Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list]

On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 08:31 +0800, Luigi via evolution-list wrote:
> Since we only have a few days left may I suggest the group focus on
> putting forwards what options we have and those actually doing the
> work can decide the best choice and we go for it (even if its not
> perfect).

Hi,

Savannah was also mentioned by the MC mailing list (IIRC not for the
mailing list, but for tickets).
https://savannah.gnu.org/maintenance/WhyChooseSavannah/

On the Gimp mailing list there was a pointer to
https://www.tuxfamily.org/en/about .

It would be nice if former gnome.org mailing lists migrate to the same
new location.

Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at

https://groups.io/g/evolution-users
https://groups.io/g/gimp-users

IMO Savanna is a quite good idea, but FWIW Midnight Commander, Gimp,
Gedit and Evolution have got BSD ports, too.

Regards,
Ralf
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[Evolution] What do I do now?

[Luigi Cantoni via evolution-list]

Hi All,
I personally also agree with the general feeling that an email list is
better for what is wanted by most members of this list.

Since I am unlikely to do any administration (in the near future, years
I mean) I am more then happy to go with whatever those people who
actually do the work and those that contribute the most feel is best.

I think I am like many people on this list, I read and take notes of
useful hints provided by many great and helpful members.
If I can contribute something I will try but usually much more
knowledgeable people give much better advise first.

Since we only have a few days left may I suggest the group focus on
putting forwards what options we have and those actually doing the work
can decide the best choice and we go for it (even if its not perfect).

Anyway I give permission to join me to whatever the group feels is the
way to go.

I like this list and hope it survives.
-- 
Thanks
Luigi 


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Re: [Evolution] Discourse and the situation for Mailman lists hosted by Gnome.org

[Ángel]

On 2022-10-23 at 16:53 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > What I can't understand is that all the Fedora lists, some of which
> > I
> > am on, continue to be run via Mailman, and presumably by staff that
> > work for RedHat. This doesn't look to me like a RedHat decision.
> 
> I've posted a question to the Fedora Users list:
> 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/us...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XXRBCEM3UQSLPPITR5L27HRPER3HZZHM/
> 
> Note that the list also has a web interface (HyperKitty), which is
> different from Discourse. Hooray for consistency.
> 
> poc

hyperkitty is part of mailman3.

[ mailman3 has a modular approach, hyperkitty is the module which shows
the archives and lets you interact with them. In theory you could use a
different archiver than hyperkitty while keeping mailman core (but
hyperkitty is the only implementation so far). ]

While mailman3 interface was designed to be more forum-like, trying to
make it attractive, it's still a good old mailing list under the hood.

I understand that gnome no longer wants to support mailman2.
However, I would have expected to upgrade to mailman3. Yes, it is a
major version upgrade. And yes, gnome has lots of mailing lists.
Nonetheless, it *IS* a supported upgrade, and many other organizations
(including ones with loads of mailing lists) have been able to do it.



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Re: [Evolution] [rebellion attempt] Fight back!

[Ángel]

On 2022-10-24 at 12:57 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > Given that mc is a GNU project, why not using the most natural
> > site,
> > `gnu.org`, for a mailing list?  An additional bonus is that the
> > gnu.org mailing list archives come with a nice – and working! –
> > search
> > interface.
> 
> I don't see anything on the front page about mailing lists. Can you
> be more specific?
> 
> (I would hope that hosting the list on gnu.org wouldn't subject us to
> harangues about specific distros or other software not being properly
> free.)
> 
> poc

Technically, I think it would be through the savannah offering:
https://savannah.gnu.org/

which provides

> Mailing lists at lists.gnu.org and lists.nongnu.org, managed via
> Mailman.

per https://savannah.gnu.org/maintenance/WhyChooseSavannah/

You pretty much needed to already know about this to find it, though.

Regards


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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Ángel]

On 2022-10-21 at 11:04 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > Out of interest, does it happen for other people on Evolution?
> 
> I haven't seen this.
> 
> poc

i did not see the email from Andrea to evolution-list@gnome.org as
tagged as important, but I did see the email to 
evolution-hack...@gnome.org And, weird enough, when looking at it on,
it is now normal.
Moreover, both messages are actually the same, sent as bcc to the two
lists...

