date:20140908

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

It's the formation of a new government in Iraq, according to Kerry.  IMO, this 
indeed is the most reasonable of all approaches, along with the necessary 
support from world governments to defeat ISIS.
 

 https://news.yahoo.com/kerry-heads-mideast-talks-islamic-state-180834352.html 
https://news.yahoo.com/kerry-heads-mideast-talks-islamic-state-180834352.html

[FairfieldLife] Deepak According to Dawkins

Not so complimentary 4 minute video on Deepak by Richard Dawkins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcB7FIrXXI
  
 
Richard Dawkins exposes charlatan Deepak Chopra  
View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Re: 30th November | Channeled Info from MMY

2014-09-08 Thread Duveyoung

Everybody be like:  
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jNwjOksqJQk/UTuWKhdSG7I/AIc/7ShPOljGM0Y/s1600/cm-47778-0510a9f8f4a84d.gif
 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jNwjOksqJQk/UTuWKhdSG7I/AIc/7ShPOljGM0Y/s1600/cm-47778-0510a9f8f4a84d.gif

[FairfieldLife] Good Deal

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Richard Dawkins interviews good old Deepak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsH1U7zSp7k
  
 
Richard Dawkins interviews Deepak Chopra (Enemies of ...  
View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] 30th November | Channeled Info from MMY

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

God Almighty! Combining channeling with True TM Believing. I wonder if Bevan, 
Neal and King Tony will be there?

 From: "'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife  
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] 30th November | Channeled Info from MMY

http://30thnovember.com/

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Tue 09-Sep-14 00:15:06 UTC

2014-09-08 Thread FFL PostCount ffl.postco...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 09/06/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 09/13/14 00:00:00
343 messages as of (UTC) 09/08/14 23:59:14

 78 'Richard J. Williams' punditster
 66 danfriedman2002 
 29 steve.sundur
 26 salyavin808 
 26 awoelflebater
 20 Share Long sharelong60
 19 TurquoiseBee turquoiseb
 16 Michael Jackson mjackson74
 12 Bhairitu noozguru
 11 fleetwood_macncheese
  8 jr_esq
  6 jedi_spock
  4 nablusoss1008 
  2 s3raphita
  2 john_carter_bsc
  2 emptybill
  2 cardemaister
  2 Duveyoung 
  2 Dick Mays dickmays
  2 'Rick Archer' rick
  1 wayback71
  1 punditster
  1 j_alexander_stanley
  1 dhamiltony2k5
  1 anartaxius
  1 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius
  1 Mike Dixon mdixon.6569
  1 John Carter john_carter_bsc
Posters: 28
Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
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US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
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[FairfieldLife] Invoking Louis XIV

Governor Perry's lawyers must be getting desperate to find a strong case to 
dismiss their client's charges.  If not successful, Governor Perry could go to 
jail for abuse of power.
 

 
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-could-restrict-airspace-sanctions-battle-pm-082341972.html
 
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-could-restrict-airspace-sanctions-battle-pm-082341972.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: 30th November | Channeled Info from MMY

2014-09-08 Thread 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
Rick, Thanks for this. FREE. Count me in! I'll RSVP now.
 http://30thnovember.com/ http://30thnovember.com/

[FairfieldLife] 30th November | Channeled Info from MMY

http://30thnovember.com/

[FairfieldLife] Russsia Could Restrict Airspace

As a threat, if western Europe imposes more sanctions against it.
 

 
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-could-restrict-airspace-sanctions-battle-pm-082341972.html
 
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-could-restrict-airspace-sanctions-battle-pm-082341972.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: My Sense Of Humor

Oh, no...are you going to become a jihadist?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Be warned...  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The End is Near

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

Salyavin, 

 Come to think of it, Hawking may have sown the seeds of a new theory in the 
expansion of the universe.  IMHO, it's possible that the Higgs Boson could 
become unstable eons from now when the galaxies at the edge of the universe 
reach the speed of light.  As such, all of those galaxies would dissipate and 
melt away into nothing.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Let's hope there isn't an afterlife, it'd be an embarrassing conversation 
trying to explain to all the other denizens of the universe what happened if we 
destroy the whole of existence. 

 "We just just wanted to see what it looked like"
 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Stephen Hawking has become a prophet of doom.  He warns that the Higgs Boson 
could become unstable and wipe out the entire universe.
 

 http://news.yahoo.com/stephen-hawking-god-particle-could-163109712.html 
http://news.yahoo.com/stephen-hawking-god-particle-could-163109712.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Wassup?

2014-09-08 Thread pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

Americans will probably never get enough. Never get enough pay-back for
spending billions of dollars and thousands of lives this century rescuing Euros
and Brits from destruction. Even now the U.S pays 75% of all NATO expenses for
their self-defense. Maybe it's time for some pay-back. Maybe the U.S.should
bring all the troops back home.

"Speaking this month in Brussels, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned
our European allies in NATO that freeloading on America's outsized military
might cannot guarantee their security forever.

Over the past two years, NATO's European members cut $45 billion from their
defense spending, which the Associated Press points out nearly equals Germany's
annual military budget. "

'Why the U.S. is stuck with NATO's bill'
USA Today:
Column: Why the U.S. is stuck with NATO's bill - USATODAY.com
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-06-21-US-stuck-with-NATO-bill_n.htm

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-06-21-US-stuck-with-NATO-bill_n.htm

Column: Why the U.S. is stuck with NATO's bill - USA...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-06-21-US-stuck-with-NATO-bill_n.htm
Aging European countries are being forced to choose between funding elderly
care and funding defense. And America is left holding the bag.

View on usatoday30.usatoda...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-06-21-US-stuck-with-NATO-bill_n.htm

Preview by Yahoo

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Re: [FairfieldLife] Wassup? [1 Attachment]




[Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Richard J. Williams included below]

On 9/8/2014 7:01 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

>
Wassup?
>
We are working on school projects today and responding to our electronic 
mail - digitizing images and sound files and video recording segments 
for the on-line help desk at our school at the nearby community college. 
We are connected to the campus network and streaming with the new 
Blackboard Learn System 9.1. from our home office.




/Faculty Computer Lab, 2010/

"The Blackboard Learning System is a virtual learning environment and 
course management system developed by Blackboard Inc. It is a Web-based 
server software which features course management..."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Learning_System
>
> On 9/8/2014 7:01 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
>
On 9/8/2014 7:42 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

>

>
We went to the office early today to get to work done on projects, now 
that school is back in session. We  ran the Google Analytics on our 
hosted server. So far, everything looks good. There were several hits 
from NE and UK tomorrow, your time. Yesterday I was able to do some 
more research for /emtybill/ on the Yoga-Vedanta discussion and we 
visited another power place in central Texas.


Today we are working on digitizing images and sound files and video 
recording segments for the online help-desk at our school - a 
community college nearby.




/Command Central Administrative Console/

[FairfieldLife] Re: My Sense Of Humor

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Be warned...  :-)
 

 
 

 

 I'm shocked, horrified. I have to go mortify my eyes now.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/8/2014 3:13 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

*From:* salyavin808 

Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do 
with mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy 
and Woo Woo about into crystal clarity.

>
Most people understand meditation pretty clearly without getting all 
hazy - it's the "Woo woo" that makes everything look all cloudy and 
complicated. Like /karma/ and /reincarnation/ and /levitation./ Almost 
everyone can understand that meditation is just thinking things over in 
your mind. It's not complicated.

>

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life 
itself for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a 
rock isn't conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, 
therefore it must be the organisation inside my head that gives rise 
to awareness. This is quite obviously born out by experiment.

No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self 
resides, evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it 
would have to be a very ancient biological structure and yet it acts 
all modern with its feelings etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the 
brain from the ancient reptilian parts that gives us instincts and 
simple motor function responses, the mid brain or limbic system we 
share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires and 
learned responses like fight or flight.

On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning 
and episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we 
experience and use all of them with the top, most recently evolved 
bit, wondering where all the inner stuff comes from.

You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, 
in severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by 
cutting the connecting nerves. People can still function but if you 
place a screen between someone's eyes so they can't see what's on the 
other side your left eye will see things but you won't know what they 
are even though your right hand can draw them! This means there must 
be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is that?

I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is 
working out exactly what everything is doing and when.

I've never understood those who go on and on about the "hard problem." 
It's simply a non-issue to a pragmatic Buddhist. Who CARES about the 
"Why" of consciousness or "Where it comes from?" No one has ever known 
and no one ever will, and 'knowing' would do them no good even if they 
found what they thought was a suitable "Why" or "Where."

The pragmatic spiritual approach is to leave all the figuring and the 
posturing about the "Why" of life to those who feel they have time to 
waste on such self-indulgent shit, and focus instead on the obvious -- 
that *something* we call consciousness exists, here and now, and that 
we have the ability to work with it. The only thing that seems to have 
any pragmatic value -- for us or for others -- is learning how to make 
the best use of whatever we consider consciousness to be.

Then again, I fully admit to being underwhelmed by the silly shit that 
"philosophers" spend their lives pondering. I think the world would 
have been a better place if they'd all been forced to go out and 
actually DO something of benefit to other people instead of sitting on 
their asses feeling self-important about a self that never existed.  :-)

The inner minds eye has been there since the dawn of complex animal 
life even though it must have improved via evolution, it's the way we 
know to respond to threats, simple stimulus/response but so useful it 
got improved rapidly. This understanding of conscious correlates is 
proceeding well but the brain is the most complex structure in the 
known universe. So it's a bit early to say that consciousness is 
impossible or must be some sort of "other" thing from the rest of the 
stuff we know the universe is made of. And it's quite a relief that 
Sam Harris isn't a mystic he just has a different sense of the 
importance of inner experience than most scientists. I still see no 
evidence for quantum consciousness.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 
?

Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 

image 

Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 

The well-known New Atheist makes a case for the value of 
“spirituality,” which he bases on his experiences in meditation.

View on opinionator.blogs.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/8/2014 2:05 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from.

>
The obvious paradox is there needs to be a "self" in order to 
reincarnate in another human body. However, since energy is neither 
created or destroyed, the only thing that could reincarnate would be a 
"spirit" /consciousness/ that takes /rebirth/ - not with a soul, but 
with /karmic/ faculties and knowledge.

Harris argues that states of mind should be subjected to formal 
scientific investigation, without incorporating the /"woo woo"/ and 
superstition that often accompanies meditation, such as 
/levitation//myths/ and other claims of /super-normal powers (siddhis)/.

>

Nothing to do with mystic woo woo at all.

>
Someone needs to tell Barry that Harris says the idea of free will is 
incoherent. Humans are not free and no sense can be given to the concept 
that they might be.

>

In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

>
So, you believe in reincarnation? On what basis?
>

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life 
itself for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a 
rock isn't conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, 
therefore it must be the organisation inside my head that gives rise 
to awareness. This is quite obviously born out by experiment.

No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self 
resides, evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it 
would have to be a very ancient biological structure and yet it acts 
all modern with its feelings etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the 
brain from the ancient reptilian parts that gives us instincts and 
simple motor function responses, the mid brain or limbic system we 
share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires and 
learned responses like fight or flight.

On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning 
and episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we 
experience and use all of them with the top, most recently evolved 
bit, wondering where all the inner stuff comes from.

You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, 
in severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by 
cutting the connecting nerves. People can still function but if you 
place a screen between someone's eyes so they can't see what's on the 
other side your left eye will see things but you won't know what they 
are even though your right hand can draw them! This means there must 
be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is that?

