Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Cal Frye via EV]

It can be done:
http://www.costcoauto.com/new_cars/results.aspx?modelid=28407=2016

> *From:* EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> *Date:* August 30, 2016 at 10:54 AM
> *To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> *Subject:* [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off
> 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose
>
> I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator


-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160830/1643d612/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Chris Tromley via EV]

I have little doubt that there are all sorts of contractual restrictions
regarding who Nissan can sell to directly, what constitutes an acceptable
fleet buyer, etc.  The only rational way to do this is to contact Nissan
first, before putting anyone's name on a list.

There is no justifiable reason for anyone to get "ticked off".  This was
poorly executed from the start.

The only reason this happened is that people were already ticked off at how
hard it is to buy a Leaf in the first place.  The solution starts with
dealers who want to sell them.
On Aug 30, 2016 10:54 AM, "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
wrote:

> On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>
> > If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to
> costco,
> > walmart, and the boy scouts.
>
> I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I think it would be great. I'm not sure Nissan (and others) want to 
undercut their dealerships.


-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: 30-Aug-16 7:54:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 
3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose



On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to 
costco,

 walmart, and the boy scouts.


I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)





___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to costco,
> walmart, and the boy scouts.

I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Or maybe Nissan just doesn't want to step on the slippery slope of group 
buys. If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to 
costco, walmart, and the boy scouts.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Rick Beebe via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: 30-Aug-16 5:00:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 
3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose


Of course we don't really know if there was negotiation or not. It says 
they "rejected the group buy offer" but that could mean they rejected 
the group buy OR they rejected the offer. Maybe they counter-offered 
and it was too rich for the group. Just like we don't really know if 
the groups hope of $20k was just a hope or whether they had actually 
gotten that number from someone at Nisaan.


--Rick

 On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:


 I was surprised that Nissan's answer was "No" instead of a counter 
offer.  Entering into a negotiation would have been appropriate.


 Mike


 On August 29, 2016 7:50:47 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
 Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first 
talking

 to Nissan.


 Sent from AltaMail


 From: Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle
 Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca 
sez
 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose 
Date:

 8/29/16, 6:27 PM


 One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that
 target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that
 price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if 
you


 would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout
 how
 much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a 
loss.
 And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car 
when


 they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first.

 --Rick


 On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, 
Canada

 set up
 a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people 
initially

 signed

 up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had

 climbed up
 to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate 
HQ

 in

 Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of

 numbers

 (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the

 sticker

 price of the car.

 The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S 
Trim.

 The
 members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get 
Nissan

 to sell

 the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn

 of
 events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy 
offer

 and

 effectively shut down the plan.


 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

 -- next part --
 An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
 URL:
 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160829/e6b10572/attachment.htm>

 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)




___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Of course we don't really know if there was negotiation or not. It says they 
"rejected the group buy offer" but that could mean they rejected the group buy 
OR they rejected the offer. Maybe they counter-offered and it was too rich for 
the group. Just like we don't really know if the groups hope of $20k was just a 
hope or whether they had actually gotten that number from someone at Nisaan.

--Rick

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> I was surprised that Nissan's answer was "No" instead of a counter offer.  
> Entering into a negotiation would have been appropriate.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>> On August 29, 2016 7:50:47 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>> Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first talking
>> to Nissan.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from AltaMail
>> 
>> 
>> From: Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle
>> Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez
>> 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose Date:
>> 8/29/16, 6:27 PM
>> 
>> 
>> One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that  
>> target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that  
>> price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you
>> 
>> would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout
>> how  
>> much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss.  
>> And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when
>> 
>> they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first. 
>> 
>> --Rick 
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: 
>>> In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada
>> set up 
>>> a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially
>> signed 
>>> up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had
>> climbed up 
>>> to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ
>> in 
>>> Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of
>> numbers 
>>> (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the
>> sticker 
>>> price of the car. 
>>> 
>>> The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim.
>> The 
>>> members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan
>> to sell 
>>> the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn
>> of 
>>> events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer
>> and 
>>> effectively shut down the plan.
>> 
>> ___ 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub 
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org 
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ 
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) 
>> 
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160829/e6b10572/attachment.htm>
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first talking to 
Nissan.


Sent from AltaMail


 From: Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To 
Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose Date: 8/29/16, 6:27 PM

 
One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that  
target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that  
price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you  
would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout how  
much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss.  
And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when  
they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first. 
 
