[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Practice Groups of FF
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: There is nothing wrong with choosing your favorite delicacy from the smorgasbord, but once you have chosen, eat what is on your plate. Dilettantes sample endlessly, are never satisfied and end up confused with whom to go home with after the party. The shills hype the purveyor's soup and both cash in. Meanwhile, your date for the dance, the prettiest of all the girls, (you lucky dog) was voted queen of the ball and stupid you, enchanted by all the other girls, danced like and fool with all but her. Eventually the music stopped, now weary of dancing and too old to care, you gently fade unnoticed into the wall of regret, a wilted flower denied of fragrance, too late to recover the magic. Absolutely schmaltzy absolutist, raunchydog Beautiful, thank you !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: Mind you, I assert that I belong to the cult of TM. No matter what my reasons for visiting a whorehouse, if I were to visit one, I should consider myself a john and there ain't two ways about it. I could not agree more. I freely admit that my participation in both the TMO and later the Rama trip was me being involved in a cult. I got a lot *from* my involvement in each of the cults, thank you. snip I watched the tapes. I got to see Maharishi several times. I saw him at Taste of Utopia. Unless he was a psycopath and my third ear was successfully being lied to, I think that Maharishi really did believe in all the Maharishi brand shit he was churning out. Again, I agree. Maharishi was by far the most superstitious person I've ever met on planet Earth. I have no doubt that he believed fer- vently in each of these superstitions that he trademarked with his name and sold to suckers. I was actually there when he walked into the room at Squaw Valley and saw chairs upside down on the tables. (There is some kind of super- stition in India about that being a bad omen.) He *blanched* and got this expression of terror on his face, stopped dead in his tracks, and turned back and went back the other way, and refused to enter the room until things had been put right. Does that indicate that he *believed* in the superstition? You betcha. Does that suggest that the belief is rational? Not in my book. Does that suggest that the person reacting that way, with such fear, was enlightened? Again, not in my book. I don't think he ever turned back, ever looked in the mirror and asked himself what the fuck am I doing? I agree. In my estimation he lacked the *ability* to self-reflect. He just did shit, and assumed that it was correct and in tune with the laws of nature because he did it. And he assumed that because he'd been told that's the way things work by the people who taught him his Hindu beliefs. I doubt that he *ever* second-guessed anything he ever did. I think he really believed all the crap. That he believed it till the very last day I got to see him live from Vlodrup. So do I. But I don't think that's the reason he started *selling* the crap. He did that because he had priced TM out of the market and there was not enough income coming in to support the movement from teaching, because people were starting to leave the TM movement and he had to come up with something new to keep them around and interested, *AND* because he thought that these things would be good for them. I'm *certain* that he thought that all these silly products would be good for people. After all, they came from the Vedas, right? So *by definition* they were good, the way he thought. Maharishi was, as Vaj has suggested, a Hindu Fundamentalist. He believed that all these products and services came straight from the mouth of God, and thus needed to be made available to the people of the world. For a profit, of course. But *at the same time*, he wasn't dumb. He saw what happened to the TMO's economic bottom line as soon as he promised people that they'd be able to levitate. (And he really *DID* promise people that they'd be able to levitate, at the beginning of the Siddhis courses. It was only afterwards, after some buyers made noises about suing, that he and the TMO back- pedalled and began to claim that the course taught only Stage I flying.) He used these courses to pay the bills until the pool of suckers was expended, and everyone who was probably *going* to take the Siddhis course had. Then he introduced the next profit cow product. And then the next. And then the next. Did he *believe* that all of these things were valuable? Well, duh...he was a Fundamentalist...of course he believed they were. But my bottom line argument is that one of the *other* reasons he introduced all of these spiritual distrac- tions was as a kind of magician's misdirection, to keep the audience from noticing that not only had *they* not realized the enlightenment he'd originally promised them, but that NO ONE had. NO ONE. FIFTY YEARS after he started teaching TM and promising it as the fastest, most effective method for realizing enlightenment, there is not a single person that the TMO can point to and say, This person is enlightened. This person is an example of what we have been prom- ising as enlightenment. You can take this person to your labs and hook them up to machines and use them as the definitive example of what enlightenment is. NOT ONE. But the distraction products are still there, and they keep selling. To those who have conveniently forgotten the original promise, that is. In my view, Maharishi was a tinkerer, an experimenter. He just tried shit to see if it would work. Those who were on the early Siddhis courses know that there were quite a few siddhis taught to them that never appeared in the final version of the course taught
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the Jyotish Test
Since it appears that JohnR is not going to respond to my challenge with his analysis of my friend's medical condition as indicated in her Jyotish chart Barry posted this only a little over 24 hours since he first proposed the test. And he said he'd wait until 7:00 p.m. EST to post the answer. For all he knew, John was busy working on it, planning to post his results by Barry's original deadline. He's out for revenge right now and is proposing another test. Why would anyone want to participate in such a setup? JohnR refuses to let this drop. OK, his call. See below. By the way, go back and look at the original post. I said quite clearly that the deadline for submissions to the test was 7:00 pm *my* time, 12:00 Noon Fairfield time. I'll wait for the apology. Now here's the post I wrote in response to JohnR's previous rant, but which I promised myself not to post unless he continued with this crap. Some people just don't know when they've embarrassed themselves enough. So be it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: Hey, RaunchD Barry has just confirmed in more explicit words what he thought of my comment to do.reflex in his private email to me. John, My email to you was not just sent, it was sent Thursday, in an attempt to 1) not waste a post on you, and 2) spare you airing your lack of courage and principles in public. You have chosen to make it public. So be it. This message will end my participation in this exchange with you unless you are fool- ish enough to prolong it. I was rather surprised that he reacted with such venom in his last post. It is revealing as to how much his animosity can reach when anyone mentions anything about vedic sciences or any gurus from that tradition. This is the They aren't really criticizing me, they are criticizing my beliefs...what they really hate is what I believe in argument that True Believers trot out over and over. Please note that this is a typical and well- documented cult tactic used to make a criticism of a *particular individual* seem as if it's really a criticism of the group the cultist is attempting to appeal to and gain sympathy from. So allow me to clarify -- I am NOT criticizing the Vedas by calling you a low-life scumbag. I am calling YOU in particular a low-life scumbag because of YOUR behavior. Please also notice that what you fail to address in any way IS that behavior -- your recent attempt to claim that you knew the answer to my test, even though you failed to post such an answer to the group. I stand by what I said in my reply to do.rflex. First, I consider you *personally* a low-life scumbag for attempting to claim that you knew the answer to a test that you were unwilling to take in public, where the accuracy of your answer could have been verified by readers of this forum. Next, I suggest that you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that 1) your *own* faith in Jyotish is so shaky that you are afraid to put it to the test, 2) that you are seemingly willing to make unsubstantiated claims about what you knew after the fact in an attempt to hide your cowardice, and 3) that you are now resorting to classic cult manipulation techniques to pretend that I'm criticizing vedic science and not you. John, all you had to do to make your cowardice less obvious was shut the fuck up and live with it. Instead, you decided to compound it by pull- ing this stunt. THAT is what makes you a low-life scumbag in my book. Me saying this about you *personally* has nothing to do with my opinion of Jyotish or the so-called vedic sciences. However, if you are presenting yourself as a representative of these vedic sciences and as an example of what studying them produces, then I suggest that the quality of the fruit reveals a lot about the tree.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The dogma gets in my way on a number of points, but I sure appreciate Christianity a whole lot more than I did pre-TM. I've lived most of my life without a religious practice, except for brief attempts to get into it to see what it was like, so I don't really feel a lack in that department. But it wouldn't surprise me a bit if I began to be drawn to it, and I'd welcome it. I could really dig a Christian congregation led by a minister who practiced TM and preached the Gospel according to SCI. Tom Miller, a long time TM teacher, was my first SCI teacher in 1972 in Grosse Pointe, Michigan. He became a priest for the Liberal Catholic Church and established St. Gabriel and All Angels in Fairfield about 20 years ago http://tinyurl.com/7ukvrt I go through phases of attending regularly and enjoy the long liturgy, and short sermon in the light of SCI. The congregation, mostly TM'ers, is small but packed on Christmas Eve and Easter. Even those who profess no religion, end up asking Tom to marry and bury loved ones. In times of need, who do you call? The Big Guy in the Sky. Church feels like family and I'm grateful for Tom's commitment to serving our community. I think this is an important addition to a Siddha and meditator's life, without the moral and ethical teachings of Religion most meditators are left without outer guidance and proper spiritual orientation. The guidance Religion gives is very necessary for most sincere people, to think that TM alone is just going to bestow these virtues (what the tmorg suggests) is folly IMO. People need inner and outer guidance, since TM is not being taught as a Religion a vast number of meditators are living life without this benefit, sad!
[FairfieldLife] Obama: Great Healer?
According to a Finnish astrologer, Mr. Seppo Tanhua (and prolly many others, too) Obama might become a/the? Great Healer of da World, because he has Chiron near Ascendant (in Pisces) trine Neptune (in Scorpio). [Obaman askendentilta löytyvä Chiron (haavoittunut parantaja) tekee tästä miehestä parhaassa tapauksessa suuren maailman parantajan, joskin hyvin vaativissa olosuhteissa. Chiron tekee Obaman askendentilta kolmiota Neptunukselle, jonka voimme lukea kyvyksi tehdä intuitiivisesti oikeita ratkaisuja tiukoissa tilanteissa.] :]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
---thx (below...interesting!). btw: pics of new Peace Palaces... http://www.blproperties.net/home/ In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of authfriend Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:39 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip I could not help but notice at the time that I walked away from TM that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAD EVER BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE TMO AS ENLIGHTENED. NOT ONE. guffaw I could not help but notice... Moi, I started TM in 1975 and never heard any promise of enlightenment in five to eight years. My initiator did mention a five-year period in response to a question during three days' checking, but the way he told it, five years was the *fastest* one could expect to get enlightened. He made it very clear that it was highly individual and could take a lot longer. I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
-Original Message- From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Archer Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:18 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator. I should add that there are many stages or degrees of awakening, and people, and the followers they attract, often mistake initial or intermediate stages with final ones (if there are any). (see Halfway up the Mountain - The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, by Mariana Caplan - http://tinyurl.com/6tyssk). Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: -Original Message- From: On Behalf Of Rick Archer I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator. Rick, I have no problem with this. My point was, and I consider the point valid, there is NOT ONE PERSON whom the *TM movement* can point to and say, This person is enlightened. We 'certify' that this person is enlightened, and because we believe in validating what we say with science, you can take this person to the labs and test them as an *example* of enlightenment. I should add that there are many stages or degrees of awakening, and people, and the followers they attract, often mistake initial or intermediate stages with final ones (if there are any). (see Halfway up the Mountain - The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, by Mariana Caplan - http://tinyurl.com/6tyssk). Again, I have no problem with this, in TM, or in any other movement that claims to have a path to enlightenment. Hell, *I* experienced periods of awakening during my TM days that I mistook for enlightenment; if that can happen to *me*, whom many here go out of their way to characterize as being lower than the lint in an earthworm's navel, it can happen to anyone. :-) But my point is that the *TM organization* does not have even ONE person to whom they can point and say, WE certify that this person has achieved the goal we are selling. NOT ONE. And this in an organization that makes a pretense of scientific validation of its claims. Doncha think that if they had one -- even ONE -- that they'd *rush* them to the labs for testing? Doncha think they'd try to get them on Leno? Fifty years. Not ONE graduate of the course. Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. I completely agree. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase... I would go so far as to say that there were *two* cases in the TMO of someone claiming enlightenment who were egotistical nutcases. Hint: the second one founded the organization. :-) ...so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing to find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. While I do not dispute that this may be true, and I am open to the possibility that some have achieved some degree of realization as a result of TM (again, if I did, *anyone* can), my point is not *about* what may or may not have happened off the record. My point is that the organization that has claimed for fifty years that it offers the fastest, most effective method of realizing enlightenment cannot produce even ONE on the record example of anyone having done it. NOT ONE. Fifty YEARS, man. If TM is the fastest and most effective method, it's not very fast OR effective now, is it? :-) My sub-point is that all of the *other* products offered to supplement TM are offered to distract attention from this obvious reality. If the TM organization could sell enlightenment by providing an example of it, doncha think they would? But they can't. So they sell overpriced honey instead...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
I'm more or a feel person than a dogma person. It's why I like LLC. It has esoteric roots and leaves a lot of room for intellectual curiosity. We all fall short of being the best person we can, able to live harmoniously with others and embrace every moment joyously. So for me LLC is like one big puja that recharges my love battery. It's an immersion in the source of one's Self where you don't feel the THOU SHALT NOTS like a sword hanging over your head threatening to strike you dead and damn you to Hell if you don't behave yourself, I feel the love and that's all that matters. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: I think this is an important addition to a Siddha and meditator's life, without the moral and ethical teachings of Religion most meditators are left without outer guidance and proper spiritual orientation. The guidance Religion gives is very necessary for most sincere people, to think that TM alone is just going to bestow these virtues (what the tmorg suggests) is folly IMO. People need inner and outer guidance, since TM is not being taught as a Religion a vast number of meditators are living life without this benefit, sad!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
