[FairfieldLife] [YN?] Stephen Fry in America (MVC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry_in_America About 30 minutes into episode 3 there's a couple of minutes about Maharishi Vedic City (interview with Fred Travis).
[FairfieldLife] Re: [YN?] Stephen Fry in America (MVC)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry_in_America About 30 minutes into episode 3 there's a couple of minutes about Maharishi Vedic City (interview with Fred Travis). Here's the video: http://areena.yle.fi/video/513343 It might not be available outside Finland, though. In any case it's only available a couple of hours from now on.
[FairfieldLife] ‘America’s Dilemma’
'America's Challenge(s)~Addictions and Denial'... Drugs~Domestic/Legal and Illegal... Drug~War- Afghanistan... Weapons Sales~Domestic and International... Lack of local businesses... Lack of creative production... Addiction to T.V. Addiction to Computers. Addiction to Loveless Sex. Addiction to Alcohol. Addiction to Money. Addiction to Work. Addiction to junk food. A Defunct Educational System. An almost complete corporatism of the American Culture. But, wait!... There is the 'Audacity of Hope'... And, it's all Maya anyway... So, Om Shri Shivayai Namah! Be gone, you bad rakshasa and ignorance! OK? R,G.
[FairfieldLife] India rulez ok?
Just learned that the Finnish-German Nokia Siemens Networks has prolly an Indian born CEO(?), Rajeev Suri: http://www.nokia.com/A4632386
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual vs Spiritism
snip However, is noteable to find Maharaj Tony and Raja Konhaus lately 'pitching' channeling and spiritualism as a direction for re-kindle and salvation for the TMmovement after Maharishi, in distinction to what was a meditator shakti movement. Seemingly becomes now a contest on the road to Damascus to find who 'hears' from Maharishi the clearest, as they are framing it. I must have missed this. When and where and how, exactly, have Tony and Konhaus pitched channeling and spiritualism and hearing from Maharishi? Do we know this for a fact? What are some examples? Judy, You do have amazing research skills evidently some time. Take a look at an index to FFL, scroll down to the area around Maharishi's death. That will get you to the area. Was in the movement's global chats and the Maharishi Open University broadcasts that these guys gave in that time of freefall. Almost seemed they started down the road to Damascus towards being a spiritualist organization and were called back to being a spirituality group. Would bet Euros that they have taken down the links now. However, was something that evidently got played out at the inner TM circle in Vlodrop at the time as they were trying to sort themselves out and find language for themselves and the TMmovement in those days. Sorry you missed it the first time around. It seemed noteworthy and evidently has passed. -Doug in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual vs Spiritism
Translation: This existed in Doug's mind only. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: snip However, is noteable to find Maharaj Tony and Raja Konhaus lately 'pitching' channeling and spiritualism as a direction for re-kindle and salvation for the TMmovement after Maharishi, in distinction to what was a meditator shakti movement. Seemingly becomes now a contest on the road to Damascus to find who 'hears' from Maharishi the clearest, as they are framing it. I must have missed this. When and where and how, exactly, have Tony and Konhaus pitched channeling and spiritualism and hearing from Maharishi? Do we know this for a fact? What are some examples? Judy, You do have amazing research skills evidently some time. Take a look at an index to FFL, scroll down to the area around Maharishi's death. That will get you to the area. Was in the movement's global chats and the Maharishi Open University broadcasts that these guys gave in that time of freefall. Almost seemed they started down the road to Damascus towards being a spiritualist organization and were called back to being a spirituality group. Would bet Euros that they have taken down the links now. However, was something that evidently got played out at the inner TM circle in Vlodrop at the time as they were trying to sort themselves out and find language for themselves and the TMmovement in those days. Sorry you missed it the first time around. It seemed noteworthy and evidently has passed. -Doug in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: movie suggestion-
Huh? EbertRopert give it 2 thumbs up 20th Century Fox movie PG 13, no biggie-good content tho,doesn't need the graphic ness produced by David Hamilton 2005 copyright --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote: On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:01 PM, meowthirteen meowthirt...@... wrote: Just watched 'Water' it's on DVD I'm not paying for an international anonymous VPN for nothing. Who's hosting the torrent seed to it? -- Life is not what you see, but what you've projected. It's not what you've felt, but what you've decided. It's not what you've experienced, but how you've remembered it. It's not what you've forged, but what you've allowed. And it's not who's appeared, but who you've summoned.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Should you eat meat?
Everybody loves a crisis! From: ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@netscape.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 12:35:41 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Should you eat meat? --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_ stan...@. .. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: ShempMcGurk wrote: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2009/11/09/091109crbo_books_kolbert I'm not going to read somebody's 4 page musing on the eating of meat. If it helps you feel better then eat meat. If it makes you feel worse then don't eat meat. And challenge those positions from time to time because the body changes and so do the demands of the season. The focus of the article is the inhumane treatment of animals in factory farm confinements. IMO, meat from such operations is best avoided. Realistically, though, humanely raised meat from small farms is not likely to ever be more than a small niche product. As for sustainability, there's really nothing sustainable about 7 billion humans on earth. Large scale mechanized agriculture loses topsoil faster than it is created, so at some point in the future, Malthus is going to be right. I don't know very much about agriculture but I do remember being in MIU in the mid-70s and all the talk then in Iowa was how all the topsoil would be gone in 20 years. It's now 35 years later...how' s the topsoil doing there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual vs Spiritism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: Translation: This existed in Doug's mind only. I do suspect you're right. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: snip However, is noteable to find Maharaj Tony and Raja Konhaus lately 'pitching' channeling and spiritualism as a direction for re-kindle and salvation for the TMmovement after Maharishi, in distinction to what was a meditator shakti movement. Seemingly becomes now a contest on the road to Damascus to find who 'hears' from Maharishi the clearest, as they are framing it. I must have missed this. When and where and how, exactly, have Tony and Konhaus pitched channeling and spiritualism and hearing from Maharishi? Do we know this for a fact? What are some examples? Judy, You do have amazing research skills evidently some time. Take a look at an index to FFL, scroll down to the area around Maharishi's death. That will get you to the area. Was in the movement's global chats and the Maharishi Open University broadcasts that these guys gave in that time of freefall. Almost seemed they started down the road to Damascus towards being a spiritualist organization and were called back to being a spirituality group. Would bet Euros that they have taken down the links now. However, was something that evidently got played out at the inner TM circle in Vlodrop at the time as they were trying to sort themselves out and find language for themselves and the TMmovement in those days. Sorry you missed it the first time around. It seemed noteworthy and evidently has passed. -Doug in FF
[FairfieldLife] CNN Poll: One year later, 54 percent approve of Obama
CNN Poll: One year later, 54 percent approve of Obama November 3rd, 2009 [One year after he won an historical presidential election, a slight majority of Americans approve of the job Barack Obama's doing in the White House.] One year after he won an historical presidential election, a slight majority of Americans approve of the job Barack Obama's doing in the White House. WASHINGTON (CNN) - One year after he won an historical presidential election, a slight majority of Americans approve of the job Barack Obama's doing in the White House. Fifty-four percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday morning approve of how Obama's handling his duties as president, with 45 percent saying they disapprove. Obama's approval rating of 54 percent is nearly identical to the 53 percent of the vote he won a year ago, notes CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. And in nearly every demographic category, the percent that approve of Obama today is within two to three points of the percent who voted for him in 2008. It's a different story when we turn to ideology. His approval rating among liberals is seven points higher than the number of liberals who voted for him. But among conservatives, the number who like Obama today is down 10 points compared to his share of the vote among that group in 2008. The survey suggests that the president's approval rating remains over 50 percent even though most Americans disapprove of how Obama is handling the economy, health care, Afghanistan, Iraq, unemployment, illegal immigration and the federal budget deficit. How does he do it? By retaining a reservoir of goodwill left over from his election to the White House a year ago. Six in ten say Obama inspires confidence in them; six in ten also call him a strong leader who is honest and trustworthy. 63 percent say he is not a typical politician. More than half gives Obama a thumbs-up on 11 of the 12 personal characteristics tested, adds Holland. Only 45 percent say he has a clear plan for solving the country's problems - the only item on which a majority has a negative view of him. It's a different story when it comes to issues. More than half have a positive view on Obama on only three of the 14 issues noted in the survey. Obama does get a 62 percent approval rating on the environment and - despite recent vaccine shortages 57 percent approve of how he has handled the government response to the H1N1 flu. But a bare majority 51 percent - approve of how Obama is handling foreign policy overall even though he gets some of his lowest scores on Iraq and Afghanistan. Three days after winning the election, then president-elect Obama he would succeed if we put aside partisanship and politics and work together as one nation. That's what I intend to do. Do Americans think the president will unite the country? The poll indicates Americans are divided, with 51 percent saying Obama will united the country and 48 percent feeling he will not succeed in ending partisanship. Another factor that may be boosting Obama's overall rating is the inevitable comparison with the man he replaced in the Oval Office. 57 percent say Obama has been a better president than George W. Bush; only a third say Bush's track record was better. Compared to Obama, Bush does fairly well among southerners and rural voters. But even in those categories, a majority still says Obama has done a better job than Bush, says Holland. The survey also suggests that by 24 points, Americans think that Joe Biden is a better vice president than Dick Cheney. The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted October 30-November 1, with 1,018 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points. http://snipurl.com/t1fbe [politicalticker_blogs_cnn_com]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual vs Spiritism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: [quoting Doug:] snip However, is noteable to find Maharaj Tony and Raja Konhaus lately 'pitching' channeling and spiritualism as a direction for re-kindle and salvation for the TMmovement after Maharishi, in distinction to what was a meditator shakti movement. Seemingly becomes now a contest on the road to Damascus to find who 'hears' from Maharishi the clearest, as they are framing it. [I wrote:] I must have missed this. When and where and how, exactly, have Tony and Konhaus pitched channeling and spiritualism and hearing from Maharishi? Do we know this for a fact? What are some examples? Judy, You do have amazing research skills evidently some time. Take a look at an index to FFL, scroll down to the area around Maharishi's death. That will get you to the area. Was in the movement's global chats and the Maharishi Open University broadcasts that these guys gave in that time of freefall. Almost seemed they started down the road to Damascus towards being a spiritualist organization and were called back to being a spirituality group. Funny thing, because I've been watching like a hawk for this kind of nonsense ever since MMY died-- especially right after he died--and never saw anything posted here that even remotely fits your description quoted above. The reason I was on the alert for it is that I had previously speculated about the possibility. As I recall, the first time I mentioned it was when it was announced that MMY had anointed King Tony as his successor, and some were surprised because that was well before there was any sign that he was close to leaving us. I said then that I thought he had done so because (1) he wanted to avoid any succession controversy like what occurred with Guru Dev; and (2) he figured if there was someone very visibly in command of the TMO when he died, there would be less chance of the movement splitting into factions on the basis of who claimed to have been told what by MMY from the Great Beyond. Would bet Euros that they have taken down the links now. However, was something that evidently got played out at the inner TM circle in Vlodrop at the time as they were trying to sort themselves out and find language for themselves and the TMmovement in those days. If you're talking about the notion that MMY was in heaven watching over us, this is what I thought too. I didn't find it alarming in the slightest, and it never appeared to progress any further. If anything did come up along the lines you suggest in what I quoted at the top, it must have been very quickly stomped on before it seeped out. Sorry you missed it the first time around. It seemed noteworthy and evidently has passed. If it has passed, why do you keep quoting it in your indexing posts? BTW, for those who insist that the idea of MMY's essence continuing to exist out in the ether in some sense goes against his own teaching that all individuality disappears when an enlightened person dies, I wonder how they would explain the puja to Guru Dev, as well as this from MMY's Gita commentary: The holy tradition of great masters, which is responsible for reviving the teaching after every lapse, has captured the mind and heart of lovers of Truth in every age. It is not merely held in high regard, but has come to be actually worshipped by seekers of Truth and knowers of Reality. A verse* recording the names of the greatest and most highly revered masters has not only inspired seekers, but has been a joy even to the fulfilled hearts of realized souls passing through the long corridor of time. * See Appendix [which quotes the puja]. --Commentary to 4:2 in MMY's Gita translation (copyright 1967)
[FairfieldLife] Many Paths
There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching
[FairfieldLife] Deepak Chopra On Using Psychotrophic Drugs - Integral NHNE
http://integralnhne.ning.com/forum/topics/deepak-chopra-on-using
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam wrote: Funny thing: I still believe desirable behaviors come with functioning from what I call the higher self, and evil arises from functioning from what I call the lower self, or ego. Definitely *not* what MMY taught, nor what the Gita says. Okay, Judy - if we're going to discuss this, let's parse the vocabulary first. The higher self, to me, is the pure consciousness by which we apprehend everything. The lower self is the individually created sense of self made up of beliefs, affiliations, values and other relative stuff. It is sustained by ignorance, and exalted in enlightenment. I thought this worldview was quite compatible with the vedic weltanschauung I picked up from Maharishi. You're seeing conflicts?
