RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Herold Heiko

OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
anywhere must be connected, or
b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.

Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every network has
moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
slowly, but still not 100% sure. 

For the drive space issue... I was still thinking, what if on a
partition is say, pub.edb only ? BTW I'm just copying the exchange
resource kit and service pack on that partition :)
 
Heiko

-- 
-- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
-- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
-- ITALY

 -Original Message-
 From: Jim Brady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:01 PM
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 
 Users shouldn't be connected to the server while their mailboxes are
 being moved, nor can mailboxes accept mail while they are being moved
 (assuming your using the mailbox tool).
 
 1 GB question - done this myself and works great ... freeing up a few
 hundred MB does get the store back up quickly, although I've never see
 this on a best practices list.  Quicker than moving the logs 
 to another
 drive.  
 
 Jim
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Herold Heiko
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:30 AM
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Subject: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 EX4.4 sp4
 
 say, server Gateway (IMC connector only), server A and server B
 (mailboxes).
 During move mailbox from A to B arrived a incoming mail (smtp to
 Gateway) for the mailbox on the move.
 server A sent back a reply Your message ... did not reach the 
 following
 recipient(s):
 
 Display name on Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:33:39 +0100
  Unable to deliver the message due to a communications failure
   The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=...
 ;l=Gateway020201281117D5DWCYXN
  MSEXCH:MSExchangeMTA:site:server A
 
 Is this normal ? During move mailbox incoming external mail 
 is rejected
 ? I could not find any reference to this in technet (well, 
 searched only
 for a couple of minutes to be honest, found nothing related).
 
 Similary, I was looking exactly when a services will shut down for no
 more space available (now you know why I'm moving mailboxes 
 :), the only
 thing I found was several references (EX 5.5 Server Guide, 
 Administering
 and Maintaining, the Disaster Recovery White paper and similar) to
 res1.log and res2.log. Those are 5MB each and are used as last resort
 when the disk is full - does this mean services shut down 
 really at the
 last moment (new page can't be allocated) ?
 Somehow I always thought it would shutdown with some % of disk space
 still available.
 
 If the services do shutdown when the store partition is really full
 could it be considered a good practice creating a 1GB (or something)
 file, which can be deleted in order to create space as last resort...
 say, to restart services and move somewhere else some mailboxes or
 public folders ?
 Then decide if to spank the users who eat space like peanuts or the
 managers who want won't allow space limits, in order to use the
 infinite resources approach for supposedly faster development but
 won't fund the same infinite (or at least sufficent) approach 
 to server
 space ?
  
 Heiko
 
 -- 
 -- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 -- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
 -- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
 -- ITALY
 
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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Busby, Jacob

 OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
 But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
 a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
 anywhere must be connected, or
 b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
 they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
 the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
 domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.
 
 Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
 during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every 
 network has
 moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
 slowly, but still not 100% sure. 

Theoretically I suppose you could create an extra mailbox in your Exchange
server called 
Saved Mail then redirect/alias your firewall so that all mail for any user
on your system 
went direct to this account. Then move the mailboxes across, reset the
firewall back to it's 
original state, then log on to the Saved Mail mailbox, ship out the mail
there to the correct 
users. Finally delete the Saved Mail account. Seems like an awful lot of
work for very little 
effect IMHO.

I'd be far more inclined to advertise the process as essential maintenance,
explain the 
consequences of not doing the task and the mail blackout effect, and then
perform the task
on a Sunday afternoon.


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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Chris Scharff

My average mailbox move takes around 5 minutes. Actual risk of mail being
NDR'd is a number significantly close to zero (e.g. I moved 1100 users from
one server to another one evening and received 0 complaints about bounced or
missing mail). Mail which is sent during that time is bounced, not lost, so
the sender can simply try and resend the message... not like the occasional
odd NDR doesn't happen anyway.

What's the actual problem we're trying to solve here or is this just an
academic exercise?

-Original Message-
From: Herold Heiko
To: Exchange Discussions
Sent: 1/29/2002 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
anywhere must be connected, or
b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.

Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every network has
moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
slowly, but still not 100% sure. 

