[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 Having so easily bent Barry to my will, I'm happy
 to respond to his questions:

Wow. Nearly 70 years old, has meditated using
the fastest, most effective method of achieving
enlightenment on the planet for more than 30 
years, and this is how petty she still is.   :-)

And all for no reason. As she well knows, I've 
not been trying to not mention her name for some
time now. It's just that sometimes I *like* to
make oblique references to her, because it makes
so crazy she pulls stunts like this one. :-)

But thanks for your answers. They were as 
evasive and as lie of omission as I expected
them to be. Thanks for even admitting in your
post that you see nothing wrong with this.

However, let's deal with a possible lie of 
commission. Why is it that it is only *lately*
that you have claimed never to have knelt during
your TM instruction?

I did a quick check of a.m.t., and you never 
mentioned that, even when it would have been
more than relevant, when you were trying to
prove Andrew Skolnick wrong. Given the vehe-
mence and the *nitpicking* that you exhibited
in that quest (example below):

 This was in response (as I've already explained) to an analogy
 [of Andrew's] that falsely suggested TMers kneel *throughout* 
 the puja.
 
 By the time the student is invited to kneel, the teacher is no
 longer performing the puja.  The puja is finished.
 
 If this insistence of Andrew's that I lied in the above quote
 isn't a case of torturing and stretching words upon a rack, I
 don't know what is.

WHY should we believe that you chose never to
mention it then, but choose to mention it now?

Isn't it more likely that you're LYING about
not having knelt yourself?

That, after all, is what you would suggest about
me if I made such a claim after *15 years* of never
having mentioned it.

I think we all know that you are so invested in 
your I never lie image that you will never ADMIT
to having done this, even if you did, but if you
did lie, YOU know it, and know that it was FAR more
than the lies of omission that you justify to 
yourself every day. 

So I'll just allow the lurkers to decide for them-
selves whether the person who could not bring her-
self to answer a few simple questions without 
becoming hysterical and (in her view) bending the
questioner to her will would have passed up an
opportunity to do the same thing with the person
who had created the Junkyard Dog website about
her. Saying that YOU had never knelt would have
dealt a death blow to some of Andrew's arguments
back then, and YOU NEVER DEALT IT.

Could it be because it never happened?

I'll allow the lurkers here to decide for them-
selves. They know that YOU won't ever tell them the
full truth, because as you stated below, you have no
problem with lies of omission. I think we can infer
from that that you have few problems with lies of
commision, either.


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 snip
  Unless (light bulb going on over my head!)
  I just repost the questions below, spelling
  out in no uncertain terms exactly WHO the
  TM True Believer I am posing the questions
  to is.
 
 Yes! Very good, Barry. Have a biscuit.
 
  Then JUDY STEIN would have to make up a whole 
  new set of excuses to avoid them.  :-)  :-)  :-)
 
 (You didn't have to keep typing my full name in 
 caps, though. Just one Judy would have been
 sufficient to register on Yahoo as a Gotta-Get-
 Judy post. But it's OK; we can now add the all-
 caps to the collection of recent posts of yours
 in which you SHOUT repeatedly.)
 
   Take yesterday. One JUDY STEIN actually
   tried to make the case that the bowing down in
   the TM puja was not in any way religious or dir-
   ected to religious figures,
 
 Um, no, that isn't the case I made. What I said was
 that it depends on the person doing the kneeling
 what it means.
 
  even when JUDY STEIN 
   *knows* the translation of the words that the 
   action of bowing down follows:
 
 Makes no difference what the words mean if the
 person doing the kneeling doesn't understand the
 language.
 
   To the Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the 
   Creator, to Vashishtha, to Shakti and his son 
   Parashar, To Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great 
   Gaudapada, to Govinda, ruler among the yogis, 
   to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, to his 
   disciples Padma Pada and Hasta Malaka And 
   Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, 
   to the tradition of our Master, I bow down.
   
   To the abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, 
   Smritis and Puranas, to the abode of kindness, 
   to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, 
   emancipator of the world, I bow down.
   
   To Shankaracharya the redeemer, hailed as Krishna 
   and Badarayana, to the commentator of the Brahma 
   Sutras, I bow down.
   
   To the glory of the Lord I bow down again and 
   again, at whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray 
   for perfection day and 

[FairfieldLife] Molly R.I.P.

[raunchydog]

please pass this on.

Molly Ann Hermenia Clark Atkinson 

passed away peacefully at about 8:45pm this evening, Friday 4/17/2009, at the 
UI Hospital.

She had close friends in the room with her when she passed.

At approximately 8pm Fr. Tom Miller administered Holy Unction and Last Rites 
with a group of us in attendance around Molly's bed.

Evan and Willow arrive at about 8:30am tomorrow, Saturday, and will be here for 
some days.

Art

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Robert]

 (snip)
 If Maharishi had invented Catholicism, he would have tried to get it
 into the schools by saying, The rosary is a recitation of two simple
 prayers to the Mother of Jesus and to God the Father, but you don't have
 to believe that they exist -- just say the words as we teach  you to
 intone and pronounce them, and your evolution will be assured.  No
 belief in saying the rosary is required for the practice to succeed.
 
 TM is marketed exactly like that.
 (snip)
I'm not at all sure that recitation of the rosary is anything like TM.
The recitation of the rosary, is more like what the 'Krisha's people do, with 
their rosary...
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama, Hare Ram, Ram, Ram...
Chanting the rosary of the Krisha's exactly 108 times...

In both cases, there is the mind held on both the level of faith, and the level 
of intellect.
The faith is that reciting these prayers will bring results, by communing with 
God.
The intellect is involved with the ideas and the concepts of the prayers.

TM does not depend on faith or intellectualization of thinking the mantra...
Just the opposite: the mantra is regarded as a meaningless sound, which is used 
to transcend and go within.
Going within consciousness, within one's own consciousness, is not a religious 
thing.
It is a spiritual thing.
Maharishi intention was to spiritually regenerate the world...
The is the reason the Beatles were attracted to him and have recently helped to 
continue to spread the message of spiritualization.
Like attracted to like.

TM is as simple of a technique as you can get, and most suitable for children 
to learn as part of the educational process.
We have seen what the lack of TM has produced, while all the rosary's have been 
going on for many rounds of 108.
R.G.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Excerpts from the *2003* attempt to teach TM in schools

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
 In Barry's limited imagination, there's only *one*
 way to read the Laws of Nature--the Will of God,
 and that is as the Will of God.

Natural Law is the Will of God, it's the same thing - Maharishi 2004

 

[FairfieldLife] Things to remember next time Judy says I never lie

[TurquoiseB]

The most important thing to remember when she says
this is *her definition of what lying is*. That is:

Technically you could call it a 'lie', but...

The important thing to remember is the but. 

For Judy, the but seems always to be defined as 
...but lies are OK if they promote TM, or ...but 
lies are OK if they help to perpetuate the image of 
myself I am trying to promote, or ...but lies are 
OK if they help to 'prove' that I was RIGHT and 
someone else was WRONG.

The primary example of this Steinian Definition Of 
Non-Lying is in the following exchange:

   JUDY STEIN is ON RECORD as supporting
   *withholding* the translation of the puja
   from potential TM students taught as part
   of the David Lynch Foundation. JUDY STEIN was quite
   strong about it. I would love to hear JUDY STEIN
   justify that, and why it cannot be perceived
   as a lie of omission, an attempt to obscure
   and *hide* the real nature of the way that
   TM is taught.

 Technically you could call it a lie of omission, but
 the reason for it is that (a) it's not necessary for
 the person to learn TM, and (b) it would be misused by
 TM critics to try to convince people they were learning
 a religious practice.

In other words, it's **OK** to utilize a lie of 
omission (even though it is technically a lie),
as long as 1) it helps a person to start TM, and
2) it does not provide ammunition to 'TM critics'
who would 'misuse' it to tell the part of the truth
that Judy doesn't want told.

Another example, in response to Curtis:

  If they want to use the version of imagination you are
  proposing and see the puja as non religious, let 'em.
  But let's not withhold the information they need to make
  their own best choice.
 
 TM is presented in a way that encourages people to
 think of it as nonreligious. It tends to promote the
 nonreligious choice.

Again, Judy is on the side of *withholding information*
as long as it helps to encourage people to think of
TM as nonreligious. Again she *justifies* the use of 
a lie of omission. That's some definition of truth 
she's got, right?  :-)

In the followup paragraph to the technically admission
above, Judy defends the right of TM Teachers to say 
things that are *completely contradictory to their own
personal beliefs and knowledge*:

 *Teaching* it may be religious to the person doing
 the teaching, but that doesn't mean it's being learned
 as a religious practice.

In other words, even though the TM Teachers *know* the
words of the puja, and who it is *they* are bowing down to,
and consider it a religious practice *themselves*, it's
**OK** for them to say that it is nonreligous when talk-
ing to other people and promoting TM.

She follows up on this by claiming, essentially, that
a person in ignorance of the real meaning of the puja
should be kept in ignorance:

   ...even when JUDY STEIN
   *knows* the translation of the words that the
   action of bowing down follows:

 Makes no difference what the words mean if the
 person doing the kneeling doesn't understand the
 language.

In this example, Judy makes the case for lying by 
omission NOT for TM Teachers, but for HERSELF. In
her view, if *she* knows the meaning of the TM puja and 
the person she is addressing does not, it's not a lie 
for her to not mention that meaning.

Finally, Judy defends not only hypocrisy but deviousness
and duplicity on the part of the TM movement in statements 
like these:

 Yeah, I suspect it's [sanitizing the tm.org website
 to remove any past articles or links that reveal the
 TMO's religious nature] because the TMO intends to teach
 TM to the Lynch students without any of the frills
 that could be construed as religious or magical.

It's **OK** in Judy's view to pretend that the past never 
happened *because the TMO has decided to sell TM without
frills now*. How honest of her to believe this. Another
example:

   While JUDY STEIN Is at it, I'd like to hear JUDY STEIN
   justify or rationalize the TM Rajas *NOT*
   wearing their *normal* garb, the robes and
   crowns that they each spent a million dollars
   for the right to wear, at the recent concert.

 I imagine it's because they look pretty ridiculous
 in robes and crowns, and the TMO wants to look
 very serious and respectable.

Judy feels that it's **OK** to conceal one's normal way
of life to look very serious and respectable. 

Now I ask you...if she is willing to say that it's OK 
for the Rajas to do this, what is it OK for **HER** to
do to look serious and respectable? Are technical
lies of omission OK for Judy? Well, she's just said that
they are. So, given that, are technical lies of com-
mission OK for her as long as they follow the two 
rules of the Steinian Definition Of Non-Lying: 

For Judy Stein, a lie is OK as long as it:

1) helps a person to start TM, and

2) does not provide ammunition to 'TM critics' who would 
'misuse' it to tell the part of the truth that Judy 
doesn't want told.

THIS is essentially what she has said in recent 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 john_youe...@... wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote:
  
   He speaks very directly about the kind of issues that some people
 are concerned about here, is TM a religion, what is the relationship
 with Hinduism, does a TM teacher have to represent the tradition all the
 time 24/7 etc. currently repeating often on the Maharishi Channel and
 you can find your time on the schedule.
  
   www.maharishichannel.in
 
  The schedule doesn't say which of the five channels any
  particular program is on. I'd watch it only if it were
  on Channel 3, because I have no intention of installing
  the plug-in.
 
  But I'd really be interested in hearing what he has to
  say. Any clues what channel it's being shown on?
 
 
 I'm in the same boat. I looked there a few weeks ago, but
 I wouldn't install the plugin either
 
 JohnY


I did install the Octoshape thingie:

x...@xxx-desktop:~/Asiakirjat/octoshape$ ./OctoshapeClient -url:Ch.3_high.tv

IMO, the picture quality is almost stunning!

[FairfieldLife] 'Eloheim Channeling: Change is Coming'

[Robert]

http://www.youtube.com/user/eloheimchannel


  

[FairfieldLife] Heaven on Earth

[Kirk]

Is like internet connection which is only as fast as the slowest link.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:
 
 I did install the Octoshape thingie:
 
 x...@xxx-desktop:~/Asiakirjat/octoshape$ ./OctoshapeClient -url:Ch.3_high.tv
 
 IMO, the picture quality is almost stunning!


Even Full Screen is this good:

http://www.gypsii.com/place.cgi?op=viewid=526561

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[Vaj]

On Apr 19, 2009, at 10:06 PM, bob_brigante wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukr...@... wrote:


He speaks very directly about the kind of issues that some people  
are concerned about here, is TM a religion, what is the  
relationship with Hinduism, does a TM teacher have to represent  
the tradition all the time 24/7 etc. currently repeating often on  
the Maharishi Channel and you can find your time on the schedule.


www.maharishichannel.in



*

King Tony spoke very well, saying TM is not Hinduism, because  
religion is a belief system, and we work from experience only, no  
belief required -- truly Vedic Science.



Actually most of the experiences in TM are coached. The Pure  
Consciousness fabrication is the most obvious and the most prominent.  
So what we really have with the TM cult and mythos is indentured  
delusion. It's only in the later years of the cult that Mahesh's  
underling intent and motivation became clear: it's a money-making and  
power scheme, hobbled together with pseudo-vedanta a la tantra.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
   
Hey Nabs, 
 
On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that all these predictions are 
going to
come true?
   
   10
   
   Heaven will walk on earth, in this generation
   - Maharishi
  
  
  According to Benjamin Creme, Maitreya arrived in London in 1977 after 
  having created a Mahavirupta-body in the Himalayas, two years after 
  Maharishi made His historic proclamation on Lake Lucerne; The Dawn of the 
  Age of Enlightenment.
  
  The arrival of Maitreya in a physical body, for the first time in 100.000 
  years on this planet is perhaps the most far-reaching effects of the work 
  of Maharishi; the most remarkable Master of Masters mankind has seen since 
  Brahmananda Saraswathi.
 