I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is 
working out exactly what everything is doing and when. The inner minds 
eye has been there since the dawn of complex animal life even though 
it must have improved via evolution, it's the way we know to respond 
to threats, simple stimulus/response but so useful it got improved 
rapidly. This understanding of conscious correlates is proceeding well 
but the brain is the most complex structure in the known universe. So 
it's a bit early to say that consciousness is impossible or must be 
some sort of "other" thing from the rest of the stuff we know the 
universe is made of. And it's quite a relief that Sam Harris isn't a 
mystic he just has a different sense of the importance of inner 
experience than most scientists. I still see no evidence for quantum 
consciousness.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 
?

image 

Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 

The well-known New Atheist makes a case for the value of 
“spirituality,” which he bases on his experiences in meditation.

View on opinionator.blogs.nyti... 

Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] My Sense Of Humor

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Be warned...  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The End is Near

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

Let's hope there isn't an afterlife, it'd be an embarrassing conversation 
trying to explain to all the other denizens of the universe what happened if we 
destroy the whole of existence. 

 "We just just wanted to see what it looked like"
 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Stephen Hawking has become a prophet of doom.  He warns that the Higgs Boson 
could become unstable and wipe out the entire universe.
 

 http://news.yahoo.com/stephen-hawking-god-particle-could-163109712.html 
http://news.yahoo.com/stephen-hawking-god-particle-could-163109712.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

It's funny...I had exactly the same response, wondering how many 
people who have *seriously* invested in claiming that they have *the* 
solution for who the Ripper was will find some way to deny this. 
Science, after all, is no match for True Believerism.  :-)

Many a true word spoken in jest. The 75 pages of books on Amazon may 
become obsolete but I doubt that will be the end of it. Could be a 
whole new industry of conspiracy theories about how he didn't work 
alone etc... Maybe he worked with Benji Creme's female ripper.

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the 
science is flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

And what about the Easter bunny and leprechauns? Are they in danger of 
being "outed" too?

>
On 9/8/2014 9:21 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote:
>

Don't out Barry here. I began, but was seriously chided by Judy.

>
For Barry, it's "woo woo", so we will never know for sure. For the other 
Barry, it's a "conspiracy." Apparently there were two residents at the 
asylum named "Kosminski", and one was not known to harbor any violent 
tendencies. Go figure.

Paul Begg, /Jack the Ripper: the Uncensored Facts./ London: Robson 
Books, 1995, pp. 206–207.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough 
to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he 
saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is 
not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony 
that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo 
woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is 
captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly 
ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or 
pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell 
you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet 
above the Sonoma desert? 

 >
 On 9/8/2014 9:35 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote:
 >
 I love Sonoma!

 >
 My daughter and her kids live in Santa Rosa, CA and we travel there every year 
- it's a great place to visit and Mendecino too. We have some great memories of 
time spent at a hippie commune up there with Wavy Gravy and Tim Leary.

I love Wavy Gravy!

Coincidentally my #1 daughter attended Berkley Law, so we got into a yearly 
habit of visiting California Wine Country. I didn't want to talk about myself 
and bore everyone, but I was very concerned about the Wine Storage Facility 
when the quake was reported here first.

After a fire at the Facility, prices of Cali wines shot up in NYC. That opened 
the door for every other country in the world to ship here. NYer's tried them 
and liked them. So now I only drink cheap Californias.

 Doug Sahm - Mendocino - Live from Austin City Limits

 http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s
 >
 The Other wrote a book?

 Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review.

 >
 And, it's a pretty good book too, much better than what he's writing these 
days:

I understood him to be practicing his typing skills here. I had only assumed 
that he did better on some local site, where they understood English with some 
difficulty.

 http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind

 Literate in NYC,
 doc D

 >
 So, I'm not sure the so-called Rama levitation golden-light event can be 
explained without resource to the "woo woo" factor. Maybe you could say it was 
a case of lucid dreaming or mass hysteria brought on by the ingestion of 
hallucinogenics or sleep deprivation.

 Or, that Rama's lifting up and hovering was just a series of mentally 
projected point-instants, making it appear that Rama was levitating, when in 
reality Rama moved not a single inch. That's one of the problems with 
perceptions - sometimes they can't be trusted.

 'Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure'
 by Frederick Lenz
 St. Martin's 1995

 'Snowboarding to Nirvana: A Novel'
 by Frederick Lenz 
 St. Martin's, 1998
 >

Richard,

The technical term is "Barry Delusion". 

The layman's phrase is "Bullshit"

Always trying to help barry see himself as others see him. Helpfully.
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.sk

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear
other eye witness accounts.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation,
but that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It
has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's
trick.

Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that
practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave.
>

You would think something like that would have created major
buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around.

Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not
'fortunate' enough to have been around the ego bloated man
named Rama. He can never prove what he saw ever happened
which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is
not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any
outside testimony that can prove any of what bawee says Rama
did ever happened is the true woo woo of all of this. Can you
imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in
some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was
hardly ancient history so surely there could have been a few
films or videos or pictures taken of these monumental
super-human antics. By the way, did I tell you I saw a guy
eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet
above the Sonoma desert?

>
On 9/8/2014 9:35 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote:
>

I love Sonoma!

>
My daughter and her kids live in Santa Rosa, CA and we travel there 
every year - it's a great place to visit and Mendecino too. We have some 
great memories of time spent at a hippie commune up there with Wavy 
Gravy and Tim Leary.

Doug Sahm - Mendocino - Live from Austin City Limits

http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s
>

The Other wrote a book?

Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review.

>
And, it's a pretty good book too, much better than what he's writing 
these days:

http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind

Literate in NYC,
doc D

>
So, I'm not sure the /so-called Rama levitation golden-light event/ can 
be explained without resource to the "woo woo" factor. Maybe you could 
say it was a case of /lucid dreaming/ or /mass hysteria/ brought on by 
the ingestion of hallucinogenics or sleep deprivation.

Or, that Rama's /lifting up and hovering/ was just a series of mentally 
projected /point-instants/, making it /appear/ that Rama was levitating, 
when in reality Rama moved not a single inch. That's one of the problems 
with perceptions - /sometimes they can't be trusted./

/'Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure'/
by Frederick Lenz
St. Martin's 1995

/'Snowboarding to Nirvana: A Novel'/
by Frederick Lenz
St. Martin's, 1998
>

Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving
to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be
fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama
levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on
/alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on /alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick
a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on
a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions -
maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure.
>

And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never
looked for them.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation,
but that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It
has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's
trick.
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :

On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@...
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:

What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience,
and that of many others.

>
We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry.
Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in
either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention
them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These
events were pretty much debunked totally by /The Amazing
Randi/ on the /alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a long
time ago.

/'Take Me For a Ride'/
Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
by Mark E. Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993

>
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :
>

Have you heard about the /"Indian Rope Trick?"/

In the rope trick, the magician is usually

Re: [FairfieldLife] Nostradamus 1 week out


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Good reason to keep some electronic devices and a solar charger around the 
house in some kind of Faraday Cage.  I'm still on the lookout for an old picnic 
cooler like my folks had from the late 1950s.  It was all metal on the outside 
with plastic lining inside.  Perfect for a small Faraday Cage.
 
 OTOH, I like many other people have a weak cellular signal in the house but 
step outside and it may be all four bars.  So there is possibly enough metal in 
my house frame (and garage that I actually use for my car) to prevent stuff 
getting damaged during a solar storm or a war attack with an EMF device.


  Dear Bhairitu,

I once had a puffback in my furnace. Did Faraday have his hand in that?


 On 09/08/2014 08:07 AM, john_carter_bsc@... mailto:john_carter_bsc@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   

 How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastrophe on Earth 
 
 
 
 How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastr... On July 23, 2012, 
the sun unleashed two massive clouds of plasma that barely missed a 
catastrophic encounter with the Earth's atmosph...


 
 View on www.washingtonpos... 
 Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 9/8/2014 9:00 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some
sort of selfie or iPhone image? >
Remember the future.

Quite often, it's not what a guru does or says, it's what his followers say
and claim after the guru is gone. After reading all the books that Rama wrote
and published and watching him on YouTube, it is obvious to me that he was a
pretty common-sense kind of guy, for his day and age -1980s and 90s.

What I'm objecting to is not what Rama said or did, but what some of the Rama
informants say he did or said.

Based on what Barry has posted to FFL, the Rama guy employed "woo woo" and was
a "charlatan" - a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill
- a guy attempting to sell tickets to a levitation event for money.

This is false - Fred Lenz was NOT a fraud. In fact, Lenz held a Ph.D. from a
UNY at Stony Brook, a very prestigious school and he was a published author of
some repute. When you read and hear what Lenz wrote or said, it was nothing
like what Barry has claimed - Fred Lenz was a very good teacher and mood-maker.

Rama - The Mind Body Connection

http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw

Listened to this yesterday:

Order #D01-6320438-7399532
http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FV&C=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3&H=Q9CAZCJ3WATTAX7MIWREMVJE9PIA&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fdigital%2Fyour-account%2Forder-summary.html%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1YA%3ForderID%3DD01-6320438-7399532
Placed on Sunday, September 7, 2014
http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FV&C=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3&H=7ARXJKQ3RN9OFHLQ5R4TQRLYDSEA&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fdmusic%2Fredirect%2Flaunch%3Fref_%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1mp3_oce_play
The Bhagavad-Gita
http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FV&C=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3&H=ZELSRKGQQBDQO75O4YAJEJW8HNGA&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB00AMSF5RS%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1DP
MP3 Download
Sold by Amazon Digital Services, Inc.
>
Remember the future.

What I'm objecting to is not what Rama said or did, but what some of the Rama
informants say he did or said.

Rama - The Mind Body Connection

http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw

Listened to this yesterday:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Huh? I had fun with it. I debunked the theory because it was "bad science."
How many triangles did you actually see? Not only that they fucked up and made
the graphic exactly the way I described BUT left "anti-aliasing on." I said it
"looked" like the white triangle wash a different shade than the background and
that was because I perceived an "edge" between the white triangle and the white
background. So later yesterday I saved the image and took it into a graphics
program and used the "eyedropper" tools to find the color values. The white
triangle and the background were both pure white ("ff") BUT at the edge of
the supposed white triangle and background are the color values "fefefe" and
"fdfdfd". Slight shades of white my eyes were picking up making an edge to the
"supposed" white triangle which was there due to anti-aliasing.

So I caught their little cheat. IOW, if they did it properly they would have
made the image out of "Pac-Men" and arrows. But that was probably too hard.

Nothing about ego at all, just doing "due diligence." ;-)

Dearest Bhairitu,

You have gotten to the truth of this discussion with great competence.

Perception is the most important means of gaining Knowledge. All knowledge is
ultimately dependent upon one's Experience. In Maharishi's Commentary on Brahma
Sutras, he states that even if a thousnad scriptures were to tell that fire is
cold, one should not ignore one's own experience (Shankara).

Consciousness assumes forms, and that is one's knowledge.

On 09/08/2014 12:37 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having some
fun with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a
similar illusion:

S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can
see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually
the question is phrased wrong.

[FairfieldLife] Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception


On 9/8/2014 9:25 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote:
The only "insight" I came away with as a result of rapping about this 
is a feeling for what the difference is between me (or anyone who 
studied with Rama) and long-term TMers.


They're still looking for experiences that match the many theories 
that were told to them along the Way. We're still looking for theories 
that adequately explain experiences we had many, many times.


Isn't bawee amazing, folks? So cavalier, so unimpressed, so blase. I 
tell you, a man of the world who takes all things miraculous in stride 
is so rare and so gifted and so amazing that I am still shaking my 
head in wonderment. And so should all of you.


Yes, I continually shake my head regarding B (this B, not the other 
B...Just to clarify: I refer to this B as 'the Other'...an obvious tag).

>
Just to make this all clear: There is the Barry TB and the Barry2, both 
are /True Believers./ It's not complicated.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Nostradamus 1 week out

2014-09-08 Thread Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]

Good reason to keep some electronic devices and a solar charger around 
the house in some kind of Faraday Cage.  I'm still on the lookout for an 
old picnic cooler like my folks had from the late 1950s.  It was all 
metal on the outside with plastic lining inside.  Perfect for a small 
Faraday Cage.