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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 07:46 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of
> > facilities,
> > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on
> > a
> > specific topic (Evo), but:
> > 
> > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.
> 
> bg:
> 
> It's a low-level irritant. If the sender cares enough (most don't) 
> or knows how to edit their headers (many can't) it can be worked
> around
> easily enough. Those using Evo don't have the problem, obviously.
> > 
> POC:
> 
> > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> > would not please some people.
> 
> bg:
> 
> I'm subscribed to a pretty active Google Group, and AFAIK I was
> never required to sign up with a Google account (and would not).

Thanks.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 09:30 -0400, Matt Connell wrote:
> On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze:
> > > 
> > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it
> > > has
> > > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of
> > > facilities,
> > > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus
> > > on a
> > > specific topic (Evo), but:
> > > 
> > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though
> > > I
> > > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.
> > 
> > I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the
> > Reply-To:
> > header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with
> > replying to
> > the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a
> > Google
> > Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post,
> > List-Help,
> > List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers.
> > 
> > > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that
> > > this
> > > would not please some people.
> > 
> > On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who
> > don't
> > have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently.
> > 
> > While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to
> > subscribe to a
> > group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group
> > admin can
> > still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do
> > this all
> > the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only.
> > 
> > I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without
> > going to
> > web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to
> > subscribe
> > without a Google account.
> 
> The vim mailing list is on google groups.  No Google account
> required,
> you can subscribe via email, and reply-to-list works with the "group
> reply" button in Evolution as expected.
> 
> Not advocating this solution in any way whatsoever, just commenting.

OK, good to have up-to-date information.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Brewster Gillett]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities,
> including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a
> specific topic (Evo), but:
> 
> * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.

bg:

It's a low-level irritant. If the sender cares enough (most don't) 
or knows how to edit their headers (many can't) it can be worked around
easily enough. Those using Evo don't have the problem, obviously.
> 
POC:

> * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> would not please some people.

bg:

I'm subscribed to a pretty active Google Group, and AFAIK I was
never required to sign up with a Google account (and would not).


Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Matt Connell]

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list
wrote:
> Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze:
> > 
> > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities,
> > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a
> > specific topic (Evo), but:
> > 
> > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.
> 
> I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the Reply-To:
> header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with replying to
> the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a Google
> Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List-Help,
> List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers.
> 
> > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> > would not please some people.
> 
> On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who don't
> have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently.
> 
> While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to subscribe to a
> group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin can
> still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do this all
> the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only.
> 
> I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without going to
> web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to subscribe
> without a Google account.

The vim mailing list is on google groups.  No Google account required,
you can subscribe via email, and reply-to-list works with the "group
reply" button in Evolution as expected.

Not advocating this solution in any way whatsoever, just commenting.

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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list
wrote:
> Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze:
> > 
> > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of
> > facilities,
> > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on
> > a
> > specific topic (Evo), but:
> > 
> > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.
> 
> I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the
> Reply-To:
> header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with
> replying to
> the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a
> Google
> Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List-
> Help,
> List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers.

That's good to know.

> > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> > would not please some people.
> 
> On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who
> don't
> have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently.

I'm going by what the online Help says, but it may not be up to date.

> While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to
> subscribe to a
> group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin
> can
> still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do
> this all
> the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only.

It would be quite burdensome to require admin approval for signing up,
so I'd hope this could be done directly by the users as at present. I'd
also hope that membership lists could be imported from Mailman.

> I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without
> going to
> web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to
> subscribe
> without a Google account.
> 
> > * The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com,
> 
> You mean googlegroups.com, not googlemail.com ?

Yes, I think so. PEBKAC.

poc

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Re: [Evolution] New mailing list

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 13:16 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> As problematic as the Discourse email support is, I think I'd prefer
> itto groups.io.  Maybe my experience is an outlier.

I agree, and I'd go over to Discourse if I could but ...

"""Your account associated with this email address has been silenced."""

And nothing on my account page, etc... indicates anything about this
status.  There's nothing I can do.

I have a two year old message saying I can't use e-mail until it is
"reviewed by staff".