 
 
 Since the early 80s, Benjamin Creme has been singing Any Day Now (Maitreya 
 will be reveal himself very publicly).  I will make a prediction - Benjamin 
 Creme will die before Maitreya appears in the flesh.

Maitreya are in flesh already since 1977. The first interview has simply not 
happened yet. And it won't before mankind is ready. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maya nut changes lives while aiding the rain forest

[Vaj]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:46 AM, shempmcgurk wrote:


Sometimes you feel like a nut
Sometimes you don't.



A Maya nut. If that's not a perfect description of some of the  
members of this list, I don't know what is. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 4:32 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Hey Nabs, 
  
  On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that all these predictions are going
 to
  come true?
 
 10.
 Well, if you're 100% certain, there's no point in asking what you'll say or
 do if they don't come true. So please just keep us posted. Let us know if
 and when something actually happens, and if it doesn't happen on schedule,
 let us know the reason for the delay.

I certainly will, and I can assure you nothing is delayed. But the timing of 
the Appearance must happen according cosmic law.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  Having so easily bent Barry to my will, I'm happy
  to respond to his questions:
 
 Wow. Nearly 70 years old, has meditated using
 the fastest, most effective method of achieving
 enlightenment on the planet for more than 30 
 years, and this is how petty she still is.   :-)

Barry *really* can't stand being laughed at.

snip
 WHY should we believe that you chose never to
 mention it then, but choose to mention it now?

The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
when he claims I never mentioned it then?

March 28, 1998, me in response to Andrew Skolnick:

-
 There is no conceivable way that Judy cannot know
 that her statement is false. It's widely known that
 TM teachers invite all initiates to kneel down
 before the photo of Maharishi's deceased teacher.
 The student invariably does. 

Andrew here has to resort to distorting the context
of my response, as well as employing fractional truths
and blatant  inaccuracies, in order to claim what I
said is false. 

The invitation to kneel doesn't come till the end of
the ceremony, and BY NO MEANS does the student
invariably kneel. 

We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
I didn't.  There's no pressure to do so.  Some who had
more recently learned TM said there hadn't even been
an *invitation* to kneel.
- 

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/f5e9ccef04333bf4

http://tinyurl.com/cahj7s

And of course, as Barry knows, I've mentioned it
here as well.

Post #114696, Sept. 19, 2006, me to Barry (context
was questions TM teachers are asked and the lies
they allegedly tell in response):

-
 -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to
 kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER,
 in the explicit instructions given to me and other
 TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we
 were epxlicitly told to never teach the person
 UNLESS they knelt.

Never heard this asked either. However, when I
learned, I did not kneel and was taught anyway,
and I know many others for whom that was the case.
-

For the record, on alt.m.t there had been several
previous discussions of kneeling at which a number
of TMers said they hadn't knelt, and one TM teacher
said none of his students had ever knelt at his
invitation. And in the thread I quoted, Lawson had
already told Andrew that *he* hadn't knelt.

Barry's right when he points out below that TMers
saying they hadn't knelt would have dealt a death
blow to Andrew's argument. It did. He let it drop
(without, of course, acknowledging he'd been wrong
or apologizing to me) and changed the subject.

I'll leave in the rest of Barry's furious attack
and allow readers to contemplate why being laughed
at makes him so agitated that he missed the post I
quoted above, then accuses me of lying on the basis
of his own incompetence. (Note that I'm giving him
the benefit of the doubt here. It's entirely
possible he *did* see the post I quoted and decided
to lie about it.)

 Isn't it more likely that you're LYING about
 not having knelt yourself?
 
 That, after all, is what you would suggest about
 me if I made such a claim after *15 years* of never
 having mentioned it.
 
 I think we all know that you are so invested in 
 your I never lie image that you will never ADMIT
 to having done this, even if you did, but if you
 did lie, YOU know it, and know that it was FAR more
 than the lies of omission that you justify to 
 yourself every day. 
 
 So I'll just allow the lurkers to decide for them-
 selves whether the person who could not bring her-
 self to answer a few simple questions without 
 becoming hysterical and (in her view) bending the
 questioner to her will would have passed up an
 opportunity to do the same thing with the person
 who had created the Junkyard Dog website about
 her. Saying that YOU had never knelt would have
 dealt a death blow to some of Andrew's arguments
 back then, and YOU NEVER DEALT IT.
 
 Could it be because it never happened?
 
 I'll allow the lurkers here to decide for them-
 selves. They know that YOU won't ever tell them the
 full truth, because as you stated below, you have no
 problem with lies of omission. I think we can infer
 from that that you have few problems with lies of
 commision, either.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  WHY should we believe that you chose never to
  mention it then, but choose to mention it now?
 
 The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
 when he claims I never mentioned it then?
 
 March 28, 1998, me in response to Andrew Skolnick:
 
 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/f5e9ccef04333bf4
 
 http://tinyurl.com/cahj7s

If that's so, I apologize.

 And of course, as Barry knows, I've mentioned it
 here as well.

As should be fairly OBVIOUS, I *didn't* know
that. Duh.

You seem to believe that I read your posts with 
the same degree of obsession that you read mine. 
T'ain't true. In fact, there have been long 
periods of time in which I never read your posts
at all. 

So no, I did NOT know this. If I had, I doubt
I would have brought it up. 

As I mentioned earlier, I did a quick search
of Google and did not find your mention of I
didn't above. Mea culpa. But not *much* culpa.  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Tat Wala Baba - What the Saints do in the forest

[do.rflex]

TAT WALA BABA: We are sitting in the forest, and when we are sitting in the 
forest we have some purpose to perform, and with that we are sitting. If some 
seeker comes and asks, fine. We give advice. Otherwise, we don't have much 
time. We are in the forest, and we are in the forest for some purpose. But, if 
some seeker comes, fine. His doubts are cleared and removed.

Student: Does he think that his way of life helps the rest of mankind or only 
him?

TWB: All these saints meditating and established in the Self, they are
the basis for all this running of the entire universe, and they are the basis 
of the whole thing, and not for themselves alone. Their good
vibrations are influencing societies for their advancement. 

Student: Like a powerhouse?

TWB: Like a powerhouse. The powerhouse is in Delhi and the bulb is
shining here. It is not the bulb that is shining. It's the power from
the powerhouse. 

It is the saints established in their Self who are infusing life into the whole 
universe. And, it is they who have found Smriti Purananam (Vedic codes of 
behavior). It is they who have found the essentials, the realities of life, and 
have taught to the world various conducts of living; ways of realization of the 
Self, ways of realization of God, and all these higher states of life. It is 
they who have brought wisdom home to the world, and they are at the basis of 
all the increasing prosperity of the world through their vibrations and
through their attainment.

Student: How much sleep does he require?

TWB: If I sleep what will happen to the world? Asleep and awake - the
sleep and awake is the nature of the mind. Sometimes the mind sleeps,
sometimes it is awake. If I sleep, the whole basis of the world would be 
sleeping and then there will be left nothing. So, I don't sleep. If
someone sleeps it is the mind. The Self doesn't sleep. All these states of 
waking, dreaming; they belong to the mind. They are not the state of the Self. 
And, if you speak of my sleeping, I don't sleep because the Self doesn't sleep. 
If the Self sleeps then the whole world would go into sleep.

~~EXCERPT: Tat Wale Baba lecture to a 60's Teacher Training Course in India 
More at link: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com/msg117511.html

[thanks to Bob Brigante]

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   WHY should we believe that you chose never to
   mention it then, but choose to mention it now?
  
  The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
  when he claims I never mentioned it then?
  
  March 28, 1998, me in response to Andrew Skolnick:
  
  http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/f5e9ccef04333bf4
  
  http://tinyurl.com/cahj7s
 
 If that's so, I apologize.

Thank you. Not sure why the if, though, when I gave
you the URL so you could check it out for yourself.

  And of course, as Barry knows, I've mentioned it
  here as well.
 
 As should be fairly OBVIOUS, I *didn't* know
 that. Duh.

Not obvious at all. Why would you go to all the
trouble of running off to Google to search alt.m.t
if you hadn't looked here first? After all, this is
where the discussion was taking place. It would
have been so much more effective if you could have
found me on FFL talking about kneeling without
mentioning that I hadn't knelt.

So I don't believe you. I think you *did* search
here and found to your disappointment that I *had*
mentioned not kneeling, so you were forced to try
to prove I hadn't mentioned it years ago on alt.m.t.

(Funny too how you always complain about *my* quoting
posts from alt.m.t, as though they couldn't have any
relevance to anything going on here.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
 I did a quick check of a.m.t 

Just for the record, the a.m.t. search system 
has been non-functioning for at least a week.

Google Groups - alt.meditation.transcendental
http://tinyurl.com/dxse42

[FairfieldLife] Bowling for Columbine?

[Richard J. Williams]

The tragedy spawned Michael Moore's Bowling for 
Columbine, which became the top-grossing documentary 
of all time in the United States in 2002. Moore and 
shooting victim Mark Taylor walked into a Kmart and 
demanded the store take back the multiple bullets 
left in the teen's body.

Taylor's parents told ABCNews.com that their son 
had never received a dime from the movie. Today 
Taylor is mentally ill, living with his mother on 
food stamps in New Mexico.

Read more:

'Surviving Columbine: What We Got Wrong'
By Susan Donaldson James
ABC News, April 20, 2009
http://tinyurl.com/detavs 

With a budget of $4,000,000, Bowling for Columbine 
grossed $58,000,000 worldwide, including $21,576,018 
in the United States.

Read more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine

[FairfieldLife] Re: Things to remember next time Judy says I never lie

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 The most important thing to remember when she says
 this is *her definition of what lying is*. That is:
 
 Technically you could call it a 'lie', but...

Says Barry, misquoting me. I said, Technically,
you could call it a 'lie OF OMISSION,' but...

Said lie of omission being not giving the TM student
a translation of the puja.

 The important thing to remember is the but. 
 
 For Judy, the but seems always to be defined as 
 ...but lies are OK if they promote TM, or ...but 
 lies are OK if they help to perpetuate the image of 
 myself I am trying to promote, or ...but lies are 
 OK if they help to 'prove' that I was RIGHT and 
 someone else was WRONG.

Nope, I've never said or suggested any of this, nor
do I believe any of it.

 The primary example of this Steinian Definition Of 
 Non-Lying is in the following exchange:
 
JUDY STEIN is ON RECORD as supporting
*withholding* the translation of the puja
from potential TM students taught as part
of the David Lynch Foundation. JUDY STEIN was quite
strong about it. I would love to hear JUDY STEIN
justify that, and why it cannot be perceived
as a lie of omission, an attempt to obscure
and *hide* the real nature of the way that
TM is taught.
 
  Technically you could call it a lie of omission, but
  the reason for it is that (a) it's not necessary for
  the person to learn TM, and (b) it would be misused by
  TM critics to try to convince people they were learning
  a religious practice.
 
 In other words, it's **OK** to utilize a lie of 
 omission (even though it is technically a lie),
 as long as 1) it helps a person to start TM, and
 2) it does not provide ammunition to 'TM critics'
 who would 'misuse' it to tell the part of the truth
 that Judy doesn't want told.

Except that it *wouldn't* be part of the truth. Or
rather, it would be *only* part of the truth. Just
giving them the puja translation without explaining
in detail what it really meant and how it was being
used would be an even bigger lie of omission than not
giving it to them at all.

 Another example, in response to Curtis:
 
   If they want to use the version of imagination you are
   proposing and see the puja as non religious, let 'em.
   But let's not withhold the information they need to make
   their own best choice.
  
  TM is presented in a way that encourages people to
  think of it as nonreligious. It tends to promote the
  nonreligious choice.
 
 Again, Judy is on the side of *withholding information*
 as long as it helps to encourage people to think of
 TM as nonreligious. Again she *justifies* the use of 
 a lie of omission. That's some definition of truth 
 she's got, right?  :-)

The point here is that plain-vanilla TM isn't religious
unless you choose to think of it as religious. As it's
taught, TM is a secular technique.

I was asking Curtis why he should want TMers to think of
it as religious by giving them incomplete information
that will likely mislead them to think they're learning a
religious technique, when in fact what's being taught is
a secular technique.

(Curtis and I have a disagreement about how much
information is required to give folks what Curtis
feels would be an informed choice. I don't think
it's possible on a practical basis to give them
enough information to make a truly informed choice.
You'd need to hold a month's worth of daily intro
lectures before initiating them, and even so the
information wouldn't help all that much before
they'd had significant experience of the technique.)

 In the followup paragraph to the technically admission
 above, Judy defends the right of TM Teachers to say 
 things that are *completely contradictory to their own
 personal beliefs and knowledge*:
 
  *Teaching* it may be religious to the person doing
  the teaching, but that doesn't mean it's being learned
  as a religious practice.
 
 In other words, even though the TM Teachers *know* the
 words of the puja, and who it is *they* are bowing down to,
 and consider it a religious practice *themselves*, it's
 **OK** for them to say that it is nonreligous when talk-
 ing to other people and promoting TM.

Not what I said. If the puja is religious to the teacher,
the teacher should be willing to acknowledge this if asked,
while pointing out that his/her feelings about it are
irrelevant to the student.

 She follows up on this by claiming, essentially, that
 a person in ignorance of the real meaning of the puja
 should be kept in ignorance:
 
...even when JUDY STEIN
*knows* the translation of the words that the
action of bowing down follows:
 
  Makes no difference what the words mean if the
  person doing the kneeling doesn't understand the
  language.
 
 In this example, Judy makes the case for lying by 
 omission NOT for TM Teachers, but for HERSELF. In
 her view, if *she* knows the meaning of the TM puja and 
 the person she is addressing does not, it's not a 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... 
wrote:

 TurquoiseB wrote:
  I did a quick check of a.m.t 
 
 Just for the record, the a.m.t. search system 
 has been non-functioning for at least a week.
 
