Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread ROBERT via EV 
I think it can now be stated that the onboard charger will adjust to the output 
capacity limit of the EVSE.  Therefore, only purchase an EVSE that is certified 
to the J1772 standard.  Thanks for the answer to the question.


From: gizm...@gmail.com <gizm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 2:12 PM
To: Peter Gabrielsson via EV; ROBERT
Subject: RE: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase


I can throttle my Kia Soul EV all the way down to 6A on either 120V or 240V 
input. It will also charge at up to 20A (the limit of my EVSE) on either 
voltage. As has been posted, that is one of the main points of the J1772 
standard. I have not heard of any commercially available plug-in OBC not able 
to be throttled back by the EVSE.



Sent from my Windows 10 phone



From: Peter Gabrielsson via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 13:44
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>; 
ROBERT<mailto:bhensle...@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase



No, it's horsepucky. The car will throttle back to what the evse can supply.



On Sep 24, 2016 13:08, "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:



> The statement shown below was posted.  Can someone answer the question

> does a 6.6KW charger demand all or nothing?

>

>

>  I would think that all well designed, UL or CE listed chargers are

> designed for an input voltage of 100 - 264VAC (sometimes referred to as

> universal or international input).  If the 6.6 KW charger is a demand all

> charger, the input current must increase at 120VAC vs 240VAC.  For example,

> Output KW = 6.6 KW , Input voltage = 240VAC, Efficiency = 80%.  Then input

> current = (6.6KW / 0.8) /240VAC = 34A.  For 120VAC input, the input current

> = (6.6KW/0.8)/120VAC = 69A.  This is a rough calculation  I know have

> have not included power factor, current limiting, etc; however, it shows my

> point.  If I connect a 6.6KW charger to 120VAC, the input current increases

> because the output is fixed.  This being said, I think some if not all

> onboard EV chargers adjust the charger out based on the input voltage thus

> maintaining a 16A maximum input for 120VAC.  I think this is the function

> of the 1KZ output signal.  It tells the car charger the maximum current it

> can drawn from the EVSE.  Th

>  e charger then adjust its PWM duty cycle to limit the output power of the

> charger.  This means that a car with a 6.6KW charger connected to 120VAC

> EVSE only outputs approximately 120VAC * 16A * 0.8 eff = 1.5 KW.

>

>

> 

> From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dennis via EV <

> ev@lists.evdl.org>

> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:58 AM

> To: 'Willie2'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'

> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

>

> I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty

> cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device

> you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.

>

> Bill

>

> -Original Message-

> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV

> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM

> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List

> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

>

> On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> > Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern

> > EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence

> > Rhodes

> It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or

> nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw

> charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would

> fail

> to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?

>

>

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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread via EV 
I can throttle my Kia Soul EV all the way down to 6A on either 120V or 240V 
input. It will also charge at up to 20A (the limit of my EVSE) on either 
voltage. As has been posted, that is one of the main points of the J1772 
standard. I have not heard of any commercially available plug-in OBC not able 
to be throttled back by the EVSE.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Peter Gabrielsson via EV
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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV 
No, it's horsepucky. The car will throttle back to what the evse can supply.

On Sep 24, 2016 13:08, "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> The statement shown below was posted.  Can someone answer the question
> does a 6.6KW charger demand all or nothing?
>
>
>  I would think that all well designed, UL or CE listed chargers are
> designed for an input voltage of 100 - 264VAC (sometimes referred to as
> universal or international input).  If the 6.6 KW charger is a demand all
> charger, the input current must increase at 120VAC vs 240VAC.  For example,
> Output KW = 6.6 KW , Input voltage = 240VAC, Efficiency = 80%.  Then input
> current = (6.6KW / 0.8) /240VAC = 34A.  For 120VAC input, the input current
> = (6.6KW/0.8)/120VAC = 69A.  This is a rough calculation  I know have
> have not included power factor, current limiting, etc; however, it shows my
> point.  If I connect a 6.6KW charger to 120VAC, the input current increases
> because the output is fixed.  This being said, I think some if not all
> onboard EV chargers adjust the charger out based on the input voltage thus
> maintaining a 16A maximum input for 120VAC.  I think this is the function
> of the 1KZ output signal.  It tells the car charger the maximum current it
> can drawn from the EVSE.  Th
>  e charger then adjust its PWM duty cycle to limit the output power of the
> charger.  This means that a car with a 6.6KW charger connected to 120VAC
> EVSE only outputs approximately 120VAC * 16A * 0.8 eff = 1.5 KW.
>
>
> 
> From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dennis via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:58 AM
> To: 'Willie2'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase
>
> I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty
> cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device
> you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.
>
> Bill
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase
>
> On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern
> > EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence
> > Rhodes
> It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or
> nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw
> charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would
> fail
> to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread ROBERT via EV 
The statement shown below was posted.  Can someone answer the question does a 
6.6KW charger demand all or nothing?