OTOH, I like many other people have a weak cellular signal in the house 
but step outside and it may be all four bars.  So there is possibly 
enough metal in my house frame (and garage that I actually use for my 
car) to prevent stuff getting damaged during a solar storm or a war 
attack with an EMF device.


On 09/08/2014 08:07 AM, john_carter_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:



  How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastrophe on Earth
  





  image
  




  How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastr...
  


  On July 23, 2012, the sun unleashed two massive clouds of plasma
  that barely missed a catastrophic encounter with the Earth's atmosph...

  View on www.washingtonpos...
  



  Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]


On 9/8/2014 9:00 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in 
some sort of selfie or iPhone image?

>
Remember the future.

Quite often, it's not what a guru does or says, it's what his followers 
say and claim after the guru is gone. After reading all the books that 
Rama wrote and published and watching him on YouTube, it is obvious to 
me that he was a pretty common-sense kind of guy, for his day and age 
-1980s and 90s.


What I'm objecting to is /not what Rama said or did/, but what some of 
the Rama informants say he did or said.


Based on what Barry has posted to FFL, the Rama guy employed /"woo woo"/ 
and was a "charlatan" - /a person falsely claiming to have a special 
knowledge or skill/ - a guy attempting to sell tickets to a levitation 
event for money.


/This is false /- Fred Lenz was NOT a fraud. In fact, Lenz held a Ph.D. 
from a UNY at Stony Brook, a very prestigious school and he was a 
published author of some repute. When you read and hear what Lenz wrote 
or said, it was nothing like what Barry has claimed - Fred Lenz was a 
very good teacher and mood-maker.


/Rama - The Mind Body Connection/

http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]

Huh? I had fun with it. I debunked the theory because it was "bad
science." How many triangles did you *actually* see? Not only that
they fucked up and made the graphic exactly the way I described *BUT*
left "anti-aliasing on." I said it "looked" like the white triangle
wash a different shade than the background and that was because I
perceived an "edge" between the white triangle and the white
background. So later yesterday I saved the image and took it into a
graphics program and used the "eyedropper" tools to find the color
values. The white triangle and the background were both pure white
("ff") *BUT *at the edge of the supposed white triangle and
background are the color values "fefefe" and "fdfdfd". Slight shades of
white my eyes were picking up making an edge to the "supposed" white
triangle which was there *due to anti-aliasing.*

So I caught their little cheat. IOW, if they did it properly they would
have made the image out of "Pac-Men" and arrows. But that was probably
too hard.

Nothing about ego at all, just doing "due diligence." ;-)

On 09/08/2014 12:37 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having
some fun with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris
riffing on a similar illusion:

*S.H.*: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps
you can see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

It certainly looks like there is a white square in the center of this
figure, but when we study the image, it becomes clear that there are
only four partial circles. The square has been imposed by our visual
system, whose edge detectors have been fooled. Can we /know/ that the
black shapes are more real than the white one? Yes, because the square
doesn’t survive our efforts to locate it — its edges literally
disappear. A little investigation and we see that its form has been
merely implied.

What could we say to a skeptic who insisted that the white square is
just as real as the three-quarter circles and that its disappearance
is nothing more than, as you say, “a relatively rare — and
deliberately cultivated — experience”? All we could do is urge him to
look more closely.

The same is true about the conventional sense of self — the feeling of
being a subject inside your head, a locus of consciousness behind your
eyes, a thinker in addition to the flow of thoughts. This form of
subjectivity does not survive scrutiny. If you really look for what
you are calling “I,” this feeling will disappear. In fact, it is
easier to experience consciousness without the feeling of self than it
is to banish the white square in the above image.

*From:* "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

kanisza triangle, perception, perceptual hypothesis, bottom-up,
top-down, brain, cortex, illusions

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23?
Actually the question is *phrased* *wrong*.

Ask any computer graphics artist how they would create this image.
They would start with one purple triangle. Why purple? We'll get to
that in a minute. Next at one point in the triangle they would
*intersect *a black circle. They would then copy the black circle and
paste two more each each point of the purple triangle. Then select
all three circles and put them on the bottom layer. This way the
purple triangle overlaps the black triangles to create the "Pac-Man".
Next select the purple triangle and copy it then *flip* the triangle.
Now we have *two* triangles forming a star. Select that new triangle
and change the *fill *color to white or background and the *stroke*
(outline) to black. Push that triangle to the bottom layer. Now we
have the purple triangle on top. Select it and change the *fill *color
to white (or background) and the *stroke *also to white.

Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How
many images would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way? 6. And
a much more difficult image to construct that way too.

So, I as a computer person who does both graphics programming and art
see *two *triangles. Perhaps the correct question would have been
"how many *complete* triangles do you see? The answer could then be
*none***(though I need to examine the graphic carefully as the top
triangle might not actually be the same color as the background as I
perceive an

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Dan, I think you AM all (-:
I am That
Thou art That
All This is That
That alone is



On Monday, September 8, 2014 10:21 AM, danfriedman2002 
 wrote:
 


  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth 
lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is 
gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-:


Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks?
Oranges are better for eating. Fork lift trucks are better for lifting.

Are you thinking that I'm just a know-it-All?

On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:



 
On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

 
>>>Sure, I see what you
are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.
>>>
>
>>Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real."
- Sam Harris
>>
>>"What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and
sitting
>>in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in
>>the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for 
>>a while." 
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>On
9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>Well,
I've never
looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear
other eye
witness accounts.
>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of
levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo"
factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a
magician's trick.

Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone
that practices Woo
woo is just a fool and knave.
>


>
>You
would think
something like that would have created
major buzz, such
that there'd be stories floating around.
>
Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like
dick-waving to me.
And anyway, his account has already been proved to
be fraudulent by
Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation
events have
already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on 
alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead
horse? So, I
don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread
about why you
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because
Judy is no longer
posting? Go figure.
>


>
>And
maybe those
stories are out there.  I've just never
looked for them.
>
>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of
levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo"
factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a
magician's trick.
>



>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>On
9/7/2014
11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>
> 
>>>What I
know is that
this was Barry's direct
experience, and
that of many
others.
>
>>We've only heard from one eye
witness so far,
Barry. Levitation
events are not mentioned by Rama
himself in either
of his two books
and Mark Laxer doesn't mention
them. Barry failed
to mention it in
his own book! These events were
pretty much
debunked totally by The
Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group
a long time ago.
>>
>>'Take Me For a Ride'
>>Coming Of Age In A Destructive
Cult
>>by Mark E. Laxer
>>Outer Rim Press, 1993
>>
>>>
>>--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>>>
>>
>>Have you heard
about the "Indian
Rope
Trick?"

In the rope
trick, the
magician
is usually
accompanied by a
couple
of boy
assistants. In
Rama's
case, he seems
to
have required
over
200 assistants,
both male and
female. Go
figure.

"The Indian rope
trick is stage
magic said to
have
been performed
in
and around India
during the 19th
century.
Sometimes
described as
"the world’s
greatest
illusion",
it reputedly
involved a
magician, a
length of rope,
and one or more
boy
assistants"

Indian rope
trick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
>



>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>Cool
class
experiment.
I
should
remember to
try
it around my
artist
friends. Would
they be
less likely to
see red
in a color
only
close to it on
the
spectrum, or
more
likely?
>
>
>I
have a natural
fascination
for this
stuff,
you must
understand,
because I have
had a
number of
perceptions
that it would
have
been FAR more
convenient
for me NOT to
have had. Like
seeing
someone
levitate.
Like seeing
triangular-shaped
dimensional
doorways
open
up in
front of me in
what a
moment earlier
had been
the side of a
mountain, and
being able
to see stars
through the
doorways.
Like seeing a
guy
six feet in
front of me
"go
invisible,"
such that I
could see
the desert
landscape
through him. 
>>>

[FairfieldLife] Mukti: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 09/08/2014

2014-09-08 Thread 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife]

 






  

 


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*   249. Mukti

 




 

 249. Mukti


By Rick on Sep 07, 2014 10:35 pm



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth 
lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is 
gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-:

 Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks?
Oranges are better for eating. Fork lift trucks are better for lifting.

Are you thinking that I'm just a know-it-All?

 On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:

 On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.

 >
 Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real." - Sam 
Harris

 "What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting
 in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in
 the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for 
 a while." 

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 >
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic 
discussion group a long time ago.

 'Take Me For a Ride'
 Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
 by Mark E. Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993

 >
 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 >
 Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?"

 In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy 
assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both 
male and female. Go figure.

 "The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and 
around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s 
greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one 
or more boy assistants"

 Indian rope trick:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-h

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

It's funny...I had exactly the same response, wondering how many people who
have *seriously* invested in claiming that they have *the* solution for who the
Ripper was will find some way to deny this. Science, after all, is no match for
True Believerism. :-)

Many a true word spoken in jest. The 75 pages of books on Amazon may become
obsolete but I doubt that will be the end of it. Could be a whole new industry
of conspiracy theories about how he didn't work alone etc... Maybe he worked
with Benji Creme's female ripper.

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the science is
flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

And what about the Easter bunny and leprechauns? Are they in danger of being
"outed" too?

Let's see. We know the Ripper has 75 pages of books on Amazon.

The Turin Shroud has 55.

Creationism also gets 75.

Amazingly, the Easter Bunny also gets 75 pages, so we can conclude that a
scientific investigation is well overdue*

No need to look for Leprechauns though, everyone knows they are real.

*Or I don't know much about Amazon's page numbering system.

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most notorious criminal
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html

The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most not...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html
A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddowes, one of the Ripper’s victims,
has been analysed and found to contain DNA from her as well as the killer.

View on www.dailymail.co.uk
Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread John Carter john_carter_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth 
lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is 
gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-:

 Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks?

 On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:

 On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.

 >
 Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real." - Sam 
Harris

 "What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting
 in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in
 the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for 
 a while." 

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 >
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic 
discussion group a long time ago.

 'Take Me For a Ride'
 Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
 by Mark E. Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993

 >
 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 >
 Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?"

 In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy 
assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both 
male and female. Go figure.

 "The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and 
around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s 
greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one 
or more boy assistants"

 Indian rope trick:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "futur

Re: [FairfieldLife] Milky-Way is on the outskirts of Laniakea supercluster

Hi
Thought this Nostradamus near miss may be of interest.
How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastrophe on Earth

  
 
How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastro...
On July 23, 2012, the sun unleashed two massive clouds of plasma that barely 
missed a catastrophic encounter with the Earth's atmosphere.  
View on www.washingtonpos... Preview by Yahoo  
  
 


On Saturday, September 6, 2014 2:09 PM, "Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
So Xeno, could we say that jedi's totally cool post triggered one of turq's 
samskaras? 



On Saturday, September 6, 2014 6:33 AM, "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
From: "jedi_sp...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 



Our galaxy Milky-Way is on the outskirts of a massive 
supercluster called Laniakea, which consists of 100,000 
large galaxies.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/03/
milky-way-laniakea-galaxy-supercluster-immeasurable-heaven



And it is generally considered to be the asshole of the entire galactic 
supercluster, in the same way Detroit is considered to be the asshole of 
America.  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Nostradamus 1 week out

2014-09-08 Thread john_carter_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]



 How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastrophe on Earth 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/07/23/how-a-solar-storm-nearly-destroyed-life-as-we-know-it-two-years-ago/
 
 
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/07/23/how-a-solar-storm-nearly-destroyed-life-as-we-know-it-two-years-ago/
 
 
 How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastr... 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/07/23/how-a-solar-storm-nearly-destroyed-life-as-we-know-it-two-years-ago/
 On July 23, 2012, the sun unleashed two massive clouds of plasma that barely 
missed a catastrophic encounter with the Earth's atmosph...
 