I love Evolution & GNOME, use it all day every day, have since the days
of Ximian, will continue to do so . . . but if this is what
participation is then it isn't worth the hassle.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383

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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list]

Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze:
> 
> I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities,
> including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a
> specific topic (Evo), but:
> 
> * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.

I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the Reply-To:
header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with replying to
the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a Google
Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List-Help,
List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers.

> * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> would not please some people.

On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who don't
have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently.

While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to subscribe to a
group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin can
still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do this all
the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only.

I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without going to
web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to subscribe
without a Google account.

> * The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com,

You mean googlegroups.com, not googlemail.com ?
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [Evolution] [rebellion attempt] Fight back!

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 08:25 +, Werner LEMBERG via evolution-list
wrote:
> 
> > a lot of the Evolution mailing list members, including myself,
> > tested the mailing list ability of Discourse. I was not allowed to
> > start a new thread by email, because my gamification level was 0.
> > You are allowed to start a new thread by email, after you reached
> > level 1.  This is not the only annoyance. Discourse GNOME has got
> > no
> > real mailing list ability.
> 
> Given that mc is a GNU project, why not using the most natural site,
> `gnu.org`, for a mailing list?  An additional bonus is that the
> gnu.org mailing list archives come with a nice – and working! –
> search
> interface.

I don't see anything on the front page about mailing lists. Can you be
more specific?

(I would hope that hosting the list on gnu.org wouldn't subject us to
harangues about specific distros or other software not being properly
free.)

poc
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 14:49 -0500, Daniel Smith via evolution-list
wrote:
> Here’s another article about it. My experience is they have a very
> wide
> vest amount of information there. I think it personally it would be a
> good
> idea to put your list there because a lot of people from other
> technologies
> could find out about it and you could find out about them too.
> There’s a
> whole Lotta stuff there over the years.
> https://marc.info/?q=about

It's an archive. Gnome have already said that the existing lists will
be archived by them after transition, so I don't think there's anything
to be gained here.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 17:57 +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote:
> * Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience

I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities,
including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a
specific topic (Evo), but:

* No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.

* Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
would not please some people.

* The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com,
assuming the free option. For corporate/education domains (i.e. Google
Workspace) this can be changed.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Daniel Smith via evolution-list]

Gimp not Kim

On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:53 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:

> Last one: I checked and there are already lists there that have to do with
> Kim so you might check them out you already might be archive there I’m sure
> you are. I could be wrong. I often am.
> 
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:51 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:
>
>> OK one more. I might as well while I’m at it. Here is the link to the
>> page of all the lists on the page or in Marc. You can see how profound the
>> amount of information is there it’s amazing it’s a great reference.
>> https://marc.info/
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:49 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> Here’s another article about it. My experience is they have a very wide
>>> vest amount of information there. I think it personally it would be a good
>>> idea to put your list there because a lot of people from other technologies
>>> could find out about it and you could find out about them too. There’s a
>>> whole Lotta stuff there over the years.
>>> https://marc.info/?q=about
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:45 PM Daniel Smith 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I usually don’t reply to this list I just like to read it I like to
 watch ha ha.
 Just kidding, but another resource might be the Marc mailing list
 resource and archive. I only know about them because I used to follow a lot
 of technological groups like Apache server and XML-based technologies. Like
 cocoon for example. For anybody who’s ever heard of that but that
 technology had a very interested population in graphical technology like
 SVG for example. This is a link to the general description of them below.
 Thank you for sending in about this I didn’t know they were going to
 delete the email list for Gimp. 
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_(archive)


 On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:04 PM Grzegorz Szymaszek via gimp-user-list <
 gimp-user-l...@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
> State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
> solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
> mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].
>
> Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
> - Debian mailing lists[4],
> - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
> - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).
>
> [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
> [2]: https://osuosl.org/
> [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
> [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
> [5]: https://sourcehut.org/
>
>
> Best of luck
>
> --
> Grzegorz
> ___
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> List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org
> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>

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Re: [Evolution] [rebellion attempt] Fight back!

[Werner LEMBERG via evolution-list]

> a lot of the Evolution mailing list members, including myself,
> tested the mailing list ability of Discourse. I was not allowed to
> start a new thread by email, because my gamification level was 0.
> You are allowed to start a new thread by email, after you reached
> level 1.  This is not the only annoyance. Discourse GNOME has got no
> real mailing list ability.