 I would think that all well designed, UL or CE listed chargers are designed 
for an input voltage of 100 - 264VAC (sometimes referred to as universal or 
international input).  If the 6.6 KW charger is a demand all charger, the input 
current must increase at 120VAC vs 240VAC.  For example, Output KW = 6.6 KW , 
Input voltage = 240VAC, Efficiency = 80%.  Then input current = (6.6KW / 0.8) 
/240VAC = 34A.  For 120VAC input, the input current = (6.6KW/0.8)/120VAC = 69A. 
 This is a rough calculation  I know have have not included power factor, 
current limiting, etc; however, it shows my point.  If I connect a 6.6KW 
charger to 120VAC, the input current increases because the output is fixed.  
This being said, I think some if not all onboard EV chargers adjust the charger 
out based on the input voltage thus maintaining a 16A maximum input for 120VAC. 
 I think this is the function of the 1KZ output signal.  It tells the car 
charger the maximum current it can drawn from the EVSE.  Th
 e charger then adjust its PWM duty cycle to limit the output power of the 
charger.  This means that a car with a 6.6KW charger connected to 120VAC EVSE 
only outputs approximately 120VAC * 16A * 0.8 eff = 1.5 KW.



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dennis via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:58 AM
To: 'Willie2'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty
cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device
you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern
> EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence
> Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would fail
to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?


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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
The whole reason for the pilot signal (besides giving the
connected-charging signaling) is exactly to throttle charging to what
the *station* is capable of supplying, so any EV not accepting a station
that can supply only 16A when the EV would rather charge at 32A, is
contrary the spirit of the standard. It might be that there exist EVs
which do not follow the standard, but I don't think a Nissan Leaf for
example would have trouble throttling back. I do know that EMW (Electric
Motor Werks) has tested throttling on many cars, as that is part of the
solution they supply for demand control, leading to EV owners earning
money by deferring charging. The way all charging stations throttle is
by reducing the duty cycle on the pilot or by completely stopping
charging for periods.
I read the measurements they did on throttling back a Tesla during
overnight charging - they found that at the minium charging current (I
believe 6A) the Tesla battery did not gain any charge during an
overnight session, because apparently the Tesla used almost all of the
1.4kW power delivered for running its circuits and possibly for
temperature control.
This means that chharging faster is often slightly more efficient
although I have seen measurements of the Leaf, clarifying that it hardly
makes a difference in efficiency whether it charges at L1 or L2.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern
EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence
Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or 
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw 
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would 
fail to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?


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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Bill Dennis via EV 
I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty
cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device
you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern 
> EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence 
> Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would fail
to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?


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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Willie2 via EV 

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern EV's.  
Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or 
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw 
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would 
fail to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?



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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern EV's.  
Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence Rhodes
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160924

2016-09-24 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-4-5k-Father-son-DIY-69-Ghia-EV-conversion-named-Karmann-Electra-td4683822.html
EVLN: $4.5k Father-son DIY '69 Ghia EV conversion named “Karmann Electra”
Mechanical engineering student converts a 1969 VW Karmann Ghia into an
all-electric classic ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-341-1mph-Venturi-VBB-3-Electric-Car-Land-Speed-Record-Set-td4683823.html
EVLN: 341.1mph Venturi VBB-3 Electric Car Land Speed Record Set
The Venturi VBB-3 has claimed a new land speed record for an electric
vehicle after setting an average flying mile at the Bonneville salt flats of
341.1 mph ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Moloughney-compares-pih-s-gt-2014-i3-REx-60Ah-vs-2017-i3-REx-94Ah-td4683824.html
EVLN: Moloughney compares pih's> 2014 i3 REx (60Ah) vs 2017 i3 REx (94Ah)
I was able to secure one of the first 2017 BMW i3 REx cars that made its way
into US ... My car only averages about 60 to 65 miles of electric range when
the ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVjobs-BYD-Tripling-the-Size-of-its-Lancaster-CA-EV-Factory-amp-hiring-td4683826.html
EVjobs: BYD Tripling the Size of its Lancaster-CA EV Factory & hiring
... expand its EV (electric vehicle) plant in Lancaster, California, 3X'ing
the size of ... Based on its fire-safe, fully recyclable and long cycle
battery technology, the ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVangel-about-gt-Leaf-Telsa-S-60-Spark-e-Golf-mild-EVSE-rage-Goog-crash-amp-Super-EVSE-td4683827.html
EVangel-about> Leaf, Telsa-S 60, Spark, e-Golf, mild EVSE-rage, Goog-crash&
Super-EVSE




