \_ [deferwq] 46 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:2] 229 ?S 0:00 \_ [khubd] 236 ?S 0:00 \_ [cfg80211] 269 ?S 0:00 \_ [ata_sff] 290 ?S 0:00 \_ [hd-audio0] 339 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_0] 341 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_1] 343 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_2] 344 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_3] 345 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_4] 346 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_5] 348 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:2] 349 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:3] 350 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:4] 351 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:5] 352 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:6] 353 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:7] 418 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:2] 520 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda1-8] 521 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 535 ?S 0:00 \_ [hci0] 787 ?S 0:00 \_ [kpsmoused] 823 ?S 0:00 \_ [flush-8:0] 867 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda2-8] 868 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 901 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda4-8] 902 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 932 ?S 0:00 \_ [iprt] 1184 ?S 0:00 \_ [krfcommd] 1 ?Ss 0:07 init [5] 554 ?Ss0:00 udevd -d 1036 ?S 0:00 \_ udevd -d 1038 ?S 0:00 \_ udevd -d 944 ?Ss 0:00 /sbin/syslogd 953 ?Ss 0:00 /sbin/klogd 965 ?Ss 0:00 /bin/dbus-daemon --system 1016 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/vnstatd -d 1024 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager 1243 ?S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/dhclient -d -4 -sf /usr/libexec/nm-dhcp-client.action -pf /var/run/dhclient-wlan0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhclient/dhclient-5d4f80a5-7787-44de-8d6f-97a10235668c-wlan0.lease -cf /var/run/nm-dhclient-wlan0.conf wlan0 1029 ?Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd --no-debug 1033 ?S 0:00 /usr/sbin/modem-manager 1041 ?S 0:00 /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -u -f /var/log/wpa_supplicant.log -P /var/run/wpa_supplicant.pid 1062 ?S 0:00 avahi-daemon: running [papi.local] 1071 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/gpm 1085 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/atd 1097 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/bluetoothd 1108 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon 1185 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/crond 1194 ?Ss 0:00
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:54:26 +0100 Páder Rezső re...@rezso.net said: then it has nothing to do with multihead... i don't know why it' saying that. it's looking for a wm advertising itself as enlightenment - it tries to do this for 2sec if it keeps finding one basically spin wait) and gives up after 2 sec. it uses he netwm window manager name/type check which requires that a property point to a window id of a window created by the wm and that window has the same property with a window id pointing to itself. this means there is a live window that looks like another window manager is there... you aren't running ANOTHER window manager too? could it be a wm run by your login manager that isn't exiting? i guess that test could fail IF the wm doesn't report its name... After power-on my machine, when the gdm started, I logged in on vt1, and made an 'ps fax' output. Attached. The output of ps not shows any wm, but E not starts... as i said.. something is saying it's a wm.. with no name at all. maybe it's gdm - i don't know. try a different dm? -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 15:33:14 +0900 Cedric BAIL cedric.b...@free.fr said: Cedric Bail On Jan 26, 2014 2:00 AM, Páder Rezső re...@rezso.net wrote: With enlightenment 0.18.2 I get this error message: A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. But I cannot see any Enlightenment (or other) sessions. What is wrong? A xinerama setup maybe? Better move to xrandr (could be the case with old nvidia driver). i think you mean a multihead setup vs a xinerama/xrandr setup. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
