Re: [EVDL] Mild hybrid = VW is claiming new EVs will use 48-volt systems

[Stephen via EV]

The switch to 48V being referred to here is the switch from 12V to 48V for
the battery used for the lighting, switches, etc. 48V will allow for much
smaller gauge wire and overall lower weight in the car. It is not referring
to the HV traction battery.

Regards,
Stephen

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 12:34 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

>
>
> I saw this story days ago but decided to wait because I thought it was
> worded wrong.
> There is an existing production 48V EV, the Mahindra E2O:
>
> http://mahindrareva.com/product/specifications
> TECHNICAL ...
> Power   19 KW @ 3750 rpm
> Torque  53.9 N-m @ (0-3400 rpm)
> Battery 48V maintenance-free Lithium-ion ...
>
> Then I remembered about mild hybrids being pushed in the newswires I sieve
> through:
>
> https://google.com/search?q=mild+hybrid+48v
> Mild hybrid with start-stop tech using a 48V pack
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mild_hybrid#General_Motors
>
> Here is an IEEE piece on micro hybrids use mild hybrid with start-stop
> designs:
>
>
> http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/efficiency/microhybrids-hold-the-key-to-future-auto-fuel-efficiency
> Micro-Hybrids Hold the Key to Future Auto Fuel Efficiency
> 7 Jan 2016
>
> In 2003 at EVS-20 mild hybrids were much yakked about as a cheap way for
> automakers to improve their mpg.
>
>
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/public-invited-to-electric-weekend-in-long-beach-hosted-by-electric-drive-transportation-association-72909092.html
> EVS-20 (Electric Vehicle Symposium 20 in Long Beach, CA 2003)
> http://brucedp03.150m.com/evs-20/
>
> It wasn't until a few years ago that automakers began implemented mild
> hybrid designs:
>
>
> http://blog.caranddriver.com/hands-on-with-audi%E2%80%99s-electric-turbo-diesel-hybrid-systems-info-on-new-efficiency-assistant-2012-paris-auto-show/
> September 28, 2012 ... mild-hybrid system called iHEV ...
>
> Bottom line: IMO the 48V VW is as David posted, actually a mild hybrid.
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 02/09/2016 03:06 PM, Roland wrote:

Hello Jay,
A local Nissan dealers normally are not EV technicians.  The dealer
wants you to purchase the whole battery case which includes 33 modules,
a battery charger, controller, and bms system.


My 2013 Nissan Leaf battery contained 48 "modules", some contractors, 
temperature sensors, resistive heaters, a fuse and the BMS system, but 
did not contain a charger.


(The chargers in the 2011/2013 leafs are located in the trunk region, 
and in 2013+ leafs are integrated with the power distribution box on the 
top of the "engine stack" under the hood.)


Hybrid Auto center is a good source if you don't want to pull the 
modules from a wreaked leaf yourself, but you can save a serious amount 
of cash by doing the work yourself.


My per module cost is currently at $18.55 (yes, less than $20 a module!) 
after selling off most of the car to offset the purchase price of the 
wreck.


I spent more money on the charger/BMS/EVSE part of my upgrade than I did 
on the actual modules (but I did put in hundreds of hours of work 
getting them out of the car and putting them into my truck,  as well as 
selling everything else off of the car.)  I only have a few pieces of 
the car left to sell, so I don't expect my per module cost to drop too 
much more ;>


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Roland via EV]

   
Hello Jay,

 

A local Nissan dealers normally are not EV technicians.  The dealer wants you 
to purchase the whole battery case which includes 33 modules, a battery 
charger, controller, and bms system.  

 

I found one in Las Vegas which has a EV shop, that can replace bad modules and 
any other related items.  There address is: 

 

Hybrid Auto Center LLC 

5360 Cameron St, #5 

Las Vegas, NV 89118

 

Ph No. 1-702-374-8602 

 

The Contact Technician is:  "Nick Tranakiev"  
nikmas...@gmail.com<mailto:nikmas...@gmail.com> 

 

A Nissan pack has a 24kw/h pack or 33 modules.  

 

I order three 11KW/h Nissan battery blocks 182V /60AHh (24 modules) for $7470.00

 

or $2490.00 each NEW for 72 modules.   