For the drive space issue... I was still thinking, what if on a
partition is say, pub.edb only ? BTW I'm just copying the exchange
resource kit and service pack on that partition :)
 
Heiko

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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Herold Heiko

Well, I did mov some mailboxes during prime time the other day (for
space reason): phone user with top #1 mailbox please close outlook
until notice, move mailbox, give clearance for outlook. After moving
around ~ 10 users (~7GB, sigh) I got notice from a couple of those for
bounced and resent mail.
So I was wondering if there is a better solution.
As it sems the low-traffic time with crossed fingers way seems to be
the only better one, possibly combined with the delay external mail
prior to entering the exchange system.
As a matter of fact I need to take a look again at the configuration of
our mail gateways (sendmail) - it should be possible to match the
relevant addresses before every other rule, and send it to an empty IP
address (without anything answering on that address) so the mail would
just sit in the queue. Then redirect it to a real mail gateway later,
after completition of the move.
 
Heiko

-- 
-- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
-- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
-- ITALY

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Scharff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:25 PM
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 
 My average mailbox move takes around 5 minutes. Actual risk 
 of mail being
 NDR'd is a number significantly close to zero (e.g. I moved 
 1100 users from
 one server to another one evening and received 0 complaints 
 about bounced or
 missing mail). Mail which is sent during that time is 
 bounced, not lost, so
 the sender can simply try and resend the message... not like 
 the occasional
 odd NDR doesn't happen anyway.
 
 What's the actual problem we're trying to solve here or is 
 this just an
 academic exercise?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Herold Heiko
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Sent: 1/29/2002 6:01 AM
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
 But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
 a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
 anywhere must be connected, or
 b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
 they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
 the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
 domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.
 
 Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
 during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every 
 network has
 moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
 slowly, but still not 100% sure. 
 
 For the drive space issue... I was still thinking, what if on a
 partition is say, pub.edb only ? BTW I'm just copying the exchange
 resource kit and service pack on that partition :)
  
 Heiko
 
 _
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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Andy David

Me thinks you are overthinking this. 
I agree with Iron Chef Messaging Scharff, I've done a number of times
overnight and across WAN links w/o issue. 


-Original Message-
From: Herold Heiko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:51 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?


Well, I did mov some mailboxes during prime time the other day (for
space reason): phone user with top #1 mailbox please close outlook
until notice, move mailbox, give clearance for outlook. After moving
around ~ 10 users (~7GB, sigh) I got notice from a couple of those for
bounced and resent mail.
So I was wondering if there is a better solution.
As it sems the low-traffic time with crossed fingers way seems to be
the only better one, possibly combined with the delay external mail
prior to entering the exchange system.
As a matter of fact I need to take a look again at the configuration of
our mail gateways (sendmail) - it should be possible to match the
relevant addresses before every other rule, and send it to an empty IP
address (without anything answering on that address) so the mail would
just sit in the queue. Then redirect it to a real mail gateway later,
after completition of the move.
 
Heiko

-- 
-- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
-- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
-- ITALY

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Scharff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:25 PM
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 
 My average mailbox move takes around 5 minutes. Actual risk 
 of mail being
 NDR'd is a number significantly close to zero (e.g. I moved 
 1100 users from
 one server to another one evening and received 0 complaints 
 about bounced or
 missing mail). Mail which is sent during that time is 
 bounced, not lost, so
 the sender can simply try and resend the message... not like 
 the occasional
 odd NDR doesn't happen anyway.
 
 What's the actual problem we're trying to solve here or is 
 this just an
 academic exercise?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Herold Heiko
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Sent: 1/29/2002 6:01 AM
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
 But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
 a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
 anywhere must be connected, or
 b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
 they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
 the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
 domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.
 
 Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
 during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every 
 network has
 moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
 slowly, but still not 100% sure. 
 
 For the drive space issue... I was still thinking, what if on a
 partition is say, pub.edb only ? BTW I'm just copying the exchange
 resource kit and service pack on that partition :)
  
 Heiko
 
 _
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--
The information contained in this email message is privileged and confidential 
information intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is 
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email in error, please immediately 
notify Veronis Suhler Stevenson by telephone (212)935-4990, fax (212)381-8168, or 
email ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and delete the message.  Thank you.

