Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 115, Issue 5

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

By the way autopilot or FSD is an option you can buy by the month. 200 
bucks. So try it...if you don't like it don't buy.


I find on road trips it's great. Worth every penny of the 200 bucks.

t


Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem to
love them despite their reliability problems, and autopilot's attempts to
murder them.
ton, Wa 98236

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 115, Issue 5

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

"I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without

Tesla and Musk.? That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
both. "

I've got 4 friends who are either PhD's or engineers, who have an order 
in for Model Y, and also some other friends, pilot, busdriver who have 
Cybertruck pre-orders. I've owned an original Roadster, a Model 3 and 
now own a Model Y. After 70 years on the planet, no car has ever been so 
amazing as any of the Tesla cars, not even close. You are completely 
right, none of the legacy fossil companies would be were they are now 
without Musk. There would be no MachE (it was a Y copy), there would be 
no 200+mi Bolt (yeah Chevy saw the need for long range because of 
Tesla), there be no pickups, because Musk brought out the Cybertruck, 
which is still just a wish (but sometimes even a wish can change an 
industry ).  Also VW, Volvo, and all the others would not be this far along.


Is Musk a good person, I don't know but what he has done for the planet 
will play out in history, I think in his favor.


What a lot of people don't get is the excitement. These cars are 
exhilarating to drive. Is the Bolt? The Leaf? CAn you say that about 
whatever e-car you drive? If you can, then I think you found the recipe 
for Tesla. It is one hell of a drive.


And reliable. So far with my Y after 2 years, 2 long road trips and 18k 
miles, I've added washer fluid. And air to the tires. Thats it! Yeah I 
need to check the air filters, but really these cars are cheap to operate.


Not sure why all the negativity, I don't get that. But then I don't get 
murder, either. Negativity comes from all quarters, maybe they are 
jealous, maybe just hateful. Maybe they think they have the better idea, 
but just couldn't get that better idea to market, whatever.  I don't 
spend a lot of time on that, life's too short!


t
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 105, Issue 18

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

"the stink of ICEs. "

I get it, but do not have the same affliction. My granddaughter says the 
100% biodiesel Kubota tractor smells likerotten hamburgers!! 
Personally I think it smells like french fries. Years ago, pulling my 
MGBGT into a local fueling station, the person on the next island over 
said " Ah I miss the smell of unburnt hydrocarbons". But I think he 
might have been ironic.


tim

On 7/20/2021 1:07 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Hmmm, I wonder if it comes in biodiesel flavor


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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 105, Issue 9

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

"Musk did great things for Tesla and for EVs initially, but it's past time
for him to go.  If he won't go voluntarily, he should be removed from the
company.  Give him a nice golden parachute (not that he needs one) and push
him out."

Strongly disagree with this sentiment, having had 3 of the companies cars, and 
a current Model Y owner/lover. You say that EV's in Europe are catching up. 
That is mostly because of Elon. What about here in the USA? Not so much.
When Elon goes, it will be a sad day in EV land, and I'm not even a 'tech-bro'.

I used to have a friend that always said "you dance with who brought you to the 
party"

You are welcome to your opinion, and this is mine.

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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 100, Issue 26

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Yep. He is. And yep, he did!

tim

On 2/25/2021 4:33 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Actually, if Musk is as smart a businessman as he seems to think he is,
he'll get Tesla out of the US and set up shop where the market is.


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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236
offg...@whidbey.com
360-630-1962

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 98, Issue 16

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Hey Peri, Still here! I'm more of a listener than a talker. Find that I 
learn more that way! I've been in Power Electronics for 40 years, but 
I'm a newcomer to EV's only started back around 1999, when I built my 
first e-motorcycle. On my fifth EV now, not including ebikes, and will 
never go back. In fact I went 100% solar and got rid of all my fossil 
tools and vehicles, except my bio-diesel tractor! So yep, here mostly 
listening. All the open source DKblock stuff is up on ebay, or you can 
make it yourself with all the files on github.


Cheers!