 

To increase the voltage to 226.8 volts, I added 3 more modules per battery 
block or 9 more modules total.  

 

Each module cost about $103.00 each or $927.00.

 

This included all the plated copper buss bars, wire and cables, bms connection 
wires to all the cells, and mounting hardware. 

 

This made a 45.3 Kw/h pack for $8910.00.

 

This EV shop pre-balance all the modules for exact voltage match with in 0.001 
volt of each other.  This what I normally do before I install any cells in a 
cell group.  My cell group is three modules parallel or one cell group at 8.4 
volts at 199.8 ah.

 

Nick is a EV guy and knows about the EV Album group.  

 

You can email Nick any time for any question you want.  

 

Roland 


- Original Message - 

From: Jay Summet via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

To: ev@lists.evdl.org<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:49 AM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values





On 02/09/2016 11:22 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> On Tue Feb 09 08:08:55 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>> Plus Nissan is committed to a replacement pack for 5500 dollars.
>
> I wonder if it will be possible to just go to a Nissan Dealership and just 
> buy a "replacement" pack...
>
>

Just like buying a starter battery, you'll pay more if you are not 
trading in a "core" or used battery.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[fotajoye via EV]

Nissan policy ties specific range restricted battery packs to specific models
and they don't offer range upgraded battery packs for older models; this
restricts the functionality of the older models and decreases their resale
value greatly.  Replacing a battery that cost almost as much as the chassis
makes little sense.  This is bad policy for the customer.   On the other
hand BMW builds a 'standard battery form factor' that allows upgrades across
their entire line.  If you buy and keep the car, BMW is the wiser decision. 

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[EVDL] EVLN: An automaker's loophole> twice extended CARB travel-provision

[brucedp5 via EV]

'A quirk in the Clean Air Act ... Free pass'

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060031717
Quirky rule ensures top spot for Calif. in clean-car race
February 3, 2016  Ariel Wittenberg

Californians drive almost as many electric vehicles as the rest of the
nation combined, but the same regulations that made the Golden State a
plug-in hotbed are keeping other states from following suit.

California's aggressive zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) regulation is the only
regulation globally that mandates sales quotas for ZEVs, requiring
automakers to accrue credits either through vehicle sales or by purchasing
them from other manufacturers.

While nine other states have signed on to California's landmark ZEV
regulation, automakers aren't currently compelled to actually sell electric
vehicles in those other states, and sales there remain paltry.

That's thanks to the "travel provision," a 2003 amendment added to the
regulation at the behest of automakers that allows manufacturers to earn
credits in every state for cars they place in any state.

In practice, the provision allows manufacturers to concentrate their
alternative-vehicle sales in California, earning enough credits to comply
with regulations in states like Massachusetts, Oregon and Maryland by only
placing actual cars in the Golden State.

Indeed, in 2008, the California Air Resources Board (ARB) described the
travel provision as "ensuring California as the central location for moving
advanced, low [greenhouse gas] technology vehicles from the laboratory and
demonstration phase to commercialization, where they are more critical to
achieving the Governor's GHG emission reduction goals."

It's worked. Today, 40 percent of electric vehicles on U.S. roads are in
California. And while battery electric vehicle sales made up 1.41 percent of
California's auto market share in 2014, the other nine states using its
regulations don't come close, according to IHS Automotive, which tracks
industry data. Among them, Oregon and Connecticut have the highest
proportions of ZEV sales at 0.67 and 0.19 percent of market share,
respectively.

The travel provision won't be in place forever. It's scheduled to end for
battery electric vehicles in 2018, although the provision will remain for
fuel-cell cars through 2025.

The provision elicits mixed feelings from officials in the other nine ZEV
states, who say while it was initially useful in giving them time to install
infrastructure, it acts as a loophole, making it easier for automakers to
comply with an admittedly aggressive regulation while leaving other states'
pollution reduction goals by the side of the road.

"California intended for this discrepancy. It was part of this plan to give
the automakers a leg up," said Matt Solomon of the Northeastern States for
Coordinated Air Use Management (NESCAUM), which helps manage ZEV policies
for those states.