NOT ONE! Areed Turq, the TMO has not produced one enlightened personaccording to the powers that be conception of enlightenment. And there's the catch. There has been such an investment in the idea of enlightenment rather than the actual direct realization, that any criteria are in the realm of personality, rather than the transcendent apperception of consciousness conscious of its own consciousness. Personalities are all over the friggin' place and have essentially nothing to do with Realization. To quote SCI Lesson #874692762875, The infinite value is present at every moment in the point value. Also, why would someone who was realized have anything to do with the TMO? As Rick pointed out, leaving the TMO and enlightenment seem to be concomitant phenomena. An organization driven by personality/ego is necessarily insane. When consciousness becomes conscious of consciousness (CBCC-new term for enlightenment!) a sweet breeze blows through the room and all personality/ego driven thought, feeling and behavior is seen clearly as madness in that context-less context. --- On Sat, 1/3/09, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 9:12 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: -Original Message- From: On Behalf Of Rick Archer I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator. Rick, I have no problem with this. My point was, and I consider the point valid, there is NOT ONE PERSON whom the *TM movement* can point to and say, This person is enlightened. We 'certify' that this person is enlightened, and because we believe in validating what we say with science, you can take this person to the labs and test them as an *example* of enlightenment. I should add that there are many stages or degrees of awakening, and people, and the followers they attract, often mistake initial or intermediate stages with final ones (if there are any). (see Halfway up the Mountain - The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, by Mariana Caplan - http://tinyurl.com/6tyssk). Again, I have no problem with this, in TM, or in any other movement that claims to have a path to enlightenment. Hell, *I* experienced periods of awakening during my TM days that I mistook for enlightenment; if that can happen to *me*, whom many here go out of their way to characterize as being lower than the lint in an earthworm's navel, it can happen to anyone. :-) But my point is that the *TM organization* does not have even ONE person to whom they can point and say, WE certify that this person has achieved the goal we are selling. NOT ONE. And this in an organization that makes a pretense of scientific validation of its claims. Doncha think that if they had one -- even ONE -- that they'd *rush* them to the labs for testing? Doncha think they'd try to get them on Leno? Fifty years. Not ONE graduate of the course. Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. I completely agree. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase... I would go so far as to say that there were *two* cases in the TMO of someone claiming enlightenment who were egotistical nutcases. Hint: the second one
[FairfieldLife] Re: Obama: Great Healer?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: According to a Finnish astrologer, Mr. Seppo Tanhua (and prolly many others, too) Obama might become a/the? Great Healer of da World, because he has Chiron near Ascendant (in Pisces) trine Neptune (in Scorpio). [Obaman askendentilta löytyvä Chiron (haavoittunut parantaja) tekee tästä miehestä parhaassa tapauksessa suuren maailman parantajan, joskin hyvin vaativissa olosuhteissa. Chiron tekee Obaman askendentilta kolmiota Neptunukselle, jonka voimme lukea kyvyksi tehdä intuitiivisesti oikeita ratkaisuja tiukoissa tilanteissa.] :] Is this another Magic Negro story or is Obama just a guy we trust to be the best president he can? We don't need to imbue him with special powers to expect he will work selflessly for our country. He has plenty to clean up after Bush, so I'm glad he's bringing the best and the brightness into his administration. We're gonna need it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: This part of Judy and my exchange is interesting. I am doing this not to address the arguments we make but her style, which Judy maintains is one that exposes intellectual sloppiness and dishonesty. Judy, this isn't addressed to you, but to the board. Of course, you are free to respond but don't assume any failure to respond on my part means anything. I said: Anyone good at putting someone in a suggestible state could teach TM. Judy said: Naah, has nothing to do with suggestibility. \ I said: And I say you are wrong. Again, you make a conclusory statement that adds nothing. Judy said: It's you who has a tendency to make such statements. I'm showing you what it feels like to be on the other end. I said: Just by saying something isn't so, doesn't make itnot so. Judy said: Something for you to remember. What is interesting about this exchange is Judy's style of needing to control an argument. She clearly makes a conclusory statement Naah, has nothing to do with suggestibility, and when called on it calls me conclusory. Then she is the one who purports to be the one intolerant of intellectual sloppiness and dishonesty. Back to the conversaition: I said: People who are familiar with hypnotism would know that the initiation and checking procedures are methods to put people in a suggestible state. Judy said: Yes, I'm aware of that. However, that hypnotists use somewhat methods does not mean that's how they're being used in TM instruction and checking. That's a false equivalence. OK, Judy's statement begs the question: is TM initiation and checking a procedure different than putting people in a suggestible state? Nothing she said in this exchange counters the similarity between the two. Then I went on to say: So what. It isn't like that is a bad thing. Why are Tm'ers so defensive about the effect of checking and initiation? Judy replied: We aren't defensive about the effect of checking and instruction. We do get annoyed when that effect is called suggestion, because it indicates inadequate understanding of TM. Again, she makes a conclusion without arguing why it is an inadequate understanding of TM. First of all, I was not talking about TM the technique, I was talking about initiation and checking procedures. So, what is different? I still don't have an answer from her. Is it the power of the puja, enlivening the mantra? What is the evidence for that? Now back to the discussion: I said: And we disagree as to the extent of the problem. Ex teachers, Curtis, Turq, others, how much of the TTC was devoted to learning to teach? Judy said: Irrelevant (although Patrick, for one, disagrees with you). Again, she declares the conclusion without arguing why it is irrelevant. I believe it is very relevant and the teacher who said he spent all the time learning to teach also said most of the time was spent rounding. How is that learning to teach? No one gives me an explanation for that. I said: How hard is it to teach? Judy said: Not that hard, but it depends on what you mean by teach. Just going through the procedure is easy; the issue is whether the students *get it* right away. Many do, but some don't. Some get it and then lose it, including after many years of practice. OK teachers, how much time did you spend learning to determine if the student has it right? Not much. The procedure for checking is very rigid. If the student gives a yes answer or no answer to various questions, the next step is dictated. Not so hard. Judy said: Everything else that human beings learn to do involves effort and intention. To practice TM, in contrast, involves *not-doing*: no effort, no intention. How do you learn to not-do? It's a contradiction in terms, and just the opposite from the way we approach any other endeavor. Actually there's one other endeavor that involves not-doing, and that's going to sleep. *Trying* to go to sleep is very likely to be ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. That parallel is significant. OK, this has some substance in it that can be discussed and is not mere conclusions. In this case, I still agree, lazy daydreaming involves next to no effort much like mediating involves next to no effort. I believe we have discussed here in the past the effortless issue. There is effort, just not much. Easy effort. You do go back to your mantra after all. I said: No, not dishonest nor clumsy. I just am using your type of techniques to talk to you. You use tricks like claiming non sequitur when something is not so that you can contol the conversation. Judy said: If I did that, it would be dishonest. Yet you claim you're not being dishonest but that you're using my type of techniques. Make up your mind. I don't believe I *do* claim something is a non
[FairfieldLife] Re: Obama: Great Healer?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: According to a Finnish astrologer, Mr. Seppo Tanhua (and prolly many others, too) Obama might become a/the? Great Healer of da World, because he has Chiron near Ascendant (in Pisces) trine Neptune (in Scorpio). [Obaman askendentilta löytyvä Chiron (haavoittunut parantaja) tekee tästä miehestä parhaassa tapauksessa suuren maailman parantajan, joskin hyvin vaativissa olosuhteissa. Chiron tekee Obaman askendentilta kolmiota Neptunukselle, jonka voimme lukea kyvyksi tehdä intuitiivisesti oikeita ratkaisuja tiukoissa tilanteissa.] :] http://tinyurl.com/5eelf9
[FairfieldLife] Re: Obama: Great Healer?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: http://tinyurl.com/5eelf9 Best laugh of the day! Thanks Alex.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: We spend many posts here debating the legitimacy of the TM technique, the cult of TM and the scam. But from time to time I find myself relating to ideas that were first introduced to me during the time I was in the movement. [snip] Anyone else have some to share? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Gillam wrote: I've come to dismiss the TM-is-the-only-way rhetoric of Maharishi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Did he ever say that, Patrick? The most effective way for householders is what I've always understood, not the only way. Fair enough, Judy. Thanks for the opportunity to elaborate. There's that famous videotape in which Maharishi explains what he means by the only way. He says TM is the only way to enlightenment in the same sense that flying is the only way to travel. A person could walk from New York to Los Angeles, he says, or drive a car, but a jet is the only way to go. Me and my compatriots on teacher training were heartened by that clever and seemingly modest explanation, for it made our position less absolutist. Of course you can get enlightened via other means! It'll just take longer. As Steven Wright said, everyplace is within walking distance if you have enough time. For purposes of unpacking the TM orthodoxy, though, let's consider two other claims. One - the Prime Directive of Maharishi's Revival - is his statement in his translation of the Bhagavad-Gita that Guru Dev revived vedic knowledge in its purity. Other paths to enlightenment have been corrupted, as knowledge is wont to become over time, but Maharishi's path, because it comes straight from Guru Dev, is pure. That position lay at the core of my pride in being a TM teacher and in most all disputes centered around the TM organization. Related to this position is a cultural phenomenon within the TM organization that I cannot pin to a specific instance, but I'm confident in stating nonetheless. There's a tendency for TM proponents to take enormous pride when some other spiritual teacher says Maharishi's is the Highest Knowledge. I would have to rely on others here to cite a specific instance of some other master paying homage to MMY, but I know I've encountered tales of such encomia. I've heard people say, I spoke with Swami Ooga-Booga when I was in Kerala, and he said Maharishi's is the Highest Knowledge. I would love love love for this statement to be true, for I'd love to have been involved in such a worthy enterprise. But I've done other things for my growth that have delivered as much or more than I've gotten from TM and TM teacher training and the TM-Sidhi program, so I've come to temper my attachment to the notion that TM is the Only Way. Also, as has been discussed around here in depth, that cultural position leads to a fair amount of dysfunction. Stein again: Except for that-- Gillam again: , but nothing I've encountered in the last 30 years has disturbed my acceptance of the vedic worldview he presented. Science of Creative Intelligence correlates are everywhere. Consciousness is primary and matter is secondary. Creation is structured in layers, from gross to subtle. Awareness becomes aware of itself, bifurcates into the knower and the known, loses awareness of itself, and returns to know itself anew. The whole megillah makes perfect sense to me, and dovetails with everything else I encounter, from physics to the three act structure of a story to A Course In Miracles. Stein again: --what you say is the same for me. I should add that this does *not* include much of what he said that didn't have to do with the nature and mechanics of consciousness, e.g., political and social type commentary; Amen. and I have some major quibbles about his support-of-nature teaching. But I'm pretty much sold on what you outline above, in that I haven't encountered anything so far that calls it into question. One of the major changes in my thinking as a result of his teaching and my experience with TM has been in how I regard religion and mysticism generally. I used to think that was all complete bunkum; I don't any longer. (I do still think a lot of religious dogma is bunkum, but that's mostly because it's taken literally when it should be understood as metaphor, the referents being, essentially, the principles of SCI, the nature and mechanics of consciousness.) Right. When I started thinking consciousness is the substrate of creation, everything became possible. If I come across as jaded, maybe it's because I've yet to achieve the success I thought would be mine.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
This part of Judy and my exchange is interesting. I am doing this not to address the arguments we make but her style, which Judy maintains is one that exposes intellectual sloppiness and dishonesty. Judy, this isn't addressed to you, but to the board. Of course, you are free to respond but don't assume any failure to respond on my part means anything. I said: Anyone good at putting someone in a suggestible state could teach TM. Judy said: Naah, has nothing to do with suggestibility. \ I said: And I say you are wrong. Again, you make a conclusory statement that adds nothing. Judy said: It's you who has a tendency to make such statements. I'm showing you what it feels like to be on the other end. I said: Just by saying something isn't so, doesn't make itnot so. Judy said: Something for you to remember. What is interesting about this exchange is Judy's style of needing to control an argument. She clearly makes a conclusory statement Naah, has nothing to do with suggestibility, and when called on it calls me conclusory. Then she is the one who purports to be the one intolerant of intellectual sloppiness and dishonesty. Back to the conversaition: I said: People who are familiar with hypnotism would know that the initiation and checking procedures are methods to put people in a suggestible state. Judy said: Yes, I'm aware of that. However, that hypnotists use somewhat methods does not mean that's how they're being used in TM instruction and checking. That's a false equivalence. OK, Judy's statement begs the question: is TM initiation and checking a procedure different than putting people in a suggestible state? Nothing she said in this exchange counters the similarity between the two. Then I went on to say: So what. It isn't like that is a bad thing. Why are Tm'ers so defensive about the effect of checking and initiation? Judy replied: We aren't defensive about the effect of checking and instruction. We do get annoyed when that effect is called suggestion, because it indicates inadequate understanding of TM. Again, she makes a conclusion without arguing why it is an inadequate understanding of TM. First of all, I was not talking about TM the technique, I was talking about initiation and checking procedures. So, what is different? I still don't have an answer from her. Is it the power of the puja, enlivening the mantra? What is the evidence for that? Now back to the discussion: I said: And we disagree as to the extent of the problem. Ex teachers, Curtis, Turq, others, how much of the TTC was devoted to learning to teach? Judy said: Irrelevant (although Patrick, for one, disagrees with you). Again, she declares the conclusion without arguing why it is irrelevant. I believe it is very relevant and the teacher who said he spent all the time learning to teach also said most of the time was spent rounding. How is that learning to teach? No one gives me an explanation for that. Judy maintains that the only reason someone might be afraid of her is if they tend to be intellectually sloppy or dishonest. I have a couple of thoughts on that. This is an internet forum. Many people talk off the cuff. That is the nature of internet conversation. We are not defending dissertations. We don't need someone to police our conversations. If someone wants to be meticulous, they can do so themselves. To harp on others constantly about how they speak gets nasty. Plus, she has her own sloppiness as well. She makes conclusiory statements. She misuses non sequitur when a statement does logically fit in a discussion but she just doesn't want to go that route. She is the master of ad hominem , focusing on the character of the person advancing advancing the argument, seeking to discredit positions by discrediting those who hold them. See, don't I sound nasty when criticizing how Judy argues? That is how she sounds to me when she criticizes how we argue. OK, I am signing off now. I am sure I will need to satisfy my TM curiosity and will be back again after I can follow my own ground rules. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote: Other paths to enlightenment have been corrupted, as knowledge is wont to become over time, but Maharishi's path, because it comes straight from Guru Dev, is pure. Agree with your other comments, but this one does not stand up to the light of day. In TM there is no *Parampara* that is no Guru-disciple lineage as MMY created TM himself, Guru Dev never taught the simple technique called TM, he was a renunciate. See Domash's record regarding the foundations of TM below. MMY broke with that tradition when he taught as a 'Maharishi' and not a *Guru*, MMY never claimed to be a Guru, there is a big difference between a Guru and a simple teacher. TM is Yoga-lite for modernity, and there is nothing wrong with thatIMO. The discovery is of the effects of the Transcendental Meditation technique, whose introduction in 1958 was the work of an Indian scholar and teacher, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. In fact, Maharishi himself claims not to have invented the technique at all, but rather to have revived it. It is clear, however, that he reinvented it; that is to say, he rediscovered and thereby restored the original purity Larry Domash snip
