Re: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As Augustin Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate

[Samiya Illias]

… 

Holy Quran 56:71
--
أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ النَّارَ الَّتِي تُورُونَ

And have you seen the fire that you ignite? 

Holy Quran 56:72
--
أَأَنتُمْ أَنشَأْتُمْ شَجَرَتَهَا أَمْ نَحْنُ الْمُنشِئُونَ

Is it you who produced its tree, or are We the producer? 

Holy Quran 56:73
--
نَحْنُ جَعَلْنَاهَا تَذْكِرَةً وَمَتَاعًا لِّلْمُقْوِينَ

We have made it a reminder and provision for the travelers, 

Holy Quran 56:74
--
فَسَبِّحْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الْعَظِيمِ

So exalt the name of your Lord, the Most Great. 


> On 16-Jul-2022, at 12:16 AM, Philip Benjamin  wrote:
> 
> 
> [Philip Benjamin]
>  A couple more examples of pseudoscience from “Un-awakened 
> consciousness”(UC):
> 1. Prof. Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about male 
> pregnancy 'transphobic'.
> 2. “Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going and makes 
> big promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate change (The 
> damage from climate change is already worse than most models predicted) The 
> U.S. has taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and women’s health…”
> Philip Benjamin
> Nonconformist to Socialist Fascist Marxist (SOFAMA) pagan globalism.
>CC. Prof. Khiara Bridges
> ~~
>About 150 years (50 years past & 100 years future) of fossil fuel use 
> equals a meager ~ 5.1 trillion tons of CO2 (from World Bank data, see below). 
> An estimated 1,050 wildfires worldwide produced global CO2 emissions of 76 
> billion tons in 2021. There are at least 5000 years of recorded history, i.e 
> 76 billions X 5,000 = 380 trillion tons of CO2. Add to it ~ 3.2 trillion tons 
> for the same period from volcanic eruptions (see below), thus totaling 383.2 
> trillions of CO2. The earth did survive  at least for 5000 years, with 383 
> trillion tons of CO2!!
>  
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/a-sad-bill-gates-makes-a-huge-announcement/
>  Billionaire Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going 
> and makes big promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate 
> change (The damage from climate change is already worse than most models 
> predicted) The U.S. has taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and 
> women’s health…
> https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/sen-hawley-called-transphobic-in-heated-exchange-with-woke-prof-over-pregnancy/
>   Law professor Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about 
> pregnancy 'transphobic'
>   Sen. Josh Hawley got into a heated exchange with a Berkeley law professor 
> about her use of the phrase “people with a capacity for pregnancy​” during a 
> Senate hearing about abortion.
> “We can recognize that this impacts women while also recognizing that it 
> impacts other groups, those things are not mutually exclusive, Sen. Hawley,” 
> said Bridges, who was testifying as an expert in race and reproductive rights.
> The senator then asked what she believed was the “core of this right.”
> ~~
> Subject: FW: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As 
> Augustin Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate
>  everything-list@googlegroups.com; general_the...@googlegroups.com  
> [Philip Benjamin]  Definitions of WAMP, ‘Awakening’ etc. are given toward the 
> bottom.
> Chemical equation of combustion of the petroleum hydrocarbons is generally: 
> CnH 2n+2 +(1 +3n) [O]  → n CO2 +(n + 1) H 2O, where ‘n’ ranges from 6 to 10; 
> n=8 is octane, 9 is diesel oil, 10 is aviation fuel. For the simplest methane 
> (n=1) it is CH4+ [4 O]  -> CO2+ 2 H2O+ energy..  For each C atom introduced, 
> 4 O atoms (i.e. 2 O2 molecules) are removed from the atmosphere, potentially 
> causing an oxygen depletion which will be disastrous, but never occurred. The 
> carbon cycle takes care of that contingency. There  are over 6000 byproducts 
> of oil and gas industries, very essential for civilized life, from 
> pharmaceuticals to fertilizers, none of which is available from wind and 
> solar energy productions.  
> Pagan WAMP GIGO computer models will not and cannot give a threshold 
> danger level of CO2. The greenhouse effect is for a closed system, unlike the 
> open earth’s atmosphere which is subject to all kinds of external causes 
> (ultraviolet, cosmic rays, solar flares, sunspots etc.). Both CO2 gas and H2O 
> vapor absorb infrared rays, but the H2O is eventually condensed into liquid 
> water (causing no catastrophic rise in sea levels, from any meteorology 
> department which is the only division accredited for climate or weather 
> science). 
>   The greenhouse effect traps heat (infrared rays from sun’s light) close 
> to the “goldilocks” Earth's surface by “greenhouse gases and vapors”, which 
> include CO2, CH4,  NO & NO2, and H2O vapor. These respond physically or 
> chemically to changes in temperatures--  a "feedback" effect. 

