Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Thanks Doc! You said it and gave the reasons for it. Which for me means, that 
Freeman Dyson's suggestion that the best thing scientists can do to better 
understand things is to improve the equipment they use to observe. Telescope 
improvement means observations improvement. How can we get to an outside region 
of spacetime would appeal only to a sci-fi head as myself, strictly for the 
non-professional. Eternal Inflation seems quasi religious as in transcendental, 
and we mammals seem not built for this neurologically.  Perhaps (again science 
fiction) when we someday link to AI, we, as a new species may be grooving on 
the Inflationary Eternity, in the  Everett/DeWitt/Wheeler wonderfulness of it 
all? 
My guess is that if this is not an existential disaster for us, it'd be akin to 
us forming another brain section. The Machinery would like the emotionalism of 
being us, we'd like the braininess of being it. Like peanut butter and 
chocolate or chocolate plus peanut butter. 


Much thank,
Spud, the gourmand. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 6:46 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is that 
it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This period from 
10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by 60-efolds or e^{60} ~ 
10^{26}. Hence, information at that time corresponding to any curvature or 
other spacetime data was enormously stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at 
10^{-35}, was stretched to 10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state 
gravitons. This was in a region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we 
can read it is imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for 
this are now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we 
can observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is 
being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for 
gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}! 
The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the vacuum 
state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued structure and what 
we observe in this universe is one of them. These other cosmogonies for all we 
know may just be radiative corrections to the universe we observe. They would 
be off-shell conditions, similar to interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I 
think this is mostly likely the case with high energy vacuum conditions on 
these other cosmogonies. The problem is that we will have a very difficult time 
knowing which of these alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos 
emerged in or from a de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is 
"eternally inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the 
observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure. 
LC

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment 
values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated an 
infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for hundreds of 
billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? Axions, virtual 
photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black holes, dimensions? One 
of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply what maps provided ancient 
cartographers, "Here be dragons."
Spud, Cartographically speaking...


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be honest I 
am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} spacetimes or 
cosmogonies.
LC

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as 
informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest. 
F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. Anyone 
willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

This is F-theory I presume.
LC

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
rtu
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Re: The collapse of bitcoin

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

The aha on your energy observation seemingly would be resolved by huge 
electricity making. I will list the electricity makings that are likely to be 
ginormous if perfected?MSR's for U235 & Th232-->U233FusionWide scale on 
rooftops SolarWind Turbines at Sea whose potential = 11 times the 2018 global 
production (IEA 2019)Solar Power Satellites (a Gerard O'Neil fav) Beamed power 
from the moon (same as SPS) a Criswell fav, now a Japanese favDeep hot rock 
geothermal. 

You could also look at AI driving down manufacturing costsBioSource materials 
Mining the Asteroid Belt for rare earths. 
"You can keep your Marxist ways, cuz its only just a phase,For it's Money Money 
MoneyMakes the world go round!Money Money Money Money Money!Monty Python's 
Money Song (with lyrics) - YouTube
Adieu!

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: The collapse of bitcoin

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:27 AM Lawrence Crowell 
 wrote:

> Currencies are in some ways just as artificial as cryptocurrencies. In fact, 
> most everything humans chase after is spun up as whole cloth, from countries, 
> to gods, to money to belief in comrades in arms and so forth. Most everything 
> humanity does is ultimately fake. Money is stuff we just "make up." Even the 
> value of gold is something we "make up." We might be better off if we stopped 
> making this crap up.

Barter is impractical so money comes in handy. Gold has retained its value over 
the centuries because it's still rare due to the fact that we haven't found a 
practical way to transmute elements on an industrial scale, but all 
cryptocurrencies have a fundamental problem, they are all based on the 
difficulty of making calculations and we certainly have found a way to make 
calculations  on an industrial scale  Bitcoin has an additional problem, the 
absurd amount of energy required for even a simple transaction. Quantum 
Computers could probably significantly lower that energy bill but quantum 
computers could probably also crack elliptic encryption which bitcoin uses. So 
I think the future of bitcoin is going to be pretty bleak. 
   John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
lns
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Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

[Lawrence Crowell]

One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is 
that it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This 
period from 10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by 
60-efolds or e^{60} ~ 10^{26}. Hence, information at that time 
corresponding to any curvature or other spacetime data was enormously 
stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at 10^{-35}, was stretched to 
10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state gravitons. This was in a 
region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we can read it is 
imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for this are 
now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we can 
observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is 
being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for 
gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}! 