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
Patrick wrote: ...so I've come to temper my attachment to the notion that TM is the Only Way. According to the Marshy, in his lecture at Jones Hall in Houston, it is NOT the 'TM' technique that causes the enlightend state (Promise For the Family of Man); that state is an already existing state of Being, needing no other existent. In that sense, the Transcendent is the 'only way'. There is no other knowledge that is higher than 'Absolute Knowledge'. TM, or any other meditation practice, provides the most ideal opportunity for the transcending. So, it's not TM that causes enlightenment - it's just that TM is the most easily learned technique. so it's the fastest. There must be millions of people that have experienced the Transcendent during their very first TM practice. In contrast, there must be millions of people who are still 'dead sitting' - trying to 'go beyond' using other methods, who have probably never once experienced an enlightened state. So, TM seems to be ideal for most householders, therefore, TM is the 'fastest', for most people. The 'Adwaita' idealistic philosophy does seem to make the most sense as an ideology - all the Upanishadic thinkers after the historical Buddha were transcendentalists. It is very difficult to argue against the idealism of a Shankara, a Vasubandhu, or a Kant, without falling into a dualism or rank materialism. TM practice per se, is the systematic praticum of the idealistic philosopy. Everything else - Vastu, Ayerveda, Jyotish, are all just fertilizer. The root problem is believing that the 'TMO' is 'the only way' to learn a meditation that is transcendental
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
Why this religious thread matters to me: One of the reasons I am not religious is that I notice that geography trumps all else with people's belief in the superiority of their religious perspective. There is too strong an ethnocentric bias for me to take any of them seriously. Maharishi was a perfect example of this. He believed that his precious India had the supreme knowledge and that other religions represented less than the full expression of what he called Natural Law. And isn't it a coincidence that those born in the lands of Allah find all other POVs beneath them and their full revelation from God's messenger Mohammad? And lucky for Tom Cruse that he lived a privileged enough life to be around celebrity Scientologists so he could find the one true way to get clear. And there we were, little aspiring hippies or whatever version of 60's and 70's baby boomer cushiness that we were to have had the luxury of being exposed to Eastern thought through our pop star idols. So we happened to be exposed to Maharishi's teaching, or Guru Maharaji's or Swami Baktividanta's Hari Krishna, and low and behold we too conclude to have found the highest teaching that pulls everyone else's POV together. (but beneath us) I think all religious people should get over themselves to make a better more understanding world. We are all displaced Africans and everywhere humans go they make up some story about how great their particular version of humanity is over others. They have the ONLY way to heaven, or the highest teaching or the whateveritude that makes them believe that they alone have the brass ring of life firmly in their hand, all due to circumstances of their birth more than any other factor. The guy living in a hut in Afghanistan isn't going to become a Scientologist or be able to afford TM courses despite the roving missionaries going around the world telling people how great their version of reality is. So this topic does matter to me profoundly despite my non religious nature today. Because of my non religious nature. I don't believe that believing in Christ gets you eternal life and I don't believe that the alteration of mind brought about from TM makes a person conscious beyond the grave. I see little evidence that practicing TM makes people more than just idealistic and a bit too pleased with themselves for having found IT. So I appreciate continuing this discussion with Judy and others with this as my stated background perspective. I have interspersed my comments into Judy's last email. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: snip A bit. But my point is about Christians today and their relationship with the OKay Dokey presentation of TM as no problem, or conflict with religion. Yeah, that's superficial. But if you can get 'em meditating, they may begin to get at that deeper level where the dogmatic conflicts (which TM does gloss over) dissolve. This is my point. I spent time with the group most predisposed to this POV, recluse Christian monks who did TM. I checked them and they did it right according to Maharishi's instructions. But they didn't feel that this conflict dissolved, it became more vivid that Maharishi did not share their view of spirituality. If Maharishi struck out with this crew, then his attempts at ecumenical perspective on TM is doomed IMO. But as I have said Maharishi was not a true ecumenical dude. He is a Hindu triumphalist. In traditional Christianity, all we have *left* of what Jesus himself taught is the exoteric teachings, and we're not even sure of those. Well that is your take. Fundamentalists are fine with their own version which they believe is complete. Yeah, but there's a pretty solid scholarly consensus on this point. I think we are both right depending on which Christians you talk with. snip Once Christianity became established, all the mystical stuff was cut out. Esoteric practice and experience couldn't be controlled so easily by a hierarchy. The Church wanted salvation to be available only through its own anointed staff, on its terms. It didn't want people going off and having their own exalted experiences via techniques they could perform by themselves. Presuming that these are valid important experiences and not a side track of superstitious humans in altered states. You think the Church in the first centuries after Christ figured that out that it was a sidetrack, huh? It would be delighted to know you buy that. I'm not sure what you mean here. They might have been just as confused about the meaning of their internal states as people today. If Jesus had taught a technique for transcending, it was in the Church's interests to help it get lost, if that didn't happen on its own. I think there is a pretty long tradition of people who are into these states of mind in Christianity. The monastic traditions certainly
[FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote: I've come to dismiss the TM-is-the-only-way rhetoric of Maharishi The our way is the super highway is the most bothersome to me, as there is no indication whatsoever that there is basis for this claim. The second claim of TM that is nearly as bothersome to me is that TM works for everyone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: Why this religious thread matters to me: One of the reasons I am not religious is that I notice that geography trumps all else with people's belief in the superiority of their religious perspective. There is no need for me to post on this forum. Curtis says it all better than I do. I bow to you Curtis!
[FairfieldLife] 'As Moon Wanes/Israelis Wacks'
MSNBC, is reportiing the mourning, that Israel is getting ready to 'Blitzkrieg
Gaza'...
From viewing the pictures in Gaza this morning, one 'Get's the?Feeling', hat
many will git kilt today.
The music in Gaza is 'Hard Metal'...
Israel is planning a massive bombing, to clear all major roads, 'IN GAZA'...
Before the 'Blitz'...
Many are preparing death,
IIn the 'Battle for {['Peace+Holy Land'...
R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Why this religious thread matters to me: One of the reasons I am not religious is that I notice that geography trumps all else with people's belief in the superiority of their religious perspective. There is no need for me to post on this forum. Curtis says it all better than I do. I bow to you Curtis! I am a fan of yours Ruth, please don't stop posting!
[FairfieldLife] Speaking of zombies and the dead walking...
T'would seem that The Dead are touring again. For those who are wondering who could fill in on guitar for Jerry Garcia and don't know Warren Haynes, the guitarist mentioned in the article, he has toured with the Allman Brothers and with Phil Lesh Friends and fits in very nicely indeed, even if he does have the drawback of having all ten fingers. :-) Grateful Dead Alum To Tour LOS ANGELES It looks like the old Dead are gettin' on. Surviving members of the Grateful Dead say they'll regroup for a 19-city tour, their first since 2004, beginning April 12 in Greensboro, N.C. The group, which now just calls itself The Dead, announced its plans Thursday. Original band members Bob Weir, Phil Lesh, Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann have toured sporadically since the 1995 death of guitarist Jerry Garcia, but struggled to get along personally and artistically. They told Rolling Stone in November that they've worked out their differences, aided by a successful October benefit concert in Pennsylvania for then-presidential candidate Barack Obama. Warren Haynes joins the Dead on lead guitar, and Jeff Chimenti will play keyboards.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: We spend many posts here debating the legitimacy of the TM technique, the cult of TM and the scam. But from time to time I find myself relating to ideas that were first introduced to me during the time I was in the movement. [snip] Anyone else have some to share? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Gillam wrote: I've come to dismiss the TM-is-the-only-way rhetoric of Maharishi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Did he ever say that, Patrick? The most effective way for householders is what I've always understood, not the only way. Fair enough, Judy. Thanks for the opportunity to elaborate. There's that famous videotape in which Maharishi explains what he means by the only way. He says TM is the only way to enlightenment in the same sense that flying is the only way to travel. A person could walk from New York to Los Angeles, he says, or drive a car, but a jet is the only way to go. Me and my compatriots on teacher training were heartened by that clever and seemingly modest explanation, for it made our position less absolutist. Of course you can get enlightened via other means! It'll just take longer. As Steven Wright said, everyplace is within walking distance if you have enough time. For purposes of unpacking the TM orthodoxy, though, let's consider two other claims. One - the Prime Directive of Maharishi's Revival - is his statement in his translation of the Bhagavad-Gita that Guru Dev revived vedic knowledge in its purity. Other paths to enlightenment have been corrupted, as knowledge is wont to become over time, but Maharishi's path, because it comes straight from Guru Dev, is pure. That position lay at the core of my pride in being a TM teacher and in most all disputes centered around the TM organization. Related to this position is a cultural phenomenon within the TM organization that I cannot pin to a specific instance, but I'm confident in stating nonetheless. There's a tendency for TM proponents to take enormous pride when some other spiritual teacher says Maharishi's is the Highest Knowledge. I would have to rely on others here to cite a specific instance of some other master paying homage to MMY, but I know I've encountered tales of such encomia. I've heard people say, I spoke with Swami Ooga-Booga when I was in Kerala, and he said Maharishi's is the Highest Knowledge. Every single impressive spiritual teacher, swami, etc. that I've talked to in private about MMY has said that he was DELUDED -started out OK but went way over the edge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: OK, I am signing off now. I am sure I will need to satisfy my TM curiosity and will be back again after I can follow my own ground rules. :) That's always the rule. It was nice to have you around, (even though I haven't been around much)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 3:39 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: Mind you, I assert that I belong to the cult of TM. No matter what my reasons for visiting a whorehouse, if I were to visit one, I should consider myself a john and there ain't two ways about it. I could not agree more. I freely admit that my participation in both the TMO and later the Rama trip was me being involved in a cult. I got a lot *from* my involvement in each of the cults, thank you. I couldn't agree more either. I freely admit that *both* of you were/are brainwashed cult groupies. (tee hee!) :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
On TTC in 1976 we listened to Sama Veda before bedtime. It was soothing and afterward we had some warm milk spiked with cardamon and a couple of melt in your mouth French Butter Cookies http://tinyurl.com/8r256w We were in Biarritz, France for the last 3 months of our 6 month course, the first 3 were in Vitale. The women stayed at Hotel Miramar, Biarritz, a fabulous old building built high above the sea, and nothing like it is today: http://tinyurl.com/8wz52f I was shocked to see that the only thing that remains of the place is the big rock with the hole in it. Anyway, every night, after Sama Veda I'd have my milk and cookies looking into the night at the sea through magnificently tall windows banking one side of a very grand lecture hall. I can never listen to Sama Veda without conjuring up this tender memory and idyllic scene in my head. Rig Veda also an association with a memorable event. It was New Years Eve going into 1980. We were in New Dehli, India. I was on the Vedic Atom (that's another story) and saw MMY almost every evening for about 3 months. Anyway, MMY and the rest of us was about to go into silence for 12 days and we got a good send off to help us keep quiet for a few days. Just before midnight and the traditional puja before silence, MMY had some pundits chant Rig Veda. It was the first time I'd ever heard it. I immediately sat bolt up right, attuned to the moment as if I had become the vibration of the chant as it filled every pore of my being. The Jaimini Sutras are total gobbeldygook if you try to make any sense of them, but letting them wash over you as someone reads them enlivens something that sets off a series of aha experiences I can't explain. No one reads them anymore, sad. On governor training I loved listening to 9th Mandala but not so much the 10th, don't know why. Those were the days someone read the English translation while you enjoyed simple form of awareness. I have never liked the little earphones in the dome chanting 9th and 10th. It has never had the bliss evoking effect of having someone read to me. I guess I'm just high maintenance that way. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal L.Shaddai@ wrote: snip Myself, I long for the days when we used to read the various Vedic chants in bad English translations. I use to really get off on these readings and a cow would be mentioned and I'd see every cow that ever existed and every cow that ever will exist. Flow Soma, flow green tinted Soma. The Sanskrit tapes do nothing for me except irritate me. And I'm quite pitta. Irritate me at your peril. I preferred reading the chants in English as well. I picked the books up again at one point just for the heck of it and was startled at my response to them. It wasn't anything like yours, but reading them (aloud) was exceedingly pleasant, like reading Shakespeare, even though the literary quality of the verse is barely above the level of doggerel. On the other hand, I did once have a *very* peculiar response to listening to the Rig Veda chants in Sanskrit. I don't have the words to describe it, other than to say they became multidimensional, as if I were listening to a full orchestra rather than a couple of old guys grunting. (And that doesn't really describe it; it's just a vague approximation.) It's never happened again, but that one experience I'll never forget. Huh, Vaj says something that sounds as if it may relate to that experience: I believe what M. was referring to are the overtones that can be heard in the Sama Veda tapes. My recollection was there was a type of overtone that was naturally produced, i.e. extra tones that were produced when two or more people sung these together. I may have been hearing overtones in a way that I didn't normally. But if so, it was a veritable *symphony* of overtones, and it was with Rig Veda, not Sama Veda.