 
 
 View on www.washingtonpos... 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/07/23/how-a-solar-storm-nearly-destroyed-life-as-we-know-it-two-years-ago/
 
 Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

The only "insight" I came away with as a result of rapping about this 
is a feeling for what the difference is between me (or anyone who 
studied with Rama) and long-term TMers.

They're still looking for experiences that match the many theories 
that were told to them along the Way. We're still looking for theories 
that adequately explain experiences we had many, many times.

>
On 9/8/2014 8:53 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>

Isn't bawee amazing, folks? So cavalier, so unimpressed, so blase. I 
tell you, a man of the world who takes all things miraculous in stride 
is so rare and so gifted and so amazing that I am still shaking my 
head in wonderment. And so should all of you.

>
Barry's /woo woo/ claims make any claims made by MMY or TMers seem like 
just plain common sense. Go figure.

Blade Runner - "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe..."

http://youtu.be/QefqJ7YhbWQ

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth 
lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is 
gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' 
pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

  
>Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.
>
>
Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real."
- Sam Harris

"What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and
sitting
in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in
the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for 
a while." 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
>


>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>
>  
>>>Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
>>>accounts.
>
>>What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of
levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo"
factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a
magician's trick.
>>
>>Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone
that practices Woo
woo is just a fool and knave.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
>>>there'd be stories floating around.
>
>>Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like
dick-waving to me.
And anyway, his account has already been proved to
be fraudulent by
Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation
events have
already been discussed and trashed on 
alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I 
don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust 
your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.
>>>
>
>>What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of
levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo"
factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a
magician's trick.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>On
9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
>others.
>
We've only heard from one eye
  witness so far,
  Barry. Levitation
  events are not mentioned by Rama
  himself in either
  of his two books
  and Mark Laxer doesn't mention
  them. Barry failed
  to mention it in
  his own book! These events were
  pretty much
  debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on 
the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago.

'Take Me For a Ride'
Coming Of Age In A Destructive
  Cult
by Mark E. Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993

>
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>

Have you heard about the "Indian
Rope Trick?"
>>
>>In the rope
trick, the
magician
is usually
accompanied by a
couple
of boy
assistants. In
Rama's
case, he seems
to
have required
over
200 assistants,
both male and
female. Go
figure.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.

>
Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real." - 
Sam Harris

"What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting
in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in
the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for
a while."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@...  
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other
eye witness accounts.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick.

Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices
Woo woo is just a fool and knave.
>

You would think something like that would have created major
buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around.

>
Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to
me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be
fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation
events have already been discussed and trashed on
/alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on /alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick a
dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a
thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe
because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure.
>

And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked
for them.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but
that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has
already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick.
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :

On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and
that of many others.

>
We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry.
Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either
of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry
failed to mention it in his own book! These events were
pretty much debunked totally by /The Amazing Randi/ on the
/alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a long time ago.

/'Take Me For a Ride'/
Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
by Mark E. Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993

>
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :
>

Have you heard about the /"Indian Rope Trick?"/

In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied
by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems
to have required over 200 assistants, both male and
female. Go figure.

"The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been
performed in and around India during the 19th century.
Sometimes described as "the world’s greatest illusion",
it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and
one or more boy assistants"

Indian rope trick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
,
  wrote :

Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it
around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to
see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or
more likely?

I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must
understand, because I have had a number of perceptions
that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT
to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front
of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a
mountain, and being able to see stars through the
doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go
invisible," such that I could see the desert landscape
through him.

I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over
many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of
other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time
with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex,"

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


I really don't know where you get all this anger from just because people don't 
see the world the way you do.

Just the effects of years of TMSP




 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York 
Times opinionator:  there is no self
 


  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide
open to research in consciousness like TM does.  Read the article.
In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does science on
'introspective' woo-woo that way too!  You guys must be very
disappointed to have lost what you have seen as your champion against
meditating from the public arena. 

What are you jibbering about man? Honestly Buck, you turn up here every few 
weeks and tilt at windmills till the saliva dribbles down your chin yet you 
obviously aren't following the argument because I agree with Sam Harris and I 
doubt he'd agree with you.

I really don't know where you get all this anger from just because people don't 
see the world the way you do. It's bizarre. Sam Harris is a neurophysiologist, 
he'll know all about heirarchical nesting theories. What he's saying here is 
that science isn't perhaps the best way of telling us about our inner 
experience, not that conventional explanations of our "selves" aren't justified.

Read it again and get back to us.



 A pitiable thing here is that you
guys quite evidently do not use your nervous system very effectively
that scientific way Harris does whilst yous even got a human nervous
system on this planet. 
 Take for instance a hypothesis based on
observation:  Make haste, make use of your time in meditation and
then you'll know more.  Harris is even urging you saying that
effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so many
ways.  Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically
is at: http://www.tm.org/ Your
own science methodology in spirituality evidently seems must not
be very good for some reason to experiment with.  You quitters ought
to get your meditations checked so you could be a credible part of a modern 
spiritual discussion.  Unless you are really satisfied being in the control 
group.  According to the research your spirituality might even do everyone some 
good if you would work on it.  The experience
of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris
mentions in form like around the vasana of anger in your systems.  Do
some more science of your own experimenting.  Meditating in the field
effect of effective spiritual practice groups is found to be useful,
may be look for that too to help you in your research.
Have a really wonderful day today on
planet earth,
after meditating this morning I got to
unload 300 bales of hay.
300 more coming this afternoon before
meditation,
-Buck 

“In
“Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any
faith-based assumptions about what exists outside of our own
experience. And it arises from the same spirit of honest inquiry that
motivates science itself.” 
-Sam
Harris

turquoiseb@...> wrote :


From:salyavin808 


Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.

No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all
modern with its feelings etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from 
the ancient reptilian parts that gives us instincts and simple motor function 
responses, the mid brain or limbic system we share with most other mammals that 
gives us emotions, desires and learned responses like fight or flight.

On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.

You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by cutting the 
connecting nerves. People
can still function but if you place a screen between someone's eyes so they 
can't see what's on the other side your left eye will see things but you won't 
know what they are

[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread john_carter_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough 
to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he 
saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is 
not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony 
that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo 
woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is 
captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly 
ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or 
pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell 
you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet 
above the Sonoma desert? 

 >
I love Sonoma!

The Other wrote a book?

Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review.

Literate in NYC,
doc D
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic 
discussion group a long time ago.

 'Take Me For a Ride'
 Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
 by Mark E. Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993

 >
 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 >
 Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?"

 In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy 
assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both 
male and female. Go figure.

 "The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and 
around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s 
greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one 
or more boy assistants"

 Indian rope trick:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?

 I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and 
the pl

[FairfieldLife] If it had hit, we would still be picking up the pieces

Hi
Saw this article in my newspaper a few weeks ago and expected it to be on the 
BBC news, but it seems they didn't want to frighten the sheeple. - seems 
Nostradamus was 1 week out when he predicted bad times for 2012 -  450 year ago.
Near Miss: The Solar Superstorm of July 2012 - NASA Science 
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/ 
 
 http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/ 
 
 Near Miss: The Solar Superstorm of July 2012 -... 
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/ Two 
years ago today, a historic solar storm narrowly missed Earth, prompting 
forecasters to revise the odds of future impacts.
 
 
 
 View on science.nasa.gov 
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/ 
 Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

You got it wrong Buck. "faith-based assumption"  perfectly describes the real 
True Believer TM mind set.

 From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York 
Times opinionator:  there is no self

Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide
open to research in consciousness like TM does.  Read the article. 
In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does science on
'introspective' woo-woo that way too!  You guys must be very
disappointed to have lost what you have seen as your champion against
meditating from the public arena.  A pitiable thing here is that you
guys quite evidently do not use your nervous system very effectively
that scientific way Harris does whilst yous even got a human nervous
system on this planet. 
 Take for instance a hypothesis based on
observation:  Make haste, make use of your time in meditation and
then you'll know more.  Harris is even urging you saying that
effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so many
ways.  Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically
is at: http://www.tm.org/ Your
own science methodology in spirituality evidently seems must not
be very good for some reason to experiment with.  You quitters ought
to get your meditations checked so you could be a credible part of a modern 
spiritual discussion.  Unless you are really satisfied being in the control 
group.  According to the research your spirituality might even do everyone some 
good if you would work on it.  The experience
of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris
mentions in form like around the vasana of anger in your systems.  Do
some more science of your own experimenting.  Meditating in the field
effect of effective spiritual practice groups is found to be useful,
may be look for that too to help you in your research.
Have a really wonderful day today on
planet earth,
after meditating this morning I got to
unload 300 bales of hay.
300 more coming this afternoon before
meditation,
-Buck 

“In
“Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any
faith-based assumptions about what exists outside of our own
experience. And it arises from the same spirit of honest inquiry that
motivates science itself.”  
-Sam
Harris

turquoiseb@...> wrote :

From:salyavin808 

Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.

No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all
modern with its feelings etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from 
the ancient reptilian parts that gives us instincts and simple motor function 
responses, the mid brain or limbic system we share with most other mammals that 
gives us emotions, desires and learned responses like fight or flight.

On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.

You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by cutting the 
connecting nerves. People
can still function but if you place a screen between someone's eyes so they 
can't see what's on the other side your left eye will see things but you won't 
know what they are even though your right hand can draw them! This means there 
must be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is that?

I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is working out 
exactly what everything is doing and when. 

I've never understood those who go on and on about the "hard problem."
It's simply a non-issue to a pragmatic Buddhist. Who CARES about the "Why" of 
consciousness or "Where it comes from?" No one has ever known and no one ever 
will, and 'knowing' would do them no good even if they found what they thought 
was a suitable "Why" or "Where." 

The pragmatic spiritual approach is to leave all the figuring and the posturing 
about the "Why" of life to those who feel they have time to waste on such 
self-in

[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 9/8/2014 2:25 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion? >
 So, this is a dick-waving contest. I'm suggesting your experience was woo woo.
 
 Barry's crude hallucinations can't compare to any that I've experience 
first-hand. One time down in Mexico, I ate a magic mushroom taco and expanded 
my consciousness up the tenth level - I experienced the entire cosmos as a 
divine bi-unity, all inter-connected, just like the net of Lord Indra. 
Suddenly, I realized that we are all all related - I became enlightened on the 
spot! 
 
 Then, hovering right in front of me, appeared the Creator God of Volcanoes and 
His wife, the beautiful Wisdom Sophia, their son Baal, and their lovely 
daughter, Ashley. At that moment I realized that existence is, in reality, a 
great big family affair, all united in a great big Singular Field. 
 
 After abut three minutes, they all flew off and stood on a very high mountain, 
shooting out golden light and created a beautiful rainbow and God himself made 
a mighty thunder. It was just awesome!

SPOILER ALERT!

This is exactly like the last scene in Boyhood, a film I reviewed here 
yesterday.A film 12 years-in-the-making. Main character named "MJ" is very 
appealing, and he's having just this experience as the film closes. I hope that 
you enjoyed the character as much as I did, and join me in hoping the other 
people, who have not yet seen the movie, and are therefore not reading this, 
get as much pleasure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why you can't trust your own perception


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Just finishing up this train of thought for Sal, since yesterday was the first 
time I've thought about this Rama stuff in quite a while. Doing so was 
fun...for about ten minutes...and then I got back to the business of being in 
the now.  :-)

Comment at the bottom...


From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 
   From: salyavin808 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?
 

 You'll have to try it and see. Make sure you don't have a burnt sienna filing 
cabinet and you might get away with it. 
 

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?

 

 Depends if there were mushrooms in the pizza you had before hand ;-)
 

 I've said it before, I just wish I was there for any of it. I never met a guru 
that made me want to get involved like that and am way too sceptical now to 
take anyone seriously. But maybe if I met the right person I'd get swept along. 
I have no way of knowing.
 