"But it has worked as intended," Solomon said, "and we are now very much
looking forward to the travel provision expiring so our states can continue
to see the ZEV market goal we need in order to achieve our own climate
goals."

Infrastructure
Because of a quirk in the Clean Air Act, states looking to mandate ZEV sales
must adopt the California rule instead of writing their own.

Together, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, New York,
Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont are known as Section 177 states, after the
portion of the federal rule that allows them to partner with California.

The travel provision became part of the regulation in 2003 after the auto
industry sued California to relax its ZEV regulation. The industry said the
rule was too ambitious and included among its concerns that their
requirements were increasing as more states signed onto the regulation.

"Auto manufacturers have expressed concern that the ZEV program obligations
in California are multiplied across other states that have adopted
California's ZEV program," CARB wrote in its statement of reasons for
amending the regulation at the time.

Back then, the only Section 177 states were New York, Massachusetts and
Vermont, all of which agreed to the travel provision as long as it sunset
for battery electric vehicles by 2012.

"The provision was added in 2003 to reflect the need to deploy these
vehicles as they were coming to market, to get them placed geographically
with infrastructure that could support them and allow for market expansion,"
said Elise Keddie, of ARB's Emissions Compliance, Automotive Regulations and
Science (ECARS) Division.

The decision made sense then. After all, Californians are known for being
more culturally environmentalist and tech savvy -- two attributes of
electric vehicles' early customers.

And unlike most states in 2003, California already had a charging network in
place from when General Motors had briefly sold its EV1 in the mid-1990s.
All the state had to do was retrofit the charging stations to adhere to new
plug standards.

"Infrastructure has always been the 

[EVDL] Utility Georgia Power offering $250 rebate on home EVSE install

[brucedp5 via EV]

% EVSE rebate is nice, but a GA EV tax credit would help %

http://nbc26.tv/2016/02/02/georgia-power-offering-incentives-to-install-electric-vehicle-charger-in-homes/
Georgia Power offering incentives to install electric vehicle charger in
homes
February 2, 2016

Georgia Power is offering an incentive to those who install an plug for
electric cars.

The company is offering a $250 rebate to install the 240 volt charger. They
estimate that it would cost about $.55 per gallon to charge, and the charger
would get you 40 miles per hour charged.

The goal is to get more people to ditch their gas powered vehicles. The
plug-ins can be installed in existing or newly constructed homes.
[© nbc26.tv]
...
https://www.georgiapower.com/about-energy/electric-vehicles/
 ... Georgia Power offers rebates on installing chargers in homes and
businesses and special rates for EV owners ...



http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/GA-Lawmaker-Margaret-Kaiser-wants-return-of-EV-tax-credits-tp4680138.html
GA Lawmaker Margaret Kaiser wants return of EV tax credits
Jan 30 2016
...
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-GA-lawmakers-battle-over-ending-or-expanding-EV-tax-credits-tp4673787.html
EVLN: GA lawmakers battle over ending or expanding EV tax credits
Feb 11, 2015
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/GA-Bill-to-Kill-EV-credits-Something-odd-is-going-on-here-tp4667940.html
GA Bill to Kill EV credits ... 
Feb 12, 2014




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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[EVDL] EVLN: GM,LG Bolt to replace the Spark EV

[brucedp5 via EV]

'Bolt EV will replace the electric Spark'

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102176_bolt-ev-powertrain-how-did-gm-and-lg-collaborate-on-design-production
Bolt EV Powertrain: How Did GM And LG Collaborate On Design, Production?
Feb 3, 2016  John Voelcker

[image  
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/mark-reuss-discusses-gm-lg-chem-partnership-on-bolt-ev-electric-car-photo-jeffrey-sauger-for-gm_100531144_l.jpg
(table meeting)  Mark Reuss discusses GM-LG Chem partnership on Bolt EV
electric car  photo: Jeffrey Sauger for GM
]

In last fall's runup to the launch of the production 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV
200-mile electric car, GM discussed working together with Korean corporate
giant LG on the Bolt's development.

Mark Reuss, GM’s head of global product development said in October that the
company's partnership with LG Chem was "unprecedented."

