[FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Thanks, most interesting, as usual!. After you master out of body travel to other planets, here's some questions for you: Assuming there are intelligent creatures on other planets, do such civilizations have the equivalent of 1. NASCAR 2. What types of music: a. Country and Western, b. classical, c. rock and roll, d. other. 3. Do they practice TM? 4. How about cuisines?: a. Chinese, b. Mexican, c. Italian, d. other. And the most pressing question, of course. What do they actually DO with those assholes they cut out of cattle and take away into space with them?
[FairfieldLife] healing water created
maybe they should look at effects of vedic chants on water next.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6684701.stm Firm makes 'healing super-water' US scientists have developed super-oxidised water which they say speeds up wound healing. Oculus, the Californian firm which developed the water - made by filtering it through a salt membrane - says it kills viruses, bacteria and fungi. It is also effective against MRSA and UK trials are being carried out on patients with diabetic foot ulcers, New Scientist magazine reported. Experts said wound healing was a major problem for people with diabetes. The key ingredient of the water, called Microcyn, are oxychlorine ions - electrically charged molecules which pierce the cell walls of free-living microbes. The water can only kill cells it can completely surround so human cells are spared because they are tightly bound together in a matrix. We would welcome any safe effective treatment which could help people with diabetes make a swift recovery Tracey Kelly, Diabetes UK It is made by taking purified water and passing it through a semi- permeable sodium chloride membrane, which produces the oxychlorine ions. One study showed that patients with advanced foot ulcers who were treated with the water, alongside an antibiotic had an average healing time of 43 days compared with 55 days in those who received standard treatment Bleach-resistant bacteria The results were presented at a Global Healthcare biomedical conference in Monte Carlo. Bleach also contains a number of electrically charged molecules such as hypochlorite but in much higher concentrations than in the water. However, US studies have shown the water kills 10 strains of bleach- resistant bacteria. Professor Andrew Boulton, from Manchester Royal Infirmary, who is conducting one of the early UK trials, said the treatment seemed promising. Hopefully it will confirm our initial good experience. About 15% of diabetic foot ulcers result in amputation. Diabetes UK care adviser Tracey Kelly said: The healing of wounds is a major problem for people with diabetes who do not have good blood glucose control or have circulatory problems. We would welcome any safe effective treatment which could help people with diabetes make a swift recovery. This research is very interesting and we look forward to the trial results. Help the Aged spokesman Mike Foster said: The team involved is a credible one and wound healing is a major area in the health of older people. There is an urgent need to understand the biology of our repair systems so that we can improve treatments that will help to restore more people's health and independence. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/health/6684701.stm Published: 2007/05/24 00:32:18 GMT © BBC MMVII
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
Hi, Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) I'm not sure even the most ardent supporter of TM would suggest that this could happen after, what, nine months or so of meditation, would they? It's a nice thought though! John - Original Message - From: Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As for insomnia, someone asked whether I feel tired during the day. And, oddly, not much. A little wearier, but certainly not as tired as I should have expected on only a few hours sleep. Further, on contemplation, it occurs to me that the hours awake lying in bed pass remarkably quickly. So perhaps what I'm thinking of then as being awake, whilst certainly not unconscious asleep as such, is not complete wakefulness. snip Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: maharishi honey ad
That was so embarrassing that I'll bet even King Tony saw it and went WTF! (in Sanskrit of course, perhaps Card can give us the translation) There seems to be a huge load of words for sexual intercourse in Sanskrit. Of those, jambhana sounds to me quite funny. I guess it should be put into instrumental case, thus kiM jambhanena! But I'm not at all sure about that. BTW, gogamana [~gaw-gum-annah: going (into?) a cow] n. intercourse with a cow , Pra1yas3c.
[FairfieldLife] Turquoise's Cat , Rick's Cat , Schr�dinger's Cat
You feel like a Schrödinger's cat..?? Rick says that reconciling the Positives and Negatives of TM-org, MMY is an interesting challenge. Rick obviously admits that are positives in TM and MMY..!! Maharishi is a Quantum entity and so, perhaps you can't pass a 'Black and White' judgement on him..?? Paradox of the blazing Brahman..?? shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:42:45 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about the movement . Their mistake, obviously, was not putting gold paint on the edges of the books they published. . Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:02:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about the movement . Whats with this journal obsession? I have no problem with the research. It shows TM is effective and many ways. I dont dispute that. What I do is take ALL available information, throw it in the pot, and try to make a palatable stew of it. The more controversial things I have come to believe, based on evidence I find credible, do not negate the many positive things about TM, MMY, etc. For me, reconciling them just presents an interesting challenge. . TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:58:49 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about the movement . well said, Rick. As it turns out, I had a similar conversation with a former Rama student recently. Like your friend, this gal was trying to save me from my backsliding ways and help me return to a proper and correct understanding of who and what Rama (Frederick Lenz) was. I tolerated it for a few moments, making jokes the whole time, trying to get her to lighten up. But lightening up just wasn't in the picture, because she had decided that I really needed to be saved, and that she was just the one to do the saving. So finally I said to her, Look...here is where I'm at with regard to any of this. Anything I think or believe about Rama is just a theory, and one that I am not particularly attached to. I am willing to state at any time that I could be completely WRONG in my ideas about who and what he was. Can you say that about YOUR beliefs about him? She hemmed and hawed and dodged the question for some minutes, but I kept repeating it, saying that if we were to have any kind of meaningful discussion, we should start off on the same footing, both of us with ideas about the man we were discussing, but both of us willing to admit that these ideas might be WRONG. She kept dodging. I kept repeating the ques- tion. Finally she flew into a purple-faced rage, yelled at me for a few minutes, and stormed off, hopefully never to darken my door again. The thing is, she was UNABLE to say the words, I might be wrong. She couldn't get them out of her mouth. To do so would have opened a Pandora's Box for her that she wanted no part of. Her faith was based on the abso- lute *certainty* that she was right, and she could not, even for a moment, admit even the *possibility* that she might be wrong. I kinda suspect that the friend who wanted to help you would have reacted the same way... - TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV.
[FairfieldLife] Re: maharishi honey ad
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of boo_lives Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:14 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: maharishi honey ad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: If I were 3 years old, and my Telatubbie DVD had gotten some Play-Doh on it, and I had ingested mommy's special brownies for her hippie friend's party...I would totally go for this marketing approach. (oh yeah, and I might need a lobotomy as well) The movement continues to be its own worst PR enemy. This was the result of thousands of people practicing meditation for decades claiming to increase creativity, awareness and intelligence? I'm guessing this was Mother Divine's work, was that Emily Levin? That was so embarrassing that I'll bet even King Tony saw it and went WTF! (in Sanskrit of course, perhaps Card can give us the translation) I think it's supposed to be a secret but the honey operation is run by mother divine as is pretty obvious in the video. I counted the word maharishi used 20 times in the commercial - why is he the main element in selling honey?? You think the actual hives are managed my Mother Divine? I don't know if they're actually in the fields or just supervising. There's a group in brazil, part of maharishi farms, MMY told them they would eliminate poverty in brazil by hiring so many unemployed so they plan on hiring, but last I checked there was still poverty in brazil. I don't think americans will buy $50 small bottles of honey because vedic chants were played to the bees. I think you need to play marvin gaye to the bees and sell the honey as sweet sexual healing to get $50.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Turquoise's Cat , Rick's Cat , Schrödinger's Cat
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Spock Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:53 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Turquoise's Cat , Rick's Cat , Schrödinger's Cat You feel like a Schrödinger's cat..?? Rick says that reconciling the Positives and Negatives of TM-org, MMY is an interesting challenge. Rick obviously admits that are positives in TM and MMY..!! Very definitely. I would even say that the positives outweigh the negatives. Maharishi is a Quantum entity and so, perhaps you can't pass a 'Black and White' judgement on him..?? Thats the essence of what Ive been saying here for 6 years. Paradox of the blazing Brahman..?? You betcha.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
On May 24, 2007, at 4:29 AM, John Davis wrote: Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) I'm not sure even the most ardent supporter of TM would suggest that this could happen after, what, nine months or so of meditation, would they? It's a nice thought though! One of the easily detactable ways to tell if you are truly witnessing is that you actually need LESS sleep, approx. 4-6 hours, and you feel clear and rejuvenated on waking.