Re: [FairfieldLife] movie suggestion-
Try her other movies Fire, Earth, Hollywood/Bollywood and Heaven On Earth (which I haven't seen) . TM tie-in: her ex-husband, a photographer, was on the course at Rishikesh with the Beatles and published a book of photos from the course. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0576548/ meowthirteen wrote: Just watched 'Water' wow So many social religious humane things brought to light You all will enjoy this it's on DVD a few really poignant lines in it -A Deepa Mehta film If you see it, throw out a holler really amazing after the film I could just sit there at the blank screen and contemplate all that transpired I really like to be filled like that Here's hoping it brings you thoughts too --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: ‘Keep Your Eyes on the Prize’ You never know, who is watching you, reading your mind... How many eyes, are on you. But, never mind about it... Keep your eye on the prize... Because they’ll bet against you, if they see you winning But, don’t worry about it. Keep your eyes on the prize... And go for it. You only live a thousand times... r.g. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgil...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam wrote: Funny thing: I still believe desirable behaviors come with functioning from what I call the higher self, and evil arises from functioning from what I call the lower self, or ego. Definitely *not* what MMY taught, nor what the Gita says. Okay, Judy - if we're going to discuss this, let's parse the vocabulary first. The higher self, to me, is the pure consciousness by which we apprehend everything. The lower self is the individually created sense of self made up of beliefs, affiliations, values and other relative stuff. It is sustained by ignorance, and exalted in enlightenment. I thought this worldview was quite compatible with the vedic weltanschauung I picked up from Maharishi. You're seeing conflicts? No, I don't have any problem with this. What I'm thinking of is 2:54-72 in the Gita, in which Krishna answers Arjuna's question about what the signs are of a man whose intellect is steady (i.e., who is enlightened). Commenting on 2:55, the first verse of Krishna's response, MMY writes: This verse does not record any outer sign of the man whose intellect is steady and who is established in the Self, because there cannot be any outer sign to show that a man is absorbed deep within himself. The inner state of such a man cannot be judged by outer signsThe signs recounted here are only subjective. They concern the inner condition of the mind as indicated by 'casts off all desires' and 'is satisfied in the Self.' That seems pretty definitive and unambiguous to me. How would you reconcile it with what you believe? (Not saying you have to--obviously you're free to believe to the contrary!) There's also the issue of defining desirable behavior. Elsewhere in the Gita is the famous Unfathomable are the fruits of action. I mentioned in another post that Michael Dean Goodman explains that in the phrase spontaneous right action, the emphasis should be on spontaneous, not right. In ignorance, we experience ourselves as authors of our actions; in enlightenment, our experience is that the gunas perform all action--which means that ultimately all action is right as far as Nature is concerned (or neither right nor wrong, depending on how you look at it). The only question is whether we perform action while worrying about whether or not it's right, with the resultant psychological strain, or just perform action spontaneously with no strain, as in enlightenment. That's according to Michael, at any rate. But it's consistent with what MMY taught and with the Gita, at least in his interpretation, as far as I can tell. Over to you... - Caveat for the terminally literal-minded (you know who you are): I'm talking about what MMY and the Gita *say*, not whether what MMY and the Gita say is *correct*. I'm happy to relate what I think about the latter if anyone is interested, but that isn't what I'm discussing at the moment.
[FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:22pm IST RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi court of cassation upheld a ruling to behead and crucify a 22-year-old man convicted of raping five children and leaving one of them to die in the desert, newspapers reported on Tuesday. The convict was arrested earlier this year after a seven-year old boy helped police in their investigation. The child left in the desert after the rape was three years old, Okaz newspaper said. International rights groups have accused the kingdom, the birthplace of Islam, of applying draconian justice, beheading murderers, rapists and drug traffickers in public. So far this year about 40 people have been executed in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, crucifixion means tying the body of the convict to wooden beams to be displayed to the public after beheading. (Reporting by Souhail Karam; editing by Inal Ersan)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
yifuxero wrote: What % of that is due to the Shakti and what % due to Pure Consciousness? Shakti is the Supreme Brahman itself, wholly transcendent - Brahman is Pure Conciousness. The place was once a celebrated centre of learning headed by Kashmiri Brahmins... Sharada Peeth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharada_Peeth Sri Sharadamba temple is a famous Hindu dedicated to goddess Saraswati located in the holy town of Shringeri in Karnataka, India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shringeri_Sharadamba_temple
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching Talk about harshing my mellow. Moses did genocide, Hindus love absolutes and indulge in righteous anger, Muslims cut off clits, Buddhists kidnap children to be their popes, Witch Doctors shake bones and people die, Brother Obama says yes we can, it all blends...I'm in BCblurry consciousness. Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 7:43 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 4:24 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? Oh definitely, as I explained to you off list, there's (suprisingly to me) a huge difference. I rather had your experience in mind when phrasing the question. Thanks. It's important to point out, this is the same experience Barry has shared before, of being shocked from applying a more balanced and sigh effortful attention; it provided a shockingly deeper transcendence than what we were taught that was, well, effortless and pure what we had to have if we were On The Program. It was a bizarre contradiction which was, I guess, unavoidable. Being faced though with a life of cultivating a fabricated transcendent, this previously coveted illusion was instantly and easily left behind. No attachment at all. Pure Teflon-consciousness. :-) Alas, my fears of effort were just that...mere fabricated fears. The joke was, ultimately, on me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Duh! Getting rid of a soul and gaining the Absolute is the best trade what am! Where in any Advaita literature can you find the Absolute being unsatisfactory? Ya dumb fuck -- It's Parkay vs. Butter. It's Pinocchio vs Real Boy. But I guess someone who sees himself as ersatz gem and a lardy marionette kinda guy can't help himself. I'll bet you wear a huge pinky ring: pure zircon. Edg Edg, I love your big phoney pompous ass description of Barry. At first I imagined him as a pimp with a lot of bling but I couldn't find a white guy wearing bling on Google images. So in keeping with the phony metaphor, I settled on portraying Barry as the dandy man, complete with pinkey ring: [http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/20591.jpg] --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: At one point, all paths can diverge into 2 ultimate outcomes: given the premise that all people will realize the Self in due time; there are 2 basic outcomes: 1. Relative existence for some relative body continues or; 2. Does not, no more existence. ...(let's not consider any variations such as temporary existence after death then a final dissolution). Therefore, there are 2 mountains. TM is in #2, while (conceptually speaking), many other paths are in #1. Yup. The dissolution thang never appealed to me. My reaction to Maharishi insisting that it was the only possibility after enlightenment always seemed 1) anti-intuitive, 2) absolutist, in the sense that there would be some end point to evolution beyond which one could not progress, and 3) a philosophy that appeals to those who don't like life much and in fact are a little afraid of it or regard it with disgust. It's the last that made me reject the idea com- pletely, even before I discovered other spiritual paths that postulated lots of other possibilities for what can happen when you die after enlighten- ment. I *like* life. I *like* existence. Yeah, transcendence is cool and all, but so is daily life, in all its infinite varieties. I see no hierarchical betterness between the two experiences. Besides, where is the *compassion* in getting all enlightened and then retiring with your gold watch? What a waste. It seems awfully selfish: I've done my time and earned my gold watch, so fuck the rest of you. To me it would be much more fun to keep coming back to help others get enlightened so that they could keep coming back and help others, and so on. Or, for that matter, to just get to come back and go through the whole process all over again, from scratch. One teacher I worked with proposed three main paths available to the enlightened being when they die: * They could decide to go for dissolution...the drop returning to the ocean thang. * They could decide to reincarnate, and keep on truckin'. * They could decide not to decide, and just dive into the Bardo and see what happens. Of these options, color me a fan of Door Number 3.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
At one point, all paths can diverge into 2 ultimate outcomes: given the premise that all people will realize the Self in due time; there are 2 basic outcomes: 1. Relative existence for some relative body continues or; 2. Does not, no more existence. ...(let's not consider any variations such as temporary existence after death then a final dissolution). Therefore, there are 2 mountains. TM is in #2, while (conceptually speaking), many other paths are in #1. The bottom line is that the most undesirable outcomes for Christian fundies and orthodoxies (no more existence of a Soul); is the desired outcome for people in the TM philosophical camp. Interesting! ... Of course one can simply practice TM as a technique like I do and get into the #1 evolutionary path. But #2 (MMY's path - i.e. the basic philosophy/metaphysics beyond the mere technique); calls for an actual end to evolution. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