The cooperation was formally announced more than four years ago, in August
2011, by GM's then-CEO Dan Akerson and Juno Cho, president and chief
operating officer of LG Corp.

Since then, a few electric-car advocates have suggested that GM had
outsourced Bolt EV development wholesale to its Korean partner.

The transcript of an October media roundtable on the strategic
partnership--formally titled the "GM-LG Chevrolet Bolt EV Relationship
Announcement"--gives more detail on the balance of conceptual, design,
specification, testing, validation, and production responsibilities between
GM and LG.

GM designed the electric traction motor and the battery-control system, was
responsible for all integration of the powertrain into the vehicle itself,
and validated all systems.

LG Chem--which supplies lithium-ion cells from Holland, Michigan, for the
Chevrolet Volt [pih] and Spark EV, and the Cadillac ELR [pih] and CT6
Plug-In Hybrid--designed, engineered, and tested the Bolt EV's battery
system to performance and packaging specifications supplied by GM.

Other LG units designed and supplied certain other electronic components, as
well as the infotainment module for the Bolt EV. The companies include LG
Chem, LG Innotek, LG Display, and LG Electronics.

In South Korea, LG Electronics is investing more than $250 million in a
Korean facility to support development and manufacturing of components for
the Bolt EV, most notably the electric motor.

It will also manufacture the car's power electronics modules to
specifications mandated by GM.

Specifically, according to GM , LG Chem will manufacture and supply all of
the following systems:

Lithium-ion Battery Cells and Battery Pack
Battery Heater
Electric Drive Motor (GM design)
Power Inverter Module for DC-to-AC conversion (GM design)
Onboard Battery Charger
Electric Compressor for Climate-Control System
High-Power Distribution Module
Accessory Low-Power Module
Power Line Communication Module (for communication with DC quick-charging
station) 
Instrument Cluster
Infotainment System

That list includes parts and assemblies jointly designed by both companies.

[image] GM CEO Dan Akerson & Juno Cho, COO of LG Corp., agree to cooperate
on future electric vehicles

LG will deliver 11 unique components for the Bolt EV that it "worked closely
with GM in developing," according to Ken Chang, vice president of vehicle
components at LG Electronics.

That unit was set up two years ago to allow LG to supply vehicle powertrain
components, which it hadn't done previously--although it had long supplied
infotainment systems to the global auto industry.

According to Reuss and global electrification director Pam Fletcher at the
roundtable, the contract manufacturing model shifts some of the investment
needed to build and operate plants to produce those parts from GM to LG.

"We intend to do (better electric vehicles) better, more efficiently, and
more cost effectively than anybody else can," Reuss said.

Reuss called the two companies' partnership "a different kind of
OEM-supplier relationship" that was an "expansion" of the collaborative work
that had started in 2008.

That was when GM awarded LG Chem the cell contract for what became the 2011
Chevrolet Volt [pih], and resulted in LG and GM "working side by side to
develop battery technology that is now the envy of the industry," in his
words.

That process "was a true collaborative effort from the beginning," he
summarized, "one that set aside the traditional model of product
development."

LG's various units, he concluded, are "truly helping us to get to the
promised land on batteries and battery-electric vehicles."

More specific details came from Pam Fletcher, who reinforced the
side-by-side collaborative nature of the development process.

The collaboration extended to "defining what will this vehicle be,
everything from how we are going to package it, what size it should be, what
kind of performance it should have," she said, while staying focused on
features that would prove most appealing to buyers.

During development, GM's small-vehicle engineering team worked from its
Korean unit (the 

[EVDL] EVLN: Interoperability Could Spark EV Wars

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://m.industryweek.com/supplier-relationships/interoperability-could-spark-electric-car-wars
Interoperability Could Spark Electric Car Wars
Feb 03, 2016  Daron Gifford, Partner, Plante Moran

[image  
http://m.industryweek.com/site-files/industryweek.com/files/imagecache/medium_img/uploads/2016/02/electric-car.jpg
(European style public EVSE)  Interoperability issues such as different
charging systems affect not only consumers, but also auto parts
manufacturers, who may have to place expensive bets on competing
technologies.
]

With electric car technologies far from decided, auto parts manufacturers
face challenging decisions to commit to one project or another – or face the
risk of sitting on the sidelines.