[FairfieldLife] 'BrainWave Mind Voyages'
This company sells a CD , called 'Tonal Vibration', That takes you through Alpha, Beta and Delta, Brainwave sycnchonies... http://www.brainwave-entrainment.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: -snip- Every single impressive spiritual teacher, swami, etc. that I've talked to in private about MMY has said that he was DELUDED -started out OK but went way over the edge. there are several here who do not practice TM who would completely agree. however to consider another possibility, that if TM is the quickest way to enlightenment and the other impressive spiritual teachers did not have that comprenhensive spiritual knowledge/experience brought about by the complete practice of TM, wouldn't it be natural for them to find the Maharishi incomprehensible, and ego being what it is, declare him deluded?
[FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Just before midnight and the traditional puja before silence, MMY had some pundits chant Rig Veda. It was the first time I'd ever heard it. I immediately sat bolt up right, attuned to the moment as if I had become the vibration of the chant as it filled every pore of my being. -snip- my experience as well just listening to it. from the Maharishi channel a few years ago, i downloaded many vedic chants onto CD. changes my consciousness radically when i listen to them (which is about once a year)- very purifying, like ingesting something. creates more space within me. very powerful and transformative.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Rick Archer wrote: 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: On governor training I loved listening to 9th Mandala but not so much the 10th, don't know why. Those were the days someone read the English translation while you enjoyed simple form of awareness. I have never liked the little earphones in the dome chanting 9th and 10th. It has never had the bliss evoking effect of having someone read to me. I guess I'm just high maintenance that way. A neat treat - listening to Herb Bandy recite the 9th and 10th Mandalas of Rig Veda, from memory, following group program in D.C. during the 80s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@... wrote: snip A neat treat - listening to Herb Bandy recite the 9th and 10th Mandalas of Rig Veda, from memory, following group program in D.C. during the 80s. Herb was on my TTC. Great guy. I wonder what he is up to these days.
[FairfieldLife] 'Jesus Saves/Son of Hamas'
Son of Hamas Leader Gives Glimpse Into Terror Organization Friday, January 02, 2009 As Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other world leaders try to broker a cease-fire agreement between Israel and Hamas, one former member of the militant Islamic organization said there will never be lasting peace between the two groups. There is no chance. Is there any chance for fire to co-exist with the water? said Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of the group's founding members. Yousef added: It's not about Israel, it's not about Hamas: it's about both ideologies. Yousef, son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, one of the most influential leaders of the militant group, said the organization betrays the Palestinian cause and tortures its own members. • Video: Click here for more on FOX News' special Escape from Hamas. Hamas, formed in the late 1980's as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the radical Muslim Brotherhood, is considered a terror organization by the U.S. government. Hamas seized power in the Gaza strip in 2007 in a violent coup against the more moderate Palestinian Authority led by Mahmoud Abbas. /**/ Yousef said he was indoctrinated at an early age to use violence to challenge Israeli control in the region. As a teenager he moved up within the organization and became the leader of the radical Islamic Youth Movement that fought Israeli tanks and troops in the streets, celebrated suicide bombings and recruited young men to the cause. Yousef, 30, said he realized the true nature of Hamas and radical Islam during a stint in an Israeli prison. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and converted to Christianity. Islam is not the word of God, said Yousef. If you want to be offended it's your problem. But you know something? Go study. Think for a second that I might be right. So wake up, look at your path, see where you're going. Are you really going to heaven with 72 virgins after you kill yourself and kill another 20 people? Yousef has sought asylum in the United States and now attends an evangelical Christian church in San Diego, Calif. The Hamas leadership, including my father, they're responsible; they're responsible for all the violence that happened from the organization. I know they describe it as reaction to Israeli aggression, but still, they are part of it and they had to make decisions in those operations against Israel (for) which there was the killing of many civilians. Yousef talks more about his extraordinary story of faith, courage, violence and betrayal in a FOX News documentary, Escape From Hamas, hosted by Bill Hemmer. Escape from Hamas airs Sat at 10p, with repeats at 1am and 4a, EST, and Sun at 9pm, with repeats at 12 midnight, 2am, EST. • Click here to view video of Mosab Hassan Yousef speaking out.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. Rick, I want to expand upon this part of your post and hopefully broaden the discussion. The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. If Maharishi himself never felt that anyone met his criteria for enlightenment, at least not enough to announce it publicly, then what are the chances that anyone following after him will ever do so? It will be a spiritual tradition that leaves behind it no recognized enlightened beings. Compare and contrast to traditions that seem to have no problem congratulating someone when they graduate and realize enlightenment. Now admittedly there are some arguable problems with the tradition of certifying enlightenment. Does your diploma mean anything? Certainly in the past some schools were giving away such certificates of enlightenment indiscriminately, and probably to people who didn't deserve them, just to bolster the reputation of their school as actually producing enlightenment. The Japanese poet Ikkyu, when presented with his own inka or certificate of enlightenment from a noted school of Zen, took it and threw it on the ground and stomped it into dust. But the *alternative*? To establish an enlightenment tradition that seems to allow NO ONE to graduate and be recognized as enlightened? That strikes me as kinda self- defeating, if not actually Self defeating. :-) As you suggest, if enlightenment itself is put up on a pedestal so high that none can achieve it, is it likely that any of the students in that tradition WILL ever achieve it? I paid my dues in two spiritual traditions in which enlightenment was pedestalized and no one in the tradition except the teacher was allowed to be considered enlightened. Since then I have run into a few traditions that *don't* pedestalize enlight- enment and that *don't* have any problem with their students realizing enlightenment. They don't demonize students when it happens, they congratulate them. Even given the problems associated with certifying enlightenment, I still have to believe that a trad- ition like this in which it is permitted to announce your enlightened is more likely to actually produce enlightenment than a tradition in which announcing the good news may result in you being expelled and declared a heretic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:38 AM, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: On governor training I loved listening to 9th Mandala but not so much the 10th, don't know why. Those were the days someone read the English translation while you enjoyed simple form of awareness. I have never liked the little earphones in the dome chanting 9th and 10th. It has never had the bliss evoking effect of having someone read to me. I guess I'm just high maintenance that way. A neat treat - listening to Herb Bandy recite the 9th and 10th Mandalas of Rig Veda, from memory, following group program in D.C. during the 80s. As luck would have it (and my life has been full of luck and freak turns of events which turned out well [and this doesn't appear in my chart]), I was commuting during H St. NW, Washington, DC peak between Baltimore and San Francisco/Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. So I got to take the flight to Dulles, rent a car and drive to for a WPA then drive to Baltimore (or do the reverse trip) almost about anytime I wanted. I Saw the 4th of July celebrations on the National Mall so many times with 6 rounds under by belt for the day. Anyhow, we used to gather in one of the former hotel rooms and listen to the Rik Veda. DC was a pretty rough place and rounding or even doing program in DC was a very rough and raw experience. Lots of CC, lots of unstressing. I so fondly remember sitting there listening to the mandalas. So many cognitions. Yes, Judy, there seems to be a 3 dimensional aspect to the Vedas, especially for me the 9th Mandala. I've never done acid but the experiences I had listening to the 9th Mandala, read in English pale in comparison to what I've heard acid experiences are like. I can't keep track of what they're playing in the Dome these days. Nobody I know seem to be very impressed with the chanting. The experiences during hours of flying are the big thing these days. I still keep my Rik Veda books handly. I love to read out of them and still have those really wild experiences.
[FairfieldLife] An ecumenical MUM?
This strikes me as interesting. Maharishi University's Sustainable Living Department is hosting an expert who represents a tradition other than the vedic tradition. He follows the Anthroposophical teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Typically, M.U.M. doesn't entertain experts from fields that compete with anything Maharishi promoted or taught, and Maharishi founded his own honey making operation. Bees and bee keeping are big topics in biodynamic farming, which this guest speaker practices. It's nice to see the University accepting teachings other than its own. Here's the announcement from Alumni Association Director Jennine Fellmer: Dear Alumni and University Friends, The Sustainable Living Dept is happy and proud to host Mr. Gunther Hauk, top expert on organic natural biodynamic beekeeping, on our M.U.M. campus. Mr. Hauk will teach a 3-day workshop to our SL students during block 5 and has graciously agreed to present his work and knowledge of organic natural biodynamic beekeeping to our M.U.M. and Fairfield community. Don't miss this opportunity! The presentation will be held this Tuesday, January 6th, 8:00 p.m. at our new Argiro Student Center in Dalby Hall. Admission is free. Email this info and invitation to your friends! For more info: www.spikenardfarm.org Best wishes for an enlightening and sustainable new year, Bee well, Alex Kachan, Sustainable Agriculture and Composting Coordinator akac...@mum.edu
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. Rick, I want to expand upon this part of your post and hopefully broaden the discussion. The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. If Maharishi himself never felt that anyone met his criteria for enlightenment, at least not enough to announce it publicly, then what are the chances that anyone following after him will ever do so? It will be a spiritual tradition that leaves behind it no recognized enlightened beings. Compare and contrast to traditions that seem to have no problem congratulating someone when they graduate and realize enlightenment. Now admittedly there are some arguable problems with the tradition of certifying enlightenment. Does your diploma mean anything? Certainly in the past some schools were giving away such certificates of enlightenment indiscriminately, and probably to people who didn't deserve them, just to bolster the reputation of their school as actually producing enlightenment. The Japanese poet Ikkyu, when presented with his own inka or certificate of enlightenment from a noted school of Zen, took it and threw it on the ground and stomped it into dust. But the *alternative*? To establish an enlightenment tradition that seems to allow NO ONE to graduate and be recognized as enlightened? That strikes me as kinda self- defeating, if not actually Self defeating. :-) As you suggest, if enlightenment itself is put up on a pedestal so high that none can achieve it, is it likely that any of the students in that tradition WILL ever achieve it? I paid my dues in two spiritual traditions in which enlightenment was pedestalized and no one in the tradition except the teacher was allowed to be considered enlightened. Since then I have run into a few traditions that *don't* pedestalize enlight- enment and that *don't* have any problem with their students realizing enlightenment. They don't demonize students when it happens, they congratulate them. Even given the problems associated with certifying enlightenment, I still have to believe that a trad- ition like this in which it is permitted to announce your enlightened is more likely to actually produce enlightenment than a tradition in which announcing the good news may result in you being expelled and declared a heretic. Why would someone who is enlightened, ever want to be 'Certified'... This is as ridiculous a concept as one could imagine. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
yes-- agree with you completely here dr. pete. i grow tired and nauseated at the endless claims to measure or not measure enlightenment scientifically here on FFL. enlightenment is about a phase transition of consciousness, a radical, everything turns upside down, and inside out, shift in living and perceiving and thinking about the world. nothing about enlightenment can be verified by physiological measurements, or by transient experiences of witnessing. both are a total waste of time wrt actually experiencing enlightenment. enlightenment is not about transient experience or measurement, or CC or GC or UC. it is a way of living that once permanently established, takes the enlightened one on a journey of its own, wholly unpredictable and completely comprehensible. the enlightenment becomes real and the person who has become it, evaporates. this cannot be understood by having a fleeting experience of some tangible aspect of enlightenment, like ritam or witnessing or no thought samadhi. it must be lived permanently to be understood. and the only way for householders to get there quickly is through TM and TMSP. the reason the Maharishi set criteria for enlightenment was so that people would continue to practice TM and the TMSP, not so that people could be measured against this set of practically impossible criteria. HE JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO BECOME ENLIGHTENED. he knew that the quickest way was to do TM and TMSP, so he set out to place one hell of a lot of carrots into people's sticky consciousness (lol). there is no need nor any desire for the TMO to hold up some enlightened people as an attraction for TM. that would accomplish nothing. even if we study enlightened people under a microscope all it will show us is fragments and validate nothing, not the wholeness we are seeking. the Maharishi's sole purpose was to get us all doing TM and keep us doing TM until we passed through the doorway marked 'enlightenment', and kept on going. he knew many would fall by the wayside, for as consciousness expands, so does the ego, declaring itself to be the expander and knower of all things. only by continually, regularly and mechanically transcending with TM, and giving the ego nothing to hold onto will the practitioner be able to get out of his/her own way, gaining permanent enlightenment. the Maharishi knew that by introducing light into people's consciousness, many would grow uncomfortable with the mud being stirred up, and would quit meditating. others would get addicted to flashy experiences and leave the practice in search of more. still others would find new meaning in the religions of the world and quit TM. and others sadly would proclaim what they had accomplished solely of their own doing, and decry the Maharishi as the ego tripper, when it was in fact themselves who worshipped themselves, lost in their own reflection. so the Maharishi constantly sought to bring new angles to TM, in the hopes that it would keep people interested in continuing to do TM. and by continually doing TM, the goal would quickly be reached. of course the flip side of a teacher introducing different facets of his knowledge, is that the path for some becomes mistaken for the result. this is why at the core of what he brought out was the ceaseless emphasis on transcending through TM to quickly gain enlightenment. which brings up a point which i wrestled with continuously on this miraculous journey- what quickly means in this context. the Maharishi was always talking in terms of a few years and bingo! enlightenment would dawn. and yet all of us who continued TM went through decades of wading through mud, dullness, and effort-- where was the hop, skip and jump into enlightenment? not only that, but given the utter transformational nature of enlightenment, we can be one week away from the doorway, and still feel as if it is decades off. all i can conclude is that if i knew all of that, and knowing than enlightenment dawns in its own time (when we are ready to sustain the experience permanently), as a teacher i would have proclaimed TM as the quickest route, rather than examine every facet and obstacle faced by those on the path. after all, the Maharishi was never a personal guru, he was always a world teacher. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: NOT ONE! Areed Turq, the TMO has not produced one enlightened personaccording to the powers that be conception of enlightenment. And there's the catch. There has been such an investment in the idea of enlightenment rather than the actual direct realization, that any criteria are in the realm of personality, rather than the transcendent apperception of consciousness conscious of its own consciousness. -snip-