Doesn't account for a-Dharmic acts on the part of Self-Realized people; such as child molestations and thievery. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam wrote: Funny thing: I still believe desirable behaviors come with functioning from what I call the higher self, and evil arises from functioning from what I call the lower self, or ego. Definitely *not* what MMY taught, nor what the Gita says. Okay, Judy - if we're going to discuss this, let's parse the vocabulary first. The higher self, to me, is the pure consciousness by which we apprehend everything. The lower self is the individually created sense of self made up of beliefs, affiliations, values and other relative stuff. It is sustained by ignorance, and exalted in enlightenment. I thought this worldview was quite compatible with the vedic weltanschauung I picked up from Maharishi. You're seeing conflicts? No, I don't have any problem with this. What I'm thinking of is 2:54-72 in the Gita, in which Krishna answers Arjuna's question about what the signs are of a man whose intellect is steady (i.e., who is enlightened). Commenting on 2:55, the first verse of Krishna's response, MMY writes: This verse does not record any outer sign of the man whose intellect is steady and who is established in the Self, because there cannot be any outer sign to show that a man is absorbed deep within himself. The inner state of such a man cannot be judged by outer signsThe signs recounted here are only subjective. They concern the inner condition of the mind as indicated by 'casts off all desires' and 'is satisfied in the Self.' That seems pretty definitive and unambiguous to me. How would you reconcile it with what you believe? (Not saying you have to--obviously you're free to believe to the contrary!) There's also the issue of defining desirable behavior. Elsewhere in the Gita is the famous Unfathomable are the fruits of action. I mentioned in another post that Michael Dean Goodman explains that in the phrase spontaneous right action, the emphasis should be on spontaneous, not right. In ignorance, we experience ourselves as authors of our actions; in enlightenment, our experience is that the gunas perform all action--which means that ultimately all action is right as far as Nature is concerned (or neither right nor wrong, depending on how you look at it). The only question is whether we perform action while worrying about whether or not it's right, with the resultant psychological strain, or just perform action spontaneously with no strain, as in enlightenment. That's according to Michael, at any rate. But it's consistent with what MMY taught and with the Gita, at least in his interpretation, as far as I can tell. Over to you... - Caveat for the terminally literal-minded (you know who you are): I'm talking about what MMY and the Gita *say*, not whether what MMY and the Gita say is *correct*. I'm happy to relate what I think about the latter if anyone is interested, but that isn't what I'm discussing at the moment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: At one point, all paths can diverge into 2 ultimate outcomes: given the premise that all people will realize the Self in due time; there are 2 basic outcomes: 1. Relative existence for some relative body continues or; 2. Does not, no more existence. ...(let's not consider any variations such as temporary existence after death then a final dissolution). Therefore, there are 2 mountains. TM is in #2, while (conceptually speaking), many other paths are in #1. Yup. The dissolution thang never appealed to me. My reaction to Maharishi insisting that it was the only possibility after enlightenment always seemed 1) anti-intuitive, 2) absolutist, in the sense that there would be some end point to evolution beyond which one could not progress, and 3) a philosophy that appeals to those who don't like life much and in fact are a little afraid of it or regard it with disgust. It's the last that made me reject the idea com- pletely, even before I discovered other spiritual paths that postulated lots of other possibilities for what can happen when you die after enlighten- ment. I *like* life. I *like* existence. Yeah, transcendence is cool and all, but so is daily life, in all its infinite varieties. I see no hierarchical betterness between the two experiences. Besides, where is the *compassion* in getting all enlightened and then retiring with your gold watch? What a waste. It seems awfully selfish: I've done my time and earned my gold watch, so fuck the rest of you. To me it would be much more fun to keep coming back to help others get enlightened so that they could keep coming back and help others, and so on. Or, for that matter, to just get to come back and go through the whole process all over again, from scratch. One teacher I worked with proposed three main paths available to the enlightened being when they die: * They could decide to go for dissolution...the drop returning to the ocean thang. Sounds boring but then there would probably be no intellect to experience the boredom. * They could decide to reincarnate, and keep on truckin'. Ugh, childhood again. You really want to re-experience that? Maybe on another planet where childhood is different. Of course these days the prospect of being in my 20's again... ;-) * They could decide not to decide, and just dive into the Bardo and see what happens. Of these options, color me a fan of Door Number 3. Or become a ghost haunt the elite and make them miserable for making this lifetime miserable for the masses.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
On Nov 3, 2009, at 12:13 PM, ShempMcGurk wrote: In Saudi Arabia, crucifixion means tying the body of the convict to wooden beams to be displayed to the public after beheading. If we're going to look at this, from the level of consciousness of this place, this kingdom (have you seen the movie?)--the guy didn't use his head to anally rape these boys--he used his cock and balls. So therefore, if we're looking at this from a level of consciousness where Hammurabi's Code is considered the collective consensus of the place, it's pretty simple: you don't cut off this guys head and make a pubic spectacle. You castrate him completely and make a public spectacle. Knowing several counselors who works with sex offenders, I also know these people, unless closely watched, will still re-offend. It's amazing the raw cunning of one who would rape another living being. Even in one of the most sexually and female oppressive places on the planet (THE most?), if you're an addict, you'll try to do it again. Even if public castration is your possible fate. Surgical castration could actually work. But I dunno the stats on that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching Talk about harshing my mellow. Moses did genocide, Hindus love absolutes and indulge in righteous anger, Muslims cut off clits, Buddhists kidnap children to be their popes, Witch Doctors shake bones and people die, Brother Obama says yes we can, it all blends...I'm in BCblurry consciousness. Edg Life itself is a path, Yoga is just a shortcut! It's up to you if it will be a rocky path or a smooth one depending on how you play the game. Part of playing the game effectively is knowing the RULES. Scriptures, though imperfect, attempt to define the rules, regardlessthere ARE rules!
[FairfieldLife] Official disclosure of extraterrestrial life is imminent - Des Moines Register
http://www.examiner.com/x-2383-Honolulu-Exopolitics-Examiner~y2009m10d21-Off icial-disclosure-of-extraterrestrial-life-is-imminent http://tinyurl.com/yfxl2e3
[FairfieldLife] Re: D'Souza on life after death
Sorry for the impulsive respond, I do like him regardless of his political affliations --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Huh? I used to hear D'Souza's interviews. In fact I was listening to him being interviewed last night on Coast to Coast about this new book and his controversial views. http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/1/15/194522.shtml http://www.dineshdsouza.com/articles/Letfreedomring.html I'm sure you'll love the guy. sgrayatlarge wrote: Pathetic attempt at villanizing tantric --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Dinesh D'Souza was a big supporter of BushCo and the NeoCon empire building. Must be looking for new pastures to mine. Rick Archer wrote: Heaven Can Wait A new book promises incontrovertible proof of the afterlife. That's cold comfort to those of us left behind. http://www.newsweek.com/id/220296?GT1=43002 By http://search.newsweek.com/search?byline=jerry%20adler Jerry Adler | NEWSWEEK Published Oct 30, 2009 From the magazine issue dated Nov 9, 2009 On a spring day last year, three months after the death of my younger son, Max, I opened my front door and saw a butterfly resting on the steps-an Eastern tiger swallowtail, I later determined, a species native to the Northeast but not one I remembered seeing before in the middle of Brooklyn. The date stuck in my mind because, as it happens, it was also my birthday. The butterfly, with its otherworldly beauty and silence, is, of course, a common metaphor for the soul. Its emergence from entombment as a chrysalis may have inspired ideas about human resurrection. In the newsletter of the Compassionate Friends, a support group for bereaved parents, the sudden appearance of butterflies (and birds, cloud formations, and particular songs on the radio) is sometimes cited as evidence of communication from beyond the grave. So let me be clear about where I stand: not only do I not believe it, but I can't understand why anyone would take comfort from it. I would hate to think of Max, with his fierce intelligence and tenacity, reduced to sending mute signals by way of insects. I was put in mind of this by reading a new book by Dinesh D'Souza, provocatively titled http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1596980990#/?tag=nwswk-20 Life After Death: The Evidence, and I can't help wondering what D'Souza, a well-known conservative political commentator starting a second career as a Christian apologist, would make of my experience. To be consistent, he would have to say nothing at all: it is what scientists call anecdotal evidence, useless by definition, and D'Souza's book attempts to build a case on unshakable scientific grounds for the survival of consciousness beyond death. Ghosts, mediums, and miraculous cures by the intercession of saints play no role in his argument, which draws instead on quantum mechanics, neuroscience, and moral philosophy. Life After Death, along with other recent books including mathematician David Berlinski's http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465019374/?tag=nwswk-20 The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions, physicist Frank J. Tripler's http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385514255/?tag=nwswk-20 The Physics of Christianity, and http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594151865/?tag=nwswk-20 The Language of God by the director of the National Institutes of Health, the geneticist Francis S. Collins, constitutes an effort by believers to confront the so-called new atheism on its own intellectual turf, without benefit of scripture or revelation. D'Souza, who likens this to fighting with one hand tied behind his back, is a frequent debating opponent of prominent atheists including Christopher Hitchens ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446697966/?tag=nwswk-20 God Is Not Great) and Sam Harris ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393327655/?tag=nwswk-20 The End of Faith). He regards the emergence of such enemies as a God-given opportunity to bring Christian apologetics into the new century. C. S. Lewis addressed issues from his own era, such as the Holocaust, D'Souza notes, but today we have new questions-about Darwin, brain science, modern physics, and Islamic terrorism. The new atheists have done believers a favor by putting the issue of faith on the agenda. If I'd written this book 10 years ago, people would have asked, 'why?' Some people may still ask. D'Souza takes it as given that we are all consumed with wondering what will happen to us after death, the way all Europeans were in medieval times, and D'Souza himself still is. Believers, of course, need no convincing on the subject of life after death, so D'Souza must address himself to skeptics, who presumably have made their peace with the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? I think that a great deal of the perceived increase of velocity may be due to being *willing* to try another path. Clinging is clinging. Attachment is attach- ment. Whether to a person or a concept or a spiritual path. Drop the weight from your shoulders and you feel lighter...simple as that. As my man Bruce Cockburn once said in a song, If I loose my grip, will I take flight? My experience is Yes. The power of intention, then. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell what makes something happen - a person's actions, or the intention that precedes the action. Sometimes it seems intention is enough, but we follow through with the action to seal the deal, as it were. That man I talked to last week whose attention deficit disorder went away after a few days of TM? He said he noticed a diminution in his ADD upon deciding to learn TM, before he was actually instructed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: This is the most in depth explanation of spontaneous right action I have ever seen. Excellent. Thanks for posting it, Judy. Thanks to Michael for writing it. And there's a lot more where that came from. ;-) I discovered very recently that back in March 2005, at Rick's request, Michael compiled an index of his posts on Vedic knowledge up to that point (#43379). It's a fabulous resource, almost 100 posts. As far as I can tell, the ones I've read are entirely consistent with what MMY taught, a sort of refresher course on the finer points. I've always found his explanations brilliantly clear. Whether he experientially walks his talk, I have no idea, but he sure has the talking part down. (Some of the posts, BTW, are straight transcriptions of MNY's talks.) I think I'm going to work on adding his later posts to the index as well. As far as I'm concerned, compiling an index of Michael's posts is far more useful and elevating to my consciousness than sinking in the muck and mire of Doug's scab picking, witch hunting, TMO trashing, index. So you go, girl and thank you. Also, many thanks to Michael for his deep appreciation of Maharishi's knowledge. Jai Guru Dev.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
TurquoiseB wrote: To me it would be much more fun to keep coming back to help others get enlightened so that they could keep coming back and help others, and so on... In order to come back after you die would require that you possessed an eternal soul-monad - without a soul there would be nothing to reincarnate. It's not very logical to think that you are a soul-monad, since nothing in experience would lead anyone to believe in soul magic. It's even more confusing to believe that there as many souls as there are individuals - a plurality. That would mean that Turq is a believer in pluralism - that there are many reals. But, Buddha did not support the idea of a soul-monad, so I wonder where Turq got this idea? He probably read about it in the scriptures or he was told it by the Rama Guy. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual v Spiritism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Has always gone on in ways. For the TM-movement and a teaching, it is like herding cats. Perennial warnings. Before it was Maharishi who taught against it. Now will be noteworthy to see who has the stuff to speak against it with perspective. Or, will it just be a doctrinal response? He said Guru Dev said, Patanjali said, Shankara said, Maharishi said, `Capture the fort ' Who with perspective now, Jerry Jarvis? Rick Archer had a really mean Capture the Fort advanced lecture in his day. Donna(Seibert)Colby too. Charlie Donahue also. Cogent, direct and on it about this. As regional lecturers/teachers. Judging by the ads in newage places and also on the back page adverts of the FF Weekly Reader spiritism is making popular way. Will be noteworthy to see who if anyone comes out from TM and takes a traditional swing at it as teaching. -D in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
BillyG wrote: Ultimately however there is nothing other than Shiva and He/she/It is unfathomable, that is, to know Brahman is to become Brahman. It seems pretty obvious, Billy, from reading the quotations of Guru Dev that he was a teacher of Advaita Vedanta, and that he felt that knowledge of the Transcendetal was far superior to any other kind of knowledge. One of my favorite quotations explains with an allegory how reality has a covering, and that the real is the Transcendental Paramatman. All other realities are just appearances, not real, yet not unreal either - they are Maya. According to Guru Dev, there is no higher Truth than the Truth. The quotations make this abundantly clear. The difference is the same as the difference between rice and paddy. Remove the skin of the paddy and it is rice. Similarly, remove the covering of Maya, and the Jiva will become Brahman. Source: Miscellaneous Quotations of Guru Dev: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/miscellaneous.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 4:24 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? Oh definitely, as I explained to you off list, there's (suprisingly to me) a huge difference. I rather had your experience in mind when phrasing the question. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 9:15 PM, jpgillam wrote: That man I talked to last week whose attention deficit disorder went away after a few days of TM? He said he noticed a diminution in his ADD upon deciding to learn TM, before he was actually instructed. Sounds pretty sleazy to me, We need to confront any norms we've already established. Those may represent your predisposed framework a la Lilly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: At one point, all paths can diverge into 2 ultimate outcomes: given the premise that all people will realize the Self in due time; there are 2 basic outcomes: 1. Relative existence for some relative body continues or; 2. Does not, no more existence. ...(let's not consider any variations such as temporary existence after death then a final dissolution). Therefore, there are 2 mountains. TM is in #2, while (conceptually speaking), many other paths are in #1. Yup. The dissolution thang never appealed to me. My reaction to Maharishi insisting that it was the only possibility after enlightenment always seemed 1) anti-intuitive, 2) absolutist, in the sense that there would be some end point to evolution beyond which one could not progress, and 3) a philosophy that appeals to those who don't like life much and in fact are a little afraid of it or regard it with disgust. It's the last that made me reject the idea com- pletely, even before I discovered other spiritual paths that postulated lots of other possibilities for what can happen when you die after enlighten- ment. I *like* life. I *like* existence. Yeah, transcendence is cool and all, but so is daily life, in all its infinite varieties. I see no hierarchical betterness between the two experiences. Besides, where is the *compassion* in getting all enlightened and then retiring with your gold watch? What a waste. It seems awfully selfish: I've done my time and earned my gold watch, so fuck the rest of you. To me it would be much more fun to keep coming back to help others get enlightened so that they could keep coming back and help others, and so on. Or, for that matter, to just get to come back and go through the whole process all over again, from scratch. One teacher I worked with proposed three main paths available to the enlightened being when they die: * They could decide to go for dissolution...the drop returning to the ocean thang. * They could decide to reincarnate, and keep on truckin'. * They could decide not to decide, and just dive into the Bardo and see what happens. Of these options, color me a fan of Door Number 3.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Many Paths
Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: snip If we're going to look at this, from the level of consciousness of this place, this kingdom (have you seen the movie?)--the guy didn't use his head to anally rape these boys--he used his cock and balls. So therefore, if we're looking at this from a level of consciousness where Hammurabi's Code is considered the collective consensus of the place, it's pretty simple: you don't cut off this guys head and make a pubic spectacle. You castrate him completely and make a public spectacle. Knowing several counselors who works with sex offenders, I also know these people, unless closely watched, will still re-offend. It's amazing the raw cunning of one who would rape another living being. This man is a pedophile, preying on prepubertal children. Pedophilia is currently an incurable disorder. It's not clear from the article whether the rapes involved coercion, or were statutory (de jure, because the children were too young to give consent), and the circumstances of his leaving the child in the desert aren't given. (Seems hard to imagine it could have been benign, but who knows?) In most cases, pedophiles don't coerce their victims. In that respect, they're not equivalent to de facto rapists.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Duveyoung wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching Talk about harshing my mellow. Moses did genocide, Hindus love absolutes and indulge in righteous anger, Muslims cut off clits, Buddhists kidnap children to be their popes, Witch Doctors shake bones and people die, Brother Obama says yes we can, it all blends...I'm in BCblurry consciousness. Brahman is the only truth. -Shankara, ancient Hindu teacher
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: So, people experience the Bliss. (their nervous systems and emotional bodies record and exhibit responses: This is Bliss). What % of that is due to the Shakti and what % due to Pure Consciousness? Another way you could put it is, what is due to Shiva and what is due to Shakti? A complex subject really, but you could say our nervous systems (when pure) reflect Shiva and that reflection is Shakti. Ultimately however there is nothing other than Shiva and He/she/It is unfathomable, that is, to know Brahman is to become Brahman. Brahman is that which cannot be expressed in words, even though the Upanishads use words to educate us about Its nature. MMY/Gita
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgil...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? I think that a great deal of the perceived increase of velocity may be due to being *willing* to try another path. Clinging is clinging. Attachment is attach- ment. Whether to a person or a concept or a spiritual path. Drop the weight from your shoulders and you feel lighter...simple as that. As my man Bruce Cockburn once said in a song, If I loose my grip, will I take flight? My experience is Yes. Sometimes I think that many seekers project the stuff they've been taught about romantic relationships onto spiritual relationships. They make this big deal about not cheating on their current teacher or tradition. This becomes even harder to break free from if the teacher or tradition is jealous and demonizes or excommunicates anyone who isn't faithful. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I honestly believe that it isn't necessarily the new technique that increases velocity but the willingness to try something new. That is a powerful intent, one that Nature responds to. Do the same old same old, and you tend to get the same old same old result.