Tim Economu

On 12/9/2020 9:08 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Last year, I was inquiring about custom battery packs and got the
following response from Tim. I don't know if he's currently on the list,
so I'm posting his response here, for you. You still need to source your
own cells, but he makes the rest of the process pretty easy.

Peri

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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236

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[EVDL] "BLINK" network

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Hi Cal,

If someone from Puget Sound Solar can pipe up, they can corroborate this 
for me, but I believe hearing that they (PSS) had been very busy 
repairing and eventually replacing a lot of the early Blink EVSE in the 
Puget Sound area. I know from personal experience, the Blink units on 
Whidbey Island seldom are working, and have always impossible to read 
displays. I have heard good reports from users of the Juice boxes and 
have used SemaConnect units with success.


t

On 11/16/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

We're looking to install a two-station charger at a non-profit org, and
Blink has some pretty good pricing. But there is little on their network
in our area, and news reports are, well, mixed. Would it be advisable to
go forward with Blink? Our likely alternatives are SemaConnect or
perhaps JuiceBar.


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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 95, Issue 30

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

I like the driveability quotient and how you got there. Driveability is 
a far different thing to me (has more to do with the *way* the car 
drives and handles), so I might call it DCR or drive charge ratio, or 
Deecer for the acronym phobic.


And I would like to see another term thrown in, since charging is so 
important. I would like to see the available fast-chargers within a 
radius of your location.


This last term in your equation would be in my top 3 for buying an EV, 
and it helps answer the question, can I have only one car, and use it 
for long and short trips. Can I go coast to coast, border to border, and 
beyond on one trip? Got 10 fast chargers within a 100 miles of your 
house, and you have a Model 3, your DCR : A = 8:10 or DCR  = 8 and A = 
10. Seems nerdy, now that I write it out...but it would be nice to have 
more fast charger information when the average person buys a new EV.


There is the fact that all fast chargers are not fast (I'm talking about 
you Electrify America in AZ.) but hopefully we will all get to 200kw or 
more eventually.


P.S. So mine is 7.8

t

--
With hope,

Tim Economu

On 9/28/2020 10:58 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 12:57:19 + (UTC)
From: Mark Laity-Snyder
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Drivability again
Message-ID:<394637686.1406944.1601297839...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I did include the link but it didn't show up so here is the pasted article.

There are endless factors used to compare electric vehicles (EVs) from various 
manufacturers. There are 0-60 times. All-electric range (AER). Usable 
kilowatt-hour (kWh) in the battery. Luggage space. Number of seatbelts. Charge 
rates for DC fast charging. Efficiency.

But something is missing. Something important. For the lack of a better term, 
I?ll call it ?drivability.? Drivability is related to efficiency, but it isn?t 
exactly that. It?s also related to charge rate, but it isn?t exactly that, 
either.

I would define drivability simply as how long I have to charge my car in order 
to get back on the road. In terms of basic arithmetic, it could be defined as 
the ratio of how quickly I can add energy to the car, to how quickly energy is 
used while driving the car.

To make drivability a useful metric to compare EVs, some standardizing 
assumptions are required. So let?s assume that we drive the car for one hour at 
62 miles-per-hour (MPH). How long will it take to replenish the energy used? 
The less time it takes to charge the car to replenish the energy used, the more 
drivable the car becomes.

 From personal experience?

My first EV was a Miata conversion. While I loved driving that car, it had a 
horrible drivability factor. At 62 miles per hour (MPH), the Miata traveled 
approximately 2.2 miles for every kWh consumed. Worse, its maximum charge rate 
was merely 2.5 kilowatts (kW). Expressed mathematically, that is 2.5*2.2 = 5.5, 
which has units of MPH. Taking it a step further, and since the 2.2 mi/kWh 
efficiency assumed 62 MPH, for every hour charging, I could drive for only 
5.5/62 = 0.09 hours! As I?m defining it, my e.Miata had a drivability of 0.09. 
Not good for long trips.