[FairfieldLife] Re: digitizing Vedic chanting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: Herb was on my TTC. Great guy. I wonder what he is up to these days. From appearances, Herb is an incredibly steady person.. long-term job with same employer, has the same wife, still does group program.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: -snip- Why would someone who is enlightened, ever want to be 'Certified'... This is as ridiculous a concept as one could imagine. R.G. from the standpoint of the ego-bound, this would be like having your cake and eating it too. a really stupid idea.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2009 Forecast from Predictive Linguistics
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Robert babajii...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: They say, that in order to tune into the collective happens in the Delta brainwave range, associated with deep sleep... The trick is to remain aware during Delta. An adjunct to this is to buy a CD, that you could find for sale on the internet, that produces specifically Delta brain waves, so you can get used to staying aware during Delta, which is associated with deep sleep. R.G. Thanks for the recitation. But as far as brain wave entrainment, well, it doesn't work for me. I own the complete collection of Flightwaves, Monroe Institute and Centerpointe. When I go to listen to these CD I basically just transcend a bit the start unstressing. If I want experiences, I merely have to do TM 20 minutes, wait the appropriate time then do the sutras. WPA/Dome programs where I repeat the sutra from 4 to 16 times get me to having the experiences. It's very helpful to have my badge close to me, even if doing program in my room, so when the question who am I, where am I comes, I can pull out the badge and piece my memory back together.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: -snip- Why would someone who is enlightened, ever want to be 'Certified'... This is as ridiculous a concept as one could imagine. R.G. from the standpoint of the ego-bound, this would be like having your cake and eating it too. a really stupid idea. BTW, doesn't Bevan have his 'Cerified Enlightened Pet-agree'?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Rick, I want to expand upon this part of your post and hopefully broaden the discussion. The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. If Maharishi himself never felt that anyone met his criteria for enlightenment, at least not enough to announce it publicly, then what are the chances that anyone following after him will ever do so? It will be a spiritual tradition that leaves behind it no recognized enlightened beings. Just for fun, imagine what it would be like if MUM decided to apply the same rationale to its degree programs that it does to certifying enlightenment. This is how the conversation between an MUM recruiter and a potential student might go: Student: So you're telling me that when I get my Ph.D in Enlightenment from your university, I will be able to levitate and manifest all of the other siddhis you've been talking about? Recruiter: Absolutely. The very *definition* of having earned a Ph.D in Enlightenment is that you will be able to levitate and manifest all of the other siddhis. And you'll be perfect, to boot. Cool, huh? Student: Cool. I want to hear more. Can I talk to one of your students who has gotten their PhDinE? I want to ask them what it's like to levitate and how much potential employers are likely to pay me for that when I graduate! Recruiter: Well...uh...I'm afraid you can't talk to any of our PhDinE graduates right now. Student: Why? Aren't any of them here today? Recruiter: Well...uh...the truth is, no one has ever really graduated. We haven't ever bestowed a Ph.D in Enlightenment on anyone. Student: [after a short pause] So you're saying that if I sign up for this Ph.D in Enlightenment program and pay you several thousand dollars a year in tuition, you may never give me my degree? Recruiter: Exactly. Isn't that blissful? Student: I guess. Could you direct me to the booth for Harvard? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip Even given the problems associated with certifying enlightenment, I still have to believe that a trad- ition like this in which it is permitted to announce your enlightened is more likely to actually produce enlightenment than a tradition in which announcing the good news may result in you being expelled and declared a heretic. Why would someone who is enlightened, ever want to be 'Certified'... This is as ridiculous a concept as one could imagine. R.G. Not so. Given that its difficult to define enlightenment the whole idea of achieving it is a ridiculous concept. The conversation about enlightenment is at its heart ridiculous. Given the amorphous nature of enlightenment, the multiple interpretations of its achievement in a variety of traditions, then certifying the process would be appropriate to the nature of the task. s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: -snip- Why would someone who is enlightened, ever want to be 'Certified'... This is as ridiculous a concept as one could imagine. R.G. from the standpoint of the ego-bound, this would be like having your cake and eating it too. a really stupid idea. BTW, doesn't Bevan have his 'Cerified Enlightened Pet-agree'? ha-ha-- i would never want to be him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 2009 Forecast from Predictive Linguistics
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal L.Shaddai@ wrote: They say, that in order to tune into the collective happens in the Delta brainwave range, associated with deep sleep... The trick is to remain aware during Delta. An adjunct to this is to buy a CD, that you could find for sale on the internet, that produces specifically Delta brain waves, so you can get used to staying aware during Delta, which is associated with deep sleep. R.G. Thanks for the recitation. But as far as brain wave entrainment, well, it doesn't work for me. I own the complete collection of Flightwaves, Monroe Institute and Centerpointe. When I go to listen to these CD I basically just transcend a bit the start unstressing. If I want experiences, I merely have to do TM 20 minutes, wait the appropriate time then do the sutras. WPA/Dome programs where I repeat the sutra from 4 to 16 times get me to having the experiences. It's very helpful to have my badge close to me, even if doing program in my room, so when the question who am I, where am I comes, I can pull out the badge and piece my memory back together. Well, you say: 'Been There Done That'... And it is obvious, through your conversations, that you are well beyond the need for such entrapements, and I know the atmosphere there, must be intense enough, as it is. But, there are some who are falling asleep consistently, so, in these cases the Delta wave CD, can be helpful in 'Just Staying Awake' until the CD, ends... Which is like 'Going to the Gym', for your mind, and get it used to staying awake when Delta functioning appears, in the Dome. One of the theory's of Carl Jungs idea of the 'Collective Unconscious', Is that it happens in 'Delta State' at night, when your soul, leaves the body, and attempts to integrate with other souls impressions, in an atmosphere of 'Un-Awareness'... But, if one can 'Maintain Awareness in Delta State', then it is presumed that one could influence directly the 'Collective Unconscious'... R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. snip I think your on to something Barry. I am reminded by a huge mistake John Smith made when he put together the Mormon religion. He allowed followers to have independent visions. In every major religion only the founder is allowed to have visions. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Arjuna, for example all get to have their visions but followers are not to privy to the special powers. John Smith screwed up and as a result every Tom, Dick and Harry in Utah can have a vision and start their own version of Mormonism. Every nook and cranny in the state is filled with cult compounds. Some of these cults are dangerous - ask Elizabeth Smart. The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Practice Groups of FF
very succinctly stated, eat what is on your plate. i fear many of the non TMers here are suffering from intense indigestion- (lol) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: This is the perfect object lesson in how the knowledge was lost. MMY knew it was inevitable. Sample the spiritual soup folks. Close your eyes to meditate and wonder, What spiritual practice should I do today? Mantra, silent, or chant? Felt sense of third eye, navel, or anus? Take your pick and while you're at it, imagine the bubble diagram refining your thoughts to the source of thought. TRY to keep the mind from jumping around like a monkey on crack, TRY to be in UNITY, and TRY to be innocent. Don't mind the confusion, it's all the SELF, RIGHT? Whatever floats your boat. Enjoy. This is the core topic of Maharishi's teachings, and the reason for the kerfuffle that is Fairfield Life, whether in its physical or cyberspace forms. If you accept Maharishi's position that knowledge gets lost and Guru Dev restored vedic wisdom in its purity, you pretty much have to be a TM absolutist. If you believe different people are suited to different paths, or that Maharishi made up an ineffective or even harmful meditation technique, then the MMY orthodoxy falls by the wayside. That's the fundamental argument around here. There is nothing wrong with choosing your favorite delicacy from the smorgasbord, but once you have chosen, eat what is on your plate. Dilettantes sample endlessly, are never satisfied and end up confused with whom to go home with after the party. The shills hype the purveyor's soup and both cash in. Meanwhile, your date for the dance, the prettiest of all the girls, (you lucky dog) was voted queen of the ball and stupid you, enchanted by all the other girls, danced like and fool with all but her. Eventually the music stopped, now weary of dancing and too old to care, you gently fade unnoticed into the wall of regret, a wilted flower denied of fragrance, too late to recover the magic. Absolutely schmaltzy absolutist, raunchydog
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Stu buttspli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. snip I think your on to something Barry. I am reminded by a huge mistake John Smith made when he put together the Mormon religion. He allowed followers to have independent visions. In every major religion only the founder is allowed to have visions. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Arjuna, for example all get to have their visions but followers are not to privy to the special powers. John Smith screwed up and as a result every Tom, Dick and Harry in Utah can have a vision and start their own version of Mormonism. Every nook and cranny in the state is filled with cult compounds. Some of these cults are dangerous - ask Elizabeth Smart. The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? s. Didn't Maharishi leave the ashram after his Master passed? Didn't he spend some time alone, just meditating. Don't you remember, before he passed, he meditated for many days. Alone. Remember these things, and you will need no cerification of anything. R.G.
Re: [FairfieldLife] An ecumenical MUM?
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@yahoo.com wrote: This strikes me as interesting. Maharishi University's Sustainable Living Department is hosting an expert who represents a tradition other than the vedic tradition. He follows the Anthroposophical teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Typically, M.U.M. doesn't entertain experts from fields that compete with anything Maharishi promoted or taught, and Maharishi founded his own honey making operation. The buzz on the Maharishi Channel, on IA and from the President's Office is to follows the Ammendments Maharishi made to the Constitution of the Universe. I've state it here before. The TMO, for business purposes, will become more ecumenical. We'll be making lots of alliances and business deals with non-TMO agents/people/organizations per Maharishi's orders. There is a reason, beyond the fact that Maharishi wanted to bring us a Vedic society, that Maharishi set us up with a simple speaking reclused king and princes. I am just starting to cognize the reason. Part of it I'm sure has to do with the obvious: they're not making any Maharishi clones these days. If we got someone as charismatic as Maharishi we'd get a new cult of personality and would be a new and different movement. The other has to do with viability. You can have a keeper of the knowledge and then you can have money changers in the temple. I've been wondering why there have been so few changes at MUM or within the TMO in the past year. I believe that the changes are a coming, they are just taking time to pick up steam and also put out to pasture those who represent the current way things are done. You can't through everybody out because it's not like there are a million people lined up to do the work at MUM for room, board and a few dollars a month. The TMO will take years before it starts giving badges back but it's already doing its best not to find a reason to take badges away. We're going to see a much different organization in the coming years, I'd wager.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Stu buttspli...@gmail.com wrote: From: Stu buttspli...@gmail.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 1:34 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. snip I think your on to something Barry. I am reminded by a huge mistake John Smith made when he put together the Mormon religion. He allowed followers to have independent visions. In every major religion only the founder is allowed to have visions. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Arjuna, for example all get to have their visions but followers are not to privy to the special powers. John Smith screwed up and as a result every Tom, Dick and Harry in Utah can have a vision and start their own version of Mormonism. Every nook and cranny in the state is filled with cult compounds. Some of these cults are dangerous - ask Elizabeth Smart. The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? s. When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:35 PM, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: snip The reason why so many TMers fall asleep is simple: they've turned the marketing description effortless into a mood-making dogma: they're afraid to use any mindfulness and balanced attention because of it. When attention becomes to lax, one falls into the tamasic aspect of sthiti, and they fall asleep. The stress at the level of the nervous system excuse is BS. It's a well-known phenomenon. This is so off-the-wall it's hard to know where to begin. Vaj isn't describing anything that relates to TM. Effortless is not a marketing description; it's the essence of the technique. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the term is *used* in marketing TM, that's all it is. It's just convenient that in addition to being a dead-on accurate description of the technique, it's also appealing to many people. Nor is it possible to use it as a mood-making dogma--that's a whopping category error, akin to saying that Tuesday is in the key of C minor. Mood- making is the antithesis of effortlessness; if you're mood-making, you're *doing something*, so it's not effortless by definition. Nor is there anything in effortlessness to make a mood *of*. And it's not that TMers are afraid to use any mindfulness or balanced attention; those are simply not part of TM practice. The instant you start using them, you've stopped doing TM. People fall asleep during meditation not because they've fallen into the tamasic aspect of sthiti, they fall asleep because they're *fatigued*. If you've gotten enough rest and you aren't drowsy when you meditate, just the state of wakefulness itself provides all the attention you need without your having to do anything to maintain it. Ahhh, I could go on and on. Vaj's whole mental model of what TM is and how it works is so bollixed up there's no way to straighten it out. I don't like to debate and definitely don't like to get in between you two, but I must assert that Vaj's assertions about why the Dome people sleep are sheer and utter bullshit. It comes to pass that the Dome is the only place these people get any decent sleep. Insomnia is rampant within the sidha community. So rampant that it might be one of the reasons why there is so much ill health. The body goes into its deep healing cycle during sleep. And these people are doing everything they can to try to get a handle on their insomnia. The problem is that the cure rate for insomnia with Ayurveda and MVVT is very poor. I have tried MVVT, twice, and loads of Ayurved. I am happy with Ambien CR. Works for me, quite well. Mark Toomey almost had a calf when he saw on my form that I take Ambien CR. He told me all these terrible things which happen with the drug. Well, take it then hit the rack. Don't take it and drive, stay on FFL, get a snack. The drug can make you sleep walk/drive/eat. But I pretty much told Mark that I knew of the side effects and for me, the stuff works so buzz off. Of course we're supposed to keep our maladies secret so though probably each person is quietly and secretly aware of the other person's insomnia problems, there's so much of the mind your own business going on that people don't put two and two together and decide that sleep is the most important thing, during the hours when the sun is down in FF, and take appropriate action because the usual TMO nostrums (and money makers) don't work for insomnia. Now the IA people I hang out with don't sleep in the Dome because they might have a night or two of insomnia but it's not a crippling thing.