Given that mc is a GNU project, why not using the most natural site,
`gnu.org`, for a mailing list?  An additional bonus is that the
gnu.org mailing list archives come with a nice – and working! – search
interface.


Wwerner
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Daniel Smith via evolution-list]

Last one: I checked and there are already lists there that have to do with
Kim so you might check them out you already might be archive there I’m sure
you are. I could be wrong. I often am.


On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:51 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:

> OK one more. I might as well while I’m at it. Here is the link to the page
> of all the lists on the page or in Marc. You can see how profound the
> amount of information is there it’s amazing it’s a great reference.
> https://marc.info/
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:49 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:
>
>> Here’s another article about it. My experience is they have a very wide
>> vest amount of information there. I think it personally it would be a good
>> idea to put your list there because a lot of people from other technologies
>> could find out about it and you could find out about them too. There’s a
>> whole Lotta stuff there over the years.
>> https://marc.info/?q=about
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:45 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> I usually don’t reply to this list I just like to read it I like to
>>> watch ha ha.
>>> Just kidding, but another resource might be the Marc mailing list
>>> resource and archive. I only know about them because I used to follow a lot
>>> of technological groups like Apache server and XML-based technologies. Like
>>> cocoon for example. For anybody who’s ever heard of that but that
>>> technology had a very interested population in graphical technology like
>>> SVG for example. This is a link to the general description of them below.
>>> Thank you for sending in about this I didn’t know they were going to
>>> delete the email list for Gimp. 
>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_(archive)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:04 PM Grzegorz Szymaszek via gimp-user-list <
>>> gimp-user-l...@gnome.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
 State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
 solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
 mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].

 Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
 - Debian mailing lists[4],
 - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
 - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).

 [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
 [2]: https://osuosl.org/
 [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
 [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
 [5]: https://sourcehut.org/


 Best of luck

 --
 Grzegorz
 ___
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 List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org
 List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
 List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

>>>
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Daniel Smith via evolution-list]

OK one more. I might as well while I’m at it. Here is the link to the page
of all the lists on the page or in Marc. You can see how profound the
amount of information is there it’s amazing it’s a great reference.
https://marc.info/


On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:49 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:

> Here’s another article about it. My experience is they have a very wide
> vest amount of information there. I think it personally it would be a good
> idea to put your list there because a lot of people from other technologies
> could find out about it and you could find out about them too. There’s a
> whole Lotta stuff there over the years.
> https://marc.info/?q=about
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:45 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:
>
>> I usually don’t reply to this list I just like to read it I like to watch
>> ha ha.
>> Just kidding, but another resource might be the Marc mailing list
>> resource and archive. I only know about them because I used to follow a lot
>> of technological groups like Apache server and XML-based technologies. Like
>> cocoon for example. For anybody who’s ever heard of that but that
>> technology had a very interested population in graphical technology like
>> SVG for example. This is a link to the general description of them below.
>> Thank you for sending in about this I didn’t know they were going to
>> delete the email list for Gimp. 
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_(archive)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:04 PM Grzegorz Szymaszek via gimp-user-list <
>> gimp-user-l...@gnome.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
>>> State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
>>> solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
>>> mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].
>>>
>>> Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
>>> - Debian mailing lists[4],
>>> - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
>>> - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).
>>>
>>> [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
>>> [2]: https://osuosl.org/
>>> [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
>>> [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
>>> [5]: https://sourcehut.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> --
>>> Grzegorz
>>> ___
>>> gimp-user-list mailing list
>>> List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org
>>> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
>>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>>>
>>
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Daniel Smith via evolution-list]

Here’s another article about it. My experience is they have a very wide
vest amount of information there. I think it personally it would be a good
idea to put your list there because a lot of people from other technologies
could find out about it and you could find out about them too. There’s a
whole Lotta stuff there over the years.
https://marc.info/?q=about


On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:45 PM Daniel Smith  wrote:

> I usually don’t reply to this list I just like to read it I like to watch
> ha ha.
> Just kidding, but another resource might be the Marc mailing list resource
> and archive. I only know about them because I used to follow a lot of
> technological groups like Apache server and XML-based technologies. Like
> cocoon for example. For anybody who’s ever heard of that but that
> technology had a very interested population in graphical technology like
> SVG for example. This is a link to the general description of them below.
> Thank you for sending in about this I didn’t know they were going to
> delete the email list for Gimp. 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_(archive)
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:04 PM Grzegorz Szymaszek via gimp-user-list <
> gimp-user-l...@gnome.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
>> State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
>> solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
>> mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].
>>
>> Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
>> - Debian mailing lists[4],
>> - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
>> - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).
>>
>> [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
>> [2]: https://osuosl.org/
>> [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
>> [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
>> [5]: https://sourcehut.org/
>>
>>
>> Best of luck
>>
>> --
>> Grzegorz
>> ___
>> gimp-user-list mailing list
>> List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org
>> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>>
>
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Daniel Smith via evolution-list]

I usually don’t reply to this list I just like to read it I like to watch
ha ha.
Just kidding, but another resource might be the Marc mailing list resource
and archive. I only know about them because I used to follow a lot of
technological groups like Apache server and XML-based technologies. Like
cocoon for example. For anybody who’s ever heard of that but that
technology had a very interested population in graphical technology like
SVG for example. This is a link to the general description of them below.
Thank you for sending in about this I didn’t know they were going to delete
the email list for Gimp. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_(archive)


On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:04 PM Grzegorz Szymaszek via gimp-user-list <
gimp-user-l...@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
> State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
> solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
> mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].
>
> Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
> - Debian mailing lists[4],
> - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
> - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).
>
> [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
> [2]: https://osuosl.org/
> [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
> [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
> [5]: https://sourcehut.org/
>
>
> Best of luck
>
> --
> Grzegorz
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
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Re: [Evolution] Discourse and the situation for Mailman lists hosted by Gnome.org

[solarflow99 via evolution-list]

Thanks to everyone who has been trying to do something about this.  Its sad
the more ML's move to web forums, i've been on a few like that and its
never been the same, they lose a lot of good people.


On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 8:28 AM Ralf Mardorf via mc  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> it's worth to forward this [1] to other GNOME mailing lists.
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
> [1]
>  Forwarded Message 
> To: evolution-list@gnome.org
> Subject: Re: [Evolution] Discourse and the situation for Mailman lists
> hosted by Gnome.org
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 11:19:21 -0400
>
> On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 11:01 -0400, dfc via evolution-list wrote:
> > What other existing mailing list software can be used if Mailman is
> > unavailable?
>
> Just to reiterate and clarify, there is no "Mailman is unavailable"
> situation.  Mailman has versions that support Python2 and Python3, and
> Python2 is still supported in many places (but maybe not in Gnome land).
> Gnome appears to be blaming python2 and Mailman, but it really seems
> that Gnome just really wants to give up email support in favor of
> support via web browser (with future ads, click tracking, data
> harvesting, etc?).
>
> I've offered to host, for Gnome, for free, everything they currently
> have at mail.gnome.org (all they would have to do is switch DNS for the
> subdomain mail.gnome.org to my systems and provide me with a copy of
> their current Mailman2 lists and archives).  I've been doing Mailman2
> mailinglists for 2 decades, and have tons of experience in this area.
> Sadly, no one from Gnome has contacted me to take me up on this offer.
>
> -Jim P.
> ___
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> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
>
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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Grzegorz Szymaszek via evolution-list]

Hi,

FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon
State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this
solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of
mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3].

Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider:
- Debian mailing lists[4],
- freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri,
- SourceHut[5] (most likely paid).

[1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html
[2]: https://osuosl.org/
[3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/
[4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html
[5]: https://sourcehut.org/


Best of luck

-- 
Grzegorz


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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Yury V. Zaytsev]

Hi Ralf,

I've briefly looked into the alternatives:

* groups.io - way too expensive for us
* riseup.net - political organization
* Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience
* Freedesktop - maybe they could accept a couple of low-traffic lists?

If other lists find a good solution, please let us know. Thanks!