Now I drive a Jaguar I-Pace. Its efficiency isn?t much better at 2.4 mi/kWh at 
a constant 62 MPH, but its maximum charge rate is far superior at 100 kW from a 
capable DC fast charger. Running through the same arithmetic gives a 
driveability factor of 3.8. What this means is that for every hour I charge my 
I-Pace, I can drive for 3.8 hours at 62 MPH. Those with an eye for numbers will 
cry foul about now because most EVs will not sustain the maximum charge rate on 
a DC fast charge for very long. But we?re going to ignore this reality for a 
moment.

Let?s look at one more example. I convinced my younger brother to buy a Tesla 
Model 3, which has an efficiency at 62 MPH of 4.5 mi/kWh, and will charge at 
120 kW. Running through the same arithmetic gives it a driveability of 9. Ergo, 
for every hour of charging one could drive for nine hours, assuming the car?s 
battery and the driver?s bladder have that type of capacity. This can also be 
interpreted to mean that every minute charged enables nine minutes of driving.?

The numbers discussed above reflect a maximum drivability using the maximum DC 
fast charging rate for a specific model. Understanding that no EV can sustain 
maximum charge rate when using a DC fast charger, it makes sense to be more 
focused on the average drivability. Over the course of a full charge, the 
I-Pace average charge rate at up to 90% state of charge is about 70 kW. The 
Model 3 is about 100 kW at up to 90% state of charge. This yields an average 
drivability factor of 2.7 for the I-Pace and 7.1 for the Model 3.

So, what should we do with this information?

I am suggesting that manufacturers start using a standardized metric similar to 
drivability, enabling consumers to compare different 

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 95, Issue 18

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Oh yeah forgot the company I cofounded! Magnum Energy makes product here 
in the USA.


t

--
Kind regards,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC

On 9/18/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Sunpower is the only US maker of PV panels that I can think of.

Enphase makes grid-tie inverters, and mine says it's made in the US... but it's 
about 5 years old. They may have outsourced by now.

Lee Hart


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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 95, Issue 18

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

"I couldn't name a single U.S producer of PV

modules, and the BOS equipment is mostly assembled in China as well."

Only one of the best PV modules in the world. Silfab, Bellingham Wa, USA 
and Ontario (I think) Canada. Now shipping 330W monocrystaline at .50/W 
available all day from Platt Electric.


Also Outback Power and Midnite assemble most of their product here in 
the USA.


Wa state companies...all of them!

--
Kind regards,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC


On 9/18/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:39:49 -0700
From: "Mr. Sharkey"
To:ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Big Oil?s green makeover
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

  > Wouldn't you expect that these large oil companies would have
  > the ability to weather industry downturns, improve the
  > technology, and remain around to service warranties, like Siemens,
  > as opposed to a smaller company?

Well, sure, that would be the expectation, but in their prior
exploits in PV, they turned around and sold off the subsidiary when
the market for those products got soft and the price point started
dropping. That's my point, they aren't dedicated to the principle,
only the profits. Even Siemens got out.

Essentially 100% of photovoltaic production is from China these days.
Without research, I couldn't name a single U.S producer of PV
modules, and the BOS equipment is mostly assembled in China as well.
What will BO (Big Oil) do when the profit drains away from the
charging infrastructure? Maybe it won't, then they will own more of
the transportation fueling market. Is that a good thing? IDK, I
charge at home with power produced with those Siemens PV's...


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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 95, Issue 17

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

aGREE 100% Jan.

Yeah I was one of the folks involved with BP going 'green' back in the 
late 90's. A fellow engineer and I designed a grid-tie inverter that BP 
decided to pick up for some of their gas stations. They were called "BP 
Connect" stations and they had solar on the fueling island roofs and 
inverters (Trace Engineering) on the posts holding up the roofs.


There is a pretty good picture of the station at 
https://www.alamy.com/bp-petrol-station-with-solar-roof-brighton-uk-image236719.html


 We ended up selling a few hundred inverters to them before they 
cancelled the program. We were pretty excited that a dinosaur company 
could actually be switching, however tentatively, to renewables, and 
were pretty disappointed that they did not see the value in their offering.


