Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
Well, this [buying parts from whoever is cheapest] happens anyway. There are plenty of "after market" parts for just about every vehicle. I think the real issue with standard parts is the inflexibility it creates for new ideas. If you could predict what you would be doing for the next 10 or 20 years, you could have a standard. And that does happen for some things, like EVSEs. But really hard to pin down for something like a steering wheel. Peri If all manufacturers used standard parts, then when my Chevy breaks instead of going to Chevy, I go to whoever sells the part the cheapest. So Chevy either loses sales on spare parts, or they have to drop their price, which makes Ford drop their price, etc. etc. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
>> it would be nice if all the manufacturers standardised the skateboards >> into a few basic versions (compact, midsize, etc.) but this goes >> against their financial best interests, so I doubt it will happen >> anytime soon. > > Wouldn't such a design save them development costs, thus improving profits? > I don't see why that wouldn't be in their financial best interests, but I > may be missing something. If all manufacturers used standard parts, then when my Chevy breaks instead of going to Chevy, I go to whoever sells the part the cheapest. So Chevy either loses sales on spare parts, or they have to drop their price, which makes Ford drop their price, etc. etc. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
The testing approval occurred at about the same as Edison was taking it’s time in restoring power to parts of Los Angeles where lines were down, leading a County Supervisor, whose District was impacted, to oppose it, and to comment, “when you get into bed with Edison, you wake up with more than a good night’s sleep”. Yes, he really said it - I was there. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 3, 2021, at 7:14 PM, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: > > There are additional complications to consider, such as oversize loads on > those same roads, and consequences of crashes. If a crash knocks out a > catenary, I'd guess the safety fuse for that section of roadway would > blow...which then would stop any vehicles without at least some onboard > batteries. > > Railroads have a lot of control over the railcars traveling on their rail > lines. Highway departments have less control over highway vehicles. > > >> On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 21:06 Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >> >> There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in >> Los Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology. >> >> The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be >> connected for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate >> normally under whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas. >> >> There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that >> there were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system. >> If anyone is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there >> someplace. >> >> The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so. >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV >> wrote: >>> >>> What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea. >>> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer >>> >>> There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of >> emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to >> fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
There are additional complications to consider, such as oversize loads on those same roads, and consequences of crashes. If a crash knocks out a catenary, I'd guess the safety fuse for that section of roadway would blow...which then would stop any vehicles without at least some onboard batteries. Railroads have a lot of control over the railcars traveling on their rail lines. Highway departments have less control over highway vehicles. On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 21:06 Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in > Los Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology. > > The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be > connected for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate > normally under whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas. > > There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that > there were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system. > If anyone is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there > someplace. > > The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV > wrote: > > > > What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea. > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer > > > > There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of > emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to > fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test > of a third alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks as they > drive, using wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph mounted on the > cab. > > ... > > And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics > giant that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment > that has been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars. > > ... > > So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany > are short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. Their > purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real trucking > companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 20 trucks > will be using the systems in Germany. > > ... > > Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired > highway, or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German > truck traffic. > > ... > > But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead > cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or about > $5 million per mile. > > ... > > But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted > that batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging > times are dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of > infrastructure, vehicles and energy will decide what technology or > combination of technologies prevails,” the ministry said. > > ... > > The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough > power to drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is > another advantage of the catenary system: The eHighway could eliminate the > need for charging stops, important in the trucking industry where time is > money. > > > > - > > > > The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul > routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, it's > great to see this experiment happening. > > > > Peri > > > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/0485fc2a/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in Los Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology. The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be connected for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate normally under whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas. There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that there were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system. If anyone is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there someplace. The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea. > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer > > There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of emissions, > and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to fire up > electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test of a third > alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks as they drive, using > wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph mounted on the cab. > ... > And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics giant > that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment that has > been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars. > ... > So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany are > short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. Their > purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real trucking > companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 20 trucks will > be using the systems in Germany. > ... > Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired highway, > or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German truck traffic. > ... > But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead cables, > which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or about $5 million > per mile. > ... > But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted that > batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging times are > dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of infrastructure, vehicles > and energy will decide what technology or combination of technologies > prevails,” the ministry said. > ... > The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough power to > drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is another > advantage of the catenary system: The eHighway could eliminate the need for > charging stops, important in the trucking industry where time is money. > > - > > The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul > routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, it's > great to see this experiment happening. > > Peri > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] EVLN: EVs and the future of transport
Full article (LONG): https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/aug/03/lost-history-electric-car- future-transport or https://v.gd/44r42X Highly condensed excerpts: In the 1890s ... Horse-drawn vehicles had been in use for thousands of years, and it was hard to imagine life without them. But ... the drawbacks of using horses in densely populated cities were becoming ever more apparent. In particular, the accumulation of horse manure on the streets, and the associated stench, were impossible to miss ... To advocates of a newly emerging technology, the solution seemed obvious: get rid of horses and replace them with self-propelling motor vehicles, known at the time as horseless carriages ... this transition has been cited as evidence of the power of innovation ... it should instead be seen as a cautionary tale in the other direction: that what looks like a quick fix today may well end up having far-reaching and unintended consequences tomorrow ... ... in doing away with one set of environmental problems, cars introduced a whole set of new ones. The pollutants they emit are harder to see than horse manure, but are no less problematic ... Today, electric cars, charged using renewable energy, are seen as the logical way to address these concerns. But the debate about the merits of electric cars turns out to be as old as the automobile itself ... The failure of electric vehicles in the early 20th century, and the emergence of the internal combustion engine as the dominant form of propulsion, had a lot to do with liquid fuel providing far more energy per unit mass than a lead-acid battery can. But the explanation is not purely technical. It also has a psychological component. Buyers of private cars, then as now, did not want to feel limited by the range of an electric vehicle´s battery, and the uncertainty of being able to recharge it ... Lithium-ion batteries have made the switch to electric cars possible ... But it would not address other problems associated with cars, such as traffic congestion, road deaths or the inherent inefficiency of using a one- tonne vehicle to move one person to the shops ... The supply of lithium and cobalt needed to make batteries, and of the "rare earth" elements need to make electric motors, are already raising environmental and geopolitical questions ... The future of urban transport will not be based on a single technology, but on a diverse mixture of transport systems, knitted together by smartphone technology ... David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
Standardized parts means third parties making replacement parts without needing to license, removing a profit line for them. On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 18:50, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > On 2 Aug 2021 at 21:42, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > > > it would be nice if all the manufacturers standardised the skateboards > > into a few basic versions (compact, midsize, etc.) but this goes > > against their financial best interests, so I doubt it will happen > > anytime soon. > > Wouldn't such a design save them development costs, thus improving > profits? > I don't see why that wouldn't be in their financial best interests, but I > may be missing something. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the > present. > > -- Bill Watterson, "Calvin and Hobbes" > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- Robert "Anaerin" Johnston ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/4d133c54/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
I wanna see electrification of what's left of the US rail network this way. Seems like a no-brainer, but it's a big investment that will take a while to pay off. On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 12:27 PM EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > The subject looks like an auto-incorrection error. I think it's supposed > to > be "catenaries." (Bloody smartphones think they're smarter than they are.) > > From the Oxford Dictionary: > > Centenary: The hundredth anniversary of a significant event; a centennial. > > Catenary: A curve formed by a wire, rope, or chain hanging freely from two > points and forming a U shape. > > Also: https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Catenary > > > the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead > > cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or > > about $5 million per mile > > I may be missing something here, but wouldn't it be more economical to > promote more use of rail freight instead? Maybe even subsidize it? EU > rails are already electrified. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. > > -- Edward R Murrow > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/83b6e033/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
The subject looks like an auto-incorrection error. I think it's supposed to be "catenaries." (Bloody smartphones think they're smarter than they are.) >From the Oxford Dictionary: Centenary: The hundredth anniversary of a significant event; a centennial. Catenary: A curve formed by a wire, rope, or chain hanging freely from two points and forming a U shape. Also: https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Catenary > the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead > cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or > about $5 million per mile I may be missing something here, but wouldn't it be more economical to promote more use of rail freight instead? Maybe even subsidize it? EU rails are already electrified. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. -- Edward R Murrow = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Centenaries for trucks
