Re: ai and atheism

2013-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal


On 23 Nov 2013, at 13:27, Roger Clough wrote:



What I find curious is that so much time and vitriol is spent on the  
web attacking theism,
while so much money is spent on ai and computers to simulate humans,  
when

nobody has ever shown or proven that computers can be conscious.



Nor has anyone prove that computers cannot support consciousness.

We cannot prove that something different from oneself is conscious.

The idea that computer can support consciousness is already a form of  
theism (theism seen as what concerned true but unprovable propositions  
on machines by machines).


Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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Re: ai and atheism

2013-11-23 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Roger Clough  wrote:
>
>
> What I find curious is that so much time and vitriol is spent on the web
> attacking theism,
> while so much money is spent on ai and computers to simulate humans, when
> nobody has ever shown or proven that computers can be conscious.

It's been proven that it cannot be proven.

You confuse the mind-body problem with intelligence. AI research has
been consistently leading to computers having capabilities that were
previously exclusive to humans: translation, playing chess, driving
cars, recognising faces, flying planes, answering questions in natural
language, formulating scientific theories, finding patterns in data
and many others. Even creativity. This is one of my favourite
examples:

http://idesign.ucsc.edu/projects/evo_antenna.html

Most of the funding goes to narrow-AI, which makes sense because it's
an easier goal with immediate applications.

But creating an artificial human is a very exciting goal, and it would
not prove or disprove anything about consciousness. That would be
impossible to know. There is no contradiction is pursuing this goal
and also not being a theist. There is some contradiction in wanting to
achieve such ambitious goals and then wasting time in pointless
discussions. :)

Telmo.

> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>
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ai and atheism

2013-11-23 Thread Roger Clough

What I find curious is that so much time and vitriol is spent on the web 
attacking theism,
while so much money is spent on ai and computers to simulate humans, when
nobody has ever shown or proven that computers can be conscious. 



Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough

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