Re: Do the laws of physics allow an infinite number of calculations?

[Lawrence Crowell]

My point is that with a cosmology we do not have the same sort of 
scientific observership role. We can observe a sample space of black holes, 
gravitational waves etc, but this is not quite the same with cosmologies. 
We observer only one, and it does not permit localization of mass-energy, 
and at best we may be able to infer a few things from the so-called 
multiverse by some fingerprints in the CMB. We are faced with a different 
limitation to what we can observe and know. 

LC

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 12:51:45 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> I wonder if we had Master Schrodinger's Meow-Meow, in a box, where we also 
> have a follower observer (The observer who opens the box) an that Observer 
> is Wigner's Friend. Now conceive this phenomena as something that is 
> exponentiating, ceaselessly, asymptotically?  No halting state here. just 
> one big Divide Overflow Function! 
>
> "This limitation means there is not possible way to account for all 
> quantum information in the universe. The conservation of qubits may hold 
> for type D, II, III, and N Petrov solution types, here black holes, 
> Robinson-Trautman solution and finally gravitational waves, because they 
> have asymptotic conditions that allow for localization of mass-energy, 
> momentum and angular momentum."
>
> Thus, LC, discovers the function of the multiverse, as buffering for 
> continuous propagation of qubits. For this one, I'm going straight to the 
> airport and start handing out flowers and pamphlets. I'll split the 
> donations. ;-)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 7:02 pm
> Subject: Re: Do the laws of physics allow an infinite number of 
> calculations?
>
> An infinite number of calculations is not possible. There are three 
> instances I can think of. Actually to be honest these are I think a part of 
> a single system. The universe I think obeys the Church-Turing thesis, which 
> means all that is dynamical or computable can be demonstrated on a Turing 
> machine. Symmetries that swap QCD color charge or the flavor charge, the 
> strong and weak nuclear forces respectively, are at least locally 
> algorithmic in nature. I will wrap this up at the end.
>
> On the largest scale there is inflation, which stretched out space 
> enormously to 60-efolds or about 10^{26}, which means early data is 
> difficult to measure. A graviton in the extremely early universe, say 
> around 10^{-30} seconds to 10^{-35}seconds into the big bang has a 
> wavelength of around 10^{-30}cm. By expansion and inflation a coherent 
> state of such gravitons could be stretched into a classical scale 
> gravitational wave of millions of kilometers to billions of light years. An 
> eLISA type gravitational interferometer would imply a change in wavelength 
> by a z factor of z ≈ 10^{42}. For even longer say billions of light years 
> these could be detected as polarizations on the CMB and this is a z ≈ 
> 10^{55}. This z factor has an exponential dependence on the distance out, 
> and so this is around 50 times the CMB distance or 20 trillion light years 
> out. In other words, the sources of these observed gravitational waves are 
> now on the Hubble frame, a frame more or less simultaneous everywhere in 
> time, are now around 2 trillion light years out. This has a further 
> multiplier effect of around 1,250,000. So how about up to 7.5 
> billion-trillion galaxies. That would mean around a billion moles of stars, 
> if you remember Avagadro’s number of atoms in a gram molecular weight or 
> 6.02×10^{23} atoms. If a water molecule represented a galaxy this would be 
> as much water as in a million tons of water --- about a lake’s worth of 
> water. 
>
> This is large, but it is the ultimate boundary. Anything beyond this is 
> lost. The e-LISA and increasingly it is thought fluctuations in pulsar 
> timing will detect early coherent gravitons as long wavelength 
> gravitational waves. These may have fingerprints on the CMB.  Anything 
> further out than this is unobservable. Their fingerprints in the early 
> universe are longer than the cosmological horizon scale. Inflation enforces 
> a rule that the observer cannot witness an infinite universe --- even if it 
> is infinite.
>
> Quantum mechanics enforces a form of this. Local hidden variables would 
> indicate that as the action S → 0 there is a UV divergence of degree of 
> freedom for hidden variables. In fact it would be infinite. Quantum 
> mechanics further eliminates infinite observable content.
>
> Then there are black holes. The event horizon prevents observers from 
> witnessing a divergence. With the Kerr black holes and that the inner 
> horizon is Cauchy, which has been suggested as a way hypercomputation can 
> be accomplished. This would be a work around the Church-Turing thesis. 
> However, black holes are quantum mechanical, and the decay of a black hole 
> prevents the infinite condition necessary 