[FairfieldLife] Somewhere in the Akash
This was from the friend (whom you call The Purusha Guy but who is actually married) with whom I've been having that discussion. Evidently he shared our discussion with a mutual friend, whose identity I'm not told, as I shared it with all of you, and then forwarded that friend's comments to me, as I've forwarded some of yours to him: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where--(that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. Patanjali does endorse in the Yoga sutras, any reliable meditation. He therefore give his blessings on different forms of meditation--So it seems to me, that when we get to Brahman there will be a large number of saints somewhere in the Akash that have arrived there from a variety of means--some faster--some slower--I mean everyone we know of who got enlightened got there by a slightly different path (Maharaja, Ramakrishna, the Buddha, etc.) But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Below is the Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma that drives them crazy, so they ignore it and go off making crappy jokes to each other, or changing the subject to Cajun Cooking Tips or some other nonsense: There will never come a time when Science (research published in peer- reviewed scientific journals) will be superceded by New Age self-agrandizing dribble. This is the reality of life. This is the modern world. You need to accept this new realization to become liberated . Likewise, the TM Fundies need to realize that nonduality, Brahman, Self knowing Self, etc. are beyond the scope of science. If you want real liberation, stop looking for it in bondage to different and esoteric states of duality.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Fundies' Dilemma
That is good off_world, assuming the placing of TM peer-review is peerless or that brainwaves such measures an enlightenment as such. Of course an irony in is that the glossy brainwave charts that were held up, posted up, used (touted)for so long to demonstrate something about the 'TM'sidhis was taken from advanced buddhist practitioners who had come to MIU for courses and learned the TM-Siddhis. Quieting the mind with TM is one thing possibly. Where is the chart that shows the light of the Purusha resident in the heart, body mind complex of the human experience? Enlightenment may just be more than about charts of galvanic skin resistance and the mind transcending. Could the TM-fundies consider that? They are kind of entrenched and dull on that. I am glad you are here taking up their cause, like a public defender of the faithful. God bless you, -Doug in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Below is the Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma that drives them crazy, so they ignore it and go off making crappy jokes to each other, or changing the subject to Cajun Cooking Tips or some other nonsense: There will never come a time when Science (research published in peer- reviewed scientific journals) will be superceded by New Age self-agrandizing dribble. This is the reality of life. This is the modern world. You need to accept this new realization to become liberated . OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Somewhere in the Akash
On May 24, 2007, at 8:00 AM, Rick Archer wrote: But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. Well, at least they won't end up together in patala-loka with Mahesh...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma
On May 24, 2007, at 8:15 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Below is the Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma that drives them crazy, so they ignore it and go off making crappy jokes to each other, or changing the subject to Cajun Cooking Tips or some other nonsense: There will never come a time when Science (research published in peer- reviewed scientific journals) will be superceded by New Age self-agrandizing dribble. This is the reality of life. This is the modern world. You need to accept this new realization to become liberated . Likewise, the TM Fundies need to realize that nonduality, Brahman, Self knowing Self, etc. are beyond the scope of science. If you want real liberation, stop looking for it in bondage to different and esoteric states of duality. ...or what are actually exoteric advertising tracts and marketing shenanigans. TM research should be viewed at the same level of suspicion that one would look at a report on global warming by Exxon or a cigarrette safety study by Phillip-Morris.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) I'm not sure even the most ardent supporter of TM would suggest that this could happen after, what, nine months or so of meditation, would they? It's a nice thought though! It would be unusual, certainly, but theoretically not impossible. Doesn't necessarily mean you're on the brink of enlightenment, though. Experiences can come and go, sometimes even very advanced experiences, right from the start and at any point along the way. But sleep witnessing is what I was thinking of when I asked whether you were tired during the day. When I had my spell of seeming insomnia, I'm pretty sure there was some component of witnessing involved, although it wasn't at all a clear experience of it. And after a while, it went away completely. ;-) Sleep deprivation can be hard to gauge, however. You may be more sleep-deprived than you realize. On the other hand, that time seems to go by quickly isn't like normal insomnia, so it's hard to say. I don't think you said whether you tend to get drowsy or fall asleep during meditation. If not, that would also suggest you're maybe having some aspect of sleep witnessing at night. Bottom line, if it isn't causing you major problems, you probably shouldn't worry about it. Somebody else suggested a physical checkup, which wouldn't be a bad idea just on general principles. And if there's a sleep lab anywhere near you, and your doctor would prescribe a test (and your insurance would cover it), it might be kind of fun to see what the lab folks think is going on. The TM researchers have done a bunch of studies on sleep witnessing. You might want to see if you can look them up, maybe find them in a library. They probably mostly deal with highly technical EEG-type data, but they may also include subjects' reports on what the experience feels like, which could give you a clue.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Fundies' Dilemma
On May 24, 2007, at 8:13 AM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: That is good off_world, assuming the placing of TM peer-review is peerless or that brainwaves such measures an enlightenment as such. Of course an irony in is that the glossy brainwave charts that were held up, posted up, used (touted)for so long to demonstrate something about the 'TM'sidhis was taken from advanced buddhist practitioners who had come to MIU for courses and learned the TM-Siddhis. Quieting the mind with TM is one thing possibly. Where is the chart that shows the light of the Purusha resident in the heart, body mind complex of the human experience? Enlightenment may just be more than about charts of galvanic skin resistance and the mind transcending. Could the TM-fundies consider that? They are kind of entrenched and dull on that. I am glad you are here taking up their cause, like a public defender of the faithful. In real samadhi, there are actually profound changes to the physiology which are of great interest to scientists--it's just that these types of markers have yet to appear in TMers. So they exaggerate and try to make mountains out of the molehills they have. TM is scientifically almost identical the EEG patterns of people napping or in some phase of the waking-sleep cycle. TM/TMSP EEG coherence is very, very little difference also from these same coherence patterns. What they don't tell you is that a certain amount of coherence is natural and necessary for normal functioning. Tm varies only a hair from this norm. Most neurosceintists would consider it insignificant. Meditators truly in samadhi actually show *profound*, high-amplitude coherence as if the brain were acting like a hyper-neuron network. Those of you in Fairfield who practice the TMSP might want to check out the upcoming lecture on kundalini by Saraswati line-holder Joan Harrigan if you want to find out what the TMSP *really* does to the physiology.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the 21st century people will only listen to research published peer-reviewed scientific journals, not heresay, conspiracy theories, and the meandering monologues posted here. This is a fact of life. There is no getting away from that. It is the Rationalists Victory over fundamentalism and tribalism. It is not totally perfect yet of course, but in the next 20 - 50 years, it will become more and more apparent what is efficacious and what is effluence. This is the modern world. Thus it would follow, and I presume you believe that, TM is an effective means to improve many physiologic and some cognitive functions. And that Ayur veda, Vaastu housing, jyotish,gems to ward of danger, yagyas, ghandarva music, darshan, the benefits of being in tune with MMY's thinking, rajas, crowns, celibacy, Purusha and MD style programs, siddhis, the benefits of reading sanskrit literature (in sanskrit), listening to vedic pundits, reading ninth an 10th mandala of Rig veda, laws of manu, maharishi organic food (vs regualr organic food), etc are examples of irrational fundamentalism and tribalism and should be ignored.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My response to a friend's suggestion that we engage in a discussion about th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: In the 21st century people will only listen to research published peer-reviewed scientific journals, not heresay, conspiracy theories, and the meandering monologues posted here. This is a fact of life. There is no getting away from that. It is the Rationalists Victory over fundamentalism and tribalism. It is not totally perfect yet of course, but in the next 20 - 50 years, it will become more and more apparent what is efficacious and what is effluence. This is the modern world. Thus it would follow, and I presume you believe that, TM is an effective means to improve many physiologic and some cognitive functions. And that Ayur veda, Vaastu housing, jyotish,gems to ward of danger, yagyas, ghandarva music, darshan, the benefits of being in tune with MMY's thinking, rajas, crowns, celibacy, Purusha and MD style programs, siddhis, the benefits of reading sanskrit literature (in sanskrit), listening to vedic pundits, reading ninth an 10th mandala of Rig veda, laws of manu, maharishi organic food (vs regualr organic food), etc are examples of irrational fundamentalism and tribalism and should be ignored. This rationalist view is further supported by: - Off_world Scientifically speaking they are considered complete bunk and always have been considered such by science. You have been self-brainwashed into believing there is something to them, when there is no convincing evidence for them . A born again christian has as much evidence for the fact that a ghost named jesush made them feel better. No-one in the modern scientific world has any interest in any religion or ancient rites unless it is verified in peer-reviewed scientific journals. All of it is considered complete baloney by science, unless it has some verification. That is the way it should be. And in addition to rejecting the above list, it appears to further follow that all scientific rational thinkers should reject the notion of higher states of consciousness (cc, gc, uc, bc and above) since these have not been scientifically validated. Further, it follows from your well-articulated view, that claims the ME is the causal factor of the rise in the stock market, since it has not been published in peer reviewd journals, should also be considered bunk.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Fundies' Dilemma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In real samadhi, (as defined by Vaj, that is) there are actually profound changes to the physiology which are of great interest to scientists--it's just that these types of markers have yet to appear in TMers. So they exaggerate and try to make mountains out of the molehills they have. TM is scientifically almost identical the EEG patterns of people napping or in some phase of the waking-sleep cycle. TM/TMSP EEG coherence is very, very little difference also from these same coherence patterns. Based on looking only at the early TM studies, Vaj once again forgets to note (as well as some serious misunderstandings of the TM process and theory). The researchers who examined the TM studies, moreover, were doing so under the auspices of an organization devoted to finding scientific validation of Buddhist principles. One of the three authors is a Buddhist scholar and author; another is a longtime friend of the Dalai Lama and one of the most important scientists in the Dalai Lama's quest to validate Buddhism with science, according to Wikipedia. So there's a built-in bias involved (just as there is with the TM researchers). Regarding the sleep issue, the study says: The initial claim that TM produces a unique state of consciousness different than sleep has been refuted by several EEG meditation studies which reported sleeplike stages during this technique with increased alpha and then theta power. Of course, these findings have by no means refuted TM's claim to produce a unique state of consciousness. TM has never claimed that this unique state is found continuously throughout the meditation period; it occurs sporadically for varying lengths of time. (Plus which, as I recall, at least one of these studies was performed under distinctly unfavorable conditions; the subjects were college students, and the tests were done during a period of the year when the students would be expected to be more tired than usual--I think it may have been during an exam period at the end of the semester, but I can't remember the exact details. In any case, periods of drowsiness or sleep during TM are not at all uncommon and are considered perfectly normal.) This is such an obvious straw man that it's hard to believe it was inadvertent; and if it was, it demonstrates significant ignorance of what TM's claims actually *are*. It's not the only such problem with this study, but it's so egregious that it suggests the researchers really did not do their homework.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma
On May 23, 2007, at 9:37 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Below is the Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma that drives them crazy, so they ignore it and go off making crappy jokes to each other, or changing the subject to Cajun Cooking Tips or some other nonsense: There will never come a time when Science (research published in peer- reviewed scientific journals) will be superceded by New Age self-agrandizing dribble. This is the reality of life. This is the modern world. You need to accept this new realization to become liberated . If this is indeed the case (I suspect it is not) then you should expect to see TM and the TMSP fade from view. Recent scientific studies on meditation show the results of meditators in actual samadhi and show a profound level of gamma coherence, one of the primary markers for samadhi. These same markers are not present in TM. Also deep meditators show a market decrease in metabolic rate 5-6 times deeper than relaxation techniques like TM. It could just be that legitimate science will make inferior methods a thing of the past as spiritual consumers actually choose methods which really do work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) I'm not sure even the most ardent supporter of TM would suggest that this could happen after, what, nine months or so of meditation, would they? It's a nice thought though! John Hi, it has nothing to do with the time meditating. Once the door is opened, its open, regardless of the time it took to turn the key. Meditators these days in general have far clearer experiences, faster, than did those that started a while back. So yes, it is entirely possible you are witnessing sleep. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Somewhere in the Akash
On May 24, 2007, at 7:00 AM, Rick Archer wrote: that when we get to Brahman there will be a large number of saints somewhere in the Akash Just floating around in the ether, eh? Gosh, Rick, with friends like this... Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
ME: The fact that any discussion is going on at all seems like a good thing to me. I certainly am enjoying it. The quality of the his post is just above the you are a poopy pants level, but perhaps we can collectively raise the bar here. I don't think anyone here wants this person to stop doing MMY's programs, so we might be able to have a discussion without the same need for personal attacks. I'll bet I wont be able to be pure in this regard...but I'll give it a shot. HIM: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). ME: Without giving any content to what is doubted, but criticizing the mental state itself, it can be applied to anything. Let's apply it to the doubt this person is experiencing concerning Rick (and others) sincerity concerning their changing perspective on MMY and his teaching. If we take MMY at his word then this person must stop doubting that we are being sincere and since it is so open ended, he should even stop doubting our conclusions because of the harm it will cause his nervous system. But this is not really what is meant. It is only stated this way to avoid how it sounds when we spell out the actual meaning as he is using it here. What must not be doubted is MMY's intentions or his teaching specifically. What must be rejected is any other teaching other than MMY's. As far as not being disappointed, WTF? Disappointment is just an emotion often caused by the gap between our goals and our achievements. It helps us know when we are on track. The only way to avoid it is to lower your goals so far that you always achieve them. As far as being disappointed in other people's behavior, this is caused by our expectation of good from someone and there lack of living up to what we expect from them. I would rather start by giving a person an excellent reputation to live up to and then let the chips fall where they may. But if you see everyone as a self-serving asshole you might be able to avoid ever being disappointed in another person I guess. (it sounds damaging to the nervous system) HIM: In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. ME: Demoted to a seeker! No longer a knower. All because Rick expected something which caused doubt leading to disappointment. (I'm guessing that these ideas comes from John Gray.) Although he tries to position himself as a humble person: I would guess (because, of course I don't know) this is just spin. This is the guy who already demoted you to seeker. HIM: A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky ME: The condescension begins in earnest now. This is his first use of the diminutive form of your name. HIM: is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where--(that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. ME: So although there is no evidence for Rick being angry, frustrated, rejected, vengeful and attacking, he knows this a priori about Rick. He knows the underlying dynamics. The science-y sounding terms are all just window dressing on the poopy pants personal attack. None of the ideas you may have about MMY are being discussed. This is because you are acting out of anger, aggression and vengeance, so no discussion of ideas is necessary. You are a person with bad emotions so your ideas don't have to be considered. It sure beats actually discussing any real points of view doesn't it? Just attack the person rather then the argument. It is so convenient. It is interesting how people love to throw in scientific terms as if this gives their attack more legitimacy. 4 out of 5 movement scientist surveyed think Rick is wrong! I love how he turns Rick's desire for rational open discussions into an aggressive act! HIM: Patanjali does endorse in the Yoga sutras, any reliable meditation. He therefore
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Well put -- this sounds a lot like a form of sleep-witnessing, when the Self, pure consciousness, the Witness, begins to shine forth so strongly that we feel as if we're always awake, even while the body is actually sleeping. It's generally considered to be a Good Thing, one of the signposts of growing Enlightenment -- even if it does take a little getting used to! :-) I'm not sure even the most ardent supporter of TM would suggest that this could happen after, what, nine months or so of meditation, would they? It's a nice thought though! John Why not ? The experiences of those learning today compared to, say 30 years ago are spectacular. To have initiates witnessing after a few weeks or months of TM is rather common now.
[FairfieldLife] Soma and the gods (was Re: American Culture vs. Vedic Culture)
Maybe so, but the Rig Veda Manadala IX and X says nothing about a psychedelic substance secreted in the gut. In fact, the Rig Veda describes Soma as a decoction prepared from plants and a fungus. However, it has been established by Robert Keith Wallace at MUM that the primary ingredient produced by TM practice is Seratonin, which is secreted in the brain, not in the gut. Are you thinking that you're producing Soma in your gut AND Seratonin in your brain? John wrote: I'm not saying it. MMY said it. Apparently Rig Veda Mandala IX and X, which describe Soma as a psychedelic decotion made from various plants and a fungus, are the two most favorite chapters of MMY, since these two chapters were selected to be included in the a book and passed out on numerous TTCs. A reprint of these books used to be available from MUM Press. The Rig Veda has nothing to say about Soma being produced in the gut. I don't know where MMY got this idea, but maybe he should have read the book BEFORE he made his comments. But at this point it's all academic, John: some TMers have the 'The Book of the Rig', some TMers have a 'fungus in the stomach', some TMers have the 'Soma in the Gut', and all TMers have the 'Seratonin on the Brain', and some TMers have the 'Marshy Amrit Kailash', some TMers have the 'Ayer in the Ved', plus the 'TM 2 x 20', and enlightenment is just a few minutes away, or 5 - 7 years, whichever comes first. It's that simple. Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.meditation, alt.yoga, alt.magick.tantra, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy From: willytex Date: 6 Aug 2004 Subject: Nectar of the Gods? http://tinyurl.com/ysq7oc Warning!!! This is the only message in this thread.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ME: The fact that any discussion is going on at all seems like a good thing to me. I certainly am enjoying it. The quality of the his post is just above the you are a poopy pants level, but perhaps we can collectively raise the bar here. I don't think anyone here wants this person to stop doing MMY's programs, so we might be able to have a discussion without the same need for personal attacks. I'll bet I wont be able to be pure in this regard...but I'll give it a shot. HIM: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). ME: Without giving any content to what is doubted, but criticizing the mental state itself, it can be applied to anything. Let's apply it to the doubt this person is experiencing concerning Rick (and others) sincerity concerning their changing perspective on MMY and his teaching. If we take MMY at his word then this person must stop doubting that we are being sincere and since it is so open ended, he should even stop doubting our conclusions because of the harm it will cause his nervous system. But this is not really what is meant. It is only stated this way to avoid how it sounds when we spell out the actual meaning as he is using it here. What must not be doubted is MMY's intentions or his teaching specifically. What must be rejected is any other teaching other than MMY's. As far as not being disappointed, WTF? Disappointment is just an emotion often caused by the gap between our goals and our achievements. It helps us know when we are on track. The only way to avoid it is to lower your goals so far that you always achieve them. As far as being disappointed in other people's behavior, this is caused by our expectation of good from someone and there lack of living up to what we expect from them. I would rather start by giving a person an excellent reputation to live up to and then let the chips fall where they may. But if you see everyone as a self-serving asshole you might be able to avoid ever being disappointed in another person I guess. (it sounds damaging to the nervous system) HIM: In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. ME: Demoted to a seeker! No longer a knower. All because Rick expected something which caused doubt leading to disappointment. (I'm guessing that these ideas comes from John Gray.) Although he tries to position himself as a humble person: I would guess (because, of course I don't know) this is just spin. This is the guy who already demoted you to seeker. snip ME: So although there is no evidence for Rick being angry, frustrated, rejected, vengeful and attacking, he knows this a priori about Rick. Hmm, sorta the way you know a priori that the guy is not being sincere when he asserts that he is just speculating, huh? Try this as an exercise: Assume for the sake of argument that he *is* sincere that he is just speculating, and that he's saying *if* it's the case that Rick's disappointment and doubt has led to anger and frustration, Rick might well manifest those emotions by apparently rationally questioning MMY's character. In other words, is that a plausible psychological scenario? (Not even necessarily for Rick but for people in general.) I ask because the rest of your post appears to be based on your assumption that this person has concluded that *this IS the case* with Rick, as opposed to speculating that it *might* be the case with Rick. You seem to be reacting to what you characterize as a firm conclusion, when the guy has explicitly said it's *not* a conclusion. Why is this guy's doubt about the basis for Rick's questioning of MMY's character (i.e., coming from anger rather than rationality) any different from your doubt about the guy's sincerity that he's only speculating? (Caveat: I'm not arguing in favor of his speculation about Rick, just pointing out that you're doing the same thing you accuse him of doing, making assumptions without any evidence.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Below is the Anti-TM Fundies' Dilemma that drives them crazy, so they ignore it and go off making crappy jokes to each other, or changing the subject to Cajun Cooking Tips or some other nonsense: There will never come a time when Science (research published in peer- reviewed scientific journals) will be superceded by New Age self-agrandizing dribble. This is the reality of life. This is the modern world. You need to accept this new realization to become liberated . Likewise, the TM Fundies need to realize that nonduality, Brahman, Self knowing Self, etc. are beyond the scope of science. If you want real liberation, stop looking for it in bondage to different and esoteric states of duality. Scientific studies was not done to convince TM-ers but was an offer to the scientific community.