Now it looks like they are trying again. Too little too late, in my 
humble opinion


Tim Economu


On 9/17/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 15:36:43 -0700
From: Jan Steinman
To:ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Big Oil's green makeover
Message-ID:<5cef76b6-a836-4bfc-8986-67c9f0332...@ecoreality.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii


From: Mark Abramowitz

I would not call it a green makeover. They are investing in energy that will 
make money.

I'm a bit more cynical about a "green makeover." To paraphrase Yogi Berra, it's 
like deja vu, all over again!

Anyone else remember when BP re-branded itself as "Beyond Petroleum?"

Then the price of gas went up, and they abandoned that plan!

I expect the same to happen to all the newly-branded "green" polluters. As soon as their 
main rape-n-pillage business recovers, they'll ditch the "green" bits, pronto!

 The more the work is left to nature, the greater the net yield but the longer 
the time required... Thus sometimes the most apparently productive and high-yielding 
sources of energy involve a lot of activity for little return, while long-term 
investments, especially in naturally grown forests, provide the greatest value for 
future generations. -- David Holmgren  

 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 


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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 94, Issue 33

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Anytime you want a 100A circuit (or larger) for your house or 
outbuilding. Pretty common actually, since every house and most 
buildings have a service entrance.


Tim E.

On 8/27/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

  > Check the NEC if you wanna do it for your house

Section 310.4 of the National Electrical Code permits paralleling of
conductors only if the wire gauge used is 1/0 or larger. There are
further stipulations on the type and installation of the conductors.
For sure, follow the NEC guidelines.

Really, who is likely to need this kind of ampacity in domestic wiring?


--

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 94, Issue 31

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Hey Lawrence,

Your example reminds me of a good rule of thumb with wire. The rule of 
3. Parallel any two wires of the same gauge and you drop 3 gauges. So 
two 10's go to AWG 7, and so forth. It's very helpful in winding 
transformers and motors, but you can get into trouble in some cases in 
house wiring. Check the NEC if you wanna do it for your house.


t

On 8/25/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

If you need a bigger carrying capacity this calculator will tell what is 
needed. For instance I needed 10 gauge wire to ground my antenna. I only had 12 
gauge. Two strands equal 9 gauge. Two strands is safe. Lawrence 
Rhodes.?https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire-Gauge-Calculator_ep_42.html


--
With hope,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236
offg...@whidbey.com
360-630-1962

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 42

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Well the Solaredge HD wave (and the previous model) use a fixed input 
voltage at a nominal 380VDC, with a 480VDC max. There is no MPPT, since 
that is done off-board in their optimizers, that sit behind the PV 
modules. So you might be able to connect a nominal 380V battery pack to 
the solar and have it act normally. But one would have to actually *try* 
it...


They are pretty cheap (older version)*https://preview.tinyurl.com/yy4l65fs*

*Even the HD wave is not too bad at 6kW power 
level...https://www.ebay.com/itm/SolarEdge-SE6000H-US000NNU2-HD-Wave-6kW-240V-TL-Inverter/353151346924?hash=item523975e8ec:g:9HIAAOSwWHtfHgFa*


*Please note that the Solaredge has an integrated DC disconnect rated 
for PV, not battery. Also for operating 120/240V split phase loads you 
need their balancing transformer...

*

t

On 7/30/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for the PV 
input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.


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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 16

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Yeah but the problem with the Route de Sol Van is that right now it's 
stuck in Mexico, having gone from Alaska, south through Canada, and the 
continental US. They hit some high winds and it tore the solar panels 
off and did a lot of damage. And the panels are their primary source of 
energy. They can plug in also, but they usually refuel with photons.


I'm trying to get them to post on the SEVA Seattle EV Association list 
so that our members could help them. With COVID, they can't seem to get 
parts accross the border.


Tim

On 7/10/2020 10:23 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:30:30 -0700
From: phil hochstetler
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 11:53 AM Peter VanDerWal via EV
wrote:


Not if I had a Tesla. But I don't. Has anyone ever driven a Leaf

coast-to-coast? I rather doubt

it... it would take a month!