 My best "can it possibly have happened" experience was when I'd got hold of a 
lot of LSD but couldn't find a gang to share it with as my raver mates were all 
busy jumping around in a field somewhere, so I took the lot myself as an 
experiment. Not only was it the wildest night of my life but I managed to 
travel back in time. I was hallucinating so much that it hurt and had to close 
my eyes and went on an inner trip that took me back through my childhood (very 
weird seeing teddy bears for the first time as a baby) and then conception - I 
assume, loads of spinning, exploding diamonds in space, haven't checked this 
with my folks of course.
 

 Then I went further back through previous lives it was like flying over a 
landscape and through peoples minds and lives, and the places they lived and 
then the scenery changed and the only things I saw were trees and lakes, a real 
sense of distance getting faster and faster and then it stopped and I was on 
the side of a tree at night.
 

 It had been raining but what had startled me was the light, it was a dull 
orange glow and shouldn't have been there. I had no way of thinking as I was 
obviously some sort of nocturnal shrew or something, I scampered round the tree 
when a dinosaur came into view real close. It was an Iguanadon I'm certain, 
which put me in the early cretaceous around 80-90 million years ago. And I've 
got something to tell people about what colour they were but probably will keep 
it to myself. If only it was possible to communicate what it was all like being 
that sort of instinctual mind motivated by hunger and fear, it's in my top 5 
most amazing experiences to this day.
 

 But it gets weirder, when I got round the tree I saw the source of the light 
and it was a couple of highly odd looking robot aliens. Honestly. I couldn't 
have made them up if I tried. Not consciously. At that point I opened my eyes 
and decided I needed a walk, which is another couple of stories. knowing my 
interests in UFOs and paleontology I am obviously sure that my mind made it all 
up on the spot but boy it was an amazing accomplishment, at least as real as 
sitting here now. Religions have started for less though and I can see how 
people get started on mistaking what's inside for what's outside if it falls so 
far out of normal experience. And how it justifies beliefs in things like 
reincarnation. Unless Graham Hancock is right for the first time in his life.
 

 So it isn't really like your experience at all LOL. But I've typed it so it 
stays. 
 

 So it does. If you think about it, your and my experiences are probably rarer 
on this planet than experiences typed (related by, told by) people who went on 
to form religions, or who tried to. Our tales are along the lines of, "This is 
what we experienced...we don't know WTF it means, we're just telling the 
stories...do with them what you want."

In contrast, many people who went on to talk about their supposed spiritual 
experiences were more narcissistic and had more self-importance going for them. 
They couldn't just tell the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the science is
flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

And what about the Easter bunny and leprechauns? Are they in danger of being
"outed" too?
Don't out Barry here. I began, but was seriously chided by Judy.

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html

View on www.dailymail.co.uk
Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Edited.
I thought that I was The Opinionator of The New York Times. Better get that Ego 
in check.

In my opinion, just to opine on the matter opulently. I AGREE that Control 
Group is an apt and very scientific description.

I have opined.

Questions?

Signed NYC d...
...Reading the real NYT, not some imaginary visual on a screen. Did you notice 
the Big Ticket news article in Sunday's REAL Estate section?

At 740 Park, a $71 Million Sales Price

I live at 740. Thus the gold type.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide open to research in consciousness like 
TM does. Read the article. In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does 
science on 'introspective' woo-woo that way too! You guys must be very 
disappointed to have lost what you have seen as your champion against 
meditating from the public arena. 
 

 What are you jibbering about man? Honestly Buck, you turn up here every few 
weeks and tilt at windmills till the saliva dribbles down your chin yet you 
obviously aren't following the argument because I agree with Sam Harris and I 
doubt he'd agree with you about a lot of the fundamental assumptions that the 
mystics make, stuff like unified fields and yagyas and that sort of thing.
 

 I agree with him also the meditation has a lot to teach us personally about 
how our minds work. I've always thought that it will help unravel the mind 
because it changes how it works, watch what changes and how it's subjectively 
reported and you can see what brain structure does what.
 

 I really don't know where you get all this anger from just because people 
don't see the world the way you do. It's bizarre. Sam Harris is a 
neurophysiologist, he'll know all about heirarchical nesting theories that I 
mention below that explain how our conscious experience developed over millions 
of years. What he's saying here is that science isn't perhaps the best way of 
telling us about our inner experience, not that conventional explanations of 
our "selves" aren't justified.
 

 Read it again and get back to us.
 

 

 

  A pitiable thing here is that you guys quite evidently do not use your 
nervous system very effectively that scientific way Harris does whilst yous 
even got a human nervous system on this planet. 
  Take for instance a hypothesis based on observation: Make haste, make use of 
your time in meditation and then you'll know more. Harris is even urging you 
saying that effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so 
many ways. Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically is 
at: http://www.tm.org/ http://www.tm.org/ Your own science methodology in 
spirituality evidently seems must not be very good for some reason to 
experiment with. You quitters ought to get your meditations checked so you 
could be a credible part of a modern spiritual discussion.  Unless you are 
really satisfied being in the control group.  According to the research your 
spirituality might even do everyone some good if you would work on it. The 
experience of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an 
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris mentions in form 
like around the vasana of anger in your systems. Do some more science of your 
own experimenting. Meditating in the field effect of effective spiritual 
practice groups is found to be useful, may be look for that too to help you in 
your research.
 Have a really wonderful day today on planet earth,
 after meditating this morning I got to unload 300 bales of hay.
 300 more coming this afternoon before meditation,
 -Buck 
 

 “In “Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any faith-based 
assumptions about what exists outside of our own experience. And it arises from 
the same spirit of honest inquiry that motivates science itself.” 
 -Sam Harris
 

 turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 

 From: salyavin808 
 
 Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.
 

 No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all modern with its feelings 
etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from the ancient reptilian parts 
that gives us instincts and simple motor f

[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough 
to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he 
saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is 
not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony 
that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo 
woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is 
captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly 
ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or 
pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell 
you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet 
above the Sonoma desert? 

 >
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic 
discussion group a long time ago.

 'Take Me For a Ride'
 Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
 by Mark E. Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993

 >
 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 >
 Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?"

 In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy 
assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both 
male and female. Go figure.

 "The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and 
around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s 
greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one 
or more boy assistants"

 Indian rope trick:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?

 I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and 
the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these 
experiences of mine could have been the result of suggestion. But suggestion or 
not, th

[FairfieldLife] Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/8/2014 2:25 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So 
did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama 
guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future 
Memorex," created via suggestion?

>
So, this is a dick-waving contest. I'm suggesting your experience was 
woo woo.


Barry's crude hallucinations can't compare to any that I've experience 
first-hand. One time down in Mexico, I ate a magic mushroom taco and 
expanded my consciousness up the tenth level - I experienced the entire 
cosmos as a divine bi-unity, all inter-connected, just like the net of 
Lord Indra. Suddenly, I realized that we are all all related - I became 
enlightened on the spot!


Then, hovering right in front of me, appeared the /Creator God of 
Volcanoes/ and His wife, the beautiful /Wisdom Sophia/, their son 
/Baal/, and their lovely daughter, /Ashley./ At that moment I realized 
that existence is, in reality, a great big family affair, all united in 
a great big /Singular Field./


After abut three minutes, they all flew off and stood on a very high 
mountain, shooting out golden light and created a beautiful rainbow and 
God himself made a mighty thunder. It was just awesome!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Just finishing up this train of thought for Sal, since yesterday was the first 
time I've thought about this Rama stuff in quite a while. Doing so was 
fun...for about ten minutes...and then I got back to the business of being in 
the now.  :-)

Comment at the bottom...


From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 
   From: salyavin808 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?
 

 You'll have to try it and see. Make sure you don't have a burnt sienna filing 
cabinet and you might get away with it. 
 

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?

 

 Depends if there were mushrooms in the pizza you had before hand ;-)
 

 I've said it before, I just wish I was there for any of it. I never met a guru 
that made me want to get involved like that and am way too sceptical now to 
take anyone seriously. But maybe if I met the right person I'd get swept along. 
I have no way of knowing.
 

 My best "can it possibly have happened" experience was when I'd got hold of a 
lot of LSD but couldn't find a gang to share it with as my raver mates were all 
busy jumping around in a field somewhere, so I took the lot myself as an 
experiment. Not only was it the wildest night of my life but I managed to 
travel back in time. I was hallucinating so much that it hurt and had to close 
my eyes and went on an inner trip that took me back through my childhood (very 
weird seeing teddy bears for the first time as a baby) and then conception - I 
assume, loads of spinning, exploding diamonds in space, haven't checked this 
with my folks of course.
 

 Then I went further back through previous lives it was like flying over a 
landscape and through peoples minds and lives, and the places they lived and 
then the scenery changed and the only things I saw were trees and lakes, a real 
sense of distance getting faster and faster and then it stopped and I was on 
the side of a tree at night.
 

 It had been raining but what had startled me was the light, it was a dull 
orange glow and shouldn't have been there. I had no way of thinking as I was 
obviously some sort of nocturnal shrew or something, I scampered round the tree 
when a dinosaur came into view real close. It was an Iguanadon I'm certain, 
which put me in the early cretaceous around 80-90 million years ago. And I've 
got something to tell people about what colour they were but probably will keep 
it to myself. If only it was possible to communicate what it was all like being 
that sort of instinctual mind motivated by hunger and fear, it's in my top 5 
most amazing experiences to this day.
 

 But it gets weirder, when I got round the tree I saw the source of the light 
and it was a couple of highly odd looking robot aliens. Honestly. I couldn't 
have made them up if I tried. Not consciously. At that point I opened my eyes 
and decided I needed a walk, which is another couple of stories. knowing my 
interests in UFOs and paleontology I am obviously sure that my mind made it all 
up on the spot but boy it was an amazing accomplishment, at least as real as 
sitting here now. Religions have started for less though and I can see how 
people get started on mistaking what's inside for what's outside if it falls so 
far out of normal experience. And how it justifies beliefs in things like 
reincarnation. Unless Graham Hancock is right for the first time in his life.
 

 So it isn't really like your experience at all LOL. But I've typed it so it 
stays. 
 

 So it does. If you think about it, your and my experiences are probably rarer 
on this planet than experiences typed (related by, told by) people who went on 
to form religions, or who tried to. Our tales are along the lines of, "This is 
what we experienced...we don't know WTF it means, we're just telling the 
stories...do with them what you want."

In contrast, many people who went on to talk about their supposed spiritual 
experiences were more narcissistic and had more self-importance going for them. 
They couldn't just tell their stories and say, "That's it...make what you want

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the science is
flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

And what about the Easter bunny and leprechauns? Are they in danger of being
"outed" too?

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html

View on www.dailymail.co.uk
Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 Edited.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide open to research in consciousness like 
TM does. Read the article. In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does 
science on 'introspective' woo-woo that way too! You guys must be very 
disappointed to have lost what you have seen as your champion against 
meditating from the public arena. 
 

 What are you jibbering about man? Honestly Buck, you turn up here every few 
weeks and tilt at windmills till the saliva dribbles down your chin yet you 
obviously aren't following the argument because I agree with Sam Harris and I 
doubt he'd agree with you about a lot of the fundamental assumptions that the 
mystics make, stuff like unified fields and yagyas and that sort of thing.
 

 I agree with him also the meditation has a lot to teach us personally about 
how our minds work. I've always thought that it will help unravel the mind 
because it changes how it works, watch what changes and how it's subjectively 
reported and you can see what brain structure does what.
 

 I really don't know where you get all this anger from just because people 
don't see the world the way you do. It's bizarre. Sam Harris is a 
neurophysiologist, he'll know all about heirarchical nesting theories that I 
mention below that explain how our conscious experience developed over millions 
of years. What he's saying here is that science isn't perhaps the best way of 
telling us about our inner experience, not that conventional explanations of 
our "selves" aren't justified.
 