[FairfieldLife] Re:JULY 7, 2007 AL GORE AND A PLANET IN CRISIS CONCERT WORLDWIDE
Al Gore announced on Larry King live that seven continents will hold a concert to continue educating people about the problem of global warming. I had predicted in 1995 that it would be celebrities and grass roots organizations along with scientists that would bring about a spiritual revolution in humanity. I also predicted in 1995 that in 2008 men and women would stand beside each other as equals. Therefore, I predict that Hilary Clinton will be the next president and Obama will be her vice president. However, there will be some surprises along the way during this presidential run. UFO activity will be high enough to consider a government beyond ours and President Bush will pull the trump card (Osama Bin Ladin) in the fall of 2007 around September or October just when the democrats want to start a pull out of Iraq. This will complicate the situation with terrorism rather than calm it down. Bush will be trying to end his term as a war hero and to revitalize his party with the capture or killing of Bin Ladin. This will not work. Please take the time out to visit Al Gore and friends as many intuitive's have been talking about July 7, 2007 as a portal opening up from the seventh dimension to add more energy to the areas on earth that are powerful conductors of spirituality. This is one of the dates I am predicting MMY will pass over. The other dates in July for his passing would be July 16, 17 or around Guru Purnima day. If not July it will be August. It is time for MMY to move on because he has held up the energy of the Age of Enlightenment since 1993. And there are too many people continuing the anger and discontent within the TM community only adding more stress to the collective nightmare that is happening. The TMO will never change but it's audience will not be the same without MMY. Many will move on and continue his mission outside of the TMO which will move things much faster. As many of you know many people have already moved on and have taken their practice with them. I have been a regular practitioner of TM for 29 years and will continue until the day my body dies. America will be moving in a spiritual direction by the spring of 2009 and things will get much better everywhere. Al Gore's webiste for the July 7th concert is _SOS | Live Earth | 7.7.07»Blog Archive » AL GORE, KEVIN WALL, PHARRELL, MANÁ,_ (http://liveearth.org/?p=22) Sincerely, Lsoma . ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
OK, he is speculating in his personal attack instead of dealing with the issues themselves. Since it is just a speculation does that make it any better in your eyes? Not in mine. His sincerity about his speculation is irrelevant to my criticism of his approach. I am not criticizing his sincerity, I am criticizing the content of his speculations, so this is just a straw man. If I say that I am speculating that the guy might be an asshole, it doesn't get me off the hook for acting like a dick in the discussion. As far as your psychological scanario and its plausibility, that assumes that you consider this a valid way to discuss ideas. I do not. I am not making any claims about the physiological state of this guy, I am addressing the points he made about Rick. The psychobabble doesn't impress me, this is just an old story with new terms. Turning this discussion into an analysis of Rick's inner psyche is just a familiar move of people who can't discuss ideas without personal attacks. I am drawing conclusions from what he wrote and giving my opinion of it. This has nothing to do with making assumptions without evidence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: ME: The fact that any discussion is going on at all seems like a good thing to me. I certainly am enjoying it. The quality of the his post is just above the you are a poopy pants level, but perhaps we can collectively raise the bar here. I don't think anyone here wants this person to stop doing MMY's programs, so we might be able to have a discussion without the same need for personal attacks. I'll bet I wont be able to be pure in this regard...but I'll give it a shot. HIM: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). ME: Without giving any content to what is doubted, but criticizing the mental state itself, it can be applied to anything. Let's apply it to the doubt this person is experiencing concerning Rick (and others) sincerity concerning their changing perspective on MMY and his teaching. If we take MMY at his word then this person must stop doubting that we are being sincere and since it is so open ended, he should even stop doubting our conclusions because of the harm it will cause his nervous system. But this is not really what is meant. It is only stated this way to avoid how it sounds when we spell out the actual meaning as he is using it here. What must not be doubted is MMY's intentions or his teaching specifically. What must be rejected is any other teaching other than MMY's. As far as not being disappointed, WTF? Disappointment is just an emotion often caused by the gap between our goals and our achievements. It helps us know when we are on track. The only way to avoid it is to lower your goals so far that you always achieve them. As far as being disappointed in other people's behavior, this is caused by our expectation of good from someone and there lack of living up to what we expect from them. I would rather start by giving a person an excellent reputation to live up to and then let the chips fall where they may. But if you see everyone as a self-serving asshole you might be able to avoid ever being disappointed in another person I guess. (it sounds damaging to the nervous system) HIM: In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. ME: Demoted to a seeker! No longer a knower. All because Rick expected something which caused doubt leading to disappointment. (I'm guessing that these ideas comes from John Gray.) Although he tries to position himself as a humble person: I would guess (because, of course I don't know) this is just spin. This is the guy who already demoted you to seeker. snip ME: So although there is no evidence for Rick being angry, frustrated, rejected, vengeful and attacking, he knows this a priori about Rick. Hmm, sorta the way you know a priori that the guy is not being sincere when he asserts that he is just speculating, huh? Try this as an exercise: Assume for the sake of argument that he *is* sincere that he is just speculating, and that he's saying *if* it's the case that Rick's disappointment and doubt has led to anger and frustration, Rick might well manifest those emotions by apparently rationally questioning MMY's character. In other words, is that a plausible
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Rick, I gotta tip my hat to you for keeping whatever it is you got going that folks like The Purusha Guy trust enough to, you know, actually deign to communicate with you (us.) Even though this guy probably cannot be reached by any reasoning or experimental results-to-the-contrary-of-TM-dogma, to me, it's nice to bump up against these little touches of the movement now and then -- like they were tarantulas in a petting zoo. I think the mindset expressed by this guy is chilling, and yes, I practiced that very mindset for decades. This practice improved my skills greatly -- in fact, even today, I could still write a much smarmier and haughtier piece than this guy's work, below. It's like riding a bike, eh? Hell, I told all my initiates that, Yes, on average, in about 5 - 8 years, one can reasonably expect to have enlightenment just around the corner if not fully blossomed. I had been meditating for less than a year but I was teaching TM, and oh so sure about those nuclear bombs of truth -- 5 - 8 years to freedom, and deeper rest than sleep can achieve -- and I was no slouch when it came small arms fire either as I sold that even in a few days one can notice profound results. Hey, in the jungles of Africa, a village medicine man can shake a bone at someone, and everyone in the village knows that bonified guy is going to die, and sure enough the guy dies. So, who was I to NOT make those promises which I spoke almost verbatim (we all memorized checking notes, puja words, puja meanings, puja actions, 1st and 2nd lectures, 3 days checking, 10 day follow up) cuz those were the words of an enlightened saint didn'tchaknow, and so fershure they would come true. Then more swiftly than an Arjuna arrow can pierce a demon's heart, 29 years passed, and there was I with 2,000 people I had taken money from by selling these fantasies to them, and I was the proud owner of a ruined life with no fucking enlightenment, no worldly success roaring under me like a beloved pet tiger, no visions of Guru Dev thanking God for creating me, no person on Mother Divine or Purusha who could hover, no old folks kicking their heels and doing 360's on skateboards, no birds alighting on my shoulders whispering messages from Saint Frances, no marvelous psychic insights, no vaunting wisdom, no movement leaders finally maturing into obvious masters, no kids planning on staying forever near utopian Fairfield's hearth light, no TM business people with ethics towards their employees, no fucking nothing except the fucking over by an ancient Hindu promise machine that, go figure, found out that its marketing techniques worked on hippies with trust funds. Honesty is such a lonely word. Everyone is so untrue. Honesty is hardly ever heard. And mostly what I need from you, Maharishi. And to think all my failure could have all been avoided if I had been forewarned about doubt. I firehosed doubt's least spark in my or my family's life, but I gotta tell ya, ain't nothing seeing King Nadar's crown for a lethal dose of doubt. I fought da doubt. And da doubt won. I'm only a man with one brain, and the movement's tsunami of disdain, avalanche of greed, and deep impact of hypocrisy done did me in. But h, maybe I should get me a jar of honey and bring back big bombast and become a bumblebum for Bevan. Say that aloud three times fast. Now, let's get something straight FOR THE REST OF TIME. Here it is: After 29 years, I still have that fucking anger, undissipated, and it's muscling me around like a ventriloquist's dummy. I'm confessing here. My lizard brain wasn't calmed down after all that time, but I'm betting that The Purusha Guy will go out on the streets today and promise every manner of protection from the evils of the body and mind. And he'll gladly take not just your initiation fees but also every other dime you or your family or your child's college fund has, and then, if you complain about lack of results, he'll kick you in the face and say, You doubter! Now that's evil. That's cruelty. That's enough for me want to take this guy's smirk off his face with a custard pie. Why hell, if I'd hit a punching bag for as many times as I took the mantra, I'd be a freaking martial artist master, but, in my astral mirror, my soul still looks like a pasty ass geek with a psychic body that looks like it could be bested by even a Scientologist or Mormon. I didn't even get spiritual muscles out of the deal. If I'd done ANYTHING ELSE as much as I did that mantra, I'd be world class in that anything. ANYTHING. Now here's the best part of this: TM IS A WONDERFUL TECHNIQUE -- it evaporates identification. How ironic that it is sold as a way to make identification enjoyable! Rick, I'm worried for you. You're taking one for the team on a regular basis when you have folks like this putting stuff inside yer brain. All hail Rick! All hail Rick! All hail Rick! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was from the friend (whom you call The Purusha Guy but who is actually married) with whom I've been having that discussion. Evidently he shared our discussion with a mutual friend, whose identity I'm not told, as I shared it with all of you, and then forwarded that friend's comments to me, as I've forwarded some of yours to him: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where-- (that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. Patanjali does endorse in the Yoga sutras, any reliable meditation. He therefore give his blessings on different forms of meditation--So it seems to me, that when we get to Brahman there will be a large number of saints somewhere in the Akash that have arrived there from a variety of means--some faster--some slower--I mean everyone we know of who got enlightened got there by a slightly different path (Maharaja, Ramakrishna, the Buddha, etc.) But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. He might be right or wrong in discussing your case, but thanks for posting this Rick.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, he is speculating in his personal attack instead of dealing with the issues themselves. Since it is just a speculation does that make it any better in your eyes? Not in mine. His sincerity about his speculation is irrelevant to my criticism of his approach. Well, no, most of your criticism is based on your assumption that he's *accusing* Rick of this, that, and the other thing, rather than speculating about what *might* be the case. Read your original post over again. I just did.