 Google Groups - alt.meditation.transcendental
 http://tinyurl.com/dxse42

Hmm, I found 252 posts on alt.m.t from Willtex just now:

http://tinyurl.com/d3nkq8

[FairfieldLife] Memorial Service for Molly

[Rick Archer]

Memorial service for Molly Atkinson
8PM  Thursday, 4/23
St. Gabriel's Church, Fairfield

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
   
WHY should we believe that you chose never to
mention it then, but choose to mention it now?
   
   The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
   when he claims I never mentioned it then?
   
   March 28, 1998, me in response to Andrew Skolnick:
   
   http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/f5e9ccef04333bf4
   
   http://tinyurl.com/cahj7s
  
  If that's so, I apologize.
 
 Thank you. Not sure why the if, though, when I gave
 you the URL so you could check it out for yourself.
 
   And of course, as Barry knows, I've mentioned it
   here as well.
  
  As should be fairly OBVIOUS, I *didn't* know
  that. Duh.
 
 Not obvious at all. Why would you go to all the
 trouble of running off to Google to search alt.m.t
 if you hadn't looked here first? 

Because Yahoo Groups Search has not worked
for me for some weeks. It returns nothing,
no matter what settings I use. It may be
working for you in the U.S., but it isn't
working at all for me from Spain. I've men-
tioned this a couple of times already. If 
*you* had been paying attention, you'd have
known this.  :-)

But I'll let you rant anyway, like the crazy
woman you are.  

 After all, this is
 where the discussion was taking place. It would
 have been so much more effective if you could have
 found me on FFL talking about kneeling without
 mentioning that I hadn't knelt.
 
 So I don't believe you. I think you *did* search
 here and found to your disappointment that I *had*
 mentioned not kneeling, so you were forced to try
 to prove I hadn't mentioned it years ago on alt.m.t.
 
 (Funny too how you always complain about *my* quoting
 posts from alt.m.t, as though they couldn't have any
 relevance to anything going on here.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Richard J. Williams]

Judy wrote: 
 Hmm, I found 252 posts on alt.m.t from Willtex 
 just now:
 
 http://tinyurl.com/d3nkq8

Only 252? By my count, I've posted over 8000, 
since 1999, but anyway, Thank you, Judy - I've 
been looking for some a.m.t. classics to post 
for almost a week.

Like I said, the a.m.t. search system has been
nonfuntional for over a week. The a.m.t. search
system sucks, ever since Google bought it from 
DejaNews. It's a shame, there are some real 
classics over there - a gold mine of information,
if the search system worked.

From: John Manning
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2004
Subject: Re: OT: Oh! Now I get it.

Willytex wrote:
 According to the Kerry's campaign Website, John 
 Kerry had at one time been 'the vice-chairman of 
 the Senate Intelligence committee'.

CLAIM:

Willytex is sane and is qualified to be elected as 
dog catcher in Austin.

FACT:

It's all a lie. He was never sane. He shouldn't be 
elected dog catcher - and he never deserved that 
golden dome badge. Sources say he was doing drugs 
instead of staying on program and was unfit to 
get the badge or now to become dog catcher. Austin's 
dogs deserve better says eyewitness Ned Wynn. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Richard J. Williams]

John Manning wrote:
 Austin's dogs deserve better says eyewitness Ned Wynn.

Yeah, that Ned Wynn - he's a real straight-shooter!

Ned Wynn on Marshy:

The guy has absolutely no style, no class. He's 
the classic backward Dravidian reactionary, sexually 
repressed, greedy, hypocritical, and a bald-faced 
liar. - Ned Wynn

[FairfieldLife] First crop circle of the season!

[Hugo]

Just like the sound of the first cuckoo of spring
the first crop circles are eagerly awaited by all.

It looks like the fine weather has bought the Space 
Brothers here earlier than ever. Or is it a sign
that global warming is affecting even the delicate 
psychic balance between Gaia and her unearthly 
manifestations?

You decide:

http://tinyurl.com/couzvq

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1171691/It-spring-The-years-crop-circles-spotted.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:

 WHY should we believe that you chose never to
 mention it then, but choose to mention it now?

The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
when he claims I never mentioned it then?

March 28, 1998, me in response to Andrew Skolnick:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/f5e9ccef04333bf4

http://tinyurl.com/cahj7s
   
   If that's so, I apologize.
  
  Thank you. Not sure why the if, though, when I gave
  you the URL so you could check it out for yourself.
  
And of course, as Barry knows, I've mentioned it
here as well.
   
   As should be fairly OBVIOUS, I *didn't* know
   that. Duh.
  
  Not obvious at all. Why would you go to all the
  trouble of running off to Google to search alt.m.t
  if you hadn't looked here first? 
 
 Because Yahoo Groups Search has not worked
 for me for some weeks. It returns nothing,
 no matter what settings I use. It may be
 working for you in the U.S., but it isn't
 working at all for me from Spain. I've men-
 tioned this a couple of times already. If 
 *you* had been paying attention, you'd have
 known this.  :-)

I know you've made this claim in the past, in
some cases trying to use it against me by
saying *my* search results were defective because
it wasn't working *for you*. But it's been off-
again, on-again for a very long time, so between
your false accusations and your chronic lying,
who the hell knows whether your claims at any
given moment that it isn't working are true?

I would also remind you of your claims that
*Google* search was working awhile back when it
clearly wasn't, and your assertion that I was
technically incompetent because I couldn't get
it to work.

Given all this, you don't have much basis for
complaint.

For anybody interested:

At present, Yahoo Search seems to be working
pretty well here for any posts *before* March 19
of this year, but posts after that have not been
searchable for at least a month.

Search glitches have been a topic of a lot of
discussion on the Yahoo Groups blog, and as the
banners on the Message List and post pages note,
Yahoo is working on a new system and hopes to have
all groups migrated to it by the end of the month.

I've notified Yahoo several times that no posts
after March 19 are searchable. Wouldn't hurt for
others to use the link in the banner to report
this as well.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
  (Funny too how you always complain about 
  *my* quoting posts from alt.m.t, as though 
  they couldn't have any relevance to anything 
  going on here.)
 
Yes, it is really funny - at least I think it's
funny, and fun to post these old messages, just
to see who has changed and who has stayed the
same. The a.l.t.'ers have practically taken over
the Yahoo! FairfieldLife forum, for better or for
worse. But why in hell did all you informants
stalk me over here - I was trying to get away 
from you guys! Go figure.

Here's Barry promoting the Buddhist religion:

From: Uncle Tantra
Subject: Re: Two simple questions for the 
bhakti supporters 
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: March 19, 2003

In my experience, the real value of a koan,
and why their value has been passed down to 
history but misunderstood, is that there is 
a power to a koan when it is *spoken* by a 
teacher.  NOT as words, NOT in the same sense 
that many here believe a mantra has power, but 
a kind of synergistic thing, a perception on 
the part of the teacher that this *particular* 
set of nonsense words has the capability of 
providing a breakthrough for this particular 
student at this particular moment in time.  
And, sometimes, it does.

However, the same set of nonsense words, 
spoken to another student, may have no effect 
whatsoever. The same set of nonsense words, 
pondered by someone ponderous, could only serve 
to make her more ponderous...

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... 
wrote:

 TurquoiseB wrote:
   (Funny too how you always complain about 
   *my* quoting posts from alt.m.t, as though 
   they couldn't have any relevance to anything 
   going on here.)

No, *I* wrote this *to* Barry.

[FairfieldLife] The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[Rick Archer]

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[curtisdeltablues]

This has some interesting points about the teaching. This is from a while a ago 
so you may want to amend some statements. But these points caught my eye.
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 

Andrew here has to resort to distorting the context of my
response, as well as employing fractional truths and blatant
inaccuracies, in order to claim what I said is false.

The invitation to kneel doesn't come till the end of the
ceremony, and BY NO MEANS does the student invariably kneel.

ME:
The puja is actually a study in assumptive behavior.  It uses a number of 
techniques similar to how a magician acquires compliance with his audience. (I 
know some will object to my choice of magicians but I am purposely not using 
con men who employ the same principles.)

We start: You'd like to have a flower (as we hand them one) and witness the 
ceremony...

Knowing what we know about how religious pujas are performed, the fact that 
their flower will be offered takes away any doubt in how they participate.  
They participate unknowingly unless they are familiar with Hindu pujas and then 
it it obvious. 
Judy:
We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in about their
own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.  I didn't.  There's no
pressure to do so.  Some who had more recently learned TM said
there hadn't even been an *invitation* to kneel.

ME:
No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion we make as we 
kneel,indicating that they kneel worked every time I used it.  I never had 
anyone in all my teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and some 
don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.  It would require a pretty 
strong oppositional personality or a person who had their own religious 
convictions to not go along.

Judy:
Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end, he or she
spends most of the ceremony standing off to the side, just
watching, contrary to the post I was responding to which claimed
by analogy, falsely, that the student was on his knees
throughout and very directly participated.

ME:
Just watching IS how you participate in a Hindu puja. They don't have the 
call and response deal Christians have.

It is correct that they do not kneel the whole time of course.  The off to the 
side thing is a bit slippery.  It is a small alter.  There is no room for them 
to be shoulder to shoulder as the teacher is making the offerings.  And just 
because they are looking at the religious alter from the side rather than 
straight on doesn't change anything anyway.  At most Hindu pujas people are all 
over the place as they participate in the puja by bringing offerings and paying 
the priest and then just watching.  This is the only way for Hindus to 
participate.  They don't keep saying AMEN.

Judy:
Here's what Andrew carefully omitted from what he quoted, the
part I was addressing (from Drew Olson):

   When the time comes to get the technique, he must first
   participate in a ceremony (the puja).  This consists of saying
   confession, taking Holy Communion, and having ashes rubbed on
   ones forehead, all the while on your knees

Andrew knows, of course, that this analogy is ludicrously
inaccurate.  But he figured he might have a better chance of
misleading readers if he deleted what I was responding to.  This
is absolutely typical of his tactics.  If the whole truth doesn't
serve his agenda, he does whatever's necessary to obscure it.

 The student also must bring fruit and a new

 handkerchief which he/she gives as an offering in the ceremony.

No, wrong again, Andrew.  The fruit and handkerchief (and
flowers--you forgot the flowers) are for the teacher who is going
to instruct the student, and they're given to the teacher when
the student walks into the room, BEFORE THE CEREMONY BEGINS, not
in the ceremony.  Giving fruit/flowers/hankerchief to the
teacher is not part of the ceremony.  There's even a brief
conversation in between giving them to the teacher and when the
teacher begins the ceremony.

ME:
Right giving fruit and flower and handkerchief is not part of the ceremony.  
But it is as I mentioned the only way people ever participate in pujas.  The 
priest makes the offerings for you and even hands you a flower to hold at the 
beginning so there is not confusion that your flower has been offered.

Judy:
Moreover, if the student doesn't show up with fruit and
handkerchief and flowers, the center usually has a supply on
hand.

ME:
I take exception to this.  We sent them out to get the stuff if they came 
without it.  I may have witnessed a few times when a handkerchief was supplied 
for a person who didn't bring a white one. But people were told that they had 
to bring this as a requirement for initiation.  It was not casual the way you 
describe.  Many people asked me if they could just give me the money to get 
them for them and we told them no.

I do not remember what the instruction is, if we had the ability to teach them 
if they 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_re...@... wrote:

 King Tony spoke very well, saying TM is not Hinduism, because religion is a 
 belief system, and we work from experience only, no belief required -- truly 
 Vedic Science.


That should fly real well with the Christians who experience that they are 
saved.  This is movement condescension and naivete concerning the implied 
beliefs in movement experiences.  Belief is required.  Maharishi himself 
admits it with his knowledge and experience rap and the mayavakyas.  Otherwise 
most people who take TM would be reveling in the EXPERIENCE of their magical 
panacea cure for all of life's problems. 

This insistence of the movement that they are experiencing something for real 
while other religious people are imagining things is unnecessary hubris.   



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote:
 
  He speaks very directly about the kind of issues that some people are 
  concerned about here, is TM a religion, what is the relationship with 
  Hinduism, does a TM teacher have to represent the tradition all the time 
  24/7 etc. currently repeating often on the Maharishi Channel and you can 
  find your time on the schedule.
  
  www.maharishichannel.in
 
 
 *
 
 King Tony spoke very well, saying TM is not Hinduism, because religion is a 
 belief system, and we work from experience only, no belief required -- truly 
 Vedic Science.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:


I forgot to add another point.  After initiation we give the student their 
handkerchief, a flower and a piece of fruit so they can enjoy the prasaad from 
the puja. This is also typical of all Hindu pujas where eating the offerings 
confers a blessing.  The magical nature of the transformed offerings is also 
reflected in the instruction for the teacher to burn all offered flowers or 
throw them in a large body of water.  Flowers are never offered twice (which 
would indicate a more symbolic or casual belief.) And nothing that had fallen 
on the floor can be offered.  

Perhaps some other teachers can add more of the religious beliefs that support 
the performance of the puja.
 


 This has some interesting points about the teaching. This is from a while a 
 ago so you may want to amend some statements. But these points caught my eye.
   
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
 
 Andrew here has to resort to distorting the context of my
 response, as well as employing fractional truths and blatant
 inaccuracies, in order to claim what I said is false.
 
 The invitation to kneel doesn't come till the end of the
 ceremony, and BY NO MEANS does the student invariably kneel.
 
 ME:
 The puja is actually a study in assumptive behavior.  It uses a number of 
 techniques similar to how a magician acquires compliance with his audience. 
 (I know some will object to my choice of magicians but I am purposely not 
 using con men who employ the same principles.)
 
 We start: You'd like to have a flower (as we hand them one) and witness the 
 ceremony...
 
 Knowing what we know about how religious pujas are performed, the fact that 
 their flower will be offered takes away any doubt in how they participate.  
 They participate unknowingly unless they are familiar with Hindu pujas and 
 then it it obvious. 
 Judy:
 We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in about their
 own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.  I didn't.  There's no
 pressure to do so.  Some who had more recently learned TM said
 there hadn't even been an *invitation* to kneel.
 