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Oct 31 00:00:00 2009 End Date (UTC): Sat Nov 07 00:00:00 2009 285 messages as of (UTC) Tue Nov 03 23:51:13 2009 43 authfriend jst...@panix.com 29 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 20 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 19 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 18 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 17 dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 17 ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@netscape.net 12 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 10 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com 9 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com 9 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 8 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 8 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 8 John jr_...@yahoo.com 7 yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com 7 meowthirteen meowthirt...@yahoo.com 7 Premanand premanandp...@yahoo.co.uk 6 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 4 It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.r...@gmail.com 3 jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 3 wle...@aol.com 3 BillyG wg...@yahoo.com 3 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 2 sgrayatlarge no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 michael vedamer...@yahoo.de 1 suziezuzie msilver1...@yahoo.com 1 seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com 1 nonalaza nonal...@yahoo.com 1 lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 1 Zoran Krneta krneta.zo...@gmail.com 1 WillyTex willy...@yahoo.com 1 PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk 1 Michael Dean Goodman tan...@cheerful.com 1 Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com 1 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 1 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com Posters: 36 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ShempMcGurk Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:13 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence? Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:22pm IST RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi court of cassation upheld a ruling to behead and crucify a 22-year-old man convicted of raping five children and leaving one of them to die in the desert, newspapers reported on Tuesday. The convict was arrested earlier this year after a seven-year old boy helped police in their investigation. The child left in the desert after the rape was three years old, Okaz newspaper said. International rights groups have accused the kingdom, the birthplace of Islam, of applying draconian justice, beheading murderers, rapists and drug traffickers in public. So far this year about 40 people have been executed in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, crucifixion means tying the body of the convict to wooden beams to be displayed to the public after beheading. (Reporting by Souhail Karam; editing by Inal Ersan) If you believe in capital punishment, beheading is a fairly humane way to go. I'm not in favor of capital punishment. Yet, IMO beheading is too good for him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
Duh! Getting rid of a soul and gaining the Absolute is the best trade what am! Where in any Advaita literature can you find the Absolute being unsatisfactory? Ya dumb fuck -- It's Parkay vs. Butter. It's Pinocchio vs Real Boy. But I guess someone who sees himself as ersatz gem and a lardy marionette kinda guy can't help himself. I'll bet you wear a huge pinky ring: pure zircon. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: At one point, all paths can diverge into 2 ultimate outcomes: given the premise that all people will realize the Self in due time; there are 2 basic outcomes: 1. Relative existence for some relative body continues or; 2. Does not, no more existence. ...(let's not consider any variations such as temporary existence after death then a final dissolution). Therefore, there are 2 mountains. TM is in #2, while (conceptually speaking), many other paths are in #1. Yup. The dissolution thang never appealed to me. My reaction to Maharishi insisting that it was the only possibility after enlightenment always seemed 1) anti-intuitive, 2) absolutist, in the sense that there would be some end point to evolution beyond which one could not progress, and 3) a philosophy that appeals to those who don't like life much and in fact are a little afraid of it or regard it with disgust. It's the last that made me reject the idea com- pletely, even before I discovered other spiritual paths that postulated lots of other possibilities for what can happen when you die after enlighten- ment. I *like* life. I *like* existence. Yeah, transcendence is cool and all, but so is daily life, in all its infinite varieties. I see no hierarchical betterness between the two experiences. Besides, where is the *compassion* in getting all enlightened and then retiring with your gold watch? What a waste. It seems awfully selfish: I've done my time and earned my gold watch, so fuck the rest of you. To me it would be much more fun to keep coming back to help others get enlightened so that they could keep coming back and help others, and so on. Or, for that matter, to just get to come back and go through the whole process all over again, from scratch. One teacher I worked with proposed three main paths available to the enlightened being when they die: * They could decide to go for dissolution...the drop returning to the ocean thang. * They could decide to reincarnate, and keep on truckin'. * They could decide not to decide, and just dive into the Bardo and see what happens. Of these options, color me a fan of Door Number 3.
[FairfieldLife] The sources of good and evil (was Re: Is CC flat suffering?)
Response interleaved below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam wrote: Funny thing: I still believe desirable behaviors come with functioning from what I call the higher self, and evil arises from functioning from what I call the lower self, or ego. Definitely *not* what MMY taught, nor what the Gita says. Okay, Judy - if we're going to discuss this, let's parse the vocabulary first. The higher self, to me, is the pure consciousness by which we apprehend everything. The lower self is the individually created sense of self made up of beliefs, affiliations, values and other relative stuff. It is sustained by ignorance, and exalted in enlightenment. I thought this worldview was quite compatible with the vedic weltanschauung I picked up from Maharishi. You're seeing conflicts? No, I don't have any problem with this. What I'm thinking of is 2:54-72 in the Gita, in which Krishna answers Arjuna's question about what the signs are of a man whose intellect is steady (i.e., who is enlightened). Commenting on 2:55, the first verse of Krishna's response, MMY writes: This verse does not record any outer sign of the man whose intellect is steady and who is established in the Self, because there cannot be any outer sign to show that a man is absorbed deep within himself. The inner state of such a man cannot be judged by outer signsThe signs recounted here are only subjective. They concern the inner condition of the mind as indicated by 'casts off all desires' and 'is satisfied in the Self.' That seems pretty definitive and unambiguous to me. How would you reconcile it with what you believe? (Not saying you have to--obviously you're free to believe to the contrary!) O.K., I understand what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying. A few responses in no particular order: For one thing, I'm not saying a person's behavior indicates whether the person is enlightened. I'm saying desirable - we might say life-supporting - behaviors arise when someone functions from the higher self, or Self. Maharishi's position was pretty much in line with what I'm saying. That's the maddening thing about what Maharishi taught: Enlightened people function in a more life-supporting way, and you cannot tell it's so. So much for observable corroboration of a hypothesis. There's also the issue of defining desirable behavior. Elsewhere in the Gita is the famous Unfathomable are the fruits of action. I mentioned in another post that Michael Dean Goodman explains that in the phrase spontaneous right action, the emphasis should be on spontaneous, not right. In ignorance, we experience ourselves as authors of our actions; in enlightenment, our experience is that the gunas perform all action--which means that ultimately all action is right as far as Nature is concerned (or neither right nor wrong, depending on how you look at it). The only question is whether we perform action while worrying about whether or not it's right, with the resultant psychological strain, or just perform action spontaneously with no strain, as in enlightenment. That's according to Michael, at any rate. But it's consistent with what MMY taught and with the Gita, at least in his interpretation, as far as I can tell. Over to you... I agree that it's hard to say one isolated action is more life-supporting than another. The exception to this rule arises when we look at behavior in the aggregate. Maharishi endorsed the notion that rising collective consciousness can be measured in terms of lower hospital admissions, fewer accidents, reduced war death, a more prosperous economy and other widely agreed-upon measures of societal health. So, according to Maharishi, one cannot tell from a person's behavior whether that person is enlightened, but we *can* tell from a society's behavior whether it's moving in a more life-supporting direction. Is that inconsistent? I say no - it's simply in keeping with science's policy of having an adequate sample size. I would argue that an individual's behavior *over time* would be another way of looking at behavior in the aggregate. But I didn't get started on this line of conversation to defend or examine the old behavior-of-an-enlightened-person thesis. I'm merely saying I subscribe to the school of thought which holds that goodness comes from actions founded in the Self and badness comes from actions founded in the ego. I've been thinking a lot about evil and the ego since reading chapter three of Path of Light, Robert Perry's book about A Course in Miracles. He was able to elucidate the nature of the ego in ignorance in a way I never thought about in the course of my
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote: I've seen so many tapes where CC is described as a flat, suffering situation in which you are unbounded but nothing else is. There's this major disconnect between you and the rest of creation, kind of like you're living like a bubble boy. The 20 features of CC don't describe such a state. They describe one of joy. I experience the 20 features and life is joy and a lot more sense of intimacy with all things. Everything and everyone is my friend. Except of course the people I've spam filtered. But even there, I feel self-sufficient and don't feel bad having spam filters in place. Could someone elucidate about the pinch versus the joy of CC? When does it start pinching? Certainly NOT flat, as MMY used to say it is a *milestone* on the path of evolution but just the beginning. CC is realization of the Self or YOUR Self as made in the image of God. God is pure Anandam or bliss, (aka Love) hence you experience pure bliss in Cosmic Consciousness but constrained within the parameters of your own Self. As your Self expands it embraces the Universal Self or GC and beyond that it is unmanifest Brahman, FWIW. Additionally, CC (as defined by MMY) bestows liberation from the rounds of birth and death (Moksha) but still more progress is available.. NO thoughts, NO mantra, and NO bliss?.NO pure consciousness!!! Pure consciousness IS bliss!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: Doesn't account for a-Dharmic acts on the part of Self-Realized people; such as child molestations and thievery. Not sure what it is you're saying doesn't account for such acts. But I'm pasting in a post of Michael Dean Goodman's from January 2004 that may clarify things (or not): Wow! I got a topic named after myself. I guess it would be pretty rude not to reply when my name is the very subject! ;) Irmeli Mattsson irmeli.matts...@... wrote: Being ethical is in its core a dialogue between virtue and non-virtue. They challenge each other continuously. The border between virtue and non-virtue is in first hand not between different persons, but inside every person's own mind. I may be functioning spontaneously but an evaluation of my actions is going inside of mind and it influences my spontaneous actions in the future. I agree - this is a beautiful description of ethical behavior from the perspective of waking state. It appears that we have to be alert to the tug-of-war between virtue and non-virtue, that we have to stay focussed on making the right choices, moment-by-moment. This trains the intellect to be more discriminating, to choose ethical behavior over non-ethical. And it really doesn't matter if my perceived good, or life enhancing action, is it from the viewpoint of the absolute. The essential point is that this inner process develops my capacity to discriminate what is functional and what is less functional. You've switched from virtue/non-virtue to functional/non-functional. Does that mean that you equate virtue with what is functional? That would mean that what is virtuous is that which is functional, that which works, that which furthers the fulfillment of desires, the growth and evolution of life. And that which is non-virtue is that which is non-functional, which doesn't work, which obstructs the ful- fillment of desires. If that's what you mean, I'd agree. I'd say: virtue is that which expands the flow of life, of evolution. Non-virtue is that which constricts the flow of life, of evolution. So, to you, life is a process of refining your discriminative ability, of getting better at discriminating what is life-supporting (virtue) from that which is life-damaging (non-virtue). That is a clear des- cription of the spiritual path of discrimination. If you expand it, from discriminating the difference between virtue and non-virtue, to discriminating the Real from the non-real, you'll have the makings of Self-realization by the path of the intellect! Our actions are not just good or bad. They are both at the same time. Often even the most life enhancing functioning has some harmful effects. The idea is to learn to function in a more life enhancing way. And if you don't exercise your skill in discriminating the impact of your behavior, what kind of reality is that. What do you use your mind for? This is a very clear statement of the reality of waking state. We feel we are in charge; we must exercise our skill in discriminating; we must take responsibility for how we use our mind. But in CC, we sit in a field where we are free of all this. Out there, in the relative field, learning still goes as you de- scribe, the intellect keeps discriminating, and the urge to in- creasingly life-enhancing behavior continues if that is our na- ture. But in here there is no need for, or possibility of, learn- ing. In the Self, there is nothing missing. In the Self, the bat- tle between virtue and non-virtue is witnessed, like a sporting event. Out in the relative we look and act the same as we always did - - if we were a person who was naturally virtuous, performing func- tional activity, we'd continue that way; - if we were a person who was struggling with the choices between virtuous and non-virtuous activity, we'd continue that way; - if we were a person who was naturally non-virtuous, performing non-functional activity, we'd continue that way. The only question to ask yourself is, in the big picture, isn't both virtuous and non-virtuous activity, isn't both functional (ex- pansive) and non-functional (contractive) activity equally OK and necessary parts of this relative creation, both created by God/ Goddess, both part of the drama that the Self apparently created for its entertainment? If God is in charge - then why not Thy will be done - why such intense attachment to virtue? And, as we've been through many times on this list, how can our individual intellect even KNOW what is non-virtuous activity? How do we know the effects of action as it spreads out through the whole time and space, and even through other levels of cre- ation? It is just impossible, and arrogant of us, to believe that we can actually discriminate non-virtue from virtue. Often we do what is less scary, less painful, more pleasurable, or more dharmic (right for our next step of growth) - and pre- tend that those are virtuous actions. We are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
On Nov 3, 2009, at 6:51 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ShempMcGurk Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:13 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence? Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:22pm IST RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi court of cassation upheld a ruling to behead and crucify a 22-year-old man convicted of raping five children and leaving one of them to die in the desert, newspapers reported on Tuesday. The convict was arrested earlier this year after a seven-year old boy helped police in their investigation. The child left in the desert after the rape was three years old, Okaz newspaper said. International rights groups have accused the kingdom, the birthplace of Islam, of applying draconian justice, beheading murderers, rapists and drug traffickers in public. So far this year about 40 people have been executed in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, crucifixion means tying the body of the convict to wooden beams to be displayed to the public after beheading. (Reporting by Souhail Karam; editing by Inal Ersan) If you believe in capital punishment, beheading is a fairly humane way to go. I'm not in favor of capital punishment. Yet, IMO beheading is too good for him. Just talked to friend more experienced in these people. She said the problem (in western countries is) that at best chemical castration is the sentence. These are a series of observed IM injections attached to the parole system. This forms a type of chemical castration, which prevents people, presumably along with therapy, to not (biochemically) have the balls to even be a sexual perp. IMO for this to really work, it would take a Norplant-like implanted device which would chemically castrate the man, and contain a GPS device to track location to a set of geographically known preening sites. Along with a wise Geographical Information System or GIS, this is the level of sophistication it would take to contain such maniacs. Of course if the web or the satellite network went down...