Ever have your iPhone battery die out and only find Android charging cords
nearby? Wait until electric cars become more prevalent on the road.  Each
manufacturer has different standards for connectivity for charging. Tesla’s
superchargers, for instance, are incompatible with other electric vehicles.

And that’s only one part of what may be an evolution-slowing shock for
vehicles that are becoming ever-more digital: auto parts interoperability.
Software systems today for cars may run on different platforms with
potential consequences ranging from inefficient (locating replacement parts)
to unsafe (if self-driving vehicles need to communicate with each other).

Not only will interoperability issues affect consumers, but also auto parts
manufacturers, who may have to place expensive bets on competing
technologies.

Of course, part of any leading company’s marching plans includes inventing a
dominant technology – one that uses its proprietary systems and unique parts
to corner a market. This is what made Microsoft dominant in PCs and
enterprise software, and what made IBM’s OS obsolete.

Technology wars have existed for eons. If you’re a baby boomer or older,
you'll recall standards wars such as VHS vs. Betamax. Back the wrong horse
in that race, and you can lose big. Even earlier, radio, television and
video recordings had technology compatibility issues. And little more than a
century ago, Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla fought a legendary battle over
electricity standards.

Today, the auto industry is going through, arguably, its greatest era of
innovation ever in decades. The race to build and market self-driving
vehicles as well as so-called connected cars – with operating systems that
resemble smart phones, with apps for everything from entertainment to
digital diagnostics – has lured technology giants such as Google and Apple,
as well as Elon Musk’s Tesla into the automotive business.

This means a time of both promise and peril for auto parts manufacturers.
With reports that Apple’s so-called Project Titan aims to have a car on the
road by 2019 and test drives of Google’s driverless car already in the news,
makers of vehicle parts or systems will face a decision to commit to one
project or another – or face the risk of sitting on the sidelines.

It’s important to remember that, in one sense, the question of
interoperability is as old as the automobile itself, even if it wasn’t
always described in those terms. At the dawn of the 20th century, for
example, the Stanley Steamer was a popular vehicle that competed with the
internal combustion engine made by Henry Ford and others. Running on steam –
drivers sometimes stopped to fill up their boiler from the roadside troughs
used by horses – it was a cheap way for Sunday drivers to navigate short
distances.

But improvements in gasoline-powered cars – especially the electric starter,
a major improvement on the difficult crank needed to get the Stanley Steamer
going – made a once-innovative car obsolete. Today, a handful of antique
collectors, starved for replacement parts, struggle to keep their
century-old models on the road.

Since then, later technologies like the Wankel rotary engine popularized by
Mazda in the 1970s faded due to problems with fuel economy, emissions and
other issues. Every major change – such as the replacement of leaded
gasoline with unleaded fuels – has created headaches for vehicle owners and
for parts suppliers. (I’ll save discussing diesel engines for a day when
Volkswagen is not in the news).

But the computer age, with smart chips and wireless communications, has
raised the stakes for interoperability in cars. A decade ago, The National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) estimated that the automotive
industry wasted $5 billion annually due to the lack of interoperability. And
for years, the automotive industry actually has established an organization,
the Automotive Industry Action Group (AIAG) to focus on standards between
OEMs and suppliers.

Google has already announced partnerships with firms such as Continental AG,
Robert Bosch, ZF and LG Electronics for its self-driving car.  Rumors have
it that they are in discussions with Ford as well. Apple, on the other hand,
is known for its secrecy and exercising 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

This could not be further from the real truth.  You can't get a very good deal 
on a new Leaf Lease.  You can however get a  5 thousand dollar discount on used 
Leafs or off lease cars..  I bought a 2013 vehicle near pristine for 14k.  18 k 
would be the price I'd have to pay for my 2012. Minus 5k that is still 13 
thousand for a year older with 39k and a degraded battery pack and a 3.3kw 
charger vs. the 2013 with a 6.6 charger. The 2013 has a better battery pack 
since it only has 2600 miles on it...yes 2600.  No typo.  I could have gotten a 
22k mile vehicle(2013) for 10k.  So adjustments have been made.  You will 
simply pay more for a 2016 with extended range. Much less for a used Leaf.  
Plus Nissan is committed to a replacement pack for 5500 dollars.  A used Leaf 
2013 or newer is the best deal.  Stay away from 2012 and 2011 models.  Seems 
the battery packs are not as good as 2013 on.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue Feb 09 08:08:55 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> Plus Nissan is committed to a replacement pack for 5500 dollars.  