[FairfieldLife] 'Israel Unveils New Weapon'
Israel is using a new weapon system, which releases a blanket of smoke, which hovers close to the ground, thus using this smoke screen as cover... There is also a rumer, the smoke is laced the cannibus indica or 'Shiva Herb' and has the influence of creating a buzz. R.G.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Obama: Great Healer?
cardemaister wrote: According to a Finnish astrologer, Mr. Seppo Tanhua (and prolly many others, too) Obama might become a/the? Great Healer of da World, because he has Chiron near Ascendant (in Pisces) trine Neptune (in Scorpio). [Obaman askendentilta löytyvä Chiron (haavoittunut parantaja) tekee tästä miehestä parhaassa tapauksessa suuren maailman parantajan, joskin hyvin vaativissa olosuhteissa. Chiron tekee Obaman askendentilta kolmiota Neptunukselle, jonka voimme lukea kyvyksi tehdä intuitiivisesti oikeita ratkaisuja tiukoissa tilanteissa.] :] Obama is just a man, not a super-hero. Super heroes are myths anyway. Sort of an early attempt at trying to improve people's self image (you can do anything BS). He will be many times more a diplomat than the goof that is in the White House at the moment. In fact to just be a diplomat over that goof would be magnitudes of improvement. He can probably get some good dialogs going between world leaders. But much of that won't help the economic situation which could have been avoided by the present goof's administration staying out of wars and continuing some of the policies of the previous administration maintaining a surplus and not a deficit.
Re: [FairfieldLife] TMSP zombies; was spirituality spot found in brain
Vaj wrote: snip Ever see the movie The Serpent and the Rainbow? A true story. I watched it again last night. I probably saw it years ago on VHS (yuck!). Right now it is available on FearNet in HD on Comcast OnDemand for free.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 'As Moon Wanes/Israelis Wacks'
Robert wrote:
MSNBC, is reportiing the mourning, that Israel is getting ready to
'Blitzkrieg Gaza'...
From viewing the pictures in Gaza this morning, one 'Get's the?Feeling', hat
many will git kilt today.
The music in Gaza is 'Hard Metal'...
Israel is planning a massive bombing, to clear all major roads, 'IN GAZA'...
Before the 'Blitz'...
Many are preparing death,
IIn the 'Battle for {['Peace+Holy Land'...
I think this is a conspiracy to start WW III to help with the global
economic situation. That would tell you how dumb the powers at be
are. We could wind up with nuclear winters or no life on earth. But
the RAND think tank recommended WW III as a way to sidestep a great
depression. Personally with nuclear weapons abounding I'd rather go
through a depression.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What did you take with you from TM
ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote: I've come to dismiss the TM-is-the-only-way rhetoric of Maharishi The our way is the super highway is the most bothersome to me, as there is no indication whatsoever that there is basis for this claim. The second claim of TM that is nearly as bothersome to me is that TM works for everyone. In most other yogic traditions mantras for the general public are either Shiva or Shanti mantras because they are considered safe to give anyone. Giving goddess mantras is not considered safe for just anyone. That may explain the problems that I would say at least 20% of the practitioners experienced with TM.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 2009 Forecast from Predictive Linguistics
I am the eternal wrote: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote: From a friend: This link goes to an overview of 2009 as anticipated by Predictive Linguistics, which I have been following for the last several months. PL works by reading publicly available internet data and condensing it into meaningful (interpretable) phrases such as (from last spring with its record breaking number of tornados) them winds. Please help me out here. These people make a big deal that they have someone who used to work as a troubleshooter for The Big SQL Company. Now that's either Oracle Corp., IBM Corp. (invented SQL), Microsoft (which owns SQL Server) or Sun Microsystems (owner of MySQL). All of these companies, when it comes to SQL are pretty much in the same business. I'm a senior fellow type consultant at one of these companies and I'll tell you I can't make sense out of all of this. It looks like these people have built a big database of words. Words with all sorts of attributes, are assigned for Hex digits (that's 65565 or 65566 decimal). There's preprocessing software which goes through forums and blogs and aggregates are derived. Then the human element enters and predictions are made. Now this is what I don't get. It /appears/ that these people are asserting that they predicted 9/11, typhoons, earthquakes and various stages of the financial and economic chaos based on linguistics. I understand their process but I don't understand how they can predict. Are these people trying to say that there's a universal unconscious they can put a handle on and that universal unconscious predicts or makes things like typhoons or earthquakes happen? How. Animals can tell that weather or geologic events that effect their well being are about to happen. But not with a month's notice. I'm facinated in just how this all works. They don't give you enough information as to how it works(obviously or others would develop free and possibly open source versions). But I did notice from their predictions last year most of their alert periods corresponded with transit afflictions to planets, particularly slow moving ones. Interesting, eh?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:54 AM, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Rick is an honorable man. Quite low key but stronger than an elephant in his quiet way. I believe him that he knows enlightened people. He happens to know me and is a witness to the signs that I've been having some flashy experiences over the past year. No, no claim of enlightment here, just a claim that life is interesting and livey and that's enough for me. Myself, I don't need a certificate. Damn, man, the Kingdom of God is within you and you are in every direction you look (a constant experience of mine). What use is a piece of paper? And Sal, have your laugh that I am a TB member of a cult. This cult has done OK by me, considering. I am very happy to be having these experiences and these experiences are enough for me. If I were met at the Dome by the powers that be asking for my badge, that would be fine and dandy with me. It's not like Devco can't piece together all I posts and figure out who I am. I've graduated, except I like the experiences I often get in the Dome (when things are really hopping and the numbers are up) and well, old habits die hard. I believe that certifying people as being enlightened, whatever that means, would not be productive for the TMO. The Gita and SOB have not sunk into enough people inside and beyond the TMO. If anybody thinks that The Big Embarrassment is a crock of shit (but in many ways a useful crock of shit, because I like the feel of vastu), then consider what a crock of shit we'd had on their hands if we actually had examples of enlightened people to gawk at. This one likes rollerblading. So I guess I'll add rollerblading to my daily routine. This woman has been married to the same man all her life and has lovely and children. I'd better hurry up and get remarried. This one likes the spicy shrimp curry at Thai Palace. God I hate Thai food, but looks like that's going to be the basis of my new diet. I agree with Rick that the TMO is a great incubator. Perhaps it's success should not be measured in how many have stayed but how many have moved on. I don't think Maharishi was deluded or deluding when he said that TM was the fastest, most powerful way to achieve enlightenment. I believe that given the kind of people who came, the diverse lives they lead that TM works pretty well. I also think that those of you who have left the TMO are proof that TM works. It helped you get to your senses and find that for you in particular there were better things which suit you. I do agree with the statements that Maharishi became very interested in cashflow when the Merv Wave died and each of the many embarrassments did generate a lot of money and did some good. Lord knows there are a lot of members of FFL who have learned Sanskrit and Jyotish. I look at Maharishi as the headmaster for a prep school. A kind of embarassing prep school, but a prep school with some pretty notable graduates nonetheless.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Israel Unveils New Weapon'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: Israel is using a new weapon system, which releases a blanket of smoke, which hovers close to the ground, thus using this smoke screen as cover... There is also a rumer, the smoke is laced the cannibus indica or 'Shiva Herb' and has the influence of creating a buzz. R.G. This doesn't make sense, Robert. If the weapon is to provide a cover that, as I understand it, is to provide a cover for the attacking Israeli troops, not for the people (their enemies) they are attacking. Therefore, why would they want to inhibit the ability of their soldiers to perform by making them high?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Stu buttspli...@... wrote: The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? If someone left the TMO whether or not they had a piece of paper stamped Grade A like a piece of meat, wasn't because MMY feared the competition. He clearly understood that if ya gotta go ya gotta go and he wouldn't try to prevent it. If someone wanted to leave, they left and it's certifiably crazy to think certification would either prevent or make certain someone would start their own brand of TM. The only thing that keeps a TM teacher from competing with MMY is a promise to keep the teaching pure and they honor their promise or not. Peter wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Exactly. Lesson: Don't mix da soup with da nuts. raunchydog
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:39 AM, raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: The dogma gets in my way on a number of points, but I sure appreciate Christianity a whole lot more than I did pre-TM. I've lived most of my life without a religious practice, except for brief attempts to get into it to see what it was like, so I don't really feel a lack in that department. But it wouldn't surprise me a bit if I began to be drawn to it, and I'd welcome it. I could really dig a Christian congregation led by a minister who practiced TM and preached the Gospel according to SCI. Tom Miller, a long time TM teacher, was my first SCI teacher in 1972 in Grosse Pointe, Michigan. He became a priest for the Liberal Catholic Church and established St. Gabriel and All Angels in Fairfield about 20 years ago http://tinyurl.com/7ukvrt I go through phases of attending regularly and enjoy the long liturgy, and short sermon in the light of SCI. The congregation, mostly TM'ers, is small but packed on Christmas Eve and Easter. Even those who profess no religion, end up asking Tom to marry and bury loved ones. In times of need, who do you call? The Big Guy in the Sky. Church feels like family and I'm grateful for Tom's commitment to serving our community. Tom Miller and his deacons are saints in my book. I guess it's become a Christmas tradition to gather as many people as we have cars for: men, women, RC Catholics from many countries, Muslims, Israeli Jews and go to the Christmas benediction at St. Gabriel and All Angels. A wonderful joy, especially when you've just put in 6-8 hours of rounding in one of the domes. I pass around notes to my friends on what this part of the benediction means, what this or that word means. My friends and I have a ball. Thanks Tom and the deacons.
[FairfieldLife] While I'll be glad when Monday comes
I'm sure all the folks who work at companies and got most of the holiday season off are enjoying it. As someone who is self-employed it created a real downside. 1) When Monday comes the amateurs (who don't usually drive) will be off the freeways for one. Although this worked a little more favorably for me yesterday as I drove the 40 miles over to Union City to visit my tantric guru. Traffic was much lighter than during a work week especially along the few miles I have to drive on 880. I also figured that Friday's rush hour would be so much lighter than usual and indeed it was, no slowdowns. That is except for one. As I was approaching a junction I found myself behind a red Kia sedan puttering along at well below the limit. I should have just zipped around. I figured the individual was probably terrified at traffic in the area and not used to driving. But once I got on the other side of the junction wondering how they were going to handle merging into the fast lane (of the ill designed interchange) and got around the car like it was standing still I discovered the driver was a woman yapping away on her cell phone oblivious to everything and NOT hands free. A CHP officer would give a big ticket for that as she driving too slow so she would not have gotten just a warning. 2) Theater matinées will be less crowded or down to a handful of people. I decided to take in Milk at the Cinearts theater a few miles away. It was packed due to the holidays. Usually I could have my choice of seats even at the last moment. Though Milk is a good biopic with some good performances I would not say it is Van Sant's best (which the ad hype suggests -- but critics are idiots anyway). In fact it seemed to be a little confused about how the story line should be treated and he may have been trying to avoid a cliche looking biopic. It may well win at Oscar time since Hollywood is big on voting in cause films. I did note that unlike Century's other theaters (unless their online info is wrong) the senior age at night is 62 AND they on Monday evenings films are a $1 off that price. Sometimes it's good to be an old fogey. 3) And of course Starbucks won't be as crowded. Looking forward to Monday.
