Re: More about identity (was Re: Torture yet again)

2005-06-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou

Eric Cavalcanti writes:


But even in a MWI perspective, they are surely very different
processes, as someone else argued. Tossing a coin does not increase
the number of copies of yourself in the multiverse. Pushing the button
does. There is a symmetry between the two versions of yourself in the
coin tossing scenario. Clearly there is no reason for one to be preferred
to the other, then it is reasonable to believe there is a 50% probability
for you to experience each. But there is an asymmetry between you
and your copies, and there is some reason to believe that your
consciousness cannot experience to be the copies, namely, the
argument that you should not experience anything strange if someone
scans your body without your knowledge.


The argument that the two copies are symmetrical in the MWI and there is no 
reason to choose one over the other is exactly my point about duplication in 
one world. For technical reasons, it generally *would* be possible to 
distinguish a copy from the original if we were using, for example, 
non-destructive teleportation, but surely this is just a detail. You have 
aknowledged that all the atoms in your body change over time, replaced by 
atoms from the environment, and you are still the original you. This is a 
gradual process, although the turnover in the brain is surprisingly fast 
(thanks to Jesse Mazer for that reference). Presumably, you would not be 
worried if the replacement happened all at once rather than gradually. 
Suppose you are standing still, and to your right is a supply of all the 
elements that are found in a human body. When you press a button, each atom 
in your body will move one metre to the left, while at the same time, an 
appropriate atom from the supply to your right will move into the position 
vacated by the atom that has just moved. The result is that there are now 
two copies of you, one metre apart. One copy is in the position you were in 
originally, but is comprised of different atoms. That shouldn't worry you, 
because this happens all the time anyway, so this copy could claim to be the 
original. On the other hand, the copy one metre to the left of where you 
were originally is no different to what would have occurred if you had just 
stepped one metre to the left, so this copy could claim to be the original. 
It seems both have a very good claim to being the original!



p.s.: By the way, this remark in the last message also applies to choice C:
About choice B (and C), it raises other interesting questions: suppose you
know that the copies are going to undergo some sort of plastic surgery a 
week
or so after the experiment, and will look very different from yourself now. 
They
could also undergo some type of slow personality modification (as 
education),

such that they would at any moment agree that they are experiencing a
continuity of identity. Would you still choose B? What if this change
really isn't
slow, but sudden, at the time of creation of the copy? Does it make a
difference? Then what is the difference between doing a copy of yourself or
a copy of someone else, since any two people could be connected by a series
of continuous transformations? Would you still be comforted by the fact 
that

someone, even if very different from you, would be created to replace you?


This question applies without copying as well: if you had plastic surgery, 
then gradual personality change, gradual or sudden memory loss, would you 
still be you or would you be someone else? It illustrates the fact that 
there is no obvious or correct answer when it comes to questions of 
continuity of identity. In the final analysis, the answer has to be 
arbitrary.


--Stathis Papaioannou

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RE: More about identity (was Re: Torture yet again)

2005-06-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou


Eric Cavalcanti writes:


You are in the same torture room as before, but now the guy is going to
torture you to death. You have three options:

A: you flip a coin to decide whether you are going to be tortured;
B: you press the copy button 100 times;
C: you press the copy button once.

What do the people in this list choose?


I would choose B. B is effectively the same as flipping a coin 100 times, 
with a 50% chance of escaping the torture every time. If you say that every 
time the button is pressed not only you are copied, but the entire universe 
is copied sans torture, then this is almost exactly the same as flipping a 
coin 100 times if MWI is true. Why do you think it's OK to be duplicated as 
a result of the universe splitting and not OK to be duplicated by pressing 
a button?


--Stathis Papaioannou

_
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