 Read it again and get back to us.
 

 

 

  A pitiable thing here is that you guys quite evidently do not use your 
nervous system very effectively that scientific way Harris does whilst yous 
even got a human nervous system on this planet. 
  Take for instance a hypothesis based on observation: Make haste, make use of 
your time in meditation and then you'll know more. Harris is even urging you 
saying that effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so 
many ways. Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically is 
at: http://www.tm.org/ http://www.tm.org/ Your own science methodology in 
spirituality evidently seems must not be very good for some reason to 
experiment with. You quitters ought to get your meditations checked so you 
could be a credible part of a modern spiritual discussion.  Unless you are 
really satisfied being in the control group.  According to the research your 
spirituality might even do everyone some good if you would work on it. The 
experience of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an 
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris mentions in form 
like around the vasana of anger in your systems. Do some more science of your 
own experimenting. Meditating in the field effect of effective spiritual 
practice groups is found to be useful, may be look for that too to help you in 
your research.
 Have a really wonderful day today on planet earth,
 after meditating this morning I got to unload 300 bales of hay.
 300 more coming this afternoon before meditation,
 -Buck 
 

 “In “Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any faith-based 
assumptions about what exists outside of our own experience. And it arises from 
the same spirit of honest inquiry that motivates science itself.” 
 -Sam Harris
 

 turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 

 From: salyavin808 
 
 Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.
 

 No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all modern with its feelings 
etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from the ancient reptilian parts 
that gives us instincts and simple motor function responses, the mid brain or 
limbic system we share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires 
and learned responses like fight or flight.
 

 On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.
 

 You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brai

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The thing is Barry, is that you believe in life after death, reincarnation, so
what does that say about a "self"

So what if the square is an illusion. That is supposed to negate a belief in
"self".

You don't believe that, so why bring it up in that context.

Maybe one day you can tell us more, what it's like not to have an ego. (-:

Gee Steve, too bad you had to go and "get all ego" about it "rather than
having some fun with it and possibly learning something". I mean, this was
revelatory for bawee (not) and he just wanted to share his revelation with the
rest of us so we could find it interesting and "learn" instead of using it as
just one more opportunity to berate us all for not finding this little graphic
equally as exciting as he did (not).

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having some fun
with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar
illusion:

S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can
see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually
the question is phrased wrong.

Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How many images
would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way? 6. And a much more difficult
image to construct that way too.

So, I as a computer person who does both graphics programming and art see two
triangles. Perhaps the correct question would have been "how many complete
triangles do you see? The answer could then be none (though I need to examine
the graphic carefully as the top triangle might not actually be the same color
as the background as I perceive an edge).

Oh, why a purple triangle? This is an often unused color in pictures that
artists will use temporarily for transparent areas. If purple is used then
they can use another color that isn't used in the graphic.

I'll give the academics a D+ for effort. :-D

[FairfieldLife] Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/8/2014 6:49 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

The thing is Barry, is that you believe in life after death,
reincarnation, so what does that say about a "self"

>
So, you're saying that Barry believes in the woo woo of reincarnation?
And, that in order to reincarnate a person has to have an individual
soul to be able to reincarnate? That sounds like woo woo. If there is no
"self" what is it exactly, that reincarnates? Without a soul-monad there
would be nothing to reincarnate. Maybe Barry got mixed up again - in
previous messages he stated that he even remembers a few his previous
"selfs." Go figure.

So what if the square is an illusion. That is supposed to negate a
belief in "self".

You don't believe that, so why bring it up in that context.

Maybe one day you can tell us more, what it's like not to have an ego. (-:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having
some fun with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris
riffing on a similar illusion:

*S.H.*: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps
you can see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

It certainly looks like there is a white square in the center of this
figure, but when we study the image, it becomes clear that there are
only four partial circles. The square has been imposed by our visual
system, whose edge detectors have been fooled. Can we /know/ that the
black shapes are more real than the white one? Yes, because the square
doesn’t survive our efforts to locate it — its edges literally
disappear. A little investigation and we see that its form has been
merely implied.

What could we say to a skeptic who insisted that the white square is
just as real as the three-quarter circles and that its disappearance
is nothing more than, as you say, “a relatively rare — and
deliberately cultivated — experience”? All we could do is urge him to
look more closely.

The same is true about the conventional sense of self — the feeling of
being a subject inside your head, a locus of consciousness behind your
eyes, a thinker in addition to the flow of thoughts. This form of
subjectivity does not survive scrutiny. If you really look for what
you are calling “I,” this feeling will disappear. In fact, it is
easier to experience consciousness without the feeling of self than it
is to banish the white square in the above image.

*From:* "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

kanisza triangle, perception, perceptual hypothesis, bottom-up,
top-down, brain, cortex, illusions

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23?
Actually the question is *phrased* *wrong*.

Ask any computer graphics artist how they would create this image.
They would start with one purple triangle. Why purple? We'll get to
that in a minute. Next at one point in the triangle they would
*intersect *a black circle. They would then copy the black circle and
paste two more each each point of the purple triangle. Then select
all three circles and put them on the bottom layer. This way the
purple triangle overlaps the black triangles to create the "Pac-Man".
Next select the purple triangle and copy it then *flip* the triangle.
Now we have *two* triangles forming a star. Select that new triangle
and change the *fill *color to white or background and the *stroke*
(outline) to black. Push that triangle to the bottom layer. Now we
have the purple triangle on top. Select it and change the *fill *color
to white (or background) and the *stroke *also to white.

Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How
many images would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way? 6. And a
much more difficult image to construct that way too.

So, I as a computer person who does both graphics programming and art
see *two *triangles. Perhaps the correct question would have been "how
many *complete* triangles do you see? The answer could then be
*none***(though I need to examine the graphic carefully as the top
triangle might not actually be the same color as the background as I
perceive an edge)*.

*Oh, why a purple triangle? This is an often unused color in pictures
that artists will use temporarily for transparent areas. If purple is
used then they can use another color that isn't used in the graphic.

I'll give the academics a D+ for e

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having some fun
with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar
illusion:

So when you look at an impressionistic painting, bawee, you don't see trees
and flowers and mountainsides? The mind is a wonderful thing. Creating
landscapes out of dabs of paint and faces out of suggestions of color and brush
stroke. Poor you, such a literalist.

S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can
see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually
the question is phrased wrong.

Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How many images
would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way? 6. And a much more difficult
image to construct that way too.

I'll give the academics a D+ for effort. :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide open to research in consciousness like 
TM does. Read the article. In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does 
science on 'introspective' woo-woo that way too! You guys must be very 
disappointed to have lost what you have seen as your champion against 
meditating from the public arena. 
 

 What are you jibbering about man? Honestly Buck, you turn up here every few 
weeks and tilt at windmills till the saliva dribbles down your chin yet you 
obviously aren't following the argument because I agree with Sam Harris and I 
doubt he'd agree with you.
 

 I really don't know where you get all this anger from just because people 
don't see the world the way you do. It's bizarre. Sam Harris is a 
neurophysiologist, he'll know all about heirarchical nesting theories. What 
he's saying here is that science isn't perhaps the best way of telling us about 
our inner experience, not that conventional explanations of our "selves" aren't 
justified.
 

 Read it again and get back to us.
 

 

 

  A pitiable thing here is that you guys quite evidently do not use your 
nervous system very effectively that scientific way Harris does whilst yous 
even got a human nervous system on this planet. 
  Take for instance a hypothesis based on observation: Make haste, make use of 
your time in meditation and then you'll know more. Harris is even urging you 
saying that effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so 
many ways. Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically is 
at: http://www.tm.org/ http://www.tm.org/ Your own science methodology in 
spirituality evidently seems must not be very good for some reason to 
experiment with. You quitters ought to get your meditations checked so you 
could be a credible part of a modern spiritual discussion.  Unless you are 
really satisfied being in the control group.  According to the research your 
spirituality might even do everyone some good if you would work on it. The 
experience of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an 
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris mentions in form 
like around the vasana of anger in your systems. Do some more science of your 
own experimenting. Meditating in the field effect of effective spiritual 
practice groups is found to be useful, may be look for that too to help you in 
your research.
 Have a really wonderful day today on planet earth,
 after meditating this morning I got to unload 300 bales of hay.
 300 more coming this afternoon before meditation,
 -Buck 
 

 “In “Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any faith-based 
assumptions about what exists outside of our own experience. And it arises from 
the same spirit of honest inquiry that motivates science itself.” 
 -Sam Harris
 

 turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 

 From: salyavin808 
 
 Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.
 

 No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all modern with its feelings 
etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from the ancient reptilian parts 
that gives us instincts and simple motor function responses, the mid brain or 
limbic system we share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires 
and learned responses like fight or flight.
 

 On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.
 

 You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by cutting the 
connecting nerves. People can still function but if you place a screen between 
someone's eyes so they can't see what's on the other side your left eye will 
see things but you won't know what they are even though your right hand can 
draw them! This means there must be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is 
that?

 

 I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is working 
out exactly what everything is doing and when. 

I've never understood those who go on and on about the "hard problem." It'

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?

2014-09-08 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On another interesting note from England's past:
 

 I doubt George Osborne would risk something like that, the Scots hate the 
Tories more than I do as it is. Thatcher ruined the industrial base of the 
country and successive governments have used the place as a testing ground for 
any new and controversial policies they want to try! So I don't blame them for 
not taking the current shower in Westminster seriously. I don't know what they 
are going to use for money though, have to go back to beaver pelts maybe.
 

 My only worry is the flag, how much is it going to cost to replace them all in 
time for our new princes birth? I sense a business opportunity.
 

 On the morning after the poll before, "Vote No and get something better" 
summed up George Osborne's message. It's a tried and trusted message which 
worked in the independence referendum in Quebec when a last minute poll lead 
for Yes was transformed into a narrow No. It is, though, a message with a 
difficult history in Scotland.
 

 Thirty five years ago it was precisely what Scots were told when they were 
voting in a referendum on a much more modest proposal - to create a Scottish 
Parliament with some devolved powers.
 

 A former prime minister, a Scot and, as it happens, a Tory, Sir Alec Douglas 
Home urged his countrymen to vote No and get "something better". The referendum 
rejected devolution and what they got soon afterwards was 18 years of Margaret 
Thatcher's government and no devolution at all (until, that is, Labour were 
re-elected in 1997).
 

 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29106901 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29106901
  
  
 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29106901
  
  
  
  
  
 Scotland - Vote No and get something better? 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29106901 George Osborne's message is a 
tried and trusted one, having been used in referendums in Quebec - and Scotland 
itself in 1979.


 
 View on www.bbc.com
 Preview by Yahoo
 
  

 

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:06 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?
 
 
   Ah, life under the Tories. It's all they ever wanted, a return to the good 
old days and the lower orders kept in our place. And their policies are sold as 
benefiting everyone but this is how it ends up. Wassup with us, that's what I 
want to know!

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 "Are we going to settle for a nastier and poorer Britain - a Downton 
Abbey-style society, in which the living standards of the vast majority are 
sacrificed to protect the high living of the well-to-do?
 

 We are piling yet more riches onto a privileged few. Economic growth is back 
but there's no sign of it in most workers' pay packets. In fact, the gap has 
got worse. Top chief executives now earn 175 times the wages of the average 
worker."
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503


  
  
 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503
  
  
  
  
  
 Britain 'becoming like Downton Abbey' 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503 The leader of Britain's trade 
union movement warns of a "Downton Abbey-style" society in which social 
mobility "has hit reverse".


 
 View on www.bbc.com http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503
 Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness 
accounts.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.

 Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is 
just a fool and knave.
 >

 You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that 
there'd be stories floating around.

 >
 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, 
and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and 
trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead 
horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you 
can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go 
figure.
 >

 And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

 >
 What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can 
be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that 
woo woo is just a magician's trick.
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :

 On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many 
others.

