Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[evtlfp20 via EV]

On 2019-04-12 20:35, Paul Dove via EV wrote:

Yes it’s Johnson controls. Jehu has them on his ebay page.

https://kit.com/jehu/lithium-battery-sources-july-2018

Maybe send a message to Jehu he might have a spec sheet



I'm not  twtwr or fb  persen is there some way other way to ask him?


also the page says 10C  does that mean  brust or susstained ?
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[evtlfp20 via EV]

Yes it’s Johnson controls. Jehu has them on his ebay page.

https://kit.com/jehu/lithium-battery-sources-july-2018

Maybe send a message to Jehu he might have a spec sheet



I'm looking for a real chart DOD , capity, c ratings, etc.

the seller as very vauge info . I want to plan cafefully .


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[Paul Dove via EV]

Yes it’s Johnson controls. Jehu has them on his ebay page.

https://kit.com/jehu/lithium-battery-sources-july-2018

Maybe send a message to Jehu he might have a spec sheet

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 12, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
> 
> I looked at the website for "Johnson Controls" solar cells, It looks
> sketchy to me.
> Where is the Johnson Controls part number?
> Is this used or off spec hardware?
> "Johnson Controls" is a good name to throw out there, but it seems like
> more information would be available if it really  is the Johnson Controls
> we are used to seeing. Be careful.
> 
> Hopefully some other people here will chime in.
> 
> The working range of Li ion cells depends on the capacity of the cells -
> the actual capacity, not some spec sheet capacity. *You cannot use voltage*
> because the slope of voltage versus state of charge is too flat to be
> useful. A very tiny change in voltage can have a huge change in state of
> charge, this an odd characteristic of Li ion cells..
> 
> I suggest you work out a way to learn the capacity of at least one of your
> cells by measuring it. And if you want the best life then you should
> evaluate all the cells and react accordingly. This is what careful EV
> DIY'ers have been doing for a long time. You back away from this with
> increasing risk according to how much unsubstantiated information you pay
> attention to. If the packs are pre-owned, or not up to spec somehow, you
> really want to look closely at them.
> 
> You say you want to operate your EV within a range of "90% of the power."
> That is a worrisome statement because it is not the right words to use if
> you understand what you are doing.
> 
> This "90% range," do you meant you want to have a discharge cutoff at a 5%
> state of charge, and a charging cutoff at 95% state of charge? You
> definitely want to bottom balance your pack very well, and have consistent
> capacities for all the cells to go this low. If you discharge a cell to 0%
> and keep going, bad things can happen.  If you don't understand what I am
> talking about, please keep learning before proceeding.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 8:46 AM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> there balanced fine, I just want to know where the working range for
>> %90 of the power is. I've heard each chemistry / brand is different. I
>> found a graph for leaf cells NMC like theses.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I am not sure what you want the depth of discharge graph for. The cells
>>> won't be identical and the graph would actually be a band, or range
>>> about
>>> an average DOD.
>>> 
>>> It might be advantageous to measure the capacity of each cell and
>>> return
>>> any that seem to far out from the others. If you are not interested in
>>> that, then you can formulate an useful DOD limit for the pack based on
>>> the
>>> capacities.  I personally thin balancing the pack at the level of
>>> discharge
>>> is best = bottom balancing. Then you can implement a shutoff voltage or
>>> DOD% with some factor of safety, and select a float charge that is not
>>> too
>>> high.
>>> 
>>> This is fairly laborious, but it protects tour investment.
>>> 
>>> A car company like Tesla will control manufacturing processes and have
>>> tight control over the cells construction and capacity,  So they can
>>> build
>>> a pack without laborious balancing and still get good performance. It
>>> is
>>> very hard to get useful information about batteries bought retail,
>>> wholesale or used.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:26 PM evtlfp20 via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
  the company is not giving me very much information. they stat a
 voltage
 range but I'm looking for a DOD graph, they stat NMC chemisrty not not
 much more .
>> https://www.techdirectclub.com/johnson-controls-24-cells-solar-battery-90-vdc-total-2-5-kwh/
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> -- 
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824  Tablet,
> Google Phone and Text
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment 

Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[Michael Ross via EV]

I looked at the website for "Johnson Controls" solar cells, It looks
sketchy to me.
Where is the Johnson Controls part number?
Is this used or off spec hardware?
"Johnson Controls" is a good name to throw out there, but it seems like
more information would be available if it really  is the Johnson Controls
we are used to seeing. Be careful.

Hopefully some other people here will chime in.

The working range of Li ion cells depends on the capacity of the cells -
the actual capacity, not some spec sheet capacity. *You cannot use voltage*
because the slope of voltage versus state of charge is too flat to be
useful. A very tiny change in voltage can have a huge change in state of
charge, this an odd characteristic of Li ion cells..

