Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com wrote: On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:41 AM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. Then...can you point me in the direction of a supported controller worth considering for this project, or at least how I'd go about making an intelligent choice? I'm not completely opposed to the idea of pioneering generic 5 V controller support, but it's not my area of expertise, so it likely shouldn't be the only option I consider. b I still have a DMOC645 controller I'm looking to sell so that's always a good option according to me. ;) But, I don't have a spare motor for it. People are constantly selling the motors. Jack at EVTV has Coda UQM motors and controllers and might be getting more in the future. They are expensive but quite powerful. Also, UQM motors are fairly light and small for their power. Those two controllers would be the controllers we currently have support for. There is also a Brusa controller that is supported but it's very expensive and probably hard to acquire in the US. If you are going to try the 5V route you really might consider the Open Revolt as Joe suggested. You might be able to cut the GEVCU out entirely that way if you can modify the code for the OR controller. However, series DC motors are not well renowned for their easy ability to do regen so if you'd hoped to use the motor as part of the braking system then that won't work. DC controllers and motors tend to be cheaper which can be a positive thing. I'm not actually that partial to the low voltage / high amperage pathway that DC motors tend to take but to each his own. I believe you can buy assembled Open Revolt controllers which might be a good idea if you don't normally do this sort of thing. The choice might come down to what you trust. Coda is out of business. Azure Dynamics (maker of the DMOC) is out of business. You aren't getting commercial support for either controller. But, Open Revolt was built by hobbyists - so far as I know they're all still alive so that's promising. I'm sure you will find plenty of help whichever way you go. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140725/dba81685/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
You are now WAY beyond my pay grade here. I can only say that IMO any time you have a computer controlling something that acts like a throttle, you want to put a LOT of time into debugging the code, have multiple ways to detect failures, and have multiple ways to shut things down in case something unexpected happens despite all the fail-safes. I don't know of any off-the-shelf solution for what you want to do, though I know that similar things have been done. All the homebrew hybrids I've read about so far (I've surely missed some) were essentially 100% manually controlled. However, I think I mentioned before an Escort wagon hybrid conversion done by a team of university students for a Ford / DOE competition, the Hybrid Electric Vehicle Challenge. This would have been in the early to mid 1990s. It was one of a couple dozen university projects in the competition, but this one stood out because of its sophistication. The students had put quite a lot of effort into making it a push the pedals and steer car. The onboard micro looked at battery SOC and driving conditions, and decided whether and when to start the ICE, and how to balance ICE and motor torque - pretty much what the Volt and Prius Plugin do, but about 15-20 years before. Sorry to say I don't recall who was behind it, and web searches haven't helped much. But anyway, the point is that it CAN be done. I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, but you might try contacting Victor Tikhonov at Metric Mind, and see if he thinks a Brusa drive might be able to do what you want. Victor is the US distributor for Brusa inverters and AC induction motors. Brusa inverters speak CANBUS; maybe that would help you develop the interface you want. One warning, Brusa is a Swiss company and their prices tend to be reminiscent of Swiss watches'. http://www.metricmind.com/about-us/ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: You might keep in mind the GEVCU project which can be purchased from EVTV Ooooh...I like! Currently it works with DMOC645, Brusa, and Coda UQM controllers. What would be involved in support for the typical Curtis or Zilla controllers used with the HPEVS or WarP motors? Could one, for example, reasonably create a generic controller that just put out a digested 5v signal to feed to the controller? It is possible to make it control something like a Curtis or Zilla or WarP controller. As you said, those controllers really want to see a variable voltage 0-5V (well, somewhere within that range like 1-4v) instead of being canbus controlled. The GEVCU hardware is capable of doing PWM output on the digital output pins. This PWM signal could be turned into a more or less steady state analog signal via resistors and capacitors. The values would likely have to be tweaked to make things stable. Really nobody has tried to do this yet. We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/5d9f81ff/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:41 AM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. Then...can you point me in the direction of a supported controller worth considering for this project, or at least how I'd go about making an intelligent choice? I'm not completely opposed to the idea of pioneering generic 5 V controller support, but it's not my area of expertise, so it likely shouldn't be the only option I consider. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/91fdbba2/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