 >
 We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not 
mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't 
mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were 
pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic 
discussion group a long time ago.

 'Take Me For a Ride'
 Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
 by Mark E. Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993

 >
 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 >
 Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?"

 In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy 
assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both 
male and female. Go figure.

 "The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and 
around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s 
greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one 
or more boy assistants"

 Indian rope trick:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
 >

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

 I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I 
have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient 
for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing 
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment 
earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through 
the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such 
that I could see the desert landscape through him. 

 I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?

 I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and 
the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these 
experiences of mine could have been the result of suggestion. But suggestion or 
not, they really *were* my experiences. 

 I saw all this stuff. I saw it so often over the years I almost got bored with 
it. Seriously. I remember some gal asking me in an L.A. bar one Friday night, 
"Whatchadoin' this weekend." I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to tell 
her the truth: "Tomorrow I'm going to go out into the Anza-Borrego Desert and 
hike around all night with a couple of hundred guys and gals I know. We like to 
do this because the guy leading the hike has this tendency to walk around about 
a foot over the sand and turn invisible and make the stars move around and 
that's fun to watch. What are you doin'?" 

 I quite remember her response. I sat there watching her react for a couple of 
moments, the wheels of

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Look, Sam Harris leaves the door wide open to research in consciousness like TM 
does. Read the article. In fact in meditation even he, Sam Harris does science 
on 'introspective' woo-woo that way too! You guys must be very disappointed to 
have lost what you have seen as your champion against meditating from the 
public arena. A pitiable thing here is that you guys quite evidently do not use 
your nervous system very effectively that scientific way Harris does whilst 
yous even got a human nervous system on this planet. 
  Take for instance a hypothesis based on observation: Make haste, make use of 
your time in meditation and then you'll know more. Harris is even urging you 
saying that effective modern spirituality is very scientific practice in so 
many ways. Quite evidently an effective spiritual practice scientifically is 
at: http://www.tm.org/ http://www.tm.org/ Your own science methodology in 
spirituality evidently seems must not be very good for some reason to 
experiment with. You quitters ought to get your meditations checked so you 
could be a credible part of a modern spiritual discussion.  Unless you are 
really satisfied being in the control group.  According to the research your 
spirituality might even do everyone some good if you would work on it. The 
experience of an effective meditation might well help you with what seems an 
angry entrenched mood about your poor experience, like Harris mentions in form 
like around the vasana of anger in your systems. Do some more science of your 
own experimenting. Meditating in the field effect of effective spiritual 
practice groups is found to be useful, may be look for that too to help you in 
your research.
 Have a really wonderful day today on planet earth,
 after meditating this morning I got to unload 300 bales of hay.
 300 more coming this afternoon before meditation,
 -Buck 
 
 
 “In “Waking Up,” I argue that spirituality need not rest on any faith-based 
assumptions about what exists outside of our own experience. And it arises from 
the same spirit of honest inquiry that motivates science itself.” 
 -Sam Harris
 

 turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 

 From: salyavin808 
 
 Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.
 

 No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all modern with its feelings 
etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from the ancient reptilian parts 
that gives us instincts and simple motor function responses, the mid brain or 
limbic system we share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires 
and learned responses like fight or flight.
 

 On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.
 

 You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by cutting the 
connecting nerves. People can still function but if you place a screen between 
someone's eyes so they can't see what's on the other side your left eye will 
see things but you won't know what they are even though your right hand can 
draw them! This means there must be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is 
that?

 

 I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is working 
out exactly what everything is doing and when. 

I've never understood those who go on and on about the "hard problem." It's 
simply a non-issue to a pragmatic Buddhist. Who CARES about the "Why" of 
consciousness or "Where it comes from?" No one has ever known and no one ever 
will, and 'knowing' would do them no good even if they found what they thought 
was a suitable "Why" or "Where." 

The pragmatic spiritual approach is to leave all the figuring and the posturing 
about the "Why" of life to those who feel they have time to waste on such 
self-indulgent shit, and focus instead on the obvious -- that *something* we 
call consciousness exists, here and now, and that we have the ability to work 
with it. The only thing that seems to have any pragmatic value -- for us or for 
others -- is learning how to make the best use of whatever we consider 
consciousness to be. 

T

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

On another interesting note from England's past:


On the morning after the poll before, "Vote No 
and get something better" summed up George Osborne's message. It's a 
tried and trusted message which worked in the independence referendum in Quebec 
when a last minute poll lead for Yes was transformed into a 
narrow No. It is, though, a message with a difficult history in 
Scotland. 

Thirty five years ago it was precisely what Scots were told 
when they were voting in a referendum on a much more modest proposal - 
to create a Scottish Parliament with some devolved powers.

A former prime minister, a Scot and, as it happens, a Tory, 
Sir Alec Douglas Home urged his countrymen to vote No and get "something 
better". The referendum rejected devolution and what they got soon 
afterwards was 18 years of Margaret Thatcher's government and no 
devolution at all (until, that is, Labour were re-elected in 1997).

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29106901
  
 
Scotland - Vote No and get something better?
George Osborne's message is a tried and trusted one, having been used in 
referendums in Quebec - and Scotland itself in 1979.  
View on www.bbc.com Preview by Yahoo  
  



 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:06 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?
 


  
Ah, life under the Tories. It's all they ever wanted, a return to the good old 
days and the lower orders kept in our place. And their policies are sold as 
benefiting everyone but this is how it ends up. Wassup with us, that's what I 
want to know!



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




"Are we going to settle for a nastier and
poorer Britain - a Downton Abbey-style society, in which the living
standards of the vast majority are sacrificed to protect the high living
of the well-to-do?

We are piling yet more riches onto a privileged few.
Economic growth is back but there's no sign of it in most workers' pay
packets. In fact, the gap has got worse. Top chief executives now earn
175 times the wages of the average worker."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503


  
 
Britain 'becoming like Downton Abbey'
The leader of Britain's trade union movement warns of a "Downton Abbey-style" 
society in which social
mobility "has hit reverse".  
View on www.bbc.com Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?

2014-09-08 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Ah, life under the Tories. It's all they ever wanted, a return to the good old 
days and the lower orders kept in our place. And their policies are sold as 
benefiting everyone but this is how it ends up. Wassup with us, that's what I 
want to know!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 "Are we going to settle for a nastier and poorer Britain - a Downton 
Abbey-style society, in which the living standards of the vast majority are 
sacrificed to protect the high living of the well-to-do?
 

 We are piling yet more riches onto a privileged few. Economic growth is back 
but there's no sign of it in most workers' pay packets. In fact, the gap has 
got worse. Top chief executives now earn 175 times the wages of the average 
worker."
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503


  
  
 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503
  
  
  
  
  
 Britain 'becoming like Downton Abbey' 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503 The leader of Britain's trade 
union movement warns of a "Downton Abbey-style" society in which social 
mobility "has hit reverse".


 
 View on www.bbc.com
 Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Who Wouldn't Want to Be a Scorpion?



"Are we going to settle for a nastier and 
poorer Britain - a Downton Abbey-style society, in which the living 
standards of the vast majority are sacrificed to protect the high living of the 
well-to-do? 

We are piling yet more riches onto a privileged few. 
Economic growth is back but there's no sign of it in most workers' pay 
packets. In fact, the gap has got worse. Top chief executives now earn 
175 times the wages of the average worker."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29103503


  
 
Britain 'becoming like Downton Abbey'
The leader of Britain's trade union movement warns of a "Downton Abbey-style" 
society in which social mobility "has hit reverse".  
View on www.bbc.com Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye 
witness accounts.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it 
can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been 
established that woo woo is just a magician's trick.

Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo 
is just a fool and knave.

>

You would think something like that would have created major buzz, 
such that there'd be stories floating around.

>
Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And 
anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, 
Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been 
discussed and trashed on /alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on 
/alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry 
is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own 
perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure.

>

And maybe those stories are out there.  I've just never looked for them.

>
What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it 
can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been 
established that woo woo is just a magician's trick.

>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@...  
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that
of many others.

>
We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation
events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two
books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention
it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally
by /The Amazing Randi/ on the /alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a
long time ago.

/'Take Me For a Ride'/
Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
by Mark E. Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993

>
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :
>

Have you heard about the /"Indian Rope Trick?"/

In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a
couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have
required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure.

"The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been
performed in and around India during the 19th century.
Sometimes described as "the world’s greatest illusion", it
reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or
more boy assistants"

Indian rope trick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
, 
 wrote :

Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my
artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a
color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely?

I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must
understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that
it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have
had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing
triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of
me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain,
and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like
seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such
that I could see the desert landscape through him.

I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many
years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people
who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was
it real or was it "future Memorex," created via suggestion?

I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about
suggestion and the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of
it all, OF COURSE these experiences of mine could have been
the result of suggestion. But suggestion or not, they really
*were* my experiences.

I saw all this stuff. I saw it so often over the years I
almost got bored with it. Seriously. I remember some gal
asking me in an L.A. bar one Friday night, "Whatchadoin'
this weekend." I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to
tell her the truth: "Tomorrow I'm going to go out into the
Anza-Borrego Desert and hike around all night with a couple
of hundred guys and gals I know. We like to do this because
the guy leading the hike has this tendency to walk around
about a foot over the sand and turn invisible and make the
stars move around and that's fun to watch. What are you

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

From: salyavin808  wrote :


It's funny...I had exactly the same response, wondering how many people who 
have *seriously* invested in claiming that they have *the* solution for who the 
Ripper was will find some way to deny this. Science, after all, is no match for 
True Believerism.  :-)


Many a true word spoken in jest. The 75 pages of books on Amazon may become 
obsolete but I doubt that will be the end of it. Could be a whole new industry 
of conspiracy theories about how he didn't work alone etc... Maybe he worked 
with Benji Creme's female ripper. 

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the science is 
flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to celebrate the solving of 
this century-old mystery by indulging in my own bit of True Believerism and 
re-watching "From Hell." That's my favorite of all the Jack The Ripper movies 
ever made, hands-down, and I'd much rather believe that version of the Jack 
tale to be correct.

It's not so much who the creators of this film thought Jack was that makes 
their version interesting, though. It's the detective who is trying to find 
Jack who is interesting. In all seriousness, I think that Inspector Frederick 
Abberline is one of the greatest characters in the entire history of crime 
fiction. I mean, a police detective who solves crimes by smoking opium and 
drinking absinthe and then having visions of the killers is pretty damned cool. 
Having that character played by Johnny Depp is just brilliant. If you like 
cinema and somehow missed this movie, you really shouldn't have.


  Johnny Depp - From Hell trailer

  
 
Johnny Depp - From Hell trailer  
View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo  
  
 


 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!



 


Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from 
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :



The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most notorious criminal
 
  The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most not... 
A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddowes, one of the Ripper’s victims, 
has been analysed and found to contain DNA from her as well as the killer.  
View on www.dailymail.co.ukPreview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Wassup? [1 Attachment]

2014-09-08 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]


On 9/8/2014 7:01 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
>
We went to the office early today to get to work done on projects, now 
that school is back in session. We  ran the  Google Analytics on our 
hosted server. So far, everything looks good. There were several hits 
from NE and UK tomorrow, your time. Yesterday I was able to do some more 
research for /emtybill/ on the Yoga-Vedanta discussion and we visited 
another power place in central Texas.


Today we are working on digitizing images and sound files and video 
recording segments for the online help-desk at our school - a community 
college nearby.




/Command Central Administrative Console/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The permutations are endless as will be the refutations that the science is
flawed. See also The Turin Shroud, Creationism etc...

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html

View on www.dailymail.co.uk
Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Wassup?

2014-09-08 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

The thing is Barry, is that you believe in life after death, reincarnation, so
what does that say about a "self"

So what if the square is an illusion. That is supposed to negate a belief in
"self".