[FairfieldLife] Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
Now that's one fine piece of rationalization. Hats off to Coulter! To in one breath call immigants what they actually are -- slaves -- and then use that fact as a reason to hate Democrats of 150 years ago instead of, you know, hating the very elitist Kennedy and his merry band of gladhanding pork barrelers is a feat of cosmic legerdemain. Not to trivialize Nazis, but geeze Ann comes off like she's saying hate the Jews cuz they insist on hanging around tourist towns like Auschwitz. Okay, I take it back. The Purusha Guy is safe. Ann gets the custard pie in the puss instead. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Many thanks, Rick! It's been fun to explore these energies. A few thoughts interspersed below... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was from the friend (whom you call The Purusha Guy but who is actually married) with whom I've been having that discussion. Evidently he shared our discussion with a mutual friend, whose identity I'm not told, as I shared it with all of you, and then forwarded that friend's comments to me, as I've forwarded some of yours to him: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). Invoking an External Authority *really* doesn't do it for me, doesn't touch my Heart. Maharishi says and Maharishi said or the Dalai Lama says or the Bible says are so often used as a hammer to smite the Unfaithful, intended to squelch independent thought (Eclecticism) -- right up there with threatening them with going to Patala-Hell. Fundamentalism, in short. A Fundamentalist is threatened by so many bad things, as if they are outside the self, things to somehow be avoided. Attraction- Aversion still runs unchallenged. To an Eclectic or Lover or Anandist, it's not Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection -- and Anger, let's not forget Anger -- that are damaging; it's the further *denial* of these particles that is damaging! Again, it appears here as if a POV-4 Love-truth -- that we can (and constantly do) choose our state of consciousness -- is being warped into a POV-2 Fundamentalist stance of mood-making and denial. But I guess that's just the dynamics of how any given harmonic is interpreted by the next younger one. It is fascinating, all right. In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), A POV-2 Fundamentalist knower *cannot* comprehend a POV-3 Eclectic, but has to place them back in POV-1, as a Chaotic/evil seeker. In general a POV-4 Lover has fully embraced POV-3 doubt and despair and anger and Hell, and is no longer afraid of them, no longer sees them as outside the self; it is all perfect, though there are certainly residual particles from the past to be fully understood, loved and healed ...the Fundamentalist-self, for example :-) is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where-- (that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) This is equally true of the POV-3 Eclectic and the POV-2 Fundamentalist. The only difference is, the POV-3 Eclectic is no longer denying these qualities, so they are much less toxic and damaging to the nervous system then they were in POV-2. Denial is tamas (POV-2 Fundamentalism); acting out is rajas (POV-3 Eclecticism); unconditional clarity/truth is sattva (POV-4 Love)... lather, rinse, repeat? :-) So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. They certainly are -- this letter reeks of unacknowledged anger, aggression and vengeance! LOVE It! Yummm! Nothing like a little salsa to liven up a meal. Patanjali does endorse in the Yoga sutras, any reliable meditation. He therefore give his blessings on different forms of meditation--So it seems to me, that when we get to Brahman there will be a large number of saints somewhere in the Akash that have arrived there from a variety of means--some faster--some slower--I mean everyone we know of who got enlightened got there by a slightly different path (Maharaja, Ramakrishna, the Buddha, etc.) But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. Again, this is a *perfect* example of how a POV-2 has to see a POV-3. My question now is, could this actually be a higher resonance of the field-state -- POV-6 or POV-8, say, that I am not recognizing? I bet on some levels it Absolutely is! Sweet! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. --Ann Coulter This paragraph by itself should resolve the doubts of anyone who has ever entertained the possibility that Ann Coulter is not one of the most viciously intellectually dishonest individuals on the planet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
shempmcgurk wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. The left? I believe it is big business that is hiring illegals and they generally vote Republican. Coulter is a real nutcase.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
In a message dated 5/24/2007 2:14:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. --Ann Coulter This paragraph by itself should resolve the doubts of anyone who has ever entertained the possibility that Ann Coulter is not one of the most viciously intellectually dishonest individuals on the planet. She is a player in the game of capatalism and will do anything to sell a book. If the Repulicans or the Democrats had any wisdom they would invest in Mexico's economy and within five years it would solve the immigration problem. Pretty simple. Instead we have been investing in China. Does this make any sense? Lsoma. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. The left? I believe it is big business that is hiring illegals and they generally vote Republican. Coulter is a real nutcase. Why ruin a good argument with facts and logic? Geez, what's wrong with you? Must be a slave loving lefty ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
[FairfieldLife] Machine gives full night's sleep in 3 hours
http://www.newscloud.com/read/83671/Machine Means End To Sleepless NightsUpdated: 09:50, Sunday May 06, 2007A new discovery could make it possible to take a "power nap" at the flick of a switch.Scientists have found a way to turn on deep sleep at will using a machine that magnetically stimulates the brain.Sweet dreamsA device worn on the head could in squeeze the benefit of eight hours' sleep into just two or three hours.Scientists in the US used a technique called transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) to induce slow waves - indicative of the deepest phase of sleep and essential for learning ability and mood, in a group of sleeping volunteers.A TMS device sends harmless magnetic signals through the scalp and skull and into the brain, where it activates electrical impulses.The researchers found that positioning the TMS machine the right way triggered slow waves that travelled throughout the brain.Slow wave activity occupies 80% of sleeping hours.During slow wave sleep, waves of electrical impulses wash across the brain at a rate of roughly one a second.With each magnetic pulse, the volunteers' brains immediately generated slow waves typical of deep sleep."Creating slow waves on demand could some day lead to treatments for insomnia," said study leader Prof Giulio Tononi, from the University of Wisconsin-Madison."Theoretically, it could also lead to a magnetically stimulated `power nap' which might confer the benefit of eight hours' sleep in just a few hours."Prof Tononi believes sleep is essential to prevent the brain overloading.Memory involves strengthening synapses - connections between brain cells formed by learning.Sleep might allow the connections created during the day to relax at night, according to Prof Tononi.The research appeared in an early edition of the American journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Free TM conference in DC, June 6 -- new Hagelin video
new John Hagelin video on recent corporate receptivity to TM; and invitation to impressive June 6 Conference/Luncheon in DC (free for meditators and their non-meditating guests) http://www.tmbusiness.org/video/announcement_conference.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. The left? I believe it is big business that is hiring illegals and they generally vote Republican. Coulter is a real nutcase. Where do you get your silly notions, Bhairitu? The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Illegals, in almost all circumstances, work for small businesses, small contractors, and individuals...in other words, wherever they can get cash.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Somewhere in the Akash
Some comments: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). And so is Denial, Mood-making, and Uncritical belief. In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) That's right, you don't know and that undergraduate course you took in college about Freud does not even begin to give you the priveledge of speculating regarding the psychodynamics of human behavior. You have no training and no clinical experience. the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation) Or perhaps the doubt arose from discrimination. A fine attribute of the intellect. When your guru claims to be celibate yet is boinkin' all the pretty girls in the ashram its okay to discriminate, yes? --which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky Now, you do know you are an asshole, right? But please don't take offense with that term because I mean it in a good way. is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where--(that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) Ah, that course in Freud coming up again and the hydraulic metaphor. That psychic energy has to go somewhere, right? Wrong. so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) So now you are a neuropsychologist. By the way, a lizard does not have a limbic system. Did you know that? People try to use different areas of the brain as representative metaphors for human thought and then start taking them a little too literally. So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. Another illustration that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thank God for that frontal cortex that will mediate our lizard rage! Patanjali does endorse in the Yoga sutras, any reliable meditation. He therefore give his blessings on different forms of meditation--So it seems to me, that when we get to Brahman there will be a large number of saints somewhere in the Akash that have arrived there from a variety of means--some faster--some slower--I mean everyone we know of who got enlightened got there by a slightly different path (Maharaja, Ramakrishna, the Buddha, etc.) Thanks for the bone. May we have our bread now too, kind sir? But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. Oh, you haven't read your spiritual literature too carefully now. Saul loved slow baking Christians before he became Paul. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was from the friend (whom you call The Purusha Guy but who is actually married) with whom I've been having that discussion. Evidently he shared our discussion with a mutual friend, whose identity I'm not told, as I shared it with all of you, and then forwarded that friend's comments to me, as I've forwarded some of yours to him: But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. The problem with talking with these people is that they define bashing as saying anything that contradicts their view of MMY as beyond all human aspects and the greatest sage ever to walk the earth. It's not bashing to investigate into the truth about someone, anyone. And it's not spiritual to sit passively, naively, stupidly, and quietly ignoring all the questionable behaviors within the tmo - true spiritual people are passionately devoted to investigating into the truth of reality, adn true spiritual masters encourage that and don't exempt themselves as above questioning. There's another aspect of this which is really a more complex topic, but it's the issue of what makes these people think MMY is their master. MMY doesn't know most of them exist. Maybe they've been in a crowded room with him once or twice within the past 30 yrs, but they haven't gotten any personal advice or initiation from him. They practice his techniques but anyone who pays the costs gets the same standardized, non individualized practice. Even people who pay a million dollars get brief communications via teleconferences and the same old program, only longer maybe. MMY himself used to always say he wasnt and never wanted to be a personal master. I'm not necessarily against mass marketed standardized techniques, but doing those, even as a purusha, doesn't make MMY your master, that requires some sort of personal connection and teaching.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But, I don't know anybody who got there by bashing their previous master and trying to get others to join them. Oh, you haven't read your spiritual literature too carefully now. Saul loved slow baking Christians before he became Paul. Oh, you don't seem to have read yours too carefully either, Peter. What on earth makes you think Saul's persecution of Christians is an example of someone bashing his previous master?