 ME:
 No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion we make as we 
 kneel,indicating that they kneel worked every time I used it.  I never had 
 anyone in all my teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and some 
 don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.  It would require a 
 pretty strong oppositional personality or a person who had their own 
 religious convictions to not go along.
 
 Judy:
 Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end, he or she
 spends most of the ceremony standing off to the side, just
 watching, contrary to the post I was responding to which claimed
 by analogy, falsely, that the student was on his knees
 throughout and very directly participated.
 
 ME:
 Just watching IS how you participate in a Hindu puja. They don't have the 
 call and response deal Christians have.
 
 It is correct that they do not kneel the whole time of course.  The off to 
 the side thing is a bit slippery.  It is a small alter.  There is no room 
 for them to be shoulder to shoulder as the teacher is making the offerings.  
 And just because they are looking at the religious alter from the side rather 
 than straight on doesn't change anything anyway.  At most Hindu pujas people 
 are all over the place as they participate in the puja by bringing offerings 
 and paying the priest and then just watching.  This is the only way for 
 Hindus to participate.  They don't keep saying AMEN.
 
 Judy:
 Here's what Andrew carefully omitted from what he quoted, the
 part I was addressing (from Drew Olson):
 
When the time comes to get the technique, he must first
participate in a ceremony (the puja).  This consists of saying
confession, taking Holy Communion, and having ashes rubbed on
ones forehead, all the while on your knees
 
 Andrew knows, of course, that this analogy is ludicrously
 inaccurate.  But he figured he might have a better chance of
 misleading readers if he deleted what I was responding to.  This
 is absolutely typical of his tactics.  If the whole truth doesn't
 serve his agenda, he does whatever's necessary to obscure it.
 
  The student also must bring fruit and a new
 
  handkerchief which he/she gives as an offering in the ceremony.
 
 No, wrong again, Andrew.  The fruit and handkerchief (and
 flowers--you forgot the flowers) are for the teacher who is going
 to instruct the student, and they're given to the teacher when
 the student walks into the room, BEFORE THE CEREMONY BEGINS, not
 in the ceremony.  Giving fruit/flowers/hankerchief to the
 teacher is not part of the ceremony.  There's even a brief
 conversation in between giving them to the teacher and when the
 teacher begins the ceremony.
 
 ME:
 Right giving fruit and flower and handkerchief is not part of the ceremony.  
 But it is 

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[I am the eternal]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote:



  http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm


Proof that TM is not a religion.  Chopra, OTOH.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[Vaj]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:38 PM, I am the eternal wrote:




On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Rick Archer  
r...@searchsummit.com wrote:



http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm


Proof that TM is not a religion.  Chopra, OTOH.


TM is included under Hinduism.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:
snip
 Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
 We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
 about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
 I didn't.  There's no pressure to do so.  Some who
 had more recently learned TM said there hadn't even
 been an *invitation* to kneel.
 
 ME:
 No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion
 we make as we kneel,indicating that they kneel worked
 every time I used it.  I never had anyone in all my
 teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and
 some don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.
 It would require a pretty strong oppositional
 personality or a person who had their own religious
 convictions to not go along.

Must have been lots of 'em on alt.m.t and among the 
TMers I knew, then. Some do, some don't is not an
overstatement in terms of my observation and that of
others on alt.m.t, including one TM teacher.
 
 Judy:
 Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end,
 he or she spends most of the ceremony standing off to
 the side, just watching, contrary to the post I was
 responding to which claimed by analogy, falsely, that
 the student was on his knees throughout and very
 directly participated.
 
 ME:
 Just watching IS how you participate in a Hindu puja.

Just watching is how you participate in a movie, too.

This argument doesn't work when it involves an *absence*
of active participation, Curtis. Not-doing what Hindus
don't-do doesn't add up to Hindu-type participation.

 They don't have the call and response deal Christians have.

Don't have call and response at the movies, either (unless
it's the Rocky Horror Show).

 Judy:
 Moreover, if the student doesn't show up with fruit and
 handkerchief and flowers, the center usually has a supply on
 hand.
 
 ME:
 I take exception to this.  We sent them out to get the stuff
 if they came without it.

Regardless of what you may have done, I did fruit
and flowers for several weekends at the Manhattan 
TM Center, and we always had a supply of fruit and
flowers on hand for people who forgot them.

 Judy:
 Again, unless the student chooses to kneel at the very end of the
 ceremony, he or she cannot be said to participate in it in any
 way.  And even that minimal participation is entirely optional.
 
 Me:
 Now that you know more about traditional Hindu pujas
 you may want to amend this claim. In a Hindu puja, you
 give the priest offerings to be made on your behalf
 and you give him cash for his service.  The student
 who is not aware of how pujas are done may be confused
 about their level of participation.

This argument makes no sense to me whatsoever. As far
as the student is concerned, s/he is not participating.
What the *teacher* thinks is irrelevant to what the
student thinks, unless you want to claim that the
student participates unknowingly via telepathy from the
teacher.

The notion that because Hindus don't actively
participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
participate, therefore TM students are participating
without knowing it, strikes me as the most extreme
kind of chop-logic.

It's like saying that since Americans don't bow
before the U.S. president, and Brits don't bow before
the U.S. president, therefore the Brits are showing
fealty to the U.S. president because they're not doing
what the Americans are not doing.

 Judy:
 Finally, it isn't even required that the student witness the
 ceremony.  Susan Seifert pointed out that she had instructed
 people who were incapable of witnessing it, let alone of kneeling
 at the end. 
 
 Me:
 I question this also.

Take it up with Susan.

 As a teacher, we believed that the puja had a magical quality.

Fine. You're welcome to believe whatever you want
to believe. Again, unless you want to claim that
your belief was transferred by telepathy to the student
and therefore the student believed everything you
believed *without being aware of it*, what you believed
is irrelevant.

snip
 Now the student is welcomed to think of it any way
 they want.  They can misunderstand everything that
 is going on.  They can imagine that the words in
 Sanskrit are the results from the day's horse races
 if they want.  But that does not change the religious
 nature of the ceremony, their participation in it or
 the layers of beliefs that support the insistence
 that it is performed every time someone learns TM. 

And I maintain the student is not participating
unless they think they're participating. You might
as well say the student has knelt because you
invited them to even though they never actually
took you up on the invitation.

 This ceremony of gratitude was also prescribed as a
 method for purification of the world around the time
 of Maharishi's death.  Teachers in their homes, doing
 pujas every day to magically purify the world. This is
 more reflective of how the movement views the puja
 than the more casual description you have given.

*For 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 snip
  Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
  We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
  about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
  I didn't.  There's no pressure to do so.  Some who
  had more recently learned TM said there hadn't even
  been an *invitation* to kneel.
  
  ME:
  No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion
  we make as we kneel,indicating that they kneel worked
  every time I used it.  I never had anyone in all my
  teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and
  some don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.
  It would require a pretty strong oppositional
  personality or a person who had their own religious
  convictions to not go along.
 
 Must have been lots of 'em on alt.m.t and among the 
 TMers I knew, then. Some do, some don't is not an
 overstatement in terms of my observation and that of
 others on alt.m.t, including one TM teacher.

Perhaps other teachers can weigh in.  This is not a big point it is just so 
different from my experience.  

  
  Judy:
  Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end,
  he or she spends most of the ceremony standing off to
  the side, just watching, contrary to the post I was
  responding to which claimed by analogy, falsely, that
  the student was on his knees throughout and very
  directly participated.
  
  ME:
  Just watching IS how you participate in a Hindu puja.
 
 Just watching is how you participate in a movie, too.

This is a false comparative.  You don't witness a person making offerings (that 
you brought) on an alter at the movies either.  The witnessing part is not the 
totality of your participation.

 
 This argument doesn't work when it involves an *absence*
 of active participation, Curtis. Not-doing what Hindus
 don't-do doesn't add up to Hindu-type participation.

I already made the point that the active part is bringing the offerings, 
holding the flower, witnessing the offerings, kneeling (debatable) and eating 
prasaad from the offerings afterwords. In a mass you just kneel there and a 
priest puts bread in your mouth Is that like eating popcorn at the movies?

 
  They don't have the call and response deal Christians have.
 
 Don't have call and response at the movies, either (unless
 it's the Rocky Horror Show).

Or you are watching a movie in my neighborhood!

 
  Judy:
  Moreover, if the student doesn't show up with fruit and
  handkerchief and flowers, the center usually has a supply on
  hand.
  
  ME:
  I take exception to this.  We sent them out to get the stuff
  if they came without it.
 
 Regardless of what you may have done, I did fruit
 and flowers for several weekends at the Manhattan 
 TM Center, and we always had a supply of fruit and
 flowers on hand for people who forgot them.

I don't doubt that during the hayday with tons of initiations stacked up, they 
let some people slip, especially if there was not a close place to get the 
items.  But by the time I became a teacher this was not optional for all three 
items. Perhaps other teachers can weigh in here as well.  It is a judgment call 
that the teacher makes a bit with an emphasis on the student bringing the 
offerings.  Since we are spelling out what they are I am a bit more dubious 
about the idea that the student doesn't know it is religious.

 
  Judy:
  Again, unless the student chooses to kneel at the very end of the
  ceremony, he or she cannot be said to participate in it in any
  way.  And even that minimal participation is entirely optional.
  
  Me:
  Now that you know more about traditional Hindu pujas
  you may want to amend this claim. In a Hindu puja, you
  give the priest offerings to be made on your behalf
  and you give him cash for his service.  The student
  who is not aware of how pujas are done may be confused
  about their level of participation.
 
 This argument makes no sense to me whatsoever. As far
 as the student is concerned, s/he is not participating.
 What the *teacher* thinks is irrelevant to what the
 student thinks, unless you want to claim that the
 student participates unknowingly via telepathy from the
 teacher.

This is where our discussion is getting interesting.  We have made headway into 
where we are drawing our lines and why.  The first claim in the movement is 
that the puja itself is not a religious ceremony.  This seems to me to be a 
blatant and consciously deceptive lie.  You seem to be picking a different 
line, that it is not a religious ceremony for the student, because they don't 
understand it.   This is an interesting point and I'll have to give it more 
thought.  But in your view, if the person is a Hindu and knows what we are 
singing, is it religious for them?  

 
 The notion that because Hindus don't actively
 participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
 participate, therefore TM 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[mainstream20016]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20016@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:

 Hey Nabs, 
  
 On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that all these predictions are 
 going to
 come true?

10

Heaven will walk on earth, in this generation
- Maharishi
   
   
   According to Benjamin Creme, Maitreya arrived in London in 1977 after 
   having created a Mahavirupta-body in the Himalayas, two years after 
   Maharishi made His historic proclamation on Lake Lucerne; The Dawn of the 
   Age of Enlightenment.
   
   The arrival of Maitreya in a physical body, for the first time in 100.000 
   years on this planet is perhaps the most far-reaching effects of the work 
   of Maharishi; the most remarkable Master of Masters mankind has seen 
   since Brahmananda Saraswathi.
  
  
  
  Since the early 80s, Benjamin Creme has been singing Any Day Now 
  (Maitreya will be reveal himself very publicly).  I will make a prediction 
  - Benjamin Creme will die before Maitreya appears in the flesh.
 
 Maitreya are in flesh already since 1977. The first interview has simply 
 not happened yet. And it won't before mankind is ready.


Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you, Nabby. 
IOW, it won't happen.  I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without Maitreya 
as the revealed and physically present Master.  
May you adjust to that reality well.  Peace.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Kirk]

 Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you, Nabby.
 IOW, it won't happen.  I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without 
 Maitreya as the revealed and physically present Master.
 May you adjust to that reality well.  Peace.


My question is what would change if Maitreya appeared? 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Vaj]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:22 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

I think this distinction you are making about whether it is  
religious for the student verses the teacher is the critical  
distinction. In a question of whether it is appropriate to teach in  
schools, I am inclined to think that this point is irrelevant.  But  
I am open to being convinced.  I hope more people will join in  
because we have gone way beyond the usual movement party line in  
this discussion and I am finding this very interesting.  Is this  
distinction Judy is drawing valid? (assuming of course that I  
understand it.)



Is a pygmie or a African Bushman who undergoes the Christian Rite of  
Communion participating in a religious ritual even if they don't  
understand it? Of course they are. Same with the TM puja, which is  
also authentically been compared to mantra initiation pujas by the  
famous Sanskrit scholar Sir John Woodruffe (who was also a tantric  
initiate himself).


I think you're letting yourself get taken for a ride. Judy doesn't  
want to be told it's a religious rite because she's already  
determined that she believes something else and her denial is very  
deep on many things TM. Her knowledge of such things seem quite  
paltry, so there's little basis for her to decide otherwise, even if  
she wanted to, but clearly she does not. The TM puja as a religious  
ritual is not a question, it's an established FACT.


How would you deal with someone who didn't believe the Latin  
Christian Mass was a religious rite, because they did not understand  
Latin? Would that make it any less religious in your eyes? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote:

 On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:22 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  I think this distinction you are making about whether it is  
  religious for the student verses the teacher is the critical  
  distinction. In a question of whether it is appropriate to 
  teach in schools, I am inclined to think that this point is 
  irrelevant. But I am open to being convinced.  I hope more 
  people will join in because we have gone way beyond the usual 
  movement party line in this discussion and I am finding this 
  very interesting. Is this distinction Judy is drawing valid? 
  (assuming of course that I understand it.)

I honestly don't think it is, Curtis. I'm 
gonna have to agree with Vaj here. Besides,
I think most people here *except* for the
TM supporters (and seemingly yourself) are
bored to tears by the subject. They came to
their own decision on the religiosity of TM
years ago and couldn't care less. 

 Is a pygmie or a African Bushman who undergoes the Christian 
 Rite of Communion participating in a religious ritual even 
 if they don't understand it? Of course they are. Same with 
 the TM puja, which is also authentically been compared to 
 mantra initiation pujas by the famous Sanskrit scholar Sir 
 John Woodruffe (who was also a tantric initiate himself).
 
 I think you're letting yourself get taken for a ride. 

What he said.

 Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because 
 she's already determined that she believes something else 
 and her denial is very deep on many things TM. 

Plus, her modus operandi on pretty much all
things is Truth is what *I* believe; anyone
who believes differently is WRONG, but that's
OK because I can lure them into an argument
and suck energy from them.

That's what I think is going on. I don't think
she even *believes* this bullshit she's spout-
ing. It's like a vampire talkin' trash to a
sweet young thing while sucking her blood. The
vampire doesn't really *mean* anything he's
saying...it's just a way to keep the victim 
staying a victim.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[I am the eternal]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote:


 TM is included under Hinduism.


Aha!  900 million strong!

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[shempmcgurk]

I find it amusing that Chopra gets listed as a big religion yet the TMO 
doesn't!

Ha!

Also, the list is incomplete: the believe in catastrophic man-made global 
warming is not included.  And it obviously qualifies as a religion.





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kirk
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:49 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
 Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you, Nabby.
 IOW, it won't happen. I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without 
 Maitreya as the revealed and physically present Master.
 May you adjust to that reality well. Peace.

My question is what would change if Maitreya appeared? 
That's a good question, and I meant to compliment you on your post about
this yesterday. Gurus can be a help and an inspiration, but ultimately,
significant change has to be accomplished by and within each individual.
There have been plenty of world teachers throughout history, and look where
we are today. It's naive to assume that another one is going to change
everything dramatically. But some people live on hopes and dreams.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Vaj]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Kirk wrote:



Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you,  
Nabby.

IOW, it won't happen.  I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without
Maitreya as the revealed and physically present Master.
May you adjust to that reality well.  Peace.



My question is what would change if Maitreya appeared?



It would be a very good time to invest in the Maitreya memorabilia  
market.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Big Religion Comparison Chart: Compare World Religions - ReligionFacts

[Bhairitu]

Is that on a par with the belief that Obama is going to take away guns?  
  ;-)
shempmcgurk wrote:
 I find it amusing that Chopra gets listed as a big religion yet the TMO 
 doesn't!

 Ha!

 Also, the list is incomplete: the believe in catastrophic man-made global 
 warming is not included.  And it obviously qualifies as a religion.





 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:
   
 http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

 



   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20016@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Hey Nabs, 
   
  On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that all these predictions are 
  going to
  come true?
 
 10
 
 Heaven will walk on earth, in this generation
 - Maharishi


According to Benjamin Creme, Maitreya arrived in London in 1977 after 
having created a Mahavirupta-body in the Himalayas, two years after 
Maharishi made His historic proclamation on Lake Lucerne; The Dawn of 
the Age of Enlightenment.

The arrival of Maitreya in a physical body, for the first time in 
100.000 years on this planet is perhaps the most far-reaching effects 
of the work of Maharishi; the most remarkable Master of Masters mankind 
has seen since Brahmananda Saraswathi.
   
   
   
   Since the early 80s, Benjamin Creme has been singing Any Day Now 
   (Maitreya will be reveal himself very publicly).  I will make a 
   prediction - Benjamin Creme will die before Maitreya appears in the flesh.
  
  Maitreya are in flesh already since 1977. The first interview has simply 
  not happened yet. And it won't before mankind is ready.
 
 
 Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you, Nabby. 
 IOW, it won't happen.  I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without 
 Maitreya as the revealed and physically present Master.  
 May you adjust to that reality well.  Peace.


Thus spoke the great oracle Mainstream. Unfortunately your thoughts are just 
that.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Kirk
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:49 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
  Benjamin Creme will die before mankind is Ready; as will you, Nabby.
  IOW, it won't happen. I hope you have a Plan B, Nabby - Life without 
  Maitreya as the revealed and physically present Master.
  May you adjust to that reality well. Peace.
 
 My question is what would change if Maitreya appeared? 
 That's a good question, and I meant to compliment you on your post about
 this yesterday. Gurus can be a help and an inspiration, but ultimately,
 significant change has to be accomplished by and within each individual.
 There have been plenty of world teachers throughout history, and look where
 we are today. It's naive to assume that another one is going to change
 everything dramatically. But some people live on hopes and dreams.


Who said Maitreya is a Guru ? You haven't done your homework, as usual.

Who is Maitreya ?

He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions. Christians 
know him as the Christ, and expect his imminent return. Jews await him as the 
Messiah; Hindus look for the coming of Krishna; Buddhists expect him as 
Maitreya Buddha; and Muslims anticipate the Imam Mahdi or Messiah. 
 
 
 
Although the names are different, many believe that they all refer to the same 
individual: the World Teacher, whose personal name is Maitreya (pronounced 
my-tray-ah). 
Preferring to be known simply as the Teacher, Maitreya has not come as a 
religious leader, or to found a new religion, but as a teacher and guide for 
people of every religion and those of no religion. 

At this time of great political, economic and social crisis Maitreya will 
inspire humanity to see itself as one family, and create a civilization based 
on sharing, economic and social justice, and global cooperation. 

He will launch a call to action to save the millions of people who starve to 
death every year in a world of plenty. Among Maitreya's recommendations will be 
a shift in social priorities so that adequate food, housing, clothing, 
education, and medical care become universal rights. 

Under Maitreya's inspiration, humanity itself will make the required changes 
and create a saner and more just world for all.


Rick; please read the last sentence s l o w l y.

http://www.share-international.org/index.htm

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 snip
  Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
  We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
  about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
  I didn't.  There's no pressure to do so.  Some who
  had more recently learned TM said there hadn't even
  been an *invitation* to kneel.
  
  ME:
  No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion
  we make as we kneel,indicating that they kneel worked
  every time I used it.  I never had anyone in all my
  teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and
  some don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.
  It would require a pretty strong oppositional
  personality or a person who had their own religious
  convictions to not go along.
 
 Must have been lots of 'em on alt.m.t and among the 
 TMers I knew, then. Some do, some don't is not an
 overstatement in terms of my observation and that of
 others on alt.m.t, including one TM teacher.
  
  Judy:
  Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end,
  he or she spends most of the ceremony standing off to
  the side, just watching, contrary to the post I was
  responding to which claimed by analogy, falsely, that
  the student was on his knees throughout and very
  directly participated.
  
  ME:
  Just watching IS how you participate in a Hindu puja.
 
 Just watching is how you participate in a movie, too.
 
 This argument doesn't work when it involves an *absence*
 of active participation, Curtis. Not-doing what Hindus
 don't-do doesn't add up to Hindu-type participation.
 
  They don't have the call and response deal Christians have.
 
 Don't have call and response at the movies, either (unless
 it's the Rocky Horror Show).
 
  Judy:
  Moreover, if the student doesn't show up with fruit and
  handkerchief and flowers, the center usually has a supply on
  hand.
  
  ME:
  I take exception to this.  We sent them out to get the stuff
  if they came without it.
 
 Regardless of what you may have done, I did fruit
 and flowers for several weekends at the Manhattan 
 TM Center, and we always had a supply of fruit and
 flowers on hand for people who forgot them.
 
  Judy:
  Again, unless the student chooses to kneel at the very end of the
  ceremony, he or she cannot be said to participate in it in any
  way.  And even that minimal participation is entirely optional.
  
  Me:
  Now that you know more about traditional Hindu pujas
  you may want to amend this claim. In a Hindu puja, you
  give the priest offerings to be made on your behalf
  and you give him cash for his service.  The student
  who is not aware of how pujas are done may be confused
  about their level of participation.
 
 This argument makes no sense to me whatsoever. As far
 as the student is concerned, s/he is not participating.
 What the *teacher* thinks is irrelevant to what the
 student thinks, unless you want to claim that the
 student participates unknowingly via telepathy from the
 teacher.
 
 The notion that because Hindus don't actively
 participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
 participate, therefore TM students are participating
 without knowing it, strikes me as the most extreme
 kind of chop-logic.
 
 It's like saying that since Americans don't bow
 before the U.S. president, and Brits don't bow before
 the U.S. president, therefore the Brits are showing
 fealty to the U.S. president because they're not doing
 what the Americans are not doing.
 
  Judy:
  Finally, it isn't even required that the student witness the
  ceremony.  Susan Seifert pointed out that she had instructed
  people who were incapable of witnessing it, let alone of kneeling
  at the end. 
  
  Me:
  I question this also.
 
 Take it up with Susan.
 
  As a teacher, we believed that the puja had a magical quality.
 
 Fine. You're welcome to believe whatever you want
 to believe. Again, unless you want to claim that
 your belief was transferred by telepathy to the student
 and therefore the student believed everything you
 believed *without being aware of it*, what you believed
 is irrelevant.
 
 snip
  Now the student is welcomed to think of it any way
  they want.  They can misunderstand everything that
  is going on.  They can imagine that the words in
  Sanskrit are the results from the day's horse races
  if they want.  But that does not change the religious
  nature of the ceremony, their participation in it or
  the layers of beliefs that support the insistence
  that it is performed every time someone learns TM. 
 
 And I maintain the student is not participating
 unless they think they're participating. You might
 as well say the student has knelt because you
 invited them to even though they never actually
 took you up on the invitation.
 
  This ceremony of gratitude was also prescribed as a
  method for purification of the world around the time
  of Maharishi's 

[FairfieldLife] Fwd: MSN Poll on Obama

[Dick Mays]

Fwd from a friend:

MSNBC has a poll up about the President's job so far for the first 
100 days.  Republicans are flooding it with F votes.   If you feel 
so inclined, pass this address on and go to it to vote:  
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
  The notion that because Hindus don't actively
  participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
  participate, therefore TM students are participating
  without knowing it, strikes me as the most extreme
  kind of chop-logic.
 
 And your focusing on that one aspect while ignoring all
 the things that they do seems a bit slippery to me.  I
 am not equating their participation on what they don't
 do, I am equating it with what they do.

Look, here's the point. The whole thing is set up so
that this already *very* minimal participation by
Hindus (when you have to put watching on the list of
participatory activities, your argument is in trouble)
is minimized still further for the TM student, both
before (when it's described as like an apple for the
teacher) and during. The student is deliberately made
to feel they are *not* participating, only watching.

The fruit, flowers, and hankie are *taken away* from
the student when they walk in the door of the center
and prepared, out of the student's sight, in the basket,
so when the basket is given back just before they walk
in the door of the initiation room, it's as if the
offerings are no longer the student's; the teacher has
already appropriated them for his/her own use.

The only reason the student is given the basket, it
seems, is because he or she is the one who's going into
the initiation room where the teacher has been waiting,
so whoever prepared the basket doesn't have to barge in
as well.

(That's how it was done in the Manhattan center, at any
rate.)

he participation of holding the flower, the invitation
to kneel, and giving the student the prasad back is
downplayed and very informally done with no indication
that it's really part of the ritual (except for the
kneeling, but that's optional).

It appears to me that this is all part of an effort to
*avoid* entangling the student in the Hindu aspects
of the puja, to keep those aspects as much strictly on
the teacher's side as is humanly possible while still
preserving the required elements of a traditional
ceremony.

It's *designed* to lead the student to think s/he's not participating; and if 
s/he doesn't think that, how can
s/he possibly be committing him/herself to anything?

You look at this as deception; I see it as protecting
the student from inappropriate involvement in a
ceremony that is not part of his/her religion.

[FairfieldLife] Madonna adopts Slumdog star

[shempmcgurk]

MADONNA ADOPTS SLUMDOG STARPosted on Monday, April 20th, 2009
By Reginald Cunningham III
http://weeklyworldnews.com/author/wwnreginaldcunningham/

  [madonna_bids]
MUMBAI - Father of Slumdog Millionaire star Rafiq Qureshi attempted to
sell his nine year old daughter for $300,000.  Madonna has put in a
higher bid, hoping to add to her collection of ethnic children.

Qureshi attempted to sell his daughter Rubina Ali last week in what was
really a sting operation held by British Journalists.  Rubina won the
hearts of millions playing young Latika in the Oscar winning film
Slumdog Millionaire.

Madonna, outraged over the controversy and desperate to appear relevant,
has put in a higher bid for the girl.  After losing her bid earlier this
month to adopt a child in Malawi, Madonna is still looking to add to her
multiracial family.  She hopes that raising an Oscar Child
from an impoverished slum will help her compete with Angelina Jolie.

If adopted by the pop singer, Rubina Ali would be taken from her
dysfunctional parents and entered into The Madonna Care program.  Only
seeing Madonna on birthdays and major holidays, Rubina would instead be
raised by a team of elite nannies, all of whom are ex-special forces
with Child Psychology degrees and black belts in Krav Maga.  The
displaced child star would also have her own nutritionist,
acupuncturist, yoga instructor, and pediatric life coach.

Groups around the world dedicated to fighting poverty are now turning
their attention to Mr. Qureshi.  One Arkansas pastor is collecting funds
to charter a plane to Mumbai so he and volunteers from his congregation
can track down Qureshi and give him a good old fashion country *ss
whoopin'.  This was met with cheers of AMEN! by all
parishioners present.

The mysterious and reclusive Editor-in-Chief of Weekly World News is
leaving later this morning, having taken it upon himself to personally
slap Rafiq Qureshi in the face.

[FairfieldLife] Re: First crop circle of the season!

[Patrick Gillam]

Do we get crop circles in the United 
States? In all the time I was growing 
up in Iowa, I never heard of a crop circle.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:

 
 
 Just like the sound of the first cuckoo of spring
 the first crop circles are eagerly awaited by all.
 
 It looks like the fine weather has bought the Space 
 Brothers here earlier than ever. Or is it a sign
 that global warming is affecting even the delicate 
 psychic balance between Gaia and her unearthly 
 manifestations?
 
 You decide:
 
 http://tinyurl.com/couzvq
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1171691/It-spring-The-years-crop-circles-spotted.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: First crop circle of the season!