--
Sincerely yours,
Yury V. Zaytsev

On Sun, 23 Oct 2022, Ralf Mardorf via mc wrote:


Hi,

I'm a long time Evolution mailing list subscriber, who just recently
subscribed to the gimp and mc mailing list, since we all suffer from the
decision that the GNOME mailing lists get shut down this month.

Reading the MC archive I noticed the question regarding groups.io. If
it's free as in beer or not depends on the count of subscribers and the
needed storage space. In short, it likely is not for free as in beer.

I opened a ticket with a request at
https://support.riseup.net/en/ticket/3227QJ76OfCW7Ci7 .

On the Evolution mailing list a user asked
"What other Gnome lists (analogous to evolution-list) are currently
scrambling with the abrupt decision to switch to discourse?

[snip]" -
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2022-October/msg00294.html

Let's unite our power{,lessness}!

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] [Gimp-user] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Bret Busby via evolution-list]

On 23/10/2022, Ralf Mardorf via gimp-user-list  wrote:


>
> Reading the MC archive I noticed the question regarding groups.io. If
> it's free as in beer or not depends on the count of subscribers and the
> needed storage space. In short, it likely is not for free as in beer.
>


As a subscriber to many lists, a list administrator to a number of
lists, and, a moderator of a list, at groups.io, user lists at
groups.io, can be useful.

And, the lists with which I am involved, at groups.io, are free.

At present, users lists exist at groups.io, for Thunderbird, Firefox,
and Seamonkey.

There is nothing to stop users lists being set up at groups.io, if
people want them, and, if the number of subscribers approaches the
free list limit of 100, sponsorship provisions exist, and, if each
member put in a USD (if and when, the membership approaches 100),
then, the facilities and the membership limit, can become expanded and
enhanced.

So, whilst problems do exist with some provisions at groups.io,
depending on the nature of the group owner / list administrator of
each  group/klist, it can be quite a workable and useful, facility,
and, in the extermination by the gnomes, of support for their
products, it is a reasonable alternative, that should be considered.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
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Re: [Evolution] New mailing list

[Steve Litt]

Bret Busby said on Mon, 24 Oct 2022 00:51:04 +0800

>Hello.
>
>For those who are interested, see
>https://groups.io/g/evolution-users
>
>It is now, up to you to decide what you want to do.

I signed up successfully, but when I sent my first message, this
happened:


:
173.255.221.194 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 500 Your account is bouncing. Please visit the web
site to unbounce your account.


SteveT

Steve Litt 
Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
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Re: [Evolution] Discourse and the situation for Mailman lists hosted by Gnome.org

[Steve Litt]

William Oliver said on Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:20:11 -0400


>I don't have much of a dog in this fight.  I subscribed to this list
>because I had a specific question (which folk helped me with quickly,
>and thanks to all) -- and then just never bothered to unsubscribe.

Then why the lecture on volunteering? You have no dog in this fight.

SteveT

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Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Steve Litt]

Patrick O'Callaghan said on Sat, 22 Oct 2022 12:40:36 +0100

>On Fri, 2022-10-21 at 20:04 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

>> How many members does this list have? If it's less than 100, we can
>> use
>> the free version of groups.io.  
>
>As of right now, there are 856 registered subscribers to the Evolution
>list.

This would be very roughly $30 USD per month for groups.io. Futurequest
would be less than 1/3 that amount, although I don't know how well
Futurequest would service 856 people.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
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Re: [Evolution] Authentication Failures

[Milan Crha via evolution-list]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 16:25 -0500, Japhering, Anonymous via evolution-
list wrote:
> Any idea what verstion might have updates to address it ?

Hi,
it's this one:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution-data-server/-/issues/388
The 3.42.5 was the last version receiving the fix upstream.

I do not know why you use the old Flatpak version. Maybe you build it
yourself? Then I suggest you update the Flatpak manifest from the
branch you want to use, rather than stay so much behind:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/blob/gnome-43/flatpak/org.gnome.Evolution-stable.json

You can also save your and yours' machine time by using the Flathub.org
version.

Bye,
Milan

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Re: [Evolution] [rebellion attempt] Fight back!

[Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 19:21 -0400, Liam R E Quin wrote:
> The mailing list is moving to Discourse, yes. You can interact with
> Discourse using email.