A xinerama setup maybe? Better move to xrandr (could be the case with old nvidia driver). i think you mean a multihead setup vs a xinerama/xrandr setup. :) Okay. What is the solution? XFCE and MATE works nice, just Enlightenment not. I can recompile E, but how? regards, rezso -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:05:39 +0100 Páder Rezső re...@rezso.net said: A xinerama setup maybe? Better move to xrandr (could be the case with old nvidia driver). i think you mean a multihead setup vs a xinerama/xrandr setup. :) Okay. What is the solution? XFCE and MATE works nice, just Enlightenment not. I can recompile E, but how? i don't know what's wrong - i was correcting cedric as i think i know what he was implying - but i don't know whats wrong with your setup. if you use multihead - then i can tell you - you're missing out on features AND using a not-tested feature/path. use twinview or xinerama or randr or mergedfb or whatever they decide to call it in their world - its 1 root window for all screens (xrandr is used to configure this on the fly with xinerama being a very old way to do this in a fixed way for an xserver and expose the configuration info). -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
i don't know what's wrong - i was correcting cedric as i think i know what he was implying - but i don't know whats wrong with your setup. if you use multihead - then i can tell you - you're missing out on features AND using a not-tested feature/path. use twinview or xinerama or randr or mergedfb or whatever they decide to call it in their world - its 1 root window for all screens (xrandr is used to configure this on the fly with xinerama being a very old way to do this in a fixed way for an xserver and expose the configuration info). I have one monitor, with intel driver (Intel HD Graphics, Sandy bridge). -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:01:19 +0100 Páder Rezső re...@rezso.net said: i don't know what's wrong - i was correcting cedric as i think i know what he was implying - but i don't know whats wrong with your setup. if you use multihead - then i can tell you - you're missing out on features AND using a not-tested feature/path. use twinview or xinerama or randr or mergedfb or whatever they decide to call it in their world - its 1 root window for all screens (xrandr is used to configure this on the fly with xinerama being a very old way to do this in a fixed way for an xserver and expose the configuration info). I have one monitor, with intel driver (Intel HD Graphics, Sandy bridge). then it has nothing to do with multihead... i don't know why it' saying that. it's looking for a wm advertising itself as enlightenment - it tries to do this for 2sec if it keeps finding one basically spin wait) and gives up after 2 sec. it uses he netwm window manager name/type check which requires that a property point to a window id of a window created by the wm and that window has the same property with a window id pointing to itself. this means there is a live window that looks like another window manager is there... you aren't running ANOTHER window manager too? could it be a wm run by your login manager that isn't exiting? i guess that test could fail IF the wm doesn't report its name... -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
With enlightenment 0.18.2 I get this error message: A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. But I cannot see any Enlightenment (or other) sessions. What is wrong? Regards, rezso -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On 25/01/14 15:00, Páder Rezső wrote: With enlightenment 0.18.2 I get this error message: A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. But I cannot see any Enlightenment (or other) sessions. What is wrong? Regards, rezso Just a guess: Running 18.2 on my pc has 3 */bin/enlightenment, enlightenment_ start, efreetd and dbus-launch --exit-with-session enlightenment_start. Maybe one of those is still running? rob -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
Just a guess: Running 18.2 on my pc has 3 */bin/enlightenment, enlightenment_ start, efreetd and dbus-launch --exit-with-session enlightenment_start. Maybe one of those is still running? No. My .xsession-errors ends with: ESTART: 0.03375 [0.0] - E_Hints Init Enlightenment Error A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. E - PID=8695, valgrind=0 But in output of 'ps -fax' the PID 8695 not exists. (I attached the output of 'ps fax' as root.) Regards, rezso PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND 2 ?S 0:00 [kthreadd] 3 ?S 0:00 \_ [ksoftirqd/0] 6 ?S 0:00 \_ [migration/0] 7 ?S 0:00 \_ [watchdog/0] 8 ?S 0:00 \_ [migration/1] 10 ?S 0:00 \_ [ksoftirqd/1] 12 ?S 0:00 \_ [watchdog/1] 13 ?S 0:00 \_ [cpuset] 14 ?S 0:00 \_ [khelper] 15 ?S 0:00 \_ [kdevtmpfs] 16 ?S 0:00 \_ [netns] 17 ?S 0:00 \_ [sync_supers] 18 ?S 0:00 \_ [bdi-default] 19 ?S 0:00 \_ [kintegrityd] 20 ?S 0:00 \_ [kblockd] 22 ?S 0:00 \_ [khungtaskd] 23 ?S 0:00 \_ [kswapd0] 24 ?SN 0:00 \_ [ksmd] 25 ?SN 0:04 \_ [khugepaged] 26 ?S 0:00 \_ [fsnotify_mark] 27 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsIO] 28 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsCommit] 29 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsCommit] 30 ?S 0:00 \_ [jfsSync] 31 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfsalloc] 32 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfs_mru_cache] 