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote:

 Do we get crop circles in the United 
 States? In all the time I was growing 
 up in Iowa, I never heard of a crop circle.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051031/NEWS/510310379/1004

http://tinyurl.com/b6tx3

Excerpts:

[Jeffrey] Wilson of Ohio is director of the 
Independent Crop Circle Researchers' Association, 
an organization that records and investigates crop 
circles in the United States and Canada. His 
research has found more than 500 reports of crop 
circles in the United States from 1880 through 
2004. Most (343) have been in the last couple of 
decades, from 1990 to 2004, and 21 crop circles 
have been spotted so far this year [October 2005]

U.S. crop circles have been reported in 49 states, 
but have been concentrated in the first the Great 
Lakes area, then Iowa and Missouri along the 
Mississippi River, and thirdly in California and 
the West Coast. Ohio and Iowa have had the most 
crop circles, and July is the most common month
they are found, Wilson said

[FairfieldLife] Re: First crop circle of the season!

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@...
wrote:

 Do we get crop circles in the United
 States? In all the time I was growing
 up in Iowa, I never heard of a crop circle.




There seems to have been a few also in the USA, but England seems to be
the focuspoint at the moment.
Enlarge[BEE CROP CIRCLE]  
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/18/article-1171691-0484CE680\
5DC-241_468x291_popup.jpg
Unbee-lievable: This insect shape appeared in the crops in Milk Hill,
Wiltshire in 2004
  [Crop circle ]
Mysterious: A rectangular shape was left in crops in East Field,
Wiltshire in 2003

However crop circle enthusiasts argue there are not enough hours of
darkness in summer to allow them to be completed by humans.

Many people believe the patterns are a message from extra-terrestrial
lifeforms.

Another theory is that colossal energy is amassed above the earth in the
ionosphere and then zapped towards the ground where it creates the crop
circle usually on chalky ground in areas traditionally known for their
'energy lines' and mystical past.

In the past the formations have not been limited to just circles.


Shapes include a bee, a rectangle and even a three-dimensional
formation.


Last year a crop circle in a barley field near Wroughton in Wiltshire
was found by an astrophysicist  to be a pictorial representation of the
first ten digits of Pi, one of the most fundamental symbols in
mathematics.
Enlarge[3D crop shape ]  
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/18/article-1171691-0484D0900\
5DC-244_468x310_popup.jpg
From another dimension? A 3D shape appeared in crops in Silbury Hill,
Wiltshire in 2007
  [crop circle ]
It all adds up: This crop circle in a barley field near Wroughton in
Wiltshire is thought to be a coded version of Pi

[FairfieldLife] Re: First crop circle of the season!

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote:
 
  Do we get crop circles in the United 
  States? In all the time I was growing 
  up in Iowa, I never heard of a crop circle.
 
 http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051031/NEWS/510310379/1004
 
 http://tinyurl.com/b6tx3
 
 Excerpts:
 
 [Jeffrey] Wilson of Ohio is director of the 
 Independent Crop Circle Researchers' Association, 
 an organization that records and investigates crop 
 circles in the United States and Canada. His 
 research has found more than 500 reports of crop 
 circles in the United States from 1880 through 
 2004. Most (343) have been in the last couple of 
 decades, from 1990 to 2004, and 21 crop circles 
 have been spotted so far this year [October 2005]
 
 U.S. crop circles have been reported in 49 states, 
 but have been concentrated in the first the Great 
 Lakes area, then Iowa and Missouri along the 
 Mississippi River, and thirdly in California and 
 the West Coast. Ohio and Iowa have had the most 
 crop circles, and July is the most common month
 they are found, Wilson said

That's very interesting Judy, I did not know that. According to some researches 
this phenomen is also nothing new but that the patterns have become 
dramatically bigger, more frequent and more complex since 1975 when Maharishi, 
as we know, inaugurated the Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of geezerfreak
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:04 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling
*ever* just kneeling)
 

You have the student bring the offerings. If they don't they were told to go
back and get them. 
I showed up for my initiation without puja offerings or money. I figured
those things were relative and if they were really enlightened they wouldn't
care. The sent me home, which involved walking from 123 E. 78th St., across
Central Park, taking a subway up to the George Washington Bridge area,
walking across the bridge, and getting picked up by friends and driven back
to Franklin Lakes, NJ. I hung around there till about 11pm, and finally
called my father in Fairfield, Connecticut. He agreed to give me the money,
so I hitchhiked home, walking most of the way across Westchester County,
getting home around dawn, and taking the train back into the city. Wonderful
TM experience from the get-go. Haven't missed one since.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:

[Curtis wrote:]
   This ceremony of gratitude was also prescribed as a
   method for purification of the world around the time
   of Maharishi's death.  Teachers in their homes, doing
   pujas every day to magically purify the world. This is
   more reflective of how the movement views the puja
   than the more casual description you have given.
  
  *For the movement*. Not for the beginning TM student.
 
 Ahh, but our mission was to convert the beginning TM
 student to someone who came to the advanced lectures,
 attended residence courses, take SCI, get Siddha
 instrauction, buy various and sundry treatments, etc. etc.

And at each stage of involvement, they'd learn more
about what they were getting involved in and could
back out at any time--but they'd *still have the
technique*.

 Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because allowing
 yourself to agree with them would mean that you have
 been participating in a religion all this time.

No, Curtis and I have different understandings of
what participating in a religion means; and his
specific argument I said made no sense didn't make
sense *logically*.

snip
 You can claim all of this is nonsense if you like, but
 you were not a teacher.

What exactly do you think I claim is nonsense that
I wouldn't claim was nonsense if I had been a TM
teacher?

I get the distinct impression you haven't been following
what I'm saying.

 It's one thing to isolate one aspect of teaching TM
 and try to argue the non-religious nature. But when you
 consider the totality of what we know about the puja, the
 pretend world government, the yagyas, the mantras
 representing the essence of Hindu gods

Or, the Hindu gods representing the imagined quasi-
physical form of the mantra vibration.

the whole nine
 yards of it, to claim that TM is not a religion involves
 the epitome of head in the sand (or even a much darker
 place) thinking.

Actually I think it's been *turned into* a religion
in recent years. But I don't think teaching students
plain-vanilla TM a la Lynch's program constitutes
converting them to Hinduism or involving them in a
religion different from their own.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Kirk]

My question is what would change if Maitreya appeared? 

That's a good question, and I meant to compliment you on your post about this 
yesterday. Gurus can be a help and an inspiration, but ultimately, significant 
change has to be accomplished by and within each individual. There have been 
plenty of world teachers throughout history, and look where we are today. It's 
naive to assume that another one is going to change everything dramatically. 
But some people live on hopes and dreams.

Thank you.  Moreover, look at accusations against Sai Baba. even before he was 
labled a fraud many people went to him and were blown away by his seeming lack 
of compassion.   People who go humble themselves in front of him do so out of 
selfishness, or at best out of relative selfishness, meaning they go and pray 
for their own benefit or the benefit of others they know. Most often people who 
leave his presence without having gotten what they came for leave the worse for 
the wear with their dreams and hopes belittled. 

Someone of even greater hype will engage people's neuroseses even more. 
Expectations about life and even more relating to masters and avatars are even 
higher. In short people will become even more put off by religion and 
spirituality when they don't get what they came for. Any master declaring that 
their acolytes should be better and give up selfishness and so on will be 
merely not heard just as they were not heard yesterday. The rare miracle is 
only beneficial for the rare person.  

The experiences of unity and other psychic and unique gifts merely separate 
people further into haves and have-nots.  Also each new guru brings a new 
separation between people. Maitreya will never be accepted by all people even 
if he does miracles and proves them in front of science. 

there's really little value in avatars and mystical gurus for the untrained. 
For those of such a bent who have fulfilled the necessary preliminaries to such 
mystical schools only those persons may value from such an implausable 
education.  

Finally, the very subject of God is basically imaginary and anti-reason. Thus 
the whole idea of some avatar coming to retrain humanity is itself atavistic 
and would set humankind back into the Dark Ages.  Such a thing only has value 
during a Stephen King - like apocalypse.  Where the very survival of humankind 
is at risk.  And even then such messiahs could be the very key which turns on 
final destruction.

There is no state of readiness for Maitreya that will ever come, just as one is 
never ready when their house catches on fire. Ben Creme is a schizophrenic, 
just as are the multitudes of channelers. I have seen a channeler altogether 
lose her mind and go into insane fits of hysteria when under the guise of her 
persona. It's rather scary.  To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Kirk]

PS, an interesting book about these people and gurus in short is called The 
Spiritual Tourist, by Mick Brown.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote:
snip
 Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
 allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
 that you have been participating in a religion
 all this time.

BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
nonreligious throughout all his years in the TMO?

(I'd dig it up for you, but as noted, search is
broken for posts after March 19.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote:
 snip
  Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
  allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
  that you have been participating in a religion
  all this time.
 
 BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
 long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
 nonreligious throughout all his years in the TMO?

Fearful that the current victim may be
wising up to her act, the thirsty old 
vampire tries her best to find someone 
else to suck dry. 

:-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Sal Sunshine]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:07 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:


Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because
she's already determined that she believes something else
and her denial is very deep on many things TM.


Plus, her modus operandi on pretty much all
things is Truth is what *I* believe; anyone
who believes differently is WRONG, but that's
OK because I can lure them into an argument
and suck energy from them.


Not to mention twisting the truth to such a degree
a pretzel would look like a straight line by
comparison.  Unbelievable, really.
Judy has almost perfected the art of doubletalk.
So I guess TM really does work after all!

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Richard J. Williams]

  Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
  allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
  that you have been participating in a religion
  all this time.
 
Judy wrote:
 BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
 long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
 nonreligious throughout all his years in the TMO?
 
 (I'd dig it up for you, but as noted, search is
 broken for posts after March 19.)

It seems like, instead of following the Marshy, some
people are desperate to turn TM into a religion. They
see a *personal* God in almost everything TMers do -
they just can't understand how TM could be Vedantic
and non-theistic. Instead of a relaxation technique,
they feel a real need to *believe* - in something,
anything. Maybe that's why they left TM practice - it 
didn't fulfill their religious needs, so they dropped
it.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Madonna adopts Slumdog star

[Rick Archer]

From Weekly World News, which is sort of like The Onion, although I suspect
that a frightening percentage of people going through supermarket checkout
lines take it seriously. Their lovable icon is Bat Boy:
http://s3.wordpress.com/wp-content/themes/vip/weeklyworldnews/images/wwn_log
o3.gif
 
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of shempmcgurk
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Madonna adopts Slumdog star
 





MADONNA ADOPTS SLUMDOG STAR

Posted on Monday, April 20th, 2009
By  http://weeklyworldnews.com/author/wwnreginaldcunningham/ Reginald
Cunningham III
 madonna_bids
http://weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madonna_bids.jpg?w=375h
=200 
MUMBAI - Father of Slumdog Millionaire star Rafiq Qureshi attempted to sell
his nine year old daughter for $300,000.  Madonna has put in a higher bid,
hoping to add to her collection of ethnic children.
Qureshi attempted to sell his daughter Rubina Ali last week in what was
really a sting operation held by British Journalists.  Rubina won the hearts
of millions playing young Latika in the Oscar winning film Slumdog
Millionaire.
Madonna, outraged over the controversy and desperate to appear relevant, has
put in a higher bid for the girl.  After losing her bid earlier this month
to adopt a child in Malawi, Madonna is still looking to add to her
multiracial family.  She hopes that raising an Oscar Child from an
impoverished slum will help her compete with Angelina Jolie.
If adopted by the pop singer, Rubina Ali would be taken from her
dysfunctional parents and entered into The Madonna Care program.  Only
seeing Madonna on birthdays and major holidays, Rubina would instead be
raised by a team of elite nannies, all of whom are ex-special forces with
Child Psychology degrees and black belts in Krav Maga.  The displaced child
star would also have her own nutritionist, acupuncturist, yoga instructor,
and pediatric life coach.
Groups around the world dedicated to fighting poverty are now turning their
attention to Mr. Qureshi.  One Arkansas pastor is collecting funds to
charter a plane to Mumbai so he and volunteers from his congregation can
track down Qureshi and give him a good old fashion country *ss whoopin'.
This was met with cheers of AMEN! by all parishioners present.
The mysterious and reclusive Editor-in-Chief of Weekly World News is leaving
later this morning, having taken it upon himself to personally slap Rafiq
Qureshi in the face.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2068 - Release Date: 04/20/09
10:36:00

Re: [FairfieldLife] Madonna adopts Slumdog star

[I am the eternal]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote:



  From Weekly World News, which is sort of like The Onion, although I
 suspect that a frightening percentage of people going through supermarket
 checkout lines take it seriously. Their lovable icon is Bat Boy:
 http://s3.wordpress.com/wp-content/themes/vip/weeklyworldnews/images/wwn_logo3.gif


Rick, it's really good satire, meaning you need to get 3/4 the way through
before you realize you've been had.  I suspected The Onion.

One of the give aways was that the child would not be put on a microbiotic
diet or taught the Kabala.

I loved Madonna in Evita.  Much better than the live performances.  I
remember when Madonna went to Argentina and tried to talk/bribe the
archbishop into allowing her to film in the churches there.  After having
made a video of her having an interlude with the risen Christ in an old
Spanish church and being named after the Virgin Mary her chances weren't all
that good.  So I'm told she filmed in Czecho.  A life as varied as our
spiritual leader Barry, at least.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote:
 Actually most of the experiences in TM are coached. 

***

Well, er, maybe couched:

http://www.stayingisbelieving.com/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharaja Adiraja Rajaram speaks about religion and teaching etc

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote:
 Actually most of the experiences in TM are coached. 

*

Er, well, maybe couched would be more accurate:

http://www.stayingisbelieving.com/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernha...@... wrote:

To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!



Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy words 
seriously.

Please get a checking ! Before it's to late.

[FairfieldLife] Trommel snake

[bob_brigante]

http://snipurl.com/gb3c7  [www_motherjones_com] 

[FairfieldLife] Re: What Barry Wright doesn't know

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
 Not one of which I read. 
 
It wasn't from Judy, so Turqy didn't read it.

 And you know what's saddest?
 
 MY bet is that these 377 lines represent more 
 writing than you have accomplished on any of 
 your creative writing projects in months. 
 
