Re: Raddioactive decay states

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 4 Jul 2018, at 02:06, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 6:23:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> 
>> On 21 Jun 2018, at 23:56, agrays...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> 
>> Why don't we observe the pure states, decayed + undecayed, or decayed - 
>> undecayed? TIA, AG
> 
> 
> We “observe them indirectly” by the interferences, which eventually requires 
> some bases corresponding to the one our brain has been implemented in, by a 
> long evolutionary process. Mainly the Gaussian means of position and momentum.
> 
> First part interesting. Will give it more thought. Are you claiming that at 
> some time much earlier in our evolution, we were able to observe the now 
> apparently contradictory pure states I wrote above?

I don’t know. That seems a bit far stretched. Zurek’s use of decoherence 
suggests that any physical machine might need the position base to have the 
sufficiently orthogonal state to emulate a classical machine, but I am not 
entirely convinced by this analysis. I have provided argument that the 
“position” base might be how any base looks like from the view of classical 
machine in that base, but this might be false too, according to physicists 
friends, but it is hard to be sure at this stage to me. As I approach this from 
another direction (cognitive science, metaphysics) such problem are premature.





> When was that; at the time of Homo erectus, or earlier when Lucy around, even 
> earlier, or IMO never?

It would be more like after 10^(-20) seconds after the Big-Bang, if that was 
true.





> As for position and momentum, if one tries to locate the edge of an object 
> using the shadow it produces, the edge is ill-defined depending on the 
> frequency of light being used. So I don't see this phenomenon is in any way 
> related, or an answer to my question. AG


With computationalism, you need the ability to make distinction, and this 
requires sufficiently well defined computational state. The fuzziness concerns 
only what you don’t know. If you want, a particle seem to travel to all slits 
at once only because your mental state is independent or isolated from which 
slit the particles is going through, so that you are really multiplied 
accordingly to each such events. The MWI can been seen as a special sort of 
hidden variable theory, where the hidden variable is the branche of the wave 
function where your memories makes sense. You cannot see a cat being death and 
alive simultaneously, because to see a cat, you need to see it in the base 
already chosen by your brain, through history. But you can see the cat being 
alive and dead, in the sense that you can detect that state in principles, by 
isolating the cat enough from you. It is just technically impossible, with a 
macro-cat, to isolate it sufficiently well to build a device making it 
associate with some usual experience. We have a very long quasi-classical 
history which has chosen the base in which we can do the necessary distinction 
to have a computational mind.

Bruno








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Re: Raddioactive decay states

[agrayson2000]

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 6:23:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 21 Jun 2018, at 23:56, agrays...@gmail.com  wrote:
>
> Why don't we observe the pure states, decayed + undecayed, or decayed - 
> undecayed? TIA, AG
>
>
>
> We “observe them indirectly” by the interferences, which eventually 
> requires some bases corresponding to the one our brain has been implemented 
> in, by a long evolutionary process. Mainly the Gaussian means of position 
> and momentum.
>

First part interesting. Will give it more thought. Are you claiming that at 
some time much earlier in our evolution, we were able to observe the now 
apparently contradictory pure states I wrote above? When was that; at the 
time of Homo erectus, or earlier when Lucy around, even earlier, or IMO 
never? As for position and momentum, if one tries to locate the edge of an 
object using the shadow it produces, the edge is ill-defined depending on 
the frequency of light being used. So I don't see this phenomenon is in any 
way related, or an answer to my question. AG

>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Raddioactive decay states

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 23:56, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Why don't we observe the pure states, decayed + undecayed, or decayed - 
> undecayed? TIA, AG


We “observe them indirectly” by the interferences, which eventually requires 
some bases corresponding to the one our brain has been implemented in, by a 
long evolutionary process. Mainly the Gaussian means of position and momentum.

Bruno




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Raddioactive decay states

[agrayson2000]

Why don't we observe the pure states, decayed + undecayed, or decayed - 
undecayed? TIA, AG

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