Re: FW: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As Augustin Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate

[Lawrence Crowell]

That last time Earth face this was the end of the Permian. The Siberian 
flats, a massive diatreme of volcanos poured lava into massive peat bogs or 
lignite material and burned them. This resulted in a massive release of 
CO_2, which is increasingly thought to be the cause of the Permian 
extinction. We human by burning buried hydrocarbons and carbon are 
engineering much the same sort of event. The carbon cycle is in some sort 
of homeostasis that is rapidly impacted by a huge increase in CO_2. In fact 
we human are probably far more rapid than the Siberian flats volcanos. 
There is a time delay of response. We may by our activities be engineering 
the 6th mass extinction. 

LC

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-5 meeke...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Earth didn't survive 5000yrs *WITH* 383e12 tons of CO2, because 
> there's a carbon cycle in which CO2 gets split and carbon gets sequestered 
> in soil, plants, and rocks.  And what the hell would "recorded history" 
> have to do with it.  Why not just multiply by 14 billion years if you just 
> want a big number completely irrelevant to CO2 in the atmosphere.  Here was 
> the flow estimated in 2001.  The point is the system, however much 
> vulcanism, was in equilibrium for those 5000yr before the industrial 
> revolution.
>
>
>
> On 7/15/2022 12:15 PM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
>
> [*Philip Benjamin*]
>
>  A couple more examples of pseudoscience from “Un-awakened 
> consciousness”(UC):
>
> 1. Prof. Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about male 
> pregnancy 'transphobic'.
>
> 2. “Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going and 
> makes big promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate 
> change (The damage from climate change is already worse than most models 
> predicted) The U.S. has taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and 
> women’s health…”
>
> *Philip Benjamin*
>
> *Nonconformist to Socialist Fascist Marxist** (**SOFAMA**) **pagan 
> globalism. *
>
>CC. Prof. Khiara Bridges
>
> ~~
>
>About 150 years (50 years past & 100 years future) of fossil fuel 
> use equals a meager ~ 5.1 trillion tons of CO2 (from World Bank data, see 
> below). An estimated 1,050 wildfires worldwide produced global CO2 
> emissions of 76 billion tons in 2021. There are at least 5000 years of 
> recorded history, i.e 76 billions X 5,000 = 380 trillion tons of CO2. Add 
> to it ~ 3.2 trillion tons for the same period from volcanic eruptions (see 
> below), thus totaling 383.2 trillions of CO2. The earth did survive  at 
> least for 5000 years, with 383 trillion tons of CO2!! 
>
>  
>
>
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/a-sad-bill-gates-makes-a-huge-announcement/
>  
> Billionaire Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going 
> and makes big promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate 
> change (The damage from climate change is already worse than most models 
> predicted) The U.S. has taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and 
> women’s health…
>
>
> https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/sen-hawley-called-transphobic-in-heated-exchange-with-woke-prof-over-pregnancy/
>   
> Law professor Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about 
> pregnancy 'transphobic'
>
>   Sen. Josh Hawley got into a heated exchange with a Berkeley law 
> professor about her use of the phrase “people with a capacity for 
> pregnancy​” during a Senate hearing about abortion.
>
> “We can recognize that this impacts women while also recognizing that it 
> impacts other groups, those things are not mutually exclusive, Sen. 
> Hawley,” said Bridges, who was testifying as an expert in race and 
> reproductive rights.
>
> The senator then asked what she believed was the “core of this right.”
>
> ~~
>
> *Subject:* FW: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As 
> Augustin Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate 
>
>  *everyth...@googlegroups.com**; **general...@googlegroups.com*  
>
> [*Philip Benjamin*]  *Definitions of WAMP, ‘Awakening’ etc. are given 
> toward the bottom.*
>
> Chemical equation of combustion of the petroleum hydrocarbons is 
> generally: CnH 2n+2 +(1 +3n) [O]  → n CO2 +(n + 1) H 2O, where ‘n’ ranges 
> from 6 to 10; n=8 is octane, 9 is diesel oil, 10 is aviation fuel. For 
> the simplest methane (n=1) it is CH4+ [4 O]  -> CO2+ 2 H2O+ energy..  For 
> each C atom introduced, 4 O atoms (i.e. 2 O2 molecules) are removed from 
> the atmosphere, potentially causing an oxygen depletion which will be 
> disastrous, but never occurred. The carbon cycle takes care of that 
> contingency. There  are over 6000 byproducts of oil and gas industries, *very 
> essential *for civilized life, from pharmaceuticals to fertilizers, none 
> of which is available from wind and solar energy productions.  
>
> Pagan WAMP GIGO computer models will not and 