It wouldn't surprise me.  I seem to remember someone driving a converted
VW microbus coast-to-coast 30-40 years ago, and it had far less than 100
miles range.
___




Of course you could drive on locally produced electrons from Alaska to
Agentina (sunshine).  Who needs a plug?

https://www.routedelsol.com/

Phil H.
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Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 91, Issue 6

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Hey Larry, I think that was me. I did car/house/solar+storage and we are 
about 95% net zero on an annualized basis. I am installing a little more 
solar and converting my diesel tractor to get to 100%. The upfront cost 
is there but now the savings are big. Low fuel and maintenance costs for 
the EV's. Same for a passive house, with the bonus being excellent air 
quality inside, and cozy warm in the winter. And solar, even here in the 
great Pacific Northwest is like magic, super low cost to maintain, 
basically clean them off once per year. It's the perfect retirement plan 
for me, low outgo, maximum payback and supreme fun!


Tim Economu

On 5/6/2020 9:13 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Some time ago I made a presentation at the Seattle Electric Vehicle
Association (SEVA) in which I showed that, even in the Seattle area which
has the worst solar energy in the USA (other than Alaska), by combining 3
existing technologies:  (1) electric cars, like the Model 3, (2) the
European Passive House Design, and (3) a 10 kW solar panel, that the
combination of house+cars not only is net positive in terms of energy, but
reduces the total amount of energy use by a factor of 9-10, even when you
include the energy needed to manufacture and install the 10 kW solar panel.




At the end of this presentation, one of the SEVA members got up and said
that he had actually done what  I merely calculate and talk about, and that
my figures are very close to what he has observed in reality.

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 90, Issue 36

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

It's about source and receiver and signal strength. Ham guys don't' have 
their radios in the bowels of the machine, they have their antenna (and 
a power amp) outside the noise envelope. We are talking in dB of signal 
to noise ratios, you just don't have the luxury of having your power amp 
(much at all) and antenna outside the package. There is an acceptable 
error rate, and no usable signal. If you do the measurements and tests, 
I think you will agree.



t

On 4/28/2020 10:30 PM, Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
Isn't "Wide Band Noise" what RF guys overcome every day?   The reason 
you tune a radio is to ignore the 50 million other
channels and the sun/jupiter/everyelectronicdevice known to man and 
concentrate on your own..


I can use my cell phone in my EV just fine.   If noise was really 
insurmountable, then I wouldn't be able to do that.


Seems to me that with enough selectivity over enough time, you can 
ignore every bit of noise known to man.


As I said the Ham guys can pick out signal in signal to noise ratios 
of -120db.  That's 12 orders of magnitude and they can detect
a walkie/talkie on the other side of the globe.   It's amazing. Sure 
it's only a few bits/min, but the point is that it IS doable.


It requires a different mindset than just straight digital 
manipulation.   You accept error rates and deal with them using math.




On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 9:58:47 PM PDT, Offgrid Systems via EV 
 wrote:



Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lee here. I've been thinking about this for
years also, going as far as testing some ac powerline comm chips adapted
to DC power busses. I found it's impossible with all the noise coming
from the drive on an EV.  But Lee, you don't even need a spectrum
analyser, just fire up your EV drive train, looking at any of the phases
with a oscilloscope. It's wide band noise, and the motor control is
modulating to operate the motor, but with sinewave drives, or even the
old PWM drives, there is noise during the entire cycle, and the only way
you get a quiet time is if you actually shut off and short the motor for
a brief period. But if you do that there will be high peak currents that
will not be good for the efficiency of the drive. If reliability is the
key, you will not want to use the DC busses, unless it's a low noise
application, and you can control and build all of the power devices,
like maybe a powerwall with a pure sinewave inverter, and you make the
charger (solar charge controller) and the inverter. But for motor
control, it's a difficult problem to solve.