Having been involved with the Open Revolt project, I'm a little biased. But I think it would be ideal for this project since you would have access to the source code and hardware schematics. That would allow you to either modify the software or hardware to suit your needs. http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/ReVolt http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/store/page6.html The kit is 144V/500A and would be suitable for someone of moderate electronics skill. If you're more adventurous, others have made their own power section to handle higher current and voltage, so that's certainly possible. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:41 AM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: We've mostly been focused on trying to support the higher end OEM controllers we've been getting out of bankrupt companies and salvage. Then...can you point me in the direction of a supported controller worth considering for this project, or at least how I'd go about making an intelligent choice? I'm not completely opposed to the idea of pioneering generic 5 V controller support, but it's not my area of expertise, so it likely shouldn't be the only option I consider. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/91fdbba2/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/66622380/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
This is actually a pair of interrelated questions: electric motor controllers, and how to tell said controllers how to control the motors. To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric motors. This would obviously require at least two different drive modes, and possibly more, dependent on various input sources. There seems general consensus that, in hybrid mode, using the combustion engine's vacuum pressure to set the electric motor's throttle is a good idea. Obviously, that's not an option in pure electric mode. In hybrid mode, I might want to change how eager the electric motor is based on battery charge, or have eco and performance modes, or various other options. That's obviously a somewhat more complex set of input parameters than is typical, and it seems like it might be more than most motor controllers are designed to accept. I do database and application and Web development for the day job, and I'm not afraid to sink my teeth into a new language. I'm also aware that embedded controller programming is a much different beast than what I'm used to. So...are there motor controllers that can reasonably handle this kind of complexity? If not, how 'bout some other device (in the spirit of an Arduino?) that can accept all the various control inputs and output a single signal that the motor controller thinks is a regular throttle request? Or is there some other approach that's typical that I'm not aware of, or...? Thanks again, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140723/cfc10750/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
You might keep in mind the GEVCU project which can be purchased from EVTV ( http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcucat=23) It is open source and has enough I/O to do what you want. Of course, what you want is rather custom so some coding would have to be done. But, the nasty low-level stuff would already be done for you. Currently it works with DMOC645, Brusa, and Coda UQM controllers. More devices are being added every so often. It's in the spirit of Arduino and, full disclosure, I helped make it. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: This is actually a pair of interrelated questions: electric motor controllers, and how to tell said controllers how to control the motors. To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric motors. This would obviously require at least two different drive modes, and possibly more, dependent on various input sources. There seems general consensus that, in hybrid mode, using the combustion engine's vacuum pressure to set the electric motor's throttle is a good idea. Obviously, that's not an option in pure electric mode. In hybrid mode, I might want to change how eager the electric motor is based on battery charge, or have eco and performance modes, or various other options. That's obviously a somewhat more complex set of input parameters than is typical, and it seems like it might be more than most motor controllers are designed to accept. I do database and application and Web development for the day job, and I'm not afraid to sink my teeth into a new language. I'm also aware that embedded controller programming is a much different beast than what I'm used to. So...are there motor controllers that can reasonably handle this kind of complexity? If not, how 'bout some other device (in the spirit of an Arduino?) that can accept all the various control inputs and output a single signal that the motor controller thinks is a regular throttle request? Or is there some other approach that's typical that I'm not aware of, or...? Thanks again, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140723/cfc10750/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140723/b461a127/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: Motor control
On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Collin Kidder coll...@kkmfg.com wrote: You might keep in mind the GEVCU project which can be purchased from EVTV Ooooh...I like! Currently it works with DMOC645, Brusa, and Coda UQM controllers. What would be involved in support for the typical Curtis or Zilla controllers used with the HPEVS or WarP motors? Could one, for example, reasonably create a generic controller that just put out a digested 5v signal to feed to the controller? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140723/28c08c4f/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