RE: [FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ShempMcGurk Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:13 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Am I a monster for agreeing with this sentence? Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:22pm IST RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi court of cassation upheld a ruling to behead and crucify a 22-year-old man convicted of raping five children and leaving one of them to die in the desert, newspapers reported on Tuesday. The convict was arrested earlier this year after a seven-year old boy helped police in their investigation. The child left in the desert after the rape was three years old, Okaz newspaper said. International rights groups have accused the kingdom, the birthplace of Islam, of applying draconian justice, beheading murderers, rapists and drug traffickers in public. So far this year about 40 people have been executed in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, crucifixion means tying the body of the convict to wooden beams to be displayed to the public after beheading. (Reporting by Souhail Karam; editing by Inal Ersan) If you believe in capital punishment, beheading is a fairly humane way to go.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? The Kali Sadhaka Garanth path which is my tantra instruction definitely requires a guide or teacher. I couldn't have learned it without a teacher. Kali techniques are known to be dangerous without a guide. The experience of intense shakti from the guru mantra was as thick as butter or as some others put like iron.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: snip Maybe the two of you could get custom-made Barry dart sets and along with Judy, Barry's constant companion-of-sorts, you could start a tournament! Perhaps even post them on Youtube. If Barry ever gets tired of being a dartboard, all he has to do is quit throwing gratuitous darts at others.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: This is the most in depth explanation of spontaneous right action I have ever seen. Excellent. Thanks for posting it, Judy. Thanks to Michael for writing it. And there's a lot more where that came from. ;-) I discovered very recently that back in March 2005, at Rick's request, Michael compiled an index of his posts on Vedic knowledge up to that point (#43379). It's a fabulous resource, almost 100 posts. As far as I can tell, the ones I've read are entirely consistent with what MMY taught, a sort of refresher course on the finer points. I've always found his explanations brilliantly clear. Whether he experientially walks his talk, I have no idea, but he sure has the talking part down. (Some of the posts, BTW, are straight transcriptions of MNY's talks.) I think I'm going to work on adding his later posts to the index as well. As far as I'm concerned, compiling an index of Michael's posts is far more useful and elevating to my consciousness than sinking in the muck and mire of Doug's scab picking, witch hunting, TMO trashing, index. So you go, girl and thank you. Also, many thanks to Michael for his deep appreciation of Maharishi's knowledge. Jai Guru Dev. As I read his posts--assuming they reflect MMY's teaching accurately, as it seems to me they do--I'm struck by how much of that teaching most of us here (myself included) have let slip out of our grasp. What we see here is largely crude cartoons or worse. It's an object lesson in how quickly knowledge deteriorates, and it shows why MMY was so insistent on preserving the purity of the teaching, as much as that seems to offend some people. When you see a more complete, more accurate presentation, the layers of subtlety and profundity are astonishing. Guru Dev may have been a more advanced soul than MMY, but based on what I've read of Guru Dev's lectures, MMY had the more powerful intellect. The interesting thing about Michael's posts is that he doesn't just parrot. He does quote MMY from time to time, and he uses some of the TM jargon, but most of what he writes is in his own words, illustrated with his own analogies and examples. You can't parrot and have it come out that clearly; you've got to *own* it. But ironically, where many of his posts end up, or deal with in passing, is how easily the intellect in ignorance can lead one astray or keep one stuck, and he does a lot of prying-loose in this respect--very much the Use a thorn to remove a thorn approach. He demonstrates *on an intellectual basis* how unreliable the intellect is on its own. Invaluable stuff.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
So, people experience the Bliss. (their nervous systems and emotional bodies record and exhibit responses: This is Bliss). What % of that is due to the Shakti and what % due to Pure Consciousness? -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote: I've seen so many tapes where CC is described as a flat, suffering situation in which you are unbounded but nothing else is. There's this major disconnect between you and the rest of creation, kind of like you're living like a bubble boy. The 20 features of CC don't describe such a state. They describe one of joy. I experience the 20 features and life is joy and a lot more sense of intimacy with all things. Everything and everyone is my friend. Except of course the people I've spam filtered. But even there, I feel self-sufficient and don't feel bad having spam filters in place. Could someone elucidate about the pinch versus the joy of CC? When does it start pinching? Certainly NOT flat, as MMY used to say it is a *milestone* on the path of evolution but just the beginning. CC is realization of the Self or YOUR Self as made in the image of God. God is pure Anandam or bliss, (aka Love) hence you experience pure bliss in Cosmic Consciousness but constrained within the parameters of your own Self. As your Self expands it embraces the Universal Self or GC and beyond that it is unmanifest Brahman, FWIW. Additionally, CC (as defined by MMY) bestows liberation from the rounds of birth and death (Moksha) but still more progress is available.. NO thoughts, NO mantra, and NO bliss?.NO pure consciousness!!! Pure consciousness IS bliss!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: This is the most in depth explanation of spontaneous right action I have ever seen. Excellent. Thanks for posting it, Judy. Thanks to Michael for writing it. And there's a lot more where that came from. ;-) I discovered very recently that back in March 2005, at Rick's request, Michael compiled an index of his posts on Vedic knowledge up to that point (#43379). It's a fabulous resource, almost 100 posts. As far as I can tell, the ones I've read are entirely consistent with what MMY taught, a sort of refresher course on the finer points. I've always found his explanations brilliantly clear. Whether he experientially walks his talk, I have no idea, but he sure has the talking part down. (Some of the posts, BTW, are straight transcriptions of MNY's talks.) I think I'm going to work on adding his later posts to the index as well. As far as I'm concerned, compiling an index of Michael's posts is far more useful and elevating to my consciousness than sinking in the muck and mire of Doug's scab picking, witch hunting, TMO trashing, index. So you go, girl and thank you. Also, many thanks to Michael for his deep appreciation of Maharishi's knowledge. Jai Guru Dev. As I read his posts--assuming they reflect MMY's teaching accurately, as it seems to me they do--I'm struck by how much of that teaching most of us here (myself included) have let slip out of our grasp. What we see here is largely crude cartoons or worse. It's an object lesson in how quickly knowledge deteriorates, and it shows why MMY was so insistent on preserving the purity of the teaching, as much as that seems to offend some people. When you see a more complete, more accurate presentation, the layers of subtlety and profundity are astonishing. Guru Dev may have been a more advanced soul than MMY, but based on what I've read of Guru Dev's lectures, MMY had the more powerful intellect. The interesting thing about Michael's posts is that he doesn't just parrot. He does quote MMY from time to time, and he uses some of the TM jargon, but most of what he writes is in his own words, illustrated with his own analogies and examples. You can't parrot and have it come out that clearly; you've got to *own* it. But ironically, where many of his posts end up, or deal with in passing, is how easily the intellect in ignorance can lead one astray or keep one stuck, and he does a lot of prying-loose in this respect--very much the Use a thorn to remove a thorn approach. He demonstrates *on an intellectual basis* how unreliable the intellect is on its own. Invaluable stuff. When I got off TTC and started teaching TM in the '70's and early '80's, I loved answering people's questions about TM. I had fun figuring out different ways to answer the same questions over and over. Even though my words varied, my answers always conveyed Maharishi's intention. Over time, my ability to express Maharishi's knowledge became more profound and fulfilling. I never considered this parroting. I considered it gilding the lily. It was a term I used to describe Maharishi's approach to teaching. It always amazed me that I could listen to hundreds of tapes of Maharishi saying the same thing a million different ways and each time it FELT more profound as it seeped into my consciousness. Maharishi's lily was beautiful all by itself but he always found a more interesting way to make the same knowledge richer as he applied shinier layer upon layer of beauty on the lily. When I was teaching, I owned Maharishi's knowledge absolutely and I thrilled to dance with his words. I feel that Michael dances with Maharishi's words as well. I am so glad, Judy, you unearthed Michael's writings. It reminds me that the ability to own and express Maharishi's knowledge flows from a grateful heart that fully embraces the eternal wisdom of the Holy Tradition, ever saying, always singing, Jai Guru Dev. It's a beautiful thing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:20 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Duh! Getting rid of a soul and gaining the Absolute is the best trade what am! Where in any Advaita literature can you find the Absolute being unsatisfactory? Ya dumb fuck -- It's Parkay vs. Butter. It's Pinocchio vs Real Boy. But I guess someone who sees himself as ersatz gem and a lardy marionette kinda guy can't help himself. I'll bet you wear a huge pinky ring: pure zircon. Edg Edg, I love your big phoney pompous ass description of Barry. At first I imagined him as a pimp with a lot of bling but I couldn't find a white guy wearing bling on Google images. So in keeping with the phony metaphor, I settled on portraying Barry as the dandy man, complete with pinkey ring: Maybe the two of you could get custom-made Barry dart sets and along with Judy, Barry's constant companion-of-sorts, you could start a tournament! Perhaps even post them on Youtube. My, the possibilities for the weirdly obsessed are truly endless.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip Yup. The dissolution thang never appealed to me. My reaction to Maharishi insisting that it was the only possibility after enlightenment The holy tradition of great masters, which is responsible for reviving the teaching after every lapse, has captured the mind and heart of lovers of Truth in every age. It is not merely held in high regard, but has come to be actually worshipped by seekers of Truth and knowers of Reality. A verse* recording the names of the greatest and most highly revered masters has not only inspired seekers, but has been a joy even to the fulfilled hearts of realized souls passing through the long corridor of time. * See Appendix [which quotes the puja]. --Commentary to 4:2 in MMY's Gita translation (copyright 1967)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
Note that the implication Vaj intends is that running around and around the mountain telling everyone their path is wrong is *not* a waste of time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: This is the most in depth explanation of spontaneous right action I have ever seen. Excellent. Thanks for posting it, Judy. Thanks to Michael for writing it. And there's a lot more where that came from. ;-) I discovered very recently that back in March 2005, at Rick's request, Michael compiled an index of his posts on Vedic knowledge up to that point (#43379). It's a fabulous resource, almost 100 posts. As far as I can tell, the ones I've read are entirely consistent with what MMY taught, a sort of refresher course on the finer points. I've always found his explanations brilliantly clear. Whether he experientially walks his talk, I have no idea, but he sure has the talking part down. (Some of the posts, BTW, are straight transcriptions of MNY's talks.) I think I'm going to work on adding his later posts to the index as well.