Tim Economu

On 4/28/2020 6:48 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org 
<mailto:ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> It sounds easy; but put a spectrum analyzer on your battery leads to see
> what's*really*  there. I think you'd be shocked at the noise level.
>
>> There are a few clever tricks you can employ. During charging, you can
>> have the charger pause for a regular "moment of silence" in which the
>> BMS can communicate quickly and in the clear without having to "shout"
>> over the charger PWM. Perhaps the same thing could occur to a lesser
>> extent with the inverter.
> Same as above. Are you going to design a special charger that must be
> used with your BMS?
>
> There are lots of solutions that work*some*  of the time. There are a
> few that work*most*  of the time. But it gets damnably difficult to find
> schemes that work*all*  of the time.
>
> The problem is that a BMS is a safety system that you want to work*all*
> of the time.
>
> Lee Hart

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--
With hope,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236
offg...@whidbey.com
360-630-1962

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 90, Issue 36

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lee here. I've been thinking about this for 
years also, going as far as testing some ac powerline comm chips adapted 
to DC power busses. I found it's impossible with all the noise coming 
from the drive on an EV.  But Lee, you don't even need a spectrum 
analyser, just fire up your EV drive train, looking at any of the phases 
with a oscilloscope. It's wide band noise, and the motor control is 
modulating to operate the motor, but with sinewave drives, or even the 
old PWM drives, there is noise during the entire cycle, and the only way 
you get a quiet time is if you actually shut off and short the motor for 
a brief period. But if you do that there will be high peak currents that 
will not be good for the efficiency of the drive. If reliability is the 
key, you will not want to use the DC busses, unless it's a low noise 
application, and you can control and build all of the power devices, 
like maybe a powerwall with a pure sinewave inverter, and you make the 
charger (solar charge controller) and the inverter. But for motor 
control, it's a difficult problem to solve.


Tim Economu

On 4/28/2020 6:48 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

It sounds easy; but put a spectrum analyzer on your battery leads to see
what's*really*  there. I think you'd be shocked at the noise level.


There are a few clever tricks you can employ. During charging, you can
have the charger pause for a regular "moment of silence" in which the
BMS can communicate quickly and in the clear without having to "shout"
over the charger PWM. Perhaps the same thing could occur to a lesser
extent with the inverter.

Same as above. Are you going to design a special charger that must be
used with your BMS?

There are lots of solutions that work*some*  of the time. There are a
few that work*most*  of the time. But it gets damnably difficult to find
schemes that work*all*  of the time.

The problem is that a BMS is a safety system that you want to work*all*  
of the time.


Lee Hart


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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 90, Issue 34

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

On 4/28/2020 10:25 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

"https://github.com/offgridsystems (github resource repository)

Tim Economu's qualifications and background are impeccable, you couldn't ask 
for a better collaborator on a project like this.

"


Hello all,

Just wanted to respond to a couple of comments in the last archive, and 
maybe introduce myself. I've been an "active listener" on EVDL for 
years, and now its nice to be able to give a little back to the active 
EV community, so I'm coming out of the woodwork so to speak. If I might 
introduce myself, I spent most of the last 30 years designing power 
inverters and battery chargers (and being partial owner), of companies 
such as Trace Engineering, Xantrex, Magnum, and a slew of smaller 
companies doing solar, battery, and renewable energy projects in the 
great Pacific Northwest. You might even have one of my inverters in your 
RV, boat or house, whether you are offgrid or grid-tied, whether it's 
sinewave or not. I've done some conversions, and some work on OEM EV's, 
designed my own ground-up custom electric bikes and motorcycles, and am 
currently converting all my fossil stuff to battery electric, including 
my old Dodge camper van. So far I am about 95% renewable, the last 5% is 
mainly my diesel tractor...which I actually have a motor and controller 
procured for. I've also done the electrical design for a number of solar 
projects, including the 75kw community solar farm at Greenbank Farm on 
Whidbey.


It was natural to pick a battery project, since I started out working on 
lead batteries many years ago, transitioned to doing nickel chemistries, 
then fool cells, and then finally the last 10 year doing lithium cell 
based packs. I noticed after Tesla started that not many folks was 
taking the patents and doing something more universally germaine, such 
as powerwall, bicycle, auto, and marine applications. And thinking that 
with computer and EV boom (which I still see coming) there will be a LOT 
of used and new 18650 and 2170 cylindrical cells out there in the world. 
Also after a few years (and getting generous payoffs from those 
aforementioned companies) I decided to open source my project, and give 
away the intellectual property, so others can use what they need from it.