Re: [FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
I apologize for my inability to snip and for posting on top instead of on the bottom, the more righteous way to reply. I can't snip because every word is masterful. Will go down in my book as one of the best ways of explaining it all. I don't want to detract from your statement and hope I don't in saying that Maharishi was speaking out of his own experience when talking about the time it takes to become enlightened. It takes but a second or less to become enlightened, or so it seems because you are transiting from a life in which there is time and a life in which there is only timelessness. You aren't take a journey. You're opening a door on a big wormhole in space that takes you from where you are to where you are. You don't go anywhere. You just see things, live things in a different way. Thank you so much, ED11 for this. I will cherish it. On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:12 PM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: yes-- agree with you completely here dr. pete. i grow tired and nauseated at the endless claims to measure or not measure enlightenment scientifically here on FFL. enlightenment is about a phase transition of consciousness, a radical, everything turns upside down, and inside out, shift in living and perceiving and thinking about the world. nothing about enlightenment can be verified by physiological measurements, or by transient experiences of witnessing. both are a total waste of time wrt actually experiencing enlightenment. enlightenment is not about transient experience or measurement, or CC or GC or UC. it is a way of living that once permanently established, takes the enlightened one on a journey of its own, wholly unpredictable and completely comprehensible. the enlightenment becomes real and the person who has become it, evaporates. this cannot be understood by having a fleeting experience of some tangible aspect of enlightenment, like ritam or witnessing or no thought samadhi. it must be lived permanently to be understood. and the only way for householders to get there quickly is through TM and TMSP. the reason the Maharishi set criteria for enlightenment was so that people would continue to practice TM and the TMSP, not so that people could be measured against this set of practically impossible criteria. HE JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO BECOME ENLIGHTENED. he knew that the quickest way was to do TM and TMSP, so he set out to place one hell of a lot of carrots into people's sticky consciousness (lol). there is no need nor any desire for the TMO to hold up some enlightened people as an attraction for TM. that would accomplish nothing. even if we study enlightened people under a microscope all it will show us is fragments and validate nothing, not the wholeness we are seeking. the Maharishi's sole purpose was to get us all doing TM and keep us doing TM until we passed through the doorway marked 'enlightenment', and kept on going. he knew many would fall by the wayside, for as consciousness expands, so does the ego, declaring itself to be the expander and knower of all things. only by continually, regularly and mechanically transcending with TM, and giving the ego nothing to hold onto will the practitioner be able to get out of his/her own way, gaining permanent enlightenment. the Maharishi knew that by introducing light into people's consciousness, many would grow uncomfortable with the mud being stirred up, and would quit meditating. others would get addicted to flashy experiences and leave the practice in search of more. still others would find new meaning in the religions of the world and quit TM. and others sadly would proclaim what they had accomplished solely of their own doing, and decry the Maharishi as the ego tripper, when it was in fact themselves who worshipped themselves, lost in their own reflection. so the Maharishi constantly sought to bring new angles to TM, in the hopes that it would keep people interested in continuing to do TM. and by continually doing TM, the goal would quickly be reached. of course the flip side of a teacher introducing different facets of his knowledge, is that the path for some becomes mistaken for the result. this is why at the core of what he brought out was the ceaseless emphasis on transcending through TM to quickly gain enlightenment. which brings up a point which i wrestled with continuously on this miraculous journey- what quickly means in this context. the Maharishi was always talking in terms of a few years and bingo! enlightenment would dawn. and yet all of us who continued TM went through decades of wading through mud, dullness, and effort-- where was the hop, skip and jump into enlightenment? not only that, but given the utter transformational nature of enlightenment, we can be one week away from the doorway, and still feel as if it is decades off. all i can conclude is that if i knew all of that, and knowing than enlightenment dawns in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Shaddai, Beautiful post. I remember this was the exact analogy MMY used when he said it was a waste of time to judge someone from their outward appearance or behavior whether or not they were enlightened. At every turn he reminded us to KISS (keep it simple stupid). And doing so, he saved us from frauds who would pretend enlightenment in order to manipulate and sucker us into stroking their ego. He saved us from becoming grandiose about our own grand experiences. He saved us from looking for outward signs of enlightenment in others, rather than looking inward and tending to our own enlightenment. He saved us. Not in the Jesus kind of way, (I really don't know that for sure). He saved us from confusion, with a KISS. But dang, if that ain't just about impossible to do for folks who get off on nitpicking and until nothing remains of innocence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I believe that certifying people as being enlightened, whatever that means, would not be productive for the TMO. The Gita and SOB have not sunk into enough people inside and beyond the TMO. If anybody thinks that The Big Embarrassment is a crock of shit (but in many ways a useful crock of shit, because I like the feel of vastu), then consider what a crock of shit we'd had on their hands if we actually had examples of enlightened people to gawk at. This one likes rollerblading. So I guess I'll add rollerblading to my daily routine. This woman has been married to the same man all her life and has lovely and children. I'd better hurry up and get remarried. This one likes the spicy shrimp curry at Thai Palace. God I hate Thai food, but looks like that's going to be the basis of my new diet.
[FairfieldLife] Word orders of different paaThas
2) Styles of recitation As well as reciting straight through the mantra, there are other forms of recitation ( such as pada, mala, jatha, sikha, krama, ghana ) which aid the memorisation process. These styles only apply to the samhita portion of the Veda. In Taittiriya Sakha, we do not recite, for example, krama pATHa of the Brahmana, Aranyaka and Upanishad portions. Those interested can find more details in the pratisakhyas, particularly Rig Veda Pratisakhya: For example we have: i) samhitA pATHa This is the normal style of reciting, the word order being 123456 etc ii) pada pATHa Here , each word is recited individually. samAsa'a are split as well, using the word iti (see example below). The word order is as per samhita, but each word is recited separately, breaking the sandhi iii) krama pATHa Here, the word order is 12, 23, 34, 45 etc iv) Ghana pATHa Here, the word order is 1221123321123, 2332234432234 etc Here, the swara will modify according to the rules of swara, depending on how the phrase is split. The are probably only around 200 ghanapATHi's, who can recite ghanapATHa of their whole samhita portion in the whole of India. There are some who believe that the Veda mantras should not all be recited in the style of ghanapATHa. As you can see, in ghanapATHa recitation, the words are recited in reverse order. The concern amongst these scholars is that the sense of the mantra could be changed, hence it should not be recited in ghanapATHa. I personally find ghanapATHa exhilerating to recite, particulalry in a group. http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/1998-October/031178.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Why this religious thread matters to me: One of the reasons I am not religious is that I notice that geography trumps all else with people's belief in the superiority of their religious perspective. There is no need for me to post on this forum. Curtis says it all better than I do. I bow to you Curtis! I am a fan of yours Ruth, please don't stop posting! Curtis, I agree. All the voices matter. Ruth keep posting, you have a lot to contribute to the flavor of FF Life.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Does Ravi Shankar claim enlightenment ? And he was doing TM for years, no ? Oh, no, ofcourse he didn't, he probably was doing something else even though he was Maharishi's student. Because if he did there you'd have one enlightened fellow from TM right there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Does Ravi Shankar claim enlightenment ? And he was doing TM for years, no ? Oh, no, ofcourse he didn't, he probably was doing something else even though he was Maharishi's student. Because if he did there you'd have one enlightened fellow from TM right there. This Ravi Shankar thing is mainly moodmaking; look into each others eyes and tell them you love them, hold each others hands and form a circle, blabla etcetc. The technique is far from what has been described as TM+advanced technique; it's just a simple pranayama, and Ravi is just a simple, but probably nice fellow that needs to do some serious sadhana. In a talkshow I watched in India he was asked how it felt to be a guru. He blushed intensely, denying he was a guru, the whole thing got very comical. The fellow abviously wants to be a guru, but does not have the credidentials. Nabby, from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/102304 :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Does Ravi Shankar claim enlightenment ? And he was doing TM for years, no ? Oh, no, ofcourse he didn't, he probably was doing something else even though he was Maharishi's student. Because if he did there you'd have one enlightened fellow from TM right there. This Ravi Shankar thing is mainly moodmaking; look into each others eyes and tell them you love them, hold each others hands and form a circle, blabla etcetc. The technique is far from what has been described as TM+advanced technique; it's just a simple pranayama, and Ravi is just a simple, but probably nice fellow that needs to do some serious sadhana. In a talkshow I watched in India he was asked how it felt to be a guru. He blushed intensely, denying he was a guru, the whole thing got very comical. The fellow abviously wants to be a guru, but does not have the credidentials. Nabby, from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/102304 :-) And, what are you tring to say ? That you are sick and obsessed, looking up quotes from years back - that you need professional help ? But we knew that already, Turq.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Nabs, I know SSRS quite well, he's a sat guru. You don't know him, so what you speak about him is simply your projections. But you are correct, he's the only guru that's come out of the TM movement. Enlightened people, but no guru's except him --- On Sat, 1/3/09, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:11 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Does Ravi Shankar claim enlightenment ? And he was doing TM for years, no ? Oh, no, ofcourse he didn't, he probably was doing something else even though he was Maharishi's student. Because if he did there you'd have one enlightened fellow from TM right there. This Ravi Shankar thing is mainly moodmaking; look into each others eyes and tell them you love them, hold each others hands and form a circle, blabla etcetc. The technique is far from what has been described as TM+advanced technique; it's just a simple pranayama, and Ravi is just a simple, but probably nice fellow that needs to do some serious sadhana. In a talkshow I watched in India he was asked how it felt to be a guru. He blushed intensely, denying he was a guru, the whole thing got very comical. The fellow abviously wants to be a guru, but does not have the credidentials. Nabby, from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/102304 :-) And, what are you tring to say ? That you are sick and obsessed, looking up quotes from years back - that you need professional help ? But we knew that already, Turq. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
glad you enjoyed it-- i agree that the transition to enlightenment occurs in the blink of an eye, and nothing is quite the same ever again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I apologize for my inability to snip and for posting on top instead of on the bottom, the more righteous way to reply. I can't snip because every word is masterful. Will go down in my book as one of the best ways of explaining it all. I don't want to detract from your statement and hope I don't in saying that Maharishi was speaking out of his own experience when talking about the time it takes to become enlightened. It takes but a second or less to become enlightened, or so it seems because you are transiting from a life in which there is time and a life in which there is only timelessness. You aren't take a journey. You're opening a door on a big wormhole in space that takes you from where you are to where you are. You don't go anywhere. You just see things, live things in a different way. Thank you so much, ED11 for this. I will cherish it. On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:12 PM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: yes-- agree with you completely here dr. pete. i grow tired and nauseated at the endless claims to measure or not measure enlightenment scientifically here on FFL. enlightenment is about a phase transition of consciousness, a radical, everything turns upside down, and inside out, shift in living and perceiving and thinking about the world. nothing about enlightenment can be verified by physiological measurements, or by transient experiences of witnessing. both are a total waste of time wrt actually experiencing enlightenment. enlightenment is not about transient experience or measurement, or CC or GC or UC. it is a way of living that once permanently established, takes the enlightened one on a journey of its own, wholly unpredictable and completely comprehensible. the enlightenment becomes real and the person who has become it, evaporates. this cannot be understood by having a fleeting experience of some tangible aspect of enlightenment, like ritam or witnessing or no thought samadhi. it must be lived permanently to be understood. and the only way for householders to get there quickly is through TM and TMSP. the reason the Maharishi set criteria for enlightenment was so that people would continue to practice TM and the TMSP, not so that people could be measured against this set of practically impossible criteria. HE JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO BECOME ENLIGHTENED. he knew that the quickest way was to do TM and TMSP, so he set out to place one hell of a lot of carrots into people's sticky consciousness (lol). there is no need nor any desire for the TMO to hold up some enlightened people as an attraction for TM. that would accomplish nothing. even if we study enlightened people under a microscope all it will show us is fragments and validate nothing, not the wholeness we are seeking. the Maharishi's sole purpose was to get us all doing TM and keep us doing TM until we passed through the doorway marked 'enlightenment', and kept on going. he knew many would fall by the wayside, for as consciousness expands, so does the ego, declaring itself to be the expander and knower of all things. only by continually, regularly and mechanically transcending with TM, and giving the ego nothing to hold onto will the practitioner be able to get out of his/her own way, gaining permanent enlightenment. the Maharishi knew that by introducing light into people's consciousness, many would grow uncomfortable with the mud being stirred up, and would quit meditating. others would get addicted to flashy experiences and leave the practice in search of more. still others would find new meaning in the religions of the world and quit TM. and others sadly would proclaim what they had accomplished solely of their own doing, and decry the Maharishi as the ego tripper, when it was in fact themselves who worshipped themselves, lost in their own reflection. so the Maharishi constantly sought to bring new angles to TM, in the hopes that it would keep people interested in continuing to do TM. and by continually doing TM, the goal would quickly be reached. of course the flip side of a teacher introducing different facets of his knowledge, is that the path for some becomes mistaken for the result. this is why at the core of what he brought out was the ceaseless emphasis on transcending through TM to quickly gain enlightenment. which brings up a point which i wrestled with continuously on this miraculous journey- what quickly means in this context. the Maharishi was always talking in terms of a few years and bingo! enlightenment would dawn. and yet all of us who continued TM went through decades of wading
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Jan 03 00:00:00 2009 End Date (UTC): Sat Jan 10 00:00:00 2009 119 messages as of (UTC) Sun Jan 04 00:08:13 2009 21 authfriend jst...@panix.com 13 I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com 9 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 9 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 8 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com 7 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 6 enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 5 ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com 4 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 3 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 3 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 2 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com 2 gullible fool ffl...@yahoo.com 2 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 Stu buttspli...@gmail.com 2 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 2 Patrick Gillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 2 Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com 2 BillyG. wg...@yahoo.com 1 yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com 1 shempmcgurk shempmcg...@netscape.net 1 lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 1 dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 1 boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com 1 bob_brigante no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 bettyblue109 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Richard Williams willy...@yahoo.com 1 Nelson nelsonriddle2...@yahoo.com 1 John jr_...@yahoo.com 1 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 1 Richard J. Williams willy...@yahoo.com Posters: 32 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'As Moon Wanes/Israelis Wacks'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: I think this is a conspiracy to start WW III to help with the global economic situation. That would tell you how dumb the powers at be are. We could wind up with nuclear winters or no life on earth. But the RAND think tank recommended WW III as a way to sidestep a great depression. snip WW III as a means to stimulate the global economy ? - how wasteful, and boring. For decades, I've been on the lookout for the emergence of a brilliant person who formulates an economic system that doesn't use fear to stimulate economic activity.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
---.E. has to be accompanied by the criteria set forth by MMY; otherwise claimants can easily be duped. For starters, continuous Inner Light during the sleep state. Neo-Advaitins have nothing to point to except Being. This is a result of the 3-rd eye not being open, otherwise, the Inner Light would be present, continually. FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: glad you enjoyed it-- i agree that the transition to enlightenment occurs in the blink of an eye, and nothing is quite the same ever again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal L.Shaddai@ wrote: I apologize for my inability to snip and for posting on top instead of on the bottom, the more righteous way to reply. I can't snip because every word is masterful. Will go down in my book as one of the best ways of explaining it all. I don't want to detract from your statement and hope I don't in saying that Maharishi was speaking out of his own experience when talking about the time it takes to become enlightened. It takes but a second or less to become enlightened, or so it seems because you are transiting from a life in which there is time and a life in which there is only timelessness. You aren't take a journey. You're opening a door on a big wormhole in space that takes you from where you are to where you are. You don't go anywhere. You just see things, live things in a different way. Thank you so much, ED11 for this. I will cherish it. On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:12 PM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: yes-- agree with you completely here dr. pete. i grow tired and nauseated at the endless claims to measure or not measure enlightenment scientifically here on FFL. enlightenment is about a phase transition of consciousness, a radical, everything turns upside down, and inside out, shift in living and perceiving and thinking about the world. nothing about enlightenment can be verified by physiological measurements, or by transient experiences of witnessing. both are a total waste of time wrt actually experiencing enlightenment. enlightenment is not about transient experience or measurement, or CC or GC or UC. it is a way of living that once permanently established, takes the enlightened one on a journey of its own, wholly unpredictable and completely comprehensible. the enlightenment becomes real and the person who has become it, evaporates. this cannot be understood by having a fleeting experience of some tangible aspect of enlightenment, like ritam or witnessing or no thought samadhi. it must be lived permanently to be understood. and the only way for householders to get there quickly is through TM and TMSP. the reason the Maharishi set criteria for enlightenment was so that people would continue to practice TM and the TMSP, not so that people could be measured against this set of practically impossible criteria. HE JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO BECOME ENLIGHTENED. he knew that the quickest way was to do TM and TMSP, so he set out to place one hell of a lot of carrots into people's sticky consciousness (lol). there is no need nor any desire for the TMO to hold up some enlightened people as an attraction for TM. that would accomplish nothing. even if we study enlightened people under a microscope all it will show us is fragments and validate nothing, not the wholeness we are seeking. the Maharishi's sole purpose was to get us all doing TM and keep us doing TM until we passed through the doorway marked 'enlightenment', and kept on going. he knew many would fall by the wayside, for as consciousness expands, so does the ego, declaring itself to be the expander and knower of all things. only by continually, regularly and mechanically transcending with TM, and giving the ego nothing to hold onto will the practitioner be able to get out of his/her own way, gaining permanent enlightenment. the Maharishi knew that by introducing light into people's consciousness, many would grow uncomfortable with the mud being stirred up, and would quit meditating. others would get addicted to flashy experiences and leave the practice in search of more. still others would find new meaning in the religions of the world and quit TM. and others sadly would proclaim what they had accomplished solely of their own doing, and decry the Maharishi as the ego tripper, when it was in fact themselves who worshipped themselves, lost in their own reflection. so the Maharishi constantly sought to bring new angles to TM, in the hopes that it would keep people interested in continuing to do TM. and by continually doing TM, the goal would quickly be reached. of course the flip side of a teacher introducing
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
Relevant thread, canvassing around as to why folks are not in the dome meditating, most often say they `like' meditating at home instead of the domes. That then breaks down, to that there is too much sleeping in the domes which dulls the experience, or there are too many people bad from the old TM-movement and therefore the feeling is bad in there and 3) there is a comunalenment in the group that the administration by their chs keeping it from happening. Mostly folks in the larger meditating community would rather meditate at home and have a better experience than going up on campus. The problem comes up, that TM-movement has a moral problem of trust that keeps folks away. `Run in to this a lot in asking around. That is the practical reality in FF. Probably won't improve until the TM-org deals with it. The moral problem. They are kind of in the hole with their past. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Since you're using an appropriate balance of attention then you don't have an issue, unless of course as you say, you're actually tired. So actually it sounds like your experience DOES jive with what I'm describing. And I also suspect if you were on IA you wouldn't be falling asleep as you wouldn't be as tired from the workaday routine. In any event torpor is a common deficit in TM, just not for you, for whatever reason. Consider yourself lucky I guess. On Jan 2, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote: Maharishi's term for transcendental is bhava-tita: beyond causal being or beyond moods. A more popular term is para. MMY defines transcending in his yoga-sutra translation as nirodha (his words: yoga is bringing transcending to the activity of the mind. YS 1:2) IME many TM practitioners end up succumbing to torpor: thus all the reports of people sleeping in the dome. The Patanjali tradition warns of this as what happens rather than going beyond, para, one instead just settles down into a thought-free state he calls sthiti. Sthiti has some tamasic qualities and so it's easy to just lull into that state, which can feel, experientially like a bare one-pointedness, but easily devolves into torpor and then sleep. The reason why so many TMers fall asleep is simple: they've turned the marketing description effortless into a mood-making dogma: they're afraid to use any mindfulness and balanced attention because of it. When attention becomes to lax, one falls into the tamasic aspect of sthiti, and they fall asleep. The stress at the level of the nervous system excuse is BS. It's a well-known phenomenon. Vaj, this explanation sounds good to my intellect, but it doesn't jibe with my experience. When I do the TM-Sidhis, I'm using the mindfulness and balanced attention you call for immediately above, yet I still get drowsy when I do the practice in the afternoon. In my experience, sleepitations are a function of being genuinely tired, not because I'm caught in some torpor of thought-free awareness.