[FairfieldLife] The Supernanny Inspired Guide to Politics: Vote for Daggett
Voters' Meeting I have spent some time observing your country, taken a look around. First, I'd like to say that you are the owners of a wonderful country. It is bright, vibrant, diverse. It has a lot of potential. However You are letting your politicians walk all over you. They ignore you when you tell them what to do. They laugh at you when you express your displeasure. They hang around with people who you have forbidden them to talk to. They behave as if your vote doesn't count. And you let them get away with it. When they scream and cry for money, you give it to them. When they accuse you of being old, stupid, reactionary, Republican, racist, terrorists, you vote for them anyway. And in all that time, they have made only half-hearted efforts to clean up the environment and make the tax system more fair. They think you're not serious about health care reform, financial regulation and giving you the best educational system in the world. They fight- *constantly*- with each other and other countries. And they will continue to do this because they think you are total pushovers. You have not enforced any discipline in your politicians. You let them get away with everything. If you want your country and control back, something's got to change. You have to be willing to step up and make some changes. Are you ready to roll up your sleeves and put this country back in order? Step One: Laying down the rules Step Two: Discipline read more: http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/the-supernanny-inspired-guide-to-politics-vote-for-daggett/ http://snipurl.com/t1pgy
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
This is the most in depth explanation of spontaneous right action I have ever seen. Excellent. Thanks for posting it, Judy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: Doesn't account for a-Dharmic acts on the part of Self-Realized people; such as child molestations and thievery. Not sure what it is you're saying doesn't account for such acts. But I'm pasting in a post of Michael Dean Goodman's from January 2004 that may clarify things (or not): Wow! I got a topic named after myself. I guess it would be pretty rude not to reply when my name is the very subject! ;) Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: Being ethical is in its core a dialogue between virtue and non-virtue. They challenge each other continuously. The border between virtue and non-virtue is in first hand not between different persons, but inside every person's own mind. I may be functioning spontaneously but an evaluation of my actions is going inside of mind and it influences my spontaneous actions in the future. I agree - this is a beautiful description of ethical behavior from the perspective of waking state. It appears that we have to be alert to the tug-of-war between virtue and non-virtue, that we have to stay focussed on making the right choices, moment-by-moment. This trains the intellect to be more discriminating, to choose ethical behavior over non-ethical. And it really doesn't matter if my perceived good, or life enhancing action, is it from the viewpoint of the absolute. The essential point is that this inner process develops my capacity to discriminate what is functional and what is less functional. You've switched from virtue/non-virtue to functional/non-functional. Does that mean that you equate virtue with what is functional? That would mean that what is virtuous is that which is functional, that which works, that which furthers the fulfillment of desires, the growth and evolution of life. And that which is non-virtue is that which is non-functional, which doesn't work, which obstructs the ful- fillment of desires. If that's what you mean, I'd agree. I'd say: virtue is that which expands the flow of life, of evolution. Non-virtue is that which constricts the flow of life, of evolution. So, to you, life is a process of refining your discriminative ability, of getting better at discriminating what is life-supporting (virtue) from that which is life-damaging (non-virtue). That is a clear des- cription of the spiritual path of discrimination. If you expand it, from discriminating the difference between virtue and non-virtue, to discriminating the Real from the non-real, you'll have the makings of Self-realization by the path of the intellect! Our actions are not just good or bad. They are both at the same time. Often even the most life enhancing functioning has some harmful effects. The idea is to learn to function in a more life enhancing way. And if you don't exercise your skill in discriminating the impact of your behavior, what kind of reality is that. What do you use your mind for? This is a very clear statement of the reality of waking state. We feel we are in charge; we must exercise our skill in discriminating; we must take responsibility for how we use our mind. But in CC, we sit in a field where we are free of all this. Out there, in the relative field, learning still goes as you de- scribe, the intellect keeps discriminating, and the urge to in- creasingly life-enhancing behavior continues if that is our na- ture. But in here there is no need for, or possibility of, learn- ing. In the Self, there is nothing missing. In the Self, the bat- tle between virtue and non-virtue is witnessed, like a sporting event. Out in the relative we look and act the same as we always did - - if we were a person who was naturally virtuous, performing func- tional activity, we'd continue that way; - if we were a person who was struggling with the choices between virtuous and non-virtuous activity, we'd continue that way; - if we were a person who was naturally non-virtuous, performing non-functional activity, we'd continue that way. The only question to ask yourself is, in the big picture, isn't both virtuous and non-virtuous activity, isn't both functional (ex- pansive) and non-functional (contractive) activity equally OK and necessary parts of this relative creation, both created by God/ Goddess, both part of the drama that the Self apparently created for its entertainment? If God is in charge - then why not Thy will be done - why such intense attachment to virtue? And, as we've been through many times on this list, how can our individual intellect even KNOW what is non-virtuous activity? How do we know the effects of action as it spreads out through the whole time and space, and even through other levels of cre- ation? It
[FairfieldLife] The sources of good and evil (was Re: Is CC flat suffering?)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgil...@... wrote: Response interleaved below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip This verse does not record any outer sign of the man whose intellect is steady and who is established in the Self, because there cannot be any outer sign to show that a man is absorbed deep within himself. The inner state of such a man cannot be judged by outer signsThe signs recounted here are only subjective. They concern the inner condition of the mind as indicated by 'casts off all desires' and 'is satisfied in the Self.' That seems pretty definitive and unambiguous to me. How would you reconcile it with what you believe? (Not saying you have to--obviously you're free to believe to the contrary!) O.K., I understand what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying. A few responses in no particular order: For one thing, I'm not saying a person's behavior indicates whether the person is enlightened. I'm saying desirable - we might say life-supporting - behaviors arise when someone functions from the higher self, or Self. Gotcha, in light of what you go on to say: Maharishi's position was pretty much in line with what I'm saying. That's the maddening thing about what Maharishi taught: Enlightened people function in a more life-supporting way, and you cannot tell it's so. snip I agree that it's hard to say one isolated action is more life-supporting than another. The exception to this rule arises when we look at behavior in the aggregate. Maharishi endorsed the notion that rising collective consciousness can be measured in terms of lower hospital admissions, fewer accidents, reduced war death, a more prosperous economy and other widely agreed-upon measures of societal health. OK. That makes sense (although I could construct scenarios where a well-functioning society might not end up being life-supporting in the long term, or a local well-functioning society might not be life- supporting in global terms). snip I'm merely saying I subscribe to the school of thought which holds that goodness comes from actions founded in the Self and badness comes from actions founded in the ego. I'm a little uneasy about this, but I can't come up with any specifics against it from what I know of MMY's teaching. It sounds a lot like St. Paul, which makes me suspicious! I guess I'm more inclined to think that *both* come from the ego, because the Self doesn't make such distinctions. But an ego at the service of the Self (i.e., in enlightenment) might well engage in more life-supporting actions than the ego in ignorance, when it thinks it's running the show. I've been thinking a lot about evil and the ego since reading chapter three of Path of Light, Robert Perry's book about A Course in Miracles. He was able to elucidate the nature of the ego in ignorance in a way I never thought about in the course of my consciousness-based education. Hence the black-and-white position I entertain at the top of this post. Can you say more about his approach?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: Note that the implication Vaj intends is that running around and around the mountain telling everyone their path is wrong is *not* a waste of time. The amount of time Vaj wastes telling everyone their [TM] path is wrong, just means he's doomed to go around the mountain once again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ctRVrpM8UU --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching If the shudra (untouchable) intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and sealing wax; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces. -Ancient Hindu Teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Nov 3, 2009, at 4:24 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? Oh definitely, as I explained to you off list, there's (suprisingly to me) a huge difference. And as I told you, I believed, at one time, that TM was an enlightenment in one lifetime kinda path. I was bought and sold. Did I need a guide? I've been very, very fortunate to have some really excellent teachers who went out of their way. I can imagine doing it without them, but it's hard to know if it would have been possible. In a sense, once you gain realization via a certain teachers basic kindness, a part of them becomes a living part of you. The two are no longer separate, even if they never meet each other again in this lifetime. It's like carrying the buddha in the palm of your hand. Gee Vaj, that sounds exactly like my experience with Maharishi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: Doesn't account for a-Dharmic acts on the part of Self-Realized people; such as child molestations and thievery. I'm on a Michael Dean Goodman kick. Here's a post of his from April 2003 that addresses the same issue from a different angle. His remarks about God are a little too anthropomorphic for me, but the basic principles can also be understood in the abstract. = Gary Smith ga...