I wonder if it will be possible to just go to a Nissan Dealership and just buy 
a "replacement" pack...


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I AM driving a Smart ED and I too thought that sounded a bit fishy and I 
too disagree that regular cycling is "good" for the batteries.


BUT one thing that sets Smart apart is that the battery is rented 
(optionally but most folks choose it). I'm leasing my Smart and I have 
to send two checks every month: one to Mercedes Benz leasing for the car 
and a second one to Daimler for the battery rent. If there's ever a 
problem with the battery they have to install a replacement for "free". 
Nothing says it has to be new although I would be upset if it had 
significantly less capacity than the old one. If they really keep a 
stock of batteries on the shelf to satisfy rental replacement then 
perhaps it does make sense to get some money out of them by using them 
for this purpose. That assumes, of course, that it's easy for them to 
pull the batteries out of the power-plant to install in my car.


--Rick

On 02/09/2016 03:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


  To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular
cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and
discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer
from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects.


Huh?  Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or
'cyclised') while in storage?   Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70%
SOC?

The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the
battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted
to grid leveling service.

Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is
about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round.

I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you.

It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need
a new battery, I can't have one.  Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one
that's been doing grid leveling for some time already.  Are they going to
give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life?

Something smells kind of foul here.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Backlash begins> We'll all pay to charge others' electric cars

[via EV]

Isn't this the same criticism that you made?

 Original Message 
Subject: [EVDL] Backlash begins> We'll all pay to charge others' electric cars
From: brucedp5 via EV 
Date: Feb 8, 2016 4:30 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
CC: 



% Anti-plugin hate begins> Ratepayers paying for Utility EVSE %

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-CA-Utilities-Installing-public-EVSE-BAD-for-ratepayers-tp4680232.html
]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/electric-703041-cars-charge.html
Letters: Shock at paying for electric car charging stations
Feb. 8, 2016  

Re: “We’ll all pay to charge others’ electric cars” (Opinion, Feb. 4): I
read Peter Ferrara’s article regarding Southern California Edison’s plan to
build 1,500 electric vehicle charging stations and how the cost will be
added to our utility bills.

We don’t drive electric cars, so why should we be penalized for those who
do? California wants everyone to drive an electric car, but then complains
when those electric vehicles produce no gas taxes.

It is bad enough that they want to charge mileage for using your car; now we
are penalized on our electric bill. We are very conservative in our
household with water, electric, gas and the like because we are on a budget.
I strongly oppose being billed for energy that is going to someone else’s
car. Let those who use electric vehicles pay for the electric charging
stations. Put it on their utility bill, not mine. I was born in California
but, frankly, I am sick and tired of being gouged because of others. No one
gets to vote on this? What has happened to our once-wonderful state?
 -Beverly Ulvan  Irvine [CA]

• • •

As ably pointed out by Peter Ferrara (“We’ll all pay to charge others’
electric cars,” Opinion, Feb. 4), California’s middle class is once again
getting the short end of the stick. The billionaires and millionaires who
buy electric cars like Tesla and Fisker are subsidized by the taxpayers
through government grants to the companies and subsidies to purchasers. Now
the middle class is being asked to pay for the billionaires and millionaires
to charge their cars. All this compliments of the progressive Democrats
running this state. It makes one wonder where Bernie Sanders stands on this
issue.
 -Robert Helfand  Laguna Niguel [CA] ...
[© 2016 Orange County Register]
...
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/california-702698-state-electric.html
We'll all pay to charge others' electric cars
Feb. 4, 2016  PETER J. FERRARA ... California Public Utilities Commission
approved Jan. 14 a proposal for Southern California Edison to build 1,500
electric vehicle charging stations ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

>  To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular
> cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and
> discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer
> from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects. 

Huh?  Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or 
'cyclised') while in storage?   Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70% 
SOC?  