You don't believe that, so why bring it up in that context.

Maybe one day you can tell us more, what it's like not to have an ego. (-:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having some fun
with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar
illusion:

S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can
see the same effect in this perceptual illusion:

From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

How many triangles do you see in this image?

The correct answer is "None."

http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/

None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually
the question is phrased wrong.

Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How many images
would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way? 6. And a much more difficult
image to construct that way too.

I'll give the academics a D+ for effort. :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

For example, how will Benjamin Creme react to this news, since a link off one 
of his websites says that according to the "Masters of Light" Jack the Ripper 
was a woman?

http://unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot.nl/2009/05/jack-ripper.html


I think Nabby owes us some follow-up on this one. Will Benny Creme deny the 
validity of DNA evidence if it contradicts his (imaginary) Masters? Only time 
will tell. In the meanwhile, here are some other non-scientific theories:





 From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"  
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!
 


  
It's funny...I had exactly the same response, wondering how many people who 
have *seriously* invested in claiming that they have *the* solution for who the 
Ripper was will find some way to deny this. Science, after all, is no match for 
True Believerism.  :-)




 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!
 


  


Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from 
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :



The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most notorious criminal
 
  The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most not... 
A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddowes, one of the Ripper’s victims, 
has been analysed and found to contain DNA from her as well as the killer.  
View on www.dailymail.co.ukPreview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

It's funny...I had exactly the same response, wondering how many people who 
have *seriously* invested in claiming that they have *the* solution for who the 
Ripper was will find some way to deny this. Science, after all, is no match for 
True Believerism.  :-)

 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jack the Ripper unmasked!

Very interesting. I have often wondered, can't wait to see the response from 
the great many Ripperologists. If it's true then that's a major industry dead!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most notorious criminal

  The Ripper unmasked: DNA identify Britain's most not... 
A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddowes, one of the Ripper’s victims, 
has been analysed and found to contain DNA from her as well as the killer.  
View on www.dailymail.co.ukPreview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

From: salyavin808 



Good article, I get an idea of where he's coming from. Nothing to do with 
mystic woo woo at all. In fact, he's a man after my own heart.

Mine, too. He manages to bring concepts that most people get all hazy and Woo 
Woo about into crystal clarity.

Of course consciousness isn't reducible. loads of things aren't, life itself 
for instance. Reason is they depend on advanced structures, a rock isn't 
conscious but it's made of the same stuff as my brain is, therefore it must be 
the organisation inside my head that gives rise to awareness. This is quite 
obviously born out by experiment.

No there isn't a central place in the brain where the sense of self resides, 
evolution teaches that isn't a likely prediction because it would have to be a 
very ancient biological structure and yet it acts all modern with its feelings 
etc. Seems obvious that all parts of the brain from the ancient reptilian parts 
that gives us instincts and simple motor function responses, the mid brain or 
limbic system we share with most other mammals that gives us emotions, desires 
and learned responses like fight or flight.

On top of that is the neocortex that gives us higher mammals reasoning and 
episodic memory, all these things are interconnected and we experience and use 
all of them with the top, most recently evolved bit, wondering where all the 
inner stuff comes from.

You can also tell there's no inner "self" when the brain gets damaged, in 
severe epilepsy the two brains halves are sometimes separated by cutting the 
connecting nerves. People can still function but if you place a screen between 
someone's eyes so they can't see what's on the other side your left eye will 
see things but you won't know what they are even though your right hand can 
draw them! This means there must be two "selfs" one in each side! How weird is 
that?


I think the hard problem is really the easy bit, the tricky task is working out 
exactly what everything is doing and when. 

I've never understood those who go on and on about the "hard problem." It's 
simply a non-issue to a pragmatic Buddhist. Who CARES about the "Why" of 
consciousness or "Where it comes from?" No one has ever known and no one ever 
will, and 'knowing' would do them no good even if they found what they thought 
was a suitable "Why" or "Where." 

The pragmatic spiritual approach is to leave all the figuring and the posturing 
about the "Why" of life to those who feel they have time to waste on such 
self-indulgent shit, and focus instead on the obvious -- that *something* we 
call consciousness exists, here and now, and that we have the ability to work 
with it. The only thing that seems to have any pragmatic value -- for us or for 
others -- is learning how to make the best use of whatever we consider 
consciousness to be. 

Then again, I fully admit to being underwhelmed by the silly shit that 
"philosophers" spend their lives pondering. I think the world would have been a 
better place if they'd all been forced to go out and actually DO something of 
benefit to other people instead of sitting on their asses feeling 
self-important about a self that never existed.  :-)

The inner minds eye has been there since the dawn of complex animal life even 
though it must have improved via evolution, it's the way we know to respond to 
threats, simple stimulus/response but so useful it got improved rapidly. This 
understanding of conscious correlates is proceeding well but the brain is the 
most complex structure in the known universe. So it's a bit early to say that 
consciousness is impossible or must be some sort of "other" thing from the rest 
of the stuff we know the universe is made of. And it's quite a relief that Sam 
Harris isn't a mystic he just has a different sense of the importance of inner 
experience than most scientists. I still see no evidence for quantum 
consciousness. 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Sam Harris's Vanishing Self?

 
 Sam Harris's Vanishing Self
  
 
Sam Harris's Vanishing Self
The well-known New Atheist makes a case for the value of “spirituality,” which 
he bases on his experiences in meditation.  
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 Sam Harris's Vanishing Self 
The well-known New Atheist makes a case for the value of “spirituality,” which 
he bases on his experiences in meditation.  
View on opinionator.blogs.nyti...  Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Pity you felt the need to "go all ego" about this, rather than having some fun 
with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar 
illusion:

S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can 
see the same effect in this perceptual illusion: 
It certainly looks 
like there is a white square in the center of this figure, but when we 
study the image, it becomes clear that there are only four partial 
circles. The square has been imposed by our visual system, whose edge 
detectors have been fooled. Can we know that the black shapes 
are more real than the white one? Yes, because the square doesn’t 
survive our efforts to locate it — its edges literally disappear. A 
little investigation and we see that its form has been merely implied.

What could we say to a skeptic who insisted that the white square is just as 
real as the 
three-quarter circles and that its disappearance is nothing more than, 
as you say, “a relatively rare — and deliberately cultivated — 
experience”? All we could do is urge him to look more closely.

The same is true about the conventional sense of self — the feeling of 
being a subject inside your head, a locus of consciousness behind your 
eyes, a thinker in addition to the flow of thoughts. This form of 
subjectivity does not survive scrutiny. If you really look for what you 
are calling “I,” this feeling will disappear. In fact, it is easier to 
experience consciousness without the feeling of self than it is to 
banish the white square in the above image.

 From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception

On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

>How many triangles do you see in this image?
>
>
>
>
>The correct answer is "None." 
>
>
>http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/
>
>
>
>
>
>
None?  Really?  Pac-Men?  What was the age of these academists? 
23?  Actually the question is phrased wrong.

Ask any computer graphics artist how they would create this image. 
They would start with one purple triangle.  Why purple?  We'll get
to that in a minute.  Next at one point in the triangle they would 
intersect a black circle.  They would then copy the black circle and paste two 
more each each point of the purple triangle.  Then select all three circles and 
put them on the bottom layer.  This way the purple triangle overlaps the black 
triangles to create the "Pac-Man".  Next select the purple triangle and copy it 
then flip the triangle.  Now we have two triangles forming a star.  Select that 
new triangle and change the fill color to white or background and the stroke 
(outline) to black.  Push that triangle to the bottom layer.  Now we have the 
purple triangle on top. Select it and change the fill color to white (or 
background) and the stroke also to white.  

Now you have the graphic.  How many images did that take?  5.  How
many images would it take if you di it the "fragmented" way?  6. 
And a much more difficult image to construct that way too.

So, I as a computer person who does both graphics programming and
art see two triangles.  Perhaps the correct question would have been "how 
many complete triangles do you see?  The answer could then be none(though I 
need to examine the graphic carefully as the top triangle might not actually be 
the same color as the background as I perceive an edge).

Oh, why a purple triangle?  This is an often unused color in pictures that 
artists will use temporarily for transparent areas.  If purple is used then 
they can use another color that isn't used in the graphic.

I'll give the academics a D+ for effort. :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why you can't trust your own perception

2014-09-08 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Just finishing up this train of thought for Sal, since yesterday was the first 
time I've thought about this Rama stuff in quite a while. Doing so was 
fun...for about ten minutes...and then I got back to the business of being in 
the now.  :-)

Comment at the bottom...


From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 




  
From: salyavin808 



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. 
Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the 
spectrum, or more likely?

You'll have to try it and see. Make sure you don't have a burnt sienna filing 
cabinet and you might get away with it. 

I
have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have 
had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me 
NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped 
dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been 
the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like 
seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such that I could see the 
desert landscape through him. 


I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did 
hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and 
spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via 
suggestion?


Depends if there were mushrooms in the pizza you had before hand ;-)

I've said it before, I just wish I was there for any of it. I never met a guru 
that made me want to get involved like that and am way too sceptical now to 
take anyone seriously. But maybe if I met the right person I'd get swept along. 
I have no way of knowing.

My best "can it possibly have happened" experience was when I'd got hold of a 
lot of LSD but couldn't find a gang to share it with as my raver mates were all 
busy jumping around in a field somewhere, so I took the lot myself as an 
experiment. Not only was it the wildest night of my life but I managed to 
travel back in time. I was hallucinating so much that it hurt and had to close 
my eyes and went on an inner trip that took me back through my childhood (very 
weird seeing teddy bears for the first time as a baby) and then conception - I 
assume, loads of spinning, exploding diamonds in space, haven't checked this 
with my folks of course.

Then I went further back through previous lives it was like flying over a 
landscape and through peoples minds and lives, and the places they lived and 
then the scenery changed and the only things I saw were trees and lakes, a real 
sense of distance getting faster and faster and then it stopped and I was on 
the side of a tree at night.

It had been raining but what had startled me was the light, it was a dull 
orange glow and shouldn't have been there. I had no way of thinking as I was 
obviously some sort of nocturnal shrew or something, I scampered round the tree 
when a dinosaur came into view real close. It was an Iguanadon I'm certain, 
which put me in the early cretaceous around 80-90 million years ago. And I've 
got something to tell people about what colour they were but probably will keep 
it to myself. If only it was possible to communicate what it was all like being 
that sort of instinctual mind motivated by hunger and fear, it's in my top 5 
most amazing experiences to this day.

But it gets weirder, when I got round the tree I saw the source of the light 
and it was a couple of highly odd looking robot aliens. Honestly. I couldn't 
have made them up if I tried. Not consciously. At that point I opened my eyes 
and decided I needed a walk, which is another couple of stories. knowing my 
interests in UFOs and paleontology I am obviously sure that my mind made it all 
up on the spot but boy it was an amazing accomplishment, at least as real as 
sitting here now. Religions have started for less though and I can see how 
people get started on mistaking what's inside for what's outside if it falls so 
far out of normal experience. And how it justifies beliefs in things like 
reincarnation. Unless Graham Hancock is right for the first time in his life.

So it isn't really like your experience at all LOL. But I've typed it so it 
stays. 

So it does. If you think about it, your and my experiences are probably rarer 
on this planet than experiences typed (related by, told by) people who went on 
to form religions, or who tried to. Our tales are along the lines of, "This is 
what we experienced...we don't know WTF it means, we're just telling the 
stories...do with them what you want."

In contrast, many people who went on to talk about their supposed spiritual 
experiences were more narcissistic and had more self-importance going for them. 
They couldn't just tell their stories and say, "That's it...make what you want 
of it...," they had to make up 'meaning' and 'mythology' and above all 
self-

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Sal


 Cool. It's a wonderful world!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interview with Sam Harris at the New York Times opinionator: there is no self