Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
Hello Paul, On 2 February 2014 14:24, Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk wrote: On Sunday 2. February 2014 02.09.04 Hynek Schlawack wrote: It’s quite the contrary: the current organizers were criticized for their current work they do and I tried to explain that romanticism about a conference in 2007 isn’t helping, that it’s great to have at least one big European Python conference, they are hard to do, and to the end: let them do their thing. snips That are *completely* different concerns from what you're bringing up and I find it highly irritating to be confronted with pot metaphors based on that derailment. What's a pot metaphor here exactly? Why might someone sensibly advocate a limit on attendees without having some kind of elitist agenda? Oh, that's right, I already explained why: a $100/person loss on a thousand person conference is pretty convincing; maybe it really does have something to do with that after all. This kind of thing is what irritates me hugely about the so-called Python community and why, as I've explained to a few people before now, I've diverted a lot of my time to other initiatives instead. You have people who have made substantial investments of their own time and resources into establishing something that benefits others, and what you often get in response is sniping about some hidden agenda or how people could have done more or better. It's like the mainstream subculture around Python has made some kind of virtue out of getting people to work for free so that people can pretend to be those people's boss and think they have the right to demand things from them. This pervades the so-called community from top to bottom and in almost every regard. Whereas other initiatives and communities offer appreciation for any contribution, with a thank you for having done anything at all, the apparent norm in the Python scene is to tell people that they didn't do enough or that what they did was inferior to what should have been done, or that it wasn't licensed according to community expectations (where they get to sell your work in a binary and send you the bug reports), replacing thank with another word of choice, in effect. I'm sorry, Paul, I agree with you on many things, but this is something I don't recognise at all... Christian wrote that ANY organization having volunteers work for them should be extremely humble for having anyone spend their spare time for them. Yes. Well, without accusing any organisation of anything, I think the so-called community as a whole should re-evaluate how it treats people who offer their time and resources to benefit everyone else. Yes. And I have no knowledge nor experience of the EPS treating its volunteers badly, which I think was what started this thread : a slightly emotional post from Christian based not on first-hand experience, but on hearsay. Best wishes, John -- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Pinner wrote: Well, without accusing any organisation of anything, I think the so-called community as a whole should re-evaluate how it treats people who offer their time and resources to benefit everyone else. Yes. And I have no knowledge nor experience of the EPS treating its volunteers badly, which I think was what started this thread : a slightly emotional post from Christian based not on first-hand experience, Stop guessing please if you do not know better. Christian has experiences organizing the german Zope Python conference for more than ten years and he knows the related people very well. So you claim is wrong. - -aj -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJS7nlSAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjwHALv1a8GGs4vda6Ci3pSWAhp3pM T3do+QdAenbuyPmBg5hiCQvH+Gjz8W4FGX90eSTAuljJzlLvEra0gvWsNuMhaZAP wRff4m5kJ8BgHPMoWHUk3fjAeTra60E1IIz0H97/3gNPlTiunWKnNmZ1Wb9oC82G LKCgupTfTRZ4ko/zQQ2MG+nVScNXPzmcDsqeDvfOtPTK5It2SzItidWVO58P1v0S +0yW1mdRyrV6oNub7Sr4vvphUozq0I+WM0ukjKLzoT6lDIVclULhpG6TmJftD9tM trHzLxMBuJNUeTDNBQekAnPA9ZjeOL36PLZOJBxFvFz2E2hPuwFH7J/7zJlieK1O hTdUHd18VTZI1o1H6yIjxLvdlZGj62t2TeImSV0ggoWdqLGwHaztdLxiK1YGXyHF GG//BGRQAq89G5+6MjO3M/lFy4kC4dhsDZGaUKk1KOko7n3DyCROB0aCpGJTXx5P ky+4c0wNCYQMerwlVEcqCUgoU2JlnDI= =AkZS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
Hi, On 2. Feb2014, at 17:49, John Pinner funth...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. And I have no knowledge nor experience of the EPS treating its volunteers badly, which I think was what started this thread : a slightly emotional post from Christian based not on first-hand experience, but on hearsay. My post was triggered by the things the current organizers, some being close friends, told me in informal settings. Those reports reminded me of exactly the kind of community-internal turmoil that triggered me resigning from official community positions due to the shit I had to deal with in the end. This time its not my personal experience but those of my friends (some of whom did experience the same “friendly fire” two years ago). Might be what classifies as hearsay but hearing those reports makes me extremely sad and angry at the same time as the same people are involved (in the same roles) and nothing seems to have changed. I find my thoughts quite well-represented by that last mail from Paul. Christian -- Christian Theune · gocept gmbh co. kg flyingcircus.io · operations as a service Forsterstraße 29 · 06112 Halle (Saale) · Tel +49 345 1229889-7 signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