Life on Mars emerges from the sands

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Nasa spots bizarre ‘space spaghetti’ on Mars and offers no explanation
Nasa spots bizarre ‘space spaghetti’ on Mars and offers no explanation (msn.com)
#yiv8283836928 p.yiv8283836928MsoNormal, #yiv8283836928 
p.yiv8283836928MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}

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Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Do what?
-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2022 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

 I don't know who said it.  Can you quote them?  Were they right?
 
 Brent
 
 On 7/15/2022 10:16 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
 Who said I was against socialized medicine.  
 -Original Message-
 From: Brent Meeker 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 7:27 pm
 Subject: Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure
 
   
 
 On 7/14/2022 1:11 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
   Well assuming the accuracy of the graph, I would factor in the money spent 
on emergency room visits, which since the 1980's those who are deemed unable to 
pay for treatment medical bills are written off.
 Your Rights in the Emergency Room (webmd.com) 
 Typical Republican whataboutism.  You're "just asking" about the accounting 
for some small factor, while you're staring at the evidence that we pay TWICE 
what other advanced nations pay and don't get as good a results.
 
 
  
  Also, I wonder whether one factors in population size of various nations, 
including legal immigrants and illegal.   
 
 It says right across the bottom "per capita".
 
 
  As of today for example, the governor of California signed in a new law 
mandating medical care for undocumented migrants. California will be the first 
state to offer health care to all undocumented immigrants (msn.com)  
 
 You don't know the difference between "mandating" and "offering"??  The 
premiums for Medi-Cal for Families are $13 for each child and no more than $39 
per family per month.  Newsom is offering it.
 
 Brent
 
 
  
  We'll get to see how this unfolds? 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Telmo Menezes 
 To: Everything List 
 Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 8:12 am
 Subject: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure
 
   
  #yiv9495516516 p.yiv9495516516MsoNormal, #yiv9495516516 
p.yiv9495516516MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}  I am curious about what Americans in 
this list think about this:
  https://i.redd.it/qrjgb2aakhb91.jpg
  
  
  Telmo
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 .
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Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

[Brent Meeker]

I don't know who said it.  Can you quote them?  Were they right?

Brent

On 7/15/2022 10:16 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

Who said I was against socialized medicine.

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure



On 7/14/2022 1:11 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Well assuming the accuracy of the graph, I would factor in the money 
spent on emergency room visits, which since the 1980's those who are 
deemed unable to pay for treatment medical bills are written off.
Your Rights in the Emergency Room (webmd.com) 



Typical Republican whataboutism.  You're "just asking" about the 
accounting for some small factor, while you're staring at the evidence 
that we pay TWICE what other advanced nations pay and don't get as 
good a results.




Also, I wonder whether one factors in population size of various 
nations, including legal immigrants and illegal.


It says right across the bottom "per capita".

As of today for example, the governor of California signed in a new 
law mandating medical care for undocumented migrants.
California will be the first state to offer health care to all 
undocumented immigrants (msn.com) 



You don't know the difference between "mandating" and "offering"??  
The premiums for Medi-Cal for Families are $13 for each child and no 
more than $39 per family per month.  Newsom is offering it.