[FairfieldLife] QnA on ADHD and TM
http://www.adhd-tm.org/questions.html
[FairfieldLife] Amish recycle MUM bldg
http://www.globalgoodnews.com/education-news-a.html?art=118001624850235
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: We fought a Civil War to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery. The left? I believe it is big business that is hiring illegals and they generally vote Republican. Coulter is a real nutcase. Where do you get your silly notions, Bhairitu? The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Illegals, in almost all circumstances, work for small businesses, small contractors, and individuals...in other words, wherever they can get cash. lol, get real Shemp, there are tens of thousands of them working for the US military machine. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Quick comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ME: The fact that any discussion is going on at all seems like a good thing to me. I certainly am enjoying it. The quality of the his post is just above the you are a poopy pants level, but perhaps we can collectively raise the bar here. I don't think anyone here wants this person to stop doing MMY's programs, so we might be able to have a discussion without the same need for personal attacks. I'll bet I wont be able to be pure in this regard...but I'll give it a shot. HIM: Doubt, Disappointment and Rejection are most damaging to the nervous system (Maharishi said). ME: Without giving any content to what is doubted, but criticizing the mental state itself, it can be applied to anything. Let's apply it to the doubt this person is experiencing concerning Rick (and others) sincerity concerning their changing perspective on MMY and his teaching. If we take MMY at his word then this person must stop doubting that we are being sincere and since it is so open ended, he should even stop doubting our conclusions because of the harm it will cause his nervous system. But this is not really what is meant. It is only stated this way to avoid how it sounds when we spell out the actual meaning as he is using it here. What must not be doubted is MMY's intentions or his teaching specifically. What must be rejected is any other teaching other than MMY's. As far as not being disappointed, WTF? Disappointment is just an emotion often caused by the gap between our goals and our achievements. It helps us know when we are on track. The only way to avoid it is to lower your goals so far that you always achieve them. As far as being disappointed in other people's behavior, this is caused by our expectation of good from someone and there lack of living up to what we expect from them. I would rather start by giving a person an excellent reputation to live up to and then let the chips fall where they may. But if you see everyone as a self-serving asshole you might be able to avoid ever being disappointed in another person I guess. (it sounds damaging to the nervous system) HIM: In considering the intrapsychic mechanics of what took place in Rick (and others) I would guess (because, of course, I don't know) the real issue with Rick and other seekers (I would classify them as seekers again, as they were before they had Maharishi), is that it all began with doubt (that sprung up due to expectation)--which led to disappointment, and in Ricks case being asked essentially to leave the movement--rejection. ME: Demoted to a seeker! No longer a knower. All because Rick expected something which caused doubt leading to disappointment. (I'm guessing that these ideas comes from John Gray.) Although he tries to position himself as a humble person: I would guess (because, of course I don't know) this is just spin. This is the guy who already demoted you to seeker. HIM: A rational, evolved, loving, soul like Ricky ME: The condescension begins in earnest now. This is his first use of the diminutive form of your name. HIM: is not going to go smash windows in the dome or lead a march against the movement--So, what to do then with the hurt, anger, frustration? Gotta go some where--(that's the law of dynamics--and psychodynamics--the energy in a system must express its self in the system--impress its influence on the system) so it gets sublimated into a rational, open discussion on essentially, the validity of Maharishi. Actually, it is quite aggressive in nature, but, the attack is conducted by the frontal cortex--not the limbic system (which is the primitive lizard brain) So it appears reasoned, open, and flexible. In actuality it is an as if debate. One appears as if he is not angry, frustrated, rejected and vengeful and attacking. One appears as if he wants to openly and lovingly discuss the issue--but that is the filter of the frontal cortex! Anger, aggression and vengeance are the underlying dynamics. ME: So although there is no evidence for Rick being angry, frustrated, rejected, vengeful and attacking, he knows this a priori about Rick. He knows the underlying dynamics. The science-y sounding terms are all just window dressing on the poopy pants personal attack. None of the ideas you may have about MMY are being discussed. This is because you are acting out of anger, aggression and vengeance, so no discussion of ideas is necessary. You are a person with bad emotions so your ideas don't have to be considered. It sure beats actually discussing any real points of view doesn't it? Just attack the person rather then the argument. It is so convenient. It is interesting how people love to throw in scientific terms as if this gives their attack more legitimacy. 4 out of 5 movement scientist surveyed think
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: **snip** Try this as an exercise: Assume for the sake of argument that he *is* sincere that he is just speculating, and that he's saying *if* it's the case that Rick's disappointment and doubt has led to anger and frustration, Rick might well manifest those emotions by apparently rationally questioning MMY's character. In other words, is that a plausible psychological scenario? (Not even necessarily for Rick but for people in general.) **snip to end** Judy, when I read the point in the guy's argument or speculation about Rick essentially (or possibly) 'masking' his true agenda of anger and frustration under a pretense of openess and objectivity, it really made me question if I really knew anyone who ever did that. I mean, I do know some people who attempt to project themselves in a favorable light when it is obvious that they are not (or not to the same degree, at least); but I don't know how anyone who could pull off 'objectivty' and 'openness' on any long term basis as a cover. You could pretend to be open and honest for the short term, but the longer you keep up the pretense it would seem to skew the person's peformance towards 'openness and honesty'. It didn't seem to me to be a plausible psychological scenario for anyone. And it doesn't sound plausible for Rick. (Not that 'that' was your point, I understand.) Marek
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Edg, great stuff. I'm totally in love with you. And totally agree about Rick. Thanks. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, I gotta tip my hat to you for keeping whatever it is you got going that folks like The Purusha Guy trust enough to, you know, actually deign to communicate with you (us.) Even though this guy probably cannot be reached by any reasoning or experimental results-to-the-contrary-of-TM-dogma, to me, it's nice to bump up against these little touches of the movement now and then -- like they were tarantulas in a petting zoo. I think the mindset expressed by this guy is chilling, and yes, I practiced that very mindset for decades. This practice improved my skills greatly -- in fact, even today, I could still write a much smarmier and haughtier piece than this guy's work, below. It's like riding a bike, eh? Hell, I told all my initiates that, Yes, on average, in about 5 - 8 years, one can reasonably expect to have enlightenment just around the corner if not fully blossomed. I had been meditating for less than a year but I was teaching TM, and oh so sure about those nuclear bombs of truth -- 5 - 8 years to freedom, and deeper rest than sleep can achieve -- and I was no slouch when it came small arms fire either as I sold that even in a few days one can notice profound results. Hey, in the jungles of Africa, a village medicine man can shake a bone at someone, and everyone in the village knows that bonified guy is going to die, and sure enough the guy dies. So, who was I to NOT make those promises which I spoke almost verbatim (we all memorized checking notes, puja words, puja meanings, puja actions, 1st and 2nd lectures, 3 days checking, 10 day follow up) cuz those were the words of an enlightened saint didn'tchaknow, and so fershure they would come true. Then more swiftly than an Arjuna arrow can pierce a demon's heart, 29 years passed, and there was I with 2,000 people I had taken money from by selling these fantasies to them, and I was the proud owner of a ruined life with no fucking enlightenment, no worldly success roaring under me like a beloved pet tiger, no visions of Guru Dev thanking God for creating me, no person on Mother Divine or Purusha who could hover, no old folks kicking their heels and doing 360's on skateboards, no birds alighting on my shoulders whispering messages from Saint Frances, no marvelous psychic insights, no vaunting wisdom, no movement leaders finally maturing into obvious masters, no kids planning on staying forever near utopian Fairfield's hearth light, no TM business people with ethics towards their employees, no fucking nothing except the fucking over by an ancient Hindu promise machine that, go figure, found out that its marketing techniques worked on hippies with trust funds. Honesty is such a lonely word. Everyone is so untrue. Honesty is hardly ever heard. And mostly what I need from you, Maharishi. And to think all my failure could have all been avoided if I had been forewarned about doubt. I firehosed doubt's least spark in my or my family's life, but I gotta tell ya, ain't nothing seeing King Nadar's crown for a lethal dose of doubt. I fought da doubt. And da doubt won. I'm only a man with one brain, and the movement's tsunami of disdain, avalanche of greed, and deep impact of hypocrisy done did me in. But h, maybe I should get me a jar of honey and bring back big bombast and become a bumblebum for Bevan. Say that aloud three times fast. Now, let's get something straight FOR THE REST OF TIME. Here it is: After 29 years, I still have that fucking anger, undissipated, and it's muscling me around like a ventriloquist's dummy. I'm confessing here. My lizard brain wasn't calmed down after all that time, but I'm betting that The Purusha Guy will go out on the streets today and promise every manner of protection from the evils of the body and mind. And he'll gladly take not just your initiation fees but also every other dime you or your family or your child's college fund has, and then, if you complain about lack of results, he'll kick you in the face and say, You doubter! Now that's evil. That's cruelty. That's enough for me want to take this guy's smirk off his face with a custard pie. Why hell, if I'd hit a punching bag for as many times as I took the mantra, I'd be a freaking martial artist master, but, in my astral mirror, my soul still looks like a pasty ass geek with a psychic body that looks like it could be bested by even a Scientologist or Mormon. I didn't even get spiritual muscles out of the deal. If I'd done ANYTHING ELSE as much as I did that mantra, I'd be world class in that anything. ANYTHING. Now here's the best part of this: TM IS A WONDERFUL TECHNIQUE -- it evaporates identification. How ironic that it is sold as a way to make
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. When you write all hire illegals, do they do it through sub- contractors (or contractors) or directly themselves? If through contractors or sub-contractors, then it is not them that is hiring them but the contractors or sub-contractors. If it is through themselves, it may happen only because all of the above companies each have 1,000s of employees and it can happen that a few fall through the cracks (particularly if the illegals have false documentation). What is your source?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: **snip** Try this as an exercise: Assume for the sake of argument that he *is* sincere that he is just speculating, and that he's saying *if* it's the case that Rick's disappointment and doubt has led to anger and frustration, Rick might well manifest those emotions by apparently rationally questioning MMY's character. In other words, is that a plausible psychological scenario? (Not even necessarily for Rick but for people in general.) **snip to end** Judy, when I read the point in the guy's argument or speculation about Rick essentially (or possibly) 'masking' his true agenda of anger and frustration under a pretense of openess and objectivity, it really made me question if I really knew anyone who ever did that. Fine. But my point was that Curtis didn't address the plausibility of the scenario. Instead, he bashed the guy for purportedly attacking Rick on the basis of no evidence, after having decided--on the basis of no evidence--that the guy wasn't telling the truth when he said he was just speculating. I was making a meta observation about *Curtis's* post, not addressing the validity or lack thereof of the guy's analysis. In my experience, Curtis tends to get all hoity-toity about folks not sticking to the evidence while he often does exactly the same thing he's criticizing. I mean, I do know some people who attempt to project themselves in a favorable light when it is obvious that they are not (or not to the same degree, at least); but I don't know how anyone who could pull off 'objectivty' and 'openness' on any long term basis as a cover. You could pretend to be open and honest for the short term, but the longer you keep up the pretense it would seem to skew the person's peformance towards 'openness and honesty'. It didn't seem to me to be a plausible psychological scenario for anyone. And it doesn't sound plausible for Rick. (Not that 'that' was your point, I understand.) Actually, it occurred to me this afternoon that Rick's open and objective and honest behavior looks very different when one has managed to get on his bad side (speaking from personal experience). So although this wasn't my point to Curtis, I'm beginning to think the guy's analysis may have been on target.