To specifically answer some of the questions posted, I'll offer these 
comments:


The DKblock is designed for either repurposing used, or new 18650 cells, 
and being able to change out the cells easily when worn or failed, and 
keep all the rest of the system in place. It was designed to be wireless 
for the communications between the blocks and the Pack Supervisor board 
to keep the small wire pack wiring to a minimum, for reliability 
improvement, and to allow subpacks to be in different locations. I won't 
go on and on since you can go look at it yourself because it's open source.


The basic DKblock has 20 cells in a 2S10P configuration. You can use my 
plastic parts on ebay (search DKblock) or print your own. Same with the 
boards you can make your own, or purchase. Same with the firmware except 
it's free, and you can modify if for your own purpose! Right now the 
system is only good to about 20 blocks in series, or about 60 blocks 
total (3 par strings of 20 blocks each). But I am working on V2 which 
will be much more capable in terms of subpack spacing for longer 
distances, and more blocks allowed, maybe up to 100 blocks in series, 
and a few more features.


The block (Block Manager) does all of the cell management, temperatures, 
volts, etc. The Pack Supervisor does all the pack related stuff, 
voltage, current, temp, over-under voltage, overcurrent and over-under 
temperature control with output relays for control, based on it's own 
sensors, and the data coming in from each separate block.


I hope that answers the basic questions about the DKblock, and the 
origination. I hope that the introduction does not seem too self 
serving, but I know if use something that someone else designed, it is 
nice to know who they are, and where they come from, especially when it 
comes to batteries. And that is probably not just me. And thanks for the 
kind words from Peri and Mr. Sharkey!


Tim Economu, Offgrid Systems LLC, Whidbey Island, renewable power. 
https://dkblock922508958.wordpress.com



On 4/28/2020 10:25 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

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[EVDL] custom battery - DKblock

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Hi Peri,

I've designed an open source BMS and cell packaging system, if you don't 
want to design your own.


You need to source some pretty amazing lithium ion cells for that 53C 
discharge rate! I think you might end up with a larger battery to get 
that big C rate.


Anyway it's free to use if you want here is the website for all the 
files. https://github.com/offgridsystems


There are some parts up on ebay if you don't want to make/order your 
own. 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=dkblock&_sacat=0


Also a website if you want so build information. 
https://dkblock922508958.wordpress.com


You may need to reprogram the Teensy (arduino like) controller (using my 
code) for your application.


Cheers,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
Whidbey Island


On 4/14/2020 11:36 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 04:33:04 +
From: "Peri Hartman"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Subject: [EVDL] custom battery
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Hi,

I need a battery with about 150Wh and a discharge rate of 8kW for up to
a minute or so. I've spent a few hours searching and there doesn't seem
to be anything on the market that fits this. There are, of course,
higher capacity batteries that can deliver 8kW, but that's not what I'm
after.

This isn't for an EV, so I suppose this is somewhat off topic, although
BMSs are a relevant topic to EVs. It's for a home appliance that I'm
prototyping.

I'm pretty sure I can find affordable cells that I can put together to
do this, but then I'm stuck with a custom BMS. I suspect that's the
route I'm going to have to take. So, let's talk about that.

Each cell (or group of parallel cells) needs a monitoring circuit (is
there a name for this?). And theses monitors need to communicate with a
BMS. I'm less concerned about designing the BMS as I think I can use an
arduino and do it in software. The arduino can control the charger, too.
I can revisit this later. But for the monitors, I need to get it right.
Since the battery will be in the house, it cannot cause a fire. Ever. Of
course, I will have over temperature sensors which shut off the charger
and shut off the load.

Here's what I think each monitor's role is, based on what I've read on
EVDL over the years and some common sense:)
- cell over voltage
- cell under voltage
- cell over current
- cell temperature
In all of the above the circuit should shunt the cell.
In addition, the monitor should constantly report the cell voltage,
current, and temp to the BMS.

If there's something reliable I can buy, at a reasonable price, that's
my first choice. Otherwise, I guess it's getting someone to help design
and fabricate these.

I would be grateful for your suggestions.

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