[FairfieldLife] Spiritually Invincible America
FFL- Om http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies.html
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I apologize for my inability to snip and for posting on top instead of on the bottom, the more righteous way to reply. I can't snip because every word is masterful. Will go down in my book as one of the best ways of explaining it all. I don't want to detract from your statement and hope I don't in saying that Maharishi was speaking out of his own experience when talking about the time it takes to become enlightened. It takes but a second or less to become enlightened, or so it seems because you are transiting from a life in which there is time and a life in which there is only timelessness. You aren't take a journey. You're opening a door on a big wormhole in space that takes you from where you are to where you are. You don't go anywhere. You just see things, live things in a different way. Thank you so much, ED11 for this. I will cherish it. Likewise, ED11. Shaddai, No matter how much time passes, MMY's SCI principles ring true. (At least for the folks into KISS anyway.) MMY said, The range of creative intelligence is from here to here. So obviously there's no place to go. If I could go, I'd hop a bus to there. So here it is: the clown bus, the crazy passengers and the fun ride (knowledge, knower and the process of knowing) beautifully woven together as one. Innocently pull one tread in one amazing moment of just be and the mistake of intellect instantly unravels. MMY wasn't jiving us when he said the concept of a path is for the ignorant. So leave or stay on the bus, whatever, I'm just glad MMY provided such a glorious map to just be nowhere.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritually Invincible America the World
The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. FFL- Om http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Relevant thread, canvassing around as to why folks are not in the dome meditating, most often say they `like' meditating at home instead of the domes. That then breaks down, to that there is too much sleeping in the domes which dulls the experience, or there are too many people bad from the old TM-movement and therefore the feeling is bad in there and 3) there is a comunalenment in the group that the administration by their chs keeping it from happening. How far is the TMO on the path of tracking who goes to the domes, and when ? The IA stipend recipients when entering the dome swipe their badge in a scanner, no ? Does the TSR community swipe their badge, as well ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
canvassing around as to why folks are not in the dome meditating, most often say they `like' meditating at home instead of the domes. That then breaks down, to that there is too much sleeping in the domes which dulls the experience, or there are too many people bad from the old TM-movement and therefore the feeling is bad in there and 3) there is a comunal elenment in the group that the administration by their characters keeping it from happening. How far is the TMO on the path of tracking who goes to the domes, and when ? The IA stipend recipients when entering the dome swipe their badge in a scanner, no ? Does the TSR community swipe their badge, as well ? TSR, town super-radiance, that's the folks off-campus who might go to the domes, at the margin. Folks taking the stipend are down to a couple hundred, who take the stipend as 'paid meditators' to be in the domes regularly. About a thousand pundits depending. Some faculty and staff, and some hundreds of students at a given time. And some few hundred of TSR types who would go. That gets the number now. Exclude the 'pundit'/pujaris here on visas, the TM-movement is down to some hundreds of folks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I can only assume Creme is referring to the space brothers, George Clinton and his Parliament-Funkadelic Thang. Otherwise it he would sound completely nuts. curtis, this is not the time to freak out. Take a deep breath, relax. And better still; have a checking by a disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. As a former representative of MMY, I have to say that he would not be happy about calling a person qualified to administer the 30 points of checking a disciple. You do have a point here. I should have said student of Maharishi. I am a disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. It's always a blast to be checked by someone who remembers the notes, and has them memorized enough to sound natural when you are repeating them. There is nothing wrong with sleeping...this happened a lot to me, when I first started with the CD's, both 'Holysync' and the one I mentioned in another post, today. I would listen to the CD, and find it impossible to 'Stay Awake' for more than a few minutes into it...but after a while, I became more and more able to 'Witness' and remain awake, until the CD finished... So, I believe this to be a good 'Adjunct to Transcendental Meditation and the TM=Sidhi Programee OM NAMAH SHIVAiya. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: -snip- He saved us from confusion, with a KISS. But dang, if that ain't just about impossible to do for folks who get off on nitpicking and until nothing remains of innocence. the ones getting off on nitpicking aren't doing it to clarify their focus on enlightenment. they are doing it because they have lost the ability to transcend regularly and all they have left are the arguments of minds cemented in place by ego.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritually Invincible America the Worl
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 6:56 PM, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.comwrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. FFL- Om http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies.html Dammit. We need another Taste of Utopia, only with 10,000 flyers and lasting for a year, not a bit more than a week like a quarter century ago. I'd be willing to get a vastu house in VC and sponsor (including stipend better then the TMO pays, for sure) 4 more people to join me if we could get the 10,000 together. I'd hire a cook to go to Everybodys and make us much better means than Annupura. Considering the #1 (Unity and beyond) experiences that we're experiencing now, imagine what each of us would experience on a 10,000 course!Damn our careers. Say bye to our families for a year. What you'd be looking at when you return home is beyond words. The only thing I'd require is a current Dome badge.
[FairfieldLife] 'Did George 'Do It' on purpose?...
Is George just rebeling against his father, for all of this... Not only with the invasion of Iraq... But, also bringing down the economy. Maybe he wanted to 'Stick It' to the Rich. The Rich are losing more in this collapse than anyone. Maybe he's helping in 'The Plan'... That the 'Meek Shall Inherit the Earth'... Thanks George. You're 'Quite the Dude'... R.G.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:12 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions Rick, I have no problem with this. My point was, and I consider the point valid, there is NOT ONE PERSON whom the *TM movement* can point to and say, This person is enlightened. We 'certify' that this person is enlightened, and because we believe in validating what we say with science, you can take this person to the labs and test them as an *example* of enlightenment. One exception to this is Fred Travis's research. Fred has tested many people who claim to have permanent witnessing, Unity experiences, etc. He publishes his research, but the individuals' names are not released. So I think in a roundabout way, the TMO does acknowledge that many people are experiencing symptoms of enlightenment, but Maharishi was never into certifying these people (with the possible exception of Tony Nader) and none of the current TMO administration feel qualified to certify them.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:36 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Rick Archer wrote: 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation - no witnesses - so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Spiritually Invincible America
On Jan 3, 2009, at 6:53 PM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: FFL- Om http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies.html Why are some in red and some in green? Is that in the spirit of Christmas? Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:55 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions Even given the problems associated with certifying enlightenment, I still have to believe that a trad- ition like this in which it is permitted to announce your enlightened is more likely to actually produce enlightenment than a tradition in which announcing the good news may result in you being expelled and declared a heretic. You may be right, and as a consequence, many in the TMO who wake up decide it's time for them to leave. As I said, it's an incubator. Incubators get a little crowded once you've hatched.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritually Invincible America the World
On Jan 3, 2009, at 6:56 PM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. Doug, it may just be me, but you know, I think we've heard this before, somewhere. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stu Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? As MMY said to a friend of mine, allegedly with tears in his eyes, before giving him the boot: You're getting too independent, and I can't stand it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:02 PM, mainstream20016 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Relevant thread, canvassing around as to why folks are not in the dome meditating, most often say they `like' meditating at home instead of the domes. That then breaks down, to that there is too much sleeping in the domes which dulls the experience, or there are too many people bad from the old TM-movement and therefore the feeling is bad in there and 3) there is a comunalenment in the group that the administration by their chs keeping it from happening. How far is the TMO on the path of tracking who goes to the domes, and when ? The IA stipend recipients when entering the dome swipe their badge in a scanner, no ? Oh, no, a scanner?? Just when you thought you'd heard everything! That's hilarious, main. You just provided a whole lot of free laughs-- Thanks! Does the TSR community swipe their badge, as well ? Oh, yeah, by all means, we need all the sordid details. :) Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] An ecumenical MUM?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of I am the eternal Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:47 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] An ecumenical MUM? There is a reason, beyond the fact that Maharishi wanted to bring us a Vedic society, that Maharishi set us up with a simple speaking reclused king and princes. I am just starting to cognize the reason. Part of it I'm sure has to do with the obvious: they're not making any Maharishi clones these days. If we got someone as charismatic as Maharishi we'd get a new cult of personality and would be a new and different movement. Good point. Maharishi appreciated the fact that his more charismatic teachers brought in a lot of initiations, but they made him a bit nervous, especially if they displayed much independence in their personalities. The moment folks like Deepak, Jerry Jarvis, etc., began show signs of thinking for themselves, they got the boot.
RE: [FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of yifuxero Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:41 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] [was Re: Spiritual Distractions] enlightenment is here and now ---.E. has to be accompanied by the criteria set forth by MMY; otherwise claimants can easily be duped. For starters, continuous Inner Light during the sleep state. Neo-Advaitins have nothing to point to except Being. This is a result of the 3-rd eye not being open, otherwise, the Inner Light would be present, continually. I don't recall MMY ever saying inner light during sleep. He said pure consciousness 24/7, including sleep.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal To give y'all hope, we have a verified saint in Austin, TX (where else but where God has Her vacation home?). I've met the saint on a number of occasions. Here He is on Youtube giving darshan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atlMK8uqCU
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Exclude the 'pundit'/pujaris here on visas, the TM-movement is down to some hundreds of folks. What, are they all on disability with knee and back injuries or what? Come on, you can't honestly tell me that after 20, 30 or 40 years of doing the Siddhis you're not going to develop repetitive motion injuries. I don't think the human physiology was meant to hop, what goes up, must come down and it looks like no one in a single lifetime of practicing the Siddhis is ever going to actually fly, that's a lot of landing on the rear, I don't see a lot of old Siddhas, at what age are you told to stop?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Who would have thunk it? Willie N. Sat guru!!! --- On Sat, 1/3/09, I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com wrote: From: I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 9:40 PM On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal To give y'all hope, we have a verified saint in Austin, TX (where else but where God has Her vacation home?). I've met the saint on a number of occasions. Here He is on Youtube giving darshan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atlMK8uqCU