What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test of a third alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks as they drive, using wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph mounted on the cab. ... And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics giant that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment that has been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars. ... So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany are short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. Their purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real trucking companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 20 trucks will be using the systems in Germany. ... Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired highway, or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German truck traffic. ... But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or about $5 million per mile. ... But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted that batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging times are dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of infrastructure, vehicles and energy will decide what technology or combination of technologies prevails,” the ministry said. ... The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough power to drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is another advantage of the catenary system: The eHighway could eliminate the need for charging stops, important in the trucking industry where time is money. - The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, it's great to see this experiment happening. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla changes
I disagree with the statement below. Tesla is innovating all the time. They have gone from a regular HVAC system to the octovalve system which is much more efficient. They are switching to the mega casting which removes a ton of parts. They also don’t even have model years because they are constantly improving their design. So I am not sure how you can say they haven’t changed since 2017. Sent from my iPhone > Tesla hasn't changed anything but software since 2017 in the drive unit. > If they do change something, I'm pretty confident they will keep the same > mechanicals, so it will be backwards compatible. The pack has gotten > larger in capacity, but mechanically the same. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
It worked for Johnny Cash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=060A15ELz00 :) On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 02:38 paul dove via EV wrote: > Interesting idea! The other issue with this approach is cost. Buying piece > parts one at a time will cost much more than buying a production car. > > > Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Sunday, August 1, 2021, 8:44 AM, Collin Kidder via EV < > ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > That does lead to another potential idea, though. What if an open > source design specifically called for OEM parts that *ARE* easily > available and cheap? This isn't so far-fetched or weird. Tesla uses > Mercedes steering systems and a Ford accelerator pedal. They probably > use other parts from existing cars that I'm just not aware of. What if > an open design used parts from other cars and the real open source > magic was the layout that integrates it all together? I have no idea > if a frame could reasonably be constructed custom. But, existing OEM > frames and/or rolling chassis do exist. Control systems for OEM > components also already exist. The OpenInverter project has a lot of > custom boards to control things from Tesla, Nissan, etc. > > The big problem here is probably one of scalability. You can put the > plans together and tell people to buy a Bosch iBooster for their > breaks and a Mercedes steering rack, ford accelerator pedal, Nissan > Leaf drivetrain with an OpenInverter control board, etc, but can 100 > people actually get those parts? 1000 people? These things exist but > can they be found in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile to > do? > > On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 4:56 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > wrote: > > > > Nice sentiment boss man but in mass production a power window is cheaper > to engineer and produce than a crank up window unless you use the old > fashion railway windows you lift up and down by muscle gravity...you might > not know what I'm talking about these are so old. So the idea of > simplifying in the way you think is again going back to the notion of > carrying a horse with you in case you run out of gas. The cost of our > gadgets is trivial in mass production. Might as well go with it. I can > replace my electric power mirrors for $20. When it malfunctions or breaks > off I replace it. Three 10mm nuts. EVerything on cars is like that now. All > neatly in a row with a part number and made in the millions. Available on > eBay.com. The only thing I wish for is no proprietary parts. When you want > a turn signal just one assembly. Bumper one assembly...etc..air > conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot cheaper and easier. > Lawrence Rhodes > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/7ef109bf/attachment.html > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/408e0125/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
Interesting idea! The other issue with this approach is cost. Buying piece parts one at a time will cost much more than buying a production car. Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 1, 2021, 8:44 AM, Collin Kidder via EV wrote: That does lead to another potential idea, though. What if an open source design specifically called for OEM parts that *ARE* easily available and cheap? This isn't so far-fetched or weird. Tesla uses Mercedes steering systems and a Ford accelerator pedal. They probably use other parts from existing cars that I'm just not aware of. What if an open design used parts from other cars and the real open source magic was the layout that integrates it all together? I have no idea if a frame could reasonably be constructed custom. But, existing OEM frames and/or rolling chassis do exist. Control systems for OEM components also already exist. The OpenInverter project has a lot of custom boards to control things from Tesla, Nissan, etc. The big problem here is probably one of scalability. You can put the plans together and tell people to buy a Bosch iBooster for their breaks and a Mercedes steering rack, ford accelerator pedal, Nissan Leaf drivetrain with an OpenInverter control board, etc, but can 100 people actually get those parts? 1000 people? These things exist but can they be found in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile to do? On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 4:56 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > Nice sentiment boss man but in mass production a power window is cheaper to > engineer and produce than a crank up window unless you use the old fashion > railway windows you lift up and down by muscle gravity...you might not know > what I'm talking about these are so old. So the idea of simplifying in the > way you think is again going back to the notion of carrying a horse with you > in case you run out of gas. The cost of our gadgets is trivial in mass > production. Might as well go with it. I can replace my electric power mirrors > for $20. When it malfunctions or breaks off I replace it. Three 10mm nuts. > EVerything on cars is like that now. All neatly in a row with a part number > and made in the millions. Available on eBay.com. The only thing I wish for is > no proprietary parts. When you want a turn signal just one assembly. Bumper > one assembly...etc..air conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot > cheaper and easier. Lawrence Rhodes > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210803/7ef109bf/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