Hi,

a lot of the Evolution mailing list members, including myself, tested
the mailing list ability of Discourse. I was not allowed to start a new
thread by email, because my gamification level was 0. You are allowed to
start a new thread by email, after you reached level 1. This is not the
only annoyance. Discourse GNOME has got no real mailing list ability.

> IRC, Discord, Mastodon, Twitter, continue to exist.

IRC is as good as a mailing list, but no replacement for a mailing list
and a mailing list is no replacement for IRC. Both are very good, but
fit different needs.

I'm not per se against forums, but a forum is per se less good than a
mailing list. I'm completely against forums using gamification to fool
the subscribers.

Twitter and similar unsocial networks are hell!

If no new mailing lists will be available, I seriously doubt that a lot
of the Midnight Commander or of the Evolution mailing list subscribes
are willing to use Discourse in the future, let alone Twitter or
similar. Some might use IRC, other community members will be lost
forever. It might be different for Gimp or Gedit mailing list
subscribers. However, those used to command line, ncurses or ncurses
alike approaches and/or mail user agents will less likely be much
attracted by Discourse, Twitter and Co.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] Evolution crashes when trying to compose email

[Milan Crha via evolution-list]

On Fri, 2022-10-21 at 21:08 -0400, Ken Wright via evolution-list wrote:
> I Googled how to install the most recent Flatpak,
> and it appears to be working properly now.

Hi,
it would be still good to know what caused Evolution to freeze. I
understood from your description that the app is not crashing, but it's
frozen. That's slightly different thing. You can check what Evolution
is doing (or what it is waiting for) when you run it under gdb. Ideally
have installed debug information packages for glib, gtk3, libsoup3,
evolution-data-server and evolution at least, then run:

   $ gdb evolution --ex r

from a terminal. Once you reproduce the problem, switch to the terminal
and press Ctrl+C, which will bring you to the gdb prompt, where you can
run gdb commands. Two interesting are:

   (gdb) bt
   (gdb) t a a bt

The first prints the backtrace of the current active thread, which
might be the main/UI thread, which is blocked, thus the app is
unresponsive for the desktop environment. The second prints backtrace
for all threads, which gives a little idea what the app is doing.
Please check the output for any private information, like passwords,
email addresses, server addresses,... I usually search for "pass" at
least (quotes for clarity only), before sharing it anywhere.

You can either "continue" to keep the evolution running, or you can
quit gdb with the "quit" command.

Preceding lines from the gdb run can contain related information too,
in a form of runtime warnings printed in the terminal. It's not those
"Thread Created" nor "Thread Exited", which are printed by the gdb and
whose is there a lot for sure.

Bye,
Milan

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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Sorin Srbu via evolution-list]

On Sat, 2022-10-22 at 15:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list wrote:
> On Sat, 2022-10-22 at 13:55 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > So the way to get it working as a proper mailing list is by turning off
> > Mailing List Mode. So intuitive.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> yesno, even after doing so, it is not working as a proper mailing list.
> The emails are still multipart messages with remote content, there's no
> real archive etc... If a user unsubscribes from evolution-list@gnome.org
> no posts are deleted from the archive. After deleting my Discourse
> account, my posts disappeared.
> 
> Regards,
> Ralf

The posts shouldn't disappear.
According to a post in the Site feedback sub (I think it was), the post are
anonymized when a user account is deleted. The posts however are not.

I might have misunderstood this though.

In any case, I'm two millimeters from just giving up on this whole Discourse
thing because of Frustration(tm).
With that in mind I'd like to say thanks already now, to all on this list
who've helped me out during the last years when problems with Evolution has
arised (notable - EWS, tenant stuff, Office365 etc), as well as others
who've posted interesting stuff generally speaking.
Without those posts and help, my Evolution Mail experience would have
definitely been not very good.
So give you all a pat on the shoulder from me, and again, great thanks!




-- 
Sorin Srbu, Serverdrift
Tele: 08-524 84166
Karolinska Institutet Universitetsbibliotek
Avdelningen för Verksamhetsstöd
Enheten för Teknikstöd och Bildproduktion


# They say you can't buy happiness, but you can buy a 
# motorcycle, and that's pretty damn close!





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