How much would you be willing to wager? 

My bet is that Edg keyed it in in less than 
five minutes, but your reply took you all night 
or more. And while yours made no sense at all, 
Edg's was a polished and well phrased masterpiece, 
in comparison. Maybe it was Barry that got angry 
because Edg said it so well, while Barry had 
nothing to say. Sometimes Barry is all hat, no 
cattle. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote:

 On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:07 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because
  she's already determined that she believes something else
  and her denial is very deep on many things TM.
 
  Plus, her modus operandi on pretty much all
  things is Truth is what *I* believe; anyone
  who believes differently is WRONG, but that's
  OK because I can lure them into an argument
  and suck energy from them.
 
 Not to mention twisting the truth to such a degree
 a pretzel would look like a straight line by
 comparison.

Interesting how Sal knows this without reading
my posts, isn't it?

What would be even more interesting would be for
her to actually *cite* some examples of my alleged
truth-twisting. (It would be too much to expect that
she would be able to *rebut* them, of course.)

Jeez, how much more intellectually cowardly can
you get, Sal?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote:
  snip
   Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
   allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
   that you have been participating in a religion
   all this time.
  
  BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
  long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
  nonreligious throughout all his years in the TMO?
 
 Fearful that the current victim may be
 wising up to her act, the thirsty old 
 vampire tries her best to find someone 
 else to suck dry.

Barry took a pretty tough one-two punch from me in
the last couple of days, so he's going to be out
of control for awhile, not stopping to think
whether his attempted jabs make any sense. The
above is just the beginning.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote:
 
  On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:07 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
  
   Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because
   she's already determined that she believes something else
   and her denial is very deep on many things TM.
  
   Plus, her modus operandi on pretty much all
   things is Truth is what *I* believe; anyone
   who believes differently is WRONG, but that's
   OK because I can lure them into an argument
   and suck energy from them.
  
  Not to mention twisting the truth to such a degree
  a pretzel would look like a straight line by
  comparison.
 
 Interesting how Sal knows this without reading
 my posts, isn't it?
 
 What would be even more interesting would be for
 her to actually *cite* some examples of my alleged
 truth-twisting. (It would be too much to expect that
 she would be able to *rebut* them, of course.)

See Judy. See Judy see Sal enjoying her
life and laughing at her. See Judy try
to suck Sal's attention. 

Suck Judy, suck. See Judy suck. 

:-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: What Barry Wright doesn't know

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... 
wrote:

 TurquoiseB wrote:
  Not one of which I read. 
  
 It wasn't from Judy, so Turqy didn't read it.
 
  And you know what's saddest?
  
  MY bet is that these 377 lines represent more 
  writing than you have accomplished on any of 
  your creative writing projects in months. 
  
 How much would you be willing to wager? 
 
 My bet is that Edg keyed it in in less than 
 five minutes, but your reply took you all night 
 or more. And while yours made no sense at all, 
 Edg's was a polished and well phrased masterpiece, 
 in comparison. Maybe it was Barry that got angry 
 because Edg said it so well, while Barry had 
 nothing to say. Sometimes Barry is all hat, no 
 cattle. Go figure.


HeHe. All hat, no cattle ? 

That's a very funny picture, from where did this expression arise ?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Barry Wright doesn't know

[Sal Sunshine]

On Apr 20, 2009, at 4:00 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:

Edg,

I didn't bother to read any of this. I merely
pressed Ctrl-A and Ctrl-C pasted it into a text
editor.

Why? Because someone (I forget who) predicted
that you would react to me blowing your last
rant off without reading it with a 100+ line
reply. Possibly, in his estimation, a 200+
line reply. So I had to turn on line count
and see how good his seeing was.

It's not all that great. It took you 377 lines
to vent your spleen this time.

Not one of which I read.

And you know what's saddest?

MY bet is that these 377 lines represent more
writing than you have accomplished on any of
your creative writing projects in months.

And THAT is what you are angry about. Not me.


I admit to having read maybe about 50 lines,
to try and see if there were any pearls I might
have otherwise missed.

To be fair, it's about time for Edg's two-month
blowout, so he's right on schedule.

Sal

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:13 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Kirk kirk_bernha...@...
wrote:

To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!


Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy words
seriously.

Please get a checking ! Before it's too late.
Yeah, Kirk. The New Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a
minute. It closed years ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 Jeez, how much more intellectually cowardly can
 you get, Sal?

Sal is not an intellectually coward. She is bitter and old.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[Sal Sunshine]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
On Apr 20, 2009, at 4:26 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:


Interesting how Sal knows this without reading
my posts, isn't it?

What would be even more interesting would be for
her to actually *cite* some examples of my alleged
truth-twisting. (It would be too much to expect that
she would be able to *rebut* them, of course.)


See Judy. See Judy see Sal enjoying her
life and laughing at her. See Judy try
to suck Sal's attention.

Suck Judy, suck. See Judy suck.


Yep. And actually it's Judy sucking the the life
out of her own posts, seeing as how she's
now up to 42, I think.

And of course I never said I wasn't going to
read her posts, I said I wouldn't respond to her.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: MSN Poll on Obama

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickm...@... wrote:

 Fwd from a friend:
 
 MSNBC has a poll up about the President's job so far for the first 
 100 days.  Republicans are flooding it with F votes.   If you feel 
 so inclined, pass this address on and go to it to vote:  
 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093


Obama has been consistently in the 60% approval range since he got elected: 
http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:13 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Kirk kirk_bernhardt@
 wrote:
 
 To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!
 
 
 Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy words
 seriously.
 
 Please get a checking ! Before it's too late.
 Yeah, Kirk. The New Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a
 minute. It closed years ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.

You are partially right by the way. Action creates reaction. That the dull 
americans did not head Maharishi's most urgent call to create a permanent 7000 
group in that country had to create a reaction.
 
Katrina, 9/11 are but a few.

As long as the indian Pundits are there you will be alright for now. But what 
will happen if they leave for the lack of funding, or for other reasons ?

[FairfieldLife] Re: What Barry Wright doesn't know

[Richard J. Williams]

  Sometimes Barry is all hat, no cattle.
 
nab wrote: 
 All hat, no cattle ? 
 
 That's a very funny picture, from where did 
 this expression arise ?

Well, Nabby, I think it's from one of Turqy's 
favorite country singers, Trace Adkins. 

Apparenlty Turqy and Curty like Hillbilly 
music a lot. LOL! Me? I like Rockabilly. 

'All Hat, No Cattle'
Trace Adkins

See that boy standing there by the dance floor
He's lookin' like the Marlboro Man
Starched shirt, starched jeans, big trophy buckle
And an empty Copenhagen can
He's talkin' cowboy this and cowboy that
Well I'll bet one thing's for sure
The only stampede that he's ever seen
Is the clearance at the western store

All hat and no cattle, that boy just ain't real
All boots and no saddle, don't know how to make a cowgirl feel
Think I'm gonna tell him to pack up his act
And go back where he came from
'Cause all hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done

He's just a smooth-talkin', long-tall slow-walkin'
Srugstore-made-up dude
So honey don't you fall for that fake Texas drawl
He ain't right for you
What you need's a man that ain't just a hat stand
When you get him home
Well, I don't look like much, but I can sure saddle up
And ride with you all night long

All nat and no cattle, that boy just ain't real
All boots and no saddle, don't know how to make a cowgirl feel
Think I'm gonna tell him to pack up his act
And go back where he came from
'Cause all hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done

All hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:51 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:13 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com 
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Kirk kirk_bernhardt@
 wrote:
 
 To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!
 
 
 Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy
words
 seriously.
 
 Please get a checking ! Before it's too late.
 Yeah, Kirk. The New Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a
 minute. It closed years ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.

You are partially right by the way. Action creates reaction. That the dull
americans did not head Maharishi's most urgent call to create a permanent
7000 group in that country had to create a reaction.

Katrina, 9/11 are but a few.

As long as the indian Pundits are there you will be alright for now. But
what will happen if they leave for the lack of funding, or for other reasons
?
You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel leaf?
 

[FairfieldLife] Slideshow of Maharishi Vedic Pandits in India

[michael]

Von: Brahmananda Saraswati Trust donati...@maharishi.net
Betreff: draft # 2 * Slideshow of Maharishi Vedic Pandits in India
An: vedamer...@yahoo.de
Datum: Montag, 20. April 2009, 22:50















 







20 April 2009
  
Dear michael


After the very enthusiastic response to the last newsletter — with so many 
asking if they could see additional photos of the Vedic Pandits at the 
Brahmasthan of India — we thought to send these additional pictures in the form 
of a slideshow with the soundtrack of almost 800 Maharishi Vedic Pandits 
reciting Rudrabhishek. We very much hope you will enjoy this.








 



Please let us know what else you might like us to send along about Maharishi's 
pandit program for creating peace and affluence; and please continue to send us 
your suggestions for how to make this project happen more quickly.

 
With very best wishes,
 
Jai Guru Dev

Raja Harris
 
 
P.S. If this newsletter was forwarded to you by a friend, you can sign up to 
have future issues sent directly to you by clicking here. 

If you would like to support the Vedic Pandits at the Brahmasthan you can make 
an on-line donation here.












This message was sent from Brahmananda Saraswati Trust to vedamer...@yahoo.de. 
It was sent from: Brahmananda Saraswati Trust, 1900 Capital Boulevard, 
Maharishi Vedic City, IA 52556. You can modify/update your subscription via the 
link below.





 To be removed click here     


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:51 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ]
  On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:13 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
 
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com 
  mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Kirk kirk_bernhardt@
  wrote:
  
  To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!
  
  
  Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy
 words
  seriously.
  
  Please get a checking ! Before it's too late.
  Yeah, Kirk. The New Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a
  minute. It closed years ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.
 
 You are partially right by the way. Action creates reaction. That the dull
 americans did not head Maharishi's most urgent call to create a permanent
 7000 group in that country had to create a reaction.
 
 Katrina, 9/11 are but a few.
 
 As long as the indian Pundits are there you will be alright for now. But
 what will happen if they leave for the lack of funding, or for other reasons
 ?
 You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel leaf?

No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like you.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel leaf?

No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like you.
But they never get to meet me because they live behind a fence. I can
anticipate your response to that one.

[FairfieldLife] Re: What Barry Wright doesn't know

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote
 
 'All Hat, No Cattle'
 Trace Adkins
 
 See that boy standing there by the dance floor
 He's lookin' like the Marlboro Man
 Starched shirt, starched jeans, big trophy buckle
 And an empty Copenhagen can
 He's talkin' cowboy this and cowboy that
 Well I'll bet one thing's for sure
 The only stampede that he's ever seen
 Is the clearance at the western store
 
 All hat and no cattle, that boy just ain't real
 All boots and no saddle, don't know how to make a cowgirl feel
 Think I'm gonna tell him to pack up his act
 And go back where he came from
 'Cause all hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done
 
 He's just a smooth-talkin', long-tall slow-walkin'
 Srugstore-made-up dude
 So honey don't you fall for that fake Texas drawl
 He ain't right for you
 What you need's a man that ain't just a hat stand
 When you get him home
 Well, I don't look like much, but I can sure saddle up
 And ride with you all night long
 
 All nat and no cattle, that boy just ain't real
 All boots and no saddle, don't know how to make a cowgirl feel
 Think I'm gonna tell him to pack up his act
 And go back where he came from
 'Cause all hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done
 
 All hat and no cattle ain't gonna get it done

Very funny :-) Thanks for posting this !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: MSN Poll on Obama

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote:
 
  Fwd from a friend:
  
  MSNBC has a poll up about the President's job so far for the first 
  100 days.  Republicans are flooding it with F votes.   If you feel 
  so inclined, pass this address on and go to it to vote:  
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093
 
 
 Obama has been consistently in the 60% approval range since he got elected: 
 http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm



The conservatives just have a better phone tree concerning online polls and 
Obama
than the liberals do. Easy enough to correct. This message is a good first step.

Speaking as someone who pioneered skewing online political polls for the NLP...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel leaf?
 
 No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like you.
 But they never get to meet me because they live behind a fence. I can
 anticipate your response to that one.

If I had to breath the same air as you in that ridicelous little town I also 
would wish to be very, very far away.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:37 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com 
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel
leaf?
 
 No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like you.
 But they never get to meet me because they live behind a fence. I can
 anticipate your response to that one.

If I had to breath the same air as you in that ridicelous little town I
also would wish to be very, very far away.
But you do breathe the same air as I. From a friend:
I was at a conference last autumn where Deepak was a guest speaker. In his
glittering rhinestone studded, red frame glasses, he told us how his wealth
of knowledge is attributed to Maharishi and how grateful he is to MMY to
have led him to Ayurveda. He spoke true from his heart. He IS a wonderful
soul, indeed...and an eloquent and charismatic speaker. He has the fluidity
of someone who has the knowledge and who wants to share it, his way, of
course. He speaks the language of knowledge in a very beautiful, sure, and
benevolent manner. One can trust and believe that what he says is true. He
even broke down the adage, we are all one, into scientific terms for the
audience.
He explained very systematically how the particles of air we breathe all
contain in them, pieces of each of us that have been floating around for
eons. We exhale pieces of our livers, hearts, stomach, and the whole myriad
of atoms that make up our body. And as such, we are also inhaling these
particles as well, of lions, elephants, ants, mountains, earth, and each
other. We inhale parts of Jesus, Buddha, Paul McCartney, other great and not
so great people too, and others who have walked and are walking this planet.
We hold them for awhile and then release them. His statistics on how quickly
this air exchange on the planet happens were amazing. It was like a month,
very quickly. On top of this, Deepak mentioned how we have a new physiology
after only 7 years. (A great recycling system, in my opinion.) So he then
said, So do you still think we are not all connected?. I thought it was a
great mahavakya. The gathering of about 5,000 people just loved it. You
could hear people exhale in acceptance and awe. Maybe some even woke up!
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
  On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
   
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
  
   You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel leaf?
  
  No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like you.
  But they never get to meet me because they live behind a fence. I can
  anticipate your response to that one.
 