The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the 
vacuum state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued 
structure and what we observe in this universe is one of them. These other 
cosmogonies for all we know may just be radiative corrections to the 
universe we observe. They would be off-shell conditions, similar to 
interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I think this is mostly likely the 
case with high energy vacuum conditions on these other cosmogonies. The 
problem is that we will have a very difficult time knowing which of these 
alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos emerged in or from a 
de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is "eternally 
inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the 
observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure. 

LC

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment 
> values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated 
> an infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for 
> hundreds of billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? 
> Axions, virtual photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black 
> holes, dimensions? One of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply 
> what maps provided ancient cartographers, "Here be dragons." 
>
> Spud, Cartographically speaking...
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be 
> honest I am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} 
> spacetimes or cosmogonies. 
>
> LC
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as 
> informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest.  
>
> F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. 
> Anyone willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> This is F-theory I presume. 
>
> LC
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile 
> 
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> 
> rtu
>
> -- 
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> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. 
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
>  
> .
>
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Re: The collapse of bitcoin

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:27 AM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Currencies are in some ways just as artificial as cryptocurrencies. In
> fact, most everything humans chase after is spun up as whole cloth, from
> countries, to gods, to money to belief in comrades in arms and so forth.
> Most everything humanity does is ultimately fake. Money is stuff we just
> "make up." Even the value of gold is something we "make up." We might be
> better off if we stopped making this crap up.
>

Barter is impractical so money comes in handy. Gold has retained its value
over the centuries because it's still rare due to the fact that we haven't
found a practical way to transmute elements on an industrial scale, but all
 cryptocurrencies have a fundamental problem, they are all based on the
difficulty of making calculations and we certainly have found a way to make
calculations  on an industrial scale  Bitcoin has an additional problem,
the absurd amount of energy required for even a simple transaction. Quantum
Computers could probably significantly lower that energy bill but quantum
computers could probably also crack elliptic encryption which bitcoin uses.
So I think the future of bitcoin is going to be pretty bleak.

   John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

lns

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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

For me, pagan is an anagram for solar energy technology. Perovskite And Gallium 
Arsenide Nitride. 

Flexible all-perovskite tandem solar cells with a 24.7% efficiency 
(techxplore.com)
See? I have squared the circle, without a word about Cartesian Dualism. 

Can I hear an Amen?
-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral 
College

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 2:08 PM Philip Benjamin  wrote:


> Augustine, a pagan [...]

You scared me for a minute, the world seemed entirely out of whack because you 
wrote three entire sentences without using the word "pagan" , but I shouldn't 
have worried, you used it in the fourth sentence even though you are not able 
to provide a single example of something, anything, that is NOT a "pagan". 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
9uy
 









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Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Well, speaking as a trumpist, I would say the 'human' pov is essential, and I 
would wholeheartedly agree with the suffering person, over the doctrinaire 
religious teachings, IF that suffering person would benefit by my pity? That is 
the questionable aspect, the IF??? For me, the afterlife-compensation belief 
may have some benefit for many, and I would claim it's even more effective IF 
based on the physics? This seems to work ok, for the atheist, as well as the 
religious, or even those of us flailing in between. For many others the 
"Apologist," writings may work? Maybe? For many more, not really. I am a 
pragmatist so if anything can help the sufferer, I am good with it.



-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

 
 
 On 7/11/2022 1:10 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Part of it for some is notion that one cannot offend the Guy upstairs, or 
invoke the wrath of one's fellows, whether a religion or ideology.  
  My personal favorite dream after I win the lotto, would be to pay a physicist 
lots of money to come up with a scientifically plausible theory for God, the 
afterlife, & and everything.   
 If it's a theory for God it must include miracles, since that's sort of the 
defining power of God.  Once there are miracles the physics of the theory is 
complete.  Of course there's the ethical question of whether one should worship 
a God who's cruel and narcissistic, but that's not a question for a physicist, 
nor a problem for a Trumpist.
 