The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the 
battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted 
to grid leveling service.  

Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is 
about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round. 

I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you.

It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need 
a new battery, I can't have one.  Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one 
that's been doing grid leveling for some time already.  Are they going to 
give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life?

Something smells kind of foul here.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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[EVDL] I need the secrets of the J1772. Avcon to J1772 DIY

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

   I thought the 90 dollar price of a Male connector was just too much so I 
bought 5 from China.  Doestar.  Very nice units.  I need to find out how to 
wire the internal switch.  I think it's the proximity. I thought I was so smart 
that I had star drivers to take it apart but after doing so I found in the 
connector they have the evil triangle  security screws protecting the pins.  I 
guess I'll have to go to harbor freight and buy the 100 security bits for  6 
bucks. If there is a video or internet instructions or if someone could just 
give me a few hints that would be great.  One guy soldered the connections.  I 
don't like doing that.  Heat is your enemy.  Lawrence Rhodes... I have 4 
connectors and would like 75 dollars each.  
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Re: [EVDL] I need the secrets of the J1772. Avcon to J1772 DIY

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi Lawrence,
Do you come to Silicon Valley often?
I have done at least 5 conversions AVCON => pistol and I have always soldered 
the pins.
Make sure you have a soldering iron that can deliver enough heat to work fast 
enough that the solder does not wick up into the wire too far.
Also, I pre-tin the wire separately, then I heat up the pin and fill the pin's 
cavity about 2/3 full of molten solder, then I insert the pre-tinned wire so 
all solder flows together and then I let it cool, this avoids prolonged heating 
of the wire and the wicking problem.
The J1772 standard drawing has it all layed out, the switch is supposed to 
already have a resistor attached and I also liked to reference the conversion 
pictorial that is shown on I believe Rush's site of a conversion.
Then the proof of the pudding is in the eating - measure the voltages on the 
plug of your car and on the pistol before plugging in the first time. 
Everything is referenced to ground.
In fact, I need to do one more conversion of the DS-100 that I have that I have 
no pistol for, I only have a cord with attached plug but I will keep that for 
other projects. So, I would need one more plug.
Do you fancy a mini Maker Fair in my garage?

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 6:08 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] I need the secrets of the J1772. Avcon to J1772 DIY



   I thought the 90 dollar price of a Male connector was just too much so I 
bought 5 from China.  Doestar.  Very nice units.  I need to find out how to 
wire the internal switch.  I think it's the proximity. I thought I was so smart 
that I had star drivers to take it apart but after doing so I found in the 
connector they have the evil triangle  security screws protecting the pins.  I 
guess I'll have to go to harbor freight and buy the 100 security bits for  6 
bucks. If there is a video or internet instructions or if someone could just 
give me a few hints that would be great.  One guy soldered the connections.  I 
don't like doing that.  Heat is your enemy.  Lawrence Rhodes... I have 4 
connectors and would like 75 dollars each.  
-- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I suspect you will have to provide a core.  But why.  You can get a wrecked 
Leaf for next to nothing.  Pull that pack out and use it as you wish.  Lawrence

  From: John Lussmyer <cou...@casadelgato.com>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>; Lawrence Rhodes 
<primobass...@sbcglobal.net> 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:22 AM
 Subject: Re: EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values
   
On Tue Feb 09 08:08:55 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> Plus Nissan is committed to a replacement pack for 5500 dollars.  

I wonder if it will be possible to just go to a Nissan Dealership and just buy 
a "replacement" pack...


--

Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...

  
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 02/09/2016 11:22 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Tue Feb 09 08:08:55 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

Plus Nissan is committed to a replacement pack for 5500 dollars.


I wonder if it will be possible to just go to a Nissan Dealership and just buy a 
"replacement" pack...




Just like buying a starter battery, you'll pay more if you are not 
trading in a "core" or used battery.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 02/09/2016 12:49 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

You can get a wrecked Leaf for next to nothing.  Pull that pack out and use it 
as you wish.  Lawrence


To put a number on "next to nothing":

I bought a wrecked leaf for $3200 + auction fees & delivery of around 
$4100 total price. (I believe this was at the very low end of the 
wrecked leaf price range...)




Jay
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