[FairfieldLife] A different explanation of stress release
When reading the following passage from Swami Muktananda's Satsang with Baba, Volume III (August 18, 1972, page 122), I thought that it was another explanation of the mechanics of stress release; that is, that the thoughts we have during meditation are indications of stress being released on the physical level: According to the seers of the yogic scriptures, countless impressions of past lives are embedded in the central nadi, sushumna. After Kundalini becomes awake, these impressions start rising to the surface. You should be aware that they are coming to the surface to be ejected from the system. If you are aware of this truth, you will find it entirely pointless to be concerned or overwhelmed by the feelings that come to the conscious surface.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. When you write all hire illegals, do they do it through sub- contractors (or contractors) or directly themselves? If through contractors or sub-contractors, then it is not them that is hiring them but the contractors or sub-contractors. If it is through themselves, it may happen only because all of the above companies each have 1,000s of employees and it can happen that a few fall through the cracks (particularly if the illegals have false documentation). What is your source? Right-wing sites that object to the hiring of illegals, just as Coulter does. Tyson Foods and Swift and Co., however, have been in the news recently as targets of massive government raids at their meat-packing plants, where hundreds of purported illegals were arrested. These were people doing the actual packing. I understand that Wal-Mart stores were also raided. Apparently their cleaning and maintenance contractors were hiring illegals with Wal-Mart's full knowledge and approval. The government sued, and Wal-Mart settled. When the company knows its contractors are hiring illegals, it erases any ethical distinction between the contractor and the company. It is the money hogs that foster this anger towards the illegals, so that no one looks at the money hogs instead. Its a shell game which most of the country falls for, again and again.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. When you write all hire illegals, do they do it through sub- contractors (or contractors) or directly themselves? If through contractors or sub-contractors, then it is not them that is hiring them but the contractors or sub-contractors. If it is through themselves, it may happen only because all of the above companies each have 1,000s of employees and it can happen that a few fall through the cracks (particularly if the illegals have false documentation). What is your source? Right-wing sites that object to the hiring of illegals, just as Coulter does. Tyson Foods and Swift and Co., however, have been in the news recently as targets of massive government raids at their meat-packing plants, where hundreds of purported illegals were arrested. These were people doing the actual packing. I understand that Wal-Mart stores were also raided. Apparently their cleaning and maintenance contractors were hiring illegals with Wal-Mart's full knowledge and approval. The government sued, and Wal-Mart settled. When the company knows its contractors are hiring illegals, it erases any ethical distinction between the contractor and the company.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. Has to be- that is the unethical corporate lovin' agenda of Bush. That is his culture and his peer group. His heart is not big enough to embrace all the people of the USA. Few Presidents have had that capability, and he has realized that to coddle his peer group brings him power. That is why he pushes an agenda that brings the corporations money, like war, and amnesty. The Congress is now sold out as well. There are no longer democratic values and republican values- only favor the money hogs vs. favor all of the people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This is equally true of the POV-3 Eclectic and the POV-2 Fundamentalist. The only difference is, the POV-3 Eclectic is no longer denying these qualities, so they are much less toxic and damaging to the nervous system then they were in POV-2. Denial is tamas (POV-2 Fundamentalism); acting out is rajas (POV-3 Eclecticism); unconditional clarity/truth is sattva (POV-4 Love)... lather, rinse, repeat? :-) Lather, rinse, repeat- using, and then eliminating the sham poo! lol! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When reading the following passage from Swami Muktananda's Satsang with Baba, Volume III (August 18, 1972, page 122), I thought that it was another explanation of the mechanics of stress release; that is, that the thoughts we have during meditation are indications of stress being released on the physical level: According to the seers of the yogic scriptures, countless impressions of past lives are embedded in the central nadi, sushumna. After Kundalini becomes awake, these impressions start rising to the surface. You should be aware that they are coming to the surface to be ejected from the system. If you are aware of this truth, you will find it entirely pointless to be concerned or overwhelmed by the feelings that come to the conscious surface. Very nice; many thanks, Shemp! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: snip This is equally true of the POV-3 Eclectic and the POV-2 Fundamentalist. The only difference is, the POV-3 Eclectic is no longer denying these qualities, so they are much less toxic and damaging to the nervous system then they were in POV-2. Denial is tamas (POV-2 Fundamentalism); acting out is rajas (POV-3 Eclecticism); unconditional clarity/truth is sattva (POV-4 Love)... lather, rinse, repeat? :-) Lather, rinse, repeat- using, and then eliminating the sham poo! lol! :-) Ahhh -- so *that* was the punch line Thanks, 1008 Sri Sri Sri Jim- ji Maharaj! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
---Yea...Swami Muktananda - it appears from available evidence that he was quite adept at molesting underage Daughters of his disciples. Looks like a mismatch between speech and action! He initiated me into Shaktipat in 1980. (dug his fingers into my eyeballs and a brilliant image of himself appeared in my visual field). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: When reading the following passage from Swami Muktananda's Satsang with Baba, Volume III (August 18, 1972, page 122), I thought that it was another explanation of the mechanics of stress release; that is, that the thoughts we have during meditation are indications of stress being released on the physical level: According to the seers of the yogic scriptures, countless impressions of past lives are embedded in the central nadi, sushumna. After Kundalini becomes awake, these impressions start rising to the surface. You should be aware that they are coming to the surface to be ejected from the system. If you are aware of this truth, you will find it entirely pointless to be concerned or overwhelmed by the feelings that come to the conscious surface. Very nice; many thanks, Shemp! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. When you write all hire illegals, do they do it through sub- contractors (or contractors) or directly themselves? If through contractors or sub-contractors, then it is not them that is hiring them but the contractors or sub-contractors. If it is through themselves, it may happen only because all of the above companies each have 1,000s of employees and it can happen that a few fall through the cracks (particularly if the illegals have false documentation). What is your source? Right-wing sites that object to the hiring of illegals, just as Coulter does. Tyson Foods and Swift and Co., however, have been in the news recently as targets of massive government raids at their meat-packing plants, where hundreds of purported illegals were arrested. These were people doing the actual packing. I understand that Wal-Mart stores were also raided. Apparently their cleaning and maintenance contractors were hiring illegals with Wal-Mart's full knowledge and approval. The government sued, and Wal-Mart settled. When the company knows its contractors are hiring illegals, it erases any ethical distinction between the contractor and the company. Just as I thought. Not much of anything.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. Has to be- that is the unethical corporate lovin' agenda of Bush. That is his culture and his peer group. His heart is not big enough to embrace all the people of the USA. Few Presidents have had that capability, and he has realized that to coddle his peer group brings him power. That is why he pushes an agenda that brings the corporations money, like war, and amnesty. The Congress is now sold out as well. There are no longer democratic values and republican values- only favor the money hogs vs. favor all of the people. Cute little commentary...but it wasn't true in the first place. Hey you're pretty cute too! lol! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: A different explanation of stress release
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Yea...Swami Muktananda - it appears from available evidence that he was quite adept at molesting underage Daughters of his disciples. Yes, so I've heard. Still a nice insight, and I appreciate Shemp's posting it. Looks like a mismatch between speech and action! Yes, that might really bother me if I were expecting any particular action/speech from him :-) He initiated me into Shaktipat in 1980. (dug his fingers into my eyeballs and a brilliant image of himself appeared in my visual field). Interesting! Were you a steady TM-er at the time? If so, how did you justify straying? Among many other Master-flavors, I used to channel his shaktipat-energies in 1982 or so. BAM! Very dynamic, but I quit tuning into his channel when I found my heart was feeling pained and strained afterward from the excess voltage running through it :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: snip This is equally true of the POV-3 Eclectic and the POV-2 Fundamentalist. The only difference is, the POV-3 Eclectic is no longer denying these qualities, so they are much less toxic and damaging to the nervous system then they were in POV-2. Denial is tamas (POV-2 Fundamentalism); acting out is rajas (POV-3 Eclecticism); unconditional clarity/truth is sattva (POV-4 Love)... lather, rinse, repeat? :-) Lather, rinse, repeat- using, and then eliminating the sham poo! lol! :-) Ahhh -- so *that* was the punch line Thanks, 1008 Sri Sri Sri Jim- ji Maharaj! :-) Slathering everything with maya nays I see! Rory-ji! Sri Sri Sri Nama Rori-ji! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. Has to be- that is the unethical corporate lovin' agenda of Bush. That is his culture and his peer group. His heart is not big enough to embrace all the people of the USA. Few Presidents have had that capability, and he has realized that to coddle his peer group brings him power. That is why he pushes an agenda that brings the corporations money, like war, and amnesty. The Congress is now sold out as well. There are no longer democratic values and republican values- only favor the money hogs vs. favor all of the people. Cute little commentary...but it wasn't true in the first place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slathering everything with maya nays I see! Rory-ji! Sri Sri Sri Nama Rori-ji! :-) Slathering back on my self, I see Rory again and again. lurk
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slathering everything with maya nays I see! Rory-ji! Sri Sri Sri Nama Rori-ji! :-) Too many puns! Ahh well, soemtime I'll ketchup, and in the meantime I'll relax, pick a lily, and relish yours :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. Has to be- that is the unethical corporate lovin' agenda of Bush. That is his culture and his peer group. His heart is not big enough to embrace all the people of the USA. Few Presidents have had that capability, and he has realized that to coddle his peer group brings him power. That is why he pushes an agenda that brings the corporations money, like war, and amnesty. The Congress is now sold out as well. There are no longer democratic values and republican values- only favor the money hogs vs. favor all of the people. Yes, he wants to run the country like a big corporation. I don't know about you but I don't like working in big corporations so I guess I'll get fired a lot for insubordination. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ann Coulter on illegal immigrants