Brent



We'll get to see how this unfolds?

-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes  

To: Everything List  


Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 8:12 am
Subject: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure


I am curious about what Americans in this list think about this:
https://i.redd.it/qrjgb2aakhb91.jpg 


Telmo
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.

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.
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FW: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As Augustin Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin]
 A couple more examples of pseudoscience from “Un-awakened 
consciousness”(UC):
1. Prof. Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about male pregnancy 
'transphobic'.
2. “Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going and makes big 
promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate change (The damage 
from climate change is already worse than most models predicted) The U.S. has 
taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and women’s health…”
Philip Benjamin
Nonconformist to Socialist Fascist Marxist (SOFAMA) pagan globalism.
   CC. Prof. Khiara Bridges
~~
   About 150 years (50 years past & 100 years future) of fossil fuel use 
equals a meager ~ 5.1 trillion tons of CO2 (from World Bank data, see below). 
An estimated 1,050 wildfires worldwide produced global CO2 emissions of 76 
billion tons in 2021. There are at least 5000 years of recorded history, i.e 76 
billions X 5,000 = 380 trillion tons of CO2. Add to it ~ 3.2 trillion tons for 
the same period from volcanic eruptions (see below), thus totaling 383.2 
trillions of CO2. The earth did survive  at least for 5000 years, with 383 
trillion tons of CO2!!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/a-sad-bill-gates-makes-a-huge-announcement/
 Billionaire Microsoft co-founder laments the direction the world is going and 
makes big promises to change the game… Pandemic, Ukraine war, climate change 
(The damage from climate change is already worse than most models predicted) 
The U.S. has taken a huge step backwards for gender equality and women’s health…
https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/sen-hawley-called-transphobic-in-heated-exchange-with-woke-prof-over-pregnancy/
  Law professor Khiara Bridges calls Sen. Josh Hawley's questions about 
pregnancy 'transphobic'
  Sen. Josh Hawley got into a heated exchange with a Berkeley law professor 
about her use of the phrase “people with a capacity for pregnancy​” during a 
Senate hearing about abortion.
“We can recognize that this impacts women while also recognizing that it 
impacts other groups, those things are not mutually exclusive, Sen. Hawley,” 
said Bridges, who was testifying as an expert in race and reproductive rights.
The senator then asked what she believed was the “core of this right.”
~~
Subject: FW: Ahistorical 'Woke Culture' Is Moses Vs The Pharaoh Or As Augustin 
Vs WAMP_the-Ingrate
 everything-list@googlegroups.com; 
general_the...@googlegroups.com
[Philip Benjamin]  Definitions of WAMP, ‘Awakening’ etc. are given toward the 
bottom.
Chemical equation of combustion of the petroleum hydrocarbons is generally: CnH 
2n+2 +(1 +3n) [O]  → n CO2 +(n + 1) H 2O, where ‘n’ ranges from 6 to 10; n=8 is 
octane, 9 is diesel oil, 10 is aviation fuel. For the simplest methane (n=1) it 
is CH4+ [4 O]  -> CO2+ 2 H2O+ energy..  For each C atom introduced, 4 O atoms 
(i.e. 2 O2 molecules) are removed from the atmosphere, potentially causing an 
oxygen depletion which will be disastrous, but never occurred. The carbon cycle 
takes care of that contingency. There  are over 6000 byproducts of oil and gas 
industries, very essential for civilized life, from pharmaceuticals to 
fertilizers, none of which is available from wind and solar energy productions.
Pagan WAMP GIGO computer models will not and cannot give a threshold 
danger level of CO2. The greenhouse effect is for a closed system, unlike the 
open earth’s atmosphere which is subject to all kinds of external causes 
(ultraviolet, cosmic rays, solar flares, sunspots etc.). Both CO2 gas and H2O 
vapor absorb infrared rays, but the H2O is eventually condensed into liquid 
water (causing no catastrophic rise in sea levels, from any meteorology 
department which is the only division accredited for climate or weather 
science).
  The greenhouse effect traps heat (infrared rays from sun’s light) close 
to the “goldilocks” Earth's surface by “greenhouse gases and vapors”, which 
include CO2, CH4,  NO & NO2, and H2O vapor. These respond physically or 
chemically to changes in temperatures--  a "feedback" effect. Science has 
determined that without the beneficial CO2, earth's  surface would be ~33°C 
(59°F) cooler (https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/19/what-is-the-greenhouse-effect/).