--Rick 
 
On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: 
> In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada set up 
> a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially signed 
> up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had climbed up 
> to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ in 
> Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of numbers 
> (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the sticker 
> price of the car. 
> 
> The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim. The 
> members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan to sell 
> the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn of 
> events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer and 
> effectively shut down the plan. 
 
___ 
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub 
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org 
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ 
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) 
 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160829/e6b10572/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Rick Beebe via EV]

One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that 
target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that 
price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you 
would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout how 
much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss. 
And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when 
they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first.


--Rick

On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada set up
a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially signed
up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had climbed up
to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ in
Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of numbers
(almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the sticker
price of the car.

The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim. The
members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan to sell
the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn of
events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer and
effectively shut down the plan.


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://learnbonds.com/130840/tesla-model-3-nissan-leaf/
Nissan Blows it. Say Goodbye to Leaf and Hello to Tesla Model 3
August 25, 2016  Victor Alagbe

[image  
http://learnbonds.com/wp-content/uploads/Tesla-Motors-TSLA-Model-3.jpg
Tesla Motors Model 3
]

Tesla Motors can expect an increase in pre-orders for its mass market Model
3 EV after Nissan made a move that could irk as much as 3700 potential
Nissan Leaf buyers. Tesla’s Model 3 and Nissan’s LEAF are the major EVs
designed for the mass market now. Both Nissan and Tesla have been engaged in
a war of words, marketing, and hype to take the biggest market share for
mass market EVs.  Breaking news suggests that Nissan has made a marketing
mistake that might push potential LEAF buyers out to buy a Model 3.

The economics of a group buy doesn’t make sense for Nissan

In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada set up
a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially signed
up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had climbed up
to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ in
Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of numbers
(almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the sticker
price of the car.

The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim. The
members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan to sell
the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn of
events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer and
effectively shut down the plan.

If Nissan had agreed to the proposal, the firm would have sold each of the
cars at a 37.5% discount to the sticker price. The original $31,988 sticker
price of the Nissan leaf is about $13,000 CAD or 29% cheaper than sticker
price of Tesla‘s Model 3, which sells for $45,200 CAD. It is common
knowledge in the auto market that Nissan is trying to compete with Tesla on
the price front in the EV market.

What Nissan lacks in the premium branding/premium tech of Tesla, it hopes to
make up by making its cars significantly cheaper. Hence, it is doubtful that
Nissan has much of a margin left on the LEAF at its $32,000 sticker price.
Without much ado, Nissan cannot afford to agree to the proposals for the
group-buy but the buyers think Nissan is not serious about selling its cars
to them.

Bye bye Leaf, Hi Tesla Model 3

Nissan could have recorded its biggest auto sale for the LEAF and probably
set a sales record that other automakers might never beat for a very long
time. However, the fact that the firm has refused to slash its prices for
bulk order is sending those Nissan LEAF buyers into the waiting arms of
Tesla Motors.

Roulezelectrique, a Canadian blog that broke the news about Nissan’s refusal
has an official video and statement from Nissan to the effect. Yet, it is
doubtful that Tesla Motors will give any significant discount on its cars
because it already has a backlog of 400K preorders.

Interestingly, many of those who have signed up for the group buy have
expressed their displeasure with Nissan. One of the buyers said,” Nissan has
lost some sales including mine … We’ll wait Tesla3! So long Nissan! “Another
reader said, “I own a 2011 Nissan Leaf and dreamed of a 2016 or 2017 with
the purchase group, but let me tell you that I now look for the Cheverolet
Bolt or Tesla 3. Bye bye Nissan!!!”
[© 2016 LearnBonds]
...
https://transportevolved.com/2016/08/24/president-of-nissan-canada-says-no-to-discounted-leaf-group-buy/
President of Nissan Canada Says 'No' To Discounted LEAF Group Buy
Aug 24, 2016 ... electric car history with a total of more than 3,700 people
signed up to buy a Nissan LEAF across Quebec, Canada. we assumed that the
Japanese automaker ...



http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/12k-Leaf-EV-group-buy-purchase-sign-ups-in-Montreal-ca-have-grown-to-2800-tp4683269.html
$12k Leaf EV group-buy purchase sign-ups in Montreal.ca have grown to 2800+
Aug 13 2016




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Nissan-ca-sez-No-To-Leaf-Group-Buy-ticking-off-3700-EV-buyers-a-lose-lose-tp4683534.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)