Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
The nanoFlowCell claims are great but the website reads to me like a load of waffle with the occasionally inserted pseudo science word. I've just come across a presentation video and they actually have fully developed cars, leather and wood interior etc. Some poor gullible sod has splashed the cash on this. I'm currently in the process of starting a new company and I'm intrigued that this "method" actually gets investors. No one that I've approached for investment would fall for this. Maybe I need to increase the bullshit! Would anyone like to invest in my cars? They run on hopes and dreams. One good nights sleep and some optimism will get you over 300 miles range. 07966 806 727 On 17 February 2017 at 09:42, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > George, > Please try to imagine the specs that this vehicle is supposed to > achieve. > For sustained 300 km/h you need in the order of 250 kW continuous at > minimum > and while that is possible with a Tesla with its mega battery pack, it > is not usual for other vehicles to be able to do this. > In fact, the website actually says that all performance EVs have trouble > with cooling since motor and battery heat up during fast acceleration, > but somehow by magic they claim that this 48 Volt drivetrain does not > suffer from excessive heating during their top-performance acceleration! > That is not just ignoring the Laws of Physics, it is actually directly > contradicting them! > The claim is 2.4 sec 0-60 time in a low slung 4-seater car. > And they indicate that they need 6 fuel cells working in parallel (they > say "series") to give the power to make this acceleration happen and > increase the range - which apparently also means 6 storage tanks. (range > for a fuel cell comes from its storage). > Please tell me where in that sleek prototype you would be able to hide 6 > storage tanks as well as 6 fuel cells and the controllers to send 5,000 > Amps to the motor(s) via arm-thick cables > It is not just unlikely, it is simply an exercise in futility. > It is typical investor-bait to show sleek renders, a partial completed > foam model prototype, almost-impossible specs that (on paper) compete > with the best technology and engineering in the field and on top of that > to introduce a host of non-existent problems that you are solving > without mentioning how you are solving the real problems, such as fuel > cells needing a sizeable battery to account for peak performance, since > fuel cells are typically dimensioned for average power output, to reduce > cost and size and weight. > Look at the Toyota Mirai - it has a large bulk to allow all the > technology required for the fuel cell to find a spot in a car and it > certainly is not a supercar. How can you shoe-horn 6 times that system > into a sleek sports car? > Not gonna happen. > But I suggest you do your own due diligence, I have seen more than > enough red flags from this > singer-turned-inventor-turned-solarcar-fraudster that I will stop > wasting my energy on his claims right now. > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > http://www.proxim.com > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > this message is prohibited. > > > -Original Message----- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of George Tyler > via EV > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:25 PM > To: 'Peri Hartman'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? > > Some time ago I discussed a system on here this was similar in a way, > trying to reduce the number of cells. I talkinged about going all the > way, ONE cell. 10,000 Amps at 4V for an exercise. There are fets now > that are 1mOhm or below, I had many phases in my proposal, so does this. > Many phases will be on at the same time, so effectively in parallel. The > fact that they talk of 45 phases makes me reluctance to call "scam!", It > may be real. > > > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman > via EV > Sent: 17 February, 2017 4:47 AM > To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? > > I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems > working in parallel, each with their own motor or you wou
Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
George, Please try to imagine the specs that this vehicle is supposed to achieve. For sustained 300 km/h you need in the order of 250 kW continuous at minimum and while that is possible with a Tesla with its mega battery pack, it is not usual for other vehicles to be able to do this. In fact, the website actually says that all performance EVs have trouble with cooling since motor and battery heat up during fast acceleration, but somehow by magic they claim that this 48 Volt drivetrain does not suffer from excessive heating during their top-performance acceleration! That is not just ignoring the Laws of Physics, it is actually directly contradicting them! The claim is 2.4 sec 0-60 time in a low slung 4-seater car. And they indicate that they need 6 fuel cells working in parallel (they say "series") to give the power to make this acceleration happen and increase the range - which apparently also means 6 storage tanks. (range for a fuel cell comes from its storage). Please tell me where in that sleek prototype you would be able to hide 6 storage tanks as well as 6 fuel cells and the controllers to send 5,000 Amps to the motor(s) via arm-thick cables It is not just unlikely, it is simply an exercise in futility. It is typical investor-bait to show sleek renders, a partial completed foam model prototype, almost-impossible specs that (on paper) compete with the best technology and engineering in the field and on top of that to introduce a host of non-existent problems that you are solving without mentioning how you are solving the real problems, such as fuel cells needing a sizeable battery to account for peak performance, since fuel cells are typically dimensioned for average power output, to reduce cost and size and weight. Look at the Toyota Mirai - it has a large bulk to allow all the technology required for the fuel cell to find a spot in a car and it certainly is not a supercar. How can you shoe-horn 6 times that system into a sleek sports car? Not gonna happen. But I suggest you do your own due diligence, I have seen more than enough red flags from this singer-turned-inventor-turned-solarcar-fraudster that I will stop wasting my energy on his claims right now. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of George Tyler via EV Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:25 PM To: 'Peri Hartman'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? Some time ago I discussed a system on here this was similar in a way, trying to reduce the number of cells. I talkinged about going all the way, ONE cell. 10,000 Amps at 4V for an exercise. There are fets now that are 1mOhm or below, I had many phases in my proposal, so does this. Many phases will be on at the same time, so effectively in parallel. The fact that they talk of 45 phases makes me reluctance to call "scam!", It may be real. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: 17 February, 2017 4:47 AM To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems working in parallel, each with their own motor or you would need cables the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete story. They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks or where the hydrogen comes from, either. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses >of the word. > >Headline: >300 km/h in The World's First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage >Flow Cell Drive > >First para: >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable. >Having >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell >in October 2016, the company now wants to demonstr
Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
Some time ago I discussed a system on here this was similar in a way, trying to reduce the number of cells. I talkinged about going all the way, ONE cell. 10,000 Amps at 4V for an exercise. There are fets now that are 1mOhm or below, I had many phases in my proposal, so does this. Many phases will be on at the same time, so effectively in parallel. The fact that they talk of 45 phases makes me reluctance to call "scam!", It may be real. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: 17 February, 2017 4:47 AM To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems working in parallel, each with their own motor or you would need cables the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete story. They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks or where the hydrogen comes from, either. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses >of the word. > >Headline: >300 km/h in The World’s First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage >Flow Cell Drive > >First para: >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable. >Having >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell >in October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of >direct fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of >the world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype >of a new generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is >currently the safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and >economical drive system for electric vehicles that could be built in >series production, and provides a view of our future mobility. > >http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-firs >t-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/ > > >07966 806 727 >-- next part -- An HTML attachment was >scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170216/d3f >54e4a/attachment.htm> ___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
As much as I want to hear more positive news about new and exciting ideas about increasing efficiency and reducing our impact on the planet, it pains me to continue to waste time and energy on technologies that have been been debunked exhaustively over and over again. Gotta give the old boys points for tenacity though -Tom On Feb 16, 2017 9:51 AM, "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Before we get too deep into the fantasy world of > how-to-get-new-investors for cases where the science is too good to be > true (literally) and thus you need inexperienced investors and slick > publications with big difficult sounding words all the while solving > non-existent problems, to focus away from the real problem that you are > not solving Here is a discussion on TeslaMotorsClub about the car > and the person. > I could give you a piece of my mind about the technology and claims as I > found them on their website, but I am not going to bother to spill more > words on this apparent fraudster. > > https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/nanoflowcell-quant-quantino.2823 > 9/ > > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > http://www.proxim.com > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > this message is prohibited. > > > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman > via EV > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:47 AM > To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle DiscussionList > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? > > I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems > working in parallel, each with their own motor or you would need cables > the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that > various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of > electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high > current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete > story. > > They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks > or where the hydrogen comes from, either. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Cc: > Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM > Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? > > >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses > > >of > >the word. > > > >Headline: > >300 km/h in The World's First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage > >Flow Cell Drive > > > >First para: > >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had > >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable. > >Having > >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell > >in > >October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of > >direct > >fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of the > >world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype of a > >new > >generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is currently > >the > >safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and economical drive > >system for electric vehicles that could be built in series production, > >and > >provides a view of our future mobility. > > > >http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-firs > t-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/ > > > > > >07966 806 727 > >-- next part -- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: > ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170216/d3f > 54e4a/attachment.htm> > >___ > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAng
Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
Before we get too deep into the fantasy world of how-to-get-new-investors for cases where the science is too good to be true (literally) and thus you need inexperienced investors and slick publications with big difficult sounding words all the while solving non-existent problems, to focus away from the real problem that you are not solving Here is a discussion on TeslaMotorsClub about the car and the person. I could give you a piece of my mind about the technology and claims as I found them on their website, but I am not going to bother to spill more words on this apparent fraudster. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/nanoflowcell-quant-quantino.2823 9/ Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:47 AM To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle DiscussionList Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems working in parallel, each with their own motor or you would need cables the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete story. They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks or where the hydrogen comes from, either. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims? >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses >of >the word. > >Headline: >300 km/h in The World's First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage >Flow Cell Drive > >First para: >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable. >Having >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell >in >October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of >direct >fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of the >world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype of a >new >generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is currently >the >safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and economical drive >system for electric vehicles that could be built in series production, >and >provides a view of our future mobility. > >http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-firs t-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/ > > >07966 806 727 >-- next part -- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170216/d3f 54e4a/attachment.htm> >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