Hi John, On 02/01/2014 10:52 PM, John Pinner wrote: Hello, [...] If I can be assured of getting Maisels Weisbier mit Hefe, and Sclenkerla Rauchbier in Berlin near the conference venue, I'll consider the 2014 EuroPython fees reasonable ;-) that shouldn't be the least of your problems. Your Rauchbier is available after a maybe 20 minute walk from the venue (see the first address from here: http://www.schlenkerla.de/verkauf/haendler/branden/berlin.html) Even nearer, you can have the full bavarian experience at a place called Hofbraeu. Stephan John -- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
Hello, On 2 February 2014 19:53, Stephan Diehl step...@transvection.de wrote: Hi John, On 02/01/2014 10:52 PM, John Pinner wrote: Hello, [...] If I can be assured of getting Maisels Weisbier mit Hefe, and Sclenkerla Rauchbier in Berlin near the conference venue, I'll consider the 2014 EuroPython fees reasonable ;-) that shouldn't be the least of your problems. Your Rauchbier is available after a maybe 20 minute walk from the venue (see the first address from here: http://www.schlenkerla.de/verkauf/haendler/branden/berlin.html) Even nearer, you can have the full bavarian experience at a place called Hofbraeu. Thank you, Stephan and Achim, for your help. Clearly this sets the seal of approval on EuroPython 2014 ! The conversation made me thirst for Schlenkerla, so I took a walk 200m from our house and bought some : maybe it is as easy to buy in the UK as in Deutschland ;-) mfg John -- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Pricing (was Re: Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started)
Il giorno 01/feb/2014, alle ore 19:23, Stefanie Lück lue...@gmail.com ha scritto: I think it is difficult to fit all needs and wishes (quantity, quality and costs). One major advantage of the PyConDE for me was, that the tutorials and talks were on different days. Because of this, I did not spent to many holidays and the costs for accommodation was much lower. Perhaps you might think and discuss this for future conferences. You’re mixing cause and effect. If tutorial days are on different days, and you skip them, you get a shorter conference. Nobody prevents you from joining only 2 or 3 days of Europython instead of 5, and save on the hotel. Furthermore it could be convenient if the program start and end about lunch time. People could save two nights at a hotel, if they live not to far away. Again, you’re welcome to arrive later on the first day and leave earlier on the last day; you’ll miss part of the program, but the program you’re missing wouldn’t exist anyway, if the conference was shorter as per your suggestion. Once a venue is booked for the day, it’s a waste to use it only for half-day. -- Giovanni Bajo Python Italia APS EuroPython 2014 https://ep2014.europython.eu ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started
You might not call it ridiculously expensive. For me it was/is and I'm sorry that you don't like that, and if you want to go back and forth on this, I'll unsubscribe from the list (I probably should given it's now out my price range actually). You clearly have a higher disposable income than me - which is cool. Note I also said, *when you factor everything else in*. This isn't a criticism, my comment was an expression of surprise. Once upon a time I viewed Europython as an affordable conference - and one I could and did contribute to, since it moved to Florence (and now beyond) it hasn't been. Again, things move on, it's not a criticism. I'd rather the conference move around between places to avoid any one group getting burnt out. *Expensive is after all a relative phrase*, and I still assert that 400 EURO *is* expensive (from my perspective), and if the organisers feel that's what it'll cost them to run it at non-profit, then fair enough. Just means that it prices out lots of people from coming. But then that's economics for you. I also agree that many others will go wtf? 400 EURO is a bargain! others will go Finally, the cost is at a level where my employer will take it seriously as a real conference, and you'll get a whole load of other people instead. Which again, is cool. Anyway, I'll go back to lurking now. Michael. On 3 February 2014 02:43, Giovanni Bajo giova...@pycon.it wrote: Il giorno 01/feb/2014, alle ore 12:59, Michael spark...@gmail.com ha scritto: 400? Christ on a bike, europython used to be affordable. Florence was ridiculously expensive (when you factor everything in). A 5-days conference with tickets starting at EURO 100 for students and EURO 190 for an individual ticket, including catering of course. On top of that, we got 200 beds with prices at EURO 39 per person per night in double room, and other 200 beds at EURO 45 per person per night, at the 4-star conference hotel, all taxes included. In Florence. EuroPython 2010 was £120 at the extra early bird rate, for a 2.5 days conference, and hotels surely can't get much cheaper. Let's even assume that that means much cheaper for you, still i wouldn't call EP in Florence ridiculously expensive. -- Giovanni Bajo Python Italia APS EuroPython 2014 https://ep2014.europython.eu ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