33 ?S 0:00 \_ [xfslogd] 34 ?S 0:00 \_ [crypto] 40 ?S 0:00 \_ [kthrotld] 44 ?S 0:00 \_ [irq/40-mei] 45 ?S 0:00 \_ [deferwq] 217 ?S 0:00 \_ [khubd] 227 ?S 0:00 \_ [cfg80211] 242 ?S 0:00 \_ [ata_sff] 253 ?S 0:00 \_ [kpsmoused] 295 ?S 0:00 \_ [hd-audio0] 312 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_0] 315 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_1] 317 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_2] 319 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_3] 320 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_4] 321 ?S 0:00 \_ [scsi_eh_5] 502 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda1-8] 503 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 536 ?S 0:00 \_ [hci0] 823 ?S 0:00 \_ [flush-8:0] 874 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda2-8] 875 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 907 ?S 0:00 \_ [jbd2/sda4-8] 908 ?S 0:00 \_ [ext4-dio-unwrit] 938 ?S 0:00 \_ [iprt] 1190 ?S 0:00 \_ [krfcommd] 8007 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:0] 8087 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:0] 8106 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:0] 8138 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:2] 8164 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:2] 8279 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:2] 8318 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/u:1] 8689 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/1:1] 8767 ?S 0:00 \_ [kworker/0:1] 1 ?Ss 0:07 init [5] 555 ?Ss0:00 udevd -d 7889 ?S 0:00 \_ udevd -d 950 ?Ss 0:00 /sbin/syslogd 959 ?Ss 0:00 /sbin/klogd 971 ?Ss 0:02 /bin/dbus-daemon --system 1022 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/vnstatd -d 1030 ?Ssl0:01 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager 1259 ?S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/dhclient -d -4 -sf /usr/libexec/nm-dhcp-client.action -pf /var/run/dhclient-wlan0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhclient/dhclient-5d4f80a5-7787-44de-8d6f-97a10235668c-wlan0.lease -cf /var/run/nm-dhclient-wlan0.conf wlan0 1035 ?Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd --no-debug 1039 ?S 0:00 /usr/sbin/modem-manager 1046 ?S 0:00 /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -u -f /var/log/wpa_supplicant.log -P /var/run/wpa_supplicant.pid 1068 ?S 0:00 avahi-daemon: running [papi.local] 1077 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/gpm 1091 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/atd 1103 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/bluetoothd 1114 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon 1191 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/crond 1200 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/cupsd -C /etc/cups/cupsd.conf 1211 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd 1224 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1225 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1226 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1227 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1228 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1229 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/stunnel 1240 ?S 0:10 /usr/sbin/usbmuxd 1249 ?Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/gdm-binary 1252 ?S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/gdm-binary 8670 tty7 Ss+0:02 | \_ /usr/bin/X :0 -audit 0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -nolisten tcp vt7 8723 ?Ss 0:00 \_
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
On 25/01/14 16:50, Páder Rezső wrote: Just a guess: Running 18.2 on my pc has 3 */bin/enlightenment, enlightenment_ start, efreetd and dbus-launch --exit-with-session enlightenment_start. Maybe one of those is still running? No. My .xsession-errors ends with: ESTART: 0.03375 [0.0] - E_Hints Init Enlightenment Error A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. E - PID=8695, valgrind=0 But in output of 'ps -fax' the PID 8695 not exists. (I attached the output of 'ps fax' as root.) Regards, rezso Weird. Have you tried restarting gdm login manager and X? rob -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
Weird. Have you tried restarting gdm login manager and X? I logged out from MATE, and logged in to Enlightenment. Nothing else. rezso -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Previous instance of Enlightenment
Cedric Bail On Jan 26, 2014 2:00 AM, Páder Rezső re...@rezso.net wrote: With enlightenment 0.18.2 I get this error message: A previous instance of Enlightenment is still active on this screen. Aborting startup. But I cannot see any Enlightenment (or other) sessions. What is wrong? A xinerama setup maybe? Better move to xrandr (could be the case with old nvidia driver). Regards, rezso -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