==


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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Joyce, Louis

Chris is a chef as well? A man of many talents.

:)

Regards

Mr Louis Joyce
Network Support Analyst
Exchange Administrator
BT Ignite eSolutions




-Original Message-
From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 29 January 2002 13:55
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?


Me thinks you are overthinking this. 
I agree with Iron Chef Messaging Scharff, I've done a number of times
overnight and across WAN links w/o issue. 


-Original Message-
From: Herold Heiko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:51 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?


Well, I did mov some mailboxes during prime time the other day (for
space reason): phone user with top #1 mailbox please close outlook
until notice, move mailbox, give clearance for outlook. After moving
around ~ 10 users (~7GB, sigh) I got notice from a couple of those for
bounced and resent mail.
So I was wondering if there is a better solution.
As it sems the low-traffic time with crossed fingers way seems to be
the only better one, possibly combined with the delay external mail
prior to entering the exchange system.
As a matter of fact I need to take a look again at the configuration of
our mail gateways (sendmail) - it should be possible to match the
relevant addresses before every other rule, and send it to an empty IP
address (without anything answering on that address) so the mail would
just sit in the queue. Then redirect it to a real mail gateway later,
after completition of the move.
 
Heiko

-- 
-- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
-- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
-- ITALY

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Scharff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:25 PM
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 
 My average mailbox move takes around 5 minutes. Actual risk 
 of mail being
 NDR'd is a number significantly close to zero (e.g. I moved 
 1100 users from
 one server to another one evening and received 0 complaints 
 about bounced or
 missing mail). Mail which is sent during that time is 
 bounced, not lost, so
 the sender can simply try and resend the message... not like 
 the occasional
 odd NDR doesn't happen anyway.
 
 What's the actual problem we're trying to solve here or is 
 this just an
 academic exercise?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Herold Heiko
 To: Exchange Discussions
 Sent: 1/29/2002 6:01 AM
 Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?
 
 OK users should not be connected during move mailbox - no problem.
 But mail can't be delivered ? Let's see, this means
 a) every connector on every exchange server must be down, no user
 anywhere must be connected, or
 b) every connector on the source and destination server must be down,
 they must not be able to communicate with any other exchange server in
 the same org/site, but they still must be able to communicate with a
 domain controller. Oh, no user logged in those two servers obviously.
 
 Seems not exactly an easy task if you don't want to risk loosing mail
 during a move mailbox... is there any way to do this ? Every 
 network has
 moments when there are few users and external mail is trickling in
 slowly, but still not 100% sure. 
 
 For the drive space issue... I was still thinking, what if on a
 partition is say, pub.edb only ? BTW I'm just copying the exchange
 resource kit and service pack on that partition :)
  
 Heiko
 
 _
 List posting FAQ:   http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
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 Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

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--
The information contained in this email message is privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity to whom it is addressed.  If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this email in error, please immediately notify Veronis Suhler
Stevenson by telephone (212)935-4990, fax (212)381-8168, or email
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and delete the message.  Thank you.


==


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Archives

RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Chris Scharff

I'm a master of trailer park cuisine.

Chris Scharff
The Mail Resource Center
http://www.mail-resources.com

-Original Message-
From: Joyce, Louis
To: Exchange Discussions
Sent: 1/29/2002 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

Chris is a chef as well? A man of many talents.


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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-29 Thread Kevin Miller

I am looking to buy a Trailer park soon, want to be the chief at a Cook
out? We can laugh at all the inmates I mean my tenants???

--Kevinm M, WLKMMAS, UCC+WCA, And Beyond
Did I just say that out loud?


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:57 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?


I'm a master of trailer park cuisine.

Chris Scharff
The Mail Resource Center
http://www.mail-resources.com

-Original Message-
From: Joyce, Louis
To: Exchange Discussions
Sent: 1/29/2002 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

Chris is a chef as well? A man of many talents.


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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-28 Thread Jim Brady

Users shouldn't be connected to the server while their mailboxes are
being moved, nor can mailboxes accept mail while they are being moved
(assuming your using the mailbox tool).