 Brent
 
 
  The writer would be given the option to write on the frontispiece: "Look, I 
believe this is bullshit, but I'm being paid lots of money to come up with 
this, so yeah, I sold out. I am a loyal atheist, and don't care much for people 
who waste their damn time thinking about a fantasy! But, I can find a good use 
for the cash he's paying me, so, sue me!"  
  In this manner, the physicist would be insulated from the wrath of his 
employer and colleagues. "So fire me, I could use the vacation time going to 
AAAS meetings, break my heart."  
  I mean this would be like a super Templeton Prize, but more profitable.  
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Lawrence Crowell 
 To: Everything List 
 Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:23 am
 Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement
 
  
 
  On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 4:53:42 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:42 PM  wrote:
  
  
 > Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about the 
 > real world 
 
 And the New Testament, the Torah, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the 
writings of L Ron Hubbard, and the authors of every other scientific ignoramus 
who wrote "Holy Scriptures" are unimaginative speculations about an unreal 
world. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
 tbb 
 
 
  
  These things are mythic narratives.  As for travels and descriptions of 
places in the world, sure there were travelers who told of these places. This 
mentality is the antithesis of real thought. Bertrand Russel met Vladimir 
Ilyich Lenin and was struck by how Lenin could not talk outside the bounds of 
Marxist thinking. It was as if he was a prisoner of this ideology. Religion is 
similar, it is a "mind forged manacle" the imprisons the mind so it can not 
longer really think. 
  LC 
uzp  
    
 On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 12:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote: 

  
 > I don't see refutation of by scriptures, 
 
  I don't see why anybody should care what the scriptures have to say about 
transhumanism given that they were written by members of a bronze age tribe who 
didn't even know where the sun went at night; transhumanism is about the 
physical world, how on Earth could anybody expect wisdom about that from them?  
   
   
  
   
   
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Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 2:08 PM Philip Benjamin 
wrote:

*> Augustine, a pagan* [...]


You scared me for a minute, the world seemed entirely out of whack because you
wrote three entire sentences without using the word "pagan" , but I
shouldn't have worried, you used it in the fourth sentence even though you
are not able to provide a single example of something, anything, that is
NOT a "pagan".

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

9uy










>

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Re: The collapse of bitcoin

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I tend to agree, and as blue oyster shells were exchanged as currency in the 
South Pacific islands (Blue Oyster Cult- more, cowbell!), the Australian guy 
(with a fake Japanese name) invented The Coin. My own thinking is human 
inventiveness in the 21st century might create electronic currencies based on 
technological creations and their means to extract "Valued items," for what is 
now inaccessible? 
Examples?AI driving down the costs of recycling materials.Also-Mushroom 
building materialsThe Science And Art Of Sustainable Mushroom-Based Building 
Materials (forbes.com)Rare Earth Elements from dirty old coalRare Earths From 
Coal Ash Using A Coca-Cola Ingredient? Sandia Says Maybe (forbes.com)Lunar 
MiningThe Lunar Gold Rush: How Moon Mining Could Work (nasa.gov)If somehow, the 
demand for petroleum persists for decades more, the US has shale oil if we can 
figure out a magical way or extracting it?Oil reserves in the United States - 
Wikipedia

There must be more examples? In any case, a currency based on expected 
extractable resources, especially renewable resources may work just fine! Back 
in the 70's A.C. Clarke used "solar's" for currency. 

S. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 11:26 am
Subject: The collapse of bitcoin

Currencies are in some ways just asartificial as cryptocurrencies. In fact, 
most everything humans chase after isspun up as whole cloth, from countries, to 
gods, to money to belief in comradesin arms and so forth. Most everything 
humanity does is ultimately fake. Moneyis stuff we just "make up." Even the 
value of gold is something we"make up." We might be better off if we stopped 
making this crap up. However, with currencies at least in arepresentative 
system the average person has some impact. The crypto-currencytrend has been 
the culmination of Milton Friedman's strange dream ofprivatizing almost 
everything. In that setting the average person only has asmuch power in the 
system as what they hold. An Elon Musk or Bezos etc hasvastly more and so they 
not only have more power, they have more power to getmore. A world of complete 
private forms of currencies is one that will lead toa sort of monetary 
feudalism. There will at some point be a few people,financial institutions and 
banks that own it all. They would come to be theoverlords of the world. The 
collapse of the cryptocurrenciesand bitcoin is something of some relief to me. 
The next dark age may beforestalled a few years at least. LC-- 
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Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment 
values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated an 
infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for hundreds of 
billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? Axions, virtual 
photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black holes, dimensions? One 
of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply what maps provided ancient 
cartographers, "Here be dragons."
Spud, Cartographically speaking...


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be honest I 
am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} spacetimes or 
cosmogonies.
LC

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as 
informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest. 
F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. Anyone 
willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?