   Beware of WAMP Pseudoscience:
https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/climatechange 
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#global-co2-emissions-from-fossil-fuels-global-co2-emissions-from-fossil-fuels
https://www.firesafecouncil.org/how-much-carbon-dioxide-does-a-forest-fire-produce/
 

Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

[Brent Meeker]

How are the standardized monthly payments and what they buy determined?  
I thought Germany had government negotiated prices for medical 
insurance.  That's the way insurance is for US Civil Servants, including 
Congress.  Insurance companies offer different plans and they are 
negotiated with the government to meet certain minimum standards.  Then 
civil service employees can select one of the plans based on what they 
cover, deductibles etc.  I've long thought that instead of Medicare, 
they should just have expanded the Civil Service plan to everyone which 
subsidies for poor and unemployed persons.


Brent

On 7/15/2022 8:06 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
In Germany there are standardized monthly payments (and assistance for 
those who cannot pay it), but both insurers and health care providers 
have to compete for the taxpayers "business". This prevents people 
from being finantially ruined by a health crises (or incapable of 
obtaining treatment), while at the same time promoting competition 
between providers. I think it is a good system, and perhaps 
sufficiently far away from "communism" to be acceptable in the US. Or 
perhaps not.


Telmo


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Re: Do the laws of physics allow an infinite number of calculations?

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I wonder if we had Master Schrodinger's Meow-Meow, in a box, where we also have 
a follower observer (The observer who opens the box) an that Observer is 
Wigner's Friend. Now conceive this phenomena as something that is 
exponentiating, ceaselessly, asymptotically?  No halting state here. just one 
big Divide Overflow Function!
"This limitation means there is not possible way to account for all quantum 
information in the universe. The conservation of qubits may hold for type D, 
II, III, and N Petrov solution types, here black holes, Robinson-Trautman 
solution and finally gravitational waves, because they have asymptotic 
conditions that allow for localization of mass-energy, momentum and angular 
momentum."

Thus, LC, discovers the function of the multiverse, as buffering for continuous 
propagation of qubits. For this one, I'm going straight to the airport and 
start handing out flowers and pamphlets. I'll split the donations. ;-)


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: Do the laws of physics allow an infinite number of calculations?

An infinite number of calculations is not possible. There are three instances I 
can think of. Actually to be honest these are I think a part of a single 
system. The universe I think obeys the Church-Turing thesis, which means all 
that is dynamical or computable can be demonstrated on a Turing machine. 
Symmetries that swap QCD color charge or the flavor charge, the strong and weak 
nuclear forces respectively, are at least locally algorithmic in nature. I will 
wrap this up at the end.

On the largest scale there is inflation, which stretched out space enormously 
to 60-efolds or about 10^{26}, which means early data is difficult to measure. 
A graviton in the extremely early universe, say around 10^{-30} seconds to 
10^{-35}seconds into the big bang has a wavelength of around 10^{-30}cm. By 
expansion and inflation a coherent state of such gravitons could be stretched 
into a classical scale gravitational wave of millions of kilometers to billions 
of light years. An eLISA type gravitational interferometer would imply a change 
in wavelength by a z factor of z ≈ 10^{42}. For even longer say billions of 
light years these could be detected as polarizations on the CMB and this is a z 
≈ 10^{55}. This z factor has an exponential dependence on the distance out, and 
so this is around 50 times the CMB distance or 20 trillion light years out. In 
other words, the sources of these observed gravitational waves are now on the 
Hubble frame, a frame more or less simultaneous everywhere in time, are now 
around 2 trillion light years out. This has a further multiplier effect of 
around 1,250,000. So how about up to 7.5 billion-trillion galaxies. That would 
mean around a billion moles of stars, if you remember Avagadro’s number of 
atoms in a gram molecular weight or 6.02×10^{23} atoms. If a water molecule 
represented a galaxy this would be as much water as in a million tons of water 
--- about a lake’s worth of water. 