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.0catch.com}

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[EVDL] EVangel-about> Leaf, Telsa-S 60, Spark, e-Golf, mild EVSE-rage, Goog-crash& Super-EVSE

2016-09-24 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


A few days ago, I noticed a blue Leaf parked a couple of parking spots over
as I got out my ride. It was well kept, and possibly a newer model, but the
owner left quickly before I could talk to him. I could see where he was
headed, to a popular busy restaurant next door to my destination store. I
was hoping I would be able to talk with him, before I left.

As hobbled my way through the parking lot toward a store, I noticed a
fingernail-red Tesla-S 60 EV parked in the front row (near the stores'
entrances). It was gorgeous and glorious to see, parked there right up front
for everyone to view, with its shiny washed and waxed appearance.

It particularly stood out against all the unwashed cars parked along side it
(remember there is a severe drought condition in CA, so it is sort of a
'thing' to show your water-conservation support by not washing your car as
religiously as was done in the past when rainfall was normal. Back then
neighborhood kids would finger write 'wash me' on your car if it was dirty,
but today its hardly done).

As I was admiring the bright red Tesla-S from a far, yet close enough to
talk to a woman helping her elderly mother out of a van parked next to the
Tesla-S (I am careful that my large-size appearance doesn't spook the
public, before I can get a chance to yak with them).

I smiled and asked the woman as she paused to wait for her Mom to start
moving out of the van, "So, that's your bright red Tesla?" (pointing to it.
I do not stress the EV, or model part, as most people would have walked by
the Tesla with nary a care as to what it is, let alone that it is an EV).

She smiled back for a polite quick moment and said, "Yea sure, ... I wish
..." and then she went back to focusing on helping her Mom. That's all the
time I knew I was going to be allowed to yak with her (she had a task to
do), but I figured my words would carry in their minds (and likely they
would now look at it more as they moved to and from the stores. And that
thought of a Tesla would stay longer in their minds if I would be seeing
them inside the same store I was headed to (us old people, her Mom and I,
have the same interests).


Later, when I was done, and heading back to unload my purchases into my
ride, I remembered what I had forgotten to buy, and had to go back to the
store. I took solace in that the beautiful blue Leaf was still parked there,
so my chances of talking to the driver were still good. 

When I was leaving my store again is when I saw the Leaf driver heading out
with his bag of grab-a-quick-bite to-go food. I spoke from a far to him and
said. "You must be the Leaf driver ... (?)" He smiled and looked up. I asked
if I could have brief minute for a question about his EV (suddenly he was
less focused on getting back to his desk at work to eat his food, and wanted
to talk about his Leaf).

It turns out this was the second Leaf he was leasing. He had just leased
another one, after his first lease had expired. This was a newer model (so
he was happier about that and possibly why he is leasing rather than buying,
so he can continue driving newer models). He did not know what kW charger he
had on board, but said it was the least-expensive trim (likely his was 3kW). 

At that point, I figured I had take enough of his time, and left him with
the thought of him looking up plugshare (yet another plugin driver that did
not know about plugshare: how it shows all the EVSE brands, has comments
from drivers keeping its listings up to date ... yadda, yadda, yadda ... ).
We parted with him happy his chat about his EV was quick, so he could Leaf
his way back to work with a still-hot lunch.


As I was heading back to my ride, there were three senior gals getting out
of a Corolla (ice) that looked like they were heading to a nearby fabric
store. I quickly stopped and stood looking at them with my hands a little
out stretched, saying "Now you look like the type that should be driving a
bright, fingernail red Tesla!" ... (then doing a little head slide, I said)
"You're too hot to be seen driving around in that" (pointing to the
Corolla). They giggled (like young girls), looking at each other. 

One said "A Tesla, where is one?" I slightly leaned over down to her height
so she could see down my long arm with finger pointing at the Tesla-S, and I
said, "That one there looks like your car". She exclaimed, " I want to see
it" and headed toward it. The others quickly followed after her (like girls
walking together). As they were leaving one asked, "How much are they?" I
said, "They're on sale now for 66,000. That's cheap, you can get two!" They
giggled off following the curious one that just had to see a Tesla. 
[ref http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/09/new-lower-cost-tesla-model-s-60/ ]

I had just used someone else's EV for my EVangelizing purposes without
causing any harm to it. Just being parked there was a very useful tool for
me to EV-enlighten some people that have only heard the word 'Tesla', but
had never even seen