1 GB question - done this myself and works great ... freeing up a few
hundred MB does get the store back up quickly, although I've never see
this on a best practices list.  Quicker than moving the logs to another
drive.  

Jim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Herold Heiko
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:30 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

EX4.4 sp4

say, server Gateway (IMC connector only), server A and server B
(mailboxes).
During move mailbox from A to B arrived a incoming mail (smtp to
Gateway) for the mailbox on the move.
server A sent back a reply Your message ... did not reach the following
recipient(s):

Display name on Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:33:39 +0100
 Unable to deliver the message due to a communications failure
The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=...
;l=Gateway020201281117D5DWCYXN
 MSEXCH:MSExchangeMTA:site:server A

Is this normal ? During move mailbox incoming external mail is rejected
? I could not find any reference to this in technet (well, searched only
for a couple of minutes to be honest, found nothing related).

Similary, I was looking exactly when a services will shut down for no
more space available (now you know why I'm moving mailboxes :), the only
thing I found was several references (EX 5.5 Server Guide, Administering
and Maintaining, the Disaster Recovery White paper and similar) to
res1.log and res2.log. Those are 5MB each and are used as last resort
when the disk is full - does this mean services shut down really at the
last moment (new page can't be allocated) ?
Somehow I always thought it would shutdown with some % of disk space
still available.

If the services do shutdown when the store partition is really full
could it be considered a good practice creating a 1GB (or something)
file, which can be deleted in order to create space as last resort...
say, to restart services and move somewhere else some mailboxes or
public folders ?
Then decide if to spank the users who eat space like peanuts or the
managers who want won't allow space limits, in order to use the
infinite resources approach for supposedly faster development but
won't fund the same infinite (or at least sufficent) approach to server
space ?
 
Heiko

-- 
-- PREVINET S.p.A.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Via Ferretto, 1ph  x39-041-5907073
-- I-31021 Mogliano V.to (TV) fax x39-041-5907087
-- ITALY

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RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

2002-01-28 Thread Jim Brady

The official recommendation ...
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q259751.
According to this, you may only need as little as 10MB to free up the
service.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jim Brady
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:01 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

Users shouldn't be connected to the server while their mailboxes are
being moved, nor can mailboxes accept mail while they are being moved
(assuming your using the mailbox tool).

1 GB question - done this myself and works great ... freeing up a few
hundred MB does get the store back up quickly, although I've never see
this on a best practices list.  Quicker than moving the logs to another
drive.  

Jim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Herold Heiko
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:30 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: Move mailbox = can't reveive ?

EX4.4 sp4

say, server Gateway (IMC connector only), server A and server B
(mailboxes).
During move mailbox from A to B arrived a incoming mail (smtp to
Gateway) for the mailbox on the move.
server A sent back a reply Your message ... did not reach the following
recipient(s):

Display name on Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:33:39 +0100
 Unable to deliver the message due to a communications failure
The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=...
;l=Gateway020201281117D5DWCYXN
 MSEXCH:MSExchangeMTA:site:server A

Is this normal ? During move mailbox incoming external mail is rejected
? I could not find any reference to this in technet (well, searched only
for a couple of minutes to be honest, found nothing related).

Similary, I was looking exactly when a services will shut down for no
more space available (now you know why I'm moving mailboxes :), the only
thing I found was several references (EX 5.5 Server Guide, Administering
and Maintaining, the Disaster Recovery White paper and similar) to
res1.log and res2.log. Those are 5MB each and are used as last resort
when the disk is full - does this mean services shut down really at the
last moment (new page can't be allocated) ?
Somehow I always thought it would shutdown with some % of disk space
still available.

If the services do shutdown when the store partition is really full
could it be considered a good practice creating a 1GB (or something)
file, which can be deleted in order to create space as last resort...
say, to restart services and move somewhere else some mailboxes or
public folders ?
Then decide if to spank the users who eat space like peanuts or the
managers who want won't allow space limits, in order to use the
infinite resources approach for supposedly faster development but
won't fund the same infinite (or at least sufficent) approach to server
space ?
 
Heiko

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