This is large, but it is the ultimate boundary. Anything beyond this is lost. 
The e-LISA and increasingly it is thought fluctuations in pulsar timing will 
detect early coherent gravitons as long wavelength gravitational waves. These 
may have fingerprints on the CMB.  Anything further out than this is 
unobservable. Their fingerprints in the early universe are longer than the 
cosmological horizon scale. Inflation enforces a rule that the observer cannot 
witness an infinite universe --- even if it is infinite.

Quantum mechanics enforces a form of this. Local hidden variables would 
indicate that as the action S → 0 there is a UV divergence of degree of freedom 
for hidden variables. In fact it would be infinite. Quantum mechanics further 
eliminates infinite observable content.

Then there are black holes. The event horizon prevents observers from 
witnessing a divergence. With the Kerr black holes and that the inner horizon 
is Cauchy, which has been suggested as a way hypercomputation can be 
accomplished. This would be a work around the Church-Turing thesis. However, 
black holes are quantum mechanical, and the decay of a black hole prevents the 
infinite condition necessary for an observer to perform a hypercomputation from 
data piling up on the inner horizon. This actually has the effect of enforcing 
a quantum form of the Bekenstein bound.

In effect the theorems of Turing and Gödel raise their heads and prevent any 
observer from witnessing or performing an infinite computation. Any attempt to 
perform hypercomputation, an infinite computation without problems with Gödel, 
is prevented by what I call a general horizon condition. This means it is not 
physically possible to acquire data about observables in such as way as to 
loophole around axiomatic incompleteness. This applies to any physical system, 
that by virtue of its interacting is a sort of “observer.”

This 

Re: Bad News For Penrose's Quantum Consciousness Idea

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Liked the Penrose theory. Never thought it was quantum processing in the human 
brain, (a warm place!)  but instead, quantum field theory running the store. 
Penrose and anesthesiologist shoulda been more precise. On the other hand it 
all sort of reminds of the hissy battles amongst such sci types. Loop gravity, 
String, they can't all be right. 
There are even more fundamental theories to be asked that affect our species 
more profoundly. Our friend physicist Prisco will be doing a zoom meet up 
(Terasem) next week. 

Terasem Space Day Colloquium, July 20, 2022 | by Giulio Prisco | May, 2022 | 
Turing Church
My question might be if its plausible that the cosmos retain memory? Based on 
the 2018 Gauge essays, I reckon yes. But let us both  agree that I am a big 
sucker for happy news. Another question is that if intelligent life ultimately 
construct a Tipler cylinder us that the, an, omega point? Like I said, a sucker 
for happy news.

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2022 11:52 am
Subject: Bad News For Penrose's Quantum Consciousness Idea

Quantum theory of consciousness put in doubt by underground experiment

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis-- 
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Re: Bad News For Penrose's Quantum Consciousness Idea

[Lawrence Crowell]

This is good news for me. I have been promoting a sort of equivalence 
principle that states entanglements are conserved in spacetime and 
gravitation.

LC

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 10:52:53 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> Quantum theory of consciousness put in doubt by underground experiment 
> 
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> 
>

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Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Who said I was against socialized medicine. 
-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

 
 
 On 7/14/2022 1:11 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Well assuming the accuracy of the graph, I would factor in the money spent on 
emergency room visits, which since the 1980's those who are deemed unable to 
pay for treatment medical bills are written off.
 Your Rights in the Emergency Room (webmd.com) 
 Typical Republican whataboutism.  You're "just asking" about the accounting 
for some small factor, while you're staring at the evidence that we pay TWICE 
what other advanced nations pay and don't get as good a results.
 
 
  
  Also, I wonder whether one factors in population size of various nations, 
including legal immigrants and illegal.   
 
 It says right across the bottom "per capita".
 
 
  As of today for example, the governor of California signed in a new law 
mandating medical care for undocumented migrants. California will be the first 
state to offer health care to all undocumented immigrants (msn.com)  
 
 You don't know the difference between "mandating" and "offering"??  The 
premiums for Medi-Cal for Families are $13 for each child and no more than $39 
per family per month.  Newsom is offering it.
 