[EVDL] EVjobs: BYD Tripling the Size of its Lancaster-CA EV Factory & hiring

2016-09-24 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


http://www.livetradingnews.com/byd-otcmktbyddf-triple-size-california-factory-16180.html#.V-DcBFqAOho
BYD ... to Triple Size of California Factory
September 19, 2016  Paul Ebeling

[images  
http://www.livetradingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/800px-Lithium-Ion_Battery_for_BMW_i3_-_Battery_Pack-701x511.jpg
battery_pack

http://www.livetradingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/wdr-620-byd-bus-ap-nick-ut.jpg
byd-bus
]

Chinese car, bus and battery maker BYD (OTCMKT:BYDDF) announced recently
that it will expand its EV (electric vehicle) plant in Lancaster,
California, 3X’ing the size of its facility, employment and production
capability in next 3 years.

Stella Li, President of BYD America, said at a groundbreaking ceremony last
week that the world’s largest manufacturer of EV’s will continue to invest
in Lancaster and provide more development opportunities for local residents.

BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams”, is the world’s largest
manufacturer of rechargeable lithium-ion batteries. Based on its fire-safe,
fully recyclable and long cycle battery technology, the company has expanded
into other businesses, including automobiles, buses, trucks, utility
vehicles and energy storage facilities.

“We are proud to produce efficient, reliable electric trucks and buses in
California that help boost the local economy with well-paid manufacturing
and engineering jobs,” Ms. Li said, after recalling why the company had
decided to set up the factory in the City of Lancaster in Y 2013, a Southern
California community of more than 156,000 people.

Lancaster boasts more than 350 days of sunshine per year, making it the
ideal place to pioneer new solar energy technologies.

Li also emphasized the support that local government and skillful American
engineers had given the company.

The BYD’s coach and bus vehicle plant in Lancaster, which covers 8-K sqm and
is able to deliver 300 Zero-emission vehicles every year, has already
employed more than 300 people for production and customer service.

According to the new plan, the facility will expand to 37-K sqm, 3X’ing the
number of its employees to 1,000 and its assembling capability to 1,000
vehiclesper year.

“Through our growing partnership with BYD, the local economy has already
realized a significant boost,” said Lancaster Mayor Rex Parris, “in
addition, reaching Zero Net Energy status is at the forefront of our city,
and BYD is helping us achieve this vision faster.”

The Shenzhen-based company has more than 160,000 employees globally and a
regional HQ in Los Angeles, California

The company’s electric bus, supported by its solar panels, LED lighting and
energy-efficient technologies, is able to run over 248 kilometers after a
single charge, which is among the longest in the world.
[© 2016 HEFFX.com]




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[EVDL] Duosida or 3kW : Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread brucedp5 via EV 
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Another-J1772-L2-purchase-td4683809.html#a4683820
>Peter wrote:  No experience with the Duosida but I saw no UL or other
agency marks on it.<
]

He has a point. If the structure you are charging in is insured, and there
is a fire, insurers and or the court will want to see the safety
certification (mark) of the product (UL, CE, etc.)

(I have no experience with the Duosida either)
After some research (digging), I found that L2-3kW EVSE is:
- made in China

- comes in either a 200-240VAC model, or a 120 -240VAC model (I would opt
for the latter so I could carry with me more charging flexibility: able to
charge off L2 when at Meemaw's,  or L1 when at the airport's long term
parking lot, etc.)
http://www.yourdictionary.com/memaw

- some resellers say it is safety approved (but I would contact that seller
to ensure you also receive some proof it is safety approved/certified - it
shows it is CE certified on the product manual, etc.).


My quick/brief search found non-amazon choices:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/172333950201?rmvSB=true
Super Quality Level 2 charger 16 Amp 220-240V 10-30 Dryer Plug + Free Dash
Cam
$265+(free-ship-in-US, verify this with your zip)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/152232098561?rmvSB=true
Dostar Duosida Electric Car Charger EVSE 120v & 240v 16 amp J1772 plug PHEV
NEW
$326, US$267+ $58.33ship  (*reseller offers different plug options)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282181168873?rmvSB=true
Level 2 EV Car Charger Duosida 220-240 Volt 16 Amp, Evse, L2, 27+ Ft Cord,
3.8KW
$320, US $274+ $46ship (*reseller states: Compatible with all EVSE standards
and recommended practices, including SAE J1772, NEC 625, UL 2231 and UL
2594)


Else, here are some other EVSE searches to explore (verify they are L2-3kW):