I suggest you work out a way to learn the capacity of at least one of your
cells by measuring it. And if you want the best life then you should
evaluate all the cells and react accordingly. This is what careful EV
DIY'ers have been doing for a long time. You back away from this with
increasing risk according to how much unsubstantiated information you pay
attention to. If the packs are pre-owned, or not up to spec somehow, you
really want to look closely at them.

You say you want to operate your EV within a range of "90% of the power."
 That is a worrisome statement because it is not the right words to use if
you understand what you are doing.

This "90% range," do you meant you want to have a discharge cutoff at a 5%
state of charge, and a charging cutoff at 95% state of charge? You
definitely want to bottom balance your pack very well, and have consistent
capacities for all the cells to go this low. If you discharge a cell to 0%
and keep going, bad things can happen.  If you don't understand what I am
talking about, please keep learning before proceeding.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 8:46 AM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:

> there balanced fine, I just want to know where the working range for
> %90 of the power is. I've heard each chemistry / brand is different. I
> found a graph for leaf cells NMC like theses.
>
>
>
> > I am not sure what you want the depth of discharge graph for. The cells
> > won't be identical and the graph would actually be a band, or range
> > about
> > an average DOD.
> >
> > It might be advantageous to measure the capacity of each cell and
> > return
> > any that seem to far out from the others. If you are not interested in
> > that, then you can formulate an useful DOD limit for the pack based on
> > the
> > capacities.  I personally thin balancing the pack at the level of
> > discharge
> > is best = bottom balancing. Then you can implement a shutoff voltage or
> > DOD% with some factor of safety, and select a float charge that is not
> > too
> > high.
> >
> > This is fairly laborious, but it protects tour investment.
> >
> > A car company like Tesla will control manufacturing processes and have
> > tight control over the cells construction and capacity,  So they can
> > build
> > a pack without laborious balancing and still get good performance. It
> > is
> > very hard to get useful information about batteries bought retail,
> > wholesale or used.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:26 PM evtlfp20 via EV 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>   the company is not giving me very much information. they stat a
> >> voltage
> >> range but I'm looking for a DOD graph, they stat NMC chemisrty not not
> >> much more .
> >>
> >>
> https://www.techdirectclub.com/johnson-controls-24-cells-solar-battery-90-vdc-total-2-5-kwh/
> >> ___
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>
> >>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[evtlfp20 via EV]

there balanced fine, I just want to know where the working range for  
%90 of the power is. I've heard each chemistry / brand is different. I 
found a graph for leaf cells NMC like theses.





I am not sure what you want the depth of discharge graph for. The cells
won't be identical and the graph would actually be a band, or range 
about

an average DOD.

It might be advantageous to measure the capacity of each cell and 
return

any that seem to far out from the others. If you are not interested in
that, then you can formulate an useful DOD limit for the pack based on 
the
capacities.  I personally thin balancing the pack at the level of 
discharge

is best = bottom balancing. Then you can implement a shutoff voltage or
DOD% with some factor of safety, and select a float charge that is not 
too

high.

This is fairly laborious, but it protects tour investment.

A car company like Tesla will control manufacturing processes and have
tight control over the cells construction and capacity,  So they can 
build
a pack without laborious balancing and still get good performance. It 
is

very hard to get useful information about batteries bought retail,
wholesale or used.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:26 PM evtlfp20 via EV  
wrote:


  the company is not giving me very much information. they stat a 
voltage

range but I'm looking for a DOD graph, they stat NMC chemisrty not not
much more .

https://www.techdirectclub.com/johnson-controls-24-cells-solar-battery-90-vdc-total-2-5-kwh/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[Michael Ross via EV]

I am not sure what you want the depth of discharge graph for. The cells
won't be identical and the graph would actually be a band, or range about
an average DOD.

It might be advantageous to measure the capacity of each cell and return
any that seem to far out from the others. If you are not interested in
that, then you can formulate an useful DOD limit for the pack based on the
capacities.  I personally thin balancing the pack at the level of discharge
is best = bottom balancing. Then you can implement a shutoff voltage or
DOD% with some factor of safety, and select a float charge that is not too
high.

This is fairly laborious, but it protects tour investment.

A car company like Tesla will control manufacturing processes and have
tight control over the cells construction and capacity,  So they can build
a pack without laborious balancing and still get good performance. It is
very hard to get useful information about batteries bought retail,
wholesale or used.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:26 PM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:

>   the company is not giving me very much information. they stat a voltage
> range but I'm looking for a DOD graph, they stat NMC chemisrty not not
> much more .
>
> https://www.techdirectclub.com/johnson-controls-24-cells-solar-battery-90-vdc-total-2-5-kwh/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] battery cell information johnson 24s cells

[evtlfp20 via EV]

 the company is not giving me very much information. they stat a voltage 
range but I'm looking for a DOD graph, they stat NMC chemisrty not not 
much more .

https://www.techdirectclub.com/johnson-controls-24-cells-solar-battery-90-vdc-total-2-5-kwh/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)