 Brent
 
 
  
  We'll get to see how this unfolds? 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Telmo Menezes 
 To: Everything List 
 Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2022 8:12 am
 Subject: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure
 
  
#yiv1078169373 p.yiv1078169373MsoNormal, #yiv1078169373 
p.yiv1078169373MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;} I am curious about what Americans in 
this list think about this:
  https://i.redd.it/qrjgb2aakhb91.jpg
  
  
  Telmo
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Bad News For Penrose's Quantum Consciousness Idea

[John Clark]

Quantum theory of consciousness put in doubt by underground experiment


John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


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Re: Life expectancy vs. Health expenditure

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Do, 14. Jul 2022, um 15:38, schrieb Jason Resch:
> The graph begins to make a little more sense if one replaces the term 
> "healthcare" with a more reality-representing term: "sickcare".
> 
> Healthy people don't need to spend a lot of money on their health.
> 
> This doesn't explain it all, but the relationship begins to become more 
> intuitive when viewed this way: an unhealthy (but wealthy enough to spend a 
> lot of money) population will spend more on sickcare, and will have worse 
> health outcomes than healthier populations.
> 
> The US is one of the most obese nations on this chart. I recall reading some 
> statistic that said if we returned to 1975 obesity levels we could reduce 
> government health spending by 400 billion annually.
> 
> Of course obesity is just one aspect of many that might lead to poor health 
> and shorter life expectancy in the US. (Insufficient preventative care, 
> subsidized cheap and unhealthy foods, high stress jobs with little vacation, 
> the opioid epidemic, prevalence of dysfunctional schools, etc.)

Another thing that might contribute to this is the degree of car-centrism in 
the US. One of my culture shocks there was noticing how easy it is to not be in 
walking distance from anywhere, and how you can get away with basically not 
walking almost at all.

> And all this is before exploring any of the many reasons we pay high costs 
> for the sickcare we get (rationing of licensed doctors and treatment 
> facilities, prohibitions on reimporting cheaply exported drugs, 
> administrative and insurance overheads, lack of price transparency, emergency 
> rooms as default care facilities for those who can't afford doctor 
> appointments, medical malpractice insurance and high rates of lawsuits, 
> multi-billion dollar cost of new drug development, etc.)
> 
> A lot has to be fixed. Unfortunately, the root of the problem may stem from a 
> misalignment of objectives. In the same way private prisons work to 
> incarcerate more prisoners, for-profit sickcare is discouraged from working 
> towards a healthier population (which doesn't need as much of their 
> services). If we could design a reward system where the decision makers in 
> power were rewarded based on the health and well-being of the population as a 
> whole, I think things would look very different.

In Germany there are standardized monthly payments (and assistance for those 
who cannot pay it), but both insurers and health care providers have to compete 
for the taxpayers "business". This prevents people from being finantially 
ruined by a health crises (or incapable of obtaining treatment), while at the 
same time promoting competition between providers. I think it is a good system, 
and perhaps sufficiently far away from "communism" to be acceptable in the US. 
Or perhaps not.

Telmo

> Jason
> 
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 8:45 AM Telmo Menezes  wrote:
>> __
>> Hi Terren,
>> 
>> You are right, I know that. I have the impression that a bad health 
>> situation can ruin people in the US. I have heard of stories of people 
>> refusing to call an ambulance after a serious accident, for fear of the 
>> bill. I think that another country were this is the case is South Korea. A 
>> colleague told me that it is common there for people there to invest in a 
>> second home, to use it to pay for the health bill in case they get cancer or 
>> something serious like that.
>> 
>> I guess what perplexes is that people seem to be more or less ok with this, 
>> when there is overwhelming evidence that a better systems is possible.
>> 
>> Telmo
>> 
>> Am Do, 14. Jul 2022, um 14:34, schrieb Terren Suydam:
>>> Hi Telmo,
>>> 
>>> I’d want to know how they adjust for price differences between countries, 
>>> as that could be a subtle way to introduce bias. But as an American and 
>>> assuming the above is kosher, it doesn’t surprise me at all. Health care 
>>> here is a worst case scenario. It’s the result of decades of anti 
>>> competitive practices and perverse incentives. But you knew that!
>>> 
>>> Terren
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 8:13 AM Telmo Menezes  
>>> wrote:
 __
 I am curious about what Americans in this list think about this:
 https://i.redd.it/qrjgb2aakhb91.jpg
 
 
 
 Telmo
 
 
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 .
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To