 If I had to breath the same air as you in that ridicelous little town I also 
 would wish to be very, very far away.

Fairfield was and is an  e x p e r i m e n t  implemented by the Masters. If it 
does not work out, for sure the attention will go elsewhere and that silly 
little town will be left to rot. 

Along with the spiritual vampires of Fairfield until now basking in the glow of 
the achievements of the TMO.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Kirk]

Can you spell psycho?


- Original Message - 
From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
  On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
  
   You mean like if they get sick of being denied cigarettes and betel 
   leaf?
 
  No, rather being fed up being in a country populated with fools like 
  you.
  But they never get to meet me because they live behind a fence. I can
  anticipate your response to that one.

 If I had to breath the same air as you in that ridicelous little town I 
 also would wish to be very, very far away.

 Fairfield was and is an  e x p e r i m e n t  implemented by the Masters. 
 If it does not work out, for sure the attention will go elsewhere and that 
 silly little town will be left to rot.

 Along with the spiritual vampires of Fairfield until now basking in the 
 glow of the achievements of the TMO.




 

 To subscribe, send a message to:
 fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com

 Or go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links



 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[dhamiltony2k5]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavisma...@... wrote:

 This might be the best summary rap about the movement.  And you accurately 
 described the arc of my own start in the TMO, too, uncanny.  That's almost 
 exactly the way I came into, and felt about, the movement.


My experience too.  An accurate rap of the time and feeling.  Curtis, I liked 
reading it down to the last lines.  There is a lot of truth there.

Apavitrah Pavito va 
srva vasthan gatopi va
yah smaret pundari-kksham 
sa bahya-bhyantarah shuchihi

Whether pure or impure, whether purity or impurity is permeating everywhere, 
whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner 
and outer purity.

It's true  know it by experience.  Don't you?  Believe it?  It just is and has 
its own justice.  Seems too i read something like this by Plato that Socrates 
said in the Republic.  Like, that was just more than religion.  Is just the 
truth.  That's a way i heard it back when i was seventeen, heard about TM  
started meditating then.
-Doug in FF
 
 That is, of course, the one big reason why FFL is valuable -- not a lot of 
 folk have this type of history.  Excellent rap, thanks.
 
 **
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote:
  
   I'd say we do a poll of how many would've learnt TM
   if they knew it was going to be like this but I think
   some of us might have lost thier objectivity.
  
  
  I was only 16 whe I went to my intro, and at the time very religiously 
  motivated.  I had been doing yoga for about 6 months (my friend and I did 
  assanas in the waiting room before being initiated ,much to the chagrin of 
  our teacher who sent someone out to tell us to cool it! I was kind of 
  shocked when they taught us assanas on my first residence course because 
  the teacher made it seem like thery weren't necessary with TM.  He had been 
  worried that I was doing unauthorized assanas, not purified by Maharishi's 
  approval.)
  
  Having read the Meditations of Maharishi, the reprint of 4 SRM pamphlets 
  before the intro, I had some pointed questions about God realization which 
  were quickly stifled during the intro and again during the private 
  interview after the prep. They gave me just enough wink wink nudge nudge 
  that ALL my desires would be fulfilled with TM that I went ahead.  But like 
  most teens dealing with adults (they were only in their mid 20's) I sensed 
  that pushing them further would not be cool.  It felt a little weird and it 
  took me a while to get used to the duplicity game of TM language. After the 
  advanced lecture which dealt with God realization openly, I questioned them 
  about their dodginess at the intro and got the whole wise shouldn't delude 
  the ignorant angle.  As a snarky teen I ate that shit up!  Yeah, that's 
  the ticket, I'M the wise and we just feed the scientific charts to the 
  ignorant.  I started doing intro lectures with the teacher that first year 
  and learned the rules of talking to the public and how little we could 
  trust their ignorant asses with the deeper perspective.  So I was down with 
  the religious angle from the start and would have more happily started 
  without the SIMS shuffle routine.  I was hardcore SRM baby!
  
  I enjoyed being an insider but I sensed the duplicity from the start and 
  the mixed message almost kept me from starting TM. I wanted GC, not lower 
  blood lactate!  But the calming reassurance of the charts did reinforce 
  that it was a real experience. On another level I did take the charts 
  seriously, not knowing my total inability to interpret their actual meaning 
  or scientific merit.Or the teachers for that matter, who were not college 
  grads.  It had a truthiness vibe that worked on me.
  
  Taking and teaching SCI the next year developed the double line shtick as 
  an instinct.  I was an insider now, a KNOWER of reality.  Oh yeah!  MIU 
  TTC, more of the same message about the levels of knowledge and how to dole 
  it out from my lEVEL.  MY LEVEL!  It wasn't that I thought I was so great 
  because there were so many above my LEVEL that kept my ego in check, but it 
  did impress on me that the public was on a lower level.  It was US against 
  THEM, and they couldn't be trusted to follow what was best for them.   We 
  held the thin golden line between the public and God realization.
  
  I'm glad everyone has more access to all the movement's teaching and 
  perspective with the Internet.  I believe that the movement's best PR move 
  would be to embrace their cultural identity as Hindu-lite and give up the 
  smirky we are just like you, impression.  Belief-wise movement people 
  aren't just like me.  They hold a set of beliefs and assumptions that the 
  general public either doesn't know about, doesn't care about, doesn't agree 
  with, or has their own version of 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[Peter]

--- On Mon, 4/20/09, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote:
From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 5:31 PM













 
 
 
 
 




















From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:13 PM

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star 





   







--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
Kirk kirk_bernha...@... wrote:



To follow such mad people is itself even crazier!





Agreed, no-one in his sound mind would ever consider taking your crazy words
seriously.



Please get a checking ! Before it's too late. 

Yeah, Kirk. The New
Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a minute. It closed years
ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.

No, Rick, it was all the sodomites in the French Quarter...







   





















 




  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions and answers about the Star

[I am the eternal]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com wrote:


 Please get a checking ! Before it's too late.

 Yeah, Kirk. The New
 Orleans TM Center closes in half an hour. Oh, wait a minute. It closed
 years
 ago. That's why Katrina struck the city.

 No, Rick, it was all the sodomites in the French Quarter...


Deja vu all over again.  I seem to recall reading similar words here some
years ago.

This post requires downloading some Active-X controls and XSS'ing.  It's all
safe, just say yes to the questions.

[FairfieldLife] At least we're winnin' on the Fox Evening News

[Vaj]

Studio version of of RT's Dad's Gonna Kill Me with images to match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBCiYBMuuxQ

Acoustic Version

Dad = Baghdad
Frankenstein - A HUMV customised with extra armour plating
Muzzle Monkey - A GI
Angel - A GI deceased
Willie Pete - White Phosphorus
Ali Baba - Any Arab


Out in the desert theres a soldier lying dead
Vultures pecking the eyes out of his head
Another day that could have been me there instead
Nobody loves me here
Nobody loves me here

Dads Gonna Kill Me
Dads Gonna Kill Me

You hit the booby trap and youre in pieces
With every bullet your risk increases
Old Ali Baba, hes a different species
Nobody loves me here
Nobody loves me here

Im dead meat in my HumV Frankenstein
I hit the road block, God knows I never hit the mine
The dice rolled and I got lucky this time

Ive got a wife, a kid, another on the way
I might get home if I can live through today
Before I came out here I never used to pray
Nobody loves me here
Nobody loves me here

Dads in a bad mood, Dads got the blues
Its someone elses mess that I didnt choose
At least were winning on the Fox Evening News
Nobody loves me here

Dawn Patrol went out and didnt come back
Hug the wire and pray like I told you, Mac
Or theyll be shovelling bits of you into a sack

And whos that stranger walking in my dreams
And whose that stranger cast a shadow cross my heart
And whos that stranger, I dare speak his name
Must be old Death a-walking
Must be old Death a-walking

7 muzzle monkeys standing in a row
Standing waiting for The Sandbox to blow
Sitting targets in the wild west show
Nobody loves me here

Another angel got his wings this week
Charbroiled with his own Willie Pete
Nobodys dying if you speak double-speak

Dads Gonna Kill Me

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Apr 18 00:00:00 2009
End Date (UTC): Sat Apr 25 00:00:00 2009
334 messages as of (UTC) Tue Apr 21 00:09:51 2009

42 authfriend jst...@panix.com
25 Richard J. Williams willy...@yahoo.com
23 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
22 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com
22 Marek Reavis reavisma...@sbcglobal.net
19 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com
16 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net
14 Kirk kirk_bernha...@cox.net
14 I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com
13 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com
12 bob_brigante no_re...@yahoogroups.com
12 grate.swan no_re...@yahoogroups.com
11 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com
10 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com
 9 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com
 7 lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net
 5 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com
 5 enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 5 Mike Doughney m...@doughney.com
 4 shempmcgurk shempmcg...@netscape.net
 4 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 4 Nelson nelsonriddle2...@yahoo.com
 4 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 4 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net
 3 sparaig lengli...@cox.net
 3 dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com
 3 Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com
 3 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com
 2 shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca
 2 michael vedamer...@yahoo.de
 2 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com
 2 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com
 1 jyouells2000 john_youe...@comcast.net
 1 geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com
 1 ffl...@yahoo.com
 1 arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com
 1 wle...@aol.com
 1 Patrick Gillam jpgil...@yahoo.com
 1 Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com
 1 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote:
 
  This might be the best summary rap about the movement.  And you accurately 
  described the arc of my own start in the TMO, too, uncanny.  That's almost 
  exactly the way I came into, and felt about, the movement.
 
 
 My experience too.  An accurate rap of the time and feeling.  Curtis, I liked 
 reading it down to the last lines.  There is a lot of truth there.

Thanks Doug, much appreciated.  We have all shared some version of this path no 
matter where we have ended up.

 
 Apavitrah Pavito va 
 srva vasthan gatopi va
 yah smaret pundari-kksham 
 sa bahya-bhyantarah shuchihi
 
 Whether pure or impure, whether purity or impurity is permeating everywhere, 
 whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains 
 inner and outer purity.

Purity is s overrated!



 
 It's true  know it by experience.  Don't you?  Believe it?  It just is and 
 has its own justice.  Seems too i read something like this by Plato that 
 Socrates said in the Republic.  Like, that was just more than religion.  Is 
 just the truth.  That's a way i heard it back when i was seventeen, heard 
 about TM  started meditating then.
 -Doug in FF
  
  That is, of course, the one big reason why FFL is valuable -- not a lot of 
  folk have this type of history.  Excellent rap, thanks.
  
  **
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote:
   
I'd say we do a poll of how many would've learnt TM
if they knew it was going to be like this but I think
some of us might have lost thier objectivity.
   
   
   I was only 16 whe I went to my intro, and at the time very religiously 
   motivated.  I had been doing yoga for about 6 months (my friend and I did 
   assanas in the waiting room before being initiated ,much to the chagrin 
   of our teacher who sent someone out to tell us to cool it! I was kind of 
   shocked when they taught us assanas on my first residence course because 
   the teacher made it seem like thery weren't necessary with TM.  He had 
   been worried that I was doing unauthorized assanas, not purified by 
   Maharishi's approval.)
   
   Having read the Meditations of Maharishi, the reprint of 4 SRM pamphlets 
   before the intro, I had some pointed questions about God realization 
   which were quickly stifled during the intro and again during the private 
   interview after the prep. They gave me just enough wink wink nudge nudge 
   that ALL my desires would be fulfilled with TM that I went ahead.  But 
   like most teens dealing with adults (they were only in their mid 20's) I 
   sensed that pushing them further would not be cool.  It felt a little 
   weird and it took me a while to get used to the duplicity game of TM 
   language. After the advanced lecture which dealt with God realization 
   openly, I questioned them about their dodginess at the intro and got the 
   whole wise shouldn't delude the ignorant angle.  As a snarky teen I ate 
   that shit up!  Yeah, that's the ticket, I'M the wise and we just feed the 
   scientific charts to the ignorant.  I started doing intro lectures with 
   the teacher that first year and learned the rules of talking to the 
   public and how little we could trust their ignorant asses with the 
   deeper perspective.  So I was down with the religious angle from the 
   start and would have more happily started without the SIMS shuffle 
   routine.  I was hardcore SRM baby!
   
   I enjoyed being an insider but I sensed the duplicity from the start and 
   the mixed message almost kept me from starting TM. I wanted GC, not lower 
   blood lactate!  But the calming reassurance of the charts did reinforce 
   that it was a real experience. On another level I did take the charts 
   seriously, not knowing my total inability to interpret their actual 
   meaning or scientific merit.Or the teachers for that matter, who were not 
   college grads.  It had a truthiness vibe that worked on me.
   
   Taking and teaching SCI the next year developed the double line shtick as 
   an instinct.  I was an insider now, a KNOWER of reality.  Oh yeah!  MIU 
   TTC, more of the same message about the levels of knowledge and how to 
   dole it out from my lEVEL.  MY LEVEL!  It wasn't that I thought I was so 
   great because there were so many above my LEVEL that kept my ego in 
   check, but it did impress on me that the public was on a lower level.  It 
   was US against THEM, and they couldn't be trusted to follow what was best 
   for them.   We held the thin golden line between the public and God 
   realization.
   
   I'm glad everyone has more access to all the movement's teaching and 
   perspective with the Internet.  I believe that the movement's best PR 
   move would be to embrace 

[FairfieldLife] Hurricane-Killing, Space-Based Power Plant

[I am the eternal]

This is the same company cited here last week which intends to beam energy
from space to power PGE.

Now it intends to kill hurricanes.

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/weathermod.html

http://tinyurl.com/df6j7h

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurricane-Killing, Space-Based Power Plant

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote:

 This is the same company cited here last week which intends to beam energy
 from space to power PGE.
 
 Now it intends to kill hurricanes.
 
 http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/weathermod.html
 
 http://tinyurl.com/df6j7h


*

http://moneybin.at.infoseek.co.jp/gyro_gearloose.html