Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
USPS home delivery delivers far more material in a smaller area than a soda and chip truck, Every home versus every store. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mar 21, 2015, at 11:55 AM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: According to a presentation that I saw UPS give about a week ago, they have a number of EVs out there, though they have had some issues. Not surprising. Most are new vehicles, from new manufacturers. Lots of bugs to work out, often having nothing to do with it being electric (brakes, suspension, steering, body work, etc.) Certainly possible, though not mentioned. Range was an issue. The usual ICE delivery vehicle manufacturers never want to build EV versions, so USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc. get them from new (and inexperienced) suppliers. Don't forget Pepsi/Frito-Lay. They have the biggest fleet. They have 280 EVs. Cost and range are issues. Subsidies are still important to them for new tech. I attended a rollout of a number of EV trucks they put into their fleet. This is important to us in California. One reason why the Governor attended. But their fleet is converting mainly to CNG...40% after this year...a good thing, too. In small towns, they find that their demand for electricity exceeds that of the entire town! So, for example, in San Bernardino County in California, they had to build their own infrastructure. That can't be because they are EVs. I'll bet it's simply because UPS (or whoever) put a big distribution center in the middle of nowhere, and had to pay to route in the usual power and other utilities that any factory or business needs. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150322/703ddf4a/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
On Mar 22, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote: USPS home delivery delivers far more material in a smaller area than a soda and chip truck, Every home versus every store. Largest private fleet, bigger than the others mentioned. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mar 21, 2015, at 11:55 AM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: According to a presentation that I saw UPS give about a week ago, they have a number of EVs out there, though they have had some issues. Not surprising. Most are new vehicles, from new manufacturers. Lots of bugs to work out, often having nothing to do with it being electric (brakes, suspension, steering, body work, etc.) Certainly possible, though not mentioned. Range was an issue. The usual ICE delivery vehicle manufacturers never want to build EV versions, so USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc. get them from new (and inexperienced) suppliers. Don't forget Pepsi/Frito-Lay. They have the biggest fleet. They have 280 EVs. Cost and range are issues. Subsidies are still important to them for new tech. I attended a rollout of a number of EV trucks they put into their fleet. This is important to us in California. One reason why the Governor attended. But their fleet is converting mainly to CNG...40% after this year...a good thing, too. In small towns, they find that their demand for electricity exceeds that of the entire town! So, for example, in San Bernardino County in California, they had to build their own infrastructure. That can't be because they are EVs. I'll bet it's simply because UPS (or whoever) put a big distribution center in the middle of nowhere, and had to pay to route in the usual power and other utilities that any factory or business needs. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150322/13c9a7cd/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
On Mar 21, 2015, at 7:18 AM, Roland via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Maybe other delivery companies may change there thinking. For fixed-route fleet vehicles, so long as range and other capabilities are adequate, you'd have to be nuts to go with anything other than electric. The savings in fuel and maintenance are just so overwhelming in such a case, and none of the typical consumer concerns (legitimate or otherwise) apply. These vehicles are already typically fueled at the depot at the end of the shift or on some other fixed schedule, so there's no worry about finding a plug at some random spot on the road. (Go 100% electric, especially for new installations, and you can eliminate an awful lot of very expensive and very messy and very hazardous fueling infrastructure.) The fixed routes means that there's no unpredictability about range. Plus, if the car _does_ break down for whatever reason, including low charge, the company calls the tow truck for you and the fleet maintenance supervisor gets chewed out. Purchase price almost doesn't matter, as it's operations and maintenance that costs all the money in fleets. And both are a tiny fraction of the cost with electric vehicles compared to the competition. So, really, the only question is whether the EV meets the necessary specifications of range, load capacity, and that sort of thing. If it does, it's game over for any ICE being considered. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150321/14805017/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
On 21 Mar 2015 at 9:04, Ben Goren via EV wrote: So, really, the only question is whether the EV meets the necessary specifications of range, load capacity, and that sort of thing. If it does, it's game over for any ICE being considered. Unless the fleet manager puts his thumb on the scale. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
Maybe other delivery companies may change there thinking. This last week, I was sitting in a café and saw a UPS (not a USPS) van drove by. Saw the word ELECTRIC in large dark letters on the side of the vehicle. It's the only one I saw that had this word on it. All the others did not. This town Great Falls, Montana is not large. To drive to one end of the town to the other end is about 10 miles. I only charge my Li Ion battery pack about once a week which still takes less than a hour. I have read sometime ago, that SmithElectric.com is going to build a electric vehicle assembly plant here in the U.S. because there is a demand for large delivery vehicles. It was stated they have orders for 40,000 telephone and communication service vehicles. Roland - Original Message - From: EVDL Administrator via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric? On 20 Mar 2015 at 8:53, tomw via EV wrote: The USPS has a long history of testing electric vehicles, starting in the late 1800's: https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-history/electric-vehicles.pdfhttps://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-history/electric-vehicles.pdf Looks like it was mainly the suppliers who were responsible for them not being implemented. So THEY say. With all due respect, I'm more inclined to buy Lee Hart's account. It fits in with what I've read in other places, particularly about maintenance people deliberately sabotaging EVs. For example, though I can't recall any more whether it was USPS mechanics or others, I remember reading about maintenance staff watering flooded lead batteries by spraying them with a garden hose. Even if it wasn't at the USPS, it's the kind of treatment that EV-hating mechanics have long visited on EVs when they were added to ICEV fleets. I used to think that education would fix this. Having seen how calcified many of these minds are, though, I no longer believe that that's going to be very effective. IMO, the only way to fix anti-EV sentiment in the USPS or anywhere else is for an EV-positive leader to take over the job, probably at the highest level, and JUST DO IT. He or she should give the naysayers - managers, drivers, maintenance crew, whatever - one chance to start doing their jobs right, whether they agree with EVs or not. If they don't, sack 'em and hire people who will. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150321/151275bd/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks beElectric?
On Mar 21, 2015, at 10:36 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 21 Mar 2015 at 9:04, Ben Goren via EV wrote: So, really, the only question is whether the EV meets the necessary specifications of range, load capacity, and that sort of thing. If it does, it's game over for any ICE being considered. Unless the fleet manager puts his thumb on the scale. True. But, that's a case where Mr. Smith's Invisible Hand tends to be effective. A company that wastes, in comparison with its competitors, that kind of money...soon finds itself at a competitive disadvantage. The first company to make the leap gets a jump on the competition. And, once the competitors figure out how it is that the trailblazers are undercutting them...then the thumbs tend to get chopped off if their owners still try to keep them on the scale. The USPS, of course, is its own special unique beast. They get pulled in so many directions that the normal rules don't apply. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150321/002f4404/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