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip The only time so-called big business has ever been caught hiring illegals is through sub-contractors, who do the direct hiring of illegals. Tyson Foods Miller Brewing Honeywell Home Depot Ford Wells Fargo Bank Hormel IHOP Swift and Co. All hire illegals. When you write all hire illegals, do they do it through sub- contractors (or contractors) or directly themselves? If through contractors or sub-contractors, then it is not them that is hiring them but the contractors or sub-contractors. If it is through themselves, it may happen only because all of the above companies each have 1,000s of employees and it can happen that a few fall through the cracks (particularly if the illegals have false documentation). What is your source? Right-wing sites that object to the hiring of illegals, just as Coulter does. Tyson Foods and Swift and Co., however, have been in the news recently as targets of massive government raids at their meat-packing plants, where hundreds of purported illegals were arrested. These were people doing the actual packing. I understand that Wal-Mart stores were also raided. Apparently their cleaning and maintenance contractors were hiring illegals with Wal-Mart's full knowledge and approval. The government sued, and Wal-Mart settled. When the company knows its contractors are hiring illegals, it erases any ethical distinction between the contractor and the company. Just as I thought. Not much of anything. Nono, Shemp, these are people who are on your side, just like Ann Coulter and the other folks you quote here. *They're* saying these companies are guilty of hiring illegals. They wouldn't lie to you, now, would they?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Judy: Fine. But my point was that Curtis didn't address the plausibility of the scenario. Instead, he bashed the guy for purportedly attacking Rick on the basis of no evidence, after having decided--on the basis of no evidence--that the guy wasn't telling the truth when he said he was just speculating. Me: You missed my point completely. I wasn't commenting on his truth telling, I was disagreeing with him and his personal attack on Rick instead of dealing with issues Rick has raised. You didn't understand any of my previous response did you? Your point does not matter. The speculation point is your own weird fixation that completely missed the point of the conversation. Judy: I was making a meta observation about *Curtis's* post, not addressing the validity or lack thereof of the guy's analysis. ME: Yes you were trying hard to find something wrong with what I said so you had to focus on an irrelevant point. I have a pretty good idea why you are so invested in defending a person who makes personal psychobabble comments about a person personally instead of talking about the intellectual points raised...ad hominem arguments are not valid. Is that clear enough? Judy: In my experience, Curtis tends to get all hoity-toity about folks not sticking to the evidence while he often does exactly the same thing he's criticizing. ME: Yes Judy I am both hoity and toity. Your point about evidence is, as I already pointed out, irrelevant since I was using his own words as the basis for my opinions. He was the one who suggested that even though Rick didn't seem to express his list of negative emotions he still had them. You are the one who is making a big deal about evidence, my point was about personal attacks instead of discussing ideas. You missed my points completely in your weird focus on an irrelevant point. The most interesting thing for me from this exchange with you is what you have chosen to focus on in an otherwise interesting discussion. Once again you have missed the main points of the discussion while you pursue your own inexplicable agenda. Good luck with that. I'll let Rick respond if he chooses to your parting shot. But I will say that you are wrong about him and you are wrong about me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: **snip** Try this as an exercise: Assume for the sake of argument that he *is* sincere that he is just speculating, and that he's saying *if* it's the case that Rick's disappointment and doubt has led to anger and frustration, Rick might well manifest those emotions by apparently rationally questioning MMY's character. In other words, is that a plausible psychological scenario? (Not even necessarily for Rick but for people in general.) **snip to end** Judy, when I read the point in the guy's argument or speculation about Rick essentially (or possibly) 'masking' his true agenda of anger and frustration under a pretense of openess and objectivity, it really made me question if I really knew anyone who ever did that. Fine. But my point was that Curtis didn't address the plausibility of the scenario. Instead, he bashed the guy for purportedly attacking Rick on the basis of no evidence, after having decided--on the basis of no evidence--that the guy wasn't telling the truth when he said he was just speculating. I was making a meta observation about *Curtis's* post, not addressing the validity or lack thereof of the guy's analysis. In my experience, Curtis tends to get all hoity-toity about folks not sticking to the evidence while he often does exactly the same thing he's criticizing. I mean, I do know some people who attempt to project themselves in a favorable light when it is obvious that they are not (or not to the same degree, at least); but I don't know how anyone who could pull off 'objectivty' and 'openness' on any long term basis as a cover. You could pretend to be open and honest for the short term, but the longer you keep up the pretense it would seem to skew the person's peformance towards 'openness and honesty'. It didn't seem to me to be a plausible psychological scenario for anyone. And it doesn't sound plausible for Rick. (Not that 'that' was your point, I understand.) Actually, it occurred to me this afternoon that Rick's open and objective and honest behavior looks very different when one has managed to get on his bad side (speaking from personal experience). So although this wasn't my point to Curtis, I'm beginning to think the guy's analysis may have been on target.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Slathering everything with maya nays I see! Rory-ji! Sri Sri Sri Nama Rori-ji! :-) Slathering back on my self, I see Rory again and again. lurk H, perhaps a good therapist could help? :-)
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:06 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash I'll let Rick respond if he chooses to your parting shot. But I will say that you are wrong about him and you are wrong about me. I'd be happy to. What was her parting shot?
[FairfieldLife] Women are more physically abusive than men are
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy: Fine. But my point was that Curtis didn't address the plausibility of the scenario. Instead, he bashed the guy for purportedly attacking Rick on the basis of no evidence, after having decided--on the basis of no evidence--that the guy wasn't telling the truth when he said he was just speculating. Me: You missed my point completely. No, Curtis, sorry. Your point was obvious. I was making a different point. I wasn't commenting on his truth telling, I was disagreeing with him and his personal attack on Rick instead of dealing with issues Rick has raised. Yes, Curtis, I know that's what you were doing. But the only way you could do that was to claim he wasn't telling the truth when he said he was speculating. You didn't understand any of my previous response did you? Yes, Curtis. Sorry, your points were obvious. I was making a different point. Your point does not matter. The speculation point is your own weird fixation that completely missed the point of the conversation. No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. You just don't want to deal with it. Judy: I was making a meta observation about *Curtis's* post, not addressing the validity or lack thereof of the guy's analysis. ME: Yes you were trying hard to find something wrong with what I said so you had to focus on an irrelevant point. I have a pretty good idea why you are so invested in defending a person who makes personal psychobabble comments about a person personally instead of talking about the intellectual points raised...ad hominem arguments are not valid. Is that clear enough? (Says Curtis, indulging in ad hominem.) No, I wasn't defending the guy in my posts about your post. I pointed that out explicitly. I was criticizing you. Judy: In my experience, Curtis tends to get all hoity-toity about folks not sticking to the evidence while he often does exactly the same thing he's criticizing. ME: Yes Judy I am both hoity and toity. Your point about evidence is, as I already pointed out, irrelevant since I was using his own words as the basis for my opinions. It was directly relevant to *my* point. You claimed he was just spinning when he said he was speculating. But you had no evidence for that. Your whole analysis was based on the notion that he was attacking Rick, saying that this *was so* about Rick. He said explicitly that he *didn't know* if it was so. He was the one who suggested that even though Rick didn't seem to express his list of negative emotions he still had them. You are the one who is making a big deal about evidence, my point was about personal attacks instead of discussing ideas. You missed my points completely in your weird focus on an irrelevant point. No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. The most interesting thing for me from this exchange with you is what you have chosen to focus on in an otherwise interesting discussion. Once again you have missed the main points of the discussion No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. while you pursue your own inexplicable agenda. Good luck with that. Not at all inexplicable. I've explained it at least three times now. It's also a point I've made before. You just don't want to deal with it.
[FairfieldLife] Overposting?
I'm seeing 38 posts for Judy and 37 for Shemp, and we've got one day to go. Yahoo has been sending some duplicate emails, so if you're certain of a more accurate count, you may be within the limit, but you must be getting close. Rick Archer President SearchSummit http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=1108+S.+B+St.csz=Fairfield% 2C+IA+52556-3805country=us 1108 S. B St. Fairfield, IA 52556-3805 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: fax: Skype ID: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signatureTo=641-472-9336Email=r [EMAIL PROTECTED] 641-472-9336 914-470-9336 Rick_Archer https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=25769982909v0=356483k0=1251699766v1=35648 4k1=804482755src=client_sig_212_1_card_joininvite=1 Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig Want a signature like this? image001.gif
[FairfieldLife] Re: Somewhere in the Akash
Well, I know I will get bashed for this, but this whole discussion is a clearcut example of a stupid discussion, a seriously stupid discussion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: Fine. But my point was that Curtis didn't address the plausibility of the scenario. Instead, he bashed the guy for purportedly attacking Rick on the basis of no evidence, after having decided--on the basis of no evidence--that the guy wasn't telling the truth when he said he was just speculating. Me: You missed my point completely. No, Curtis, sorry. Your point was obvious. I was making a different point. I wasn't commenting on his truth telling, I was disagreeing with him and his personal attack on Rick instead of dealing with issues Rick has raised. Yes, Curtis, I know that's what you were doing. But the only way you could do that was to claim he wasn't telling the truth when he said he was speculating. You didn't understand any of my previous response did you? Yes, Curtis. Sorry, your points were obvious. I was making a different point. Your point does not matter. The speculation point is your own weird fixation that completely missed the point of the conversation. No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. You just don't want to deal with it. Judy: I was making a meta observation about *Curtis's* post, not addressing the validity or lack thereof of the guy's analysis. ME: Yes you were trying hard to find something wrong with what I said so you had to focus on an irrelevant point. I have a pretty good idea why you are so invested in defending a person who makes personal psychobabble comments about a person personally instead of talking about the intellectual points raised...ad hominem arguments are not valid. Is that clear enough? (Says Curtis, indulging in ad hominem.) No, I wasn't defending the guy in my posts about your post. I pointed that out explicitly. I was criticizing you. Judy: In my experience, Curtis tends to get all hoity-toity about folks not sticking to the evidence while he often does exactly the same thing he's criticizing. ME: Yes Judy I am both hoity and toity. Your point about evidence is, as I already pointed out, irrelevant since I was using his own words as the basis for my opinions. It was directly relevant to *my* point. You claimed he was just spinning when he said he was speculating. But you had no evidence for that. Your whole analysis was based on the notion that he was attacking Rick, saying that this *was so* about Rick. He said explicitly that he *didn't know* if it was so. He was the one who suggested that even though Rick didn't seem to express his list of negative emotions he still had them. You are the one who is making a big deal about evidence, my point was about personal attacks instead of discussing ideas. You missed my points completely in your weird focus on an irrelevant point. No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. The most interesting thing for me from this exchange with you is what you have chosen to focus on in an otherwise interesting discussion. Once again you have missed the main points of the discussion No, Curtis, sorry. Your points were obvious. I was making a different point. while you pursue your own inexplicable agenda. Good luck with that. Not at all inexplicable. I've explained it at least three times now. It's also a point I've made before. You just don't want to deal with it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Overposting?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm seeing 38 posts for Judy and 37 for Shemp, Yeah, but I get extra. I'm invoking affirmative action for myself. and we've got one day to go. Yahoo has been sending some duplicate emails, so if you're certain of a more accurate count, you may be within the limit, but you must be getting close. Rick Archer President SearchSummit http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py? Pyt=Tmapaddr=1108+S.+B+St.csz=Fairfield% 2C+IA+52556-3805country=us 1108 S. B St. Fairfield, IA 52556-3805 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: fax: Skype ID: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signatureTo=641-472- 9336Email=r [EMAIL PROTECTED] 641-472-9336 914-470-9336 Rick_Archer https://www.plaxo.com/add_me? u=25769982909v0=356483k0=1251699766v1=35648 4k1=804482755src=client_sig_212_1_card_joininvite=1 Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig Want a signature like this?