This is F-theory I presume.
LC

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
rtu
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FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[Philip Benjamin]

general_the...@googlegroups.com  
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral 
College

[Philip Benjamin]
  All evidences seem to indicate tis is a human problem, no animals 
areagitated over fictitious deities. None of the rplies address the real human 
problem. The brains of most animals are not all that different from humans’. 
You may shift the problem to neural patterns etc., but that does not answer the 
question, why? What, nor even how, is not the subject here. Existence is 
antecedent to experience. Awakened experience follows awakened existence. That 
is how Augustine, a pagan, hedonist scholar in Platonism became an exegete of 
Theology ( centered around Adonai of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles)!
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:11 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral 
College


" How can fictitious deities really do anything at all?"



But they do, because what we believe in we become. Belief is the most important 
thing we have, it creates civilisations, buildings, behaviour, art, food, 
literature, plays, music, poems, ethics, morals . Take away a man's 
house and car and he will be upset for a while. But take away his beliefs and 
you destroy him.

Imposing belief systems is as destructive as waging war on them. You kill their 
spirit.






-- Original Message --
From: "Philip Benjamin" 
mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com" 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, 11 Jul, 22 At 20:28
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral 
College
[Olaf Stapledon]
” The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded 
themselves upon me,…”
[Philip Benjamin]
This is off the thread here. However, I will try to retain the thought. Prof 
Olaf is fundamentally wrong here and logically inconsistent. How can fictitious 
deities really do anything at all? Human life ( for that matter any life) is 
more than a bunch of fundamental particles. That is why even unreal and 
fictitious deities occupy human minds! How could any race or individual 
intrinsically come up with any fictitious notions of a friendly or hostile 
deity? Why can’t any mind be absolutely blank of any such thinking? He looks 
like endorsing one of those Israeli/Jewish women of Jeremiah’s days who said: ” 
As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will 
not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out 
of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out 
drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and 
our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then 
had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil”.
The word pagan got into Queen’s English not by the KJV, instead heathen is used 
by KJV for anything outside the domain of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) 
Elohim (uni-plural). See Joshua 24:2. Even Terah, the father of Abraham, and 
the father of Nachor had one of those deities.They were all heathen/pagan. 
Regeneration from old heathenism to new-creation in Adonai is what Apostolic or 
Augustinian transformation is all about. Like it or not, That, not Prof. Olaf 
Stapledon, is what distinguished the nonconformist West in general from the 
rest of the world which conformed to various deities of various races, peoples 
and nations—including Jungian sorceries, occultism of Monk Rasputin, Madame 
Blavatsky etc.
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>> 
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral 
College
You know Philip I think it is rather difficult not to love the earth, but it is 
possible to love the earth and trust the God who created it and will destroy 
it. …. There is one writer who seemed to sum up this form of duality – Olaf 
Stapledon, a science fiction writer and University lecturer: Two related quotes 
…… The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded 
themselves upon me, symbols of majesty and tenderness, of ruthless power, of 
blind creativity and of all seeing wisdom. And though their images were but the 
fantasies of created minds, it seemed to me that one and all did indeed embody 
some true features of the Star Maker's impact. 
...
Suddenly it was clear to me that virtue in the Creator is not the same as 
virtue in the Creation. For the Creator if he should love his creation would be 
loving only a part of himself, but the creation praising the creator 

Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

[Lawrence Crowell]

Total rubbish. The electric universe stuff is pure garbage and zombie 
science.

LC

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:21:22 AM UTC-5 Samiya wrote:

> Thunderbolts 
> https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/thunderbolts.html 
>
>
>
> On 12-Jul-2022, at 1:11 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
> Part of it for some is notion that one cannot offend the Guy upstairs, or 
> invoke the wrath of one's fellows, whether a religion or ideology.  
>
> My personal favorite dream after I win the lotto, would be to pay a 
> physicist lots of money to come up with a scientifically plausible theory 
> for God, the afterlife, & and everything. The writer would be given the 
> option to write on the frontispiece: "Look, I believe this is bullshit, 
> but I'm being paid lots of money to come up with this, so yeah, I sold out. 
> I am a loyal atheist, and don't care much for people who waste their damn 
> time thinking about a fantasy! But, I can find a good use for the cash he's 
> paying me, so, sue me!" 
>
> In this manner, the physicist would be insulated from the wrath of his 
> employer and colleagues. "So fire me, I could use the vacation time going 
> to AAAS meetings, break my heart." 
>
> I mean this would be like a super Templeton Prize, but more profitable. 
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:23 am
> Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 4:53:42 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:42 PM  wrote:
>
> *> Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about 
> the real world*
>
>
> And the New Testament, the Torah, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the 
> writings of L Ron Hubbard, and the authors of every other scientific 
> ignoramus who wrote "Holy Scriptures" are unimaginative speculations about 
> an unreal world.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> 
> tbb
>
>
>
> These things are mythic narratives.  As for travels and descriptions of 
> places in the world, sure there were travelers who told of these places. 
> This mentality is the antithesis of real thought. Bertrand Russel met 
> Vladimir Ilyich Lenin and was struck by how Lenin could not talk outside 
> the bounds of Marxist thinking. It was as if he was a prisoner of this 
> ideology. Religion is similar, it is a "mind forged manacle" the imprisons 
> the mind so it can not longer really think.
>
> LC
>
> uzp
>
>  
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 12:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: 
>
>
> *> I don't see refutation of by scriptures,*
>
>
> I don't see why anybody should care what the scriptures have to say about 
> transhumanism given that they were written by members of a bronze age tribe 
> who didn't even know where the sun went at night; transhumanism is about 
> the physical world, how on Earth could anybody expect wisdom about that from 
> them? 
>  
>
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ee4aa913-166f-4cb6-966b-4289a5091d8en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
>  
> .
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/558453049.37807.1657570258237%40mail.yahoo.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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The collapse of bitcoin

[Lawrence Crowell]

Currencies are in some ways just as artificial as cryptocurrencies. In 
fact, most everything humans chase after is spun up as whole cloth, from 
countries, to gods, to money to belief in comrades in arms and so forth. 
Most everything humanity does is ultimately fake. Money is stuff we just 
"make up." Even the value of gold is something we "make up." We might be 
better off if we stopped making this crap up.

 However, with currencies at least in a representative system the average 
person has some impact. The crypto-currency trend has been the culmination 
of Milton Friedman's strange dream of privatizing almost everything. In 
that setting the average person only has as much power in the system as 
what they hold. An Elon Musk or Bezos etc has vastly more and so they not 
only have more power, they have more power to get more. A world of complete 
private forms of currencies is one that will lead to a sort of monetary 
feudalism. There will at some point be a few people, financial institutions 
and banks that own it all. They would come to be the overlords of the world.

 The collapse of the cryptocurrencies and bitcoin is something of some 
relief to me. The next dark age may be forestalled a few years at least.

 LC

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Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

[Samiya Illias]

Thunderbolts 
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/thunderbolts.html 



> On 12-Jul-2022, at 1:11 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Part of it for some is notion that one cannot offend the Guy upstairs, or 
> invoke the wrath of one's fellows, whether a religion or ideology. 
> 
> My personal favorite dream after I win the lotto, would be to pay a physicist 
> lots of money to come up with a scientifically plausible theory for God, the 
> afterlife, & and everything. The writer would be given the option to write on 
> the frontispiece: "Look, I believe this is bullshit, but I'm being paid lots 
> of money to come up with this, so yeah, I sold out. I am a loyal atheist, and 
> don't care much for people who waste their damn time thinking about a 
> fantasy! But, I can find a good use for the cash he's paying me, so, sue 
> me!" 
> 
> In this manner, the physicist would be insulated from the wrath of his 
> employer and colleagues. "So fire me, I could use the vacation time going to 
> AAAS meetings, break my heart." 
> 
> I mean this would be like a super Templeton Prize, but more profitable. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:23 am
> Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 4:53:42 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:42 PM  wrote:
> 
> > Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about the 
> > real world
> 
> And the New Testament, the Torah, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the writings 
> of L Ron Hubbard, and the authors of every other scientific ignoramus who 
> wrote "Holy Scriptures" are unimaginative speculations about an unreal world.
> 
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> tbb
> 
> 
> 
> These things are mythic narratives.  As for travels and descriptions of 
> places in the world, sure there were travelers who told of these places. This 
> mentality is the antithesis of real thought. Bertrand Russel met Vladimir 
> Ilyich Lenin and was struck by how Lenin could not talk outside the bounds of 
> Marxist thinking. It was as if he was a prisoner of this ideology. Religion 
> is similar, it is a "mind forged manacle" the imprisons the mind so it can 
> not longer really think.
> 
> LC
> uzp
> 
>  
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 12:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > I don't see refutation of by scriptures,
> 
> I don't see why anybody should care what the scriptures have to say about 
> transhumanism given that they were written by members of a bronze age tribe 
> who didn't even know where the sun went at night; transhumanism is about the 
> physical world, how on Earth could anybody expect wisdom about that from 
> them? 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
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> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
> -- 
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