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_nkw=ev+charger&_sop=15

http://www.google.com/search?q=ev+charger=UTF-8=UTF-8#tbm=shop=ev%20charger=vw%3Al%2Cmr%3A1%2Cp_ord%3Ap%2Cprice%3A1%2Cppr_min%3A265%2Cppr_max%3A300

https://www.google.com/search?q=Duosida=vw:l,ss:9,p_ord:p=shop




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Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries

2016-09-24 Thread George Tyler via EV 
Accelerated life testing is a science on it's own. A friend of mine has made a 
career out of it, runs a network of Labs for a huge medical electronics 
company. We worked for the same company twice through the years, he did the 
testing for a lot of the electronic products I designed. What separates the men 
from the boys is creating test plans that DO work the same as real life, if you 
can't do this it is a waist of time or worse. You create a model, test it, and 
old when it aligns with reality do you do the actual testing. Say you model is 
to run the product at elevated temperature, you run one at ambient +20 deg, 
another at +30. +40 etc etc, then measure time to failure, draw a graph. Where 
the graph suddenly take off for the sky is the point you must keep below. There 
is much more to it as well.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen via EV
Sent: 24 September, 2016 2:09 AM
To: Michael Ross; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries

Rarely what one can get for free is useless. People even sleep in cardboard 
boxes.
So is the idea to push forward the responsibility to recycle? This is no 
business per se. If something it's just smarter use of existing resources.

What it comes to better electrolytes.. that is HARD! The testing cycle to 
confirm lifetime and usability is way too long. Accelerated aging tests are not 
the same at all to real life use. While I have to admit I was wholly impressed 
by the Hydro Quebec battery research lab. Boy do they have toys there! :D 
(droool) Advancements in R are available as we can now see more deeper and 
more accurately with color-SEM and such.

Does it not go without saying that one should not use cell-murder (tm)? BMS has 
to be done right.

-Jukka

P.S.- Dear Santa. I would like to have a $10bn to research more. Thank You!

2016-09-23 14:47 GMT+02:00 Michael Ross via EV :

> Advances in testing are just beginning to drive more effective research.
> For example tiny adjustments in electrolyte components can yield big 
> improvements. The testing is faster and provides more granular 
> investigations.
>
> Re LFP you mistreat them and they die a quick death, but stationary 
> apps you can treat them well.
>
> EV battery packs may not be optimal compared to purpose built 
> stationary packs but they are far from useless.
>
> Mike Ross
>
> On Sep 23, 2016 4:43 AM, "Jukka Järvinen"  wrote:
>
> > Usually the internal resistance is growing much faster than the loss 
> > of capacity. So if you use the pack in very low power application 
> > you will
> be
> > able to use the pack for some time (several years). This is for LCO, 
> > LMO and NMC. Maybe NCA too (cannot say for sure yet as I do not have 
> > usage
> data
> > from those yet).
> >
> > Basically the combination of low voltage chemistry, cool temperature 
> > during use and shallow cycles will provide long life for the cells. 
> > LFP
> has
> > at least 5 to 10 years more calendar life than those mentioned above.
> Then
> > again LTO-cells should have even slower rate of unhoped side 
> > reactions at the chemistry level compared to LFP. But LTO has hard 
> > time to compete against LFP net cost. Which is dirty cheap.
> >
> > Stationary batteries are designed for the use. Meaning their cost to 
> > buffer each kWh and provide power is much much less than the EV type
> cells.
> > Currently for large utility scale units the cost to buffer is around 
> > one cent per kWh.
> >
> > -Jukka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-09-23 8:45 GMT+02:00 Michael Ross via EV :
> >
> >> I believe batteries, and Li-ion as well as future designs will not
> degrade
> >> much for a decade and more when properly managed. Understand that
> 'Lithium
> >> batteries" covers a large and disparate group of designs. So, any
> comment
> >> can be quibbled over.
> >>
> >> What is known now, a loss of 85% would probably be accompanied by
> physical
> >> and chemical damage that might render them unreliable at greater loss.
> But
> >> certainly Li-ion if managed well could be useful down to 30% SOC.
> >>
> >> The rub here is "well managed." Proper management will depend on 
> >> the
> exact
> >> electrode and electrolyte chemistry, the construction of the cell, 
> >> temperature of operation and storage, particularly at high SOC%. 
> >> and so on.
> >>
> >> Anything we say is dependent on a host of variables.  I think the 
> >> body
> of
> >> knowledge will grow and all these difficulties will drop in
> significance.
> >>
> >> You did not say in what application the degradation to 70% SOC 
> >> would
> occur
> >> but safe to assume you meant in cars. Tesla already committed to
> creating
> >> rid based applications for "degraded" batteries. Their belief is 
> >> that stationary applications are far easier on the cells than 
> >> mobile and automotive apps. Allowing us to believe there