@... wrote: Hi All, I'd like some feedback on this piece I just finished writing. Thanks. God's Will by Gary Douglas Smith There is a widely held belief in the New Age and spiritual community that this war with Iraq is God's Will. The thinking goes that because the war is occurring, it is God's will because nothing can occur that God does not want to occur. If this war was not God's will, it would not be happening. If things can happen that are not God's will, then God is no longer omnipotent. Then we have to ask whose will is making these bad things happen? Whose will is stronger than God's? Interesting line of thought; where does it lead if you actually pursue it? Is it the devil's will? Or the will(s) of individual ego(s)? In either case, we postulate some existence(s) outside of, and more powerful than, our God's will. Then there must be a bigger God that created both this God-of-light and this devil-of-darkness, or created this God of limited power and these individual free-willed egos. It would be worthwhile getting to know this higher God who created both the good and the bad side that we see battling here in your world view. This is patently untrue. God's will is for His children to live in a peaceful, just, fair and loving world. God's will is for humanity to end starvation, to heal the suffering, to share resources, and for human beings to love one another. If this is God's will, and God is omnipotent, how come God doesn't just create a garden of eden, with perfect pleasure, absence of all suffering, eternal life (absence of death), etc.? If God's will is as you state, how come God doesn't get his will instantly? Who or what is so powerful that he/it obstructs God's deepest desires? Does God need to meditate more, or do more purifying activity/penance, or stop using his south entrance, or go to the ayurvedic clinic for more panchakarma, or get some family yagyas done - so that his ability to manifest his desires (his ritam abilities, or his siddhi abilities), gets more developed? Should we take up a fund to sponsor God to go on the purusha program so that God can get better and stronger? Not everything that happens on planet Earth is God's will. God does not endorse child molestation, spousal abuse, rape, violence, war, malnu- trition, poverty, pollution, corporate crime and other evils. This does not mean that God does not love the evildoer, but He certainly does not support their behavior. If he doesn't, just who does? Where does this half of life come from? Whose power, energy, intelligence does all activity this draw upon? For instance, it is widely understood that killing is wrong and immoral. This is clearly stated in every major religion the world over. Yet some people kill. This does not make it God's will that these people kill or that their victims be killed. People who kill are frighteningly disasso- ciated from their spirit, and God's will is for those individuals to heal and to forgive, not kill. Krishna came and caused the death of millions of people - wiping the entire Kshatriya race off the face of the earth. Rama engaged in a huge war - killing many. God ultimately kills every single person's body; we all die after a relatively short life-span. God says, in the Bhagavad Gita: Unfathomable is course of action... even the wise are bewildered. So it's difficult to know the full effect of any action - whether apparently good or apparently bad. The reason that this war is happening is because humanity has become completely disconnected from its own humanity, its spirit. We have forgotten who we are and who God is. We have given our power to the government, to advertisers, to corporations, to banks, to teachers, to doctors, to pollsters, to the media, to the military. Very true! And all that is part of God's will, God's soap-opera of creation, part of the eternal struggle where sometimes purity rises higher and sometimes impurity rises higher. We still live in an age where impurity has risen very high. And impurity is also very agi- tated by the eviction notice that it has been served, as the trend of time takes a dramatic shift. So we are seeing its temper tantrum as it loses its grip on the times. [big snip] My wish is for God's will to be done. Gary, you asked for feedback, so I will respectfully yet boldly give you some. I can tell from your writing that you have a beautiful, compassionate, and very concerned heart. All this killing and violence troubles you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. Some even head away from the mountain or skirt around it! LOL, there's even a short-cut yoga in the mahasandhi tradition to attain the Body of Light which literally means the great leap [over the mountain].
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
On Nov 3, 2009, at 4:24 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Rick Archer wrote: There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. ~ Hindu teaching Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? Oh definitely, as I explained to you off list, there's (suprisingly to me) a huge difference. And as I told you, I believed, at one time, that TM was an enlightenment in one lifetime kinda path. I was bought and sold. Did I need a guide? I've been very, very fortunate to have some really excellent teachers who went out of their way. I can imagine doing it without them, but it's hard to know if it would have been possible. In a sense, once you gain realization via a certain teachers basic kindness, a part of them becomes a living part of you. The two are no longer separate, even if they never meet each other again in this lifetime. It's like carrying the buddha in the palm of your hand.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is CC flat suffering?
Another excellent blast from the past. Thanks, Judy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: Doesn't account for a-Dharmic acts on the part of Self-Realized people; such as child molestations and thievery. I'm on a Michael Dean Goodman kick. Here's a post of his from April 2003 that addresses the same issue from a different angle. His remarks about God are a little too anthropomorphic for me, but the basic principles can also be understood in the abstract. = Gary Smith garys@ wrote: Hi All, I'd like some feedback on this piece I just finished writing. Thanks. God's Will by Gary Douglas Smith There is a widely held belief in the New Age and spiritual community that this war with Iraq is God's Will. The thinking goes that because the war is occurring, it is God's will because nothing can occur that God does not want to occur. If this war was not God's will, it would not be happening. If things can happen that are not God's will, then God is no longer omnipotent. Then we have to ask whose will is making these bad things happen? Whose will is stronger than God's? Interesting line of thought; where does it lead if you actually pursue it? Is it the devil's will? Or the will(s) of individual ego(s)? In either case, we postulate some existence(s) outside of, and more powerful than, our God's will. Then there must be a bigger God that created both this God-of-light and this devil-of-darkness, or created this God of limited power and these individual free-willed egos. It would be worthwhile getting to know this higher God who created both the good and the bad side that we see battling here in your world view. This is patently untrue. God's will is for His children to live in a peaceful, just, fair and loving world. God's will is for humanity to end starvation, to heal the suffering, to share resources, and for human beings to love one another. If this is God's will, and God is omnipotent, how come God doesn't just create a garden of eden, with perfect pleasure, absence of all suffering, eternal life (absence of death), etc.? If God's will is as you state, how come God doesn't get his will instantly? Who or what is so powerful that he/it obstructs God's deepest desires? Does God need to meditate more, or do more purifying activity/penance, or stop using his south entrance, or go to the ayurvedic clinic for more panchakarma, or get some family yagyas done - so that his ability to manifest his desires (his ritam abilities, or his siddhi abilities), gets more developed? Should we take up a fund to sponsor God to go on the purusha program so that God can get better and stronger? Not everything that happens on planet Earth is God's will. God does not endorse child molestation, spousal abuse, rape, violence, war, malnu- trition, poverty, pollution, corporate crime and other evils. This does not mean that God does not love the evildoer, but He certainly does not support their behavior. If he doesn't, just who does? Where does this half of life come from? Whose power, energy, intelligence does all activity this draw upon? For instance, it is widely understood that killing is wrong and immoral. This is clearly stated in every major religion the world over. Yet some people kill. This does not make it God's will that these people kill or that their victims be killed. People who kill are frighteningly disasso- ciated from their spirit, and God's will is for those individuals to heal and to forgive, not kill. Krishna came and caused the death of millions of people - wiping the entire Kshatriya race off the face of the earth. Rama engaged in a huge war - killing many. God ultimately kills every single person's body; we all die after a relatively short life-span. God says, in the Bhagavad Gita: Unfathomable is course of action... even the wise are bewildered. So it's difficult to know the full effect of any action - whether apparently good or apparently bad. The reason that this war is happening is because humanity has become completely disconnected from its own humanity, its spirit. We have forgotten who we are and who God is. We have given our power to the government, to advertisers, to corporations, to banks, to teachers, to doctors, to pollsters, to the media, to the military. Very true! And all that is part of God's will, God's soap-opera of creation, part of the eternal struggle where sometimes purity rises higher and sometimes impurity rises higher. We still live in an age where impurity has risen very high. And impurity is also very agi- tated by the eviction notice that it has been served, as the trend of time takes a dramatic shift. So we are seeing its temper tantrum as it loses its grip on the times. [big snip] My wish is for God's will to be done.
[FairfieldLife] Rio de Janeiro / headlines of Maharishi's Global Family Chat
jai guru dev 3 November 09 Raja Luis described the sweet, natural feeling of the state government of Rio de Janeiro's inauguration of its project for 1.5 million students to receive Consciousness-based Education. The Secretary for Education was there in support, and many top artists told of their good experience with TM, and with a feeling of parental guidance they encouraged the fortunate students to practice regularly. David Lynch was very inspired with this responsible feeling from the artists, and has invited them all to be on the board of the David Lynch Foundation for Brazil. The Secretary for Education inspired the artists to participate in a blog on the government website where the students will be able to interact with their celebrity heroes about TM. This is a step the likes of which has never been seen before: a government funded programme for the entire state of a major world city, evolving very naturally like a family undertaking on the basis of the coherence that has been created in the region. Strongly recommended for everyone to watch this presentation by Raja Luis. Maharishi's Global Family Chat Archives
[FairfieldLife] Re: Many Paths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgil...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Some paths are faster than others. Those that are faster require a fastened seat belt and navigator. This ^ observation makes sense to me. What say the people here who've taken more than one path? Have you felt the increase in evolutionary velocity, if that's what you felt, made you feel that you needed to be buckled in, or that you needed a guide? I think that a great deal of the perceived increase of velocity may be due to being *willing* to try another path. Clinging is clinging. Attachment is attach- ment. Whether to a person or a concept or a spiritual path. Drop the weight from your shoulders and you feel lighter...simple as that. As my man Bruce Cockburn once said in a song, If I loose my grip, will I take flight? My experience is Yes. The power of intention, then. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell what makes something happen - a person's actions, or the intention that precedes the action. Sometimes it seems intention is enough, but we follow through with the action to seal the deal, as it were. That man I talked to last week whose attention deficit disorder went away after a few days of TM? He said he noticed a diminution in his ADD upon deciding to learn TM, before he was actually instructed. I wasn't joking in my rap the other day about the enlightenment process viewed as an extension of the placebo effect. It's not a view that long- term believers in Woo Woo like, but I think it's a viable way to look at things, and explains the enlightenment process without changing its basic model -- that we are all always already enlight- ened and that the only thing enlightenment is is noticing what's always already been going on. So yes, I suspect intention has a far greater effect on Self discovery than any particular technique of Self discovery. As the recent studies on the growing effectiveness of the placebo effect have shown, it really doesn't matter whether the patient takes a blue pill (real medicine) or a red pill (a placebo). All that matters is that they take a pill. Having been part of spiritual traditions that not only do not forbid seeing other teachers and trying techniques from other traditions but *encourage* it, I cannot help but wonder at the intent behind demonizing and punishing it. Like the phenomenon of the jealous god we see in the Old Testament and in some Vedic scriptures, it seems almost intentionally counterproductive to the realization of enlightenment.
